Merkel on immigration? Hero or villain?

[the truth]

she has enforced the laws on all the dozens of EU countries , that we all must have open borders

this is part of the EU 587 page constitution

now she lets in 100s of thousands

hero?

but other EU nations cannot afford to let in 1000s let alone 100s of thousands as they are tiny countries, poor countries, bankrupt countries with high unemployment

Germany and Austria unemployment has more than halved in 10 years...the other nations rates have nearly all doubled

so how can it be 1 rule fits all? how can we have the same rules for 85 million super rich Germany with 4% unemployment and Greece a few million people a small little nation and bankrupt?

shouldn't each nation have its own immigration policy?

Germany HAd to have mas immigration because their birth rate is falling and their population is down 2 million in 10 years..the uks population is up 3.7 million in 10 years ....that's a 5.7 million difference....vast difference means we need different policies

but merkel controls german AND all the eu nations at the same time
why is this allowed, why is this not questioned

maybe you think im wrong pls tell me how

maybe she is the hero for letting in 100s of thousands

but how does one tell the difference between refugees and terrorir=sts, illegal economic immigrants when there are 100s of thousands charging at nations like invading armies?

is she responsible in a huge way for this worsening disaster or is she the hero of the piece trying to save these people?

[kirklancaster]

She AND the EU has done NOTHING but damage the UK.

[Cherie]

The open borders dictate is ridiculous and unsustainable

[joeysteele]

More a hero for me,I would far rather someone of her calibre be PM of the UK than the very poor example we currently have.
Germany seems very well served by her and I agree with her refugees stance.

[Crimson Dynamo]

she made a catastrophic error and funnily enough is saying nowt now

played to the hands of all smugglers


crazy

[arista]

she made a catastrophic error and funnily enough is saying nowt now

played to the hands of all smugglers


crazy



Yes Pathetic.

[Cherie]

she made a catastrophic error and funnily enough is saying nowt now

played to the hands of all smugglers


crazy

Not just the smugglers, these taxis and buses that are ferrying these people to crossings are now charging extortionate rates and all the other businesses raking it in, Why are Brussels not stepping in to coordinate a united response, they are very good at dictating the shape of fruit we should be eating but are completely impotent on this

[smudgie]

Coming across as clueless.
Open the borders, we want you all, welcome, blah blah blah, then panc stricken because they can't handle the amount of flow.

[Tom4784]

It's a good idea and it is our duty to help as much as we can but she's mishandled the whole situation and has basically thrown petrol onto the flames.

[Northern Monkey]

As far as her policy for Germany i think she has as said above poured petrol onto the flames.However imo if that's how she wants to handle her country's affairs then that's up to her and anyone who disagrees to vote her out.
Just as it should be up to all EU countries how they handle their immigration policy.
Nobody should be pushing their agendas on other EU countries.

[Cherie]

As far as her policy for Germany i think she has as said above poured petrol onto the flames.However imo if that's how she wants to handle her country's affairs then that's up to her and anyone who disagrees to vote her out.
Just as it should be up to all EU countries how they handle their immigration policy.
Nobody should be pushing their agendas on other EU countries.

Countries can't have it every way, take the good bits of being part of the Union and then stand alone when it all goes belly up. All the countries should have followed the UK stance to take asylum seekers directly from the camps. Countries could then have put a realistic number on how many they could take. What is happening on the Hungarian border is inhumane and mostly down to German policy.

[kirklancaster]

Countries can't have it every way, take the good bits of being part of the Union and then stand alone when it all goes belly up. All the countries should have followed the UK stance to take asylum seekers directly from the camps. Countries could then have put a realistic number on how many they could take. What is happening on the Hungarian border is inhumane and mostly down to German policy.

Good post Cherie.

[Northern Monkey]

Countries can't have it every way, take the good bits of being part of the Union and then stand alone when it all goes belly up. All the countries should have followed the UK stance to take asylum seekers directly from the camps. Countries could then have put a realistic number on how many they could take. What is happening on the Hungarian border is inhumane and mostly down to German policy.

