After you die what happens then?

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you believe that somehow something apart from oblivion happens then you need to say why you think that (ie what information that you have read etc has led you to believe this)

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/shakeitup/images/f/f2/Bye_Gravestone.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130329160659

Interestingly I went with my mum to put flowers on my dads grave (next door to my grandparents stone who died young in the 70s) and the dog was going mad sniffing around the grave -either she could smell my dad or it was just a dead thing she could smell.


The outlook for most of us from a Christian point of view is pretty bad:

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002540305/4836578407_hell_thrown_in_1__answer_2_xlarge.png

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html




Dont forget there was 13 billion years of oblivion before you were born...

[Niamh.]

I believe we just die and that's it. It's very hard for people (me included) to wrap their minds around not actually existing anymore because it feels like the world exists because you do, if you get what I mean :think: In a way we'll have eternal life because our bodies will break down and become part of the world in another form

[Ramsay]

Eh...I believe that pretty much, it's the exact same as before we were born, nothing. I used to be so scared about that idea but i'm now at peace with it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I believe we just die and that's it. It's very hard for people (me included) to wrap their minds around not actually existing anymore because it feels like the world exists because you do, if you get what I mean :think: In a way we'll have eternal life because our bodies will break down and become part of the world in another form

yes we are all made from particles from stars millions of years ago

[Livia]

I believe that when you die your energy... spirit if you like... goes on. I believe that the people we love never leave us and I know they are around me. Some people may think this is wishful thinking but I don't have to prove it to anyone else because I believe it. And I do believe it. Completely.

[Northern Monkey]

I believe we just die and that's it. It's very hard for people (me included) to wrap their minds around not actually existing anymore because it feels like the world exists because you do, if you get what I mean :think: In a way we'll have eternal life because our bodies will break down and become part of the world in another formYeah this for me too.We are recycled and become part of the Earth again.

[Livia]

yes we are all made from particles from stars millions of years ago

Our bodies are... yes.

[Niamh.]

what I do think though is that it's a shame that so many extreme religious people waste their lives hating people for ridiculous reasons and following rules that will make their lives more restricted and less fun when in reality, this is most likely it, our one shot at consciousness and if there was a God who created all this life and our consciousness wouldn't he/she want us to make the most of it anyway?

[Northern Monkey]

I believe that when you die your energy... spirit if you like... goes on. I believe that the people we love never leave us and I know they are around me. Some people may think this is wishful thinking but I don't have to prove it to anyone else because I believe it. And I do believe it. Completely.

I sometimes wish i believe this.I just....well don't

[LukeB]

I do believe you come back as something else

[Crimson Dynamo]

I do believe you come back as something else

read the first part of the op again and continue

[Kyle]

I believe I'll find out one day. That's it. Not much to think about really.

[Ashley.]

I don't really know and it's not something I like to think about.

How and When I die worries me more, I think.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I believe I'll find out one day. That's it. Not much to think about really.

well you wont will you

[Livia]

well you wont will you

He might.

How can you be so sure?

[Ashley.]

It's well and good to dream about the things that might happen. Heck, even scientists have talked about the possibilities. But death itself is inevitable. Why worry about something that we probably won't even know is happening when it happens?

[Livia]

No one's worrying, we're discussing the possibilities.

[Kyle]

well you wont will you

Semantics.

The point is I'm going to die so whatever happens happens. If there really is nothing I won't be around to give a sh*t and if there is something I'll see.

I won't hold my breath mind you as I'm not a spiritual person in any way, shape or form but hey ho I'm not going to categorically write off the chances of anything else. :shrug:

[Ashley.]

No one's worrying, we're discussing the possibilities.

I was just answering the OP.

[Kazanne]

I believe that when you die your energy... spirit if you like... goes on. I believe that the people we love never leave us and I know they are around me. Some people may think this is wishful thinking but I don't have to prove it to anyone else because I believe it. And I do believe it. Completely.

This ^ I also believe that we have the ability to keep on learning until we die,if there is nothing,then really,what was the point?

[Crimson Dynamo]

He might.

How can you be so sure?

i am as sure as i am about my ability to fly to mars in a cardboard box i got from the spar

[Livia]

i am as sure as i am about my ability to fly to mars in a cardboard box i got from the spar

No you're not. You have no more proof than I do! I'm willing to accept that there is a chance I may be wrong. You should try it, LT.

[arista]

Your Light goes out
like turning off a Computer.

You go no other place at all
you are sadly DEAD

[Livia]

Your Light goes out
like turning off a Computer.

You go no other place at all
you are sadly DEAD

Again... you have no more proof than I do.

[Kazanne]

No you're not. You have no more proof than I do! I'm willing to accept that there is a chance I may be wrong. You should try it, LT.

LT is doomed Livia,Peter has a one way ticket for him at those gates :laugh::laugh:

[Niamh.]

This ^ I also believe that we have the ability to keep on learning until we die,if there is nothing,then really,what was the point?

Does there have to be a point other than we can?

[Cherie]

I'm going to come back and haunt LT woooooo

I swing between oblivion and other things however. I had a spooky experience a few weeks back, I accompanied my aunt whose husband died a few years ago to the hospital for an operation, when I got the call from the nurse that she was in recovery and to go up to the ward where she would be overnight I walked past theatre where she was and I got a strong smell of my Uncle, he had a very distinctive smell as he always used a particular soap and aftershave, there was no one in the corridor with me and it vanished just as suddenly as it came, when I told my aunt she said she was not surprised as she had seen him standing in the corner of the room when she had a previous op .....

[smudgie]

Hopefully when I die I will go and meet my dad again, otherwise if means I have gone to hell to visit mother.:shrug:

[Jessica.]

I believe we just die and that's it. It's very hard for people (me included) to wrap their minds around not actually existing anymore because it feels like the world exists because you do, if you get what I mean :think: In a way we'll have eternal life because our bodies will break down and become part of the world in another form

This.

[Kazanne]

Does there have to be a point other than we can?

I think there is a point to our lives,yes

[MB.]

Feeding time for the worms

[Vanessa]

Hopefully i will see my loved ones again. :love:

[Crimson Dynamo]

No you're not. You have no more proof than I do! I'm willing to accept that there is a chance I may be wrong. You should try it, LT.

there are endless cul de sacs you go down when you leave the possibility for this and that but as there is not a shred of credible evidence to suggest this and masses to refute it then its pointless to consider it.

[Niamh.]

I think there is a point to our lives,yes

That's not what I asked though, I said does there have to be a point not do you believe there is one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think there is a point to our lives,yes

why did i get this one then?


i want a refund

[Kazanne]

why did i get this one then?


i want a refund

lol,it's a test LT,so be careful:hehe:

[Kyle]

This ^ I also believe that we have the ability to keep on learning until we die,if there is nothing,then really,what was the point?

Learning isn't something exclusive to Homo Sapiens.

[Kazanne]

That's not what I asked though, I said does there have to be a point not do you believe there is one.

There doesn't HAVE to be a point,I believe there IS

[Kazanne]

Learning isn't something exclusive to Homo Sapiens.

