Donald Trump Says Muslims Should Be Forced To Wear ID Badges

[DemolitionRed]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/11/donald-trump-says-muslims-should-be-forced-to-wear-special-id-badges/#

This is one scary guy

[Niamh.]

Oh Dear, that sounds scarily familiar :umm2:

[Cherie]

:bored: how would that help? What a tosser

[Ninastar]

What would that even do?

-security look at name tag-

'Ah yes, Mr.Mohammed, member of ISIS. Afraid I can't let you into this building because of that. Good day.'

[Tom4784]

I hope stories like this keep coming. Every one of them is another nail in his campaign.

[arista]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/11/donald-trump-says-muslims-should-be-forced-to-wear-special-id-badges/#

This is one scary guy


Thats not him saying that

Get a proper Link please


I watched Live on FoxNewsHD


This is FAKE

[bots]

it's not that long ago that a certain government wanted everyone here to have ID cards ... :pipe:

ID cards for a particular group is a bit dodgy to say the least, but so is any form of profiling based on ethnicity, but it still happens albeit behind closed doors

[arista]

I hope stories like this keep coming. Every one of them is another nail in his campaign.


Dezzy it is Fake

[Headie]

Smh can't believe I used to like this guy when he did The Apprentice USA. He's like a completely different person from the show.

[Kizzy]

it's not that long ago that a certain government wanted everyone here to have ID cards ... :pipe:

ID cards for a particular group is a bit dodgy to say the least, but so is any form of profiling based on ethnicity, but it still happens albeit behind closed doors

Yes EVERYONE... Either we're all special, or nobody is.



( Yes, I did steal that line from the Incredibles)

[bots]

Dezzy it is Fake

Here is a link on BBC ... it spells out Mr. Trumps agenda nice and clearly, no fake

2. There should be surveillance on US mosques. Trump believes Muslims should be tracked by law enforcement as a counterterrorism initiative. He has walked back some comments about keeping a database on all American Muslims, but says he doesn't care if watching mosques is seen as "politically incorrect"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34903577

[Crimson Dynamo]

that is terrible reporting in that link


by its logic staff at B&Q with their identity badges directly parallel what the Nazi Third Reich

:rolleyes:

what he said (as an idea) was He suggested registering all Muslims onto a separate database, forcing them to carry special ID cards, and carrying out extra surveillance on mosques.

[arista]

Here is a link on BBC ... it spells out Mr. Trumps agenda nice and clearly, no fake

2. There should be surveillance on US mosques. Trump believes Muslims should be tracked by law enforcement as a counterterrorism initiative. He has walked back some comments about keeping a database on all American Muslims, but says he doesn't care if watching mosques is seen as "politically incorrect"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34903577

Yes so what
thats not a Badge

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUcyxBMWoAE7YtA.jpg

[Kizzy]

Did the sun ask every British Muslim if they had sympathy for jihadists?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Did the sun ask every British Muslim if they had sympathy for jihadists?

yes, that is how polls work...

[arista]

Oh Dear, that sounds scarily familiar :umm2:



Could please remove "ID badge" from the Fake Heading

[Denver]

What a utter knob

[bots]

Yes so what
thats not a Badge

i pointed out what actually was stated from a verifiable source .... that's what

[Kizzy]

yes, that is how polls work...

I'm surprised that they were all so honest in their responses... that at least is commendable.

[arista]

i pointed out what actually was stated from a verifiable source .... that's what



Yes

But what about the Title of this thread

"To Wear ID Badges"

[GiRTh]

YsieTbCeBhs

[GiRTh]

YJFEBthh21c

It looks like if he gets in power he's gonna do it. This seems to be what he is saying.

[Tom4784]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUcyxBMWoAE7YtA.jpg

I read an article about this, apparently the poll asked something completely different to what the headline stated. Just another misleading Sun headline.

[Northern Monkey]

Any terrorists would either carry a fake one or just not carry one at all.It would'nt work.

[Crimson Dynamo]

At lest he is trying to address a massive problem.

Look at France and Belgium at the moment....



now there is a success story

:umm2:

[Jamie89]

I read an article about this, apparently the poll asked something completely different to what the headline stated. Just another misleading Sun headline.

Yes so did I, that Sun article has been widely discredited. It's misleading propaganda, as usual. Don't be fooled by it

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes so did I, that Sun article has been widely discredited. It's misleading propaganda, as usual. Don't be fooled by it

you mean the guardian ran a story saying "oh you cant trust polls"

:rolleyes:

until the next time one supports their blatant left wing agenda that is...

