The UK Roma Gypsies are growing.

[BB4fan]

There is a rise in Roma Gypsy activity in London.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/544816/Roma-Gypsy-Migrant-Boasts-Free-Money-Benefits-System-Mansion

This article tells of how Roma Gypsies use Benefits and boast about it.

[BB4fan]

http://s29.postimg.org/xeftnnlzr/Park_Lane_2220595e.jpg

And London is filled with illegal migrants like this.

[Firewire]

The population is growing!!!

[BB4fan]

The population is growing!!!

Yeah, they are all over the place and they were asked kindly to go home and refused to leave.

They also carry knives and people are scared of them.

[Firewire]

Yeah, they are all over the place and they were asked kindly to go home and refused to leave.

They also carry knives and people are scared of them.

Refused to leave? Where? Are they UK citizens?

Do they? Who's scared?

[BB4fan]

Refused to leave? Where? Are they UK citizens?

Do they? Who's scared?

No, they are illegally living in the UK and they set up house outside local residents' homes and they cut the bin bags open with knives.


The local Council are left to clean up the mess.

[Firewire]

No, they are illegally living in the UK and they set up house outside local residents' homes and they cut the bin bags open with knives.


The local Council are left to clean up the mess.

If they are illegally living here they'll be deported.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a problem

[letmein]

This thread sounds like something out of Nazi Germany.

[empire]

soft touch policy has never worked in this country, the mps think that we have to put up with it, all for the no border policy, they have let in people who do the worst type of crimes ever, but the left wing are signing there own death warrent, because they put there own interests above the people who voted for them.

[BB4fan]

If they are illegally living here they'll be deported.


It costs money to return them all paid by the taxpayers and only for them to come back and do it again.

[arista]

http://s29.postimg.org/xeftnnlzr/Park_Lane_2220595e.jpg

And London is filled with illegal migrants like this.


Yes Its is Problem in London

[Iceman]

Yeah, they are all over the place and they were asked kindly to go home and refused to leave.

They also carry knives and people are scared of them.

Didn't realise every single one of them carried a knife. I'm glad you pointed that out.

[kirklancaster]

http://s29.postimg.org/xeftnnlzr/Park_Lane_2220595e.jpg

And London is filled with illegal migrants like this.

:nono: No BB4fan - this is just xenophobic scare-mongering. These videos are fabricated, and the 'Roma Gypsies' featured in them are actors - all paid for by some sinister Right Wing organisation for propaganda purposes.

And if you have DIRECT, PERSONAL experience of this which corroborates and substantiates the video content, then you are lying to further your own racist agenda.

Now repeat after me:

"You naughty, naughty, Boy."

[Livia]

When pickpockets are arrested on the underground a disproportionately large number of them are Roma. They are recognised as thieves and pickpockets in their own country but we're not allowed to recognise that here for fear of offending them. We have to tolerate them setting up camp in the Royal Parks, in tourist spots, laying waste to the area, they can beg - if you see a beggar on the tube, 10/1 they'll be Roma. It's not racist to say that these people are here because of the open borders policy; They are not here to work, but to thieve and claim benefits where they can. What do they offer this country? Nothing.

Romany gipsies.

[JoshBB]

This thread is going down an extremely racist route.. the roma people are people not pests.

[Livia]

This thread is going down an extremely racist route.. the roma people are people not pests.

The Roman people ARE pests. It isn't racist to say that if it's true. The vast majority of them are of the criminal element, evidence tell you that, even their own countrymen will tell you that. If they're not here to work and they're not legitimate refugees they should be shipped back the minute they break the law.

[kirklancaster]

This thread is going down an extremely racist route.. the roma people are people not pests.

:facepalm:

Idi Ammin, Hitler, and Stalin were not despicable dictators - they were people.
Peter Sutcliffe, Fred and Rose West, and Harold Shipman weren't perverse Serial Killers - they were people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/18/article-2367612-1ADCFD1E000005DC-626_964x636.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/18/article-2367612-1ADCFD42000005DC-880_964x636.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/18/article-2367612-1ADB055E000005DC-394_964x632.jpg

[JoshBB]

The Roman people ARE pests. It isn't racist to say that if it's true. The vast majority of them are of the criminal element, evidence tell you that, even their own countrymen will tell you that. If they're not here to work and they're not legitimate refugees they should be shipped back the minute they break the law.

This worries me. Livia do you actually believe this??

:facepalm:

Idi Ammin, Hitler, and Stalin were not despicable dictators - they were people.
Peter Sutcliffe, Fred and Rose West, and Harold Shipman weren't perverse Serial Killers - they were people.

Are we seriously comparing the roma people to murderous dictators?

[Iceman]

Stereotyping at its best.

[JoshBB]

Stereotyping at its best.

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

[kirklancaster]

This worries me. Livia do you actually believe this??



Are we seriously comparing the roma people to murderous dictators?

You are naive Josh - not stupid. Answer your own question. Am I?

[Iceman]

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

I know. It's really quite appaling how grown men and women actually do this. I pity them.

[JoshBB]

You are naive Josh - not stupid. Answer your own question. Am I?

It appears as if you are.

[kirklancaster]

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

Oh - unless - as I said earlier - the one's boasting and the others are actors being paid by some sinister Right Wing faction to portray Roma's in a bad light

[BB4fan]

People are forgetting the costs to send them home only for it to happen all over again.

I don't believe it's racist to bring this subject up, but I do believe that taxpayers' money is being spent here on the flight back home.

Why would they even come here just to live on the streets anyway...???

[JoshBB]

Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

But they aren't, and you're not sorry.

