The Budget 25/11/15 : Osborne Scraps tax credit cuts

[arista]

Osborne SCRAPS £4.4billion tax credit cuts after Tory revolt as he boasts Britain's finances are in better shape

Chancellor stuns Parliament as he bows to pressure to help working poor
Autumn Statement reveals progress on balancing the books by 2019-20
Spending Review sets out £20billion in cuts and £12billion from welfare
Warnings against cutting police in the wake of the Paris terror attacks
NHS, defence, foreign aid and spies are the big winners with more cash
But justice, transport, culture and local government bear the brunt of cuts


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333159/George-Osborne-sets-Autumn-Statement-Spending-Review-20billion-cuts.html#ixzz3sVdWtizc

http://news.sky.com/story/1594153/osborne-in-u-turn-over-cuts-to-tax-credits

[Kazanne]

At least he listened to people and acted upon it ,and he is giving pensioners more,,this is the good that being harsh does for a while,people just need to give them chance and muck in.

[arista]

No Cuts in the Police Budget another big U Turn

[Kazanne]

No Cuts in the Police Budget another big U Turn

More good news eh arista?

[smudgie]

Sounded pretty sound to me.
When the Shadow Chancillor can only come back with the fact that we are behind with the defect balance then you now if was a successful review.
Hopefully the deficit will be sorted by the end of this parliament.

[arista]

A Solid Budget with 2 Important U Turns

[Kizzy]

Osborne SCRAPS £4.4billion tax credit cuts after Tory revolt as he boasts Britain's finances are in better shape

Chancellor stuns Parliament as he bows to pressure to help working poor
Autumn Statement reveals progress on balancing the books by 2019-20
Spending Review sets out £20billion in cuts and £12billion from welfare
Warnings against cutting police in the wake of the Paris terror attacks
NHS, defence, foreign aid and spies are the big winners with more cash
But justice, transport, culture and local government bear the brunt of cuts


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333159/George-Osborne-sets-Autumn-Statement-Spending-Review-20billion-cuts.html#ixzz3sVdWtizc

http://news.sky.com/story/1594153/osborne-in-u-turn-over-cuts-to-tax-credits

12 billion was the original figure touted, if it's not tax credits being cut what is it?

[joeysteele]

There should never have been any threat to the Police in the first place and his u turn on tax credit cuts is only because the Lords threw them back at him and Conservative MPs were moving to possibly rebel if he stuck with them.
He hasn't listened to anyone at all,all that has happened is his hand has been forced.

Democracy and common sense has won today on this, not him.had there been no hint of antagonism towards his plans he would have implemented them fully and rigidly as they were originally set.
Again I say on the tax credit issue, really well done to the House of Lords,on not only being able to further expose the wrongs of the policy but to use their power, such as it was, to get rid of the rotten policy near altogether..

[Kizzy]

The cuts to the police would have gone ahead had it not been for the Paris attacks, people were quite rightly asking in the face of such a threat why are the police and first responders being cut.
Tax credits were facing a 4 billion chop where will the axe fall now?

[Cherie]

It seems that people moving onto Universal Credit will lose their tax credits :shrug: I guess that is child tax credit though not sure how it all works

[smudgie]

It seems that people moving onto Universal Credit will lose their tax credits :shrug: I guess that is child tax credit though not sure how it all works

I think that was already on the cards, and all passed ready to be implemented at the time it is due.
So in reality he still gets his tax credit cuts in the long run:shrug:

[Cherie]

I think that was already on the cards, and all passed ready to be implemented at the time it is due.
So in reality he still gets his tax credit cuts in the long run:shrug:

Yes Smudgie it means really he hasn't done a full U turn in tax credits at all, just a partial one so smoke and mirrors come to mind

[arista]

It seems that people moving onto Universal Credit will lose their tax credits :shrug: I guess that is child tax credit though not sure how it all works


2017
but many will be protected

[arista]

John McDonnell Threw Dictator Chairman Mao's Little Red Book at the Tories

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333601/Incredible-moment-John-McDonnell-Chairman-Mao-s-Little-Red-Book-pocket-quoted-dictator-starved-millions-death-economic-theory.html#ixzz3sWU6axVX




Chairman Mao Murdered so many

Not Funny at all

[Kizzy]

John McDonnell Threw Dictator Chairman Mao's Little Red Book at the Tories

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333601/Incredible-moment-John-McDonnell-Chairman-Mao-s-Little-Red-Book-pocket-quoted-dictator-starved-millions-death-economic-theory.html#ixzz3sWU6axVX




Chairman Mao Murdered so many

Not Funny at all

I thought it was funny... And nobody was surprised.