[Jamie89]

you mean the guardian ran a story saying "oh you cant trust polls"

:rolleyes:

until the next time one supports their blatant left wing agenda that is...

No, like I said it was widely discredited as being misleading. Have a look into it and you'll see why. I don't really want to give any more attention to it to be honest because it isn't relevant.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, like I said it was widely discredited as being misleading. Have a look into it and you'll see why. I don't really want to give any more attention to it to be honest because it isn't relevant.

so you dont think that there is a worrying level of sympathy amongst muslims in the UK?

[Jamie89]

so you dont think that there is a worrying level of sympathy amongst muslims in the UK?

I honestly don't know, I have no idea what the levels of sympathy are. But obviously if they really are high then that would be worrying, because of course no one should be sympathising with terrorists. But I think realistically that this probably isn't the problem anyway, and if we're looking for a solution to all of this, then segregating or demonising muslim people even further is surely only going to make things worse?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I honestly don't know, I have no idea what the levels of sympathy are. But obviously if they really are high then that would be worrying, because of course no one should be sympathising with terrorists. But I think realistically that this probably isn't the problem anyway, and if we're looking for a solution to all of this, then segregating or demonising muslim people even further is surely only going to make things worse?

tolerating this religion and allowing ghettos to develop has created a huge problem for us

[DemolitionRed]

Dezzy it is Fake

A data base, an ID card, a badge...its all the same thing. Americans have to use ID cards all the time.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/obeidallah-trump-anti-muslim/

[DemolitionRed]

tolerating this religion and allowing ghettos to develop has created a huge problem for us

I don't know where you live LT but I'm in the heart of London and I spend a lot of time visiting friends in Stratford and shop along Mile End Rd. I work with Muslims, I've had Muslim neighbours and I've never felt uncomfortable or threatened when I'm in large Muslim communities, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[T*]

I read an article about this, apparently the poll asked something completely different to what the headline stated. Just another misleading Sun headline.

the sun are absolute *****

[GiRTh]

I don't know where you live LT but I'm in the heart of London and I spend a lot of time visiting friends in Stratford and shop along Mile End Rd. I work with Muslims, I've had Muslim neighbours and I've never felt uncomfortable or threatened when I'm in large Muslim communities, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.:clap1:

[Samm]

He's a ****

[Livia]

It's been done. Didn't turn out well.

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/jewish-yellow-star-classification-8649459.jpg

[JoshBB]

If the past counts for anything, it's that we must learn for it. ID Cards were one of the first tools of oppression used against the Jewish people in WW2 and we must never go down that path again.

Honestly, all this dehumanisation and vilification of muslims.. makes me wonder if he's ever met any? Though there are not that many in my town, all the muslims I've ever spoken to seem like lovely people. I don't doubt there are bad eggs just like any grouping of people, but it's not 'most' of muslims, which is what the media makes out.

[DemolitionRed]

I agree Josh, the press have a lot to answer for. The more we alienate these people and the more we take away their sense of belonging, the more likely they are to kick back at us with equal hatred.

[lostalex]

i don't really see the point. i can already tell who is a muslim very easily. they tend to stick out. i have pretty good musdar.

[Mystic Mock]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUcyxBMWoAE7YtA.jpg

I don't know what's more standout, the girl in the Bikini in the top right corner, or the Jihadist that's holding a Knife whilst looking half asleep?

[Ammi]

..we have no weapons against IS, none..I don't mean armies or governments but the general public because the general public are the targets and the vulnerable...what we do have though and the only thing we have is to not allow communities to turn on each other, to be suspicious of each other and most definitely not to be in some way 'labelled' as a potential 'enemy'...that's exactly what IS want, it really is one of their strongest weapons if we allow it...paranoia, suspicion etc..destroying us without raising a weapon to do so..and good old Donald, giving them exactly what they want...

..obviously in my job, we do PREVENT training and like any safeguarding stuff, it's about things being there that would cause concern..but not looking for them to be there, not scrutinising for them to be there..because if we do that, then we'll be looking from a perspective of negativity and a perspective of suspicion and then that's when a community completely dissolves../job done IS, glad to serve you...

[kirklancaster]

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed them to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

[Mystic Mock]

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed the to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

I think you make some good points on what you're saying, but sadly it's very different to what Donald Trump wants which is to setup a way for the Governments in future to make you have to have ID just to go to your nearest shop, because don't believe that it will just be for Muslims is his real intentions.

[DemolitionRed]

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed them to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

[GiRTh]

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.:clap1:

[Kizzy]

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Vicky.]

Up their own arse rich guys with disgusting views should be made to wear ID badges tbh. I cannot imagine the kind of person who would vote for this idiot, I really can't.

