Bloody Sunday arrest

[Kizzy]

'Detectives in Northern Ireland investigating the Bloody Sunday shootings in 1972 have arrested a former British soldier in County Antrim.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland’s legacy investigation branch said he is 66 years old. He would have been 23 at the time of the shootings.


The officer leading the investigation, DCI Ian Harrison, said the arrest marked a new phase in the overall inquiry that would continue for some time.

Thirteen civil rights demonstrators were killed by members of the Parachute Regiment on the streets of Derry in January 1972. Another victim of the shootings died months later.'

Be careful what you do 'for your country'...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/10/bloody-sunday-investigators-arrest-former-soldier

[Niamh.]

"Be careful what you do 'for your country'..."

That was a massacre

[Kizzy]

"Be careful what you do 'for your country'..."

That was a massacre

It was, a state sponsored massacre.

[Crimson Dynamo]

have they not got better things to do ffs

[Niamh.]

have they not got better things to do ffs

oh yeah it's only Irish people they killed eh? Surely there's better things to deal with. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if it were members of the IRA being tried for a massacre against British people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh yeah it's only Irish people they killed eh? Surely there's better things to deal with. I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if it were members of the IRA being tried for a massacre against British people.

It was 1972

[Niamh.]

It was 1972

and?

[Crimson Dynamo]

and?

and we already have had an amnesty for all the IRA murderers?

We have thier bosses as politicians now

[smudgie]

Murder is murder, hiding behind a uniform doesn't make it right.
One of the most shameful atrocities I can remember when I was growing up.

[Niamh.]

and we already have had an amnesty for all the IRA murderers?

We have there bosses as politicians now

So the army shouldn't be held accountable for attacking innocent civilians?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So the army shouldn't be held accountable for attacking innocent civilians?

Well as long as they are looking to hold to account the 1696 people murdered by the IRA..

[Niamh.]

Well as long as they are looking to hold to account the 1696 people murdered by the IRA..

So therefore you're holding the IRA in the same regard as the British Army then? :think:

[Niamh.]

Surely that comparison can only be made between the IRA and groups like the UDA etc not the official British Army

[Crimson Dynamo]

So therefore you're holding the IRA in the same regard as the British Army then? :think:


I just think that as we have forgiven all the IRA murderers it seems, raking up Bloody Sunday again is a trifle rich

[Niamh.]

I just think that as we have forgiven all the IRA murderers it seems, raking up Bloody Sunday again is a trifle rich

Why? The IRA are/were a Terrorist group, if you want to compare like for like then that works with Loyalist Terrorist groups not the British Army, who (at that point in Irish History anyway) should have been protecting people in Northern Ireland not mowing them down

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why? The IRA are/were a Terrorist group, if you want to compare like for like then that works with Loyalist Terrorist groups not the British Army, who (at the point in Irish History anyway) should have been protecting people in Northern Ireland not mowing them down

It was one incident and they protected many NI civilians before and after that event. They did a very good and difficult job against a cowardly sneaky criminal enemy

[Niamh.]

It was one incident and they protected many NI civilians before and after that event. They did a very good and difficult job against a cowardly sneaky criminal enemy

I actually don't even know how to reply to that. Truly disgusting to refer to Bloody Sunday for a start as just "one incident" and surely the British Army had more than one sneaky enemy or were the Loyalist Terrorist groups their allies?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I actually don't even know how to reply to that. Truly disgusting to refer to Bloody Sunday for a start as just "one incident" and surely the British Army had more than one sneaky enemy or were the Loyalist Terrorist groups their allies?

It is an incident in isolation, that does not decry it but it does place it in context.


Both terrorist groups were just that, men using political ideals to mask lawlessness, bullying, organised crime and powerbroking

[Niamh.]

It is an incident in isolation, that does not decry it but it does place it in context.