By your logic, because of hitler, stalin, and moussolini (and the white people that put them into power).. people could say that "white people are stereotyping themselves" and accuse white people of being criminals and fascists.

Do you not see the danger and racist undertone in your argument?

[kirklancaster]

Do you know Josh - you're naivety is so collossal, your perception of reality so skewed, and your logic so flawed that I really cannot be bothered answering.

[Dollface]

.

[Dollface]

oh wait wait this is SD&N

bye not getting involved

[Kyle]

There has been a sizeable community in flux around Doncaster and Sheffield for a while now though fortunately we don't deal with them so much in my Town.

Sorry Josh, I know anecdotal evidence is relatively weak but I'm afraid I'm going to have to go along with the sentiments of others in this thread.

[kirklancaster]

.

I loved your post much more, before you edited it Dollface.:laugh:

[Dollface]

I loved your post much more, before you edited it Dollface.:laugh:

I thought you would have :laugh:

I just can't be arsed getting into these kind of debates on here :bored:

[kirklancaster]

I thought you would have :laugh:

I just can't be arsed getting into these kind of debates on here :bored:

:laugh: I understand Doll, and I really don't blame you.

[Dollface]

:laugh: I understand Doll, and I really don't blame you.

:laugh: I'm glad you (and Livia, Chaos, and some others) are brave enough to speak your minds freely and openly without worrying about backlash, it's refreshing

[kirklancaster]

:laugh: I'm glad you (and Livia, Chaos, and some others) are brave enough to speak your minds freely and openly without worrying about backlash, it's refreshing

Sincere thanks for that Doll - it really means a lot. :flowers:

[Cherie]

:laugh: I'm glad you (and Livia, Chaos, and some others) are brave enough to speak your minds freely and openly without worrying about backlash, it's refreshing

Whats stopping you from speaking your mind, and what backlash would you get apart from maybe someone putting forward a counter argument?

[Ninastar]

:laugh: I'm glad you (and Livia, Chaos, and some others) are brave enough to speak your minds freely and openly without worrying about backlash, it's refreshing

Haha, wow. Thank you. That means a lot. :love:

[JoshBB]

Do you know Josh - you're naivety is so collossal, your perception of reality so skewed, and your logic so flawed that I really cannot be bothered answering.

Seems more like you don't know how to respond tbh.

[JoshBB]

:laugh: I'm glad you (and Livia, Chaos, and some others) are brave enough to speak your minds freely and openly without worrying about backlash, it's refreshing

I don't think you've noticed but they aren't exactly the minority of opinion in most threads :laugh:

Nothing braver than saying what everyone else is, right?

[kirklancaster]

Seems more like you don't know how to respond tbh.

Yeah - like I love the futility of accurately describing the vista to a man who has full eyesight but won't open his eyes.

You have descended to the tradition of misrepresenting what I so clearly said, and ignoring concrete evidence because neither fits in with your own bigoted left wing views, and that it ill becomes genuine debate.

[JoshBB]

Yeah - like I love the futility of accurately describing the vista to a man who has full eyesight but won't open his eyes.

You have descended to the tradition of misrepresenting what I so clearly said, and ignoring concrete evidence because neither fits in with your own bigoted left wing views, and that it ill becomes genuine debate.

Sorry but I'm not the one generalising an entire ethnic group because some of that group commits crime??

It's literally no different from people who say we should have racial profiling because 'black people are more likely to commit crimes'. It's the same concept, and it's just as racist.

Just because racial slurs against roma people are less frowned upon than racial slurs against black/jewish/arabic people, doesn't make them any less abhorrent and disgusting, and doesn't eliminate the fact that bigotry like this has lead as far as genocide (with somewhere between 220,000 and 1.5 million romani people killed in Nazi Germany alone).

[kirklancaster]

I don't think you've noticed but they aren't exactly the minority of opinion in most threads :laugh:

Nothing braver than saying what everyone else is, right?

Are you drunk today? The three aforementioned members are in a CLEAR minority in most of the Serious Debate threads on here, and you are now being insulting because I always say exactly what I think irrespective of whether it is popular or not and I am sure from the evidence, that the other two do as well.

Come back and argue when you are older than 14 Josh and when you have life experience outside of that cyber/media bubble you so obviously dwell in.

[JoshBB]

Are you drunk today? The three aforementioned members are in a CLEAR minority in most of the Serious Debate threads on here, and you are now being insulting because I always say exactly what I think irrespective of whether it is popular or not and I am sure from the evidence, that the other two do as well.

Come back and argue when you are older than 14 Josh and when you have life experience outside of that cyber/media bubble you so obviously dwell in.

A clear minority?? Last I checked most of the threads end up being "empire, the truth, kirklancaster, arista, LeatherTrumpet, Livia & co arguing for one side, and then me, kizzy, and occasionally joeysteele/DemolitionRed"

Also there's no reason to start getting personal, accusing me of being drunk, and belittling me because I'm younger than you. (and i'm 15 js)

[Dollface]

Whats stopping you from speaking your mind, and what backlash would you get apart from maybe someone putting forward a counter argument?

Being wrongfully labelled a racist, xenophobe, etc.

I'd just rather not get involved when it's obvious how it will end up; me getting irritated by a 15 year old who thinks he knows the world inside and out.

[JoshBB]

Being wrongfully labelled a racist, xenophobe, etc.

I'd just rather not get involved when it's obvious how it will end up; me getting irritated by a 15 year old who thinks he knows the world inside and out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism

The personal attack was cute too babes :love:

[kirklancaster]

Sorry but I'm not the one generalising an entire ethnic group because some of that group commits crime??