I like answering my own posts :)

[joeysteele]

Yes Smudgie it means really he hasn't done a full U turn in tax credits at all, just a partial one so smoke and mirrors come to mind

He has become the master of conning people in my view, possibly the only thing he has excelled on in his time as Chancellor.
He is also thinking about his own leadership bid when the ditherer Cameron goes before 2020.

[bots]

He has become the master of conning people in my view, possibly the only thing he has excelled on in his time as Chancellor.
He is also thinking about his own leadership bid when the ditherer Cameron goes before 2020.

I know we see things differently regularly, but I agree, they are just rebadging things. Its not a new tactic though, remember all the times Blair and Brown did similar. Announcing new spending for blah, when it was spending that had already been announced under another banner. I'm not saying this justifies it, just that all governments are guilty of it.

[joeysteele]

I know we see things differently regularly, but I agree, they are just rebadging things. Its not a new tactic though, remember all the times Blair and Brown did similar. Announcing new spending for blah, when it was spending that had already been announced under another banner. I'm not saying this justifies it, just that all governments are guilty of it.

I was never a fan of Blair and Brown either,sometimes we don't see things that differently really.
few in my family discuss Cameron with me however and I feel much about Osborne and in fact Theresa May as I do about Cameron.

I agree with all you say above.

[user104658]

It seems that people moving onto Universal Credit will lose their tax credits :shrug: I guess that is child tax credit though not sure how it all works
Well, universal credit is both sets of tax credits (working and child) plus housing benefit, Jobseekers, and a few other things (I think pretty much all benefits other than those related to disability) rolled into one payment.

The tax credits issue was that they were lowering the amount earned at which tax credits started to be scaled back (almost halving it) and also increasing the reduction in benefits per £1 earned. They have now scrapped that, but yes, my first thought was: if they haven't done the same with Universal Credit - if the lowered threshold and increased taper rate still applies to Universal Credit - then this "U turn" is temporary and ultimately meaningless.

[Kizzy]

Basically they've just bought themselves time to figure out a way to do it without the pesky lords meddling?

[MTVN]

He is able to scrap the tax credit cuts because borrowing over the next few years is now forecast to be a lot less than previously thought. Those forecasts will probably be wrong of course but there we are. It was a good review for Osborne and he's managed to avert a few big pitfalls.

Mind you, when your opposite number responds by reading Mao's Little Red Book then you're never going to look like the biggest fool of the day

[Kizzy]

Pfft... He has money atm because he is Jinpings fallout boy, what the shadow chancellor said was apt.
Will it help the deficit? I doubt it.

[bots]

Pfft... He has money atm because he is Jinpings fallout boy, what the shadow chancellor said was apt.
Will it help the deficit? I doubt it.

There is nothing wrong with inclusive cooperation though, Through cooperation, we understand each other better and have better opportunity to influence

The shadow chancellor was being a dick. If that's how he behaves when he basically gets the results he wants, how the hell is he going to behave when things are tough.

China is a valued economic partner, huge progress has been achieved with them over the last few decades. Of course its anything but ideal, but its much much better than it was.

[Kizzy]

Economic partner my arse... They paid us to house a nuclear reactor.
That was the message behind the passage read out today, and he's spot on.

[Kizzy]

'Town halls are facing a £4.1bn a year black hole in their budgets that not even the closure of every children’s centre, library, museum and park could fill, council leaders have warned.

George Osborne’s decision to axe the central government grant to councils over the next four years came in a comprehensive spending review that the Local Government Association (LGA) chairman, Gary Porter, a Conservative peer, described as a tragic missed opportunity to protect the services “that bind communities together, improve people’s quality of life and protect the most vulnerable”.

The chancellor had announced “a revolution in the way we govern this country” by giving town halls far greater fundraising powers, allowing them to keep 100% of business rates, rather than the current 50%, and increase council tax bills by 2% to pay for rising social care bills. But they will lose the grant worth £18bn across councils in England, according to the LGA.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/25/local-government-councils-funding-gap-critical-budget-cuts-social-care-spending-review

[Livia]

He is able to scrap the tax credit cuts because borrowing over the next few years is now forecast to be a lot less than previously thought. Those forecasts will probably be wrong of course but there we are. It was a good review for Osborne and he's managed to avert a few big pitfalls.

Mind you, when your opposite number responds by reading Mao's Little Red Book then you're never going to look like the biggest fool of the day

Excellent post as ever, MTVN.

[Vicky.]

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on ;) Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

[Livia]

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on ;) Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

I believe they did listen and act accordingly. But I strongly agree with your point that George Osborne has no soul. That's very easy to accept.

