Is it ok to call people Loonys and racists based on political persuasion?

[billy123]

I notice on here it happens a lot that people of the left political persuasion are commonly called looneys.
Personally i think thats pretty offensive and only used by stupid people that are losing a debate as it refers to someone that is mad or refers to their mental state. I refrain from using the term Racisct Right as i think that is also too desperate but if its ok on here to keep using the term Looney left then the term Racist right is fine too then surely.

Most of the people that call people Looneys based only on their political views rarely get a reply from me anyway but they may be about to start being called the racist right.

[bots]

those bloody fence sitting middleists too :fist:

Its all about tone and context I think, and that gets lost on forums so easily

[Kizzy]

I notice on here it happens a lot that people of the left political persuasion are commonly called looneys.
Personally i think thats pretty offensive and only used by stupid people that are losing a debate as it refers to someone that is mad or refers to their mental state. I refrain from using the term Racisct Right as i think that is also too desperate but if its ok on here to keep using the term Looney left then the term Racist right is fine too then surely.

Most of the people that call people Looneys based only on their political views rarely get a reply from me anyway but they may be about to start being called the racist right.

I'm up for that, it's upsetting to have your view rubbished and patronised with that phrase, one of my biggest bugbears in SD.

[arista]

Im absolutely fine with being proved wrong by anyone but the idiots that just use the "its the looney left" line are just morons that use it because they are losing the debate and use it as a cheap attack.
Im so bored of it on here its either time to raise the level on this board or just leave it to rot.
There were even some members on here last night that had made a gif that suggested they were going to attack the SD section and they did.Most of the planks ran away and changed them as soon as the poo hit the fan.


No thats Legit.
Its backed up with Pure Examples
of Failed Left Wing Politics

[the truth]

this falsely labelling people racists bigots sexists etc etc is a dreadfully dangerous path its basically made people and politcians too scared to openly discuss opinions and morality...in short its destroying freedom of speech and that is a tragic thing

[billy123]

this falsely labelling people racists bigots sexists etc etc is a dreadfully dangerous path its basically made people and politcians too scared to openly discuss opinions and morality...in short its destroying freedom of speech and that is a tragic thingI agree labelling people is just not ok.

[joeysteele]

I hate it but it stems from hardline right wing attitudes in both right wing voters and the media for decades back.

Tony Benn was considered a loony for advocating leaving the EU in the 80s for instance,so following on, those who support left wing polices get termed as loonies and their support for more left of centre policies gets rubbished as looney left policies.

Hey, I never believed a few years ago I would find myself on that side of things but now I am.
if I get thought of as loony and wrong for supporting policies that are seen as far left which include standing up for and fighting for fairness and compassion for the most vulnerable in society,coming from those who support the heartless persecuting govt and party who are doing such heartless policymaking, then I am massively happy to be thought such,indeed actually proud of it too.

[Kizzy]

No thats Legit.
Its backed up with Pure Examples
of Failed Left Wing Politics

I get the impression this wasn't aimed at party policies rather personal views Arista.

[billy123]

I hate it but it stems from hardline right wing attitudes in both right wing voters and the media for decades back.

Tony Benn was considered a loony for advocating leaving the EU in the 80s for instance,so following on, those who support left wing polices get termed as loonies and their support for more left of centre policies gets rubbished as looney left policies.

Hey, I never believed a few years ago I would find myself on that side of things but now I am.
if I get thought of as loony and wrong for supporting policies that are seen as far left which include standing up for and fighting for fairness and compassion for the most vulnerable in society,coming from those who support the heartless persecuting govt and party who are doing such heartless policymaking, then I am massively happy to be thought such,indeed actually proud of it too.
Well summed up. To be called a loony for not being selfish just seems so alien to me. I can only put it down to fear and people being afraid of losing what they already have. Some of the propaganda and fear mongering used by the right wing media to scare people sickens me. What sickens me more is the people that are willing to swallow it.

[Kizzy]

Yes ditto to what Joey said too thanks Bob.