Yes.As you can probably tell i'm not really in favour of the EU or of the UK being a part of it.
But i agree with what you say about taking the refugees from the camps directly.

[Cherie]

Yes.As you can probably tell i'm not really in favour of the EU or of the UK being a part of it.

I had no idea :laugh: jk

[Cherie]

Yes.As you can probably tell i'm not really in favour of the EU or of the UK being a part of it.
But i agree with what you say about taking the refugees from the camps directly.

I wonder how many terrorists have literally walked into Europe

[Northern Monkey]

I wonder how many terrorists have literally walked into EuropeI would say possibly a percentage.Even 1 is too many.

[kirklancaster]

I would say possibly a percentage.Even 1 is too many.

I agree Paul, but it's probably a hell of a lot more than that seeing as how the head of IS boasted of how they were smuggling 500,000 of IS Jihadist killers into Western countries hidden among im migrants and refugees.

[Northern Monkey]

I agree Paul, but it's probably a hell of a lot more than that seeing as how the head of IS boasted of how they were smuggling 500,000 of IS Jihadist killers into Western countries hidden among im migrants and refugees.Yeah.We have no clue.That's what is so scary.It only takes 1 to cause mass destruction and death but it could be hundreds or even thousands.

[DemolitionRed]

Oh come on!... most of the radicals are leaving the UK not coming into it. If ISIS wanted terrorists in the UK it would be using the home grown ones and there seem to be plenty of them.
Instead of believing everything you read and every image you see online, try reverse imaging that picture. I think you will be surprised.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/kleinfeld-refugee-memes-debunking-846?utm_source=vicetwitteruk

That link is about people getting sucked into mass hysteria through false images and headlines. Anyone can do reverse imaging if they use google. Its what investigative journalists use all the time when they are looking for truth.

Don't believe everything you hear or read because a large part of this country is made up of fiction.

[Livia]

ISIS said they would use the refugee crisis to get their fighters in to Europe. I have no doubt that's what is happening, only the numbers are hazy.

I fail to see why it's up to Merkel to dictate what happens in other Europe countries. Germany tried to become the rulers of Europe in the 30s and 40s, now they've succeeded without a shot being fired.

[kirklancaster]

Oh come on!... most of the radicals are leaving the UK not coming into it. If ISIS wanted terrorists in the UK it would be using the home grown ones and there seem to be plenty of them.
Instead of believing everything you read and every image you see online, try reverse imaging that picture. I think you will be surprised.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/kleinfeld-refugee-memes-debunking-846?utm_source=vicetwitteruk

That link is about people getting sucked into mass hysteria through false images and headlines. Anyone can do reverse imaging if they use google. Its what investigative journalists use all the time when they are looking for truth.
smuggling in
Don't believe everything you hear or read because a large part of this country is made up of fiction.

Sorry Red- But I use my own direct experiences, careful balanced research from as many sources as possible, and good old logic. Such a combination has rarely let me down in many years.

For instance, I believe in those old reliables; Means, Motive, Opportunity, and seeing as how the head of IS has already warned us all in a boast that he was smuggling in 500,000 Jihadist killers into the West, secreted among all the immigrants/refugees, and seeing as how this chaotic wave of immigrant/refugees is giving him the means, then my logic compels me to believe (in addition to everything else that I have read and watched) that SOME of his Jihadists are already among us.

This certainly does not preclude home-grown covert Jihadists from committing atrocities when they are called upon or feel self-compelled to do so, because they have done a pretty good job up to now.

[kirklancaster]

ISIS said they would use the refugee crisis to get their fighters in to Europe. I have no doubt that's what is happening, only the numbers are hazy.

I fail to see why it's up to Merkel to dictate what happens in other Europe countries. Germany tried to become the rulers of Europe in the 30s and 40s, now they've succeeded without a shot being fired.