It's literally no different from people who say we should have racial profiling because 'black people are more likely to commit crimes'. It's the same concept, and it's just as racist.

Just because racial slurs against roma people are less frowned upon than racial slurs against black/jewish/arabic people, doesn't make them any less abhorrent and disgusting, and doesn't eliminate the fact that bigotry like this has lead as far as genocide (with somewhere between 220,000 and 1.5 million romani people killed in Nazi Germany alone).

Right. Now IF you have any intelligence and honesty at all Josh - Give me a STRAIGHT answer to this:

WHERE IN MY POST DO YOU JUSTIFY WRITING THE DISHONEST CRAP ABOVE?:

"Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

Oh - unless - as I said earlier - the one's boasting and the others are actors being paid by some sinister Right Wing faction to portray Roma's in a bad light"

A cretin can see that you are misrepresenting what my post says. In the section which I have emboldened, I actually ALLOW the fact that these scumbag parasites in the video footage and article in the OP are NOT typical of the majority of Roma Gypsy people - so why are you misrepresenting what I have said?

[Dollface]

I don't think you've noticed but they aren't exactly the minority of opinion in most threads :laugh:

Nothing braver than saying what everyone else is, right?

That's not what i've seen (admittedly i don't venture to this subform often though). But it is brave when you have people throwing around the terms racist and xenophobic all the time, because people misuse those words (which are serious words) so much.

[BB4fan]

If we can't talk about the problem, then we can't solve it. There is no harm in talking about the issue here and in no way racist.

[Dollface]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism

The personal attack was cute too babes :love:

What's the link for? How does that have anything to do with my post? lol

If you find the truth "cute" then good for you Josh.

[JoshBB]

Right. Now IF you have any intelligence and honesty at all Josh - Give me a STRAIGHT answer to this:

WHERE IN MY POST DO YOU JUSTIFY WRITING THE DISHONEST CRAP ABOVE?:

"Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

Oh - unless - as I said earlier - the one's boasting and the others are actors being paid by some sinister Right Wing faction to portray Roma's in a bad light"

A cretin can see that you are misrepresenting what my post says. In the section which I have emboldened, I actually ALLOW the fact that these scumbag parasites in the video footage and article in the OP are NOT typical of the majority of Roma Gypsy people - so why are you misrepresenting what I have said?

Your post on xenophobic scaremongering was very good actually I thought, and if you feel misrepresented in your views then I apologise because that was not my intention. But when you used the facepalm emote in response to my post on Roma people not being pests, I took that to be playing into the same xenophobic rhetoric that you claimed not to be a part of.

Your opinion has been a little shaky throughout this thread tbh, I'm not completely sure where you stand on this.. but perhaps my words were directed towards the wrong person here if you truly stand against antiziganism. If that is true then I apologise.

But to all those who deliberately played into the racist rhetoric against roma people and allowed for this thread to get so heated only to perpetuate your own hatred.. shame on you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old :hee:)

[JoshBB]

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old :hee:)

Thank you for not getting involved with the personal attacks here LT, I respect you for that :love:

[kirklancaster]

That's not what i've seen (admittedly i don't venture to this subform often though). But it is brave when you have people throwing around the terms racist and xenophobic all the time, because people misuse those words (which are serious words) so much.

This is exactly what is happening in the UK Dollface - the silent majority KNOW the truth but dare not speak it because of exactly the reasons which you have given as why you (and a lot of other members) do not come onto Serious Debates -- Being falsely accused of Racism, Xenophobia or some other 'ism' or 'phobia.

And it is a great shame.

[Dollface]

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old :hee:)

I respect Josh for having an opinion and sharing it even when many others don't agree with him. I also respect his passion for multiculturalism. He is fighting the good fight, I just don't agree with the ways in which he does it, he acts as if every little thing is racist and that is not good for anyone.

[JoshBB]

This is exactly what is happening in the UK Dollface - the silent majority KNOW the truth but dare not speak it because of exactly the reasons which you have given as why you (and a lot of other members) do not come onto Serious Debates -- Being falsely accused of Racism, Xenophobia or some other 'ism' or 'phobia.

And it is a great shame.

I may only be 15.. but if I've learned anything it's that the only way hatred is accepted and spread is when it's referred to as 'truth'. Not to breach Godwin's Law or anything.. but it's exactly how Hitler did it. (of course the racism is nowhere near as extreme as his, but still)

I respect Josh for having an opinion and sharing it even when many others don't agree with him. I also respect his passion for multiculturalism. He is fighting the good fight, I just don't agree with the ways in which he does it, he acts as if every little thing is racist and that is not good for anyone.

I honestly fail to see how prejudice and stereotyping of an ethnic group isn't racist, and my intention is not to label people and shame them but to hopefully change attitudes. I hate racism and have seen friends face it, with one of my closest friends having to move from his street and consequently school because his neighbours were constantly racist to his parents (they're asian). I've also seen teachers visibly upset because they've been called a terrorist literally only for wearing a hijab when they're literally the happiest and one of the most kind and caring teachers in my whole school.

[empire]

people from other countries in europe will tell you the truth in what roma gypsies, are really like, the left wing are giving these people the right to steal, beat people, and harass old people on the street, my dad and brother chased a few of them for trying to get money out an old lady's bag, and the police do nothing, some of the sex trafficking is caused by roma gangs, the greeks and italians call them rats, they dress rough because thats how they get there money when fake begging on the streets,

[Livia]

This worries me. Livia do you actually believe this??


Are we seriously comparing the roma people to murderous dictators?

