Can you be gay & homophobic at the same time?

[Ashley.]

The reason I say this is because there's this guy on Facebook who is gay, but he's such a puzzle because he's so aggressive towards other gays and uses homophobic language to describe them. He treats them like crap, pretty much, and I just don't really understand it.

Is it just a defence mechanism or something? Or maybe he's just overly passionate about how gay people *should* be more like him. It's really annoying me though.

[JoshBB]

Yes you can. Internalised homophobia is a known thing especially within closeted gay people

[Dominic]

Of course you can.

[Black Dagger]

Tbh I think I have tendencies of it.

[Ashley.]

Yes you can. Internalised homophobia is a known thing especially within closeted gay people

Yeah I've noticed that. It's so weird though! Like there was this guy who I went to school with who absolutely hated my other openly gay friend, and was always homophobic towards him behind his back and felt very uncomfortable sitting near him. Then he turned up at my graduation four years later with his boyfriend!

I'm so going to research this. I'm a psychology freak. :laugh:

[Rob!]

Yeah, a lot of gays really annoy me.

[Iceman]

Yeah sure look at Emin.....

But really yeah you can I wouldn't say I'm homophobic but overly camp people annoy me. It's a reason why I avoid the gay scene.

[Cal.]

I annoy myself when I see myself on video

[Glenn.]

I can't stand feminine gays. Is that homophobic?

[armand.kay]

some gays are self hating and have to hate on anything they consider to be "too gay"... also you have the typical belongs on grindr with both "discreet" and "straight acting" perched in the bio :yuk:
not sure if i would call it homophobic tho...

[Ninastar]

Terms like 'Homophobia' and 'Racism' and 'Sexism' etc etc are waaaaay too overused these days. It makes genuine cases go unnoticed, because someone made one tiny little comment that isn't the most PC.

I say that you're only homophobic, racist, sexist, Xist, if you constantly preach your dislike of someone, based on that one reason.

Anyone can be homophobic. Anyone can be racist. Anyone can be sexist. There's HUGE difference between that, and the one comment though. There are so many people out there who will literally jump at the chance to call someone Xist, because it's not something anyone wants to be. I hate that. You can call someone whatever you like, but don't label them with something like Xist, just because you've heard ONE opinion off of them.

When people throw insults around like 'You're so Xist!!!' it sometimes does more damage than good. It's an insult to people who have suffered true Xism.

Obviously if someone has an opinion like 'PEOPLE WHO ARE X SHOULD DIE' etc etc, then yeah, call them whatever. But when someone says something like 'I hate when gay people do X' then plz... just don't call them homophobic

(hope that made sense. I'm so hungover)

[Iceman]

-was confused what xist meant until the last line-

-rereads-

[kirklancaster]

Terms like 'Homophobia' and 'Racism' and 'Sexism' etc etc are waaaaay too overused these days. It makes genuine cases go unnoticed, because someone made one tiny little comment that isn't the most PC.

I say that you're only homophobic, racist, sexist, Xist, if you constantly preach your dislike of someone, based on that one reason.

Anyone can be homophobic. Anyone can be racist. Anyone can be sexist. There's HUGE difference between that, and the one comment though. There are so many people out there who will literally jump at the chance to call someone Xist, because it's not something anyone wants to be. I hate that. You can call someone whatever you like, but don't label them with something like Xist, just because you've heard ONE opinion off of them.

When people throw insults around like 'You're so Xist!!!' it sometimes does more damage than good. It's an insult to people who have suffered true Xism.

Obviously if someone has an opinion like 'PEOPLE WHO ARE X SHOULD DIE' etc etc, then yeah, call them whatever. But when someone says something like 'I hate when gay people do X' then plz... just don't call them homophobic

(hope that made sense. I'm so hungover)

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Superb post - hungover or not. :laugh:

[Firewire]

I don't go to pride because I would feel uncomfortable because that's not who I am. I'm not ashamed I just don't feel like I associate with that scene. That might change though.

[Iceman]

Yeah I went to pride for a night. Not my thing at all.

[Ninastar]

-was confused what xist meant until the last line-

-rereads-

lmao Its just easier than typing out racist/sexist/ageist or whatever every time. by X I mean anything... so any of those examples above, if you get me

[Daniel.]

I used to drag gays to others behind their back before I came out saying stuff like 'its wrong', i didnt mean it obviously, but it was because i wasnt here for being one but im now comfortable and dont care who knows

[Liam-]

Only the ones who hate themselves can be homophobic, other gays who accept themselves and love themselves for who they are can't be homophobic imo, judgemental and biased yes, but not homophobic, I'm not a big fan of extremely camp gays, does that make me homophobic? No.

[armand.kay]

I live for the camp gays <3

[LemonJam]

idgaf if you're butch or camp, masc or femme, whatever. If you're a decent human being then it shouldn't matter.

[Jords]

From my experience, observations and knowledge from media...


I dont think its homophobia - its a differnt kind of ignorance/narrow-mindedness. I think within the gay community there is a presence of fear with associated stigmatization. Gay men who identify more as masculine (e.g. deep voice, toned bodies, enjoy non-camp activities), "straight-acting", as opposed to identifying more as feminine (e.g. squeaky voice, overly groomed, enjoy camp activities) fear being associated as the latter when they "come out".

Similarly, feminine gays resent other feminine gays
a. for being the same sexuality but not sexually appealing
b. by relating with them and self-resenting
c. through fear that society accepts gay couples where both partners are feminine/feminine least as opposed to masculine/feminine and moreso masculine/masculine couples

[lostalex]

can a woman be sexist?
can a black be racist?
can a fat person be disgusted by other fat people?
can an american be anti-american?
can a politician hate the government?

yes.

[Mitchell]

Russell Tovey vibes.