I know,and everything dies,that was my point,Hello Kyle btw:wavey:

[LaLaLand]

Hard to say really but I like to think you start over someone/someplace else (sort of reincarnation-ish) as a birth. The idea of "nothing" boggles me.

[Kyle]

I know,and everything dies,that was my point,Hello Kyle btw:wavey:

Hello Kazanne. I've missed you :love:

[Niamh.]

There doesn't HAVE to be a point,I believe there IS

Isn't just having a life to live in the first place a point though? :think:

[Cherie]

Anyone from the unbelievers side care to comment on my post, it's so TIBB to just ignore the unexplained :idc:

[Jessica.]

Anyone from the unbelievers side care to comment on my post, it's so TIBB to just ignore the unexplained :idc:

I'm a believer. :) I believe that when we die we are worm food, that's it.
In reference to your story, it's not unheard of to hallucinate while under the influence of strong medications or anaesthetics, it's not unheard of for someone you haven't met to use the same deodorant or cologne as someone you knew before either. :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm going to come back and haunt LT woooooo

I swing between oblivion and other things however. I had a spooky experience a few weeks back, I accompanied my aunt whose husband died a few years ago to the hospital for an operation, when I got the call from the nurse that she was in recovery and to go up to the ward where she would be overnight I walked past theatre where she was and I got a strong smell of my Uncle, he had a very distinctive smell as he always used a particular soap and aftershave, there was no one in the corridor with me and it vanished just as suddenly as it came, when I told my aunt she said she was not surprised as she had seen him standing in the corner of the room when she had a previous op .....

I am afraid anecdotal evidence like this is useless as there are so many reasons why this could have happened and why people can be fooled


The best way to see it is

either what you say happened did happen and all known science up to this date is wrong

or

you and her were mistaken

[Cherie]

I'm a believer. :) I believe that when we die we are worm food, that's it.
In reference to your story, it's not unheard of to hallucinate while under the influence of strong medications or anaesthetics, it's not unheard of for someone you haven't met to use the same deodorant or cologne as someone you knew before either. :)

I wasn't under anaesthetic and neither was she when she saw him it was while she was waiting for a local anaesthetic, also the smell came and went in a breath, there was no one else in the corridor which stretched out on either side of me so if someone had just walked in front of me I would have seen them :shrug:

[smudgie]

Anyone from the unbelievers side care to comment on my post, it's so TIBB to just ignore the unexplained :idc:

I am not an actual unbeliever Cherie.
I have seen/felt things over the years.
I can well believe that loved ones can come back and help you make the journey.

[Cherie]

I am not an actual unbeliever Cherie.
I have seen/felt things over the years.
I can well believe that loved ones can come back and help you make the journey.

It was quite bizarre Smudgie, if the smell lingered I would have brushed it off, it was just momentary which really threw me

[Niamh.]

I wasn't under anaesthetic and neither was she when she saw him it was while she was waiting for a local anaesthetic, also the smell came and went in a breath, there was no one else in the corridor which stretched out on either side of me so if someone had just walked in front of me I would have seen them :shrug:

But if "Ghosts" were able to appear or let you get a whiff of their aroma, why wouldn't they be more than just that? Like why not appear to the whole family at once are give a proper message etc?

[Kyle]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

[Cherie]

But if "Ghosts" were able to appear or let you get a whiff of their aroma, why wouldn't they be more than just that? Like why not appear to the whole family at once are give a proper message etc?

What about poltergeists though there are a lot of unexplained things that go on...I don't know I don't really believe 100 per cent in an afterlife but...:laugh:

[Jay.]

Your Light goes out
like turning off a Computer.

You go no other place at all
you are sadly DEAD

who says that poetry is a dying art?

[smudgie]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

:laugh:OMG Kyle....I thought about that when my father-in-law died.
Not bothered about anyone else watching to be honest:joker:

[Niamh.]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

:laugh2:

What about poltergeists though there are a lot of unexplained things that go on...I don't know I don't really believe 100 per cent in an afterlife but...:laugh:

mmm I don't know, i like to try and keep an open mind but I think that involves scrutinizing all these kind of occurrences. I'd still be too afraid to stay in an old "haunted" house :fan:

[Cherie]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

What about poltergeists though there are a lot of unexplained things that go on...I don't know I don't really believe 100 per cent in an afterlife but...:laugh:

cherie you do realise that things like that were invented by humans to entertain, frighten etc

they are not real

[Vanessa]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

D:D:D:

[Crimson Dynamo]

"oh well LT would you stay in that castle a mile down the road on your own after watching a horror film?"


:dog:

[Cherie]

cherie you do realise that things like that were invented by humans to entertain, frighten etc

they are not real

Really, you mean that headless horseman that clip clips past my house every night is one of the neighbours :fist:

[mizzy25]

When I die my body will be left for use in medical science for up to 3 years.

[Brother Leon]

Only one way to truly know really...

[Kyle]

:laugh:OMG Kyle....I thought about that when my father-in-law died.
Not bothered about anyone else watching to be honest:joker:

Proper Yorkshire lass thar knows :joker:

[Niamh.]

Cherie this just popped up on my news feed on FB and it made me think of you :fan:

http://www.evoke.ie/extra/woman-sees-dead-grandfather-kiss-her-unborn-baby-in-4d-scan

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its no wonder that religion catches on in civilisation with the old

no when you die its all lovely line

oh but if you dont believe you will be tortured for eternity


you could not make that sh1t up

oh....someone did


:facepalm:

[joeysteele]

I don't believe and don't want to believe death ends everything.
I go with Livia mostly in her post earlier and her view of our/an energy force carrying on and I can hold with the energy of those connected to that energy being gathered to it when others die.

Kazanne makes another good point as to what is the point if there is nothing after death.
Everything we do, we need careful planning to do so and create, looking at the wonder of the human body and how it is made up, leaves it hard to believe there was/is no creative force behind it and all just happened by accident.

I have had things happen I cannot explain away simply, however I can also be sceptical as to life after death.
It cannot be proven or disproven there is nothing or that there is something, I myself keep an open mind on the issue and would hope there is more, whatever that may be.

[Cherie]

Cherie this just popped up on my news feed on FB and it made me think of you :fan:

http://www.evoke.ie/extra/woman-sees-dead-grandfather-kiss-her-unborn-baby-in-4d-scan

Lol :joker:

[Niamh.]

I don't believe and don't want to believe death ends everything.
I go with Livia mostly in her post earlier and her view of our/an energy force carrying on and I can hold with the energy of those connected to that energy being gathered to it when others die.

Kazanne makes another good point as to what is the point if there is nothing after death.
Everything we do, we need careful planning to do so and create, looking at the wonder of the human body and how it is made up, leaves it hard to believe there was/is no creative force behind it and all just happened by accident.

I have had things happen I cannot explain away simply, however I can also be sceptical as to life after death.
It cannot be proven or disproven there is nothing or that there is something, I myself keep an open mind on the issue and would hope there is more, whatever that may be.

The point is life, this life. isn't that enough?