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

Yes, Josh. I do believe it. And what's more my beliefs are based on something. I've experienced the little gangs of pickpockets on the Tube, I've seen them begging and setting up camp in London. They are mostly criminals. Now, please don't get these people mixed up with Romany gipsies. I have a Romany camp not too far from where I live. There was a big fight against their planning permission around here I will admit, although I wasn't involved, but they are the nicest people, have the neatest grounds and restore the old horse-drawn caravans. They are interesting the friendly. Sadly they get tarred with the same brush as the Romanian gypsies who have really shown the Transport Police and the Met what a bloody nuisance they are. And more sadly, if anyone mentions what a nightmare they are they're branded racist. If there's stereotyping going on it's because they are stereotypical.

[Dollface]

I honestly fail to see how prejudice and stereotyping of an ethnic group isn't racist, and my intention is not to label people and shame them but to hopefully change attitudes. I hate racism and have seen friends face it, with one of my closest friends having to move from his street and consequently school because his neighbours were constantly racist to his parents (they're asian). I've also seen teachers visibly upset because they've been called a terrorist literally only for wearing a hijab when they're literally the happiest and one of the most kind and caring teachers in my whole school.

All I ever see from you is labeling and attempting to shame people. Being labelled a racist is incredibly insulting and insinuating someone is a racist is quite serious. If you did this sort of thing in the real world you could end up getting yourself in trouble (for example, if you labelled someone a racist at work, he/she could take you to court for it)

The way your friend and teachers were treated is disgusting, but those people (the ones who verbally abused them) are the type of people you should be saying this sort of stuff to. My year at school only had 1 Indian girl, 1 Muslim girl and 1 Black girl and I was friends with and loved them all (especially the indian girl, she was hilarious) and if anyone treated them the way your friend was treated I would have been so angry so I can get where your anger comes from, but it seems misplaced.

[kirklancaster]

It's relevant because you're claiming not to be racist yet showing support for people showing clearly racist attitudes towards Romanis.

I thought you would find the link educational :hee:

Here we go again Josh. Why are you accusing Dollface of supporting " people showing clearly raciist attitudes towards Romanis."?

The only supportive words Dollface wrote was admiring myself, Livia and Chaos for speaking our minds despite the risk of being called zenophobic or racist - Which, by the way is EXACTLY what has happened.

[Dollface]

Here we go again Josh. Why are you accusing Dollface of supporting " people showing clearly raciist attitudes towards Romanis."?

The only supportive words Dollface wrote was admiring myself, Livia and Chaos for speaking our minds despite the risk of being called zenophobic or racist - Which, by the way is EXACTLY what has happened.

Thanks, I thought this myself but honestly I find it exhausting defending myself.

[user104658]

Hmmmm I'm too tired to think about my opinion on Roma clans right now but I just have to add to this thread;

Us SD&N regulars aren't "brave", we've just all been in these trenches so long that we've become sort of bulletproof :joker:. Even little Josh http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/animaux-insectes/chienchat/chienmord.gif

And I'd add that both "sides" of any thread get slammed pretty hard around here, it's definitely not one sided, I find myself on the loony left quite a lot but have certainly been in agreement with the "other lot" on enough occasions to know that there's very little difference when it comes to how "brave" you have to be to make your point. SOMEONE'S going to be butthurt by it, and they're darn well going to make sure you know about it by golly by gum!

Wait, what's this thread about again? Oh yeah, gypsies. Ummm. It irritates me when they try to sell me **** flowers and then get abusive when I politely tell them to piss off. That's about as much as I can manage on the topic. Really effing tired.

[JoshBB]

All I ever see from you is labeling and attempting to shame people. Being labelled a racist is incredibly insulting and insinuating someone is a racist is quite serious. If you did this sort of thing in the real world you could end up getting yourself in trouble (for example, if you labelled someone a racist at work, he/she could take you to court for it)

The way your friend and teachers were treated is disgusting, but those people (the ones who verbally abused them) are the type of people you should be saying this sort of stuff to. My year at school only had 1 Indian girl, 1 Muslim girl and 1 Black girl and I was friends with and loved them all (especially the indian girl, she was hilarious) and if anyone treated them the way your friend was treated I would have been so angry so I can get where your anger comes from, but it seems misplaced.

Last thing I would want is for people to feel ashamed of themselves, that's everything I stand against and is the basis for which I usually label racist comments as prejudiced. Anything I've said was because the posts on here striked me as particularly racist against the Romani ethnic group and I was actually quite upset reading some of the things on here. I don't know any romani people personally but they are human beings just like me and you, and nobody deserves to be labelled and shamed as a criminal just because of their ethnicity.

I can relate to your story by the way. Seems that most of my friends are minorities too and they're all lovely people :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Last thing I would want is for people to feel ashamed of themselves, that's everything I stand against and is the basis for which I usually label racist comments as prejudiced. Anything I've said was because the posts on here striked me as particularly racist against the Romani ethnic group and I was actually quite upset reading some of the things on here. I don't know any romani people personally but they are human beings just like me and you, and nobody deserves to be labelled and shamed as a criminal just because of their ethnicity.

I can relate to your story by the way. Seems that most of my friends are minorities too and they're all lovely people :laugh:

And THERE we have it Josh. You have NO direct experience of the type of people in the OP, yet you not only deny the evidence presented on tape and in the written word, but you also deny the first hand testimony of those who HAVE direct experience.

You cannot be taken serious. In a court trial you would be laughed out of court opposing such evidence with 'a feeling, a thought, a fancy'.

