60million to Skylon

[Kizzy]

This is the new super-plane. Why is it in the news?

The UK government has pumped £60m into a next-generation engine that will apparently make low-cost space travel possible for commercial customers.

Really? Will we be exploring the final frontier by Christmas?

Not quite. The new ‘Sabre’ engine - a hybrid rocket and jet propulsion system which theoretically allows travel anywhere on Earth in four hours or less - is still at least a decade away. However a full ground-based engine test is planned for 2020.

Who’s making it?

A company called Reaction Engines - which is based at Culham Science Centre in Oxfordshire - has been given a £60m grant by the government to help it develop and build the Skylon super-plane. The cash will also be used to help change the company from being mainly research-based to testing and eventual commercial applications.


60 million!! :/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-government-invests-60m-in-skylon-plane-that-can-fly-from-london-to-sydney-in-4-hours-a6718081.html

[arista]

Yes Time Travel

I back it.

[Livia]

Jobs, research and development, export possibilities... what's not to like?

[Kizzy]

Where was the discussion?... An investment this size and there's little mention of it anywhere, unlike HS2 which has been debated for years.

[Livia]

What's to discuss? Who wants to drag this out? Investment is good... it's not like they're sending it abroad so some tin pot government can update their Kalashnikovs.

[Kizzy]

What do you mean 'what's to discuss'? Investment is good if it will benefit the whole of the UK if they are using this amount of money where are the assurances?

This article from last year shows the commercial interests are not passenger travel.

'It looked closely at how an operator of the UK-conceived vehicle might meet the demands of its market.
Those requirements would be primarily to loft big telecoms satellites high above the equator of the Earth, but also to put smaller, Earth-observing spacecraft in Sun-synchronous orbits (a type of orbit around the poles). These are the sorts of jobs the Ariane 5 rocket does today, and which Ariane 6, currently under discussion among European governments, may do from the early 2020s onwards.
Skylon is not in that discussion space at the moment - but it may get there at some point in the future if further technical studies prove positive and the financing can be found to push the concept forward.
The Skylon-based European Launch Service Operator (S-ELSO) study examined some of the hardware the vehicle would need to place satellites in orbit, and aspects of the economic model that would allow the operator to turn a profit. It even looked at how the vehicle could work out of Kourou in French Guiana - Europe's spaceport.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27591432

[Marsh.]

Time travel? Eh? Arista?

[MTVN]

That article also says how 'in all the areas the study considered, it found positive outcomes. The report was intended to provide Esa with the information it needs to help evaluate what would be a completely different way for Europe to go about its launcher business'

Research has been carried out and evaluated and a decision to invest has been made. I see no problem.

[Kizzy]

That article also says how 'in all the areas the study considered, it found positive outcomes. The report was intended to provide Esa with the information it needs to help evaluate what would be a completely different way for Europe to go about its launcher business'

Research has been carried out and evaluated and a decision to invest has been made. I see no problem.

'Whether Skylon ever becomes a reality depends in large part on the successful development of its Sabre engines, now in the final phase of design and demonstration with REL. To date, Esa's independent audits have found "no showstoppers".
If the hurdle is crossed - and the UK government is providing £60m to help complete the phase - then a Skylon-like vehicle ought to be producible and flying in the 2020s.'

Where are the positives, there are no assurances that this is viable.

[Northern Monkey]

Awesome!It's about time something cool like this came out of the UK.Just one more step to the future.

[waterhog]

marti is that you ? its me macfly

[lostalex]

60 million is not a crazy amount when it comes to designing, engineering, building, testing a brand new aircraft.

[Northern Monkey]

marti is that you ? its me macfly

Hey Mcfly! Mcfly! I thought i told you never to come in here Mcfly!

[arista]

Time travel? Eh? Arista?


Yes the Faster we travel
it becomes Time Travel

[user104658]

To be fair Kizzy, 60 million is not a lot of money in country-wide terms. Almost insignificant, really.

[Livia]

Awesome!It's about time something cool like this came out of the UK.Just one more step to the future.

60 million is not a crazy amount when it comes to designing, engineering, building, testing a brand new aircraft.

To be fair Kizzy, 60 million is not a lot of money in country-wide terms. Almost insignificant, really.

Right, right and.... right again.

[Kizzy]

When they are shaving millions from essential services and ploughing it into unsecured investments without consultation I thought it might be?

[Livia]

Without consultation with whom, exactly?

[Kizzy]

According to this they require 220 million, so the 60 million from the govt is to entice further investment.
Funny how hydrogen cars are a nono for some but hydrogen rocket planes are great?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmbis/735/735vw15.htm

[Livia]

If they want to interest people who like cars in hydrogen cars, they need to spend as much effort on the design as the technology. Anyhoo... that's an entirely different matter.

[Kizzy]

If they want to interest people who like cars in hydrogen cars, they need to spend as much effort on the design at the technology. Anyhoo... that;'s an entirely different matter.

Was it not the safety not the design that was the biggest issue?

[Northern Monkey]

Meh take it out of the foreign aid budget.We've funded India's space program for long enough.

[Livia]

Meh take it out of the foreign aid budget.We've funded India's space program for long enough.

Couldn't agree more.

[Northern Monkey]

Couldn't agree more.

:thumbs:

[Kizzy]

Ah so that's not a different matter... ok, it's not manipulating the conversation to suit an agenda?
If you have a problem with the foreign aid budget start your own thread.

[Livia]

Starting a thread doesn't give you the right to throw people out of it because you don't agree with them.

You're moaning about £60 million despite the fact most people seem to think a £60 million investment is not so bad in this instance as we've been sending £750 million to India every year despite the fact they're rich enough to have their own space programme. Drawing a comparison to money that some view is wasted abroad while you're moaning about investment in this country is relevant to the conversation.

[Northern Monkey]

Starting a thread doesn't give you the right to throw people out of it because you don't agree with them.

You're moaning about £60 million despite the fact most people seem to think a £60 million investment is not so bad in this instance as we've been sending £750 million to India every year despite the fact they're rich enough to have their own space programme. Drawing a comparison to money that some view is wasted abroad while you're moaning about investment in this country is relevant to the conversation.

Well i don't need to reply after this.:cheer2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

naturally they will spend most of the money making Terminators :idc:

I saw a documentary on this hosted by Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Livia]

Well i don't need to reply after this.:cheer2:

Soz... jumped in. Tell you what, I won't bill you this one time.

[Northern Monkey]

Soz... jumped in. Tell you what, I won't bill you this one time.


Meh just take it out the foreign aid budget....

[Kizzy]

Starting a thread doesn't give you the right to throw people out of it because you don't agree with them.

You're moaning about £60 million despite the fact most people seem to think a £60 million investment is not so bad in this instance as we've been sending £750 million to India every year despite the fact they're rich enough to have their own space programme. Drawing a comparison to money that some view is wasted abroad while you're moaning about investment in this country is relevant to the conversation.

I'm not throwing you out?...
I'm not 'moaning' I started a discussion, the foreign aid budget is there for all to see, this large investment wasn't that is the major difference.
Suggesting we don't sent money to johnny foreigner doesn't change the fact that this was I feel a pretty dodgy investment.

[Livia]

Meh just take it out the foreign aid budget....

LOL...

[Livia]

I'm not throwing you out?...
I'm not 'moaning' I started a discussion, the foreign aid budget is there for all to see, this large investment wasn't that is the major difference.
Suggesting we don't sent money to johnny foreigner doesn't change the fact that this was I feel a pretty dodgy investment.

Johnny Foreigner? Smacks of "you're a xenophobe".

I feel it wasn't at all a dodgy investment, and I'm apparently not alone.

[Northern Monkey]

I'm not throwing you out?...
I'm not 'moaning' I started a discussion, the foreign aid budget is there for all to see, this large investment wasn't that is the major difference.
Suggesting we don't sent money to johnny foreigner doesn't change the fact that this was I feel a pretty dodgy investment.

You won't be saying that when you're flying around the earth at supersonic speeds mirin the stars.

[Kizzy]

Johnny Foreigner? Smacks of "you're a xenophobe".

I feel it wasn't at all a dodgy investment, and I'm apparently not alone.

What words are you putting in my mouth now? I appreciate you think it's a good investment.

[Livia]

What words are you putting in my mouth now? I appreciate you think it's a good investment.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, just gently trying to encourage you not to throw a veiled insult and then deny it. It's annoying.

Yes, I think it's a good investment.

[Kizzy]

I'm not putting words in your mouth, just gently trying to encourage you not to throw a veiled insult and then deny it. It's annoying.

Yes, I think it's a good investment.

It's another colloquialism used to describe anyone from anywhere who isn't British.
It's annoying explaining myself due to accusation and manipulation of my posts.

[Livia]

It's another colloquialism used to describe anyone from anywhere who isn't British.
It's annoying explaining myself due to accusation and manipulation of my posts.

Yeah I understand. It's annoying having to work out exactly what you mean sometimes. You see, "Johnny Foreigner" is indeed used to denote anyone not British, but it's only really used by people who are either taking the micky or who are a bit racist. So it's strange to see you use it in any other way.

Anyhoo... I think I've said all I have to say about this welcome investment news.

[Kizzy]

Yeah I understand. It's annoying having to work out exactly what you mean sometimes. You see, "Johnny Foreigner" is indeed used to denote anyone not British, but it's only really used by people who are either taking the micky or who are a bit racist. So it's strange to see you use it in any other way.

Anyhoo... I think I've said all I have to say about this welcome investment news.

Happy to explain things to you Liv, anytime you're confused I'm here.

[Kizzy]

BAE are getting a 20% share in the company for their £20 million, what are British taxpayers getting for £60 million.....a wing?

My guess? Big fat nothing.

[Livia]

Happy to explain things to you Liv, anytime you're confused I'm here.

Just be clearer, no one will need to explain anything to anyone.

[Kizzy]

Just be clearer, no one will need to explain anything to anyone.

What do you want a written disclaimer...A note from my mum?
Anyhoo so as to not derail the thread anymore I get your point I get your view on the topic too so thank you for that.

[Livia]

What do you want a written disclaimer...A note from my mum?
Anyhoo so as to not derail the thread anymore I get your point I get your view on the topic too so thank you for that.

You're welcome.

[Kizzy]

You're welcome.

Anytime.

[Marsh.]

:worry:

[Livia]

LOL... "Last Word" Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

I'll allow it, save you derailing the thread any longer Livia :)

[Livia]

The government spends billion on research and development and quite right. Other countries invest in their own future, we'd be pretty stupid not to do the same.

[Kizzy]

What is the benefit, If private industry invest they get a return... where is the return?
It's nothing but a gamble, there are no assurances this thing will ever get off the ground.

[Marsh.]

Nothing in this life is a certainty. Only death. :)

[Livia]

What is the benefit, If private industry invest they get a return... where is the return?
It's nothing but a gamble, there are no assurances this thing will ever get off the ground.

Well... jobs for one. We need jobs. And exports of course. And selling our expertise as well as actual goods... there's a long list. I'm sure they rarely throw money at projects that are not likely to get off the ground. That said, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

[Kizzy]

Well... jobs for one. We need jobs. And exports of course. And selling our expertise as well as actual goods... there's a long list. I'm sure they rarely throw money at projects that are not likely to get off the ground. That said, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

"The Department for Work and Pensions has spent £700 million on Universal Credit since the programme began in 2010. However, very little progress has been achieved on the front line. Fewer than 18,000 people were claiming Universal Credit by October 2014, out of around seven million expected in the longer term – just 0.3% of the eligible population.

We hope the Department’s expectation that this number will rise significantly by February 2016 proves to be accurate.

As the Department has justified this spending on the promise of benefits in the future – such as from higher employment - rather than on the actual delivery of benefits to date, we simply cannot judge the value for money of this expenditure at this stage.

The IT infrastructure for Universal Credit continues to be of particular concern. The Department has spent £344 million with suppliers developing its 'live' service systems for claimants who have straightforward initial claims which do not involve all 6 benefits, yet it expects to re-use just £34 million worth of this IT in the longer term.


http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-accounts-committee/news/report-universal-credit-progress-update/


As we can see they are very good at wasting money... too good. penny wise and pound foolish as my dad would say.

Thinking about jobs and exports is very premature.

[Livia]

That's as irrelevant to this discussion as the talk of foreign aid. And it seems it's only you, Kizzy, who thinks that for some reason this money should not have been used for this purpose. As for thinking of jobs and exports being premature, well, it's all about investment and forward planning.

[Kizzy]

That's as irrelevant to this discussion as the talk of foreign aid. And it seems it's only you, Kizzy, who thinks that for some reason this money should not have been used for this purpose. As for thinking of jobs and exports being premature, well, it's all about investment and forward planning.

You said they rarely threw money at projects..... I posted an example of just that.
I stand by the fact that during this time of austerity gifting 60 million of taxpayers money is not wise.
Again the dream that this will ever fly is more pie in the sky than forward planning

[Livia]

You said they rarely threw money at projects..... I posted an example of just that.
I stand by the fact that during this time of austerity gifting 60 million of taxpayers money is not wise.
Again the dream that this will ever fly is more pie in the sky than forward planning

Perhaps you'd rather some other country invested in it and we buy the technology from them at retail rates.

Investing in the future is not "gifting" anyone anything.

[Kizzy]

Perhaps you'd rather some other country invested in it and we buy the technology from them at retail rates.

Investing in the future is not "gifting" anyone anything.

of a £220 million requirement for phase 3 of a project, we put in £60 million.
There is no end product/ technology guaranteed, it's simply a punt on a concept at this stage.

[Johnnyuk123]

Ah so that's not a different matter... ok, it's not manipulating the conversation to suit an agenda?
If you have a problem with the foreign aid budget start your own thread.

650 million given to India each year when they have their own space program and don't need the cash makes me uncomfortable. That amount would really benefit the NHS.