[Kazanne]

Isn't just having a life to live in the first place a point though? :think:

What point though if there is nothing at the end ? we get wiser as we get older ,then we die :shrug: I think life is a test and we have several ,it's hard to explain without getting really deep into things,plus I don't fancy being called the Tibb nutter:cheer2: well not out loud anyway:hehe:

[Jessica.]

I agree with Niamh, the only point in life is to live and be alive. :shrug: There's nobody guiding that or plotting your life out, you're just born, you live and then you die.

[Kazanne]

Its no wonder that religion catches on in civilisation with the old

no when you die its all lovely line

oh but if you dont believe you will be tortured for eternity


you could not make that sh1t up

oh....someone did


:facepalm:

This could easily be hell LT,lets face it ,it's not a nice place sometimes,scarey even, and you don't have to be old to believe in something greater than us.

[joeysteele]

The point is life, this life. isn't that enough?

Yes it is.
However the connections we make, the feelings we develop for those in our lives, all that bonding, for me it seems a total waste for all that to just be gone.
I accept the view we are always seemingly learning as to living but learning for what purpose, is where I can leave the door open to belief in more to come.

People who die young, who are inspirational and do so much in their short lives, for me that should mean and count for much, this life is not a set life, it can be long or short, often very short too.
That is another reason why I like the thought of something carrying on.

[Kyle]

What point though if there is nothing at the end ? we get wiser as we get older ,then we die :shrug: I think life is a test and we have several ,it's hard to explain without getting really deep into things,plus I don't fancy being called the Tibb nutter:cheer2: well not out loud anyway:hehe:

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you understand how life on earth evolved and the basic chemical make up of the universe and then add 13 billion years its not too hard to see how we got here

but there is no point or meaning


gravity made the ball we live on and entropy will destroy it

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

indeed

today 20,000 children will die

and tomorrow

and the next day

and the next

and the next


well you see where I am going here

[Jessica.]

Yes it is.
However the connections we make, the feelings we develop for those in our lives, all that bonding, for me it seems a total waste for all that to just be gone.
I accept the view we are always seemingly learning as to living but learning for what purpose, is where I can leave the door open to belief in more to come.

People who die young, who are inspirational and do so much in their short lives, for me that should mean and count for much, this life is not a set life, it can be long or short, often very short too.
That is another reason why I like the thought of something carrying on.

The reason humans make strong bonds with each other is the same reason why elephants bond and live in groups. It's the same reason why Lions live in groups and meerkats and every other social creature. There is safety in numbers and also nature and evolution are just nourishing the perfect conditions to reproduce, stronger and healthier as time goes on. So yeah, every part of scientific research will tell you that he life cycle of basically every living thing is the same, it's born, it lives, reproduces, dies. :shrug:

[joeysteele]

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would have asked your granny

1. How much physics she had studied?

2. what evidence did she have for such a statement?

[joeysteele]

I would have asked your granny

1. How much physics she had studied?

2. what evidence did she have for such a statement?

Her own and don't be disrespectful as she is not here anymore now.

She never claimed to be intelligent or all knowing, she had a strong religious belief that she never pushed down anyones throats but tried to make some sense of why we are here and what life may be about.

No need at all for your inappropriate sarcasm as to her studying physics.

You equally have nothing but your view that there is nothing, you have not a scrap evidence for that just as those who do and choose to believe in something haven't either.

[Kyle]

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

Joey you are a good three times over smarter than me so when I see you say something I take good notice of it.

I understand what you've said above but to me that addresses things from the point of view of the people in the position of power I.e the rich and healthy. It's their responsibility to look after them or see to them.

How would you personally reconcile that view to those who are poor and of ill health? Do you think it make them feel better about their lot if they were to know their poor circumstances were to test those who were their betters?

[Kyle]

And just to add that is nevertheless an admirable philosophy from your grandmother Joey. It reminds me very much of a chivalric code where the strong are dutybound to become the protectorate of those who are unable to defend themselves.

[joeysteele]

Joey you are a good three times over smarter than me so when I see you say something I take good notice of it.

I understand what you've said above but to me that addresses things from the point of view of the people in the position of power I.e the rich and healthy. It's their responsibility to look after them or see to them.

How would you personally reconcile that view to those who are poor and of ill health? Do you think it make them feel better about their lot if they were to know their poor circumstances were to test those who were their betters?

I am not saying the descriptive terms used were right Kyle, they were things that were said from her thinking as to making sense of life and the way life is as to human beings.
They were things that I can take on board from someone I adored, who I saw as a mentor really.

Your points are equally valid and the simple answer to the question really is no one can say 100% for sure as to anything as to life after death and it is something we will never really know or learn about until we die.

If there is more afterwards than we will know that when we die, it there isn't then there it is, nothing to know further.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Her own and don't be disrespectful as she is not here anymore now.

She never claimed to be intelligent or all knowing, she had a strong religious belief that she never pushed down anyones throats but tried to make some sense of why we are here and what life may be about.

No need at all for your inappropriate sarcasm as to her studying physics.

You equally have nothing but your view that there is nothing, you have not a scrap evidence for that just as those who do and choose to believe in something haven't either.

I wasnt being sarcastic i was just responding. being dead does not magically make you somehow right or wise

It just sounds like normal anecdotal stuff old people used to say in a vacuum of actual scientific evidence and knowledge

as for your last paragraph may i point you to the best scientific knowledge we have over the last 1000 odd years

its kind of persuasive

[Kazanne]

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

Not at the same time,no,but I think we do experience them all
I think we all get different tests Kyle at different times so we ALL experience all those things, for example we all get a life of Riley etc ,at some point,it's how we deal with them that's the test ,we will get good and bad lives on our journey.
Not at the same time,no,but I think we do experience them all on our way .

[Kyle]

I am not saying the descriptive terms used were right Kyle, they were things that were said from her thinking as to making sense of life and the way life is as to human beings.
They were things that I can take on board from someone I adored, who I saw as a mentor really.

Your points are equally valid and the simple answer to the question really is no one can say 100% for sure as to anything as to life after death and it is something we will never really know or learn about until we die.

If there is more afterwards than we will know that when we die, it there isn't then there it is, nothing to know further.

Agree completely. I would not be satisfied with anybody telling me they knew definitively what happens on either side of the debate.

[Kazanne]

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

:clap1: Wow Joey,so close to my thinking.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Agree completely. I would not be satisfied with anybody telling me they knew definitively what happens on either side of the debate.

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

[Kyle]

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

I'd be more likely to err on the side of nothing happening simply because I look at life from a naturalistic viewpoint and don't see any form of afterlife as necessary but until someone can somehow categorically tell us what happens I don't see the need to clam up and claim definitely nothing happens.

Even if the statistical probability is close to the one you put.

[Northern Monkey]

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?
As long as he was'nt bashing one out.Don't wanna be cleaning up ectoplasm aswell as spunk:laugh:

[Kyle]

As long as he was'nt bashing one out.Don't wanna be cleaning up ectoplasm aswell as spunk:laugh:

:laugh: aye no bother, you can always call the ghostbusters

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'd be more likely to err on the side of nothing happening simply because I look at life from a naturalistic viewpoint and don't see any form of afterlife as necessary but until someone can somehow categorically tell us what happens I don't see the need to clam up and claim definitely nothing happens.