[Dollface]

Last thing I would want is for people to feel ashamed of themselves, that's everything I stand against and is the basis for which I usually label racist comments as prejudiced. Anything I've said was because the posts on here striked me as particularly racist against the Romani ethnic group and I was actually quite upset reading some of the things on here. I don't know any romani people personally but they are human beings just like me and you, and nobody deserves to be labelled and shamed as a criminal just because of their ethnicity.

I can relate to your story by the way. Seems that most of my friends are minorities too and they're all lovely people :laugh:

I'm a bit confused as to what a Romani person is, in all honesty. I always thought Romani = Gypsy = Someone who lives in a caravan ? But from the looks of things they're an ethnic group, so i'm pretty confused. :laugh:

Isn't Esmeralda from Hunchback of Notre dame a Romani gypsy? :unsure:

Like I said, I like and respect what you stand for, I just think your goal of changing peoples attitutes would be much more likely to succeed if you were to talk how you're talking right now, rather than using the words racist/xenophobe.

[JoshBB]

And THERE we have it Josh. You have NO direct experience of the type of people in the OP, yet you not only deny the evidence presented on tape and in the written word, but you also deny the first hand testimony of those who HAVE direct experience.

You cannot be taken serious. In a court trial you would be laughed out of court opposing such evidence with 'a feeling, a thought, a fancy'.

How many Romani friends do you have Kirk?

I'm a bit confused as to what a Romani person is, in all honesty. I always thought Romani = Gypsy = Someone who lives in a caravan ? But from the looks of things they're an ethnic group, so i'm pretty confused. :laugh:

Isn't Esmeralda from Hunchback of Notre dame a Romani gypsy? :unsure:

Like I said, I like and respect what you stand for, I just think your goal of changing peoples attitutes would be much more likely to succeed if you were to talk how you're talking right now, rather than using the words racist/xenophobe.

A romani person is a person of the Romani ethnicity (for lack of better wording). & I would have no idea with the second thing because I've never seen that movie :laugh:

I normally do speak to people like this but threads on here tend to get heated and I get caught up in it like others do.

[Ninastar]

Thank you, I appreciate your respect. It's mutual.

But in regards to your xism comment, honestly I call em like I see em. I usually much prefer to regard peoples' comments as racist (for example) rather than the person themselves, because right now I think there's a really unfortunate trend of nice people being turned nasty almost because of xenophobic narrative. It's very rare that I do label people racist unless they show little sign of attempting to eradicate the hatred from within (that sounded really hippy-like, wow).

The Azealia Banks thread thing.. I mean, she really does appear to me like an awful homophobic person and I believe I have posted that somewhere else now you mention it. But I think that every person with prejudice that actively discriminates needs help.. for the sake of the people they are oppressing mostly.

I just genuinely think that 99% of the people on here arent racist and that it's silly to assume that someone is. I appreciate that you stick up for 'minorities' and what have you, but I think that there's times where you stick up for people, with a biased opinion and don't see the bad in them. Which I suppose isn't a bad thing. I just think that (in as nice a way as possible) the world is a lot different to how you see it. Schools are incredibly biased these days in the way that they teach. Once you start getting more freedom from school, once you go out and meet new people in ways other than school, you'll start to see the world differently. I'm sure you'll always be passionate about sticking up for minorities, and I will too. But I don't defend them when they are in the wrong, just because they have had a tough life.

I think that you've got a bright future ahead of you. And I totally respect you for that. But I think that you also have a lot to learn. The world isn't just black and white and minorities aren't always just poor little victims. I just think that words like 'racist' and 'sexist' and 'xenophobic' are thrown around waaaay waaay too much these days.

[Niamh.]

Can you all try to discuss the topic and not eachother please

[Dollface]

How many Romani friends do you have Kirk?



A romani person is a person of the Romani ethnicity (for lack of better wording). & I would have no idea with the second thing because I've never seen that movie :laugh:

I normally do speak to people like this but threads on here tend to get heated and I get caught up in it like others do.

I just googled it and yes she is :amazed:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmrdypaAPS1qhigt0o1_500.gif

:love: I'm bringing Disney into Serious Debates & News :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

How many Romani friends do you have Kirk?



A romani person is a person of the Romani ethnicity (for lack of better wording). & I would have no idea with the second thing because I've never seen that movie :laugh:

I normally do speak to people like this but threads on here tend to get heated and I get caught up in it like others do.

None Josh, but I HAVE direct experience of the type of scumbags in the OP. They infect certain areas of Doncaster where I own property and everything in the OP is true of these lawless arrogant bastards. I have had several run-ins with them, though my own properties have not been bothered by them, but a Landlord who owns a house on the same street has. He had garden ornaments and a bike stolen from his backyard and then surprised three men who were in the process of stealing a huge concrete ornamental planter. They attacked him and beat him up, and STILL took the planter.

Just for the record - I am NOT saying this is typical behaviour of the majority of Roma's, just those scumbags in the OP -- which is ALL this particular thread is about.

[JoshBB]

I just googled it and yes she is :amazed:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmrdypaAPS1qhigt0o1_500.gif

:love: I'm bringing Disney into Serious Debates & News :laugh:

I'm all for it

[kirklancaster]

Can you all try to discuss the topic and not eachother please

Fair request Niamh and I apologise for my transgressions. I'm out of here anyway.