[JoshBB]

Yeah it really is sad when people have to use terms like 'looney left' in political debates rather than discuss actual policies.. proves theres not much to say I guess :shrug:

[Ammi]

...no of course it's not right Bob, no term/words are right as such if they're intentionally used as an insult...although as Arista said earlier, the looney right is an actual term stemming from the 80s I believe, so it would be determining if it was being used in that way and not meant in any other or maybe speak to Admin about it ...about whether it should be used at all..the 'looney' bit...'racist right' though is not something I'm personally familiar with as a 'term' so to call someone a racist could never be anything other than a negative/definite insult..and... a you calling me so I'm calling you is anyway just two people not being 'right' rather than just one.... it's also not right for people to be obviously targeted, sniped and digged at but sadly it happens almost daily as well..(sorry about your recent experience btw..)...but Bob, when you say 'for not being selfish'..isn't that also implying that people who may have an opposing opinion are selfish people ..which is neither true or right either....

[Kizzy]

...no of course it's not right Bob, no term/words are right as such if they're intentionally used as an insult...although as Arista said earlier, the looney right is an actual term stemming from the 80s I believe, so it would be determining if it was being used in that way and not meant in any other or maybe speak to Admin about it ...about whether it should be used at all..the 'looney' bit...'racist right' though is not something I'm personally familiar with as a 'term' so to call someone a racist could never be anything other than a negative/definite insult..and... a you calling me so I'm calling you is anyway just two people not being 'right' rather than just one.... it's also not right for people to be obviously targeted, sniped and digged at but sadly it happens almost daily as well..(sorry about your recent experience btw..)...but Bob, when you say 'for not being selfish'..isn't that also implying that people who may have an opposing opinion are selfish people ..which is neither true or right either....

He didn't say that and it isn't the loony right :/
Of course it wouldn't be acceptable to call anyone on the right anything at all, I wouldn't want to but it's really upsetting when forum members use this phrase constantly as a means of condescension and it isn't seen as sniping.
Nobody has said that anyone personally is selfish, only that the ideological views of the right do come across that way. It's very easy for things to be misconstrued and taken out of context.

[Northern Monkey]

I personally don't usually use 'looney left' or 'racist right' because i'm probably abit of both tbh.
I suppose it all depends on how you view freedom of speech and how far that should go.
Is 'looney left' or 'racist right' hate speech?I don't think so but hey who am i to determine that?
These are terms not exclusive to here and which have been used for years.
Now wether it's 'right' to use these terms and wether they are against the rules are two seperate things.What's offensive to one person is'nt to another.Everyones boundaries are different.If someone calls me racist for my views on immigration for instance i can laugh it off because i know for a fact that i am not.
The thing is.We can't ban everything that anyone may be offended by because then nobody would be able to express an opinion because not everybody agrees with each other.

[bots]

I may be mistaken, but I thought the Loony tag for a political party was penned by the Sun so we can all have 3 guesses where it was directed :laugh:

[joeysteele]

Well summed up. To be called a loony for not being selfish just seems so alien to me. I can only put it down to fear and people being afraid of losing what they already have. Some of the propaganda and fear mongering used by the right wing media to scare people sickens me. What sickens me more is the people that are willing to swallow it.

I agree with all that.

I am happy to be told I am wrong on issues, whether I take any notice of that or think I am, is down to me.
However the term loony used against someone for their views is an insult.

I don't know about being selfish,I was always brought up to reach out to others,especially those less fortunate than I am.
This is what I have tried to do,even as to my political views and actions now, and I for one could never support heartless,vindictive demonising and persecution of those who are weakest in society.
Neither could I,or even want to, support a political party that engaged in same either.

Many policies,such as the EU,cutting defence as to numbers of servicemen/women, were branded loony left policies against the left in the 80s, now these policies because they are currently being enacted by a right wing govt are seen as not loony at all but acceptable ones.

[JoshBB]

I agree with all that.

I am happy to be told I am wrong on issues, whether I take any notice of that or think I am, is down to me.
However the term loony used against someone for their views is an insult.

I don't know about being selfish,I was always brought up to reach out to others,especially those less fortunate than I am.
This is what I have tried to do,even as to my political views and actions now, and I for one could never support heartless,vindictive demonising and persecution of those who are weakest in society.
Neither could I,or even want to, support a political party that engaged in same either.

Many policies,such as the EU,cutting defence as to numbers of servicemen/women, were branded loony left policies against the left in the 80s, now these policies because they are currently being enacted by a right wing govt are seen as not loony at all but acceptable ones.

Minimum Wage, Gay Rights, Womens Rights & NHS were also considered loony left.

[joeysteele]

Minimum Wage, Gay Rights, Womens Rights & NHS were also considered loony left.

They were indeed.

[Kizzy]

:wavey: Hi Kizzy, I have no problem now with being called 'leftie',in fact I may get a badge with it on, I would be rather upset if anyone termed me 'rightie' however now.:joker:

Hi Joey :) Oh I have no problem being on the left either don't get me wrong, however I don't like the fact some attempt to use it as a club to beat me with due to the derogatory connotation provided by the sun 'news' paper in the 80s :laugh:

[Kyle]

Blimey, the heterophobia thread must really have taken a nosedive.

On the topic in question I don't think name calling on either side is very productive in debates as it only disenfranchises people even more causing them to dig their heels in.

[MTVN]

Edit: reopened

[empire]

the problem with the left wing is that, they think that violence and intimidation will make them the winners of the election,

[user104658]

the problem with the left wing is that, they think that violence and intimidation will make them the winners of the election,
The problem with the cheese is that butterflies and rainbows don't know how to solve complex maths equations rabble rabble rabble.

Huh?

Oh sorry, I thought we were just saying random ****. I thought that was what the thread was about.


Anyway, regarding the insults and whatever, yes they're stupid terms and generalising in general is generally stupid. However, I disagree with the entire concept of anything being "allowed" or otherwise. Unless threads have descended into outright jokey trolling, I personally think they should be left open, unedited and uncensored, and that people should be able to say what they want. That's just a personal opinion of mine that applies to all forums etc. I'd love to be able to open 'er up once in a while and see where threads would actually go. I don't think I've ever gotten past 3rd gear on here without the thread getting closed and / or deleted :shrug:.

Essentially, if people want to bleat media soundbites like "looney lefty" then they're simply demonstrating the sort of person that they are. So let them? Better to know than have them hide it, really.

[Mystic Mock]

those bloody fence sitting middleists too :fist:

Its all about tone and context I think, and that gets lost on forums so easily

I've been called that in the past.:joker:

[Ammi]

The problem with the cheese is that butterflies and rainbows don't know how to solve complex maths equations rabble rabble rabble.

Huh?

Oh sorry, I thought we were just saying random ****. I thought that was what the thread was about.


Anyway, regarding the insults and whatever, yes they're stupid terms and generalising in general is generally stupid. However, I disagree with the entire concept of anything being "allowed" or otherwise. Unless threads have descended into outright jokey trolling, I personally think they should be left open, unedited and uncensored, and that people should be able to say what they want. That's just a personal opinion of mine that applies to all forums etc. I'd love to be able to open 'er up once in a while and see where threads would actually go. I don't think I've ever gotten past 3rd gear on here without the thread getting closed and / or deleted :shrug:.

Essentially, if people want to bleat media soundbites like "looney lefty" then they're simply demonstrating the sort of person that they are. So let them? Better to know than have them hide it, really.

..I'm not going to comment on any of the OP or previous posts/comments etc because I don't want to inflame anything that has already been closed/cleaned etc which it obviously has....

..but what you're saying really is a completely un moderated site more or less then...for basically TiBB not to be TiBB at all or anything remotely resembling TiBB...and the sort of site..(when newspaper stories are discussed etc...)..of these 'say anything sites'...that we're all saying they're just awful because of bullying, trolling by some quite sinister people etc and in the extreme, some on them having taken their own lives because of the sites they are and what has been allowed through lack of moderation...because you and I both know that these things to the extent you seem to want , will not stay within a specific thread, I mean let's be honest, they don't anyway....

[Mystic Mock]

the problem with the left wing is that, they think that violence and intimidation will make them the winners of the election,

Both sides can be quite guilty of that tbf, not just the left.

And shouldn't the Forum put in place as the rules that you can call a Political Party anything that you like, but just don't tag it to other Forum Members?

[Northern Monkey]

Both sides can be quite guilty of that tbf, not just the left.

And shouldn't the Forum put in place as the rules that you can call a Political Party anything that you like, but just don't tag it to other Forum Members?

I would've said that would be correct.
To be able to say(type) 'looney left' or 'racist right' as long as you don't call another FM these things.

[user104658]

..I'm not going to comment on any of the OP or previous posts/comments etc because I don't want to inflame anything that has already been closed/cleaned etc which it obviously has....

..but what you're saying really is a completely un moderated site more or less then...for basically TiBB not to be TiBB at all or anything remotely resembling TiBB...and the sort of site..(when newspaper stories are discussed etc...)..of these 'say anything sites'...that we're all saying they're just awful because of bullying, trolling by some quite sinister people etc and in the extreme, some on them having taken their own lives because of the sites they are and what has been allowed through lack of moderation...because you and I both know that these things to the extent you seem to want , will not stay within a specific thread, I mean let's be honest, they don't anyway....
Unless TiBB membership was to suddenly surge by thousands, that wouldn't happen. Low / no moderation ONLY works on smaller communities like this one, but it can and does work. I'm talking more "no limits" than "no rulez", genuine bullying is pretty easy to spot.

But scrubbing every thread because things are said that some people might get a bit offended about... Well... Like I said. You can delete thy err words on screen but you can't delete the opinion that's in their head. I personally would rather know what a person actually thinks than have them self-centered or be censored by others. How can you form a legitimate opinion of someone otherwise? You might think they're awesome, only to find out that they've been holding back on some really, truly nasty opinions...

[user104658]

I'll add though that this is obviously personal preference. I've been a member of some great forums that worked this way... People REALLY get to know each other and develop mutual respect... But at the end of the day I am aware that the busiest sections of this forum are about reality TV and cat videos so I get that it has to be kept PG-13 :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

well lets hope anyone who supports UKIP does not get branded racist even though NONE of their policies are racist


:rolleyes:

[Ammi]

Unless TiBB membership was to suddenly surge by thousands, that wouldn't happen. Low / no moderation ONLY works on smaller communities like this one, but it can and does work. I'm talking more "no limits" than "no rulez", genuine bullying is pretty easy to spot.

But scrubbing every thread because things are said that some people might get a bit offended about... Well... Like I said. You can delete thy err words on screen but you can't delete the opinion that's in their head. I personally would rather know what a person actually thinks than have them self-centered or be censored by others. How can you form a legitimate opinion of someone otherwise? You might think they're awesome, only to find out that they've been holding back on some really, truly nasty opinions...

..I can't agree TS, numbers on the forum don't have a bearing in that it's more what you would like to see personally would attract to the forum a negative quality...'build and they will come'...that might be a movie quote but I think it's very true in life as well...you build negativity, and that's what it will attract and negativity breeds much more quickly that positivity, we both know that as well..and as it grows in numbers, the positivity leaves, becomes less balanced until there is none left and a total imbalance...and all you have....and I don't agree about the 'genuine bullying' either and it being easy to spot...bullying that is spotted as you say is in a way the easy bullying because it can be addressed..I don't mean easy as in it's potential damage to a person but it has been spotted so can be addressed...the 'genuine bullying' and only using that term, is the bullying that does take lives/lead to some taking their lives and that's because in so may cases it hasn't been spotted and 'actioned' ...and there are some very young people on this forum who have to be considered...those young people are also what makes TiBB hat it is and have a 'family' feel in general despite some personal agendas....

..with your last bit...that's the whole point TS, why do you need opinions on members..isn't it all about discussing topics with a wide variety of opinions and perspectives, so there is no relevance on opinions of members other than their opinions etc may not be something that you're interested in discussing with them in particular...I mean, what you're saying is that judging people is important to you in discussing something...and they're not people who are part of your own life/your 'real' life in anyway where you may thing....oh, I just can't connect to that person at all on any level so they won't be part of my life in any deep way etc...

[Ammi]

I'll add though that this is obviously personal preference. I've been a member of some great forums that worked this way... People REALLY get to know each other and develop mutual respect... But at the end of the day I am aware that the busiest sections of this forum are about reality TV and cat videos so I get that it has to be kept PG-13 :joker:

..mutual respect takes time often when opinions oppose and sadly, so often the judgements are made very quickly and then forever fixed....

[Ammi]

well lets hope anyone who supports UKIP does not get branded racist even though NONE of their policies are racist


:rolleyes:

..no, well think of something far worse for Ukippers..:laugh:...

[kirklancaster]

..I can't agree TS, numbers on the forum don't have a bearing in that it's more what you would like to see personally would attract to the forum a negative quality...'build and they will come'...that might be a movie quote but I think it's very true in life as well...you build negativity, and that's what it will attract and negativity breeds much more quickly that positivity, we both know that as well..and as it grows in numbers, the positivity leaves, becomes less balanced until there is none left and a total imbalance...and all you have....and I don't agree about the 'genuine bullying' either and it being easy to spot...bullying that is spotted as you say is in a way the easy bullying because it can be addressed..I don't mean easy as in it's potential damage to a person but it has been spotted so can be addressed...the 'genuine bullying' and only using that term, is the bullying that does take lives/lead to some taking their lives and that's because in so may cases it hasn't been spotted and 'actioned' ...and there are some very young people on this forum who have to be considered...those young people are also what makes TiBB hat it is and have a 'family' feel in general despite some personal agendas....

..with your last bit...that's the whole point TS, why do you need opinions on members..isn't it all about discussing topics with a wide variety of opinions and perspectives, so there is no relevance on opinions of members other than their opinions etc may not be something that you're interested in discussing with them in particular...I mean, what you're saying is that judging people is important to you in discussing something...and they're not people who are part of your own life/your 'real' life in anyway where you may thing....oh, I just can't connect to that person at all on any level so they won't be part of my life in any deep way etc...

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[bots]

this particular thread was only cleaned up to remove some off topic side chat. So, it wasn't anything that added to this particular topic

[Mystic Mock]

well lets hope anyone who supports UKIP does not get branded racist even though NONE of their policies are racist


:rolleyes:

It doesn't necessarily have to be racism, but the party did remove a youth member just because he believed in gay marriage, is that correct?

Obviously that has no bare on the voters necessarily, but it does on Farage and the rest of the party.

[user104658]

..mutual respect takes time often when opinions oppose and sadly, so often the judgements are made very quickly and then forever fixed....
Yes... When people clash and then the conversation is stopped / deleted before anything is resolved, resulting in a lasting frustration / resentment.

I also think that getting to know members is a vital part of debating on a chat forum (this is a small chat forum,, not a hard debate forum) but I did point out that it's personal preference and also that I understand the need for pg-13 when kids might wander in.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It doesn't necessarily have to be racism, but the party did remove a youth member just because he believed in gay marriage, is that correct?

Obviously that has no bare on the voters necessarily, but it does on Farage and the rest of the party.

I have never heard of that so if there is a link?

Every party since time began has paedos, criminals, etc as they reflect society broadly. You have to judge them on their policies and not by the odd crazy member.

[user104658]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:
Sort of surprised that you agree with the wing clipping, kirk... Your own posts and threads have been one of the biggest victims :shrug:

[Ammi]

Sort of surprised that you agree with the wing clipping, kirk... Your own posts and threads have been one of the biggest victims :shrug:

..this is the thing though/a big part of it...THIS IS THE THING EXACTLY..:laugh:...tit for tat and tat for tit ..(if I recall furry cuddly hamster/lions and tiger threads that have been closed as well..)...whatever this forum needs and whatever it's flaws or WHATEVER...what it needs most is a very, very heaped and overflowing spoonful od self awareness because that's exactly it and these comments that escalates and moves it so far from topic that really..?...who can be bothered, life is too short etc ..and so SD section becomes less and less appealing to anyone who wants any sense of balance and enjoyment out of the forum as well...anyways, I'm off to start my day so I'll leave you all to tit and tat and dance together....

..I'll have you know though that Josy is in tears right now, you trying to cut her hours and all and no consideration but a me, me, me attitude so pfffttt../unemployment figures...

[kirklancaster]

..this is the thing though/a big part of it...THIS IS THE THING EXACTLY..:laugh:...tit for tat and tat for tit ..(if I recall furry cuddly hamster/lions and tiger threads that have been closed as well..)...whatever this forum needs and whatever it's flaws or WHATEVER...what it needs most is a very, very heaped and overflowing spoonful od self awareness because that's exactly it and these comments that escalates and moves it so far from topic that really..?...who can be bothered, life is too short etc ..and so SD section becomes less and less appealing to anyone who wants any sense of balance and enjoyment out of the forum as well...anyways, I'm off to start my day so I'll leave you all to tit and tat and dance together....

..I'll have you know though that Josy is in tears right now, you trying to cut her hours and all and no consideration but a me, me, me attitude so pfffttt../unemployment figures...

But I have not actually posted Ammi, so it can't be 'Tit For Tat'. It's just T.S being nasty again. :laugh:

[user104658]

Maybe it's the assumption that we're getting at each other when we're not Ammi! :joker: "Stuff getting removed being really annoying" is one of the few topics where me and Kirk usually agree.

I say something really especially mean about the old bugger, cutting to the bone, I rub my hands together gleefully, go to the kitchen to make a cup of coffee... Come back and the whole thread is gone! Before it ever had a chance to be read. It's not just frustrating it's a tragedy...

[user104658]

I have never heard of that so if there is a link?

Every party since time began has paedos, criminals, etc as they reflect society broadly. You have to judge them on their policies and not by the odd crazy member.
But UKIP has LOADS of odd crazy members.

[Ammi]

..actually I just logged back on..:laugh:..TS, what I mean in self-awareness..(and I feel that you and I do have mutual respect/whatever our topic opinions..)..is that what you want is to be able to say etc for us all to...and yet when members who don't usually post so much in SD section/younger members ..do venture over and post about something they may have an interest in...you not only tell them that it's not important in the grand scheme etc..what they're passionate about...but you ridicule, mock etc how they express themselves and really let them know that they have no place in SD as you see it...so want the 'freedom of speech' as you want it and less restrictive...but have very little tolerance for others...what they post/what they post about etc...

[the truth]

the lefties took away freedom of speech. except for anyone who bashes white Christian men

[Kizzy]

..actually I just logged back on..:laugh:..TS, what I mean in self-awareness..(and I feel that you and I do have mutual respect/whatever our topic opinions..)..is that what you want is to be able to say etc for us all to...and yet when members who don't usually post so much in SD section/younger members ..do venture over and post about something they may have an interest in...you not only tell them that it's not important in the grand scheme etc..what they're passionate about...but you ridicule, mock etc how they express themselves and really let them know that they have no place in SD as you see it...so want the 'freedom of speech' as you want it and less restrictive...but have very little tolerance for others...what they post/what they post about etc...

I don't feel TS mocks younger members over how they express themselves, he can express himself on all levels and does regularly :laugh: I do see mocking and ridicule usually of say JoshBB and it really grinds my gears * family guy reference #downwitthekids * I'm being very honest when I say personally I'm really happy when I see younger members in SD, not so much when it's clearly as a way to blow smoke up another member for just being a forum qween or whatever mind.
Younger members are great, those who start or bleat about SD by making threads to mock or ridicule or trolling topics for the lols not so much... maybe they need a lesson in tolerance?
What mock suggested was succinct and brilliantly put tbh...
'And shouldn't the Forum put in place as the rules that you can call a Political Party anything that you like, but just don't tag it to other Forum Members?'
I 100% agree with that too.

[Livia]

Great. So I will never expect to see supporters of the Conservatives and UKIP called racists, Nazis, fascists, sheep or any other of the various insulting names I've seen people called on this forum. This is good news indeed.

[Kizzy]

No members have been insulted in that way and it not been seen as a rule break and the member guilty infracted have they? What has been attacked is right wing ideology and press bias... nothing to do with any individual fm.
Unlike the constant stream of accusations that members are lunatics :/

[Niamh.]

Closing this, nothing good is going to come of this thread