Hungarian driver takes on migrants at Calais

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jesus who would be a lorry driver with that lot?

:umm2:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c61_1448560291

[Kizzy]

So what's on there then, does he get beat up?

[bots]

that's just a mental number of illegals trying to get in to the UK, its so blatant too

[Kizzy]

The guy is insane, ranting along to his ministry of sound 98 trying to run people over :/

[kirklancaster]

He should be more careful with all those streams of poor women and children about as usual.

[kirklancaster]

The guy is insane, ranting along to his ministry of sound 98 trying to run people over :/

No - the insane ones are those who REALLY believe that these fit, well clad, well shod, healthy young men are genuine 'Refugees' and not opportunist ******* chancers.

And the DANGEROUSLY INSANE ones are those who believe the above and try to CONVINCE or INTIMIDATE the rest of us into agreeing.

[Kizzy]

No - the insane ones are those who REALLY believe that these fit, well clad, well shod, healthy young men are genuine 'Refugees' and not opportunist ******* chancers.

And the DANGEROUSLY INSANE ones are those who believe the above and try to CONVINCE or INTIMIDATE the rest of us into agreeing.

Ah right, it's not people who say that those seeking refuge from war are all well shod chancers that are making wild generalisations?

[kirklancaster]

Ah right, it's not people who say that those seeking refuge from war are all well shod chancers that are making wild generalisations?

Here you go again - deliberately MISREPRESENTING what I have posted and what is here on this thread for ALL the world to see. :shrug:

WHERE do I say that "those seeking refuge from war are ALL well shod chancers"? Or to couch it as you are deceitfully trying to imply; Where do I say that ALL Refugees are Chancers?

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to all these hundreds of fit, well clad, healthy young men in this SPECIFIC video which LT posted on this SPECIFIC thread - WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?

Please stop 'straw clutching' and 'misrepresenting' if you want to discuss or debate with me.

[Kizzy]

Here you go again - deliberately MISREPRESENTING what I have posted and what is here on this thread for ALL the world to see. :shrug:

WHERE do I say that "those seeking refuge from war are all well shod chancers"?

I am referring SPECIFICALLY to all these hundreds of fit, well clad, healthy young men in this SPECIFIC video which LT posted on this SPECIFIC thread - WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?

Please stop 'straw clutching' and 'misrepresenting' if you want to discuss or debate with me.

'these fit, well clad, well shod, healthy young men are genuine 'Refugees' and not opportunist ******* chancers.'

Here, you infer it here Kirk... You can write chapter and verse on why I'm wrong but that's how it comes across, sorry.

[Mystic Mock]

Well as his from Hungary did he try to eat them after trying to run them over?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ah right, it's not people who say that those seeking refuge from war are all well shod chancers that are making wild generalisations?

every one of that lot were 18-25 economic migrants. Real refugees do not hurl rocks at lory drivers and have mobiles to call as they are looking to stowaway to get to England

did you watch the video?

[Kizzy]

every one of that lot were 18-25 economic migrants. Real refugees do not hurl rocks at lory drivers and have mobiles to call as they are looking to stowaway to get to England

did you watch the video?

They didn't hurl rocks until he tried to plough into them with his lorry :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

They didn't hurl rocks until he tried to plough into them with his lorry :/

they were doing it before and I heard on the radio its standard procedure if a driver tries to get out his cab when they are climbing in the back

[Kizzy]

they were doing it before and I heard on the radio its standard procedure if a driver tries to get out his cab when they are climbing in the back

It doesn't show anyone throwing anything before that... You're mr live link, let's see the evidence.

[arista]

He is getting Angry with them


Its understandable

[Crimson Dynamo]

It doesn't show anyone throwing anything before that... You're mr live link, let's see the evidence.

2.04

[kirklancaster]

every one of that lot were 18-25 economic migrants. Real refugees do not hurl rocks at lory drivers and have mobiles to call as they are looking to stowaway to get to England

did you watch the video?

I did - and I see what you see, but I also KNOW that these ***** are no refugees.

[Kizzy]

2.04

It does look like he makes a gesture but there's nothing in his hand and nothing is thrown.
The two in the road in front look very young just prior to that. It's a very sad, very desperate situation and yes my heart is bleeding. I am human and I do feel empathy.
There but for the grace of god and all that.

[Kizzy]

I did - and I see what you see, but I also KNOW that these ***** are no refugees.

No you don't, you know no more or less than anyone else.

[bots]

No you don't, you know no more or less than anyone else.

legitimate refugees don't need to stand at the side of the road trying to jump on a lorry ... so that means each and every one is an illegal. That is beyond argument.

[Kizzy]

legitimate refugees don't need to stand at the side of the road trying to jump on a lorry ... so that means each and every one is an illegal. That is beyond argument.

Don't they, so what is the process then for refugees?

[kirklancaster]

legitimate refugees don't need to stand at the side of the road trying to jump on a lorry ... so that means each and every one is an illegal. That is beyond argument.

Beyond RATIONAL argument BitOnTheSlide.

[Livia]

Again... how many "safe" countries have this lot (all these able-bodied young men) been through in order to reach Calais so they can get here? And why? No one needs to answer, we all know the answer already.

