Am I a bad person for this?

[JoshBB]

The other day, I was walking around my local shopping centre and it was really busy, so by logic that means there will be a lot of diversity. Well when I was in one shop, I picked something up that I dropped and when I looked up there was a young muslim lady walking by me wearing a niqab covering the whole face except for her eyes, like this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/5f/57/e95f570e9026bdddf77251cddb6967b0.jpg I was quite surprised because I've never seen that in real life before and I think I came across visibly shocked because she walked away quite quickly and I noticed a few minutes later that she had removed the face covering.

I felt really bad because I feel like she removed that because she thought I was uncomfortable with it or something. I've always wrote on here about how I defend every woman's right to wear whatever she chooses (same with men), so it wasn't that at all. I feel sad because I think she thought she would tone down what she wanted to wear because of other peoples discomfort.. and nobody should ever have to censor themselves like that.

Do you guys think I have some kind of internal prejudice I didn't know about? I know I don't act on it, but perhaps it's there since my reaction to seeing a lady wearing a niqab for the first time?

[Jamie89]

No it doesn't make you a bad person. It was just because you've never seen someone wearing one before. I'm sure if it was an every day sight for you, you wouldn't react like that. Like, if you saw Britney walking past you'd probably be surprised too :laugh: Doesn't mean you dislike her. It may have made the woman feel uncomfortable, I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you reacted the way you did out of prejudice or anything.

[Jack_]

I expect it's a mixture of both, years of being subjected to be media narratives about how they're to be feared, and seeing something out of the ordinary that took you aback.

I too had an experience along these lines a few days after the Paris attacks and I was so unbelievably disappointed in myself. I was getting on a ferry to go back to uni, and walked up the aisle to try and find a window seat as I usually do, but to no avail. I kept walking and the first available seat was one next to a woman sat fully covered as you described, but with even smaller holes for her eyes. 9 times out of 10 I would just sit down, but in that split second I carried on walking and took a spare seat a few rows up. This woman remained sat on her own and as soon as I had walked past her I immediately thought to myself 'what the **** am I doing? I've fallen victim to the very thing I condemn', but it was too late to turn back :(

I've never in my adolescent or adult life ever done anything like that, it's totally out of character but these things happen. I still know my opinions on these things and I'm sure you do too, try not to take it to heart.

[Denver]

I just think people react in different ways and by the sounds of it it is because you don't see it much maybe try and keep it to yourself until your alone at times? Or maybe she gets a lot of hassle and thought she was gonna recieve mpre from you? Its hard to say in these circumstances as we all act differently

[billy123]

The other day, I was walking around my local shopping centre and it was really busy, so by logic that means there will be a lot of diversity. Well when I was in one shop, I picked something up that I dropped and when I looked up there was a young muslim lady walking by me wearing a niqab covering the whole face except for her eyes, like this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/5f/57/e95f570e9026bdddf77251cddb6967b0.jpg I was quite surprised because I've never seen that in real life before and I think I came across visibly shocked because she walked away quite quickly and I noticed a few minutes later that she had removed the face covering.

I felt really bad because I feel like she removed that because she thought I was uncomfortable with it or something. I've always wrote on here about how I defend every woman's right to wear whatever she chooses (same with men), so it wasn't that at all. I feel sad because I think she thought she would tone down what she wanted to wear because of other peoples discomfort.. and nobody should ever have to censor themselves like that.

Do you guys think I have some kind of internal prejudice I didn't know about? I know I don't act on it, but perhaps it's there since my reaction to seeing a lady wearing a niqab for the first time?No its not prejudice it is just a reaction to something unfamiliar.I dont doubt for a second the lady in question just thought LOL that young man seemed suprised to see me wearing my niqab.
I wouldnt worry about it. Why she removed it who knows maybe she felt uncomfortable about being without it in a crowded place but felt ok to remove it once away from a crowd.
You should have asked her Contrary to what some idiots on here would try and have you believe im sure she would have been friendly.

[Firewire]

If someone were to walk in with a physical disability, a scar or growth on their skin I'm pretty certain everyone would stare a few seconds longer than they should. It's not a prejudice it's just something new to you and at first you might find it quite shocking to see it in the flesh.