Even if the statistical probability is close to the one you put.

I think we can safely say that it is highly unlikely based on what we know, hence the reason no one is wasting any time researching it.

also the fact that it arose from religion tells us all we need now anyroad

[the truth]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;8191673]what I do think though is that it's a shame that so many extreme religious people waste their lives hating people for ridiculous reasons and following rules that will make their lives more restricted and less fun when in reality, this is most likely it, our one shot at consciousness and if there was a God who created all this life and our consciousness wouldn't he/she want us to make the most of it anyway?[/QUOTE)

generalized irrelevant nonsense theres loads of different religions and belief systems and youre lumping them all as identicial , stick to the topic:nono:

[DemolitionRed]

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

[the truth]

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

our bodies feed the earth so in that sense we are reborn

our spirit also lives on in the people we leave behind

our little progress has made us arrogant and complacent , religion and Christinaity especially is about moral dilemnas and belief systems as much as anything else....as we lose those we lose our planet as we lose our values....despite claims we understand everything we cannot create life and we still cannot comprehend many things including infinity

[the truth]

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

energy in space is seen for millions of years so maybe youre right

[Jessica.]

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. :joker: We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. :joker: We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

:clap1:

[JoshBB]

I don't think you can 100% prove what happens... but I think there's like a 95% chance that what it's like for us when dead is what it's like for before we were born.. nothing. But not 'nothing' in a scary/boring way.. I don't think we'll even know we're dead. Or be able to form thoughts.

[AnnieK]

I have no idea but in the hours before my mum died she sat up lifted her arms as if to hug someone and smiled the most beautiful peaceful smile. She had been unable to communicate or even open her eyes for days and she hadn't been able to sit up for around 2 weeks. I would love to think someone had come to take her spirit to a better place....although my head tells me different, that's what my heart believes. I see no benefit in ridiculing or belittling people's belief. Death is the final separation from loved ones so if people want to believe they will meet again, where's the harm in that. I don't care what can be proven, disproven or anything else....if people take comfort in something in this hell hole of a life, what's the problem?.

[smudgie]

I have no idea but in the hours before my mum died she sat up lifted her arms as if to hug someone and smiled the most beautiful peaceful smile. She had been unable to communicate or even open her eyes for days and she hadn't been able to sit up for around 2 weeks. I would love to think someone had come to take her spirit to a better place....although my head tells me different, that's what my heart believes. I see no benefit in ridiculing or belittling people's belief. Death is the final separation from loved ones so if people want to believe they will meet again, where's the harm in that. I don't care what can be proven, disproven or anything else....if people take comfort in something in this hell hole of a life, what's the problem?.

My sentiments exactly Annie.
Both my mil and my dad were talking to people for a day or two before they died, both intelligent and lucid people as well:shrug:

[Niamh.]

generalized irrelevant nonsense theres loads of different religions and belief systems and youre lumping them all as identicial , stick to the topic:nono:

Not generalizing at all darling, I did say Extreme religious people, read my posts properly :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have no idea but in the hours before my mum died she sat up lifted her arms as if to hug someone and smiled the most beautiful peaceful smile. She had been unable to communicate or even open her eyes for days and she hadn't been able to sit up for around 2 weeks. I would love to think someone had come to take her spirit to a better place....although my head tells me different, that's what my heart believes. I see no benefit in ridiculing or belittling people's belief. Death is the final separation from loved ones so if people want to believe they will meet again, where's the harm in that. I don't care what can be proven, disproven or anything else....if people take comfort in something in this hell hole of a life, what's the problem?.

no problem but lets not think that its factual and stick to the science

its the science that has doubled the life expectancy in 100 years and not anecdotal wishful thinking

[DemolitionRed]

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. :joker: We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

If energy can't be created or destroyed then it has to be infinite :blush:

[MTVN]

Few thousand years in purgatory first I expect, imagine that will resemble a doctor's waiting room where I have to browse the same old magazines time and time again. All be worth it though when my sins are atoned for and I ascend that shiny staircase to my new mansion in the sky

[Ninastar]

why dont you find out and tell us

[TomC]

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. :joker: We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

No he's right, energy can't be created or destroyed and I presume is dissipated from our bodies when we die.

[Ninastar]

No one knows for sure and to say you know for a fact is naive and just plain stupid.

[TomC]

No one knows for sure and to say you know for a fact is naive and just plain stupid.

Who are you addressing?

[Ninastar]

Who are you addressing?

anyone who states their opinion as fact :shrug:

[TomC]

anyone who states their opinion as fact :shrug:

Not me then?

[Liam-]

I don't really have an opinion on what actually happens, but I hope that your spirit can live on after your body has stopped working, after all they do say that the human body is just a vessel for the soul to live in and once the body is done, the spirit just roams free.. I'm not scared of death or what it brings, but a little romanticising never hurt anyone imo.

[Jessica.]

If energy can't be created or destroyed then it has to be infinite :blush:

Most of the energy is used up from creating heat and the organs use all of their energy up until they stop working. Once the person dies the rest of the energy is used up by whatever happens next, be it decomposition or burning. What you imagine doesn't count as fact, what I said is fact.

[Jessica.]

No he's right, energy can't be created or destroyed and I presume is dissipated from our bodies when we die.

Yeah exactly, decomposition takes energy etc.. :)

[TomC]

Yeah exactly, decomposition takes energy etc.. :)

Sorry perhaps I jumped into the conversation without fully understanding what everyone's viewpoint was!

[DemolitionRed]

Most of the energy is used up from creating heat and the organs use all of their energy up until they stop working. Once the person dies the rest of the energy is used up by whatever happens next, be it decomposition or burning. What you imagine doesn't count as fact, what I said is fact.


I fully understand about decomposition and metabolic energy. What about electrical energy? What about 'action potential' within that electrical energy?

When we are dead, we are dead and the energy we have carried during life, changes (as energy does) and works at decomposing us. It then feeds the plants, the insects, the earth. Everything revolves around a cycle of energy.

You say energy is used up? are you therefore saying that energy then dies?

[JoshBB]

Few thousand years in purgatory first I expect, imagine that will resemble a doctor's waiting room where I have to browse the same old magazines time and time again. All be worth it though when my sins are atoned for and I ascend that shiny staircase to my new mansion in the sky

Sorry, but what's purgatory? I'm not familiar with the concept completely.

Is it like Hell but it only lasts a certain amount of time? or literally an in-between before heaven/hell?

[Jay.]

I don't really like to think about it,

[Marsh.]

I don't really like to think about it,

I love Jay in debates. :joker:

[Ammi]

..none of us know and if we did know then we wouldn't be in a position to say we knew...


...(I think..)..that 'the point of life' is that if we're really, really lucky, we won't die in that a few people we have known and whose lives we have touched, may still carry us in their hearts..that somehow we may have made a positive impact which will continue through those we have loved on earth...if that happens...if that 'energy' or 'spirit' is carried, then it will be different to how it's carried and 'felt' in everyone, individual to them, like everything is individual to a person...I can 'feel' my dad when I need to..when I need him to be here because everything he was and who he was is within me and there when I need it...he won't 'truly die' because he loved so much and that love stays within people in his life...