Both terrorist groups were just that, men using political ideals to mask lawlessness, bullying, organised crime and powerbroking

How does anything ever place such an attack on unarmed civilians "in context"? Ugh, you know what nevermind I don't even want to know, this whole conversation is just making me angry

[Cherie]

"Be careful what you do 'for your country'..."

That was a massacre

:clap1: a massacre of innocents at that, but hey they might have turned into IRA members so it's justified

[Crimson Dynamo]

:clap1: a massacre of innocents at that, but hey they might have turned into IRA members so it's justified

Do you think that the soldiers were told to shoot civilians ?

if so by whom?

[Cherie]

I just think that as we have forgiven all the IRA murderers it seems, raking up Bloody Sunday again is a trifle rich

Not really as the British Army were there to enforce peace not gun down innocents, the way you describe them they are no better than terrorists

[Kazanne]

It's weird this should come up,I have just been reading about two British soldiers that were dragged from their car and murdered,it was years ago now but what was that all about?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's weird this should come up,I have just been reading about two British soldiers that were dragged from their car and murdered,it was years ago now but what was that all about?

yes that was live on TV

The corporals killings.

It was alleged the mob thought they were loyalists (the Michael Stone incident was just before) and dragged them from the car and killed them


That said the British Army said they were told to stay away from IRA funerals and they did not..

[Livia]

I remember a thread not too long ago about a Polish man who was jailed for his work in Auschwitz. A lot of opinion thought he should be allowed to live out his life regardless of the awful things in which he collaborated. When does that abdication of responsibility come in, exactly? How much time has to pass before something ceases to get headlines?

[Livia]

yes that was live on TV

The corporals killings.

It was alleged the mob thought they were loyalists (the Michael Stone incident was just before) and dragged them from the car and killed them


That said the British Army said they were told to stay away from IRA funerals and they did not..

Oh well, they deserved to die then, right?

How about Warren Point? What was the justification for that?

Bloody Sunday was a despicable thing to have happened. But there were too many of victims of the Troubles, lots of innocent people died.

[Kizzy]

I remember a thread not too long ago about a Polish man who was jailed for his work in Auschwitz. A lot of opinion thought he should be allowed to live out his life regardless of the awful things in which he collaborated. When does that abdication of responsibility come in, exactly? How much time has to pass before something ceases to get headlines?

That would be me, I don't hold anyone accountable who follows the orders as given by a fascist regime.... and the same goes for what happened in Auschwitz.

[Niamh.]

I remember a thread not too long ago about a Polish man who was jailed for his work in Auschwitz. A lot of opinion thought he should be allowed to live out his life regardless of the awful things in which he collaborated. When does that abdication of responsibility come in, exactly? How much time has to pass before something ceases to get headlines?

The difference there is most people atleast had sympathy with the victims in that case, what I seem to be reading here is alot of excuses as to why it was OK for the British Army to kill Irish people because the IRA existed

[Livia]

The difference there is most people atleast had sympathy with the victims in that case, what I seem to be reading here is alot of excuses as to why it was OK for the British Army to kill Irish people because the IRA existed

I don't think anyone's said it was okay for the British Army to kill Irish people. It was a terrible **** up and I have nothing but sympathy with the families who lost loved ones. There is no way of excusing what happened.

[Livia]

That would be me, I don't hold anyone accountable who follows the orders as given by a fascist regime.... and the same goes for what happened in Auschwitz.

As usual Kizzy, you overestimate your impact.

[Niamh.]

I don't think anyone's said it was okay for the British Army to kill Irish people. It was a terrible **** up and I have nothing but sympathy with the families who lost loved ones. There is no way of excusing what happened.

I wasn't talking about you but certainly LT and kazanne both did that

[Kazanne]

I wasn't talking about you but certainly LT and kazanne both did that

I didn't say that Naimh,I said I had just been reading about it and asked what that was all about:conf: I was asking the question as I am not well read on the troubles:shrug:

[Niamh.]