[Ninastar]

I just googled it and yes she is :amazed:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmrdypaAPS1qhigt0o1_500.gif

:love: I'm bringing Disney into Serious Debates & News :laugh:

She was like my first ever love omg. I remember always watching the film just because of her

[user104658]

Can you all try to discuss the topic and not eachother please

Party-pooper, where's the fun in that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Party-pooper, where's the fun in that?

shurrup TS you looney leftie

:fist:

[Dollface]

She was like my first ever love omg. I remember always watching the film just because of her

I always wanted her and Quasi to get together!!! D:

[Liam-]

I don't have an issue with people coming over here if it's for genuine reasons, but we have enough crime in Britain as it is without foreigners coming over here to take advantage of our easy touch government, we're too concerned about looking good to the rest of the world to put our foot down and deport people if they don't bring something to the table for us, Government, especially right now are so concerned with cutting British people's benefits because a minority of the population are playing silly buggers with the system, but yet they're happy to allow people to come over here - who a lot of the time have no intention to work or to give back to a country willing to take them in - and scrounge off of the benefits so they can stay here and commit crimes against people, it's ludicrous.

If you want to come over here to work and live a better life for you and your family, come on over, you're more than welcome, but if you want to come over to break the law and do your own thing, then don't even bother coming, but if they do, send them back to where they come from, we have enough issues of our own without having to deal with people like that.

[Ninastar]

I don't have an issue with people coming over here if it's for genuine reasons, but we have enough crime in Britain as it is without foreigners coming over here to take advantage of our easy touch government, we're too concerned about looking good to the rest of the world to put our foot down and deport people if they don't bring something to the table for us, Government, especially right now are so concerned with cutting British people's benefits because a minority of the population are playing silly buggers with the system, but yet they're happy to allow people to come over here - who a lot of the time have no intention to work or to give back to a country willing to take them in - and scrounge off of the benefits so they can stay here and commit crimes against people, it's ludicrous.

If you want to come over here to work and live a better life for you and your family, come on over, you're more than welcome, but if you want to come over to break the law and do your own thing, then don't even bother coming, but if they do, send them back to where they come from, we have enough issues of our own without having to deal with people like that.

Totally and utterly agree, as always. Well said.

[AnnieK]

What I find intriguing, is we are all so busy defending people from other cultures and their rights to be here that we are allowing our national identity to slip a little. There was a story in the paper about a guy serving in the RAF being asked to leave a hospital waiting room for fear that his uniform would upset other cultures. This guy has served on active duty and he and all the other armed forces now and in the past have allowed us to enjoy our country as a safe and liberal place but it seems it is ok to offend people like that but God forbid you dare air views on other cultures for fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist (which I am neither). All the media hype about immigrants are fuelng people's distrust / dislike and making the situation worse IMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249717/Hospital-told-RAF-sergeant-leave-waiting-room-case-uniform-upset-patients.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

What I find intriguing, is we are all so busy defending people from other cultures and their rights to be here that we are allowing our national identity to slip a little. There was a story in the paper about a guy serving in the RAF being asked to leave a hospital waiting room for fear that his uniform would upset other cultures. This guy has served on active duty and he and all the other armed forces now and in the past have allowed us to enjoy our country as a safe and liberal place but it seems it is ok to offend people like that but God forbid you dare air views on other cultures for fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist (which I am neither). All the media hype about immigrants are fuelng people's distrust / dislike and making the situation worse IMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249717/Hospital-told-RAF-sergeant-leave-waiting-room-case-uniform-upset-patients.html

that disgusting story made me so angry i could not even find it in myself to make a thread

[Niamh.]

What I find intriguing, is we are all so busy defending people from other cultures and their rights to be here that we are allowing our national identity to slip a little. There was a story in the paper about a guy serving in the RAF being asked to leave a hospital waiting room for fear that his uniform would upset other cultures. This guy has served on active duty and he and all the other armed forces now and in the past have allowed us to enjoy our country as a safe and liberal place but it seems it is ok to offend people like that but God forbid you dare air views on other cultures for fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist (which I am neither). All the media hype about immigrants are fuelng people's distrust / dislike and making the situation worse IMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249717/Hospital-told-RAF-sergeant-leave-waiting-room-case-uniform-upset-patients.html

That's shocking. I'm all for helping refugees but they need to respect our cultures if they want to come to our countries, that I do agree with.

[Liam-]

Totally and utterly agree, as always. Well said.

:love:

[jennyjuniper]

This thread is going down an extremely racist route.. the roma people are people not pests.

They are people who ARE pests.

[kirklancaster]

I don't have an issue with people coming over here if it's for genuine reasons, but we have enough crime in Britain as it is without foreigners coming over here to take advantage of our easy touch government, we're too concerned about looking good to the rest of the world to put our foot down and deport people if they don't bring something to the table for us, Government, especially right now are so concerned with cutting British people's benefits because a minority of the population are playing silly buggers with the system, but yet they're happy to allow people to come over here - who a lot of the time have no intention to work or to give back to a country willing to take them in - and scrounge off of the benefits so they can stay here and commit crimes against people, it's ludicrous.

If you want to come over here to work and live a better life for you and your family, come on over, you're more than welcome, but if you want to come over to break the law and do your own thing, then don't even bother coming, but if they do, send them back to where they come from, we have enough issues of our own without having to deal with people like that.

:worship:

[JoshBB]

What I find intriguing, is we are all so busy defending people from other cultures and their rights to be here that we are allowing our national identity to slip a little. There was a story in the paper about a guy serving in the RAF being asked to leave a hospital waiting room for fear that his uniform would upset other cultures. This guy has served on active duty and he and all the other armed forces now and in the past have allowed us to enjoy our country as a safe and liberal place but it seems it is ok to offend people like that but God forbid you dare air views on other cultures for fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist (which I am neither). All the media hype about immigrants are fuelng people's distrust / dislike and making the situation worse IMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249717/Hospital-told-RAF-sergeant-leave-waiting-room-case-uniform-upset-patients.html

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.