[Kizzy]

Scary isn't it?

[bots]

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

[Niamh.]

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

Scary thought

[lostalex]

I think if Trump ends up being president - and he may well do ... it is America, he will be assassinated within days of taking office

oh please, they said the same thing about Obama being elected. CERTAINLY America being the horrible racist country it is, someone will assassinate Obama... yet here we are 7 years later. :bored:

[Livia]

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

[kirklancaster]

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there and so have others on here, if any have the courage to stand up against the usual over-heated backlash every time some do speak the truth.

"There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities."

I am NOT disputing what you say above about other 'ethnic' ghettos but my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims.

"If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."


My post was NOT a rant unlike your response here. You are the one doing the ranting Red, and again, my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims. If you want to discuss other 'ethnic' ghetto's please start a new thread and I will gladly contribute.

"Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation..."

I am NOT "Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion" - that is clearly NOT what I said - I am saying that SOME Muslim immigrants freely ELECT to insulate themselves from the rest of mainstream Britain, and CHOOSE to create their own 'ghettos', and OPT not to integrate and accept our way of life, our laws and traditions, and if you KNOW differently, then you are living in la la land. '

"...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like. "

Now this is totally unacceptable. Do not presume to know me and know what or who I "don't like". You do not know me. You do not know my likes and dislikes.

You are totally - and clearly - wrong in stating this last on so many counts:

a) I have already stated WHY I did not include any other 'ethnic minorities' (a misnomer if ever there was one where certain parts of the UK are concerned) and my explanation is both logical and true - Do we start discussing apples, pears and bananas on a thread which is specifically discussing oranges?

b) "Moaning about bloody immigrants" is NOT what I was doing - I was moaning about certain people forever using certain cliched terms when talking about Muslims; "I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims" - is EXACTLY what I said. It's there in my post for you to check.

I was merely STATING FACTS about some Muslims - and that truth seems to have so illogically enraged you that you misrepresent what I actually said and caused you to respond with this ilogical 'rant'.

"Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem."

And??? What is your point? And what has it to do with my post?

"I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is."

Good for you. I have lived in Islington for a time and Minehead and Scarborough and Manchester for a time - among other locations - and I have made lots of friends with Orthodox Jews as well as Non-Orthodox Jews, and even dated a couple of Jewish girls in my youth. What have Jews in particular got to do with my post which was specifically on Muslims for the reasons I stated?

Or is this just more 'back-door' tactics of mildly slating Judaism because you perceive from my posts that I am 'Jew Friendly'? You know, the way you did with Christianity because I am a Christian when you needlessly wrote: "and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."?

I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.

[Kizzy]

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

[bots]

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

[Livia]

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

[Kizzy]

'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous.

I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences. The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical.

[Kizzy]

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

And that report is concrete evidence of your accusation against all Muslims?
It's a generalisation.

[Tom4784]

After looking into these Sharia patrols, I've not found much outside of incidents in 2013-14 which were dealt with by the police and condemned by the Muslim community. I've not been able to find any reports of recent patrols that weren't recycled propaganda from wannabe Britain First websites.

[GiRTh]

After looking into these Sharia patrols, I've not found much outside of incidents in 2013-14 which were dealt with by the police and condemned by the Muslim community. I've not been able to find any reports of recent patrols that weren't recycled propaganda from wannabe Britain First websites.This. One of the only things I can find is that the patrols have been broken up and the members prosecuted.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/459782/Muslim-Patrol-handed-Asbos-banning-Sharia-Law-promotion-or-meeting-Anjem-Choudary

[Cherie]

I regularly travel to Whitechapel for meetings and have done for 15 years never had an issue and never felt intimidated

[Kizzy]

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

Really, never been to Ireland then?

[Niamh.]

Really, never been to Ireland then?

Eh?

[Kizzy]

Patrols in Whitechapel?

Members of the nationalist group Britain First drove an armoured van to the East London Mosque on January 16 before handing out anti-Muslim leaflets in Brick Lane.

A similar “patrol” took place in the same area a year ago in response to so-called “Muslim Patrols” that resulted in Islamists being jailed for abusing the public.

On that occasion the group said it hoped to “bait” Muslims with alcohol and cigarettes in order to provoke trouble.

Police were alerted about the so-called Christian patrols and spoke to members of the group, but said no crimes were committed and no arrests made.

They added police presence had already been beefed up in Brick Lane for the area’s busy nightlife.