So true Liv, but don't forget that their means of achieving this - The EU - WAS the direct result of a plan to conquer Europe by an ECONOMIC strategy, formulated by high ranking Nazis at a little covert 'tete a tete' which Hitler was unaware of during the last weeks of the war.

They did realise, after all, that they'd TWICE failed to conquer Europe by military force.

[joeysteele]

I am prepared to look at these refugees more sympathetically.

They are fleeing likely certain death or endless turmoil in their own lands,there is no evidence whatsoever any are 'real' terrorists.

They have already been branded in the past,wastes of space and conscription dodgers, now to further ridicule them and attempt to turn opinion against them, they,or some of them, are likely terrorists too now.

Is this another showing of the so called failing caring of some in the UK,shocking that, in my opinion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am prepared to look at these refugees more sympathetically.

They are fleeing likely certain death or endless turmoil in their own lands,there is no evidence whatsoever any are 'real' terrorists.

They have already been branded in the past,wastes of space and conscription dodgers, now to further ridicule them and attempt to turn opinion against them, they,or some of them, are likely terrorists too now.

The caring UK falls short again,shocking that, in my opinion.

evidence?

[bots]

All I will say is that it is sometimes dangerous to use logic to try and predict/evaluate a situation. Just because someone says they are using the current crisis to flood the west with terrorists, doesn't mean that they are. That could easily be a smoke screen that is hiding true intentions.

For example, IS need a vulnerable population both to pick on and to spread the climate of fear. That is what feeds them, and strengthens them. Those fleeing (legitimately) are no longer there to terrorise, so it is in IS's interests to have as few people fleeing as possible. They want closed borders!. One thing is sure, Merkel is not stupid, and she may in fact be playing a blinder

[joeysteele]

evidence?

I am likely far from being in any way wise in even answering your response knowing the abuse likely to be fired back.

However,If they were called up for military service in war torn Syria,then either the opposition forces or IS will likely kill them.

If they remain in Syria and are opposed to IS activities then I would think anyone would easily assume they would lkely be killed, as many have been elswhere in Iraq for instance, for opposing IS.

I would have thought that was basic commonsense that in any of those scenarios the likely result would be in the end probably their own deaths.
Hence them fleeing such a desperate state of affairs.

[lostalex]

I fear for the world is the Muslims get a strong foothold in Europe as they already have in Africa and Asia.

I think Islam is a toxic hate group, more needs to be done to contain them, not help them spread to new continents.

As a gay man i have every reason to fear the spread of Islam.

[Cherie]

All I will say is that it is sometimes dangerous to use logic to try and predict/evaluate a situation. Just because someone says they are using the current crisis to flood the west with terrorists, doesn't mean that they are. That could easily be a smoke screen that is hiding true intentions.

For example, IS need a vulnerable population both to pick on and to spread the climate of fear. That is what feeds them, and strengthens them. Those fleeing (legitimately) are no longer there to terrorise, so it is in IS's interests to have as few people fleeing as possible. They want closed borders!. One thing is sure, Merkel is not stupid, and she may in fact be playing a blinder

I'm not advocating that anyone should be left in a country where they are unsafe, I just think there is a better way if doing it, being water cannoned, waiting for trains that don't show or at least are seriously overcrowded, the most vulnerable have no chance as it a free for all

[user104658]

I fail to see why it's up to Merkel to dictate what happens in other Europe countries. Germany tried to become the rulers of Europe in the 30s and 40s, now they've succeeded without a shot being fired.
Being of course an endless sceptic when it comes to any official body ever having good intentions when it comes right down to it - I have to agree with you there. The fact that Germany tried to conquer Europe through force not 80 years ago, failed, and has since rebuilt and excelled in what has to be record time after such a defeat, only to coincidentally effectively control Europe through other means... Well. I'm not much of a believer in coincidence, put it that way. It's one of those situations where "something doesn't sit quite right".