Nice to see you Vicky!

[Vicky.]

I believe they did listen and act accordingly. But I strongly agree with your point that George Osborne has no soul. That's very easy to accept.

Nice to see you Vicky!

They, I imagine would be Cameron. For all his faults, he does seem to have some compassion at times. Also hes not stupid, this would have been an absolute vote killer for them, even if they do mainly rely on the grey vote. I can just imagine the tantrums Osbourne would have had over all of this..

I am really warming to Cameron recently strangely enough. I was thinking the other day, if you take out what seems like contempt for the lower paid among us..he is exactly the right person to be in charge right now. I voted Labour (though was never Millibands greatest fan) and honestly, I feel MUCH safer right now than I can imagine feeling if this mess was down to Ed to sort out. I agree with Corbyn on a lot of things, but I would never vpte for him with the worold how it is right now. His world peace vision is nice and all, but not whats needed when we are..at war.

Went off on one a bit there, but not deleting :laugh:

Thanks, nice to be back

[arista]

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on ;) Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.


But he needs one,
to be PM in 2020

[Vicky.]

But he needs one,
to be PM in 2020

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne :laugh:

[arista]

Students who took out a loan
in 2012 and who at a level of paying back £100 a year
Now will have to pay back £300.

He has changed the Contract.

[Livia]

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne :laugh:

Noooo... that'd be as bad as Labour electing Corbyn as their leader. Well, almost as bad.

[kirklancaster]

Osbourne for PM? No ****ing chance. Even the Tory voters I know (few and far between up north though) cannot stand Osbourne :laugh:

:laugh: Vicky with the strong language. :laugh::laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Noooo... that'd be as bad as Labour electing Corbyn as their leader. Well, almost as bad.

:nono: Nowhere NEAR as bad - despite Osborne being a knob.

[joeysteele]

Whatever the reasons for doing it, I'm happy. It was going to hit too many people too fast. Now if its all still going to happen just over a longer time, surely this is better than what was originally planned?

I don't believe he 'listened to the people' or anything though, there has been something else going on ;) Maybe Dave told him off or something. Honestly, Osbourne has no soul.

He most certainly didn't listen Vicky you are spot on.
He had a rebuff from the Lords and he was also likely told some of his own MPs after they had been bombarded by their constituents against the tax credit cuts, that they now could not support the cuts.
Some of the more decent Conservative MPs listened but not Osborne himself.

With even with his magically found 27 billion, and things supposedly looking better,(which in reality it is not),had this bill sailed through the House of Lords, he would be on the way to implementing it in full, never even slightly considering looking at it again.
The man is rotten through and through and not to be believed or trusted at all,in my view.

[DemolitionRed]

I thought McDonnell's Mao quote was genius!

[MTVN]

IMO it was public opinion in general which forced the u-turn. Don't think the Lords can be given full credit because he responded to the Lords vote furiously going on about how they had no right to overrule a democratic chamber's decision and saying he was going to press on anyway. Amongst the press I think the Sun had the biggest influence: when they are condemning a Tory government then you know its serious. There was a lot of dissent amongst his own party as well which helped.

[JoshBB]

As conservative budgets in the last 5 years have gone, this one does not strike me as bad as the others. I'm glad that they are funding areas that need it (mental health & houses, even if they still need more it's a start). It's just the £12bn welfare cuts I really don't like.

[joeysteele]

As conservative budgets in the last 5 years have gone, this one does not strike me as bad as the others. I'm glad that they are funding areas that need it (mental health & houses, even if they still need more it's a start). It's just the £12bn welfare cuts I really don't like.

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

[Vicky.]

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

[joeysteele]

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

My point exactly Vicky, thank you.

[Kizzy]

I thought McDonnell's Mao quote was genius!

Me too! Some people just have no concept of satire :laugh:

[MTVN]

Don't worry Mr McDonnell, you will always have Diane behind you

uB4o5n2EGyA

[kirklancaster]

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

What an excellent point Joey. I'm embarrassed to think that I just did not ever stop and think and realise this. You are correct - No Way should State Pensions be 'lumped in' to these figures as a devious 'bolster'.

I guess all Governments have deceitfully used this practice, but it does not make it right.

[kirklancaster]

Me too! Some people just have no concept of satire :laugh:

Rubbish! Everyone knows that those in the bigger chairs are sat higher. :hehe:

[DemolitionRed]

Very annoying. Especially when the pension is rising and everything else is being cut xD Its just misleading to lump them together as welfare

Every working person in this country is about to be sent a run down of where our tax goes. In this document, state pension doesn't show up under welfare but is listed separately.