Rushanara Ali, MP for Bethnal Green and Bow, said there was no place for the “divisive” patrols in the East End.

http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/far_right_christian_patrols_back_in_whitechapel_ta rgeting_muslims_1_3925512

[Kizzy]

Eh?

Sorry shouldn't have put it like that, I was just alluding to past sectarian violence as a response to BOTS point.

[MB.]

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Niamh.]

Sorry shouldn't have put it like that, I was just alluding to past sectarian violence as a response to BOTS point.

mmm well, tbf I don't think the troubles in the North can be put down to a religious thing like this conversation. The troubles in the North were about Britain splitting a country in two and the Irish section wanting to be Irish and the British section wanting to be British, neither were trying to convert anyone or force their religious beliefs on people, it just so happened that most "Irish" people in North happened to be Catholic and most "British" people in Northern Ireland happened to be Protestant

[Niamh.]

Well that's already a contradiction

:hehe:

[Kizzy]

mmm well, tbf I don't think the troubles in the North can be put down to a religious thing like this conversation. The troubles in the North were about Britain splitting a country in two and the Irish section wanting to be Irish and the British section wanting to be British, neither were trying to convert anyone or force their religious beliefs on people, it just so happened that most "Irish" people in North happened to be Catholic and most "British" people in Northern Ireland happened to be Protestant

From an Irish perspective that's true, yet from an English perspective the troubles seemed very religion based which is why I used Ireland as a response to this,

'Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition.'

It seemed that they very much did back then.
I suppose historically it was more religion based than it is today.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well that's already a contradiction

:joker:

[Niamh.]

From an Irish perspective that's true, yet from an English perspective the troubles seemed very religion based which is why I used Ireland as a response to this,

'Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition.'

It seemed that they very much did back then.
I suppose historically it was more religion based than it is today.

But it wasn't at all though, our country was torn in two, that's what it was about. The IRA had Protestant members too. It was completely about some of the people from Northern Ireland wanting Ireland to be united and some (mainly Protestant because they probably originally came over from Britain) wanting to be British. It's bizarre to me that English people think it was a Religious war, Hello you invaded our country and split it in two........that's what it's about

[bots]

Really, never been to Ireland then?

If you need to stretch to Ireland to find a comparison, I think it shows the validity of my statement tbh

[Johnnyuk123]

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.
_SK7To4gSr0

[Kizzy]

If you need to stretch to Ireland to find a comparison, I think it shows the validity of my statement tbh

Stretch?... It's not that far away :/

[Kizzy]

But it wasn't at all though, our country was torn in two, that's what it was about. The IRA had Protestant members too. It was completely about some of the people from Northern Ireland wanting Ireland to be united and some (mainly Protestant because they probably originally came over from Britain) wanting to be British. It's bizarre to me that English people think it was a Religious war, Hello you invaded our country and split it in two........that's what it's about

The original invasion did also have a religious element to it, as for the argument that only Muslims integrate. This could be applied here too, as however you look at it there is a degree of resistance to integrate from the Irish Catholics, either with the British or with Protestantism.

[Niamh.]

The original invasion did also have a religious element to it, as for the argument that only Muslims integrate. This could be applied here too, as however you look at it there is a degree of resistance to integrate from the Irish Catholics, either with the British or with Protestantism.

You say that like the "Irish" Northern Irish just moved to Britain lol not that they feel like foreigners in their own country :shrug:

catholic Irish people who move to England integrate just fine with British people and protestants.........do you see the difference? **** all to do with religion

[Kizzy]

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.
_SK7To4gSr0

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

[Livia]

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

There is no kind of evidence that would dissuade you now you're stretching for the last word.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that moderate Muslims are the problem, they're not. It's the more radical Muslims that take the freedoms we have and criticise us for them.

[Kizzy]

You say that like the "Irish" Northern Irish just moved to Britain lol not that they feel like foreigners in their own country :shrug:

catholic Irish people who move to England integrate just fine with British people and protestants.........do you see the difference? **** all to do with religion

Ok yes I do see a difference, I wasn't trying to upset or offend you I'm very sorry if I have.
Growing up in the 80s it did feel or it was sold as a religious sectarian issue.

[Kizzy]

There is no kind of evidence that would dissuade you now you're stretching for the last word.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that moderate Muslims are the problem, they're not. It's the more radical Muslims that take the freedoms we have and criticise us for them.

I'm having my say Livia yes.

[kirklancaster]

Well that's already a contradiction

Not at all - I am a dark skinned British part Asian - not a Muslim Asian but part Asian nonetheless, and I went to quite a few of these West Yorkshire 'Ghettos' with dark skinned full blown Muslim Asians.