I didn't say that Naimh,I said I had just been reading about it and asked what that was all about:conf: I was asking the question as I am not well read on the troubles:shrug:

Your one and only post in the thread was to bring up killings of British soldiers by the IRA, not a single comment about the actual subject of the thread just a post on the side of the British Army....... mmhhmm

[Kizzy]

As usual Kizzy, you overestimate your impact.

No I remember the thread, and I was one of those who suggested he shouldn't be charged.
I wasn't suggesting for a second you were referring specifically to me.

[Kazanne]

Your one and only post in the thread was to bring up killings of British soldiers by the IRA, not a single comment about the actual subject of the thread just a post on the side of the British Army....... mmhhmm

I explained that it was weird this thread was here as I was just this afternoon reading about those two soldiers,I simply asked a question on what it was about as most of you seem to know about the troubles in NI,I don't:shrug:

[Niamh.]

I explained that it was weird this thread was here as I was just this afternoon reading about those two soldiers,I simply asked a question on what it was about as most of you seem to know about the troubles in NI,I don't:shrug:

What Bloody Sunday was about? You never heard of it? U2 even wrote a song about it lol

[Kizzy]

You know, that's why google is your friend :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

"But Col Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan who served 8 tours in Northern Ireland in the 1980s and 1990s, said the arrest was “yet another example of this Government allowing British soldiers to be hounded through the courts”.

He said there had been “some very serious wrong doing on behalf of the British Army on Bloody Sunday, but also there was some pretty significant mitigation from the circumstances that they were operating under and direct provocation.”

He said blame should not only be directed at soldiers.

He said: “The spotlight, if anywhere, should fall upon the commanders, not just soldiers, and that includes some very, very senior officers.”
If the Government had released terrorists under the Good Friday peace agreement, then soldiers should not be prosecuted.

He said: “The Government has turned a blind eye to crimes that have been committed and allowed people who have been terrorist commanders to bet into positions of political power.

“If that has been right for the peace process, then it's not right in my view that soldiers should be hounded this way.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11985886/Bloody-Sunday-British-soldier-arrested-by-detectives-investigating-shootings.html

[Niamh.]

:shrug:

[Niamh.]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1110/740830-bloody-sunday-investigation/

It is believed the former soldier is also being questioned about the attempted murder of Mr Nash's father Alexander.

He came to the barrier to save his son but was shot in the arm and body.

It is understood the soldier gave evidence to the British government-commissioned inquiry into Bloody Sunday, undertaken by Lord Saville, under the cipher Lance Corporal J.

Kate Nash, William's sister, welcomed the development.

"We have always fought very hard to be treated equally within the justice system," she said.

"I see this as a positive step."

Thirteen people were killed by members of the Parachute Regiment on the day of the incident. Another victim of the shootings died in hospital four months later.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland's murder investigation into the events of Bloody Sunday was launched in 2012.

The probe was initiated after the Saville Inquiry found that none of victims was posing a threat to soldiers when they were shot.

Following the publication of the Saville report in 2010, British Prime Minister David Cameron apologised for the Army's actions, branding them "unjustified and unjustifiable".

In September, the PSNI announced its intention to interview seven former soldiers about their involvement on the day.

[Kizzy]

My feelings exactly, as in the case of the workers at Auschwitz those who give the orders are the guilty party.
It's not a case of murderers hiding behind uniforms, it's people being used as scapegoats and political pawns.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1110/740830-bloody-sunday-investigation/

It is believed the former soldier is also being questioned about the attempted murder of Mr Nash's father Alexander.

He came to the barrier to save his son but was shot in the arm and body.

It is understood the soldier gave evidence to the British government-commissioned inquiry into Bloody Sunday, undertaken by Lord Saville, under the cipher Lance Corporal J.

Kate Nash, William's sister, welcomed the development.

"We have always fought very hard to be treated equally within the justice system," she said.

"I see this as a positive step."

Thirteen people were killed by members of the Parachute Regiment on the day of the incident. Another victim of the shootings died in hospital four months later.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland's murder investigation into the events of Bloody Sunday was launched in 2012.

The probe was initiated after the Saville Inquiry found that none of victims was posing a threat to soldiers when they were shot.

Following the publication of the Saville report in 2010, British Prime Minister David Cameron apologised for the Army's actions, branding them "unjustified and unjustifiable".

In September, the PSNI announced its intention to interview seven former soldiers about their involvement on the day.

Yes neem the enquiry stated that a few years ago, noone is disputing what happened just as noone is disputing that the so called IRA or common murdering criminals killed lots of innocent people because they wanted people to think how they thought and if you didnt then they would murder you

[Cherie]

lthough Ford decided that 1 Para should be deployed as an arrest force on 30 January 1972 in the event of rioting, Saville concluded "he neither knew nor had reason to know at any stage that his decision would or was likely to result in soldiers firing unjustifiably on that day".

• Evidence from soldiers to the inquiry that they had fired after coming under attack was rejected. "We have concluded that none of them fired in response to attacks or threatened attacks by nail or petrol bombers. No one threw or threatened to throw a nail or petrol bomb at the soldiers on Bloody Sunday."

• The credibility of the accounts given by the soldiers was "materially undermined" because all soldiers bar one who were responsible for the casualties "insisted that they had shot at gunmen or bombers, which they had not". Saville said: "Many of these soldiers have knowingly put forward false accounts in order to seek to justify their firing".


http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/15/bloody-sunday-inquiry-key-findings

[Cherie]

My feelings exactly, as in the case of the workers at Auschwitz those who give the orders are the guilty party.
It's not a case of murderers hiding behind uniforms, it's people being used as scapegoats and political pawns.


The soldiers has no orders to fire, yet they did, as well as on people running away they also fired on people tending to the dying.

[Kazanne]

What Bloody Sunday was about? You never heard of it? U2 even wrote a song about it lol

Well of course I have HEARD of it,but never really studied it,and what it was all about.:shrug: Love me love me ,I'm thick!!!!

[Livia]

"But Col Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan who served 8 tours in Northern Ireland in the 1980s and 1990s, said the arrest was “yet another example of this Government allowing British soldiers to be hounded through the courts”.

He said there had been “some very serious wrong doing on behalf of the British Army on Bloody Sunday, but also there was some pretty significant mitigation from the circumstances that they were operating under and direct provocation.”

He said blame should not only be directed at soldiers.

He said: “The spotlight, if anywhere, should fall upon the commanders, not just soldiers, and that includes some very, very senior officers.”
If the Government had released terrorists under the Good Friday peace agreement, then soldiers should not be prosecuted.

He said: “The Government has turned a blind eye to crimes that have been committed and allowed people who have been terrorist commanders to bet into positions of political power.

“If that has been right for the peace process, then it's not right in my view that soldiers should be hounded this way.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11985886/Bloody-Sunday-British-soldier-arrested-by-detectives-investigating-shootings.html

With justifying anything that happened on Bloody Sunday, I agree with this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

All this does is drag this back into the limelight. As with all situations like this the only solution is to forgive and forget

and move on

[Kizzy]

The soldiers has no orders to fire, yet they did, as well as on people running away they also fired on people tending to the dying.

16 the Anti-Tank Platoon while they were still at the

17 Kells Walk wall, rests primarily on the testimony and

18 recollection of Soldier 027. Although the detail of his

19 account has changed from hearing a shout in 1972 to

20 receiving a radioed order from Major Loden in 1975, the

21 fact that an order was given and then repeated,

22 according to him, is one of the few common elements

23 running through the evidence that he has given.

24 With the possible exception of INQ635, no other

25 member of the Anti-Tank Platoon has given evidence of


1






1 hearing or being made aware of a ceasefire order while

2 they were at that wall

http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/trans.html