In all seriousness, you can, however I'm lucky not to be so stupid to be homophobic :p

[Shaun]

I think white gay males can probably be the most prejudiced group around. The sheer volume of people who're so openly discriminative under the name of kinks or types is a little bit alarming, and the whole "no fems" thing you see so often just irks me, even if I can understand why it'd play into gender identities we carry in our heads.

A lot of it is internalised homophobia I think - a kind of bargaining that gays who identify themselves as "masculine" will use on themselves as if to say "Yeah I'm gay... but look, guys, I'm not that gay" *points at picture of Louie Spence* And it's hard to see that and not think it as homophobic. And sexist, really, as though effeminacy is beneath them or weak. Jords put it well. I just think the community (I'm not saying LGBT community because I can't speak for the L or T, as much as the G likes to) compartmentalises itself too much and plays off against each other as if they're commodities in a store rather than a group. But then, wanting all gay people to share the same beliefs is obviously naive.

I'm also still conflicted about using the word fag colloquially. That's definitely a context issue rather than an out-and-out social one though.

[lostalex]

I think white gay males can probably be the most prejudiced group around. The sheer volume of people who're so openly discriminative under the name of kinks or types is a little bit alarming, and the whole "no fems" thing you see so often just irks me, even if I can understand why it'd play into gender identities we carry in our heads.

A lot of it is internalised homophobia I think - a kind of bargaining that gays who identify themselves as "masculine" will use on themselves as if to say "Yeah I'm gay... but look, guys, I'm not that gay" *points at picture of Louie Spence* And it's hard to see that and not think it as homophobic. And sexist, really, as though effeminacy is beneath them or weak. Jords put it well. I just think the community (I'm not saying LGBT community because I can't speak for the L or T, as much as the G likes to) compartmentalises itself too much and plays off against each other as if they're commodities in a store rather than a group. But then, wanting all gay people to share the same beliefs is obviously naive.

I'm also still conflicted about using the word fag colloquially. That's definitely a context issue rather than an out-and-out social one though.

What a load of bull.

The only people i see typing "no fems" are Fem guys!! they are the ones that only want masculine guys and bitch about other feminine guys not being attractive.

And do you honestly think that straight men don't prefer feminine women over masculine women? so why is it okay for straight men to want feminine women, but it's not okay for gay men to want masculine men?

Gay men preferring masculine men is not homophobic in any sense of the word. because being feminine has NOTHING to do with being gay. so how is that homophobic?

And you bringing race into it, i'm not even gonna bother with that nonsense. You make no points at all that make any sense. i can't even tell you the number of times i;ve heard straight blacks say they only want to marry another black person, or a straight jewish person say they would only marry another jew. but for a white gay man to want to marry another white man, he's racist? kiss my hairy white ass.

[Ashley.]

I think white gay males can probably be the most prejudiced group around. The sheer volume of people who're so openly discriminative under the name of kinks or types is a little bit alarming, and the whole "no fems" thing you see so often just irks me, even if I can understand why it'd play into gender identities we carry in our heads.

A lot of it is internalised homophobia I think - a kind of bargaining that gays who identify themselves as "masculine" will use on themselves as if to say "Yeah I'm gay... but look, guys, I'm not that gay" *points at picture of Louie Spence* And it's hard to see that and not think it as homophobic. And sexist, really, as though effeminacy is beneath them or weak. Jords put it well. I just think the community (I'm not saying LGBT community because I can't speak for the L or T, as much as the G likes to) compartmentalises itself too much and plays off against each other as if they're commodities in a store rather than a group. But then, wanting all gay people to share the same beliefs is obviously naive.

I'm also still conflicted about using the word fag colloquially. That's definitely a context issue rather than an out-and-out social one though.

Very well put, Shaun!

Well, the guy that I'm talking about posted a picture of a load of people at gay pride in OTT costumes with the caption "I hope all us fags and queers don't end up like this", along with some other stuff that he's posted. It's just quite uncomfortable to read, really!

[Jords]

What a load of bull.

The only people i see typing "no fems" are Fem guys!! they are the ones that only want masculine guys and bitch about other feminine guys not being attractive.

And do you honestly think that straight men don't prefer feminine women over masculine women? so why is it okay for straight men to want feminine women, but it's not okay for gay men to want masculine men?

Gay men preferring masculine men is not homophobic in any sense of the word. because being feminine has NOTHING to do with being gay. so how is that homophobic?

And you bringing race into it, i'm not even gonna bother with that nonsense. You make no points at all that make any sense. i can't even tell you the number of times i;ve heard straight blacks say they only want to marry another black person, or a straight jewish person say they would only marry another jew. but for a white gay man to want to marry another white man, he's racist? kiss my hairy white ass.

Redundant post after that over-generalised and very untrue statement. Shall I show you my Grindr? Sorry but there is a strong presence of "not after fem" which can be purely preference but Ive also come to associate it with the fear of greater rejection.

Im commenting purely for the social psychology side of things.

My own preference is the better mix of both masc and fem characteristics and traits.

[lostalex]

Redundant post after that over-generalised and very untrue statement. Shall I show you my Grindr? Sorry but there is a strong presence of "not after fem" which can be purely preference but Ive also come to associate it with the fear of greater rejection.

Im commenting purely for the social psychology side of things.

My own preference is the better mix of both masc and fem characteristics and traits.

and have you met those guys that say "no fems" trust me, when you meet them, they are fem themselves, even if they have a pic that makes themselves look like masculine jocks. The minute they open their mouthes they sound like richard simmons.

I've met them. any guy that has "no fems" in their profile, i have learned that they are the most fem guys on the planet, no matter how many muscles they have.

[Smithy]

Tbh I think I have tendencies of it.

You give me tendencies of it

[lostalex]

Very well put, Shaun!

Well, the guy that I'm talking about posted a picture of a load of people at gay pride in OTT costumes with the caption "I hope all us fags and queers don't end up like this", along with some other stuff that he's posted. It's just quite uncomfortable to read, really!