If you are a white skinned English non-Muslim, I would be glad to meet you and take you to some of these places and I'll wait in my car for you while you bravely walk on by yourself - past the Asian shops where up to 20 youths hang around, then - if the derisory cat-calls and threatening stares or worse do not deter you - you can continue up the streets where you will meet more of the same aggression and hostility.

We'll see how quickly you run back to my car.

No contradiction at all see?

[Niamh.]

Ok yes I do see a difference, I wasn't trying to upset or offend you I'm very sorry if I have.
Growing up in the 80s it did feel or it was sold as a religious sectarian issue.

No worries :love:

[arista]

_SK7To4gSr0



Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;8314426]'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

"As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous."


What does this which I underscored actually mean?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE IS ANY MORE VALID THAN YOURS? Stick to facts, your constant misrepresenting is wearing.


"I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences."


I could not care less who you so predictably agree with. And if I the cap fits wear it, because DID I NAME YOU?

My point is that how can one agree with a response post which MISINTERPRETS the points made in the original post which it is responding to? Especially when the author of that original post has taken the time and trouble to reply and point out such misinterpretations?

Still agreeing after the above, shows not empathy through a shared point of view, but bigotry purely because such a response is against the original poster.

"The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical."


Another blatantly false statement based on convenient supposition NOT facts. Yes I use the applause emoticon regularly, but not in any sheep-like manner to merely support members who I like or who hold the same political opinions that I do, I applaud posts ONLY where I GENUINELY regard such posts as being meritorious - no matter WHO is posting them.

I have applauded posts by your good self, Joey Steele, Demolition Red, ToySoldier, Cherie, and a host of other members - NONE of whom particularly share my politics or other views.

However, I notice that despite me regularly being among the MOST applauded on here for my posts - if not THE most applauded - YOU have never seen fit to applaud ANY of my posts. I would say that is more 'telling' than 'coincidence' and just corroborates the very point I made in my post which you are decrying and responding to.

[Livia]

Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

Sadly though, people died for the freedom to protest in this country, which has given people like him the right to stand up and damn us all to hell. They choose to live here and then use our own freedom to attack us.

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;8314426]'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

"As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous."


What does this which I underscored actually mean?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE IS ANY MORE VALID THAN YOURS? Stick to facts, your constant misrepresenting is wearing.


"I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences."


I could not care less who you so predictably agree with. And if I the cap fits wear it, because DID I NAME YOU?

My point is that how can one agree with a response post which MISINTERPRETS the points made in the original post which it is responding to? Especially when the author of that original post has taken the time and trouble to reply and point out such misinterpretations?

Still agreeing after the above, shows not empathy through a shared point of view, but bigotry purely because such a response is against the original poster.

"The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical."


Another blatantly false statement based on convenient supposition NOT facts. Yes I use the applause emoticon regularly, but not in any sheep-like manner to merely support members who I like or who hold the same political opinions that I do, I applaud posts ONLY where I GENUINELY regard such posts as being meritorious - no matter WHO is posting them.

I have applauded posts by your good self, Joey Steele, Demolition Red, ToySoldier, Cherie, and a host of other members - NONE of whom particularly share my politics or other views.

However, I notice that despite me regularly being among the MOST applauded on here for my posts - if not THE most applauded - YOU have never seen fit to applaud ANY of my posts. I would say that is more 'telling' than 'coincidence' and just corroborates the very point I made in my post which you are decrying and responding to.

Not blowing your own trumpet a tad?... dear me, I just clapped as I agreed with a post :/
Let's stick to the topic.

[Kizzy]

Sadly though, people died for the freedom to protest in this country, which has given people like him the right to stand up and damn us all to hell. They choose to live here and then use our own freedom to attack us.

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;8314684]

Not blowing your own trumpet a tad?... dear me, I just clapped as I agreed with a post :/
Let's stick to the topic.

:joker: No - not blowing my own trumpet, just stating facts.

I have no probem 'sticking to topics' but like to do so without constantly being deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresented for the sake of argument winning.

[Livia]

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

[Niamh.]

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

Agree with that totally

[kirklancaster]

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;8314705]

:joker: No - not blowing my own trumpet, just stating facts.

I have no probem 'sticking to topics' but like to do so without constantly being deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresented for the sake of argument winning.

You did this when you commented on my clapping, I was just defending my right to agree with whoever I like.

[kirklancaster]

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in.

[Kizzy]

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

It was a woman in the crowd that made those comments, it was not the reason for the protest nor the words of the Imam she spoke to.
Again suggesting that is the feeling of all British Muslims is a generalisation.

[Kizzy]

There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in.

Which is why we have hate laws.

