Alcohol... How much is too much?

[Kizzy]

Following on from a discussion on the sugar tax thread ( that I was derailing sorry DR)

How much alcohol or how often pushes someone into alcohol dependency I never thought about it before, is one glass daily too much if you need it to unwind...is it a habit or an addiction?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Certainly people have personalities that lend themselves to addiction or at least to go beyond what most people would be happy with.

So in those cases recommended units will be of little help


In the UK we celebrate alcohol abuse - a hangover at work is treated like a badge of honour etc

[Kizzy]

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

Prob is Kizzy there is no definition of what an alcoholic is really, no one really knows.

You can see an alky in the street at 10am on a can of Special Brew and think yep there is one but what about the professional couple who drink 2 bottles of wine a night 7 days a week plus a bottle and half of Gin at the weekend?

Its a very grey area

:suspect:

[jennyjuniper]

The amount doesn't really matter, it's whether you can live without it or not.

[Calderyon]

Taking any at all imo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The amount doesn't really matter, it's whether you can live without it or not.

well it does really

if you cant live without half a glass of beer a day you are not likely to come to any harm


if its a bottle of spirits then you will

[Crimson Dynamo]

try telling most folks to give up caffeine or sugar

[kirklancaster]

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

[Kizzy]

try telling most folks to give up caffeine or sugar

Otherwise known as socially acceptable addictions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

Well alcohol affects all drinkers health Kirk, getting drunk is not good for anyone


And how many folk do you know who have had a terrible hangover but still drink?

[kirklancaster]

Well alcohol affects all drinkers health Kirk, getting drunk is not good for anyone


And how many folk do you know who have had a terrible hangover but still drink?

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

[Kizzy]

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

So if you drink 2 bottles of wine a day, feel well and are perfectly behaved you're fine to continue?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

that would half the adult population in the UK

[AnnieK]

I enjoy a drink but if I was told tomorrow that I could never drink again I would be able to do it - I wouldn't be overly impressed but I would definitely not suffer because of it

[bots]

i think the clearest indication of alcoholism is when it impairs your ability to perform your normal daily functions and/or it disrupts the lives of your friends and family.

Plenty people drink lots and function fine, others just don't

[Crimson Dynamo]

I enjoy a drink but if I was told tomorrow that I could never drink again I would be able to do it - I wouldn't be overly impressed but I would definitely not suffer because of it

the classic denial of the alcoholic :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

So if you drink 2 bottles of wine a day, feel well and are perfectly behaved you're fine to continue?

Yes Kiz - IF your own unique constitution affords you to tolerate such consumption WITHOUT adversely afecting your health.

Health apart, some people can drink copious amounts of alcohol without ill effect nor altering their social behaviour, others can have just a couple of drinks and turn into aggressive, trouble causers.

[kirklancaster]

the classic denial of the alcoholic :hehe:

:laugh: Poor Annie.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://ncadd.org/get-help/take-the-test/am-i-alcoholic-self-test

take this test and dont lie and report back

[Kizzy]

Exactly LT - So they have a form of 'Alcoholism'. Obviously as in any illness, there are many degrees of alcoholism, but I think my definition comes closest to answering the OP.

Alcoholc abuse is the cause of more misery in the world than any other substance abuse.

No sorry it doesn't, and there are not degrees of alcoholism.
I wanted to know if enjoying alcohol socially regularly as part of a end of daily/ weekly habit.

G&T after work or bottle of wine with a movie on weekends, if you found it hard to break that routine are you an alcoholic?

If you go out once a month and get so off your face you can't stand are you an alcoholic?

[kirklancaster]

https://ncadd.org/get-help/take-the-test/am-i-alcoholic-self-test

take this test and dont lie and report back

I took it truthfully. Here's my result:

Your Results
In Your Self Test 4 Answer(s) Caused Concern
You Are At Risk
The results suggest you are at risk for developing problems with alcohol. You should consider arranging a personal meeting with a professional who has experience in the evaluation of alcohol problems.

And I am virtually TEE TOTAL these days.

[Kizzy]

Yes Kiz - IF your own unique constitution affords you to tolerate such consumption WITHOUT adversely afecting your health.

Health apart, some people can drink copious amounts of alcohol without ill effect nor altering their social behaviour, others can have just a couple of drinks and turn into aggressive, trouble causers.

2 bottles of wine is roughly 20 units of alcohol and 1000 calories, anyone who thinks consuming this much regularly will not have an adverse effect even if you don't notice at the time they are deluding themselves. It will ultimately have one.

[kirklancaster]

2 bottles of wine is roughly 20 units of alcohol and 1000 calories, anyone who thinks consuming this much regularly will not have an adverse effect even if you don't notice at the time they are deluding themselves. It will ultimately have one.

Hece, my use of an emboldened 'IF'.

[user104658]

I'm just going to copy and paste from the sugar thread, because I'm lazy :laugh:...

Speaking as someone who watched an addict develop, progress and die: I see the kindling of potential alcohol problems everywhere I look. Often the only difference between someone who "just needs a wee glass of wine to wind down in the evening" and full-blown 2 bottles a day alcoholism is one personal tragedy.

If someone uses small amounts of alcohol to deal with low-level everyday stress, then they are at massive risk of turning to large amounts of alcohol to deal with very high stress situations. Basically. VAST numbers of people do the former and are simply lucky enough to never face anything big enough to tip the scales.

I accept that my perceptions are coloured by personal experience, but not totally. I am capable of acknowledging healthy, social alcohol use... I'm not someone who thinks alcohol is the root of all evil. However, if it's being used as self-medication (and yes, that includes drinking small amounts in the evening to alleviate stress) then it has the potential to become a problem. Not always, and not for everyone, but it's not a healthy use of the substance.

Also, having encountered this in more situations than just my own personal experiences, and discussed ( / argued) the point with a fair few people... I think you'd find that many of those people who "don't need" that one glass have a suspiciously strong inability to actually not have it when pushed.

I find that there's a strong misconception that alcoholism is only alcoholism when it becomes problematic and starts to affect someone's work and personal life, if they can't go a day without a drink, etc... But that isn't the case. The world is absolutely full of functional, successful people with unacknowledged low-level alcohol dependancies.

I took it truthfully. Here's my result:

Your Results
In Your Self Test 4 Answer(s) Caused Concern
You Are At Risk
The results suggest you are at risk for developing problems with alcohol. You should consider arranging a personal meeting with a professional who has experience in the evaluation of alcohol problems.

And I am virtually TEE TOTAL these days.

That test is nonsense, it says I'm at risk even though I only had ONE "concerning" answer (blood relative with alcoholism). Which is a risk factor, yeah, but I don't think it's enough to warrant me seeking professional help! :joker: "Doctor I think I have an alcohol problem! My signs are that my mother had an alcohol problem. Plays halp meh."

That said, her entire side of the family seems to have had a problem. Both of my grandparents on that side did (I only found this out recently reading through some of my mum's therapy notes after she died) and her sister was a seriously full-blown, wandering-the-streets-half-dressed, stealing-vodka-from-supermarket, crazy alcoholic.

Funnily enough though, my aunt is now completely teetotal and has been for 10+ years, after hitting rock bottom with it. My mum managed to keep just far enough from rock bottom for long enough for it to wreck her liver. Guess if you start, it's better to just bottom out and try to rebound?

[user104658]

An alcoholic is someone whose drinking affects their health or their social behaviour for the worst, yet continues to drink.

I disagree with that. As I said above, there are many very successful people (socially, career wise, etc.) who have a low-level dependancy on using alcohol at the end of the day to deal with stress. It's not always obvious. And like I said a lot of people go through their whole life like that with no issues. But these are the people who, on some level, do use alcohol as a "crutch" when it comes down to it, and if / when something "major" DOES happen in their life (a death, a family scandal, bankruptcy) they are at very high risk of simply increasing their alcohol intake to deal with the increased stress. I'd say they already have an alcohol dependancy. Just not one that's hugely affecting their life.

[Kizzy]

Hece, my use of an emboldened 'IF'.

It's never 'if'... it's ' when'.

[Kizzy]

I'm just going to copy and paste from the sugar thread, because I'm lazy :laugh:...

Speaking as someone who watched an addict develop, progress and die: I see the kindling of potential alcohol problems everywhere I look. Often the only difference between someone who "just needs a wee glass of wine to wind down in the evening" and full-blown 2 bottles a day alcoholism is one personal tragedy.

If someone uses small amounts of alcohol to deal with low-level everyday stress, then they are at massive risk of turning to large amounts of alcohol to deal with very high stress situations. Basically. VAST numbers of people do the former and are simply lucky enough to never face anything big enough to tip the scales.

I accept that my perceptions are coloured by personal experience, but not totally. I am capable of acknowledging healthy, social alcohol use... I'm not someone who thinks alcohol is the root of all evil. However, if it's being used as self-medication (and yes, that includes drinking small amounts in the evening to alleviate stress) then it has the potential to become a problem. Not always, and not for everyone, but it's not a healthy use of the substance.

Also, having encountered this in more situations than just my own personal experiences, and discussed ( / argued) the point with a fair few people... I think you'd find that many of those people who "don't need" that one glass have a suspiciously strong inability to actually not have it when pushed.

I find that there's a strong misconception that alcoholism is only alcoholism when it becomes problematic and starts to affect someone's work and personal life, if they can't go a day without a drink, etc... But that isn't the case. The world is absolutely full of functional, successful people with unacknowledged low-level alcohol dependancies.



That test is nonsense, it says I'm at risk even though I only had ONE "concerning" answer (blood relative with alcoholism). Which is a risk factor, yeah, but I don't think it's enough to warrant me seeking professional help! :joker: "Doctor I think I have an alcohol problem! My signs are that my mother had an alcohol problem. Plays halp meh."

That said, her entire side of the family seems to have had a problem. Both of my grandparents on that side did (I only found this out recently reading through some of my mum's therapy notes after she died) and her sister was a seriously full-blown, wandering-the-streets-half-dressed, stealing-vodka-from-supermarket, crazy alcoholic.

Funnily enough though, my aunt is now completely teetotal and has been for 10+ years, after hitting rock bottom with it. My mum managed to keep just far enough from rock bottom for long enough for it to wreck her liver. Guess if you start, it's better to just bottom out and try to rebound?

It breaks my heart reading your posts sometimes TS :hug:

[DemolitionRed]

If you have a glass with an evening meal everyday for 10yrs are you an addict?

Only if you need to have that glass of wine.

We always imagine alcoholics to drink large quantities of alcohol, I think you can be a one glass a day person and still be an alcoholic, though obviously 1 glass of wine a day isn't going to do you much harm.

Then again it depends on the size of the glass :hehe:

[Kizzy]

That would see a heck of a lot of people reclassified as functioning alcoholics then :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Only if you need to have that glass of wine.

We always imagine alcoholics to drink large quantities of alcohol, I think you can be a one glass a day person and still be an alcoholic, though obviously 1 glass of wine a day isn't going to do you much harm.

Then again it depends on the size of the glass :hehe:

and how would you decide on "need"

[Ammi]

and how would you decide on "need"

..I think for me, a part of that would be if someone's coping abilities were lessened through not having that glass/those glasses of wine...

[Crimson Dynamo]

..I think for me, a part of that would be if someone's coping abilities were lessened through not having that glass/those glasses of wine...

too vague Ammi

to open to interpretation


how would you tell?


millions of adults come home and self medicate a hard day with a glass of wine per night and then get on it more at the weekend

[Jessica.]

I don't drink so anything more than a mouthful is too much. :)

[Ammi]

too vague Ammi

to open to interpretation


how would you tell?


millions of adults come home and self medicate a hard day with a glass of wine per night and then get on it more at the weekend

..and for some it would be fine..(obviously apart from if there were any physical health implications..)...and for others, it wouldn't because it's not a 'one size fits all thing'...

[AnnieK]

It is so difficult to explain.. I love a drink (as I've said lol, maybe I do have a problem), although I rarely drink to get drunk and when I went through a highly stressful time last year I didn't touch a drop. However, I know lots of people through work who have very successful careers and they regularly say they can't sleep without drink. It doesn't affect them career wise or in any other way but I don't know much about their personal lives but needing a drink to get to sleep would classify them in my mind as functioning alcoholics although I am sure they would disagree

[lostalex]

Following on from a discussion on the sugar tax thread ( that I was derailing sorry DR)

How much alcohol or how often pushes someone into alcohol dependency I never thought about it before, is one glass daily too much if you need it to unwind...is it a habit or an addiction?

addiction has nothing to do with a particular addictive substance. someone with the disease of addiction will be an addict even if they grew up on an island with no drugs. addiction is a mental disorder like anorexia. (actually anorexia is considered to be on the addiction spectrum)

It's a personality disorder. physical addiction to chemicals is just a possible symptom of the mental disorder.

Addiction is more like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder if you had to compare it to anything. and many Addicts also suffer from OCD like tendencies too.

alcohol for an addict is like a medication. alcohol is not the problem, addiction is the problem, alcohol is the solution to the problem.

addiction makes you feel like you are helpless, desperate, paranoid, anxious, and addicts seek out ways to stop those feelings, like alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, food, danger, risks, anything that will cause our brains to be stimulated and distract us from the horrible feelings underneath.

but there is no cure for the horrible feelings underneath, just self-medication. just whatever we can do to try to not feel the horrible feelings of addiction.

that is addiction.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I once met a woman who told me she downed a half bottle of Vodka in like 10 mins as she was choking for a drink - she then spewed a lot of it back up in a bucket and because she had no more drink nor money....


she redrank it :omgno:

Now that is dedication

[lostalex]

I once met a woman who told me she downed a half bottle of Vodka in like 10 mins as she was choking for a drink - she then spewed a lot of it back up in a bucket and because she had no more drink nor money....


she redrank it :omgno:

Now that is dedication


what happened to the other half of the bottle?

[Crimson Dynamo]

what happened to the other half of the bottle?

In the UK you can buy a half bottle, its half the size of a full one!

[lostalex]

In the UK you can buy a half bottle, its half the size of a full one!

OIC, that's just what that size of bottle is called. i get it now.

[Kizzy]

addiction has nothing to do with a particular addictive substance. someone with the disease of addiction will be an addict even if they grew up on an island with no drugs. addiction is a mental disorder like anorexia. (actually anorexia is considered to be on the addiction spectrum)

It's a personality disorder. physical addiction to chemicals is just a possible symptom of the mental disorder.

Addiction is more like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder if you had to compare it to anything. and many Addicts also suffer from OCD like tendencies too.

alcohol for an addict is like a medication. alcohol is not the problem, addiction is the problem, alcohol is the solution to the problem.

addiction makes you feel like you are helpless, desperate, paranoid, anxious, and addicts seek out ways to stop those feelings, like alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, food, danger, risks, anything that will cause our brains to be stimulated and distract us from the horrible feelings underneath.

but there is no cure for the horrible feelings underneath, just self-medication. just whatever we can do to try to not feel the horrible feelings of addiction.

that is addiction.

You may be right, could be why it has patters in families, or it could be a learned coping mechanism who knows?
I would've said anorexia is more control than addiction and there's no physical dependency it's all mental I'd say.
Having had an addiction for one thing doesn't for me predispose you to every other addiction, it's not my experience anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It runs in families the way a personality runs, I would say its not the alcoholism that runs but the personality and upbringing that lends itsself to using alcohol

[DemolitionRed]

and how would you decide on "need"

Like I said in that other thread.... When my husband asked me if I was prepared to walk a mile in the rain to get my nightly wine fix (one glass), that makes me potentially wine dependant.

[Kizzy]

Like I said in that other thread.... When my husband asked me if I was prepared to walk a mile in the rain to get my nightly wine fix (one glass), that makes me potentially wine dependant.

When you knock over a glass and your first instinct is to suck it out of the carpet talk to me.... ;)
Only joking, if it was becoming an issue then yes it's time to take action it's great that you were able to break the routine and avoid further dependency.

[lostalex]

You may be right, could be why it has patters in families, or it could be a learned coping mechanism who knows?
I would've said anorexia is more control than addiction and there's no physical dependency it's all mental I'd say.
Having had an addiction for one thing doesn't for me predispose you to every other addiction, it's not my experience anyway.

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating. Just like a binge alcoholic that drinks 2 bottles of vodka on the weekend, looses control, and then promises to never drink again and doesn't drink for 2 weeks, only to repeat the process again.

[lostalex]

It runs in families the way a personality runs, I would say its not the alcoholism that runs but the personality and upbringing that lends itsself to using alcohol

everyone in my family has vastly different personalities, so that doesn't make much sense. but you are right that the diseases of addiction is genetic and therefore runs in families.

[DemolitionRed]

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating.

People who have bulimia or anorexia are people who feel in control of their eating. Its often brought on by trauma/abuse that was out of their control.

[Kizzy]

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating. Just like a binge alcoholic that drinks 2 bottles of vodka on the weekend, looses control, and then promises to never drink again and doesn't drink for 2 weeks, only to repeat the process again.

I didn't say they were in control I said it was about control.

[lostalex]

People who have bulimia or anorexia are people who feel in control of their eating. Its often brought on by trauma/abuse that was out of their control.

i'm a bulimic and have spent plenty of time in recovery programs. I've never met a fellow bulimic or anorexic who would say that they felt they were in control. They would all say they were completely out of control. every single one of us always felt out of control suffering with this disease. Like all diseases it's about trying to get control. but you never have control. ever. moderation is an impossible goal, we even try to control moderation to the extreme.

[Redway]

Alcohol abuser = someone who continues to drink despite negative consequences (business failure and relationship breakdown etc).

Alcoholic = someone who physically craves for the stuff and experiences both tolerance and withdrawal.

[Redway]

anorexics are not in control, if they were in control they would be able to maintain a perfect body weight, but they can't, they take it to the extreme. and most anorexics have binge eating disorder. people think anorexics just don't eat, but that is not true. The vast majority of anorexics are actually binge eaters, and they starve themselves trying to stop the binge eating. Just like a binge alcoholic that drinks 2 bottles of vodka on the weekend, looses control, and then promises to never drink again and doesn't drink for 2 weeks, only to repeat the process again.

Not trying to be pedantic but wouldn't binge eating full under the banner of bulimia nervosa?

[lostalex]

Not trying to be pedantic but wouldn't binge eating full under the banner of bulimia nervosa?

there are very few true anorexics. i didn't meet any in my rehab program. i suspect a true anorexic would die before they made it to rehab.

[Redway]

there are very few true anorexics. i didn't meet any in my rehab program. i suspect a true anorexic would die before they made it to rehab.

Yeah, fair dos. I guess it's more than possible to have both.

[Northern Monkey]

It all comes down to personalities.

For instance i started binge drinking at 13.I drank all the way through my 20's most weeks anywhere between once and three to four times.But i never became dependant on it.I did it socially mainly.On the nights that i did'nt drink i had no urges to drink and after being in my current relationship for about 2 years i just stopped.I don't know why,I just did'nt fancy a drink.Now i drink very very rarely,Only on special occasions.
So the question of how much is too much depends really on the person.
Now if that person feels as if they NEED a drink at night if they have'nt had one then that to me is a problem.Nobody should NEED to drink but just enjoy it from time to time.Imo.

[lostalex]

i think its cute, all these people that say they drank a lot and were able to quit and it's just that easy. then obviously you don't have the disease of addiction. stop trying to project your life story onto something completely unrelated.

Addiction is a disease, it's diagnosed by a doctor. if you weren't diagnosed, then please stop pretending that you understand or that your experience is in any way relevant.

That's like you saying you once tried on your mother's high heel shoes, so you totally understand being transgender, it's just a phase. it's just for fun, it's a choice.

(and for the record i did try on my mother's high heel shoes when i snuck into her room, but i'm not transgender.)

[Northern Monkey]

i think its cute, all these people that say they drank a lot and were able to quit and it's just that easy. then obviously you don't have the disease of addiction. stop trying to project your life story onto something completely unrelated.

Addiction is a disease, it's diagnosed by a doctor. if you weren't diagnosed, then please stop pretending that you understand or that your experience is in any way relevant.

That's like you saying you once tried on your mother's high heel shoes, so you totally understand being transgender, it's just a phase. it's just for fun, it's a choice.

(and for the record i did try on my mother's high heel shoes when i snuck into her room, but i'm not transgender.)Hence why i said it's all down to peoples personalities.My example is just my relationship with alchohol.Everybody is different.

[lostalex]

Hence why i said it's all down to peoples personalities.My example is just my relationship with alchohol.Everybody is different.

no, it's not down to personalities. it's down to people who have a disease/disorder and people who don't. there's a difference.

[waterhog]

no, it's not down to personalities. it's down to people who have a disease/disorder and people who don't. there's a difference.

by definition - alcoholism is a disease so you are right.

[DemolitionRed]

i'm a bulimic and have spent plenty of time in recovery programs. I've never met a fellow bulimic or anorexic who would say that they felt they were in control. They would all say they were completely out of control. every single one of us always felt out of control suffering with this disease. Like all diseases it's about trying to get control. but you never have control. ever. moderation is an impossible goal, we even try to control moderation to the extreme.

The control paradox

http://nedic.ca/sites/default/files/control-paradox-understanding-and-working-anorexia-and-bulimia.pdf

This is what I mean...http://www.psychforums.com/anorexia-nervosa/topic60589.html

[Marsh.]

i think its cute, all these people that say they drank a lot and were able to quit and it's just that easy. then obviously you don't have the disease of addiction. stop trying to project your life story onto something completely unrelated.

Addiction is a disease, it's diagnosed by a doctor. if you weren't diagnosed, then please stop pretending that you understand or that your experience is in any way relevant.

That's like you saying you once tried on your mother's high heel shoes, so you totally understand being transgender, it's just a phase. it's just for fun, it's a choice.

(and for the record i did try on my mother's high heel shoes when i snuck into her room, but i'm not transgender.)

I don't think you can call someone binge drinking heavily from 13 right through to their 20s a phase like trying on a pair of shoes. That's quite a chunk of time. :umm2:

[Ashley.]

I was only 17 when I first started becoming dependant on alcohol, and I was forced to take action when I was 18 when things got really out of hand. From my personal experience, I don’t think anything “begins” as an addiction. An addiction takes a while to develop. It becomes too much when you find yourself thinking about alcohol more than you do other people.

[lostalex]

I don't think you can call someone binge drinking heavily from 13 right through to their 20s a phase like trying on a pair of shoes. That's quite a chunk of time. :umm2:

i didn't call it a phase. That definitely sounds like someone with the disease of addiction to me.

[the truth]

i think its cute, all these people that say they drank a lot and were able to quit and it's just that easy. then obviously you don't have the disease of addiction. stop trying to project your life story onto something completely unrelated.

Addiction is a disease, it's diagnosed by a doctor. if you weren't diagnosed, then please stop pretending that you understand or that your experience is in any way relevant.

That's like you saying you once tried on your mother's high heel shoes, so you totally understand being transgender, it's just a phase. it's just for fun, it's a choice.

(and for the record i did try on my mother's high heel shoes when i snuck into her room, but i'm not transgender.)

100% wrong

[Ammi]

..I do understand what Alex is saying, especially with anorexia/bulimia in that the control isn't there, which is different from people like models for instance and the trend now with some celebrities as well to maintain a 'size 0'...we often see in the media 'anorexia' being used to describe them if their weight loss has been substantial and they look incredibly thin ...and something I personally hate is labels, how people have to fit into a label...for them their weight loss is being controlled if it's being maintained...it may be that, that weight loss brings health issues because it may not be the weight that their bodies are comfortable with so much of the control comes with the 'fight/struggle' to try to maintain it...but is that anorexia as such or just an unhealthy weight for them personally...and obviously if they're substituting or missing meals/balanced meals, then that's not a good thing either...

....anyways, I've only ever personally known one person in my life who had anorexia and why I hate labels also because there is no 'one size fits all'...she basically ad a really loving and close family and circle of friends so there was no traumas or anything like that which had happened to her...she was the girl who had everything, I guess you could say...she was beautiful/intelligent/popular etc...but she didn't see any of those things in herself ..maybe she did try to control with her eating, maybe that's how it started only there was no control there, where there is with some people...so sadly and inevitably, she became anorexic...and as Alex said, although she virtually ate nothing publicly, she binge ate continuously in private and obviously made sure the food didn't stay there afterward...with her, it was something that she could not have overcome on her own because eventually her body rejected all food, so definitely an illness which meant several months in hospital..and many times in hospital also as the mental/emotional part of her illness had to be medicated and maintained as well.../which is different from the control people can feel through their eating...so yeah, just not a one size fits all thing either...

[Amy Jade]

I think drinking alcohol is a weird one, you can drink too much but not be addicted or relient - I know somebody who doesn't drink at all in the week, not even a drop but on a weekend he goes out Friday and Saturday and drinks a bottle of vodka between him and his friend and then go out and he comes home in a right mess - would that be classified as too much?

I have no idea how he does it I feel wavey after half a bottle of rose

[DemolitionRed]

I think drinking alcohol is a weird one, you can drink too much but not be addicted or relient - I know somebody who doesn't drink at all in the week, not even a drop but on a weekend he goes out Friday and Saturday and drinks a bottle of vodka between him and his friend and then go out and he comes home in a right mess - would that be classified as too much?

I have no idea how he does it I feel wavey after half a bottle of rose

I completely get him. I smoke 3 cigarettes a day...in the evening. I don't think about smoking during the day but when dinners over, my craving starts for tobacco.

We recently went to stay with friends and because they are very anti-smoking, I decided to refrain from tobacco for a few days. I became irritable, tearful, irrational and instead of enjoying my evenings with them, I just wanted to come home.

People always say to me, if you only smoke three a day it can't be an addiction; well it certainly feels like an addiction to me.

[kirklancaster]

After this thread, I think I need a drink.