NO, it's not well put at all, it's totally ignorant, and it's clear that Shaun has not actually met many guys from grindr. and he's clearly not met many of the guys that claim that they are Masc4masc... it's a lie.

It's only fem guys that hate on other fem guys.

[lostalex]

and again, i need to ask the question, what does not being attracted to feminine guys have to do with being homophobic? Nothing. gay men are not feminine in general, so how is it homophobic to not be attracted to feminine guys?

Is it HETEROPHOBIC for a straight man to not be attracted to masculine women?

please answer that question.

[Smithy]

it's totally ignorant, and it's clear that Shaun has not actually met many guys from grindr.


Omg this is going in my sig

[Smithy]

Heterophobia isn't a thing alex

[Mystic Mock]

Of course they can be, just look at Craig Coates in BB6 to see that.

I also controversially believe that you can be racist towards your own skin colour as well.

[lostalex]

Heterophobia isn't a thing alex

Then neither is homophobia by gay men.

Stop having double standards and put some actual THOUGHT into what you say.

If it's okay for Hetero men to prefer feminine women, then it's fine for gay men to prefer masculine men.

being gay has nothing to do with feminity. only homophobes think that gay men are feminine.

are there some masculine straight women? yes, and most straight men aren't attracted to them

are there some feminine gay men? yes, and most gay men aren't attracted to them.

so what?

[Jords]

and have you met those guys that say "no fems" trust me, when you meet them, they are fem themselves, even if they have a pic that makes themselves look like masculine jocks. The minute they open their mouthes they sound like richard simmons.

I've met them. any guy that has "no fems" in their profile, i have learned that they are the most fem guys on the planet, no matter how many muscles they have.

"Ive met them" - every single one right? Course Ive met guys. Youre focusing on one 'fem' / 'masc' trait each time. And in this instance - only very physical traits. I was looking at it as a collective.

I am quite aware that there is a push in the gay community to "get the perfect body" - and if youre talking to one of them good luck engaging in a decent conversation :laugh:

[Jords]

Heterophobia isn't a thing alex

I kinda think it is.

I have a gay mate who can get irritable quick with 'straight men' for "having it easy" and even 'straight women' for their ability to pull 'straight men'.

I remember once he got annoyed with my female friend because a bar man chatted her up, and he fancied him - but the bar man was straight so he had no chance anyway!!!

...hes a good guy but can be a dick about things, evidently :laugh:

[Kizzy]

I think to many idiots are mistaken for 'ists'... :laugh:

[Smithy]

I kinda think it is.

I have a gay mate who can get irritable quick with 'straight men' for "having it easy" and even 'straight women' for their ability to pull 'straight men'.

I remember once he got annoyed with my female friend because a bar man chatted her up, and he fancied him - but the bar man was straight so he had no chance anyway!!!

...hes a good guy but can be a dick about things, evidently :laugh:

That's just jealousy, of course gay people have it harder, it's not heterophoia :joker:

[JoshBB]

Heterophobia isn't a thing alex

.

Just gonna leave this quote here:

"To discriminate, you need power, privilege, and prejudice." - the only sexuality to have all three of those things would be straight people. So heterophobia isn't real

[Jords]

That's just jealousy, of course gay people have it harder, it's not heterophoia :joker:

jealousy can foster phobia through anxiety

[Smithy]

jealousy can foster phobia through anxiety

Well fair enough, but I'm guessing your friend doesn't hate straight people, he just hates that they have life a lot easier than he does, that's not heterophobia :shrug:

[Jords]

.

Just gonna leave this quote here:

"To discriminate, you need power, privilege, and prejudice." - the only sexuality to have all three of those things would be straight people. So heterophobia isn't real

No. Discrimination is treatment in favour or against an outgroup i.e. a subpopulation of people that you dont belong to. If homophobia exists - so does heterophobia - in some cases probably with similar reasoning (e.g. not in agreement with their lifestyle - marriage etc.).

[Jords]

Well fair enough, but I'm guessing your friend doesn't hate straight people, he just hates that they have life a lot easier than he does, that's not heterophobia :shrug:

I dont think thats a proper justification.

A sexist man - in most cases - doesnt hate women but hates their ability to be independent and in control.

[Ninastar]

No. Discrimination is treatment in favour or against an outgroup i.e. a subpopulation of people that you dont belong to. If homophobia exists - so does heterophobia - in some cases probably with similar reasoning (e.g. not in agreement with their lifestyle - marriage etc.).

Thank you. Well said. I hate this notion that only poor, unprivileged people can be badly treated.

[Kizzy]

I wouldn't say heterophobia exists, it's a reaction to the ignorance that is born out of homophobia and based on anger not fear.

[Jords]

I would just like to highlight that phobias are often irrational. Yes there can be rational arguments applied to why a gay person may not be fond of straight people - similarly a straight person may not be fond of gay people and not necessarily be homophobic. This leaves room for heterophobia.


To put an example in to context...

A gay person who feels threatened by straight women who can date straight men and displays 'hate' for straight women could be seen as heterophobic. Firstly the gay person should not feel threatened by straight women in this way because they do not have a chance with straight men anyway, plus there are other gay men to date, but also this is a very exaggerated and insecure response.

Its to do with anxiety and feeling fearful - this could be directed at straight women themselves or to the situation in which a gay men, straight women and straight men are all together and there is an opportunity for dates to arise (e.g. clubs). In the latter they dont necessarily 'hate' straight women but they show heterophobic tendencies when this sort of situation arises. Irritational.

This context also works with homophobia...

A straight man who feels threatened by gay men who aims to date men may 'display' hate for gay men and be homophobic. Again, the straight man should not feel threatened because the gay man might not try it on with him - or if he does can easily reject the offer - but once again its a very exaggerated and insecure response resulting from anxiety and feeling fearful. Furthermore they dont necessarily 'hate' gay men but they show homophobic tendencies again when this sort of situation arises. Irrational.