[kirklancaster]

Which is why we have hate laws.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::joker::joker::joker::joker:: joker::joker::joker::joker:
You kidding me?

You type this:

Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.


Which is CLEARLY defending the rights of the intolerant arrogant bastards in the video, so I respond with this:

Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
"There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in."

Then you respond with this:

"Which is why we have hate laws"

Your posts REALLY are confused Kizzy, sorry.

Why would 'Hate Laws' come into this if - as you claimed - these bastards have the 'freedom' to act in the hateful way they are acting in the video?

[Livia]

It was a woman in the crowd that made those comments, it was not the reason for the protest nor the words of the Imam she spoke to.
Again suggesting that is the feeling of all British Muslims is a generalisation.

So? I don't care who said it, what the reason for the protest was nor what the imam said in that one piece of film.

Please, point out who has said that it is the feeling of ALL British Muslims. I have no problem with the moderates, I don't suppose most people do. Only with the fundamentalists. And you'll notice, there's nothing like the trouble in this country with fundamentalists from any other faith but Islam.

[DemolitionRed]

On analyses of your post I responded to, lets see why I responded like I did

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

and then you say:

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them

So you say you hate the word 'alienate' but then went on to 'alienate' Muslims from every other type of immigrant who apparently bleed our system dry?

[Northern Monkey]

Not at all - I am a dark skinned British part Asian - not a Muslim Asian but part Asian nonetheless, and I went to quite a few of these West Yorkshire 'Ghettos' with dark skinned full blown Muslim Asians.

If you are a white skinned English non-Muslim, I would be glad to meet you and take you to some of these places and I'll wait in my car for you while you bravely walk on by yourself - past the Asian shops where up to 20 youths hang around, then - if the derisory cat-calls and threatening stares or worse do not deter you - you can continue up the streets where you will meet more of the same aggression and hostility.

We'll see how quickly you run back to my car.

No contradiction at all see?
Yep.I have experienced this in West Yorkshire.

[Northern Monkey]

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.
_SK7To4gSr0

The sad truth of Islam in Britain.Alot of them will be all nicey nicey when you're giving them money in their taxi or corner shop.Then do things like this when they leave work and don't have to tolerate you anymore.I have seen many racist gangs of muslims abusing non muslims.I've seen a muslim man with a veiled white woman dragging her down the street and kicking and shouting at her.They spit at and abuse our soldiers and hold 'protests' with placards saying 'Death to all non believers.Of course people choose to ignore all of this for fear of upsetting them.

[Cherie]

The sad truth of Islam in Britain.Alot of them will be all nicey nicey when you're giving them money in their taxi or corner shop.Then do things like this when they leave work and don't have to tolerate you anymore.I have seen many racist gangs of muslims abusing non muslims.I've seen a muslim man with a veiled white woman dragging her down the street and kicking and shouting at her.They spit at and abuse our soldiers and hold 'protests' with placards saying 'Death to all non believers.Of course people choose to ignore all of this for fear of upsetting them.

No we don't ignore it, but like white English thugs they are a small minority

[Johnnyuk123]

I saw this video a while ago now but think it really helps shed light on why intergration into western society is still very difficult for many muslim people. Sorry but this video is not in english so you will have to read the subtitles. It's worth a watch.
f6Xve4O4rF0

[GiRTh]

No we don't ignore it, but like white English thugs they are a small minority
:clap1:

[erinp5]

Seems he's moved on to mocking disabled journalist
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-condemned-for-mocking-journalists-disability-during-campaign-speech-a6749346.html

[kirklancaster]

On analyses of your post I responded to, lets see why I responded like I did

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

and then you say:

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them

So you say you hate the word 'alienate' but then went on to 'alienate' Muslims from every other type of immigrant who apparently bleed our system dry?

You are an educated, intelligent woman Red, so this is beneath you - or maybe not.

I have extensively explained WHY I was referring specifically to Muslims.

1) This thread is specifically about Muslims.
2) The usage of the words 'Alienate' etc is in posts on this thread and was used specifically about Muslims.

I am alienating no one by pointing out the TRUTH that certain people are overlooking the very real fact that a lot of immigrants - especially Muslims - segregate themselves and want NO part of integrating with indigenious British people, or our way of life, or our laws and traditions and customs.

Now, if you can find GENUINE fault with that statement, then please enlighten me, but there is no need for dishonest 'straw clutching' in trying to make out that I am saying something which I am NOT saying.

As for my innocuous and perfectably normal use of the descriptor 'them' to describe a group of people - why do you attempt to make out that I am being 'racist' or that I am 'alienating' such a group by using such a normal word?