[Ammi]

..makes sense to me anyway..and I think that's the thing as well...people will make their own sense...

[Kyle]

..none of us know and if we did know then we wouldn't be in a position to say we knew...


...(I think..)..that 'the point of life' is that if we're really, really lucky, we won't die in that a few people we have known and whose lives we have touched, may still carry us in their hearts..that somehow we may have made a positive impact which will continue through those we have loved on earth...if that happens...if that 'energy' or 'spirit' is carried, then it will be different to how it's carried and 'felt' in everyone, individual to them, like everything is individual to a person...I can 'feel' my dad when I need to..when I need him to be here because everything he was and who he was is within me and there when I need it...he won't 'truly die' because he loved so much and that love stays within people in his life...

Your post reminds me of the point Anne Hathaway's character makes in Interstellar. Love is the one thing that transcends space and time.

[Ammi]

Your post reminds me of the point Anne Hathaway's character makes in Interstellar. Love is the one thing that transcends space and time.

..I guess that's a good way of putting it Kyle..obviously it's deeper and lots of points or meanings to life but 'love' would be the quick answer..(for me..)..and I guess in a balance to that, probably 'hate' also...you know, those 'evil' people that leave the earth...when they leave..'their point' and how they're carried can be mostly pain, which would outweigh the love they have brought to some../people who have loved them...

[Ammi]

..when I feel lost, I feel my dad because I often need to feel him...how I feel him is for no one else to judge because we all feel everything differently and it's only for people whose lives he touched to feel...

[Ammi]

..crikey, this is a bit heavy for 5am and I need to go and get ready...

[MTVN]

Sorry, but what's purgatory? I'm not familiar with the concept completely.

Is it like Hell but it only lasts a certain amount of time? or literally an in-between before heaven/hell?

It's an inbetween (not as bad as hell but pretty horrible) where you are purified of your sins before entering heaven. It's a Catholic idea but its controversial because its never actually mentioned in the Bible and its one of the main things Protestant reformers attacked about the Church: they saw it mainly as a way to make money because people would try and reduce the time they have to spend in purgatory by donations etc.

[Ammi]

..it's a bit like being put in a holding cell while they have a little chat about it ...no actually they weren't too bad so we'll give them the wings.../nope, did you not see them last Friday../grim is all and looking at Mrs Thomson getting dressed through those binoculars...it would be like having your death pad decided by a SD thread debate...

[Kyle]

I don't think it's part of Catholic doctrine anymore though is it?

[Jamie89]

I believe we just die and that's it. It's very hard for people (me included) to wrap their minds around not actually existing anymore because it feels like the world exists because you do, if you get what I mean :think: In a way we'll have eternal life because our bodies will break down and become part of the world in another form

Exactly this for me.

And I don't think that people who believe in an afterlife should have to explain themselves. Even without evidence, people can believe what they want even if it doesn't make sense to us.

[user104658]

Ashes or worm food, sadly.

I understand what people mean when they say it "seems like such a waste" or that they "don't want to believe" that there isn't more but... Well... Since when did us not wanting to believe something mean it isn't the truth?

We can live on temporarily in the hearts and minds of those who knew us. If we had historical impact, we can live on for thousands of years in history (though likely a slightly twisted version of us). Beyond that? Eventually, I'm afraid, all of it is going to be gone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one knows for sure and to say you know for a fact is naive and just plain stupid.

yes but you do get that its not 50/50?

[Cherie]

Ashes or worm food, sadly.

I understand what people mean when they say it "seems like such a waste" or that they "don't want to believe" that there isn't more but... Well... Since when did us not wanting to believe something mean it isn't the truth?

We can live on temporarily in the hearts and minds of those who knew us. If we had historical impact, we can live on for thousands of years in history (though likely a slightly twisted version of us). Beyond that? Eventually, I'm afraid, all of it is going to be gone.

Yes I believe I will live on :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes I believe I will live on :smug:

why would you want to anyway?

[Cherie]

why would you want to anyway?

I'd like to think I did enough in my life that people would remember me, whats wrong with that :shrug:

[Kyle]

I'll remember you. You always popped my Cherie :love:

[user104658]

Yes I believe I will live on :smug:
I believe that - - - I - - - will live on. None of you petty humans will though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

my heart goes on and on

[Cherie]

I'll remember you. You always popped my Cherie :love:

I believe that - - - I - - - will live on. None of you petty humans will though.

my heart goes on and on

:laugh:

My Dad died when I was quite young, my eldest son is named after him and he looks a bit like him, my niece looks a lot like me, you can't kill off genes so even if you don't have children yourself your genes and spirit can live on in your siblings children, but that is a whole other debate I guess.

[user104658]

[emoji23]

My Dad died when I was quite young, my eldest son is named after him and he looks a bit like him, my niece looks a lot like me, you can't kill off genes so even if you don't have children yourself your genes and spirit can live on in your siblings children, but that is a whole other debate I guess.
I don't necessarily disagree that people can live on in each other but...

... One day humans (and earth, and the entire galaxy) will ALL be gone. So maybe we can live on for a long time but... "forever" is something different. Infinity is a terrifying concept to me, I don't WANT perpetual existence! It sounds exhausting! If it is real, is there an 'opt out" checkbox?

[waterhog]

when I die _ so will the awful poetry on internet forums.

[Jake.]

Eh...I believe that pretty much, it's the exact same as before we were born, nothing. I used to be so scared about that idea but i'm now at peace with it.

How did you get at peace with it? I'm at a similar stage myself lol

[kirklancaster]

when I die _ so will the awful poetry on internet forums.

NO!!! Not whilever there are Ghost Writers Hog. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

I don't think it's part of Catholic doctrine anymore though is it?

I don't think so, I think that whole purgatory bit was a bit of a money making racket, you used to be able to pay the Church to get your dead relatives out of purgatory mmmhhmm

[Kyle]

I don't think so, I think that whole purgatory bit was a bit of a money making racket, you used to be able to pay the Church to get your dead relatives out of purgatory mmmhhmm

I did not know that. :shocked:

[joeysteele]

I don't think so, I think that whole purgatory bit was a bit of a money making racket, you used to be able to pay the Church to get your dead relatives out of purgatory mmmhhmm

You paid for special masses, you are right although the congregation was always asked to pray for the souls in purgatory too.

[Niamh.]

You paid for special masses, you are right although the congregation was always asked to pray for the souls in purgatory too.

money making racket.

[Ashley.]

I think, what scares me the most, is being aware that I'm dead. Endlessly floating through darkness, all your emotions and senses are gone, you can't scream for help, you have no ability for memory... you'd just be in darkness for eternity.

But I can't worry too much about it. I've heard that as you get older, you become more accepting of death. So I'm just wasting my time now I think.

Maybe we just dream forever like we do when we're sleeping. Who knows.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think, what scares me the most, is being aware that I'm dead. Endlessly floating through darkness, all your emotions and senses are gone, you can't scream for help, you have no ability for memory... you'd just be in darkness for eternity.

But I can't worry too much about it. I've heard that as you get older, you become more accepting of death. So I'm just wasting my time now I think.