[joeysteele]

Again... how many "safe" countries have this lot (all these able-bodied young men) been through in order to reach Calais so they can get here? And why? No one needs to answer, we all know the answer already.

I don't know the answer actually for one and I wouldn't myself presume to judge them just negatively either until I knew for certain, 100%, the answer too as to them.

[Livia]

I don't know the answer actually for one and I wouldn't myself presume to judge them just negatively either until I knew for certain, 100%, the answer too as to them.

They are predominantly young men between 18 and 30 trying to enter this country illegally. That's how I judge them. And if they're trying to enter here illegally it makes me question the legitimacy of their refugee status, or surely a large number of them would have stopped at the first safe country they arrived in... or the second... or the third.

The best way for refugees to enter this country is via the UN camps where we can have some kind of certainty about who the people entering are and we can make a priority of families with kids.

[joeysteele]

They are predominantly young men between 18 and 30 trying to enter this country illegally. That's how I judge them. And if they're trying to enter here illegally it makes me question the legitimacy of their refugee status, or surely a large number of them would have stopped at the first safe country they arrived in... or the second... or the third.

The best way for refugees to enter this country is via the UN camps where we can have some kind of certainty about who the people entering are and we can make a priority of families with kids.

If they know about such places and the system fair enough, what if they are just so desperate to feel safer that they try to cut corners,
We don't know them personally to understand why in desperation people appear to do strange things.
I really don't see what age has to do with things either,facing being forced into military service and getting your head lopped off by IS or others, or becoming part of IS and getting bombed to blazes. no wonder they try to flee.

Until we were in such desperate situations, we can only assume what could be the panic and fear these people feel.
There may not be any rational answer at all as to how and why they act in such a desperate situation.

Not for me there isn't anyway.
It is far too easy to take the line of all is either black or white while totally ignoring all the vast grey areas.

[Northern Monkey]

Again... how many "safe" countries have this lot (all these able-bodied young men) been through in order to reach Calais so they can get here? And why? No one needs to answer, we all know the answer already.
Exactly :clap1:

[Cherie]

I don't really understand why they are allowed to set up camp and basically harrass drivers and put their livelihoods at risk, shame on France for not sorting it.

[kirklancaster]

I don't really understand why they are allowed to set up camp and basically harrass drivers and put their livelihoods at risk, shame on France for not sorting it.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[kirklancaster]

They are predominantly young men between 18 and 30 trying to enter this country illegally. That's how I judge them. And if they're trying to enter here illegally it makes me question the legitimacy of their refugee status, or surely a large number of them would have stopped at the first safe country they arrived in... or the second... or the third.

The best way for refugees to enter this country is via the UN camps where we can have some kind of certainty about who the people entering are and we can make a priority of families with kids.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: COMMON SENSE.

[Mystic Mock]

If they know about such places and the system fair enough, what if they are just so desperate to feel safer that they try to cut corners,
We don't know them personally to understand why in desperation people appear to do strange things.
I really don't see what age has to do with things either,facing being forced into military service and getting your head lopped off by IS or others, or becoming part of IS and getting bombed to blazes. no wonder they try to flee.

Until we were in such desperate situations, we can only assume what could be the panic and fear these people feel.
There may not be any rational answer at all as to how and why they act in such a desperate situation.

Not for me there isn't anyway.
It is far too easy to take the line of all is either black or white while totally ignoring all the vast grey areas.

:clap1: I don't know how I would behave if I was under ISIS rule.

[Ammi]

..what a grumpy Hungarian...

[kirklancaster]

:clap1: I don't know how I would behave if I was under ISIS rule.

Yeah Mock - But would you leave your mother, father, brothers and sisters, grand parents, uncles, aunties etc etc. to face the terror of IS and almost certain death, rape and being sold off into sex slavery, while you join hundreds of other young men to casually stroll through one after another of safe European countries en route to the UK?

[joeysteele]

:clap1: I don't know how I would behave if I was under ISIS rule.

That's the point until we were under it, really none of us do, or what lengths we would go to either to try to get away and save our lives.
Once panic and fear take over, reason and common sense can be and very often is lost.

Very easy to judge such people in that desperation negatively when not in the same position ourselves.
Totally agree with you Mock as to your very brief but very fair point.

I swear some of the UK is becoming totally intolerant and totally judgemental rather than reaching out in crisis.
What a poorer Nation we will,morally, be if that attitude spreads further across the UK.

[joeysteele]

Yeah Mock - But would you leave your mother, father, brothers and sisters, grand parents, uncles, aunties etc etc. to face the terror of IS and almost certain death, rape and being sold off into sex slavery, while you join hundreds of other young men to casually stroll through one after another of safe European countries en route to the UK?

As I said, reason and common sense goes out the window when fear and panic set in, many of the older relatives likely feel the younger ones can get out get safe and then if there is any chance to get the older ones out too.

I would dare bet many of the young men getting derided for fleeing were encouraged,even strongly urged to leave and try to get some sanctuary elsewhere.
We don't know everything, in fact we know very little of the situations of them all and therefore I will not make any negative judgements until there is undisputed proof to the contrary.