Obviously this context is just based on 'dating' but it extends into wider social structures. For example homophobia may be based on the disagreement and fear of what it means to have to 2 men living together as a 'family unit' - whilst heterophobia may be based on the disagreement and fear of society's insistence that 1 man and 1 woman should live together and have children as a 'family unit' and ideally be married etc. etc.


If one exists so does the other.

[Smithy]

literally heterophobia does not exist, if you google it the only stuff that comes up is urban dictionary and things mocking it

Heterophobia is the non-existent supposed "fear and mistrust" of heterosexual people. It is a neologism that is used against the LGBT community as a snarl word designed to delegitimize the gay rights movement, its campaign for equal treatment, and aim to end to anti-gay bigotry. The term implies that, rather than reacting to anti-gay rhetoric, gay rights advocates are in fact speaking out against heterosexuality and heterosexuals in a demeaning or bigoted manner. This phraseology attempts to equate the fight against bigotry with bigotry itself.[1] Despite the rare specific instance (see below), on the institutional level it is fairly obvious that "heterophobia" does not exist

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Heterophobia

:clap2:

[Niall]

You can be easily homophobic and gay. All you need to do is go on Grindr and talk to anyone identifying themselves as straight acting. Ask them how they feel about 'fem' gay guys. Watch how they bemoan them for not being masculine enough.

It's a ridiculous paradox, but like Shaun said the amount of discrimination based on kinks/fetishes or downright prejudice are evidence enough of it. And it's often white gay men that are the worst at it. Internalised homophobia is a big, BIG problem.

[Kizzy]

I would just like to highlight that phobias are often irrational. Yes there can be rational arguments applied to why a gay person may not be fond of straight people - similarly a straight person may not be fond of gay people and not necessarily be homophobic. This leaves room for heterophobia.


To put an example in to context...

A gay person who feels threatened by straight women who can date straight men and displays 'hate' for straight women could be seen as heterophobic. Firstly the gay person should not feel threatened by straight women in this way because they do not have a chance with straight men anyway, plus there are other gay men to date, but also this is a very exaggerated and insecure response.

Its to do with anxiety and feeling fearful - this could be directed at straight women themselves or to the situation in which a gay men, straight women and straight men are all together and there is an opportunity for dates to arise (e.g. clubs). In the latter they dont necessarily 'hate' straight women but they show heterophobic tendencies when this sort of situation arises. Irritational.

This context also works with homophobia...

A straight man who feels threatened by gay men who aims to date men may 'display' hate for gay men and be homophobic. Again, the straight man should not feel threatened because the gay man might not try it on with him - or if he does can easily reject the offer - but once again its a very exaggerated and insecure response resulting from anxiety and feeling fearful. Furthermore they dont necessarily 'hate' gay men but they show homophobic tendencies again when this sort of situation arises. Irrational.


Obviously this context is just based on 'dating' but it extends into wider social structures. For example homophobia may be based on the disagreement and fear of what it means to have to 2 men living together as a 'family unit' - whilst heterophobia may be based on the disagreement and fear of society's insistence that 1 man and 1 woman should live together and have children as a 'family unit' and ideally be married etc. etc.


If one exists so does the other.

I wouldn't say homophobia was a 'phobia' in the true sense of the word either.
Just a made up word to describe fear and ignorance.

[Jords]

I think its to do with personal opinion and up for debate - a couple of links on the internet is not concrete. Im happy for you to disagree that 'heterophobia' exists but Im more interested in your reasons not articles and blogs. Remember "homosexuality" once didnt exist...

Also just to add homophobia is more common because its in favour of social norms whilst heterophobia is the exact opposite - making it even more irrational.

[Jords]

I wouldn't say homophobia was a 'phobia' in the true sense of the word either.
Just a made up word to describe fear and ignorance.

:suspect:

fear that is exaggerated and often irrational (because of ignorance)

[Niall]

'Heterophobia' :laugh3:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i don't know

source: idk

[Smithy]

I think its to do with personal opinion and up for debate - a couple of links on the internet is not concrete. Im happy for you to disagree that 'heterophobia' exists but Im more interested in your reasons not articles and blogs. Remember "homosexuality" once didnt exist...

Also just to add homophobia is more common because its in favour of social norms whilst heterophobia is the exact opposite - making it even more irrational.

I generally don't get into serious debates on here because I'm nowhere near articulate enough to get my point across properly in writing :joker:

You don't have straight people living in fear of people finding out they're straight
You don't have straight people being bullied or attacked for who they are
You don't have straight people being murdered for being who they are

heterophobia doesn't exist, if a gay man is jealous of a woman, thats misogyny not heterophobia

[Jords]

for a bunch of gays yall narrow-minded on this subject nobody on this forum likes to sit down and go, hang on thats kind of a reasonable point do they

Its not common nor a big problem like homophobia but imo it exists.

I love da straight men and women :love:

[Jords]

I generally don't get into serious debates on here because I'm nowhere near articulate enough to get my point across properly in writing :joker:

You don't have straight people living in fear of people finding out they're straight
You don't have straight people being bullied or attacked for who they are
You don't have straight people being murdered for being who they are

heterophobia doesn't exist, if a gay man is jealous of a woman, thats misogyny not heterophobia

BREAKING NEWS: Gay Murderer Kills 9 Men and Women for "Being Straight"

Does that really need to happen for heterophobia to be confirmed?

People generally dont murder others. A lot of homophobics do not murder or bully gay people... they make remarks, pull facial expressions and simply do not make friends with these people.

[Liam-]

I do think there are certain situations where heterophobia can exist, I get where people are coming from when they say it doesn't because straight people don't have to generally face being outcasted for their sexuality, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't people out there who hate straight people, it's extremely uncommon but I do think it happens.

Let's put it this way, if a club didn't allow gay people in there, that would be classed as homophobia, so if a gay club refused to let straight people in (I know a load of straight people who go to gay clubs with friends) what would that be classed as? revenge? no it would be classed and a group of people being ostracised because of their sexuality, which in essence is the same thing as homophobia, so I do think hetereophobia has the potential to exist, it's just highly unlikely.