A taxable wage will pay 23% towards welfare and a further 15% into the state pension pot Vicky and that isn't 15% of the 23%.

[user104658]

Do you know what annoys me as to the welfare debate, the fact that the State Pension is included as social security welfare spending.

It takes up more than half of the welfare figure yet it is not a benefit really, it is a right,vastly rich people get it too as a right.
It is shocking to use the State Pension in statistics to mislead as to the 'real' welfare spending figure.

People paid into the tax/N.I. pot for that State pension, it is time it was separated from the welfare figures.
It really makes me angry that no govt of any party has done so either.

Just before the next GE, they'll split them into two categories and then make a graph of benefits payments and say "look!! Look everyone! We halved the benefits bill! Vote for us!"

[Kizzy]

Just before the next GE, they'll split them into two categories and then make a graph of benefits payments and say "look!! Look everyone! We halved the benefits bill! Vote for us!"

And some will fall for it....again.

[joeysteele]

And some will fall for it....again.

I agree they will, some who believe all the obnoxious tripe this govt says will be hailing it as a brilliant outcome too.

Brilliant deduction again Toy Soldier too from you.

Thanks to Kirk too for his response, this has irritated me for ages now because with the State pension figures removed there would be a vastly reduced level of real social security welfare spending costs to present.

[smudgie]

Until the day They stop paying pensioners who haven't put anything into the pot a state pension then it is fair enough to call it a benefit.:shrug:

[Kizzy]

If you did take the entire welfare budget, remove the state pension portion and the 12 billion in cuts what would you be left with for 2015/16 I wonder?

[joeysteele]

Until the day They stop paying pensioners who haven't put anything into the pot a state pension then it is fair enough to call it a benefit.:shrug:

I don't agree and I think you may be very surprised how small an effect that would have with respect anyway.
Multi millionaires get the State pension and rightly, welfare spending costs should only be for in the main the means tested benefit system, not the automatic rights for all.

You actually think it is right that someone who is a millionaire and gets the State pension should be included in social security spending welfare statistics.
I certainly don't,never ever,under any govt.

Also as Vicky says the State pension is rising whereas all other benefits are near frozen or even being cut,that means in effect because the State pension is included in social security welfare figures, the cost appear to rise but not because of the other benefits being paid, only from the State pension rises in the greater part.

[joeysteele]

If you did take the entire welfare budget, remove the state pension portion and the 12 billion in cuts what would you be left with for 2015/16 I wonder?

Probably around 40% of the current statistic Kizzy.The last programme on this said 57% of welfare spending was mainly on pensions.

[DemolitionRed]

This shows where our contributions go http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596059/Where-taxes-REALLY-spent-24million-workers-sent-statements-showing-22-goes-benefits.html

[smudgie]

I don't agree and I think you may be very surprised how small an effect that would have with respect anyway.
Multi millionaires get the State pension and rightly, welfare spending costs should only be for in the main the means tested benefit system, not the automatic rights for all.

You actually think it is right that someone who is a millionaire and gets the State pension should be included in social security spending welfare statistics.
I certainly don't,never ever,under any govt.

Also as Vicky says the State pension is rising whereas all other benefits are near frozen or even being cut,that means in effect because the State pension is included in social security welfare figures, the cost appear to rise but not because of the other benefits being paid, only from the State pension rises in the greater part.


I don't doubt that sometime in the future all State pensions will be means tested. Then the fun and games will really start.
Until then, and until only them that contribute are allowed to claim it I just can't see any change in it being called a benefit.
Just waiting to see who dares do it.

[joeysteele]

I don't doubt that sometime in the future all State pensions will be means tested. Then the fun and games will really start.
Until then, and until only them that contribute are allowed to claim it I just can't see any change in it being called a benefit.
Just waiting to see who dares do it.

How many get the State pension who have never worked and never paid into the system at all.
Do you know because with respect I certainly don't but in relation to the numbers and costs,I would dare bet it is a small number.

If you could say half of those getting State pension were people who never paid into it, (and if they didn't then they get a smaller pension anyway due to less contributions).
Then perhaps I could be persuaded.
I have no figures so if you have any,I would love to see them as to 'only' those getting State pension who have never worked or paid into the system at all.

[Kizzy]

I don't doubt that sometime in the future all State pensions will be means tested. Then the fun and games will really start.
Until then, and until only them that contribute are allowed to claim it I just can't see any change in it being called a benefit.
Just waiting to see who dares do it.

I think that is happening right now, the 'when you pay in your boss pays in' I feel is a way to gauge who, what, where and when you contribute.