Maybe we just dream forever like we do when we're sleeping. Who knows.

when you sleep you dont dream its only in a brief few seconds when we are waking up do we dream

[kirklancaster]

money making racket.

Absolutely. Akin to extorting money through intimidation really.

[kirklancaster]

I did not know that. :shocked:

Nor me Kyle.

[Ramsay]

How did you get at peace with it? I'm at a similar stage myself lol

I'm not sure :laugh: i used to think about it constantly and i'd start to have panic attacks and everything if i sat on my own and thought too much about the thought of "nothing". but i kind of just realised that it's a part of life and it happens to everyone eventually...unless you're nathan from misfits of course! plus, i've seen a'lot of death the last 2 years so i've become kind of numb to it all i suppose...

[Crimson Dynamo]

around 6300 people die every hour of the day and night

[MTVN]

I don't think it's part of Catholic doctrine anymore though is it?

I think purgatory is still Catholic doctrine, that's why people are still encouraged to pray for the souls of those who have died

The concept of limbo is no longer taught by the Church though which was supposedly where babies who had not been baptised ended up

[Ramsay]

The concept of limbo is no longer taught by the Church though which was supposedly where babies who had not been baptised ended up

The **** i've heard of what used to happen over here about stuff like this is sickening. i don't even want to talk about it as the thought of it makes so angry.

[Kyle]

I think purgatory is still Catholic doctrine, that's why people are still encouraged to pray for the souls of those who have died

The concept of limbo is no longer taught by the Church though which was supposedly where babies who had not been baptised ended up

Ah that's right I got the two mixed up.

[Jake.]

I'm not sure :laugh: i used to think about it constantly and i'd start to have panic attacks and everything if i sat on my own and thought too much about the thought of "nothing". but i kind of just realised that it's a part of life and it happens to everyone eventually...unless you're nathan from misfits of course! plus, i've seen a'lot of death the last 2 years so i've become kind of numb to it all i suppose...

thanks :love:

and very sorry about the latter, you're a strong guy

[lostalex]

you rot in a box.

[Shaun]

Stuff

[Johnnyuk123]

Its no wonder that religion catches on in civilisation with the old

no when you die its all lovely line

oh but if you dont believe you will be tortured for eternity


you could not make that sh1t up

oh....someone did


:facepalm:

On the plus side millions of people each year take vacations to very hot sunny resorts so i'm pretty sure they will love it down there.:cheer2:

[Johnnyuk123]

Me personally... I believe that when you die that's it.

[Kizzy]

I have to say whether it's just wishful thinking or whatever that you become an essence, spirit, and that 'souls' are a thing...for me it's feasible as in it can't be disproved and therefore there may come a time when we could know one way or the other, so for now I'm firmly in the yes camp.

[Cherie]

you rot in a box.

Not for the cremated :hee:

[Kyle]

I have to say whether it's just wishful thinking or whatever that you become an essence, spirit, and that 'souls' are a thing...for me it's feasible as in it can't be disproved and therefore there may come a time when we could know one way or the other, so for now I'm firmly in the yes camp.

The problem with that line of thinking is that many things can be feasible as they cannot be categorically disproved.

Things like Nessie, Chupacabra, A funny post by leather trumpet; just because we have not seen these things as of yet or cannot categorically prove they do not exist would not automatically make them 'feasible' in my eyes.

That being said though, by all means though believe in them. If it makes people feel better or they genuinely feel through their own personal experience that it warrents belief then fair enough, have at it I say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have to say whether it's just wishful thinking or whatever that you become an essence, spirit, and that 'souls' are a thing...for me it's feasible as in it can't be disproved and therefore there may come a time when we could know one way or the other, so for now I'm firmly in the yes camp.

Not being able to be totally disproved is frankly irrelevant and does not make something real

It is evidence that is needed.

If there is none, well you know the drill.

[Livia]

If I die before LT I'm coming back to haunt him.

[kirklancaster]

Not being able to be totally disproved is frankly irrelevant and does not make something real

It is evidence that is needed.

If there is none, well you know the drill.

There have been and still are, lots of examples of life after death; Ronald Reagan while he was president and Dick Cheney now for two. :laugh:

[Vanessa]

I think dying probably feels like you're constantly dreaming. But you don't know that you are. Must be really weird.

[Niamh.]

I think dying probably feels like you're constantly dreaming. But you don't know that you are. Must be really weird.

It wouldn't feel like anything though because your brain would no longer be functioning :laugh:

[Vanessa]

It wouldn't feel like anything though because your brain would no longer be functioning :laugh:

I know, but it would feel like you're in another dimension or something. I do believe the soul is still alive after death, so maybe we still feel something. :think:

[Niamh.]

I know, but it would feel like you're in another dimension or something. I do believe the soul is still alive after death, so maybe we still feel something. :think:

I guess if you believe that but from what we know all our feelings come from our brain so if that's longer functioning then we won't feel anything anymore which i don't see as an awful thing either, i mean you won't know anything about it anyway

[Cherie]

I'm going to come back and haunt LT woooooo

..

If I die before LT I'm coming back to haunt him.


I'll fight you for it :idc:

[Livia]

I'll fight you for it :idc:

LOL... Opps sorry Cherie, missed that. You can take him... or we could team up. Two ghostly women driving him mental has got to be more satisfying than one.

[Kizzy]

Not being able to be totally disproved is frankly irrelevant and does not make something real

It is evidence that is needed.

If there is none, well you know the drill.

Who said it did?... All I am saying is my mind is open to the possibility, and if one day there is evidence, concrete definitive proof I will accept that and be satisfied.
It doesn't naturally follow in this instance that no evidence means that the afterlife doesn't exist, simply that our science hasn't found it :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who said it did?... All I am saying is my mind is open to the possibility, and if one day there is evidence, concrete definitive proof I will accept that and be satisfied.
It doesn't naturally follow in this instance that no evidence means that the afterlife doesn't exist, simply that our science hasn't found it :)

yes but you do realise you can say that about anything

that in fact we are all in a dream of a massive transexual hippo, that baked beans are the number cause of cancer, that David Cameron is an alien, that invisible elephants are what cause tooth decay, that mountains are infact a type of turtle..

[Cherie]

LOL... Opps sorry Cherie, missed that. You can take him... or we could team up. Two ghostly women driving him mental has got to be more satisfying than one.

I'm in let's rendezvous at the pearly gates and we can head on from there...btw what is that yellow thing masquerading as your avatar :eek:

[Livia]

I'm in let's rendezvous at the pearly gates and we can head on from there...btw what is that yellow thing masquerading as your avatar :eek:

Sounds like a plan. Wouldn't want to be him...

What yellow thing?

[Cherie]

Sounds like a plan. Wouldn't want to be him...

What yellow thing?

I think my iPad is crazed you have a new avatar and yours is doubled up with Kazannes, Morsh and LukeB...is it just me that can see this :worry:

[Niamh.]

'fraid so cherie :laugh:

[Livia]

I think my iPad is crazed you have a new avatar and yours is doubled up with Kazannes, Morsh and LukeB...is it just me that can see this :worry:

That's weird... it looks okay to me. Your iPad may be possessed.