Should I laboriously write out the name of the group in full just so that I am not unjustly accused of being racist or xenophobic or anti-immigrant by opportunists reaching for straws?

No - I am not afraid to speak the truth - on this forum or in the real world. It is said on here that Trump is 'dangerous' and a 'fool' and that may well be the truth , because he sees 'things' that are not there. But there are other kinds of dangerous fools as well - those who CANNOT see what IS there - of which perhaps the worst of them are those who try to INTIMIDATE into silence those of us who CAN see what is there.

[JoshBB]

No we don't ignore it, but like white English thugs they are a small minority

Basically this.

There are troublemakers in every group, the difference is that the media chooses to pick out mostly the 'bad' muslims and does negative stories around that because it sells better in the current climate of perceived racial tensions towards muslims.

[GiRTh]

Seems he's moved on to mocking disabled journalist
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-condemned-for-mocking-journalists-disability-during-campaign-speech-a6749346.htmlIts a fallacy to say Trump is's trying to address anything. Trump's policies are all so vague to give the impression he makes them up on the spot but he does tend to say the things people want to hear. Donald should stick to this ie insulting anyone who goes against him as that seems to be the biggest reason why he is still ahead in the polls.

[bots]

Basically this.

There are troublemakers in every group, the difference is that the media chooses to pick out mostly the 'bad' muslims and does negative stories around that because it sells better in the current climate of perceived racial tensions towards muslims.

The dangers we are facing from ISIS are far more extreme than from any other group in the UK. That's a fact. Many ISIS supporters are home grown so it is a very serious issue that needs to be explored fully. It is not appropriate any longer to sweep issues under the carpet. Any hint of extremism needs to be exposed immediately

[kirklancaster]

The dangers we are facing from ISIS are far more extreme than from any other group in the UK. That's a fact. Many ISIS supporters are home grown so it is a very serious issue that needs to be explored fully. It is not appropriate any longer to sweep issues under the carpet. Any hint of extremism needs to be exposed immediately

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[GiRTh]

The dangers we are facing from ISIS are far more extreme than from any other group in the UK. That's a fact. Many ISIS supporters are home grown so it is a very serious issue that needs to be explored fully. It is not appropriate any longer to sweep issues under the carpet. Any hint of extremism needs to be exposed immediatelyIf its a fact then where are the stats to back up these 'facts'.

[bots]

If its a fact then where are the stats to back up these 'facts'.

the facts to back it up are the murders that have already been committed in the UK and other countries together with the jailing of terrorists caught prior to them carrying out action.

[GiRTh]

the facts to back it up are the murders that have already been committed in the UK and other countries together with the jailing of terrorists caught prior to them carrying out action.List them for me.

[bots]

List them for me.

No, look it up yourself

[DemolitionRed]

If you want to back an argument up with examples, you will always find them. That works either way.
You believe in what you believe and they believe in what they believe.
Regardless of what you say they won't agree with you.
Regardless of what they say, you won't agree with them.
People walk away from debates like this hot under the collar and with the same thoughts they had when they entered.

And Kirk, I made no suggestion that you are racist/xenophobic. I think you, like many people in Britain, are anxious about Muslim immigrants and that anxiousness isn't just about the radicalised ones. That's the difference between you and I...radicalised Sunni's worry me, quite a lot actually; the rest don't.

[GiRTh]

No, look it up yourselfI've looked it up[ and I cant find much in the way of 'facts' so I want you tell me where you are looking cuz it cant be the same place as me.

[alex_front2]

I hope stories like this keep coming. Every one of them is another nail in his campaign.
Sorry but not everyone is a liberal. It will boost support from many quarters.

[Tom4784]

Sorry but not everyone is a liberal. It will boost support from many quarters.

Not likely, he only has support from the extreme parts of the Republican party. One thing that Republicans have failed to understand in the last eight years is that the conservative white middle class vote is not enough to win the White House anymore. Trump's done everything in his power to offend everyone who isn't apart of his small following and even if he gets the Republican nod, he'll never get enough support to actually win against the Democratic candidate.

[kirklancaster]

If you want to back an argument up with examples, you will always find them. That works either way.
You believe in what you believe and they believe in what they believe.
Regardless of what you say they won't agree with you.
Regardless of what they say, you won't agree with them.
People walk away from debates like this hot under the collar and with the same thoughts they had when they entered.

And Kirk, I made no suggestion that you are racist/xenophobic. I think you, like many people in Britain, are anxious about Muslim immigrants and that anxiousness isn't just about the radicalised ones. That's the difference between you and I...radicalised Sunni's worry me, quite a lot actually; the rest don't.


