USA : Police escape charges over fatal shooting of boy holding toy gun

[arista]

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-12-29/police-escape-charges-over-fatal-shooting-of-boy-holding-toy-gun/


This was back in Nov.

and many say Toy Guns
must be kept in Home with kids

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/11/26/352500/default/v3/cleveland-1-736x414.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1613520/cleveland-cops-cleared-in-tamir-rice-shooting

[Ninastar]

Why on earth would you point a fake gun at the police? That's just beyond ****ing stupid. I'm guessing this has only been reported though because it's a white officer? I haven't checked.

[Shaun]

Trying to place an adult sense of logic and rationality onto a child holding a toy gun is a little bit difficult, though.

[Ninastar]

Trying to place an adult sense of logic and rationality onto a child holding a toy gun is a little bit difficult, though.

12 is old enough to have enough common sense to not hold up a fake gun at police, despite being asked 3 times to put the gun down :shrug:

[GiRTh]

This was in an open carry state where if he was a hairy arsed 30 years old with a real gun and a permit he could openly carry that gun around the town and the police would not have even been able to arrest him never mind shoot him. The police drove up to him and shot him within two seconds of arriving,. How did he have even enough time to point the fake gun never mind use it.?

[Tom4784]

The problem with US police officers like the one that murdered this boy is that they consider their guns their first resort and not their last. I guess that's what happens when you don't weed out the trigger happy psychos before you give them a badge and a gun.

It always saddens me when people blame the victims of police brutality, a child was killed because this officer didn't follow procedure and most likely acted out of prejudice. Like Girth said, I think this situation would have had a different outcome if it wasn't a black child that was reported.

[GiRTh]

xIvQVU_pmBg


****Warning*****

Heres the vid. The shooting occurs less than a minute in. It doesn't seem like there were any instructions given, they simply rolled up and shot him.

[arista]

The problem with US police officers like the one that murdered this boy is that they consider their guns their first resort and not their last. I guess that's what happens when you don't weed out the trigger happy psychos before you give them a badge and a gun.

It always saddens me when people blame the victims of police brutality, a child was killed because this officer didn't follow procedure and most likely acted out of prejudice. Like Girth said, I think this situation would have had a different outcome if it wasn't a black child that was reported.

Dezzy I have been and Worked in America
Guns are normal, Its there way of Life.
One smart Looking fella had one under
his suit jacket
he said to me - you never know when you need it.
That was in NYC.


America is not changing for you
its a New Nation like Australia.
we the British Empire
used to Run America
we had better controls.
Of course at "that" time
Blacks were slaves,

But America was Ours.

Feel The Force

[kirklancaster]

This is a very sad day for the American Justice system, and it is a decision which does nothing to repair the severe distrust which Black Americans - rightfully - have for the forces of Law and Order, and one which will have grave repercussions in years to come.

In an age where the increasing phenomenon; 'Death By Cop', is recognised by all US Police Authorities, ALL professional policemen are thoroughly trained to 'Shoot To Stop' or 'Shoot To Wound' in order to disarm or incapacitate, and there can be NO excuses, no reasons, to 'Shoot To Kill' when the 'perpetrator' is a 12 year old child, especially one who - toy gun or not - did not actually attempt to shoot the 'weapon' he was holding.

Whether the actual time which had elapsed from the time the police arrived on scene to when they started shooting at this child, was 10 seconds, 20 seconds, or a minute is irrelevant to the facts that:

1) They immediately opted to 'Shoot To Kill' - not to 'Disarm' or to 'Incapacitate'.
2) The 'armed' child did NOT opt to shoot at the police. (Not that he could).

The above two facts are all that are REALLY relevant in this case.

Any mitigating arguments, that it was dark, and that the police did not know the weapon was a toy, have no substance when the child was CLEARLY dentifiable as a child, and that the child CLEARLY did not attempt to fire his 'weapon' at the police first, and when PATENTLY, no other measures but 'Shoot To Kill' were employed by the police.

[bots]

while i'm not condoning the needless killing of someone innocent, the situation needs to be put into context.

It is not unusual for 12 year olds in the USA to carry guns and for them to shoot and kill someone. Its not comparable to here in any shape or form, so we can't use our own circumstances as a reference point.

When a US policeman shoots, he can have literally milli-seconds to make a decision or he/she may be the one killed. In those circumstances mistakes will happen regularly. Even if there was premeditated intent by the police to shoot to kill, the law will always favour the police, because to do otherwise would tie their hands and lead to a totally lawless situation.

Is it right that a young boy gets shot? absolutely not, but the USA have created that environment with their own laws. Everyone who lives there knows the score however young or old they may be.

[Kizzy]

while i'm not condoning the needless killing of someone innocent, the situation needs to be put into context.

It is not unusual for 12 year olds in the USA to carry guns and for them to shoot and kill someone. Its not comparable to here in any shape or form, so we can't use our own circumstances as a reference point.

When a US policeman shoots, he can have literally milli-seconds to make a decision or he/she may be the one killed. In those circumstances mistakes will happen regularly. Even if there was premeditated intent by the police to shoot to kill, the law will always favour the police, because to do otherwise would tie their hands and lead to a totally lawless situation.

Is it right that a young boy gets shot? absolutely not, but the USA have created that environment with their own laws. Everyone who lives there knows the score however young or old they may be.

Where is the evidence?
The police escaped charges, who are held accountable for their actions, nobody could or should get preferential treatment.

[bots]

Where is the evidence?
The police escaped charges, who are held accountable for their actions, nobody could or should get preferential treatment.

I won't be doing your research for you. I've said this many times. Take a look at the death rates for under 16's in the USA, their demographic and their cause. Its not difficult to find the evidence.

[Kizzy]

My research? They are your unsubstantiated claims... If I had to personally verify everyone of those on here it would get mightily boring very fast.
Not sure how death rates prove your position on this either, you don't have to use a gun to be killed by one.

[Northern Monkey]

Its hard to tell from that vid whether the kid still had it in his hand when they dropped him.I know that if i was in America with a replica gun and the cops rolled up I would drop it and put my hands where they could see them straight away.

[Livia]

Why on earth would you point a fake gun at the police? That's just beyond ****ing stupid.

I have nothing to add to this.

[bots]

My research? They are your unsubstantiated claims... If I had to personally verify everyone of those on here it would get mightily boring very fast.
Not sure how death rates prove your position on this either, you don't have to use a gun to be killed by one.

Under 16 gun deaths is an issue in the USA. Its amusing that I can add value to a debate with knowledge and it is considered unsubstantiated, yet, you who refuse to even research the subject can freely condemn it.

Its hard to tell from that vid whether the kid still had it in his hand when they dropped him.I know that if i was in America with a replica gun and the cops rolled up I would drop it and put my hands where they could see them straight away.

Exactly, because they all know what the environment is.

[GiRTh]

There is no evidence that he pointed the gun at the cop. Given the time frame of the vid it doesn't seem possible that the exchange the cops claim took place actually took place.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Great news

[GiRTh]

7rifzISiAy8

[Ninastar]

yfi3Ndh3n-g

[arista]

There is no evidence that he pointed the gun at the cop. Given the time frame of the vid it doesn't seem possible that the exchange the cops claim took place actually took place.



The point is
Do not let you kid out the Front with a Gun.

Now Those Cops are Cleared
the case is over.

[GiRTh]

I find the attitude to this case quite disturbing. Regarding this case, It has been asked on many occasions, why did the officers not park their car a reasonable distance from the boy - they could park up to 100 yards away - and issue him an instruction to drop the gun and get on the ground from inside their squad car. The officers have not said why they didn't do that but have admitted they did not do that, so for all intents and purposes they drove straight up and shot him. I find the attitude of people, in a case where a real alternative has been put forward, to still say the officers "had no choice" to be rather disturbing.

If they had no choice its cuz they drove up far too close and gave themselves no choice.

Still nothing will come of this but I wouldn't rule out some civil unrest due to this decision..

[arista]

I find the attitude to this case quite disturbing. Regarding this case, It has been asked on many occasions why did the officers not park their car a reasonable distance from the boy - they could park up to 100 yards away - and issue him an instruction to drop the gun and get on the ground. The officers have not said why they didn't do that but have admitted they did not do that, so for all intents and purposes they drove straight up and shot him. I find the attitude of people in a case where a real alternative has been put forward to still say the officers "had no choice" to be rather disturbing.

If they had no choice its cuz they drove up far too close and gave themselves no choice.

Still nothing will come of this but I wouldn't rule out some civil unrest due to this decision..


Yes if only we had a Time Machine, Girth.

Now these Officers were Cleared.


-----------------------------------------


Can you Halt this Illegal Text Speak "Cuz"
is because.

are you typing on a Phone?

[GiRTh]

Yes if only we had a Time Machine, Girth.

Now these Officers were Cleared.


-----------------------------------------


Can you Halt this Illegal Text Speak "Cuz"
is because.

are you typing on a Phone?Not sure why you think that's relevant. Surely the officer should have considered every option before they drove up and shot him within two seconds of arriving on the scene. Doesnt look like much thought was put into that decision to drive straight up and shoot him in less than two seconds. Of course they could have sat 50 yards away and called for backup if they were so scared. They didnt really hesitate to get the guns out and start shooting.

[erinp5]

Seems Cleveland police are trigger happy.Here are 62 police cars chasing one car for speeding, they then shot 137 times into the car killing two unarmed citizens.

l_aAyQVffLc

[GiRTh]

Seems Cleveland police are trigger happy.Here are 62 police cars chasing one car for speeding, they then shot 137 times into the car killing two unarmed citizens.

l_aAyQVffLc:clap1:

Its the culture of modern day cops in USA to use overwhelming force even if not needed..

Very disturbing that both officers had previous citations for excessive force. The Officer who actually killed Tamir had been described as 'immature' by superior officers and had been deemed 'unfit for duty' by another police force .

[arista]

Not sure why you think that's relevant. Surely the officer should have considered every option before they drove up and shot him within two seconds of arriving on the scene. Doesnt look like much thought was put into that decision to drive straight up and shoot him in less than two seconds. Of course they could have sat 50 yards away and called for backup if they were so scared. They didnt really hesitate to get the guns out and start shooting.


You were Not With those Officers

They were both Cleared

[GiRTh]

You were Not With those Officers

They were both ClearedThey were and I have said in this thread that nothing will be done. :shrug:

[arista]

They were and I have said in this thread that nothing will be done. :shrug:


yes it could even happen again.



So All Mums in USA
Never let you child out with a gun of any kind

[GiRTh]

yes it could even happen again.



So All Mums in USA
Never let you child out with a gun of any kindWatch the vid Erin posted. The officer who actually pulled the trigger was deemed unfit by another police department. This quote from one of his superiors is pretty devastating I do not believe time or training will be able to correct these deficiencies.

So he was deemed useless by another police department, yet less than two years later he shoots a 12 year old. Seems some people saw this coming.

[arista]

"yet less than two years later he shoots a 12 year old. "


Yes Holding a Gun

Thats the point the Toy Gun.
did it have pink tip?

[GiRTh]

"yet less than two years later he shoots a 12 year old. "


Yes Holding a Gun

Thats the point the Toy Gun.
did it have pink tip?WTF?

The gun was fake, the cops were incompetent, the police account is not believable, the time frame was not sufficient for a surrender and you still cant get off the fact that the gun didnt have a sticker. One way or another you are gonna blame the victim. :facepalm:

[arista]

WTF?

The gun was fake, the cops were incompetent, the police account is not believable, the time frame was not sufficient for a surrender and you still cant get off the fact that the gun didnt have a sticker. One way or another you are gonna blame the victim. :facepalm:

Not Believable - To You
The Judge Cleared them


Yes but that Toy Gun Looked Real WTF

all toy guns needs pink tip

[Tom4784]

You can't look at that footage and say with a straight face that the police were justified in their actions. It was almost a ****ing driveby.

[arista]

You can't look at that footage and say with a straight face that the police were justified in their actions. It was almost a ****ing driveby.


No


But it was a Toy Gun that looked real.


No pink Tip

[GiRTh]

Not Believable - To You
The Judge Cleared them


Yes but that Toy Gun Looked Real WTF

all toy guns needs pink tip

So after seeing the vid do you think its believable that the police issued an instruction to drop the gun three times in approximately 1.8 seconds? Its ridiculous TBH To anyone, not just me. Even if they did they hardly gave him enough time to actually drop it.

But forget all that, the fake guns sticker had been removed, so it must be the victims fault.

[Tom4784]

No


But it was a Toy Gun that looked real.


No pink Tip

They literally drove up and shot him in under three seconds without clarifying the situation or paying attention to the information they already had (The original complaint mentioned that they were pretty sure it was a toy gun).

The fact there isn't a pink tip doesn't matter when the police are basically comitting gangland styled shootings.

[arista]

No I am not watching Conspiracy Angles
you have.

All I know is the Cops are Cleared
its Tragic

[arista]

They literally drove up and shot him in under three seconds without clarifying the situation or paying attention to the information they already had (The original complaint mentioned that they were pretty sure it was a toy gun).

The fact there isn't a pink tip doesn't matter when the police are basically comitting gangland styled shootings.

Yes Rough Part Of Town, Dezzy
these cops get murdered
so they need to be ready

[GiRTh]

Cleveland officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty in 2012


Timothy Loehmann criticised by small Ohio force for breaking down while handling live gun and his performance was called ‘dismal’, records show

A police officer who shot a 12-year-old dead in a Cleveland park late last month had been judged unfit for police service two years earlier by a small suburban force where he worked for six months, according to records released on Wednesday.

Officer Timothy Loehmann, who killed Tamir Rice on 22 November, was specifically faulted for breaking down emotionally while handling a live gun. During a training episode at a firing range, Loehmann was reported to be “distracted and weepy” and incommunicative. “His handgun performance was dismal,” deputy chief Jim Polak of the Independence, Ohio, police department wrote in an internal memo.

The memo concludes with a recommendation that Loehmann be “released from the employment of the City of Independence”. Less than a week later, on 3 December 2012, Loehmann resigned.
The stories you need to read, in one handy email
Read more

In March of this year, Loehmann was hired by the Cleveland police department. It is unclear whether the department had seen the Independence memo at the time of Loehmann’s hiring.

“I have not received any instruction about it, and I have not received the file” from Independence, said Sgt Ali Pillow, a Cleveland police spokesman. He said the Cleveland department had not commented on whether it had seen the memo from Independence before Loehmann was hired.

On a Saturday afternoon last month, Loehmann and a partner, Frank Garmack, were dispatched to Cleveland’s Cudell Commons Park after a 911 caller reported “a guy” in the park was pointing a “probably fake” gun at people. Surveillance video recovered after the incident showed Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old, handling a pistol-sized pellet gun.

Loehmann shot the boy dead within two seconds of a police car driven by Garmack arriving to the park and pulling to a stop within feet of the child. In the video, released by Cleveland police a week ago, Loehmann appears to fire his gun as he opens the door to leave the police car.

Loehmann has been taken off patrol duties in Cleveland and the shooting is under internal review.

The Independence police memo describes an episode in which a supervising officer suspended gun training with Loehmann after Loehmann had an emotional breakdown about a girlfriend.

“During a state range qualification course, Ptl Loehmann was distracted and weepy,” Polak wrote, naming the trainer as Sgt Tinnirello. “[Loehmann] could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal. Sgt Tinnirello tried to work through this with Ptl Loehmann by giving him some time. But, after some talking it was clear to Sgt Tinnirello that the recruit was just not mentally prepared to be doing firearm training ...

“Ptl Loehmann continued with his emotional meltdown to a point where Sgt Tinnirello could not take him into the store, so they went to get something to eat and he continued to try and calm Ptl Loehmann. Sgt Tinnirello describes the recruit as being very downtrodden, melancholy with some light crying. Sgt Tinnirello later found this emotional perplexity was due to a personal issue with Ptl Loehmann’s on and off again girlfriend whom he was dealing with till 0400 hrs the night before. (Pti Loehmann was scheduled for 0800 the morning in question).”

Some of the comments made by Ptl Loehmann during this discourse were to the effect of, “I should have gone to NY”, “maybe I should quit”, “I have no friends”, “I only hang out with 73-year-old priests”, “I have cried every day for four months about this girl.”

In recommending Loehmann’s dismissal, Polak listed what he said were other performance shortcomings, including Loehmann’s having left his gun unlocked, lied to supervisors and failed to follow orders.

“Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”


LINK (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/officer-who-fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit)

So when he was let go by his first police department he just applied to join a different one who somehow didn't see he was incompetent. But forget all that the gun didnt have a sticker so it must be the victims fault.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Why on earth would you point a fake gun at the police? That's just beyond ****ing stupid. I'm guessing this has only been reported though because it's a white officer? I haven't checked.

Hm maybe to show the mother****ers it was a toy gun? Either bloody way, he was 12. How the heck do mass murderers come out of situations like these alive and a 12yr old with a fake gun was not even given a chance. The argument "he didn't look 12" unbelievably was brought into the argument like it matters!!

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

http://i.imgur.com/cDoberD.jpg


This is how Tamir should have looked (member of BAIR -anti Islam group, following random Muslim girl), complete with a confederate flag so that people wouldn't have lost their sh8t about a black boy holding possibly a "probably fake" gun

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

http://i.imgur.com/HjiGwie.png

[Samm]

Ugh should of at least got a manslaughter charge or whatever they call it over there.

RIP to the poor little boy :(

[Ammi]

...3 seconds is all it took to shoot him dead..they had a report that someone had a gun, possibly a fake gun ...but they couldn't assume that it was, I get that and the danger to their lives so they pulled their car right up in front of him and shot him..they didn't park away, so that they could assess the situation first, whether it was indeed a fake gun..they put themselves in more danger by pulling up right in front of him, that was their choice, the choice of 'trained officers'...why did they not pull up a distance away and try talking to him...the intention before they even got there seemed to be that they would shoot him dead and pulled up close for that 'death shot'....


..I totally get the dangers to police officers but with the gun laws etc...if they can't assess a situation, which they should be trained to do... then what sets them apart from the people that they are meant to protect from...without that, surely they're just 'punks' in uniforms themselves...

[arista]

"3 seconds is all it took to shoot him dead..they had a report that someone had a gun,"

Yes why did that mother let her son out the Front
with a Toy Gun?


Thats the lesson here.


Now those Officers were Cleared.

[GiRTh]

"3 seconds is all it took to shoot him dead..they had a report that someone had a gun,"

Yes why did that mother let her son out the Front
with a Toy Gun?


Thats the lesson here.


Now those Officers were Cleared.
Whatever happens always blame the victim and his family.

[Denver]

The officers should be fatally shot

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

...3 seconds is all it took to shoot him dead..they had a report that someone had a gun, possibly a fake gun ...but they couldn't assume that it was, I get that and the danger to their lives so they pulled their car right up in front of him and shot him..they didn't park away, so that they could assess the situation first, whether it was indeed a fake gun..they put themselves in more danger by pulling up right in front of him, that was their choice, the choice of 'trained officers'...why did they not pull up a distance away and try talking to him...the intention before they even got there seemed to be that they would shoot him dead and pulled up close for that 'death shot'....


..I totally get the dangers to police officers but with the gun laws etc...if they can't assess a situation, which they should be trained to do... then what sets them apart from the people that they are meant to protect from...without that, surely they're just 'punks' in uniforms themselves...

Tell-it!

[GiRTh]

FneVxGLF1zU

[user104658]

Yes why did that mother let her son out the Front
with a Toy Gun?

How do you know she did? How do you know that she knew he had it? Are parents supposed to circle their kids (almost teenagers) and keep them on a tight leash at all times? Should we have to worry that they'll be shot by the people who are supposed to be protecting people?

This boy did a stupid thing but... he was 12. A 12 year old boy. 12 year old boys feel invincible and do stupid, reckless things that sometimes get them hurt... whether that's playing chicken or climbing around high-voltage wires or any number of potentially dangerous things. One of those risks should NOT be armed men rolling up in a car and opening fire when they could easily - EASILY - have been much more careful and resolved the misunderstanding from a distance.

This is, at best, an indication that these officers are poorly trained and a complete revision of their methods needs to be in place. There are only two options here. Either these guys were following procedure when this occurred in which case, their procedures are woefully lacking and the entire department needs deconstructing brick by brick and put back together properly... or, they were NOT following procedure, in which case they are guilty as sin of causing the unnecessary death of a child.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

"3 seconds is all it took to shoot him dead..they had a report that someone had a gun,"

Yes why did that mother let her son out the Front
with a Toy Gun?


Thats the lesson here.


Now those Officers were Cleared.

Nope! The lesson is question first, shoot later if shooting is needed at all! They ****ed up yet again and nobody is paying for it but the poor boy's family. And aren't you the one supporting Kurt Russell saying he owns a gun and isn't afraid to shoot it? One rule applies to some but not others? If that is your true belief than your statement should not be "why did a mother let out her son with a toy gun" otherwise Kurt Russell should also be shot if he's seen out with his gun. Since them Hollywood dudes like to get drunk it could happen that he's drunk waving his gun about.

[GiRTh]

3LMaXQC9qtEThis meathead basically threatens anyone who disagree with police tactics.

[kirklancaster]

How do you know she did? How do you know that she knew he had it? Are parents supposed to circle their kids (almost teenagers) and keep them on a tight leash at all times? Should we have to worry that they'll be shot by the people who are supposed to be protecting people?

This boy did a stupid thing but... he was 12. A 12 year old boy. 12 year old boys feel invincible and do stupid, reckless things that sometimes get them hurt... whether that's playing chicken or climbing around high-voltage wires or any number of potentially dangerous things. One of those risks should NOT be armed men rolling up in a car and opening fire when they could easily - EASILY - have been much more careful and resolved the misunderstanding from a distance.

This is, at best, an indication that these officers are poorly trained and a complete revision of their methods needs to be in place. There are only two options here. Either these guys were following procedure when this occurred in which case, their procedures are woefully lacking and the entire department needs deconstructing brick by brick and put back together properly... or, they were NOT following procedure, in which case they are guilty as sin of causing the unnecessary death of a child.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

gapvCZ2ofJ4

[arista]

Nope! The lesson is question first, shoot later if shooting is needed at all! They ****ed up yet again and nobody is paying for it but the poor boy's family. And aren't you the one supporting Kurt Russell saying he owns a gun and isn't afraid to shoot it? One rule applies to some but not others? If that is your true belief than your statement should not be "why did a mother let out her son with a toy gun" otherwise Kurt Russell should also be shot if he's seen out with his gun. Since them Hollywood dudes like to get drunk it could happen that he's drunk waving his gun about.



No this is America
Are you aware that Police get Assassinated
(Ref NYC)

If you start killing cops
I would shoot first

As I would Wish To Stay Alive



Now
those 2 Cops were cleared of this.

And they are still Alive.,

[arista]

"Are parents supposed to circle their kids" TS said


Look its very simple
that young lad had removed the Pink tip
I guess as a kid I would as well.

The lesson is you child must no longer go out the Front
unless he has - No Toy Guns with Pink tip removed

Its That Simple TS

[Ammi]

..it's not that simple though..in saying that it's that simple is only looking at Tamir and his actions on that day and not the actions of the police officers...should he have gone out with a toy gun that looked like a real one, should he have waved it around and pointed it toward people etc...well no, of course not, a pretty dumb thing, eh..but he did, didn't he because he was a 12yr old boy and 12yr old boys can do dumb things...


..in an open gun state, it's for police officers/trained police officers to be able to distinguish the 'dumb' though, to be able to assess danger and to be able to attempt to protect themselves from it to try to uphold the law so that no one gets killed..they chose to not park a distance away from him, take cover etc and try to talk to him and in doing so would have realised his age...I mean, he had a gun but he hadn't fired it, if it was a real gun then he'd had the opportunity to hurt people with it but he hadn't, so maybe didn't intend to even if their thoughts were that the gun was real...but no talking..?...no assessing..?...no attempt to protect themselves even..?..just pulling right up a few feet away from what they thought was a 'public danger' ..is that what a police officer training would say to do...to drive straight into a 'danger zone'...

..he was dumb, well they were dumber because he was a 12yr old child who was dumb, they're trained police officers who didn't give any opportunity for a different outcome, one that would not have meant a loss of life...they drove right in front of him when they didn't have to, their choice..they gave themselves no more than seconds, so that to them, a split second decision had to be made to shoot him dead, their choice...the choice of police officers who have chosen to do this/their job in an open gun state so should be able to determine things before they fire their weapons...or at least attempt to, even if they were to get it wrong because no one is saying that errors of judgement can't be made sometimes but there was no apparent attempts at all to be seen with this...yes, he walked toward them with the fake gun but how did that happen...?...because they drove right up in front of him, because they put themselves in that position, he didn't do that..he didn't force that split decision out of them, to shoot and kill him...not once did they try to protect themselves from what they're saying they thought was a genuine weapon..the dumbest of the dumbest of the dumb and it's so wrong to dismiss that by focusing only on Tamir's wrongs in this...to focus only on the dumb of a 12yr old child...


..interesting actually because I'd forgotten the police call content and although a complete description had been given of what he was wearing etc, it really couldn't have been any clearer, there was a repeat question of...'is he black or white..'...so there was no one else wearing those same clothes, why was that so relevant that it was repeated and repeated and repeated...


..and it 'was his mum's fault' as well..(not his dad's obviously, but just his mum's..)...so many people at fault here but no fault on those who shot him, poor things...being forced to put themselves in danger the way they did, being forced to give themselves no alternative but to shoot him dead...to allow for no other outcome...to find out if he had any intention of firing a gun that he hadn't thus far fired...whatever Tamir did wrong, he has fully paid the ultimate price for that and so have his family, those police officers have not for their many, many wrongs with this....so really not that simple at all...

[arista]

"12yr old boys can do dumb things.."


He was not Dumb, Ammi


If I was his age I would break the pink tip off, as well

Poor Zones
Need to be advised more

[Ammi]

..so 12yr old who don't live in 'poor zones', don't need to be advised more..so not an age thing at all then..?...and again, no fault on the police officers who drove right in front of someone they thought had a loaded gun ...what was their 'advice' in that situation, shoot to kill always, take no chances, don't attempt to preserve life...?....

[arista]

"12yr old who don't live in 'poor zones', don't need to be advised more."


The Fecking Do in America.


They Must be advised

America is Law and Order


Ammi have you ever been in America
I mean non tourist zones
Because I have

[Ammi]

..then you would know would you not, that a first role and thought of a trained police officer is to protect and preserve against loss of life and not to put themselves into a position of danger, not to drive right up within a few feet of someone who they think has an armed weapon and fire their weapons within seconds of doing that ...

[arista]

..then you would know would you not, that a first role and thought of a trained police officer is to protect and preserve against loss of life and not to put themselves into a position of danger, not to drive right up within a few feet of someone who they think has an armed weapon and fire their weapons within seconds of doing that ...

Bang On Right Ammi
So there is a kid with Gun!
(the Pink Tip had been Removed)
Those officers must not Die


Law and Order
is not like what you have in your teaching zone.

America is Special
a New Nation


Back in the Day
We Used to Run them.

[Ammi]

Bang On Right Ammi
So there is a kid with Gun!
(the Pink Tip had been Removed)
Those officers must not Die


Law and Order
is not like what you have in your teaching zone.

America is Special
a New Nation


Back in the Day
We Used to Run them.


..there was a child with a gun who hadn't fired it at anyone but had, had every opportunity to... they could have kept a safe distance away from him, stayed behind their car etc, attempted to talk to him, attempted an assessment of the situation, attempted a preservation of life, waited for other officers..all of the things that could have been done but they did none of them, not one..that's what there was Arista...there was that 'kids' life to attempt to preserve as well...they placed themselves in danger, their choice...

...what does 'back in the day we used to run them' mean..?...

[Ammi]

..and stop Arista with a total focus on one thing with the bang on right Ammi..in that their role was to protect themselves from what they thought was an armed weapon..(even though the caller had expressed doubts about that, so a possibility of it not being was there to be greatly considered as well..)...when they put themselves in front of that weapon, something that was beyond dumb for any trained police officer...

[arista]

Arista...there was that 'kids' life to attempt to preserve as well.


Yes but it looked like a GUN
no Pink Tip


The Officers Have Been Cleared

[Ammi]

Arista...there was that 'kids' life to attempt to preserve as well.


Yes but it looked like a GUN
no Pink Tip


The Officers Have Been Cleared

..it looked like a gun so it should have been assessed that it was in fact a genuine gun before pulling up in front of it, should it not..?...I'm not a trained police officer, but I wouldn't put myself in front of what I thought was a loaded gun if I didn't have to, would anyone, let alone trained police officers who more than know that would be the absolute wrong thing to do..

[bots]

..it looked like a gun so it should have been assessed that it was in fact a genuine gun before pulling up in front of it, should it not..?...I'm not a trained police officer, but I wouldn't put myself in front of what I thought was a loaded gun if I didn't have to, would anyone, let alone trained police officers who more than know that would be the absolute wrong thing to do..

That is where their explanation loses all credibility. No trained officer would put themselves in front of a live gun if there was any chance they would get shot, and had many other options available.

[Ammi]

That is where their explanation loses all credibility. No trained officer would put themselves in front of a live gun if there was any chance they would get shot, and had many other options available.

..yeah and that being their very first action as well bitontheslide, leaves there being no credibility in any of what happened that day...no credibility and no justification, none whatsoever...a child need not have died, parents need not have lost their son but it was so because of the actions of police officers, the very first actions of trained police officers...

[Ammi]

...you (genuinely think..).. you're going into a 'danger zone', you place yourself in front of that danger zone..you place yourself in danger and leave no option other than to shoot dead..(you think..)...all, all decisions and choices that you yourself have made despite any training that would say that would be the thing you would not do in the first place...you bear no responsibility for that child brandishing a fake gun but you bear every responsibility for his loss of life...

[arista]

..it looked like a gun so it should have been assessed that it was in fact a genuine gun before pulling up in front of it, should it not..?...I'm not a trained police officer, but I wouldn't put myself in front of what I thought was a loaded gun if I didn't have to, would anyone, let alone trained police officers who more than know that would be the absolute wrong thing to do..


Yes I can feel that.

First off its USA
Nothing like UK Law And order


To many young kids get real guns (In USA)
sadly this lad did not understand
that he must stay in the garden.


Its Tragic

[arista]

...you (genuinely think..).. you're going into a 'danger zone', you place yourself in front of that danger zone..you place yourself in danger and leave no option other than to shoot dead..(you think..)...all, all decisions and choices that you yourself have made despite any training that would say that would be the thing you would not do in the first place...you bear no responsibility for that child brandishing a fake gun but you bear every responsibility for his loss of life...


All Fake Guns have Pink Tips.


This toy had the tip removed, sadly

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

No this is America
Are you aware that Police get Assassinated
(Ref NYC)

If you start killing cops
I would shoot first

As I would Wish To Stay Alive


.,

http://i.imgur.com/gew9UeZ.jpg


Tamir didn't even get a chance to yell boom boom. White privilege.

[arista]

I.T.I.L.Y.

So what
this is about a young bog tragic Death
No Pink Tip on his Toy gun.


Those Cops are Cleared
and Working good Now

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

http://i.imgur.com/jGOAf4s.jpg

[Kizzy]

Is that Lemmy?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Is that Lemmy?

Yes but read the tweet. If you don't know 150-300 armed white men have taken over a building and it's being called a peaceful protest. Imagine if that was a number of black or muslim men.

[Kizzy]

Yes but read the tweet. If you don't know 150-300 armed white men have taken over a building and it's being called a peaceful protest. Imagine if that was a number of black or muslim men.

Right, will have a look the only building Lemmy is occupying is in gods kingdom :(

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Right, will have a look the only building Lemmy is occupying is in gods kingdom :(

RIP

[GiRTh]

Cleveland Gets Rid Of Prosecutor Who Refused To Charge Tamir Rice Shooter

LINK (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03/16/3760734/tim-mcginty-ousted/)

Excellent news :clap1:

[GiRTh]

Chicago prosecutor has been ousted.

Anita Alvarez concedes bid for third term in Chicago

LINK (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/15/politics/anita-alvarez-election/)

More excellent news. :clap1:

[GiRTh]

The police are still getting off lightly but at least some of the prosecutors are losing their jobs. :clap1:

[DemolitionRed]

Thanks for the update Girth. This is good news.

[Kizzy]

Yep a step in the right direction :)

[GiRTh]

Its excellent news all round, Let hope they find an unlikely loop hole and finally prosecute these murderers.

[Ammi]

Cleveland Gets Rid Of Prosecutor Who Refused To Charge Tamir Rice Shooter

LINK (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03/16/3760734/tim-mcginty-ousted/)

Excellent news :clap1:

Chicago prosecutor has been ousted.

Anita Alvarez concedes bid for third term in Chicago

LINK (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/15/politics/anita-alvarez-election/)

More excellent news. :clap1:


...wow, I didn't know about the 'smear campaign' against Tamir's mum, it really does leave you speechless as to the corruption of some of the judicial systems...I would like to think that this is just the start of it all and that prosecutions could follow as well.../justice at last...

Its excellent news all round, Let hope they find an unlikely loop hole and finally prosecute these murderers.

..and yes, final and ultimate accountability of those responsible is something to hope for...with all of the 'legal brains' as it were in the USA, you would think that it wouldn't be that hard to find the loopholes needed...

[GiRTh]

...wow, I didn't know about the 'smear campaign' against Tamir's mum, it really does leave you speechless as to the corruption of some of the judicial systems...I would like to think that this is just the start of it all and that prosecutions could follow as well.../justice at last...



..and yes, final and ultimate accountability of those responsible is something to hope for...with all of the 'legal brains' as it were in the USA, you would think that it wouldn't be that hard to find the loopholes needed...Yes I hope this shows change is possible. We must also praise the role of BLM in getting rid of Alvarez. Good for them to be linked with some positive headlines.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/11/chicago-prosecutor-election-anita-alvarez-cook-county-black-lives-matter-laquan-mcdonald

[Johnnyuk123]

Yes but read the tweet. If you don't know 150-300 armed white men have taken over a building and it's being called a peaceful protest. Imagine if that was a number of black or muslim men.

Oh but it does happen in the uk too.
f8WVkbXOHfM

[Tom4784]

Oh but it does happen in the uk too.
f8WVkbXOHfM

That's got nothing to do with the topic at hand but okay, a BBC3 documentary is certainly comparable to a siege.

[Ammi]

Yes I hope this shows change is possible. We must also praise the role of BLM in getting rid of Alvarez. Good for them to be linked with some positive headlines.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/11/chicago-prosecutor-election-anita-alvarez-cook-county-black-lives-matter-laquan-mcdonald

..yeah I agree, it doesn't get reported enough I don't think..all of the positive things and changes that Black Lives Matter actively do and work so hard for and is sadly more focused on protests etc, which often get responses of being dismissed with 'all lives matter though'/rolleyes, type thing....quite a negative portrayal by the media, which actually just helps encourage racism even more.../crazy...

[Mystic Mock]

The Police will never get into trouble in any country if they do something wrong sadly.

The only way to get the American Government to fix The Police is if they harm the Government in some way? Otherwise forget it as the Governments in all countries are too selfish to fix anything that is going wrong in the country for the majority of it's people.

[Mystic Mock]

The Police will never get into trouble in any country if they do something wrong sadly.

The only way to get the American Government to fix The Police is if they harm the Government in some way? Otherwise forget it as the Governments in all countries are too selfish to fix anything that is going wrong in the country for the majority of it's people.

[Northern Monkey]

Oh but it does happen in the uk too.
f8WVkbXOHfM

When they told her she looks naked she should have said 'Atleast i did'nt dress for a Star Wars convention'.Luton looks like an awful place to live.I've seen other vids of it and it looks horrendous

[GiRTh]

Cleveland agrees to pay Tamir Rice family $6m over police shooting

LINK (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/25/cleveland-tamir-rice-family-lawsuit-settlement)

Excellent news :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

“There is no admission of wrongdoing,” the court filing states.

“We can only hope the Rice family and their attorneys will use a portion of this settlement to help educate the youth of Cleveland in the dangers associated with the mishandling of both real and facsimile firearms,” Stephen Loomis, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, said in a statement.

:clap1:

[Tom4784]

“There is no admission of wrongdoing,” the court filing states.

“We can only hope the Rice family and their attorneys will use a portion of this settlement to help educate the youth of Cleveland in the dangers associated with the mishandling of both real and facsimile firearms,” Stephen Loomis, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, said in a statement.

:clap1:

The fact they paid out at all is an unofficial admission of guilt. You don't hand out that kind of cash when you aren't in the wrong.

But yay, the murderers of an innocent child have gotten away scot free! :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

“There is no admission of wrongdoing,” the court filing states.

[Tom4784]

“There is no admission of wrongdoing,” the court filing states.

As the police department hands out money for killing an innocent unarmed child.

[GiRTh]

“There is no admission of wrongdoing,” the court filing states.

“We can only hope the Rice family and their attorneys will use a portion of this settlement to help educate the youth of Cleveland in the dangers associated with the mishandling of both real and facsimile firearms,” Stephen Loomis, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, said in a statement.

:clap1:Its your fault we murdered you.

The utimate in victim blaming.