[Cherie]

'fraid so cherie :laugh:

:eek: are you playing a trick on me :suspect:

[Cherie]

That's weird... it looks okay to me. Your iPad may be possessed.

:laugh: I wish you could see it it's a big yellow smilie scratching it's chin

[Livia]

:laugh: I wish you could see it it's a big yellow smilie scratching it's chin

LOL... Sounds... different.

[Kizzy]

yes but you do realise you can say that about anything

that in fact we are all in a dream of a massive transexual hippo, that baked beans are the number cause of cancer, that David Cameron is an alien, that invisible elephants are what cause tooth decay, that mountains are infact a type of turtle..

That is a fact!

[Crimson Dynamo]

That is a fact!

i see no lies

[Cherie]

:eek: are you playing a trick on me :suspect:

Well.....

[Johnnyuk123]

Ok in my first life after walking the dogs for several years and chatting to Athiests in the park i died whilst trying to pick up dog poo and went straight to hell for missing the bin i tried too throw it in but i blamed my first death on all the womanizing i did to those female Athiests in the woods trying too convert them. Thankfully i enjoy hot resorts so i had a great time down there in hell and was disappointed to leave until i was reborn and sent back up to earth. Once reborn and after lengthy chats to my alien friends i then followed my new parents beliefs. I then became a true muslim to the core. Then after i blew myself up and after raveshing 57 virgins i was then reborn as Santa Claus. Then i dropped a few presents off here and there for a while for the kids but then got caught with some randy woman by her husband on xmas eve under the tree after one too many hognogs. 43 knife wounds later i was then reborn as Mr Blobby. It was a short life but i did have a lot of fun talking gibberish on saturday night tv and falling on people just for laughs! I have recently died once again and when i do come back i am hoping that this time i come back as the Eurovision Entry for the UK and hope to win the show to restore faith in the great british public. :joker::joker::joker:

[arista]

No Johnny
there is No Hell.


Your lighht goes out
like if I turn off my 4 Computers

[Johnnyuk123]

No Johnny
there is No Hell.


Your lighht goes out
like if I turn off my 4 Computers

:devil: :wavey:

[joeysteele]

No Johnny
there is No Hell.


Your lighht goes out
like if I turn off my 4 Computers

True the lights go off if you switch them off but the energy to restart and charge them is still in existence and available.

[Crimson Dynamo]

True the lights go off if you switch them off but the energy to restart and charge them is still in existence and available.

not if the power cord is cut in half it aint

[joeysteele]

not if the power cord is cut in half it aint

It is, the power would still be available from the socket and the generating source it is set up from in the first place.

Just because in your scenario, that energy cannot be used at that time, does not mean it is out of existence altogether.

[Livia]

Steve Jobs, one of the Apple founders, died around the same time as my husband. He'd said previously that "death is very likely the single best invention of life".

His last words, which at the time gave me a lot of comfort, were reported like this:

"Before embarking, he'd looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life's partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them.

"Steve's final words were: 'Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.'"

[kirklancaster]

It is, the power would still be available from the socket and the generating source it is set up from in the first place.

Just because in your scenario, that energy cannot be used at that time, does not mean it is out of existence altogether.

:laugh: 2-0 to Joey. :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Steve Jobs, one of the Apple founders, died around the same time as my husband. He'd said previously that "death is very likely the single best invention of life".

His last words, which at the time gave me a lot of comfort, were reported like this:

"Before embarking, he'd looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life's partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them.

"Steve's final words were: 'Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.'"

I read that too Liv, and I KNOW why he was 'Wowing', but then again, I know that you know too.

[kirklancaster]

It is, the power would still be available from the socket and the generating source it is set up from in the first place.

Just because in your scenario, that energy cannot be used at that time, does not mean it is out of existence altogether.

I bet.......

Trumpet's response includes the words: 'Dissipation' and 'Heat' or variations thereof. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Well.....

I'm not :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Steve Jobs, one of the Apple founders, died around the same time as my husband. He'd said previously that "death is very likely the single best invention of life".

His last words, which at the time gave me a lot of comfort, were reported like this:

"Before embarking, he'd looked at his sister Patty, then for a long time at his children, then at his life's partner, Laurene, and then over their shoulders past them.

"Steve's final words were: 'Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.'"

if that were indeed true and i think its anecdotal at best it means nothing

indeed its more likely to do with pain

[Crimson Dynamo]

or the price of the iphone 6

[Crimson Dynamo]

It is, the power would still be available from the socket and the generating source it is set up from in the first place.

Just because in your scenario, that energy cannot be used at that time, does not mean it is out of existence altogether.

yes life goes on in new people but dead people like old and dead pcs die and dont come back

[kirklancaster]

or the price of the iphone 6

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Ashley.]

I read that too Liv, and I KNOW why he was 'Wowing', but then again, I know that you know too.

I want to know! :joker:

[kirklancaster]

yes life goes on in new people but dead people like old and dead pcs die and dont come back

:fist: You peeked at my spoiler.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:fist: You peeked at my spoiler.

wooo get you and your avatar and now spoilers

:joker:

[Ashley.]

:fist: You peeked at my spoiler.

matron :smug:

[kirklancaster]

wooo get you and your avatar and now spoilers

:joker:

I credit YOU for the lovely avatar, and Liv and Ammi for educating me on the other 'techno' stuff. :laugh:

[Livia]

if that were indeed true and i think its anecdotal at best it means nothing

indeed its more likely to do with pain

That's an astonishing diagnosis from a different continent four years later.

It meant a lot to me, especially at the time. You don't have to agree... I just wonder why you're so vociferously opposed to the notion when it doesn't affect you and there is no proof either way. I believe one thing, you believe another and you're no more likely to dissuade me of what I believe than I am to dissuade you. Stale mate. Mate.

[Kizzy]

I've heard the 'it's the pain relief' argument in relation to those terminally ill in their final moments rallying. It happened to my father and it was unnerving but gave us time to say goodbye,the serenity that swept across his face, the essence we felt at that moment and for several hours after wasn't due to any medication he or indeed we had taken, it was truly inexplicable... I like logic as much as the next person but unless you'd experienced that situation first hand it's impossible to attempt to rationalise the events.

[kirklancaster]

Ok in my first life after walking the dogs for several years and chatting to Athiests in the park i died whilst trying to pick up dog poo and went straight to hell for missing the bin i tried too throw it in but i blamed my first death on all the womanizing i did to those female Athiests in the woods trying too convert them. Thankfully i enjoy hot resorts so i had a great time down there in hell and was disappointed to leave until i was reborn and sent back up to earth. Once reborn and after lengthy chats to my alien friends i then followed my new parents beliefs. I then became a true muslim to the core. Then after i blew myself up and after raveshing 57 virgins i was then reborn as Santa Claus. Then i dropped a few presents off here and there for a while for the kids but then got caught with some randy woman by her husband on xmas eve under the tree after one too many hognogs. 43 knife wounds later i was then reborn as Mr Blobby. It was a short life but i did have a lot of fun talking gibberish on saturday night tv and falling on people just for laughs! I have recently died once again and when i do come back i am hoping that this time i come back as the Eurovision Entry for the UK and hope to win the show to restore faith in the great british public. :joker::joker::joker:

:laugh: My old mate Johnny on the LSD again. :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's an astonishing diagnosis from a different continent four years later.