[Ashley.]

I think sexism towards men should exist. Heterophobia? Not so much. :laugh:

[Liam-]

I think sexism towards men should exist. Heterophobia? Not so much. :laugh:

:omgno:

Don't let the truth see that

[Jords]

I do think there are certain situations where heterophobia can exist, I get where people are coming from when they say it doesn't because straight people don't have to generally face being outcasted for their sexuality, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't people out there who hate straight people, it's extremely uncommon but I do think it happens.

Let's put it this way, if a club didn't allow gay people in there, that would be classed as homophobia, so if a gay club refused to let straight people in (I know a load of straight people who go to gay clubs with friends) what would that be classed as? revenge? no it would be classed and a group of people being ostracised because of their sexuality, which is the in essence the same thing as homophobia, so I do think hetereophobia has the potential to exist, it's just highly unlikely.

Exactly its very uncommon for numerous reasons - being gay automatically puts you in a minority group, youre going against social norms that have been ingrained into us, you make friends with assumingly 'straight' boys and girls from an early age...

Its more the case of showing heterophobic tendencies rather than being a full-blown heterophobe.

Im interested in Jack_'s opinion actually.

[Niall]

for a bunch of gays yall narrow-minded on this subject nobody on this forum likes to sit down and go, hang on thats kind of a reasonable point do they

Its not common nor a big problem like homophobia but imo it exists.

I love da straight men and women :love:

No no no, you misunderstand. It doesn't exist. It doesn't, cannot, has not, and will not exist.

Tell me when you've been mocked and had slurs shouted at you in the street for holding hands with someone? Tell me when people have rolled their eyes at you and your partner just for being together on a train? Tell me when you've had to sit in a room where everyone around you has spoken of their disgust and dissaproval of straight people?

Tell me when the government has had to vote to legalise you being who you naturally are? Tell me when you've had to explain to someone that no, one of you is not the 'woman' in the relationship? Tell me when most if not all of the TV shows and movies you watch have no representation of people like you and even when you are represented it's a negative two dimensional stereotype?

Everyday is straight pride for you. The entire world, it's systems and institutions are geared toward preserving your sexual orientation. Tell me one country where you can't walk around holding a girl's hand and not get mocked/arrested/killed? You can't because there aren't any. I can give you 79.

There's a reason why 'Heterophobia' is underlined in red when you type it - it does not exist. Someone may be prejudiced towards heterosexual people but no, they cannot be 'heterophobic' because that implies so much more than irrational distaste. It references systems of oppression designed to push you down, and those systems are simply not mirrored for straight people. There just aren't.

[Firewire]

NOT a Niall essay :love:

[Niall]

NOT a Niall essay :love:

We all know it's needed.

http://media.giphy.com/media/roxf4KzJeKy7S/giphy.gif

[Jords]

sasspot :joker:

[Niamh.]

Good post Niall but tbf PDAs between men and wome are punishable in some strict Muslim countries :p

[Kizzy]

Good post Niall but tbf PDAs between men and wome are punishable in some strict Muslim countries :p

That's not an example of heterophobia though.

[Niall]

Good post Niall but tbf PDAs between men and wome are punishable in some strict Muslim countries :p

Like Kizzy said, still not 'heterophobia'. :smug:

[Ninastar]

I do think there are certain situations where heterophobia can exist, I get where people are coming from when they say it doesn't because straight people don't have to generally face being outcasted for their sexuality, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't people out there who hate straight people, it's extremely uncommon but I do think it happens.

Let's put it this way, if a club didn't allow gay people in there, that would be classed as homophobia, so if a gay club refused to let straight people in (I know a load of straight people who go to gay clubs with friends) what would that be classed as? revenge? no it would be classed and a group of people being ostracised because of their sexuality, which in essence is the same thing as homophobia, so I do think hetereophobia has the potential to exist, it's just highly unlikely.

Beautifully well said. I find it upsetting that people think it's not as big a deal when a white person/straight person/man etc etc receives hatred for who they are. Which is something they cannot help...

[Niamh.]

Like Kizzy said, still not 'heterophobia'. :smug:

I didn't say it was, I was just pointing that one bit out lol. I agree with you though :love:

[Jords]

No no no, you misunderstand. It doesn't exist. It doesn't, cannot, has not, and will not exist.

Tell me when you've been mocked and had slurs shouted at you in the street for holding hands with someone? Tell me when people have rolled their eyes at you and your partner just for being together on a train? Tell me when you've had to sit in a room where everyone around you has spoken of their disgust and dissaproval of straight people?

Tell me when the government has had to vote to legalise you being who you naturally are? Tell me when you've had to explain to someone that no, one of you is not the 'woman' in the relationship? Tell me when most if not all of the TV shows and movies you watch have no representation of people like you and even when you are represented it's a negative two dimensional stereotype?

Everyday is straight pride for you. The entire world, it's systems and institutions are geared toward preserving your sexual orientation. Tell me one country where you can't walk around holding a girl's hand and not get mocked/arrested/killed? You can't because there aren't any. I can give you 79.

There's a reason why 'Heterophobia' is underlined in red when you type it - it does not exist. Someone may be prejudiced towards heterosexual people but no, they cannot be 'heterophobic' because that implies so much more than irrational distaste. It references systems of oppression designed to push you down, and those systems are simply not mirrored for straight people. There just aren't.

Its a great post for sure but your focus is just on the very extreme of homophobia at a society level and not on an individual level... plus the use of a lot of rhetorical questions.

1 definition of homophobia plucked off the internet:

unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality

Lay-term.


Edit: heterophobia cannot exist at a society level because being heterosexual is the social norm, but I think it has its place at an individual level amongst homosexuals - be it a rare occasion

[Liam-]

Beautifully well said. I find it upsetting that people think it's not as big a deal when a white person/straight person/man etc etc receives hatred for who they are. Which is something they cannot help...