Just another TS conspiracy theory, right?

[empire]

merkel is an idiot, germany,france,britain should make the same move as hungry, and austria, these refugees have an ideology that if they don't get what they want, they will kill to get their goal, the men are from a culture where being chauvinist is the way of life for women, merkel was forewarned about the danger and risk that these men would rape german girls as young as ten, but she still let them in, think that having a rotherham scandal in every city in europe, who will the people vote for then, are democracy will fall apart, because we took a big risk in opening the floodgates, and turning are country into a cesspit.

[kirklancaster]

merkel is an idiot, germany,france,britain should make the same move as hungry, and austria, these refugees have an ideology that if they don't get what they want, they will kill to get their goal, the men are from a culture where being chauvinist is the way of life for women, merkel was forewarned about the danger and risk that these men would rape german girls as young as ten, but she still let them in, think that having a rotherham scandal in every city in europe, who will the people vote for then, are democracy will fall apart, because we took a big risk in opening the floodgates, and turning are country into a cesspit.

You always speak a lot of truth Empire. I applaud you. :thumbs:

[arista]

Germany no longer giving them free chocolate
Utter Mess

[DemolitionRed]

I fear for the world is the Muslims get a strong foothold in Europe as they already have in Africa and Asia.

I think Islam is a toxic hate group, more needs to be done to contain them, not help them spread to new continents.



The Daily Mail said something very similar to this about the Jews in 1939

[Kizzy]

Yes it's hate speech against a religious group and frowned on here in the UK.

[JoshBB]

I fear for the world is the Muslims get a strong foothold in Europe as they already have in Africa and Asia.

I think Islam is a toxic hate group, more needs to be done to contain them, not help them spread to new continents.

As a gay man i have every reason to fear the spread of Islam.

Things like this really worry me. The huge majority of muslims don't seek to hurt gay people. Don't generalise and have prejudice against a group when you really have no reason to.

[Livia]

The Daily Mail said something very similar to this about the Jews in 1939

The difference being that the Jews weren't laying waste to large parts of the Middle East at the time, suicide bombing, raping, murdering, beheading people and sending the message that they will never stop till their flag flies above Westminster and the White House.

[kirklancaster]

The difference being that the Jews weren't laying waste to large parts of the Middle East at the time, suicide bombing, raping, murdering, beheading people and sending the message that they will never stop till their flag flies above Westminster and the White House.

Morning Liv.

You bet me to it. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

So it's justifiable to tar every Muslim now? :/

[the truth]

The Daily Mail said something very similar to this about the Jews in 1939

youre comparing apples with oranges...though the Zionist movement has been pretty disgraceful im not sure its as big a threat to the world as radial islam, but I may be wrong

[Kizzy]

Nice to see the thoughts of refugees on this

More than 100 rabbis have delivered a letter to David Cameron urging him to accelerate and expand proposals for the UK to take in refugees fleeing the civil war in Syria, reminding the prime minister of those who welcomed Jews fleeing the Nazis last century.
Among delegates handing in the letter at No 10 on Monday morning were two people who came to the UK on the Kindertransport, which rescued 10,000 Jewish children from the Nazi threat between 1938 and 1940. Many of the rabbis who signed the letter were the children of refugees.

The group calls on the British government to offer asylum to a minimum of 10,000 “legitimate refugees” in the next six months. Cameron has said the government is willing to take 20,000 refugees over five years. Their letter also urges the government to re-examine asylum policies, in particular to allow refugees to work.
The letter says: “As rabbis and cantors we regularly read the story of a band of refugees who escaped from a tyrant with only the clothes on their backs and a bit of flat bread. They crossed a sea, and they dreamed of a promised land. We call this the exodus, and it is our founding beacon for hope, and our constant reminder in every generation to open our hearts and our doors to the stranger at our gates.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/21/rabbis-david-cameron-refugees-kindertransport