Will David Cameron be the ruin of this country?

[DemolitionRed]

Is this man really fit to be our PM any more?

[MTVN]

I think this is what you call a loaded question

I will just say that no, he will not be the ruin of the country and leave it at that

[Kizzy]

I'll say no ..........doubt about it.

[Dollface]

I'll say no ..........doubt about it.

:laugh:

[Tom4784]

He's one of the worst PMs we've ever had, Let's hope he gets a vote of no confidence sooner rather than later.

[joeysteele]

I would have said he was never fit to run the country,I never believed his so called dedication to the NHS which was why I could not vote for him in 2010.

Since then as to judgement of people and policies,I have seen nothing really to alter my view of him.
Then the rotten heartlessness this govt,led by him has shown to the sick,disabled, and most vulnerable should be against peoples human rights in my view.

However,he has narrowly this time just escaped presiding over the break up of the United Kingdom had Scotland voted for same.
However that still may yet be something he faces again before he clears off for good.

He could also yet sleepwalk the UK out of the EU which in my view would be a total disaster taking the UK into a whole uncharted territory in the World with no guarantees of security as to same.
So yes he has the most potential of any Prime Minister post war to be the ruin of the United Kingdom and the Nations that make up the UK.


His bad judgements and worst of all his procrastination as to making policy on a whim and planning it for the far future, hoping it will somehow disappear is not a trait a PM should have and for me,I say unreservedly,he has discredited as to any decency,(with his policies for the weakest in society), the office of PM of the United Kingdom.

[Kizzy]

I'd like to hear a few positives... All I've heard is redirection, spin and downright lies.
What's good about a conservative govt, what have we gotten, achieved or proven?

[lewis111]

He's not great but he's not Donald Trump, we could have worse
And it depends what you mean by "country" as some may see that as the people, pay gaps, food bank usage etc. and some may see that as how well the country is doing business wise and economically if you know what I mean

[the truth]

He's not great but he's not Donald Trump, we could have worse
And it depends what you mean by "country" as some may see that as the people, pay gaps, food bank usage etc. and some may see that as how well the country is doing business wise and economically if you know what I mean

ahh the easy don trump cheap laughs.....at least he wouldn't sell us out to the chinese

[Kizzy]

He's not great but he's not Donald Trump, we could have worse
And it depends what you mean by "country" as some may see that as the people, pay gaps, food bank usage etc. and some may see that as how well the country is doing business wise and economically if you know what I mean

Ok let's take economically wise, how are we doing. Even if you ignore people wise are we doing well?

[King Gizzard]

Osbourne more so

[joeysteele]

Osbourne more so

I don't think there is anything or at best very much between the two of them but yes I agree.

[MTVN]

Yeah Osborne's legacy will be bigger than Camerons. He's the brains behind economic policy, most of their long-term policies and is likely to be next leader.

Cameron will go down as an average Prime Minister IMO. He has overseen a solid - though by no means bulletproof - recovery, sought to modernise the party through initiatives like gay marriage and increased female representation, and overall been a very pragmatic leader who has ensured stable government even in a coalition. At other times its true that he has dithered, had several fiascos like tax credits and the Syria vote, he seems to lack any real convictions and he hasn't been able to fulfil a lot of his stated aims

An average leader? Yes. I can even see the case for people who would say he is a bad one. But ruin of the country? That's just sensationalism, and its not a view that would find much credence in any serious commentary.

[user104658]

He's helped to craft the mirage of a recovery MTVN; to call it "solid" is, at the very least, jumping the gun. Let's look back on it in ten years and then judge what sort of a recovery we've had, if any.

[MTVN]

He's helped to craft the mirage of a recovery MTVN; to call it "solid" is, at the very least, jumping the gun. Let's look back on it in ten years and then judge what sort of a recovery we've had, if any.

All things considered it is fairly solid, and compared to the rest of Europe we're in ok shape. Its not completely secure no but then it's hard to have any recovery that is that secure when we're as exposed as we are to world markets and the global economy, and that's just a fact of life now really.

[Kizzy]

Yeah Osborne's legacy will be bigger than Camerons. He's the brains behind economic policy, most of their long-term policies and is likely to be next leader.

Cameron will go down as an average Prime Minister IMO. He has overseen a solid - though by no means bulletproof - recovery, sought to modernise the party through initiatives like gay marriage and increased female representation, and overall been a very pragmatic leader who has ensured stable government even in a coalition. At other times its true that he has dithered, had several fiascos like tax credits and the Syria vote, he seems to lack any real convictions and he hasn't been able to fulfil a lot of his stated aims

An average leader? Yes. I can even see the case for people who would say he is a bad one. But ruin of the country? That's just sensationalism, and its not a view that would find much credence in any serious commentary.

I beg to differ, I'd say judging by the evidence of what's happened to the country since the election the rest of his term fills me with dread, I don't think we've seen anything yet.

[the truth]

hes not as bad as blair and brown but he had the ability perhaps an certainly the opportunity to make things a lot better....but hes really playing a bad hand lately........tax credits disaster....disability bashing disaster...Europe hes all over the place but hes really a euro sheep and wants us to stay in , but hes failing to fight for our rights
his one size all benefit is a disaster, his housing benefit payments direct to tenants is a disaster...then again welsh labour are even worse....theyre demanding 3 different landlord licenses...theyre cutting the nhs budget, covering up the failures..theyve even taken over the Cardiff airport with dreadful results? wales is basically a communist failure now.....the welsh gdp per head is now the lowest in Europe
neither tories or welsh labour have don't anything to help the industries or agriculture...were enslaved to massive cororations and the Chinese

both parties are a failure for the sick, the disabled, the elderly and the lowly paid

[Scarlett.]

Yeah Osborne's legacy will be bigger than Camerons. He's the brains behind economic policy, most of their long-term policies and is likely to be next leader.

Cameron will go down as an average Prime Minister IMO. He has overseen a solid - though by no means bulletproof - recovery, sought to modernise the party through initiatives like gay marriage and increased female representation, and overall been a very pragmatic leader who has ensured stable government even in a coalition. At other times its true that he has dithered, had several fiascos like tax credits and the Syria vote, he seems to lack any real convictions and he hasn't been able to fulfil a lot of his stated aims

An average leader? Yes. I can even see the case for people who would say he is a bad one. But ruin of the country? That's just sensationalism, and its not a view that would find much credence in any serious commentary.

Thanks to fudged employment numbers.

Sure, they can say "look at all these people back in work" but really, we all know that most of those people are on £2.80 per hour "apprenticeships" or putting people who cannot find a job into "workfare placements", with both of these schemes meaning less people being payed the full legal minimum wage. The recovery is pure bull****, and everyone knows it, we never really left the recession, we just learned how to pause it.

[bots]

David Cameron is a figurehead for the tory party, and more than that, he will only be pm for about another year or so, so, no he won't. As a tory supporter, i don't like Cameron, but lets be quite frank, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were much more sinister with respect to the economy, personal liberties and many more aspects of our daily lives. Blair also led the way on the corruption that is now prevalent amongst our mp's.

What the tories have done since coming to power has been tame compared to the previous labour government.

[arista]

I think this is what you call a loaded question

I will just say that no, he will not be the ruin of the country and leave it at that


Bang On Right

[joeysteele]

I beg to differ, I'd say judging by the evidence of what's happened to the country since the election the rest of his term fills me with dread, I don't think we've seen anything yet.

It fills me with dismay that whatever the recovery is which is in the main service based, which is often the weakest recoveries you get,that it is hailed a success when people who are most vulnerable sick and disabled are having their real funding cut.
As well as being demoralised with stupid form filling with some of the most ridiculous questions possible, and pathetic re-assessments of their health, people with terminal cancer being wheeled into the centres to be interviewed b a so called jumped up professional, wearing them down with questions.
I seen it and been appalled by it.
I am filled with fear for those people at the prospect of any more time with this heartless bunch of cowards who can only hit the weakest,never mind nearly 5 more years of them.

I go back to the point I made before, he almost presided over the Scots leaving what is the UK,by his rushing to try to pacify his extreme element as to the EU, and promising a referendum. he has now for the last 2 years and maybe 2 years more, cast a cloud over our membership of the EU.
A referendum, which were it be a vote to leave and I can see that being carried by the more selfish element of voters in the far South of England,then that could trigger the Scots to another independence referendum.

I said he had the potential to be the ruin of the UK,well if the vote was to leave the EU,then the Scots hold another independence vote and vote to split the UK.
Then he will not just have presided over ruining the UK but will have destroyed it, as without Scotland there really is no UK left in reality.

History I feel pretty sure will with full analysis wonder why this man could ever get to hold the highest office in the Country and IF, what I say above could happen does, then he will surely go down as the man who wrecked the United Kingdom that we have had for hundreds of years.

It always mystifies me how it can be talked about a recovery,when this man is in part building that recovery off the backs off the sick,disabled and most vulnerable by taking off them.
In any decent society,that should be unacceptable anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

[waterhog]

he will not ruin this country but create a bigger divide between the rich and the poor which in turn makes a angry society which is in no way in the best interest of the country.

the rich will get richer but that happened under labor as well.

[lostalex]

Considering the history of Britain, i seriously doubt he is strong, powerful or clever enough to "ruin" the UK. The Uk has made some seriously big blunders, committed atrocities on a giant scale, and suffered HUGE setbacks in the past. Cameron is small potatoes considering the scale of problems Britain has faced in the past. i am confident, that the UK (as well as the US and most of western Europe) has faced much more trying times in the past, and he could'nt "ruin" the UK even if he was actually trying to. That is the power of democracy.

Did George Bush "ruin" the US? no, we are still the strongest nation in the world and getting stronger everyday. If W Bush couldn't "ruin" the US, the worst president in modern American history, then Cameron doesn't even have a chance of "ruining" the UK.

now Corbyn??? that's a different question. there is something about him that seems more sinister.

[DemolitionRed]

Wow, this threads really taken off.
Thanks for all the interesting responses. I'll join in once my working days over.

[kirklancaster]

For the sake of brevity - just TWO words; 'VIABLE' and 'ALTERNATIVE'.

[kirklancaster]

Considering the history of Britain, i seriously doubt he is strong, powerful or clever enough to "ruin" the UK. The Uk has made some seriously big blunders, committed atrocities on a giant scale, and suffered HUGE setbacks in the past. Cameron is small potatoes considering the scale of problems Britain has faced in the past. i am confident, that the UK (as well as the US and most of western Europe) has faced much more trying times in the past, and he could'nt "ruin" the UK even if he was actually trying to. That is the power of democracy.

Did George Bush "ruin" the US? no, we are still the strongest nation in the world and getting stronger everyday. If W Bush couldn't "ruin" the US, the worst president in modern American history, then Cameron doesn't even have a chance of "ruining" the UK.

now Corbyn??? that's a different question. there is something about him that seems more sinister.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[kirklancaster]

Yeah Osborne's legacy will be bigger than Camerons. He's the brains behind economic policy, most of their long-term policies and is likely to be next leader.

Cameron will go down as an average Prime Minister IMO. He has overseen a solid - though by no means bulletproof - recovery, sought to modernise the party through initiatives like gay marriage and increased female representation, and overall been a very pragmatic leader who has ensured stable government even in a coalition. At other times its true that he has dithered, had several fiascos like tax credits and the Syria vote, he seems to lack any real convictions and he hasn't been able to fulfil a lot of his stated aims

An average leader? Yes. I can even see the case for people who would say he is a bad one. But ruin of the country? That's just sensationalism, and its not a view that would find much credence in any serious commentary.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[joeysteele]

Considering the history of Britain, i seriously doubt he is strong, powerful or clever enough to "ruin" the UK. The Uk has made some seriously big blunders, committed atrocities on a giant scale, and suffered HUGE setbacks in the past. Cameron is small potatoes considering the scale of problems Britain has faced in the past. i am confident, that the UK (as well as the US and most of western Europe) has faced much more trying times in the past, and he could'nt "ruin" the UK even if he was actually trying to. That is the power of democracy.

Did George Bush "ruin" the US? no, we are still the strongest nation in the world and getting stronger everyday. If W Bush couldn't "ruin" the US, the worst president in modern American history, then Cameron doesn't even have a chance of "ruining" the UK.

now Corbyn??? that's a different question. there is something about him that seems more sinister.

Lostalex, I do read your posts and the vast majority of the time I agree with them too.
However the USA,great Nation that it is, is very different from the UK.
Also, I don't recall hearing about any States of the USA actually wanting to break away and hold a referendum to do so from the USA.

The UK is made up of only 4 Nations,England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland,to lose a quarter of those Nations would be a disaster for the UK,yet it nearly came about, under this Prime Minister we have and this Govt.
The issue has not gone away either, his full promise to Scotland is still to be implemented to their satisfaction.
His messing about with the EU issue could well bring all back to the forefront as to Scottish independence if as a result of his dithering, the UK votes to leave the EU.
Were it to happen that then Scotland left, then there is not in reality a United Kingdom in place anymore.

As for Corbyn being sinister, well I would dispute that myself,I find far more sinister what this man as PM now is doing to the most vulnerable in the UK, than anything Corbyn may stand for to be honest.

[Jamie89]

As much as I'm interested in politics, I do get a bit lost with it sometimes, when it comes to a close analysis of one individual person and their policies for example. So I can't really get into the whole 'what has and hasn't he done for us' discussion. But from what I do know about him, I know that I don't like or respect him. I don't however think that he has the capability of ruining the country. Even though he's the leader, there's a whole government in place with lots of different people sharing different responsibilities. I know there's the whole 'captain going down with the ship' thing, but I think that if the country was to go to ruin (which I don't think it will anyway tbh) there would be many more people than just Cameron to blame.

[Kizzy]

Corbyn is sinister... is the fact that our current govt is being investigated by the UN for human rights violations not smack as sinister?

[bots]

Corbyn is sinister... is the fact that our current govt is being investigated by the UN for human rights violations not smack as sinister?

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

[joeysteele]

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

Then this lot should have learned the lesson from them then.Clearly they have ignored same.

[Kazanne]

The country was on the road to ruin way before Cameron was elected, I like him,he doesn't get everything right but I do think he is trying to get the country back on track,afterall what would he gain by doing things just to piss people off,he will never please everyone,but who can? I certainly wouldn't want his job,when every ill that befalls the country is blamed on him,so sorry guys,I voted for him and don't regret it,

[joeysteele]

I didn't vote for him, would never vote for him and will never in my whole life regret not doing so just for the rotten heartless things I have witnessed personally as to all he has done to those who are sick disabled and most vulnerable.

Also 'if' his referendum does result in an exit vote from the EU and then the Scots demand a new independence vote and then split, he will have for sure 'ruined' the United Kingdom because after that there will be no United Kingdom, just fragments he leaves of it.

[smudgie]

The country was on the road to ruin way before Cameron was elected, I like him,he doesn't get everything right but I do think he is trying to get the country back on track,afterall what would he gain by doing things just to piss people off,he will never please everyone,but who can? I certainly wouldn't want his job,when every ill that befalls the country is blamed on him,so sorry guys,I voted for him and don't regret it,

I have to agree Kaz.
If there was another election tomorrow then I would vote the same way again.
More so now that the clowns are in charge of the opposition.

[Kizzy]

Blair and the labour party were investigated for the same every other week.

Do you have any support for that claim?

[DemolitionRed]

All things considered it is fairly solid, and compared to the rest of Europe we're in ok shape. Its not completely secure no but then it's hard to have any recovery that is that secure when we're as exposed as we are to world markets and the global economy, and that's just a fact of life now really.

Toy Soldier is bang on right with that comment of his you quoted.

What's really alarming is, people still believe we are in okay shape. We are not and its got nothing to do with our global financialization and all to do with upping the percentage on this ludicrous 'austerity project'.

Consumerism is now at an all time low, government spending is at an all time low and so is the GDP. This sort of radical austerity plan that’s been going on over the past three and a bit years, has reduced growth so much that its undercut government revenue and if you undercut government revenue, its impossible to shrink the deficit. http://europeansnapshot.com/2013/08/

Its disturbing that the UK’s performance is worse than France. This is what the Wall Street Journal had to say about them this time last year. http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-descends-into-ridiculousness-1416254909

Between 2012 and 2013 the Conservatives suddenly appeared to see sense by considerably lowering their pull back on austerity. Our economy came out of stagnation and actually started to recover, things started looking up but when it came to Cameron's election campaign he promised his nation a further 2% cut in government spending and he lied to his nation by telling us all that 'austerity' was the ticket that had lifted our economy, when in fact it was the complete opposite.

Its not what Cameron and Osborne are doing to our economy that frightens me; its that people in general don't understand what they are doing or worse, they believe all this mess is for the greater good!. Whilst Joe public still blame the Labour party for the mess we now find ourselves in, (which makes zero sense) our present government are destroying the future of Britain, whilst reassuring us that its all going to plan.


https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

According to Oxfam
if these spending cuts continue 800,000 British children will live in poverty over the next decade.

Over 1.5 million working age adults will fall into extreme poverty.

and the bottom 10% of British earners will have seen their incomes fall 38% over this governments five year term.

What's sad is, the victims of this result will be many of the British people who presently believe Cameron and Osborne are harmless.

[Livia]

People on the right will say no and quote examples, people on the left will say yes, and quote examples.

[DemolitionRed]

Anyone who believes we need a vote of no confidence should sign this https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104471

[Kizzy]

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

[DemolitionRed]

oops!

[joeysteele]

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

It depends Kizzy on what some see as merit depending on who or what they care about.

People who are sick and poor are getting hammered by him and his govt so any success he is having is bought in a good part off the backs of the most vulnerable.
That is seen unbelievably as right and as success by some,(I honestly get more disillusioned by the UK day by day).
Well not so by me and it never will be by me, those people matter to me and those people literally got thrown into the lions den with not a scrap of hope at all in May by the 36.8% of voters who most of them likely couldn't care a toss about the vulnerable.

[user104658]

There are worse high-level Tories.

That's about the best that can be said for him.

[bots]

Then this lot should have learned the lesson from them then.Clearly they have ignored same.

its not the point. We don't subscribe to many edicts laid out by the UN or any other authority, so saying such and such an organisations investigating is entirely irrelevant. Its a simple fact that many of these organisations are on a planet of their own, and few if any subscribe to them.

[MTVN]

Toy Soldier is bang on right with that comment of his you quoted.

What's really alarming is, people still believe we are in okay shape. We are not and its got nothing to do with our global financialization and all to do with upping the percentage on this ludicrous 'austerity project'.

Consumerism is now at an all time low, government spending is at an all time low and so is the GDP. This sort of radical austerity plan that’s been going on over the past three and a bit years, has reduced growth so much that its undercut government revenue and if you undercut government revenue, its impossible to shrink the deficit. http://europeansnapshot.com/2013/08/

Its disturbing that the UK’s performance is worse than France. This is what the Wall Street Journal had to say about them this time last year. http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-descends-into-ridiculousness-1416254909

Between 2012 and 2013 the Conservatives suddenly appeared to see sense by considerably lowering their pull back on austerity. Our economy came out of stagnation and actually started to recover, things started looking up but when it came to Cameron's election campaign he promised his nation a further 2% cut in government spending and he lied to his nation by telling us all that 'austerity' was the ticket that had lifted our economy, when in fact it was the complete opposite.

Its not what Cameron and Osborne are doing to our economy that frightens me; its that people in general don't understand what they are doing or worse, they believe all this mess is for the greater good!. Whilst Joe public still blame the Labour party for the mess we now find ourselves in, (which makes zero sense) our present government are destroying the future of Britain, whilst reassuring us that its all going to plan.


https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf

According to Oxfam
if these spending cuts continue 800,000 British children will live in poverty over the next decade.

Over 1.5 million working age adults will fall into extreme poverty.

and the bottom 10% of British earners will have seen their incomes fall 38% over this governments five year term.

What's sad is, the victims of this result will be many of the British people who presently believe Cameron and Osborne are harmless.

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

[bots]

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

well said sir

[Kizzy]

It depends Kizzy on what some see as merit depending on who or what they care about.

People who are sick and poor are getting hammered by him and his govt so any success he is having is bought in a good part off the backs of the most vulnerable.
That is seen unbelievably as right and as success by some,(I honestly get more disillusioned by the UK day by day).
Well not so by me and it never will be by me, those people matter to me and those people literally got thrown into the lions den with not a scrap of hope at all in May by the 36.8% of voters who most of them likely couldn't care a toss about them..

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

[kirklancaster]

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

Brilliantly put MTVN.

[Kizzy]

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

What is the deficit?....

[joeysteele]

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

I agree with you Kizzy,I am glad you are on here or I'd likely go insane on this.

The only change I would make to your post is a good number of that 36.8% will rue the day but only once it hits them in their pocket or personally.
Most of tem are not bothered about the devastation being inflicted on the vulnerable, who now are having likely the covering of cost of their just appeals as to loss of benefits taken away by this wretched excuse for a govt.
meaning even being poor, they lose now the right to justice.

[DemolitionRed]

It's not disturbing at all. It's well known now that France has got its act together since the difficult times you refer to there and that their economy has improved significantly in the last year.

Judge our country against most indicators of a solid economy and across the board we're in ok shape: employment is up, growth continues even if it slowed in the last quarter, the pound is strong, inflation is not a concern, business investment is increasing, and earnings and household spending have been slowly picking up as well. I'm hardly claiming the Tories have performed miracles but overall it's not bad. Barring another global shock - which is of course possible - we are very unlikely to be in serious trouble anytime soon. Sorry if that makes me just another ignorant member of Joe Public but it is possible that other people have also read widely and come to different conclusions to you.

Yes France is up now but we are in the same if not worse position since that article was written.

Down in the last quarter? what does that tell us? This re-pull on austerity is once again causing a downward trend and the longer it goes on, the worse it gets.

I don't believe the Tories will continue doing what they are doing because they know the long term damage it will cause, but they also use this stance on austerity as one of their big advertising slogans so just like they didn't tell us back in 2012-13 they will keep it under their belt again.

Edited to say, We are being played with. The government are relying on our ignorance.

[DemolitionRed]

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

21 pre-election promises broken in such a short time. Its as though they are sprinting towards a final goal post with sledgehammers in their hands. What is their end goal? I'm baffled by the way Cameron is behaving at the moment. That man is a liar; he’s a propaganda profiteer who has successfully created the peasants to revolt against the peasants.

We all know the countries in a mess but most of us seem to think it’s either the scrounging unemployed and immigrants fault or Gordon Browns. This government relies on our ignorance.

[bots]

Yes France is up now but we are in the same if not worse position since that article was written.

Down in the last quarter? what does that tell us? This re-pull on austerity is once again causing a downward trend and the longer it goes on, the worse it gets.

I don't believe the Tories will continue doing what they are doing because they know the long term damage it will cause, but they also use this stance on austerity as one of their big advertising slogans so just like they didn't tell us back in 2012-13 they will keep it under their belt again.

Edited to say, We are being played with. The government are relying on our ignorance.

With respect, i've seen many replies on this thread taking an opposite stance in this to yourself, none of them ignorant.

I think you do the British people a great disservice, they are a lot more informed than you think, and shouldn't be judged ignorant because their views differ from yours

[joeysteele]

21 pre-election promises broken in such a short time. Its as though they are sprinting towards a final goal post with sledgehammers in their hands. What is their end goal? I'm baffled by the way Cameron is behaving at the moment. That man is a liar; he’s a propaganda profiteer who has successfully created the peasants to revolt against the peasants.

We all know the countries in a mess but most of us seem to think it’s either the scrounging unemployed and immigrants fault or Gordon Browns. This government relies on our ignorance.

Really glad you are on here too DR.
I am not really someone who should comment on Cameron because I dislike the man as a politician intensely.
His lies as to the NHS and that top down re-organisation at massive cost is just one of the many things I will never forgive him for.

I agree with you,he is a political liar and of the worst kind in my view, his word not to be trusted on near anything.

This post and you earlier post are well balanced and spot on.
Again well said.

[DemolitionRed]

With respect, i've seen many replies on this thread taking an opposite stance in this to yourself, none of them ignorant.

I think you do the British people a great disservice, they are a lot more informed than you think, and shouldn't be judged ignorant because their views differ from yours

If someone has good reason to vote conservative, which I'm sure there are many (depending on how these policies benefit them), then fine, but when people rattle on about immigration and benefit scroungers being the biggest ill of this country, then I stand by what I said.

'Ignorance' as used in my post, means lack of knowledge or information on a subject. What it doesn't mean, though people have the right to interpret this word out of context if they are looking to be offended, is foolishness, slow-wittedness or dimness.

Edited to say: How many times on here have Corbyn supporters been called idiots, fools or bonkers? I'm not about to trudge through the archives but if I did, I'd know which posters history to search. Frankly, those comments don't ruin my day :)

[DemolitionRed]

Really glad you are on here too DR.
I am not really someone who should comment on Cameron because I dislike the man as a politician intensely.
His lies as to the NHS and that top down re-organisation at massive cost is just one of the many things I will never forgive him for.

I agree with you,he is a political liar and of the worst kind in my view, his word not to be trusted on near anything.

This post and you earlier post are well balanced and spot on.
Again well said.

Thanks Joey and ditto.

You can't debate politics if you can't discuss both sides and most debates on politics tend to get very passionate and heated so I guess you have to be thick skinned ;). You absolutely should be able to voice your opinion on Cameron and on Cameron supporters for that matter because if you can't do that, you may as well take up knitting and stay well clear of political debate.

[joeysteele]

Thanks Joey and ditto.

You can't debate politics if you can't discuss both sides and most debates on politics tend to get very passionate and heated so I guess you have to be thick skinned ;). You absolutely should be able to voice your opinion on Cameron and on Cameron supporters for that matter because if you can't do that, you may as well take up knitting and stay well clear of political debate.

I agree again.

When I was aged up to 17 I would have been termed a Conservative DR,I actually was strongly supportive to the coalition and hoped for good things from it.
However in 2010,I was concerned,as a lot of my family work in the NHS,whether David Cameron could be trusted with it,something made me not trust him and I voted Lib Dem.

Than as you point out we saw the many failures to hit every economic target set by 'themselves'.
With budget targets revised downwards in the Autumn and the Autumn targets revised downwards again in the next budget.
Then the obscene unnecessary and costly demoralising NHS top down re-organisation that was 'promised' to be never going to happen by Cameron.
Finally the bedroom tax, that was the final thing on top of all the benefit changes and persecution, victimisation and demonisation that was then in place against the most vulnerable in society.
With the whipping up of the divide and conquer stance of turning working people against those needing benefits.

That was when I looked elsewhere and although I was never anti Labour, I found they had the policies more suited to how I viewed how society should be especially to the protection and respect for the dignity of people who are sick, disabled and vulnerable.

Since then some have fired loony left at me, have been told my posts are nonsense,have been told things like food banks are not as stated just because some people have not seen one or seen what happens at one, while I have.
All in the main from Conservative supporters.

I don't change allegiances lightly,just because Corbyn got elected as leader that would not make me run off, it is the policies, the thinking and base of the planning of policies that matter to me.
The building up of the sick and disabled and most vulnerable, not grinding them down, the plan to bring social care and general care together in the NHS.
AS for these austerity cuts, they proved a disastrous between 2010 and 2015 and it may well be that history repeats itself again as to that.

Now the real acidic and in my view unjust attacks on Corbyn have become widespread, yet the policies remain in the planning stage with that base of respect for the dignity of the most vulnerable so I do consider a lot of the attacks as unfair.
I am quite thick skinned and believe me off here,even in my family they get it all guns blazing as to what I believe should be done.
However the written word is hard to express as to tone which is frustrating.

I am mystified anyone can call what this govt is doing as of merit and as to being successful,when all it is doing is executing a set of truly cowardly and bullying policies,designed to grind the most vulnerable into the ground they are walking on, to make the sick and disabled feel like second class citizens and then planning to build a surplus before you make sure 'all' are fully protected before you do the policies needed to bring a surplus about.
This govt acts with a pack mentality against the 'annoying to them' poorest and weakest, sick and disabled of the Nation.

A cowardly bunch of bullies who set out to make sure the strongest and richest get more or are protected while the weakest get ridiculed and crushed,
Yet you read from some, that is him and this vile govt doing good for the Country and worthy of praise and merit,even deemed as success.
Well it makes me feel ashamed and sick.
I said ages ago for his lack of any compassion and decency, this PM has brought down the office of PM of the UK and in my view will continue to do so right until at last he departs the political stage and hopefully for good.

Unfortunately leaving possibly as bad but even worse to come after him if the Theresa May, Osborne or Johnson take over after him.
So I will get behind Labour and Corbyn in the hope for more policies across the board of compassion, understanding, fairness,justice and respect for all citizens of the UK, and not just for the strongest and richest.

[Jamie89]

If someone has good reason to vote conservative, which I'm sure there are many (depending on how these policies benefit them), then fine, but when people rattle on about immigration and benefit scroungers being the biggest ill of this country, then I stand by what I said.

'Ignorance' as used in my post, means lack of knowledge or information on a subject. What it doesn't mean, though people have the right to interpret this word out of context if they are looking to be offended, is foolishness, slow-wittedness or dimness.

Edited to say: How many times on here have Corbyn supporters been called idiots, fools or bonkers? I'm not about to trudge through the archives but if I did, I'd know which posters history to search. Frankly, those comments don't ruin my day :)

Just as a side note to this, my mum has voted labour all her life because that's how she was brought up, and when I was growing up she'd always say how against the conservatives she was. But in the last election she actually voted for Cameron, and her reason? Because she's getting older and she heard somewhere that older people tend to lean more towards the conservatives! :joker: :facepalm: I couldn't believe it. It had nothing to do with policies or her own beliefs or anything, just hearsay. It's a good example i think that not all voters are informed (sorry mum!) in fact I'd say that you lot are probably in the minority.

[user104658]

Just as a side note to this, my mum has voted labour all her life because that's how she was brought up, and when I was growing up she'd always say how against the conservatives she was. But in the last election she actually voted for Cameron, and her reason? Because she's getting older and she heard somewhere that older people tend to lean more towards the conservatives! :joker: :facepalm: I couldn't believe it. It had nothing to do with policies or her own beliefs or anything, just hearsay.

It was a great plan, they've done wonders for the elderly and pensions... ... D:

It's a good example i think that not all voters are informed (sorry mum!) in fact I'd say that you lot are probably in the minority.

I keep saying this and similar on here but am often shot down with assurances that the majority of people are politically aware. I was starting to think that I was living in some sort of alternative reality bubble, because in my experience 75% of people have no idea and aren't really interested :joker:

[DemolitionRed]

Great post Joey, you will make a politician yet!
In the time I’ve known you on here, you have stuck to your principles and I for one, think those principles are genuinely based on compassion towards a working class and middle class Britain. Regardless of what fence you sit on though, I’d enjoy debating with you, simply because of the substance you put into what you write.

Most people who vote and especially those who don’t bother turning up to vote, do so (or don’t bother) because whatever is happening in Britain hasn’t infringed on their own personal lives or at least they believe it hasn’t. Most people lean towards the party their regular paper believe in and most people who read the Daily Mail or The Guardian, come from families and hang around with friends who read similar or the same paper; so when people talk about popular opinion, they generally mean popular opinion between their peers and relatives.

I spent years as a LibDem supporter. I was raised with their sort of principles and because both my husband and farther were regular attendees at their old headquarters in Cowley St, I was able to attend some of their functions, which inevitably strengthened my support for them. If they had stayed out of the coalition, I’d likely still be supporting them but what I see now is a party with no point and although I’m told that they are now re-grouping out of the limelight, I don’t believe they will ever re-morph into what they once were.

I had no interest in the Blairite type NL and the Conservative party didn’t overly worry me but I will admit to initially being quite excited at the prospects of coalition government. I have though, always had a fascination with Marxist philosophy (which a lot of people confuse with Russian type communism ;)) and so when Corbyn came along, my interest in British politics was re-kindled.

By the way…friends and family have tried teasing me by calling me a Marxist. I just smile sweetly and ask them to explain what they mean, which of course they can’t!

[DemolitionRed]

Jamie, I think that is fairly typical. Saying that NL were just a party who aligned themselves with the right and so it was a really difficult choice in these last elections.

Out of interest, what does she think of Corbyn ?

[Kizzy]

Jamie your mother may well be right, is she a homeowner?
That was said to 'turn people conservative directly', as that is the ideal the property owning capitalist ethos maybe she's heard this somewhere.
Or the theory of bourgeoisification?

[Kizzy]

David isn't satisfied with ruining the country... He want's to ruin Europe too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-europe

Here is his letter of renegotiation.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/nov/10/camerons-eu-renegotiation-tusk-letter-out-eu-renegotiation-demands-politics-live

[Jamie89]

Out of interest, what does she think of Corbyn ?

She doesn't really think anything of him. When I was younger both my parents were very politically minded and were always discussing the parties at election time etc and drumming it into us that politics is important, but over the last few years they've both completely lost interest. I find it really weird, but I think it's a case of disenchantment. But even though they're not interested anymore, they'll still vote, because they always have.

Jamie your mother may well be right, is she a homeowner?
That was said to 'turn people conservative directly', as that is the ideal the property owning capitalist ethos maybe she's heard this somewhere.
Or the theory of bourgeoisification?

She is a homeowner yes but to be honest, even if the conservatives do have policies that would benefit her, that's just a happy coincidence, because she really has no idea what they stand for or what their policies are.

I'm gonna print this thread and show it to her haha!

[Kizzy]

Maybe it simply was a case of better the devil you know?...
It is well known that as people grow older they become more conservative in their outlook, as they accumulate property and possessions, the right are seen as the party of the family unit and the protectors of traditional values.
Except now they aren't.

[Kizzy]

Sir Bill Cash, a Conservative, says the proposals are a “pig in a poke”. Almost all of the proposals will require treaty change. But that is not on offer, so how will the government get the guarantees it wants.

enoughway ithway hetay igpay okesjay!

[joeysteele]

Sir Bill Cash, a Conservative, says the proposals are a “pig in a poke”. Almost all of the proposals will require treaty change. But that is not on offer, so how will the government get the guarantees it wants.

enoughway ithway hetay igpay okesjay!

They are all things he has talked about for the last year,he has been planning this for nearly 3 years now and this is the best he can come up with.
I tell you this, nothing he said today will heal the divisions in the Conservative party on Europe and could even make things worse.

This man is a political danger to himself never mind the UK and the EU.

[DemolitionRed]

I agree with Bagehot at the Economist; " Cameron has now committed himself to phoney renegotiations."

[MTVN]

He won't get everything he wants but some of the demands are moderate enough to get a favourable reception and at least he can then say he's done something. And at least he's trying: pretty much everyone agrees that the EU in its current state has a lot of flaws that serious need to be addressed if it wants to survive. We're not the only country who wants different terms: there is plenty of sympathy for the UK's aims in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and elsewhere.

[JoshBB]

Ruin? Well, not completely. But he is undoubtedly one of the worst prime ministers we've had, second only to thatcher herself.

[Kizzy]

He won't get everything he wants but some of the demands are moderate enough to get a favourable reception and at least he can then say he's done something. And at least he's trying: pretty much everyone agrees that the EU in its current state has a lot of flaws that serious need to be addressed if it wants to survive. We're not the only country who wants different terms: there is plenty of sympathy for the UK's aims in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and elsewhere.

I'll wager that support is firmly in one area.

[Kizzy]

“cold advisers of yet colder kings” who “coolly sharpen misery’s sharpest fang … regardless of the poor man’s pang”,

[joeysteele]

Ruin? Well, not completely. But he is undoubtedly one of the worst prime ministers we've had, second only to thatcher herself.

I would say Josh that she was miles better than him, she was right in her reforms of the Unions.
She knew when to stop however and not go too far.
She was wrong on many issues but one thing can be said for her, she never set out and persecuted,victimised,demonised and piled pressure on the sick,disabled and most vulnerable like this PM has.

Whatever the views on her,at least she held on to some decency and justice unlike this waste of space we have now in Cameron.

[bots]

I really don't get everyone's gripe with Cameron and the EU. If he wins concessions, they will be good for the interests of the UK. If the EU don't budge, on their heads be it when we get an opportunity to vote

[lostalex]

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

[joeysteele]

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

That is the case for many absolutely however this man's policies are taking more and more of those beds away from those who are the weakest and poorest.
His obscene and unjust bedroom tax still causing massive problems for those at the fare end of the scale.
People he does not a thing to help with and indeed looks for more rotten policies to make their lives,whether they be poor or vulnerable or even sick and disabled a massive struggle.
Even removing care from those who need assistance at home
Inflicting more and more financial burdens on them and now even attempting to make the financial position of even those in the lowest paid work harder,with his tax credit cutting plan.

Now, as for those with great wealth and even multiple houses, he will certainly be ensuring that they have nothing to worry about and that 'all' their homes and room is every house can be heated,that they can for sure sleep easy knowing he will not be doing anything as to policy that will reduce their status in the slightest.

I had all the things you list in your post above,which I have had all my life so far anyway.
I don't consider them a success even if everyone did have such things, I consider them a right that should be there for all citizens of the UK,anyone of great wealth or virtually no wealt too.
However, I have got out there myself and found endless people now for who even what you list above is fast becoming a pipedream.
Many may have a warm bed but not a warm room or warm house, due to having to watch funding as for heating.
The bedroom tax still taking off people who are poorest who are then left with little for even food.

The facts that anyone, let alone rising numbers, are in that situation is a failure of any govt, the last one we had just as for this one now.
There is nothing successful about preserving peoples rights, that should always be the right and decent thing to do anyway by anyone in power.

To not make sure the most vulnerable are fully protected and not made worse by policy making should be the standard duty of every PM and govt. This one is making things harder for those most vulnerable,all across the board and they know it is too.

Plenty of charities and welfare groups have warned this govt over the last 3 years at least of the devastation of their polices on the weakest, they take not a blind bit of notice.
If that to anyone could be termed success,then I say never ever in my book, never anywhere at anytime.
It should be a national scandal in fact never mind even be just thought of as any kind of success.

[Kizzy]

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

It's only by pure luck that I have been one of the lucky ones to keep my head above water if I'm honest.
As Joey said there are thousands that don't have the comfort of a 'home' as opposed to shelter due to Mr Cameron and the welfare reforms.
In this extremely wealthy country that is a damning indictment and proof of how ineffective he is.
If the country is burgeoning as is to be believed due to foreign investment then why are those at the poorest end of the spectrum being squeezed so mercilessly, why do austerity measures only apply to some people?

It's contradictory to harp on about the need to make tax credit savings and then reduce the higher rate of tax.
The warm bed scenario for many people is on a knife edge, the season of heat or eat is here again and many won't survive it.
I don't care if I'm accused of wringing my hands or whatever it's a fact that year on year the number of deaths across the UK attributed to living below the poverty line increases.

[Kizzy]

'George Osborne has suffered a political setback over his plans to cut working tax credits when a Conservative-controlled select committee condemned his proposed reforms and urged him to consider a pause to undertake a fundamental rethink of his priorities in reforming the welfare state.

In a report, the work and pensions select committee argues that a slower phasing in of the tax credit cuts would compromise neither the government’s commitment to cut spending on welfare nor its aim to balance the books by the end of the parliament. The report was agreed unanimously, including by six Tory MPs.

In a rebuke to the Treasury’s priorities, the MPs warn that “the government is reaching the limits of cuts that can be made to the working-age welfare system, and particularly on those who are strivers”. At the same time, it argues “spending on pensioner benefits will continue to rise sharply and, arguably, unsustainably”.

The chancellor has already been forced by the House of Lords to agree to rethink his plans to save £4.4bn to cut tax credits and has promised that he would to revise his plans in the autumn statement due on 25 November.'


Well well, this is a turn up, I just hope that his doesn't mean that they will forgo the proposed changes to tax credits and turn the scissors towards pensioners...
I have a sickening feeling they will.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/11/fresh-blow-george-osborne-planned-tax-credit-cuts-reforms

[Kizzy]

PRIME Minister David Cameron has been accused of “high handed and arrogant” meddling after he waded into the debate over county council cuts.

He has tangled with Conservative leader of the authority Ian Hudspeth in an exchange of letters, and come under attack from Labour opposition leader Liz Brighouse, after criticising “unwelcome and counter-productive” plans to close children’s centres.

Writing to Mr Hudspeth, Witney MP Mr Cameron said he was also disappointed with other cuts proposed to elderly day centres and libraries and claimed Oxfordshire’s spending had actually increased over recent years.


Mr Hudspeth, normally considered a political ally, countered by sending a six-page response defending plans to make an extra £50m of savings and accusing Mr Cameron of “inaccurate” comments.

Read his full letter here Ian-Hudspeth-letter.pdf

Opposition leaders seized on the PM’s “staggering” letter, claiming Mr Cameron did not understand the impact of the Government’s policies “in his own backyard”.

If he is so ruthless in Oxfordshire then the rest of the country is toast...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/13948252.David_Cameron_clashes_with_council_over_c uts_to_frontline_services/

[Kizzy]

Remind me again how brilliantly we're doing....

'UK inflation as measured by the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) remained at -0.1% in October, the Office for National Statistics has said.
The news will further dampen expectations of a rise in interest rates any time soon.
The Bank of England said earlier this month that the global economy was weakening, depressing inflation risks.
Following this report, many economists forecast that rates would not rise until well into next year.
October marked the first time consumer prices have fallen on an annual basis for two months in a row. The price of clothing rose last month, but this was offset by a fall in food, alcohol and tobacco.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34841952

[Livia]

Not nearly as bleak as when the Tories took over from Labour.

[Kizzy]

Hmm cyclical argument here again, counters with worldwide recession...

[MTVN]

Remind me again how brilliantly we're doing....

'UK inflation as measured by the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) remained at -0.1% in October, the Office for National Statistics has said.
The news will further dampen expectations of a rise in interest rates any time soon.
The Bank of England said earlier this month that the global economy was weakening, depressing inflation risks.
Following this report, many economists forecast that rates would not rise until well into next year.
October marked the first time consumer prices have fallen on an annual basis for two months in a row. The price of clothing rose last month, but this was offset by a fall in food, alcohol and tobacco.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34841952

It's not particularly disastrous though is it. As the article goes on to mention, negative inflation can boost the economy so long as it does not become endemic

Economists said negative inflation would give a short-term boost to the economy.

Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said: "The benefit of ongoing low inflation is not only that interest rates will stay lower for longer but that real wage growth remains robust, which will in turn continue to boost consumer spending power and help sustain the economic upturn.

"The deflationary picture supports the Bank of England's dovish outlook, which envisages interest rates staying on hold until 2017. However, this outlook is dependent on oil prices and wage pressures remaining low, both of which remain something of an unknown."

Andrew Sentance, senior economic adviser at consultants PwC, said the latest ONS data did not point to "a more generalised deflation". As fuel price falls drop out of the annual calculation over the next few months, he expected the inflation rate to move up to "about 1% or higher".

He added: "Meanwhile, consumers continue to benefit from the combination of stronger wage increases and very slightly falling prices. The resulting increase in real wages and household disposable incomes should continue to be supportive of consumer spending and economic growth over the year ahead."

Fairly solid across the board then, as I said earlier in the thread. I notice there was no mention in this thread of the news a few days ago that the unemployment rate fell to its lowest since 2008 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34785758)

[Kazanne]

It's not particularly disastrous though is it. As the article goes on to mention, negative inflation can boost the economy so long as it does not become endemic



Fairly solid across the board then, as I said earlier in the thread. I notice there was no mention in this thread of the news a few days ago that the unemployment rate fell to its lowest since 2008 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34785758)

I agree,there's plenty of good about this government, it's not all negative.

[Livia]

..........the unemployment rate fell to its lowest since 2008

Shhhhhhhhhh...

[Kizzy]

Fairly solid across the board then, as I said earlier in the thread. I notice there was no mention in this thread of the news a few days ago that the unemployment rate fell to its lowest since 2008 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34785758)

No there wasn't... That's because there are other factors affecting the DWP unemployment rate, those on sanctions, work experience, training courses and apprenticeships, none of which mean that there are more people actually employed.
So don't break out the fanfares just yet.

[Livia]

When Labour was in power, were people on sanctions, work experience, training courses and apprenticeships taken into account? Or is it just the Tories that lump them all together?

And a word on zero hours contracts... didn't they come into being just about the time Labour came to power? and didn't they spend their whole time in office doing nothing about them? Now they're regularly cited as evil... odd.

[joeysteele]

Not nearly as bleak as when the Tories took over from Labour.

To be fair we have no idea of what it would be like had it been vice versa, all we know for sure is the financial world was in chaos in all Countries between 2008 and 2010.
Also too, the fact that the Banks were largely responsible for the crash too in 2008, labour should have done more to regulate the Banking sector no doubt, however where would we might have been had the Conservatives been in govt between 2005 and 2010 and had carried out their plans to regulate the Banks far less.
Well the mess then,could have and more likely would have, been even greater.
I am not crowing about unemployment down either, the massive rise of part time work means most people in the new jobs are not in full time regular work.
Statistics can say what any govt wants them to say.

When the jobs are secure full time ones then I will happily congratulate any govt.

[Kizzy]

Ken Loach has said there needs to be more public outrage around benefit sanctions and the reliance on food banks, with the situation much worse for working people than when he made his seminal film Cathy Come Home, in 1966.

The veteran film-maker rarely speaks while developing a project but is so deeply concerned about government policy on benefits and the sanctions regime that he gave an interview to the Guardian on the set of his latest film.

Loach, 79, is shooting what may be his last film, I, Daniel Blake, based on the writer Paul Laverty’s research of jobcentres, benefit sanctions and food banks. It tells the story of Blake, who has worked for years as a joiner but is then forced to give up work and claim benefits. “The present system is one of conscious cruelty,” Loach said. “It bears down on those least able to bear it. The bureaucratic inefficiency is vindictive and hunger is being used as a weapon. People are being forced to look for work that doesn’t exist.”

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/23/ken-loach-benefit-sanctions-jeremy-corbyn-food-banks

[BB4fan]

He's one of the worst PMs we've ever had, Let's hope he gets a vote of no confidence sooner rather than later.

What did you think of Thatcher ...???

[Z]

Not nearly as bleak as when the Tories took over from Labour.

Agreed. Anyway, we're all writing on this with internet connections, I'm not sure we're the right people to be discussing this issue.

[JoshBB]

What did you think of Thatcher ...???

Let's pls never discuss this dark time in history ever again :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Agreed. Anyway, we're all writing on this with internet connections, I'm not sure we're the right people to be discussing this issue.

Lost me here sorry...Internet connection?

[Z]

Lost me here sorry...Internet connection?

Our standard of living is among the highest in the world and, despite the inequality in this country, anyone with the privilege of being able to post on here is not in the bracket of people worst affected by whatever cuts the government have made or will make. We can discuss it, but we don't really know what it's like to be in the truly worst off sections of our society by virtue of being on this forum right now, in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

Our standard of living is among the highest in the world and, despite the inequality in this country, anyone with the privilege of being able to post on here is not in the bracket of people worst affected by whatever cuts the government have made or will make. We can discuss it, but we don't really know what it's like to be in the truly worst off sections of our society by virtue of being on this forum right now, in my opinion.

Well fair enough but what's that to do with the comparison of today and 2010?

[Z]

Well fair enough but what's that to do with the comparison of today and 2010?

What does David Cameron have to do with the actions of his predecessors and whoever comes after him? I don't believe it's possible to ever stamp out inequality because humans are inherently greedy; but as far as standards of living and human rights go, we're doing pretty well. I'm just grateful that I can share my opinions and not be persecuted. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

What does David Cameron have to do with the actions of his predecessors and whoever comes after him? I don't believe it's possible to ever stamp out inequality because humans are inherently greedy; but as far as standards of living and human rights go, we're doing pretty well. I'm just grateful that I can share my opinions and not be persecuted. :shrug:

Nothing I guess although the feeling that things are not as bad now as they were then I find hard to agree with, considering the worldwide recession and such.
You can, for now :)

[Z]

Nothing I guess although the feeling that things are not as bad now as they were then I find hard to agree with, considering the worldwide recession and such.
You can, for now :)

Recessions come and go. Things get better and worse. Governments swing from left to right. None of this is new. David Cameron will not ruin this country - he'll make bits of it better and bits of it worse and his successor will undo everything he did and nudge us in a different direction. That's life.

[Kizzy]

I still feel it's unfair to harp back to times of recession, it is important to remember that the coalition left us in much worse debt than Labour, that is not likely to improve at all regardless of any perceived successes.
Whether or not you agree that he will ruin the country depends on your perception of ruination I guess.

[smudgie]

At least he will push the button if needed.
I feel a lot safer with him at the helm.

[Kizzy]

At least he will push the button if needed.
I feel a lot safer with him at the helm.

You feel reassured that he will end the world?.... Ok.

[Z]

I still feel it's unfair to harp back to times of recession, it is important to remember that the coalition left us in much worse debt than Labour, that is not likely to improve at all regardless of any perceived successes.
Whether or not you agree that he will ruin the country depends on your perception of ruination I guess.

You literally brought up the recession in your previous post.

[smudgie]

You feel reassured that he will end the world?.... Ok.

Yep, I feel very reassured that he won't dither over pressing the button if it comes down to it, to defend Britain.
Hit the enemy before they hit us hopefully.

[Kizzy]

You literally brought up the recession in your previous post.

I used the recession as a possible reason for borrowing during the last Labour govt yes, what's the reason we are borrowing now I wonder?

[kirklancaster]

Cameron is scum, Farage was robbed

At LAST another Nigel fan. Welcome mate.

[kirklancaster]

What does David Cameron have to do with the actions of his predecessors and whoever comes after him? I don't believe it's possible to ever stamp out inequality because humans are inherently greedy; but as far as standards of living and human rights go, we're doing pretty well. I'm just grateful that I can share my opinions and not be persecuted. :shrug:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Brilliantly put.

[joeysteele]

At least he will push the button if needed.
I feel a lot safer with him at the helm.

See this worries me that one person has that sort of power, I would rather there be a nuclear committee that have to decide whether to push any button and who will weigh up the consequences of doing so from all sectors of opinion.

Personally I would not trust Cameron to tie shoelaces let alone with a decision as to pushing a nuclear button, not with his dithering and wavering procrastination over the last 5 years+.

Even worse for me on the nuclear issue is the fact that the UK even if it wanted to, cannot push the button, it first would have to get the permission of the USA to do so,which fills me with greater fear that our so called nuclear deterrent could be made to be pushed into action by the orders of the USA.

Quite frankly no one with the will to push it or not to push it, equally fails to to inspire me with any confidence in them as to the issue, I would rather have a strong check in place via a nuclear committee, made up of representation from the armed forces, representation of all other parties who have MPs in parliament ad the govt too, with the PM just one of many in attendance.
With a majority having to vote for any such action and remove from one person the sole decision as to same.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

What do you mean will he? Is he not all ready?

Bloody England voting for him

[bots]

See this worries that one person has that sort of power, I would rather there be a nuclear committee that have to decide whether to push any button and who will weigh up the consequences of doing so from all sectors of opinion.

Personally I would not trust Cameron to tie shoelaces let alone with a decision as to pushing a nuclear button, not with his dithering and wavering procrastination over the last 5 years+.

Even worse for me on the nuclear issue is tat fact that the UK even if it wanted to, cannot push the button, it first would have to get the permission of the USA to do so,which fills me with greater fear that our so called nuclear deterrent could be made to be pushed into action by the orders of the USA.

Quite frankly no one with the will to push it or not to push it, equally fails to to inspire me with any confidence in them as to the issue, I would rather have a strong check in place via a nuclear committee, made up of representation from the armed forces, representation of all other parties who have MPs in parliament ad the govt too, with the PM just one of many in attendance.
With a majority having to vote for any such action and remove from one person the sole decision as to same.

And in that scenario, they would still be discussing it in their bunker after the war had finished.

We have Cobra, a meeting of the cabinet in times of strife. That is plenty sufficient

[joeysteele]

And in that scenario, they would still be discussing it in their bunker after the war had finished.

We have Cobra, a meeting of the cabinet in times of strife. That is plenty sufficient

COBRA, 'cabinet office briefing room A' is most of the time just another talking shop really, something that appears to be appearing to be doing something.

I,just my opinion that I am entitled to and it doesn't surprise me in the slightest you disagree anyway but then I am not the best person to give an opinion on David Cameron really as I am heavily biased against him..
I feel any brake on a decision as to pushing the button,to be more beneficial. Also anything that may stop a trigger happy PM or a PM who was against it to be brought into consultation on it and then having to abide by the overall decision to be far better and reasoned way forward.
I would feel safer with that in place anyway.

[Kizzy]

George Osborne will announce big cuts in spending for the police, social care, local government, further education, renewable energy and welfare as he is forced to finally spell out how he plans to have reduced spending in key government departments cumulatively by nearly 50% since the Conservatives came to power in 2010.

After weeks of media focus on protected Whitehall departments, the chancellor will detail how the cuts will fall across the rest of government departments.

The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, said Osborne had no more excuses left after five years. Stealing Osborne’s security theme, he added: “The cuts are putting people’s livelihoods at risk.”

Leeds city council were due to roll out solar panels for all eligible properties, now the feed in tariff is slashed that's scrapped... Thanks Dave, keeping the poor slaves to the big 6 :thumbs:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/25/chancellor-george-osborne-spending-review-2015-autumn-statement?INTCMP=the-essential-read-automated

[arista]

You feel reassured that he will end the world?.... Ok.

But Trident is not the
End of the World.

Its us Fighting Back

Labour MP's want it as well.


Many will be in Bunkers