It meant a lot to me, especially at the time. You don't have to agree... I just wonder why you're so vociferously opposed to the notion when it doesn't affect you and there is no proof either way. I believe one thing, you believe another and you're no more likely to dissuade me of what I believe than I am to dissuade you. Stale mate. Mate.

not really, he is supposed to have said something and it means nothing, its not evidence for anything.

if you wish to concoct a story to go with it that is great and if it helps you fantastic but its not what I am saying or arguing about

Its not either or, either.

50,000 people die every day and their last words are myriad.

Its like cold reading, you just ignore them all until one fits with the view you wish to have


But it means nothing and is evidence for nothing - its just that we allegedly heard about this as he is famous. That day 5000 people could have said "oh sh1t there is nothing but black..." or "oh no this is it there is nothing ahead but non existence" but we did not hear about that.

[kirklancaster]

I've heard the 'it's the pain relief' argument in relation to those terminally ill in their final moments rallying. It happened to my father and it was unnerving but gave us time to say goodbye,the serenity that swept across his face, the essence we felt at that moment and for several hours after wasn't due to any medication he or indeed we had taken, it was truly inexplicable... I like logic as much as the next person but unless you'd experienced that situation first hand it's impossible to attempt to rationalise the events.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Livia]

I've heard the 'it's the pain relief' argument in relation to those terminally ill in their final moments rallying. It happened to my father and it was unnerving but gave us time to say goodbye,the serenity that swept across his face, the essence we felt at that moment and for several hours after wasn't due to any medication he or indeed we had taken, it was truly inexplicable... I like logic as much as the next person but unless you'd experienced that situation first hand it's impossible to attempt to rationalise the events.

Good post, I agree.

Okay, I'm going to sit down and breathe into a paper bag for a minute...

[Livia]

not really, he is supposed to have said something and it means nothing, its not evidence for anything.

if you wish to concoct a story to go with it that is great and if it helps you fantastic but its not what I am saying or arguing about

Its not either or, either.

50,000 people die every day and their last words are myriad.

Its like cold reading, you just ignore them all until one fits with the view you wish to have


But it means nothing and is evidence for nothing - its just that we allegedly heard about this as he is famous. That day 5000 people could have said "oh sh1t there is nothing but black..." or "oh no this is it there is nothing ahead but non existence" but we did not hear about that.

Yeah, I understand all that. I'm just mystified by your crusade to take comfort from people just because you don't believe it. I mean, it's not like you're ever going to find out, you're far too wicked ever to die.

[kirklancaster]

not really, he is supposed to have said something and it means nothing, its not evidence for anything.

if you wish to concoct a story to go with it that is great and if it helps you fantastic but its not what I am saying or arguing about

Its not either or, either.

50,000 people die every day and their last words are myriad.

Its like cold reading, you just ignore them all until one fits with the view you wish to have


But it means nothing and is evidence for nothing - its just that we allegedly heard about this as he is famous. That day 5000 people could have said "oh sh1t there is nothing but black..." or "oh no this is it there is nothing ahead but non existence" but we did not hear about that.

By Gad Sir you are incorrigible. But so are we on this subject. :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Yeah, I understand all that. I'm just mystified by your crusade to take comfort from people just because you don't believe it. I mean, it's not like you're ever going to find out, you're far too wicked ever to die.

:laugh2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, I understand all that. I'm just mystified by your crusade to take comfort from people just because you don't believe it. I mean, it's not like you're ever going to find out, you're far too wicked ever to die.

The problem with what dead people said just as they die is the fact that they cant come back to refute it


which is some ways kind of solves the mystery in its self

[Livia]

You just wait till Cherie and I shuffle off this mortal coil and come back to go all Woman In Black on your arse...

[kirklancaster]

Good post, I agree.

Okay, I'm going to sit down and breathe into a paper bag for a minute...

:laugh::laugh::laugh: What's those Meatloaf lyrics? Oh. I remember....

'You took the words right out of my mouth'. :laugh:

Kizzy will be the one needing to sit down - Kirk applaudig her, and Livia commending her. Is the 'Goodwill and Peace To All Mankind' spirit already in the air? :laugh:

[Kizzy]

I already look like the grudge so I have a head start :laugh:

I'm in shock... there are bright lights...should I walk towards them? :hehe:

[Livia]

I already look like the grudge so I have a head start :laugh:

I'm in shock... there are bright lights...should I walk towards them? :hehe:

Yes... walk toward them... they're to the right of you :-)

[kirklancaster]

The problem with what dead people said just as they die is the fact that they cant come back to refute it


which is some ways kind of solves the mystery in its self

Yet, what if they are not allowed to come back?

Wouldn't this destroy the meaning and reason for 'Faith'? It would be akin to a lonely poverty stricken guy proving that he'd just won the EuroLottery - He'd suddenly be swamped by tossers wanting to be his friend.

Faith is faith.

[kirklancaster]

I already look like the grudge so I have a head start :laugh:

I'm in shock... there are bright lights...should I walk towards them? :hehe:

No! It might be LT standing on the edge of a cliff trying to lure you. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yet, what if they are not allowed to come back?

Wouldn't this destroy the meaning and reason for 'Faith'? It would be akin to a lonely poverty stricken guy proving that he'd just won the EuroLottery - He'd suddenly be swamped by tossers wanting to be his friend.

Faith is faith.

This would be bad news for all those who "have seen a ghost":hehe:


( and they dont care if you dont believe them as they know what they saw :rolleyes:)

[kirklancaster]

Yes... walk toward them... they're to the right of you :-)

:worship: Wow. I am humbled. You really are so... I've only just 'got' this Liv.

[Kizzy]

Yes... walk toward them... they're to the right of you :-)

I'm headed for the Pleiades not draco with the lizard people :nono:

[Kizzy]

:worship: Wow. I am humbled. You really are so... I've only just 'got' this Liv.

Well done kirk you found your heaven... Liv it's uranus!

[kirklancaster]

Well done kirk you found your heaven... Liv it's uranus!

:laugh:

[Ashley.]

Oh god, we're all screwed if Heaven and Hell actually exists

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh god, we're all screwed if Heaven and Hell actually exists

we can barely run the NHS so it seems unlikely

[JoshBB]

I was just thinking.. if heaven is real, and you're sent there, can you choose to leave it? Otherwise is it not some kind of prison?

[Kizzy]

Josh.... shhhhhh, stop thinking...... there, that's better isn't it? :hehe:

[Johnnyuk123]

:laugh: My old mate Johnny on the LSD again. :hehe:

:joker::joker::joker::wavey:

[kirklancaster]

:joker::joker::joker::wavey:

:laugh: Hi Johnny. Great to see you being more active now - We need you.

[Johnnyuk123]

:laugh: Hi Johnny. Great to see you being more active now - We need you.

Hi! :wavey: and thanks :wavey: