'Multiple Victims' In California Mass Shooting (Confirmed as Terrorist)

[arista]

The fire department of San Bernardino, California, says it is responding to reports of a "20 victim shooting incident".

An active shooter was at the scene in the city about an hour inland east of Los Angeles, fire officials said.

"SBFD units responding to reports of 20 victim shooting incident in 1300 block of S. Waterman. SBPD is working to clear the scene," the city fire department said on Twitter.

http://news.sky.com/story/1598721/multiple-victims-in-california-mass-shooting

More killings in USA

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/02/19/2EFFB62A00000578-0-image-m-22_1449085544232.jpg

[Ramsay]

For fuuuu saaaake D:

[Shaun]

It's just kind of sad how events like this feel routine and very little will be said of the victims other than perhaps in the local community.

[Cherie]

It's just kind of sad how events like this feel routine and very little will be said of the victims other than perhaps in the local community.

Depends who has done it, 3 men in military gear attacking a learning disability centre doesn't sound like some crazed random with a grudge

[Crimson Dynamo]

good comment from the DM

""Its impossible to stop these kind of events happening".. says the only country in the world where these kind of events keep happening."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343309/At-TWENTY-people-gunned-California-mass-shooting-police-search-three-suspects.html#ixzz3tCCULPOk

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/02/19/2EFFB8EC00000578-3343309-image-a-32_1449086125732.jpg
Swat team Kill the Killers

[MB.]

Ffs America

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/12/2/433521/default/v1/cegrab-20151202-200423-159-1-736x414.jpg
Well done Medics

[Tom4784]

I'm guessing this is just another sad case of a few psychopaths getting their hands on guns. A situation that will keep happening ad infinitum.


It's a possibility

Most acts of terror that take place in America are done by people who identify as Christians.

[arista]

12 Shot Dead

[Livia]

I heard their bomb squad was dealing with an explosive device at the scene. Anyone else heard that?

[Cherie]

Yes it's in Aristas link

[Livia]

Ah right. Went with my own link. Thanks, Cherie.

[arista]

Police now say 14 are dead

[lewis111]

Obama's made a speech basically saying this kinda thing happens too often in America
Such a shame the damn Republicans won't let him do anything about it because of laws written hundreds of years ago LOOK AT THE FACTS LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED IN USA COMPARED TO UK O GERMANY OR WHATEVERB

[smudgie]

:bawling: This is just so sad.

[Ninastar]

So sad... RIP

[lostalex]

it's a center for mentally disabled people...i'm really struggling to figure out what the motive could be... were the attackers mentally disabled former patients or what??

how could anyone have an issue with and want to kill mentally retarded people??

[bots]

it's a center for mentally disabled people...i'm really struggling to figure out what the motive could be... were the attackers mentally disabled former patients or what??

how could anyone have an issue with and want to kill mentally retarded people??

i'm struggling with that too ... vulnerable people is the answer i think sadly

[Ninastar]

stuff going on now... apparent bomb threat and there are buildings being evacuated. not sure if this is related.

[arista]

Yes they are Terrorist
but the FBI just said Live he will not say that
just yet

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/02/22/2F0088CF00000578-3343309-An_FBI_official_who_also_spoke_at_the_news_confere nce_said_We_do-a-25_1449095149801.jpg

[Ninastar]

1 male shooter and 1 female shooter, both dead now apparently

[arista]

1 male shooter and 1 female shooter, both dead now apparently

Yes are they Extreme Muslims?


We need to find out

[bots]

Yes they are Terrorist
but the FBI just said Live he will not say that
just yet

but they may not be ISIS related, i don't think that's clear yet. Its so difficult to tell given the previous shooting events in the USA

[arista]

but they may not be ISIS related, i don't think that's clear yet. Its so difficult to tell given the previous shooting events in the USA


Yes it could be a Local Fight
But FBI on the case
means more.

Its the Washington Post
saying its Terrorist attack
using pipe bombs

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/02/23/2F001C7000000578-3343309-This_was_the_conversation_one_man_had_with_his_dau ghter_Holly_wh-a-25_1449100292422.jpg

[Ammi]

..there is nothing to suggest IS with this atm..?...

...just so awful and unimaginable that such vulnerable people would be a target of hate from anyone...

[lostalex]

they said it was a christmas party, but i don't know if it was a christmas party just for the staff, or for the disabled people they treat?

maybe it was a former employee just trying to kill the employees not the disabled people?

[bots]

If it was ISIS they have stooped to a new low of cowardice

[smudgie]

I am sure it said on the news this morning that he used to work there, something to do with social care.
He had been at the party, an argument broke out and he left, only to return and kill people, seems a bit weird that he went back with other shooters to assist him though. Perhaps he went in the first place to see what was what and who was there security wise.
Whatever reasons, it is just too awful.

[lostalex]

maybe he found out that the other staff were abusing the mentally retarded people, and he wanted to kill them to stop them.

[Niamh.]

That's horrific.

[arista]

'Devout' Muslim US citizen and his wife
are identified as heavily- armed suspects
who burst into his office holiday party
and killed at least 14 people

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343309/At-TWENTY-people-gunned-California-mass-shooting-police-search-three-suspects.html#ixzz3tGBTIR

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/12/3/433664/default/v1/cegrab-20151203-095601-139-1-736x414.jpg
http://news.sky.com/story/1598721/california-massacre-couple-named-14-dead

[Vicky.]

Really don't think this is IS tbh. yeah the guy seems to be Muslim, that does not mean it is ISIS. Just another nut with a gun.

[arista]

Really don't think this is IS tbh. yeah the guy seems to be Muslim, that does not mean it is ISIS. Just another nut with a gun.



With his wife by his side

[Cherie]

Just heard it was him and his wife who carried out the shootings, they dropped off their 6 month old baby daughter on route, it sounds more terrorist related in that respect

[Niamh.]

Just heard it was him and his wife who carried out the shootings, they dropped off their 6 month old baby daughter on route, it sounds more terrorist related in that respect

mmm No doubt ISIS will want to claim it as theirs even if it's not. Both are dead so can't say otherwise now

[arista]

Gun Restrictions would not have stopped this Evil Couple
they had home made pipe bombs


And that Evil Couple left their child with his mother before the Murders

"Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27, told Farook's mother they were going
to a doctor's appointment after leaving their child on Wednesday."

[arista]

[http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/04/09/article-3344350-2F0CF3D500000578-790_964x405.jpg
The Killer on the left, some who died in cold blood
his bag of pipe bombs


[Radicalized US Muslim was teased by colleagues about his Islamic beard and had clashed with Jewish co-worker over religion]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344350/Devout-Muslim-citizen-Saudi-wife-living-American-Dream-identified-heavily-armed-duo-burst-office-holiday-party-slaughtered-14-leaving-baby-mother.html#ixzz3tLiIKDzK

[Mystic Mock]

I feel sorry for the friends and family of the victims that these two killed.

I also feel sorry for innocent Muslims who are gonna get more abuse because the nutters in their Religion can't seem to keep the Bombs away from their hands for more than 2 seconds.

[Denver]

America make it so easy for them to access guns they need to make it illegal to carry a gun as the first step

[lostalex]

America make it so easy for them to access guns they need to make it illegal to carry a gun as the first step

we already made it illegal to kill people, so obviously this guy doesn't care about laws!

[Samm]

RIP to all the victims :(

it's terrifying to think what will happen that will eventually make gun laws more stricter, tbh all these shootings are making me not want to go to America.

[Northern Monkey]

we already made it illegal to kill people, so obviously this guy doesn't care about laws!

True.From what i've seen the people with an open carry licence are the sensible ones.

[Northern Monkey]

FOX NEWS:The gunmans wife had pledged allegiance to ISIS.

[arista]

FOX NEWS:The gunmans wife had pledged allegiance to ISIS.


Yes Evil Bitch Deleted
her Isis post on Facebook


Well done FBI
digging it all up.

[California Gunwoman 'Swore Allegiance To Isis]
http://news.sky.com/story/1600097/california-gunwoman-swore-allegiance-to-is

The Pakistan-born 27-year-old pledged loyalty to the extremist group's leader on Facebook under an alias.


Also debated on CNN USA

[arista]

Live FBI confirm the 2 were Terrorists

http://news.sky.com/story/1600193/california-attack-probed-as-act-of-terrorism

[lewis111]

obviously ANY attack like this is vile and awful, but a Christmas party at a place for mentally disabled people just takes it to a new low

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/05/00/article-3346861-2F117EAF00000578-894_964x395.jpg
first photo of the Evil Women Terrorist Tashfeen Malik, 27,

[kirklancaster]

Firstly, in defence of America and her gun laws - this is totally irrelevant in this case.

WE have strict Firearms laws which are rigorously enforced, but it DOES NOTHING to prevent those criminal elements (or indeed terrorist elements) from obtaining weapons, keeping or stockpiling weapons, and USING weapons.

It is unfair to shift ANY blame for this atrocity from the terrorist bastards onto the USA Government because this just mitigates the evil actions of this pair of twisted psycopaths and deflects from the real issues.

Does USA legislation permit PIPE BOMBS? NO.

Secondly, despite the argument that this terrorist bastard had with a work colleague - who had disagreed with him that Islam was a 'peaceful' religon - it is now crystal clear that this attack upon innocent lives and democracy, or some other target, had been planned well in advance and was NOT a direct result of that argument.

Further, this latest atrocity is yet further evidence of the link between immigration and 'fifth columnist Jihadists' - something I have been lambasted for in posts on here a long time ago.

I will stress here, that I did not say in my original posts that ALL immigrants were terrorists, just that SOME of them are - and I am not saying it here either.

Anyone anywhere who still does not accept this fact is standing in that river in Egypt - they are in De Nile.

[Kizzy]

Can two radicalised people represent a column in America?

[lostalex]

Can two radicalised people represent a column in America?

a column can be just one person. ISIS is world wide. they have columns on every continent, all part of the same larger structure. With the new information, there is NO DOUBT that these sick muslims were columns of the ISIS structure.

[Kizzy]

"At this point we believe they were more self-radicalised and inspired by the group than actually told to do the shooting,"

Lone wolves, people who were influenced but not instructed.

[lostalex]

"At this point we believe they were more self-radicalised and inspired by the group than actually told to do the shooting,"

Lone wolves, people who were influenced but not instructed.

hmm, well isis told them to get guns and bombs and kill as many "infidels" as possible... they've told every muslim that, so yes, that is being "instructed"...

[kirklancaster]

Can two radicalised people represent a column in America?


Fifh Column

A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an enemy's military aims.

As Alex says; one person can 'represent' a column in any Country.

I love the quaint terminology - "two radicalised people" instead of good 'ole murdering terrorist bastards though.

[kirklancaster]

hmm, well isis told them to get guns and bombs and kill as many "infidels" as possible... they've told every muslim that, so yes, that is being "instructed"...

Spot on again Alex.

ISIS extremists have but one goal - to kill all 'Kufrs' - and their actions to this end are mandated by their OWN beliefs, but actual 'mass killings' are dictated by their ISIS overlords.

[kirklancaster]

QUOTE=Merry Kizzmas;8333062]Then why hasn't every Muslim and Muslim immigrant in the western world done just that?...[/QUOTE]

Because, as I have said many times, NOT all Muslims and immigrants are ISLAMIC extremists - in fact the clear MAJORITY are not.

Indeed moderate Muslims who DO NOT interprete certain of the Qran's passages as 'orders to kill or rape or abduct and ransome' are regarded just as much Kufrs by ISIS and other extremist Islamic organisations, as non-Muslims are. Hence why these poor innocents are being beheaded and slaughtered by these evil scum.

[Kizzy]

Fifh Column

A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an enemy's military aims.

As Alex says; one person can 'represent' a column in any Country.

I love the quaint terminology - "two radicalised people" instead of good 'ole murdering terrorist bastards though.

Well there's no getting away from the fact they were acting as they thought they should or as ISIS would want.
I'm not convinced of the link between immigration and acts of terrorism though,
many terrorists are Muslim converts or home grown UK and US citizens.
I am aware you didn't say all, yet as proportional representation I don't think the figures for immigrant terrorists would support an accusation of columnists.

[Kizzy]

Because, as I have said many times, NOT all Muslims and immigrants are ISLAMIC extremists - in fact the clear MAJORITY are not.

Indeed moderate Muslims who DO NOT interprete certain of the Qran's passages as 'orders to kill or rape or abduct and ransome' are regarded just as much Kufrs by ISIS and other extremist Islamic organisations, as non-Muslims are. Hence why these poor innocents are being beheaded and slaughtered by these evil scum.

My reply was to Alex

[kirklancaster]

Well there's no getting away from the fact they were acting as they thought they should or as ISIS would want.
I'm not convinced of the link between immigration and acts of terrorism though,
many terrorists are Muslim converts or home grown UK and US citizens.
I am aware you didn't say all, yet as proportional representation I don't think the figures for immigrant terrorists would support an accusation of columnists.

If you want to ignore the many examples over the past 18 months or so, of the link between immigration and terrorism, including the fact that Tashfeen Malik - the female beast half of the terrorist duo who have just caused such evil carnage in California - is an IMMIGRANT to the USA, then you continue as you wish.

'Proportional Representation? We are talking about murdering terrorist bastards here NOT voters.

[kirklancaster]

My reply was to Alex

You're 'reply' was NOT addressed to ANYONE:

"Then why hasn't every Muslim and Muslim immigrant in the western world done just that?..."
__________________

And this is a forum is it not? Where comments - unsolicited or otherwise - are freely allowed.

Do you NOT comment even in responses to posts which were not directed or addressed to you?

[Kizzy]

If you want to ignore the many examples over the past 18 months or so, of the link between immigration and terrorism, including the fact that Tashfeen Malik - the female beast half of the terrorist duo who have just caused such evil carnage in California - is an IMMIGRANT to the USA, then you continue as you wish.

'Proportional Representation? We are talking about murdering terrorist bastards here NOT voters.

I'm saying your column theory is flawed, as the proportion of immigrants in the west that have committed acts of terrorism could not be considered an any way as a 'column'

[Kizzy]

hmm, well isis told them to get guns and bombs and kill as many "infidels" as possible... they've told every muslim that, so yes, that is being "instructed"...

Then why hasn't every Muslim and Muslim immigrant in the western world done just that?...

[Kizzy]

You're 'reply' was NOT addressed to ANYONE:

"Then why hasn't every Muslim and Muslim immigrant in the western world done just that?..."
__________________

And this is a forum is it not? Where comments - unsolicited or otherwise - are freely allowed.

Do you NOT comment even in responses to posts which were not directed or addressed to you?

Fixed.

[kirklancaster]

I'm saying your column theory is flawed, as the proportion of immigrants in the west that have committed acts of terrorism could not be considered an any way as a 'column'

I really will not be drawn into a meaningless argument Kizzy because once again YOU have 'moved the goalposts' and are misrepresenting, and circular arguing.

The only 'flaws' are in your responses.

Just because no Jihadists' in their hundreds or thousands have broken their 'cover' and 'exposed' themselves as Jihadists by commiting acts of atrocity, does not mean those Jihadists who HAVE exposed themselves are NOT part of a 'Fifth Column' and it certainly does not mean that there are not hundreds or even thousands more COVERT Jihadists in that 'Fifth Column'.

You believe what you want to but I will TELL you this; I have been criticised, lambasted and suffered aggressive responses on here for my posts BUT I HAVE BEEN PROVED CORRECT TIME AND AGAIN.

[kirklancaster]

Fixed.

Fixed is a good word. Apology is too.

[Kizzy]

I really will not be drawn into a meaningless argument Kizzy because once again YOU have 'moved the goalposts' and are misrepresenting, and circular arguing.

The only 'flaws' are in your responses.

Just because no Jihadists' in their hundreds or tousands have broken their 'cover' and 'exposed' themselves as Jihadists by commiting acts of atrocity, does not mean those Jihadists who HAVE exposed themselves are NOT part of a 'Fifth Column' and it certainly does not mean that there are not hundreds or even thousands more COVERT Jihadists in that 'Fifth Column'.

You believe what you want to but I will TELL you this; I have been criticised, lambasted and suffered aggressive responses on here for my posts BUT I HAVE BEEN PROVED CORRECT TIME AND AGAIN.

Nope, I have the same point to make now as I did, I just rephrased it for you.
Hang on you can criticise people for what they've done...but what they haven't done?
Then sorry that just smacks of pure paranoia.

[Kizzy]

Fixed is a good word. Apology is too.

You're welcome.

[Ninastar]

Can't believe it took so long for them to 'confirm' it was terrorism. Ridiculous

[lostalex]

Then why hasn't every Muslim and Muslim immigrant in the western world done just that?...

Most KKK members have never lynched a black person, so what's your point? It's about the hateful violent ideology.

[Johnnyuk123]

I really will not be drawn into a meaningless argument Kizzy because once again YOU have 'moved the goalposts' and are misrepresenting, and circular arguing.

The only 'flaws' are in your responses.

Just because no Jihadists' in their hundreds or tousands have broken their 'cover' and 'exposed' themselves as Jihadists by commiting acts of atrocity, does not mean those Jihadists who HAVE exposed themselves are NOT part of a 'Fifth Column' and it certainly does not mean that there are not hundreds or even thousands more COVERT Jihadists in that 'Fifth Column'.

You believe what you want to but I will TELL you this; I have been criticised, lambasted and suffered aggressive responses on here for my posts BUT I HAVE BEEN PROVED CORRECT TIME AND AGAIN.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[bots]

Nope, I have the same point to make now as I did, I just rephrased it for you.
Hang on you can criticise people for what they've done...but what they haven't done?
Then sorry that just smacks of pure paranoia.

Kizzy, it is well known there are jihadists around that haven't taken any action yet that's what the process of indoctrination produces, and its been shown time and time again that people are being radicalised within the family too.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm always highly suspicious of conspiracies but when I saw all those reporters rifling through evidence, it immediately rang some alarm bells. The police hadn't cordoned off the building and left behind loads of evidence, including a quaran and ID cards for the press to photograph. The press officers were saying they'd never known anything like it. It also turns out that the building where the shooting took place was regularly being used for terrorist shooter drills. Witnesses initially said that 3 armed white men dressed in military uniform were shooting randomly at people.

The gun lobbyists are suggesting this was a government staged event and although I'd hate to think this was the case, there's something not right about this whole thing.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy, it is well known there are jihadists around that haven't taken any action yet that's what the process of indoctrination produces, and its been shown time and time again that people are being radicalised within the family too.

Bots, like Alex said there are KKK members and other terrorist group sympathisers that silently sit there with their ignorance festering away, the percentage that actually act on their prejudice is rare.
Could we class the rise of far right groups a 5th column of the KKK?

'The “counter-jihad” movement in the UK is expanding rapidly, according to new analysis showing that 24 different far-right groups are currently attempting to whip up hatred towards Muslims and provoke a cultural civil war.

The most comprehensive report yet into the alliance of international counter-jihad organisations warns that Islamophobic groups in Britain are capitalising on public concerns following the Paris attacks and ongoing refugee crisis.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/05/far-right-muslim-cultural-civil-war

[bots]

Bots, like Alex said there are KKK members and other terrorist group sympathisers that silently sit there with their ignorance festering away, the percentage that actually act on their prejudice is rare.
Could we class the rise of far right groups a 5th column of the KKK?

'The “counter-jihad” movement in the UK is expanding rapidly, according to new analysis showing that 24 different far-right groups are currently attempting to whip up hatred towards Muslims and provoke a cultural civil war.

The most comprehensive report yet into the alliance of international counter-jihad organisations warns that Islamophobic groups in Britain are capitalising on public concerns following the Paris attacks and ongoing refugee crisis.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/05/far-right-muslim-cultural-civil-war

Don't get me wrong. I think everyone should support and encourage any movement particularly within the muslim community that speaks and acts against extremism.

In the run up to the vote and indeed after, we have seen extremist voices latch on to the main stream for and against positions to further their own agendas. It needs to be stopped

[kirklancaster]

I'm always highly suspicious of conspiracies but when I saw all those reporters rifling through evidence, it immediately rang some alarm bells. The police hadn't cordoned off the building and left behind loads of evidence, including a quaran and ID cards for the press to photograph. The press officers were saying they'd never known anything like it. It also turns out that the building where the shooting took place was regularly being used for terrorist shooter drills. Witnesses initially said that 3 armed white men dressed in military uniform were shooting randomly at people.

The gun lobbyists are suggesting this was a government staged event and although I'd hate to think this was the case, there's something not right about this whole thing.

:shrug: Just WHAT is NOT RIGHT Red?

You are not SERIOUSLY implying that these two Islamic Terrorist bastards were innocent and that the US Government 'planted' all the internet evidence and 'contact' with terrorist groups' well in advance, then had all these innocent civilians killed just to show Jihadist killers in a 'bad light'?

What did they do to Mr and Mrs El Fukco - Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and his wife Tashfeen Malik? Abduct them at gunpoint, dress them up in combat gear and superglue assault rifles to their hands, then drive them to the scene of crime whilst others planted pipe bombs and ammo and other incriminating evidence at their home?

Then perhaps the US Government paid ISIS millions of dollars to claim these two barbarians as their own ?

Something NOT RIGHT - what a load of crap. :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

You're welcome.

You're not.

[Kizzy]

:shrug: Just WHAT is NOT RIGHT Red?

You are not SERIOUSLY implying that these two Islamic Terrorist bastards were innocent and that the US Government 'planted' all the internet evidence and 'contact' with terrorist groups' well in advance, then had all these innocent civilians killed just to show Jihadist killers in a 'bad light'?

What did they do to Mr and Mrs El Fukco - Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and his wife Tashfeen Malik? Abduct them at gunpoint, dress them up in combat gear and superglue assault rifles to their hands, then drive them to the scene of crime whilst others planted pipe bombs and ammo and other incriminating evidence at their home?

Then perhaps the US Government paid ISIS millions of dollars to claim these two barbarians as their own ?

Something NOT RIGHT - what a load of crap. :shrug:

It is just a theory, like your 5th columnist one, that sounds just as bizarre in all fairness.

[kirklancaster]

It is just a theory, like your 5th columnist one, that sounds just as bizarre in all fairness.

It is NOT a theory - it is an anti-Western anti-Democratic FANTASY. - and only to the self-blind is the well documented FACT of Fifth Columnists bizarre.

[DemolitionRed]

You are not SERIOUSLY implying that these two Islamic Terrorist bastards were innocent

No, that for me is going too far, though I know a lot of Americans are implying just that.

and that the US Government 'planted' all the internet evidence and 'contact' with terrorist groups' well in advance

That wouldn't surprise me. Why let journalists into a crime scene when there is still so much evidence sitting around? Crime scenes like this are screened off for weeks and every ounce of tangible evidence is removed and documented. Security forces are now saying that the press barged their way in. My partner is a press officer and his reaction was 'wtf?...no way would this ever be allowed'

The rest of your post is an over reaction as per usual. What I'm saying is, there is something that appears to be odd about this and a lot of people are talking about it.

Something NOT RIGHT - what a load of crap. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Well I am within my right to believe something isn't right and you're within your right to believe that's a load of crap. :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

You are not SERIOUSLY implying that these two Islamic Terrorist bastards were innocent

No, that for me is going too far, though I know a lot of Americans are implying just that.

and that the US Government 'planted' all the internet evidence and 'contact' with terrorist groups' well in advance

That wouldn't surprise me. Why let journalists into a crime scene when there is still so much evidence sitting around? Crime scenes like this are screened off for weeks and every ounce of tangible evidence is removed and documented. Security forces are now saying that the press barged their way in. My partner is a press officer and his reaction was 'wtf?...no way would this ever be allowed'

The rest of your post is an over reaction as per usual. What I'm saying is, there is something that appears to be odd about this and a lot of people are talking about it.

Something NOT RIGHT - what a load of crap. :shrug:

Well I am within my right to believe something isn't right and you're within your right to believe that's a load of crap. :laugh:[/QUOTE]

:laugh: Oh I'm NOT falling out with you Red or trying to. We are - usually - on opposite sides, but I respect you, and you are correct -- You have a right to believe something isn't right and I have one to believe sometings a load of crap. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

It is NOT a theory - it is an anti-Western anti-Democratic FANTASY. - and only to the self-blind is the well documented FACT of Fifth Columnists bizarre.

Is the springing up of far right groups across Europe a 5th column of fascist Nazis?
They're anti democratic too, isn't that an example of self blindness?

[user104658]

Ffs DR and Kirk how have you managed to screw up the quoting system again? Now the thread is all but unreadable. It's a Nazi 5th column conspiracy.

[kirklancaster]

Ffs DR and Kirk how have you managed to screw up the quoting system again? Now the thread is all but unreadable. It's a Nazi 5th column conspiracy.

:laugh: It's all Red's fault T.S - I'm Not guilty.

[kirklancaster]

Is the springing up of far right groups across Europe a 5th column of fascist Nazis?
They're anti democratic too, isn't that an example of self blindness?

This is irrelevant to my post, but I DO NOT deny the increase in 'Far Right' groups in Europe, but it is all down to a knee-jerk reaction to the ISIS atrocities by misguided anxious people, and opportunity seizing by nutjob extreme Right Wing factions who are playing on those ISIS atrocities AND the public knee-jerk reactions.

I despise the far right as much as I despise the far left, and NEARLY as much as I detest ISIS.

As for the section of your post which I have emboldened, I do not think that you really understand what a 'Fifth Column' is.

[Kizzy]

This is irrelevant to my post, but I DO NOT deny the increase in 'Far Right' groups in Europe, but it is all down to a knee-jerk reaction to the ISIS atrocities by misguided anxious people, and opportunity seizing by nutjob extreme Right Wing factions who are playing on those ISIS atrocities AND the public knee-jerk reactions.

I despise the far right as much as I despise the far left, and NEARLY as much as I detest ISIS.

As for the section of your post which I have emboldened, I do not think that you really understand what a 'Fifth Column' is.

Sigh something else I don't understand? I wonder sometimes how I manage to tie my shoes.

[smudgie]

I don't doubt for one second the guilt of the couple who committed these terrible murders, but I must admit I thought it all rather odd that the press were allowed all over the house.
I wondered if it was to bring home the fact that to the outside this couple were just an ordinary couple going about there life, and people need to be on their guard.:shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Sigh something else I don't understand? I wonder sometimes how I manage to tie my shoes.

I wonder how you do too. Can this be yet another example of synchronicity?

[lostalex]

Some people just need to blame the US for everything horrible in the world. It's always a nice feeling to blame others for the troubles in the world.

[Alf]

USA won't be able to defend themselves until their ruler is out, Obama (Mussolini Wannabee) is an enemy to the West.

[lostalex]

USA won't be able to defend themselves until their ruler is out, Obama (Mussolini Wannabee) is an enemy to the West. but the worst terrorist attack happened under the republicans (cheney and bush)...

[arista]

On the day of that attack the two terrorists
sent over 110 messages encrypted to the Middle East
The FBI leader has said need more accesses
but of course the President is like a Snail until he resigns
soon.


Ref: Forbes on Fox Live

[DemolitionRed]

On the day of that attack the two terrorists
sent over 110 messages encrypted to the Middle East
The FBI leader has said need more accesses
but of course the President is like a Snail until he resigns
soon.


Ref: Forbes on Fox Live

What good is the discovery of encryption after the event when actual prior knowledge of the suspects identities and backgrounds and years of ongoing surveillance did not result in the prevention of that shooting?

Unlike us Brits who agreed we should have unfettered surveillance, it seems like most of the US are calling bullsiht on this one.

[JoshBB]

Some people just need to blame the US for everything horrible in the world. It's always a nice feeling to blame others for the troubles in the world.

Don't you find it a bit sadistic and actually counter-productive to blame others and find enjoyment out of it, when you could actually find a solution to an issue rather than hide behind the "america can do no harm!!" shield?

USA won't be able to defend themselves until their ruler is out, Obama (Mussolini Wannabee) is an enemy to the West.

The republicans exist and yet Obama is the one being compared to Mussolini.. okay..

[lostalex]

Don't you find it a bit sadistic and actually counter-productive to blame others and find enjoyment out of it, when you could actually find a solution to an issue rather than hide behind the "america can do no harm!!" shield?



what are you talking about? who is hiding behind an "america can do no harm" shield? trump criticizes America and the US government just as much as he criticized mexicans and muslims.