What is becoming more sad for me is that these desperate individuals still see the UK as a compassionate and loving Nation, when there are now a minority,( still thankfully a minority), who seem intent on taking the UK in a totally opposite position to that.

[Mystic Mock]

Yeah Mock - But would you leave your mother, father, brothers and sisters, grand parents, uncles, aunties etc etc. to face the terror of IS and almost certain death, rape and being sold off into sex slavery, while you join hundreds of other young men to casually stroll through one after another of safe European countries en route to the UK?

Well no I would try and bring along as many of my family members as much as possible, if none of them wanted to go then yes I would still flee anyway as I'd given them the chance to avoid the scenarios that you're saying, but they didn't take it, which these men might've took my approach anyway.

[bots]

Well no I would try and bring along as many of my family members as much as possible, if none of them wanted to go then yes I would still flee anyway as I'd given them the chance to avoid the scenarios that you're saying, but they didn't take it, which these men might've took my approach anyway.

Did you watch the video Mock? These are not Syrian refugees fleeing from terror. If they were, they would be thankful to be in the first country that offered them safety. At that point they are safe from harm yet still at the closest point to any relatives they left behind and are still waiting on. Instead, once safe, they have gone through several countries, further away from their families. These are all people illegally trying to get in to the UK

[joeysteele]

Well no I would try and bring along as many of my family members as much as possible, if none of them wanted to go then yes I would still flee anyway as I'd given them the chance to avoid the scenarios that you're saying, but they didn't take it, which these men might've took my approach anyway.

Exactly Mock, none of us even have the slightest idea as to whether that was in fact the case too, that others didn't want to leave at that time,then the younger ones left.

It seems some know 100% for sure that 'all' of these desperate people are only 'illegal' immigrants, all of them.
That's actually even something govts and security people cannot say with full certainty.
Incredible.

[bots]

Exactly Mock, none of us even have the slightest idea as to whether that was in fact the case too, that others didn't want to leave at that time,then the younger ones left.

It seems some know 100% for sure that 'all' of these desperate people are only 'illegal' immigrants, all of them.
That's actually even something govts and security people cannot say with full certainty.
Incredible.

Joey, by definition they are illegal because they are sneaking in to the UK on the back of lorries rather than going through official channels. They are doing so from a country that is safe from persecution and war. Are you seriously suggesting that is a legal method to enter the UK?

[joeysteele]

Joey, by definition they are illegal because they are sneaking in to the UK on the back of lorries rather than going through official channels. They are doing so from a country that is safe from persecution and war. Are you seriously suggesting that is a legal method to enter the UK?

I repeat again, in times of great fear and panic, reason,clear thinking and even planning along with what is termed common sense, whatever that may be to whoever says that, goes out the window,
So no, nothing anyone in such a desperate plight may do,in my view, warrants negative judgements of them.
Unless actually proven to be doing wrong and it is known for certain, not just making speculative negative judgements on their appearances and actions.

[bots]

I repeat again, in times of great fear and panic, reason,clear thinking and even planning along with what is termed common sense, whatever that may be to whoever says that, goes out the window,
So no, nothing anyone in such a desperate plight may do,in my view, warrants negative judgements of them.
Unless actually proven to be doing wrong and it is known for certain, not just making speculative negative judgements on their appearances and actions.

We will have to agree to disagree Joey. I commend you for trying to see the positive in people, but from my own perspective, it's just not logical or realistic.

[joeysteele]

We will have to agree to disagree Joey. I commend you for trying to see the positive in people, but from my own perspective, it's just not logical or realistic.

That is fine for you, for me however I look for the good until I have reason to look for any bad, and depending on the bad and its severity, that still may not be enough to sway me to judge anyone/people negatively if a lot of other good may be still evident too.

That is what I was brought up to do, that has been the example set for me by my family and it is something I am 100% glad I embrace too.
I also hope I always will no matter what personal trials I may face in life.

[Mystic Mock]

Did you watch the video Mock? These are not Syrian refugees fleeing from terror. If they were, they would be thankful to be in the first country that offered them safety. At that point they are safe from harm yet still at the closest point to any relatives they left behind and are still waiting on. Instead, once safe, they have gone through several countries, further away from their families. These are all people illegally trying to get in to the UK

Tbh no I haven't watched the video, but a lot of refugees or illegal immigrants will try to get to the UK because we're one of the most lenient countries around the world when it comes to immigration, I'm sure that a lot of them would like to go to a nearby country, but some of them are not necessarily easy to get into that are civilised.

[Kizzy]

Again... how many "safe" countries have this lot (all these able-bodied young men) been through in order to reach Calais so they can get here? And why? No one needs to answer, we all know the answer already.

, the migrants at Calais account for as little as 1% of those who have arrived in Europe so far this year. Estimates suggest that between 2,000-5,000 migrants have reached Calais, which is between 1% and 2.5% of the more than 200,000 who have landed in Italy and Greece.'

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/10/10-truths-about-europes-refugee-crisis

[Northern Monkey]

Refugees my arse.