They are people who ARE pests.

An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commits?

[kirklancaster]

Just for the record - I am willing to PROOF to Josy or any appropriate Mod, genuine letters with names, addresses and phone numbers of Asians in Huddersfield and Bradford, Albanians in Sheffield, and Lithuanians in Doncaster who respect me and number me as a friend due to the fact that I have helped each and every one of them and their families in diverse ways including fighting injustice over the past 8 years or so.

Why? Because they are all decent, law abiding, hard-working people who WANT to integrate and who respect us and our way of life.

Are there Asians, Albanians, Lithuanians who are utter, benefit scrounging criminal turds who do not respect us and despise our way of life? Yes, just are there are British ones.

Would I help them or want to befriend them?

No more than I would the turds in the OP.

[AnnieK]

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.



An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commeits?

It was reported in all the newspapers so you cannot say the Daily Mail has used it. The army should be "bigged" up imo opinion, had service personnel not served this country would not be the safe haven it is today. This incident, be it a one off or not, is deplorable

[kirklancaster]

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.



An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commits?

FFS These types of incidents are widespread and increasing.

[kirklancaster]

It was reported in all the newspapers so you cannot say the Daily Mail has used it. The army should be "bigged" up imo opinion, had service personnel not served this country would not be the safe haven it is today. This incident, be it a one off or not, is deplorable

You are wasting your time.

[kirklancaster]

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.



An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commits?

I believe - like me - Jenny was referring SPECIFICALLY to the ROMA TURDS in the OP.

[Livia]

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again






This was NOT a one-off incident. There are no military hospitals any more and our troops have to be treated in civilian hospitals. There have been numerous documented verbal and physical attacks on soldier in hospital, by Muslims, livid that the soldiers were being treated on the same ward as their family. My husband wasn't allowed to wear his uniform in public despite the fact he was serving his country and was fiercely proud of that. Compare that to the USA where military service is respected and military personnel in uniform are treated with respect.

The story Annie posted was disgusting, and all you can say is that it was a one-off to "demonise migrants and big-up the army"? It seems you only believe the stories that suit your agenda Josh. Everything else is a right-wing plot.

[Samuel.]

I can see both sides of the argument. Never should an entire ethnicity be generalised, individuals obviously can differ massively despite sharing the same cultural background and upbringing, however of course there will inevitably be differences in what's deemed acceptable behaviour and perhaps (I don't know a great deal about them) Roma gypsies' way of life has lead to them believing thieving to survive to be perfectly acceptable within their community. That's not to say they are evil people or anything alike but it could well be an attitude that has been passed done through generations of trying to survive in a lifestyle that is becoming increasingly hard to sustain, but also obviously the only way of life they've known.

With that said, I don't know what my thoughts are on this story :laugh:

[MTVN]

All this over a story from December 2014 that's been posted lol? I get that this thread has branched out a bit but actually the (old) news story in the OP doesn't offend me that much. He's a scrap metal collector whose wage is so low that he's eligible for benefits and tax credits. He tops up his earnings with those and he sends his money home to support his family. He's from an EU country so has the right to free movement and he can do what he likes with his money. I don't see why people are talking about our country being an 'easy touch' or how we should be deporting people breaking our laws because, as far as I can see, this man is doing nothing illegal. If people have a problem with it then blame the system not the low-earning scrap metal collector who is using EU values to support himself and his family.

[DemolitionRed]

Roma originated in Northern India, something like a thousand years ago. The language they speak is Romani/y which is basically a dialect of the Hindu language. When a gypsy talks about himself he will call himself 'Roma' but when he talks about a group of gypsies he will call them 'Romani/y'.

My thoughts are...gypsies, whether they be Irish Tinkers or Romani's can be problematic here in the UK. Most of them were born here, though we do have Romani's coming in from other parts of Europe and Tinkers coming over from Ireland.

Many Romani's are hard working, honest and law abiding citizens but we never hear about the proud Romani's, just the trouble makers. In the UK it feels as though the Romani trouble makers are a law unto themselves. Police often refuse to venture into camps or even get involved when they hear the word 'gypsy'.

In France, (not so much the big cities) the Romani's are better tolerated by the general population as a travelling work force. People don't fear them, in fact they are a well respected people. They are encouraged to work, even those in the camps give basket weaving lessons and teach the public about traditional gypsy ways. If they cause any problem the gendarme come down on them like a ton of bricks.

[letmein]

The Roman people ARE pests. It isn't racist to say that if it's true. The vast majority of them are of the criminal element, evidence tell you that, even their own countrymen will tell you that. If they're not here to work and they're not legitimate refugees they should be shipped back the minute they break the law.

How is this thread still open?

[letmein]

Can you all try to discuss the topic and not eachother please

This is a hate thread and should be locked. Warnings should be going out as well. I can't believe hate speech like this is even permissible here. Open up a history book. Anti-Roma propaganda like this is dangerous. It led to genocide the last time.

[user104658]

I can't believe hate speech like this is even permissible here.

Really? It's not that uncommon on here tbh...

[kirklancaster]

This is a hate thread and should be locked. Warnings should be going out as well. I can't believe hate speech like this is even permissible here. Open up a history book. Anti-Roma propaganda like this is dangerous. It led to genocide the last time.

There is no 'Hate Speech' of Romas per se, just the truth about about a certain group of unlawful people who just happen to be 'Roma'.

If a pack of feral dogs were roaming around entering homes and attacking people, would a member outlining the existence of such be accused of 'misocyny' - the hating of all dogs?