No prob Red. I am genuinely NOT concerned or afraid of ordinary moderate Muslims though. If you moved through just one normal month with me you would certainly be astonished just who number among my friends and associates.

Most of the Muslims I associate with are as detestful of IS and their supporters as I am.

It's the UK based Muslims who do NOT voice that same hatred who I DO have problems with.

[Kizzy]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::joker::joker::joker::joker:: joker::joker::joker::joker:
You kidding me?

You type this:

Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.


Which is CLEARLY defending the rights of the intolerant arrogant bastards in the video, so I respond with this:

Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
"There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in."

Then you respond with this:

"Which is why we have hate laws"

Your posts REALLY are confused Kizzy, sorry.

Why would 'Hate Laws' come into this if - as you claimed - these bastards have the 'freedom' to act in the hateful way they are acting in the video?

I don't know what you are finding so funny...
How am I defending anyone? I clearly stated that I didn't agree with what they were saying you clearly misunderstood me.

We do have hate laws to protect us all from hate speech, if there are any inciteful rants from anyone they are dealt with :conf:
That was my point there, if you are confused then I don't feel I'm the one with the issue, my posts are pretty clear.

[Kizzy]

So? I don't care who said it, what the reason for the protest was nor what the imam said in that one piece of film.

Please, point out who has said that it is the feeling of ALL British Muslims. I have no problem with the moderates, I don't suppose most people do. Only with the fundamentalists. And you'll notice, there's nothing like the trouble in this country with fundamentalists from any other faith but Islam.

I was just clarifying what was actually happening in the vid.

Ah I see you didn't mean all, just the fundamentals? well I thought that would go without saying that we are all against fundamentals.

Getting back on topic I don't feel all Muslims should be forced to have ID due to the actions of fundamentalist Muslims.

[Kizzy]

No we don't ignore it, but like white English thugs they are a small minority

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Kizzy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUcyxBMWoAE7YtA.jpg

Labour MPs have demanded a meeting with the editor of the Sun newspaper for approving a front-page story that falsely claimed one in five British Muslims had sympathy with those who have left to fight for Islamic State in Syria.

The 10 MPs said in a letter to the Sun on Thursday: “We are writing to request a meeting with you regarding your recent story ‘1 in 5 Brit Muslims’ sympathy for jihadists’ from Monday 23 November.”

Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, led the Labour backbench call for an explanation from Tony Gallagher, the tabloid’s editor. The MPs said they were worried about the impact “flawed” and “misleading” stories have in stoking hate crimes.

They said editorial decisions “have consequences on attitudes to Muslims in the UK”, adding that this week there had been an “alarming increase” in attacks on British Muslims.

“Figures this week show that in one week since the barbaric Paris attacks hate crimes against Muslims have increased by 300% in the UK,” said the parliamentarians, who included Rushanara Ali, Labour MP for Bethnal Green and Bow, and Liam Byrne, Labour MP for Birmingham Hodge Hill.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/26/mps-demand-meeting-with-sun-editor-over-british-muslim-survey-story

[Mystic Mock]

I've had quite a few Muslim friends in my short life so far, but tbf I think that it's understandable to be anxious against Islam as a Religion because it is in the modern times creating the most Terrorist organisations out of the Religions.

Do I agree with Trump's idea? Hell no, but I can definitely understand Kirk's paranoia on this thread, and I can understand why people are scared to go into mainly Muslim areas.

But I also understand the other point of view that the Media should be trying to calm people down about the Muslims and show some of their good sides, and not just show all of the ISIS stuff to cover up the fact about other areas where we know corruption is.

[Kizzy]

dQVMdh6d3h0

[DemolitionRed]

Steve's dad was a small child when his dual national grandparent fled with him from Nazi occupied Poland. On reaching these shores though, they apparently were not received well. He often speaks about the anti-semitic feeling in this country during WW2 and especially the intolerant attitude of the Brits towards the Jewish refugees, it was so bad that when they got out of London, the family surname was changed to a very English sounding one and he was discouraged from speaking his mother tongue and warned not to talk about his past, in fact he was encouraged to make up stories about where he'd come from.

Every time I see a headline like the one Kizzy has just shown, I can't help but feel, this is history repeating itself. The trouble is, this is what a gullible public want because it backs up their own uneducated judgements. It doesn't matter if its true or not to those who choose to believe it; its just more evidence they so gleefully want.

[Kizzy]

Exactly, I feel the same that history is repeating itself. Jews with German accents being looked at as nazis are eerily similar to the Syrians and Afghans being aligned with ISIS/L.