It seems to me that gay people have taken the history surrounding our sexuality and have taken it to mean that we deserve a higher podium to stand on because gay people in the past were treated awfully and some still are today, basically 'gays have had it worse so I can say and do whatever I want about straight people, it's not offensive because gays were treated worse' I don't buy into that mantra, nor do I think anyone should, hate is hate, discrimination against someone's sexuality -whether the sexuality is the most common one in the world or not - is discrimination.

'That guy can't come in this shop he's a ******' = discrimination
'That guy can't come in this shop he's a fleshy cave dweller' = discrimination

History is history, let it be history and accept that everyone can be hated on for anything these days and rather than try to disprove it because of some historical vendetta that is essentially blocking people's logical views of the world, accept it, not just gays are hated in this world, gays happen to be some of the most judgmental people in the entire world, we're not perfect.

Power to the straights.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am going to stick with homophobia as I cant cope with being gay as well

[Niall]

Its a great post for sure but your focus is just on the very extreme of homophobia at a society level and not on an individual level... plus the use of a lot of rhetorical questions.

1 definition of homophobia plucked off the internet:



Lay-term.

But that's simply not what it is. Dictionary definitions do not define the true nature of homophobia. Like I previously stated, the true natrue of homophobia is a deeply ingrained and systematic style of oppression directed at all people who aren't heterosexual. That, my friend, is the definition of homophobia. What you've got there is something that references only part of a deeply ingrained societal issue. No such issues exist for heterosexual individuals.

And if you do believe that 'heterophobia' exists, then you believe that people of colour can be racist to white individuals? Because the logic around heterophobia uses precisely the same logic as that.

[Niall]

I didn't say it was, I was just pointing that one bit out lol. I agree with you though :love:

i know, I was just messing. :laugh: :love:

[Jords]

But that's simply not what it is. Dictionary definitions do not define the true nature of homophobia. Like I previously stated, the true natrue of homophobia is a deeply ingrained and systematic style of oppression directed at all people who aren't heterosexual. That, my friend, is the definition of homophobia. What you've got there is something that references only part of a deeply ingrained societal issue. No such issues exist for heterosexual individuals.

And if you do believe that 'heterophobia' exists, then you believe that people of colour can be racist to white individuals? Because the logic around heterophobia uses precisely the same logic as that.

I absolutely do at an individual level.

My flatmate in first year when he first referred to me as a "white boy" I asked him what he meant by that and he explained it was just his terminology and I accepted it and went on to use it myself in banter - although I never dared say the n-word.

If we had ever argued and he called me a "white boy %#!#!' I would have taken it as a racist comment yes.

[Liam-]

But that's simply not what it is. Dictionary definitions do not define the true nature of homophobia. Like I previously stated, the true natrue of homophobia is a deeply ingrained and systematic style of oppression directed at all people who aren't heterosexual. That, my friend, is the definition of homophobia. What you've got there is something that references only part of a deeply ingrained societal issue. No such issues exist for heterosexual individuals.

And if you do believe that 'heterophobia' exists, then you believe that people of colour can be racist to white individuals? Because the logic around heterophobia uses precisely the same logic as that.

Absolutely, but not just white people.

[Firewire]

I absolutely do at an individual level.

My flatmate in first year when he first referred to me as a "white boy" I asked him what he meant by that and he explained it was just his terminology and I accepted it and went on to use it myself in banter - although I never dared say the n-word.

If we had ever argued and he called me a "white boy %#!#!' I would have taken it as a racist comment yes.

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

[Ninastar]

It seems to me that gay people have taken the history surrounding our sexuality and have taken it to mean that we deserve a higher podium to stand on because gay people in the past were treated awfully and some still are today, basically 'gays have had it worse so I can say and do whatever I want about straight people, it's not offensive because gays were treated worse' I don't buy into that mantra, nor do I think anyone should, hate is hate, discrimination against someone's sexuality -whether the sexuality is the most common one in the world or not - is discrimination.

'That guy can't come in this shop he's a ******' = discrimination
'That guy can't come in this shop he's a fleshy cave dweller' = discrimination

History is history, let it be history and accept that everyone can be hated on for anything these days and rather than try to disprove it because of some historical vendetta that is essentially blocking people's logical views of the world, accept it, not just gays are hated in this world, gays happen to be some of the most judgmental people in the entire world, we're not perfect.

Power to the straights.

****ing. PREACH. my god if we were both straight i'd totally marry you. its so nice to have another gay who shares this opinion with me. I feel like this whole putting the most underprivileged people on a podium thing does so much more damage than good. People preach and whine about wanting equality, so why is it different when people who are 'less-privileged' get hatred for being who they are? Now Im not the best with words, so I do apologize if this doesn't make sense, but surely, if people want equality so much, isnt the whole point that we treat everyone equally? So why is it not as big of a deal, or as serious, when someone who is straight, or white or even male receives hatred. Should we care less because 'LOL white people?' or 'LOL heterophobia'

At the end of the day, if someone is made to feel **** for who they are as a person, isn't that all that matters? why does a persons history have to come into with what they are being made to feel at that moment

[Jords]

Beautifully well said. I find it upsetting that people think it's not as big a deal when a white person/straight person/man etc etc receives hatred for who they are. Which is something they cannot help...

Im with you here. It seems that if youre in the minority group you are excluded from the label. It kind of reminds me of domesitc abuse - awareness, help and support is largely for when the female is abused compared to the male - but it exists.

[Ninastar]

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

You can't risk saying something like that though, because so many people could take offence. Even though it's true, like you said, it wouldnt be okay for Jords to say it back and there is another double standard.

[Jords]

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

this is a deliberate awkward comment

[Ninastar]

Im with you here. It seems that if youre in the minority group you are excluded from the label. It kind of reminds me of domesitc abuse - awareness, help and support is largely for when the female is abused compared to the male - but it exists.