Perspective is what's needed not thread closing.

[kirklancaster]

Was the great Dean Martin xenophobic? I only ask because I swear I once heard him singing; 'Arriverderci Roma'.

[user104658]

There is no 'Hate Speech' of Romas per se, just the truth about about a certain group of unlawful people who just happen to be 'Roma'.

Ummmm come on, reread the first page of this thread. That's really not what's going on is it? There's a LOT of stereotyping.

The message isn't "There's a growing criminal group of Romani people"... it is very much "There is a growing Romani population, and that is bad because Romani people are criminals."

[BB4fan]

People tend to shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

Roma Gypsies are living rough in London and they are ransacking peoples belongings and using knives to rip open garbage bags and litter London.


Taxpayers are paying for this mess.

[empire]

under new labour, they gave more rights to thugs and robbers who beat people, and if they got back in, they would pass another daft law, that would give roma gypsies the right to do what they want, and you can't stop them from stealing your things, because the police will turn the tables on you, they won't suffer from the welfare cap because they are under a special status law, so that's equality for you, one get's but the other doesn't, the left wing in this country are so crooked, and delusional, that they are as bad as the greedy rich, but with a twist,

[Ammi]

...just to balance it up a bit, this vid shows travellers, including Romas, working very hard and getting through Uni and contributing a lot to their communities ..and despite any disadvantages../education wise they have had from early school years...

i-oRZYC1VAA

..it's like anything and everything in life, I think..'good and bad..'..and good and bad in every community...

..I don't really have much personal experience of Roma's in particular as I don't know of any who live or have lived locally...I have spoken to some when I've been in other countries though and I've always found that whether you buy the things they sell or try to sell or don't buy them, they're very nice, respectful and interesting people..and that's really all my personal experience, that I've had a few good conversations...

..with travellers in general though, we do have traveller's communities locally and always have had and many travelling children and families at the school..we have had a few not so great ones but really only a few..the majority are very hardworking, working 7 days a week in many cases and all working together as a family when the children aren't in school...they have their customs and traditions etc and although I don't always agree with all, I do understand them and their reasonings...


..sadly the media so often just wants to portray 'the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding..'...and give no balance to that..but no traveller that I have met personally has ever fitted that stereotype....


...anyways as Matt said, an old story and the main thing that I read from it is..'we have to tighten up and cut benefits..'...yeah right, so is that the stories agenda then....

[DemolitionRed]

...just to balance it up a bit, this vid shows travellers, including Romas, working very hard and getting through Uni and contributing a lot to their communities ..and despite any disadvantages../education wise they have had from early school years...

i-oRZYC1VAA

..it's like anything and everything in life, I think..'good and bad..'..and good and bad in every community...

..I don't really have much personal experience of Roma's in particular as I don't know of any who live or have lived locally...I have spoken to some when I've been in other countries though and I've always found that whether you buy the things they sell or try to sell or don't buy them, they're very nice, respectful and interesting people..and that's really all my personal experience, that I've had a few good conversations...

..with travellers in general though, we do have traveller's communities locally and always have had and many travelling children and families at the school..we have had a few not so great ones but really only a few..the majority are very hardworking, working 7 days a week in many cases and all working together as a family when the children aren't in school...they have their customs and traditions etc and although I don't always agree with all, I do understand them and their reasonings...


..sadly the media so often just wants to portray 'the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding..'...and give no balance to that..but no traveller that I have met personally has ever fitted that stereotype....


...anyways as Matt said, an old story and the main thing that I read from it is..'we have to tighten up and cut benefits..'...yeah right, so is that the stories agenda then....

Thanks Ammi :clap1:

[DemolitionRed]

People tend to shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

Roma Gypsies are living rough in London and they are ransacking peoples belongings and using knives to rip open garbage bags and litter London.


Taxpayers are paying for this mess.

And your second post said, "And London is filled with illegal migrants like this."

So are you talking about Romani's or are you talking about illegal migrants? Do you include legal Romani's in your post? The English Romani's? or just the ones who came in recently and don't have any authority to be here?

[Northern Monkey]

Yep.Anyone who's ever been to Greece,Italy,Spain or many other EU countries will tell you.The tour guides warn you about the Roma gypsies.They try pick pocketing and scamming you.They send their kids in to do it.Now they're coming here in their masses.Call it racist,xenophobic or whatever but you need to watch your pockets while you are in their vicinity.

[Livia]

Yep.Anyone who's ever been to Greece,Italy,Spain or many other EU countries will tell you.The tour guides warn you about the Roma gypsies.They try pick pocketing and scamming you.They send their kids in to do it.Now they're coming here in their masses.Call it racist,xenophobic or whatever but you need to watch your pockets while you are in their vicinity.

Quite right NM. There's a lot of stereotyping on this thread and it's mostly by people stereotyping those who've had contact with Romas by those who haven't. Get your wallet or your phone nicked by one of them and the tune will change, no doubt. It's okay for other countries to warn you about a group of people hell bent on ripping you off... but try it here and you're a racist.

[user104658]

There's a lot of stereotyping on this thread and it's mostly by people stereotyping those who've had contact with Romas by those who haven't.

:nono: Livia stop stereotyping people for stereotyping people who are being accused of stereotyping gypsies.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:nono: Livia stop stereotyping people for stereotyping people who are being accused of stereotyping gypsies.

yeah and they would probably rob your stereo and your typewriter too

:nono:

[Livia]

:nono: Livia stop stereotyping people for stereotyping people who are being accused of stereotyping gypsies.

I can't help it...