Exactly. I'm glad you also agree. I cant tell you how relieving it is to see that Liam and I aren't the only ones with this opinion, lol.

[Firewire]

You can't risk saying something like that though, because so many people could take offence. Even though it's true, like you said, it wouldnt be okay for Jords to say it back and there is another double standard.

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

[Ninastar]

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

The double standard is that it's okay Jords' friend to call him whatever he wants, but not okay for Jords' to do the same. What has Jords' ever done to demean black people?

[Firewire]

The double standard is that it's okay Jords' friend to call him whatever he wants, but not okay for Jords' to do the same. What has Jords' ever done to demean black people?

It's not okay to be called names at all. But being called "white boy" is not offensive. He can make it offensive if he wants to, that's up to him.

[Ninastar]

It's not okay to be called names at all. But being called "white boy" is not offensive. He can make it offensive if he wants to, that's up to him.

Yeah I agree with the beginning part completely. And the point isnt that the name isn't offensive, but more so the fact that it's not okay for a white person to say something a black person could say. Its double standards.

[Jords]

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

You would not address it? Why? Because you think its purely descriptive? Or out of fear?

You could argue that being addressed as "White Boy" demeans you as they only recognise you for the colour of your skin.

[Jords]

Anyway I wasnt offended nor thought it was aimed to be offensive - but this is not the point - anyway we talk about getting white boy wasted now :joker:

[Firewire]

You would not address it? Why? Because you think its purely descriptive? Or out of fear?

You could argue that being addressed as "White Boy" demeans you as they only recognise you for the colour of your skin.

I've never been faced with it so I don't know how I would react to it.

If I was in a room full of black people then I would be the "white boy" because that's what I am. I'm not defensive of my skin colour. If they called me "gay boy" it would be different.

[Jords]

I've never been faced with it so I don't know how I would react to it.

If I was in a room full of black people then I would be the "white boy" because that's what I am. I'm not defensive of my skin colour. If they called me "gay boy" it would be different.

but you are gay?

[Liam-]

but you are gay?

:joker:

[Jords]

...

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

... :tongue:

[Liam-]

****ing. PREACH. my god if we were both straight i'd totally marry you. its so nice to have another gay who shares this opinion with me. I feel like this whole putting the most underprivileged people on a podium thing does so much more damage than good. People preach and whine about wanting equality, so why is it different when people who are 'less-privileged' get hatred for being who they are? Now Im not the best with words, so I do apologize if this doesn't make sense, but surely, if people want equality so much, isnt the whole point that we treat everyone equally? So why is it not as big of a deal, or as serious, when someone who is straight, or white or even male receives hatred. Should we care less because 'LOL white people?' or 'LOL heterophobia'

At the end of the day, if someone is made to feel **** for who they are as a person, isn't that all that matters? why does a persons history have to come into with what they are being made to feel at that moment

:flutter: :clap1:

I'm sick of people using the 'minority card' to get away with doing and saying whatever they want about the majority, it makes a mockery of wanting true equality.

[Firewire]

Not the point and I can smell my dinner being made

[Jords]

kind of is though

https://38.media.tumblr.com/95a526ac6d593994da2b3119e3b1e86e/tumblr_nu9ltvHhb71tfkb3fo1_500.gif

[Niamh.]

Anyway I wasnt offended nor thought it was aimed to be offensive - but this is not the point - anyway we talk about getting white boy wasted now :joker:

see you've pretty much answered the question there, you weren't offended......where as that guy probably would have been if it were the other way round becuase referring to him as black boy has certain connotations that "white boy" does not.

[Firewire]

I was called it in school as an attempt to shame me before I even knew my own sexuality. People would laugh about it and that's why I would have a problem with it even though it's who I am. I've never had an issue with being white.

[Jords]

see you've pretty much answered the question there, you weren't offended......where as that guy probably would have been if it were the other way round becuase referring to him as black boy has certain connotations that "white boy" does not.

Are you seriously telling me that if you argued with a black woman, lets say you took the last bag of frozen peas at Morrisons, and she called you a "****ing selfish White bitch" you would not consider that as a racist remark? :/

[Firewire]

Are you seriously telling me that if you argued with a black woman, lets say you took the last bag of frozen peas at Morrisons, and she called you a "****ing selfish White bitch" you would not consider that as a racist remark? :/

I'm sure Niamh would just be happy that she has the last bag of peas.

[Smithy]

I'm sure Niamh would just be happy that she has the last bag of peas.

:laugh3:

[Jords]

I was trying to fix up a casual scenario in which race got brought up into it lol

Edit: Also I set up that line knew somebody was gonna post it :tongue:

[Niamh.]

Are you seriously telling me that if you argued with a black woman, lets say you took the last bag of frozen peas at Morrisons, and she called you a "****ing selfish White bitch" you would not consider that as a racist remark? :/

It would be a racial remark but I would be annoyed at the whole thing, being called selfish more so than white because white people have never been oppressed by black people, it doesn't carry the same weight as an insult. Also, in that instance it was being used in an aggressive way so I would be offended whether white was in there or not. The example you gave the guy was not using it in an argumentative way and you didn't take as such but you know that you referring to him as "black boy" would have been dodgy enough becaus eof the connotations that has

Also, Firewire, I don't give a **** about those peas, if it was the last bag of spuds though that bitch would be going down :smug:

[Ninastar]

:flutter: :clap1:

I'm sick of people using the 'minority card' to get away with doing and saying whatever they want about the majority, it makes a mockery of wanting true equality.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

I don't think I've ever read anything so true. You hit the nail on the head there, lol.

I'm sure Niamh would just be happy that she has the last bag of peas.

lmfao!!! post of the thread

[Ninastar]

I love that we can all be mature enough to debate without the pathetic name calling <3

[Firewire]

go away bitch

[Liam-]

Shut it dyke

[Liam-]

oh oop

[Ninastar]

go away bitch

http://i.imgur.com/cQorxXp.gif

[Ninastar]

homophobic, sexist twats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jords]

It would be a racial remark but I would be annoyed at the whole thing, being called selfish more so than white because white people have never been oppressed by black people, it doesn't carry the same weight as an insult. Also, in that instance it was being used in an aggressive way so I would be offended whether white was in there or not. The example you gave the guy was not using it in an argumentative way and you didn't take as such but you know that you referring to him as "black boy" would have been dodgy enough becaus eof the connotations that has

Also, Firewire, I don't give a **** about those peas, if it was the last bag of spuds though that bitch would be going down :smug:

Thats all Im looking for. I dont care to what degree of offense you take each comment - its still offensive! :tongue: I completely understand connotations, history etc. etc. but they dont play the entire role of 'racism' - in fact I think they play a much smaller role between face-to-face interactions. We dont walk the streets thinking "they used to be slaves" or "they used to be masters" etc. - when a black and white person argue and race gets brought up its often purely the use of skin colour and any stereotypical associated traits/characteristics (e.g. promiscuity, snobbery etc.)

[Ammi]

..it was selfish Claudia that took the last of the peas..:bored:..

[Jords]

:joker: :joker:

[Niamh.]

Thats all Im looking for. I dont care to what degree of offense you take each comment - its still offensive! :tongue: I completely understand connotations, history etc. etc. but they dont play the entire role of 'racism' - in fact I think they play a much smaller role between face-to-face interactions. We dont walk the streets thinking "they used to be slaves" or "they used to be masters" etc. - when a black and white person argue and race gets brought up its often purely the use of skin colour and any stereotypical associated personality traits (e.g. promiscuity, snobbery etc.)

I disagree completely Jords. I think I told this story before but from my own personal experiances - I used to live in London years agp, the area I lived in was mainly Asian and one night I was walking home from the tube station and a group of Asian guys started shouting stuff at me as I walked by, "stupid ****ing white bitch" was one of the things they shouted at me. I felt intimadated because there was a group of guys shouting at me late at night but tbh the racial remark I found amusing. On the other hand during my time in London I had many experiances with people using the fact that I was Irish as an insult against me and that would get me so angry because of the history there and I knew that those who were saying things like that to me thought that because I was Irish they were superior to me. That's the difference imo

[Ashley.]

Welp, I was expecting a yes or no answer, not a 5-page debate :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Jords]

I disagree completely Jords. I think I told this story before but from my own personal experiances - I used to live in London years agp, the area I lived in was mainly Asian and one night I was walking home from the tube station and a group of Asian guys started shouting stuff at me as I walked by, "stupid ****ing white bitch" was one of the things they shouted at me. I felt intimadated because there was a group of guys shouting at me late at night but tbh the racial remark I found amusing. On the other hand during my time in London I had many experiances with people using the fact that I was Irish as an insult against me and that would get me so angry because of the history there and I knew that those who were saying things like that to me thought that because I was Irish they were superior to me. That's the difference imo

imo both are cases where racism arised the latter situations seem a lot more explicit and personal thus more offensive!

PS sorry that happened Nim :hug:

[Tom4784]

Heterophobia? lol. It doesn't exist.

The term 'heterophobia' makes me think of those white people who whine about Black History month because they want a White History Month. It's just self entitlement.

EDIT: Or straight people that want a Straight Pride parade, eurgh.

[Ross.]

I'm sure Niamh would just be happy that she has the last bag of peas.

:joker:

Jonathan you're an icon

[armand.kay]

Heterophobia? lol. It doesn't exist.

The term 'heterophobia' makes me think of those white people who whine about Black History month because they want a White History Month. It's just self entitlement.

EDIT: Or straight people that want a Straight Pride parade, eurgh.

this lmao some of these it works both ways posts are laughable really.. :laugh:

[Shaun]

Those saying heterophobia doesn't exist clearly haven't been on tumblr lol. There's enough crazy on there to keep dictionary writers in business for centuries.

[Firewire]

:joker:

Jonathan you're an icon

http://uploadir.com/u/f2afmjis

[Black Dagger]

Those saying heterophobia doesn't exist clearly haven't been on tumblr lol. There's enough crazy on there to keep dictionary writers in business for centuries.

.

[armand.kay]

Those saying heterophobia doesn't exist clearly haven't been on tumblr lol. There's enough crazy on there to keep dictionary writers in business for centuries.

Most of the stuff on tumblr is a joke tho. I doubt they're any people on there who genuinely hate straight people and feel like they should be oppressed... Also when tumbr isn't making straight white boy jokes they're lusting over straight white boys and idolising straight women....

[armand.kay]

Not sure if you were joking tho shaun :suspect:

[EspeonBB]

Heterophobia? lol. It doesn't exist.

The term 'heterophobia' makes me think of those white people who whine about Black History month because they want a White History Month. It's just self entitlement.

EDIT: Or straight people that want a Straight Pride parade, eurgh.

Yeah this is how I feel on this whole 'heterophobia' debate :shrug:

[Cal.]

There is no such thing is heterophobia and the people on Tumblr trying desperately to make it a thing whilst ignoring the fact that they're only alive due to heterosexuality (MAJORITY OF THE TIME) desperately need mental help.

[JoshBB]

There is no such thing is heterophobia and the people on Tumblr trying desperately to make it a thing whilst ignoring the fact that they're only alive due to heterosexuality (MAJORITY OF THE TIME) desperately need mental help.

I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to say that the mainstream tumblr doesn't think that heterophobia exists.. only the odd few.

[Ashley.]

I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to say that the mainstream tumblr doesn't think that heterophobia exists.. only the odd few.

Isn't the majority of Tumblr the LGBT community anyway?

[JoshBB]

Isn't the majority of Tumblr the LGBT community anyway?

Pretty much.