[Jamie89]

If someone were to walk in with a physical disability, a scar or growth on their skin I'm pretty certain everyone would stare a few seconds longer than they should. It's not a prejudice it's just something new to you and at first you might find it quite shocking to see it in the flesh.

This is also true. One of my friends is quite severely disabled, physically, and whenever we're out in a cafe or wherever there's always people that stare, because he looks unusual, and his chair is so big, they're just not used to seeing someone like him. It's not out of prejudice, and it doesn't offend him either.

[Smithy]

I feel worse for the woman in Jacks story tbh cause she was on her own for the whole journey

[Jamie89]

I'm wearing a niqab next time I get the coach tbh, I hate it when people sit next to me

[Jason.]

I'm wearing a niqab next time I get the coach tbh, I hate it when people sit next to me

welp

[EspeonBB]

Ofc you're not racist Josh. I think it's just the media influence telling us that Muslims are people to be feared. Plus if you've never seen someone wearing a niqab in public before then it's a natural reaction to be surprised

[Shaun]

RovF1zsDoeM

[arista]

"I think I came across visibly shocked because she walked away quite quickly "


You just need more world holidays lad

[arista]

I'm wearing a niqab next time I get the coach tbh, I hate it when people sit next to me


Don't do it

in case a gang get you from Behind
leaving you no chance to say
I am having a laugh

[Ninastar]

no it's understandable. I always get such a culture shock when I go to Bradford. It's like another world.

[Jack_]

I feel worse for the woman in Jacks story tbh cause she was on her own for the whole journey

To be fair, it's a ten minute journey but yeah I did too

[Cherie]

I expect it's a mixture of both, years of being subjected to be media narratives about how they're to be feared, and seeing something out of the ordinary that took you aback.

I too had an experience along these lines a few days after the Paris attacks and I was so unbelievably disappointed in myself. I was getting on a ferry to go back to uni, and walked up the aisle to try and find a window seat as I usually do, but to no avail. I kept walking and the first available seat was one next to a woman sat fully covered as you described, but with even smaller holes for her eyes. 9 times out of 10 I would just sit down, but in that split second I carried on walking and took a spare seat a few rows up. This woman remained sat on her own and as soon as I had walked past her I immediately thought to myself 'what the **** am I doing? I've fallen victim to the very thing I condemn', but it was too late to turn back :(

I've never in my adolescent or adult life ever done anything like that, it's totally out of character but these things happen. I still know my opinions on these things and I'm sure you do too, try not to take it to heart.


I don't really get why you didn't want to sit beside her, did you perceive her as a threat in which case sitting a few rows away wouldn't really have made much difference :shrug:

Josh don't worry about it next time you won't give it a second though. Travelling through London especially at night you see all sorts sometimes you just have to look twice :joker:

[Northern Monkey]

You think that's bad?
I was at the post office the other day and there was a lady wearing a red veil,You know the kind with just the slot for the eyes.
Anyway without thinking i proceeded to post my letter through the slot!I soon realised my mistake and was on my way.I could'nt help feeling slightly bad about the misunderstanding afterwards.Am i a bad person?

[Lostie!]

You're evidently not a bad person since you're worrying about it, a bad person wouldn't think twice about how someone might be feeling.

[Jake.]

You're evidently not a bad person since you're worrying about it, a bad person wouldn't think twice about how someone might be feeling.

yeah pretty much this

[jennyjuniper]

I expect it's a mixture of both, years of being subjected to be media narratives about how they're to be feared, and seeing something out of the ordinary that took you aback.

I too had an experience along these lines a few days after the Paris attacks and I was so unbelievably disappointed in myself. I was getting on a ferry to go back to uni, and walked up the aisle to try and find a window seat as I usually do, but to no avail. I kept walking and the first available seat was one next to a woman sat fully covered as you described, but with even smaller holes for her eyes. 9 times out of 10 I would just sit down, but in that split second I carried on walking and took a spare seat a few rows up. This woman remained sat on her own and as soon as I had walked past her I immediately thought to myself 'what the **** am I doing? I've fallen victim to the very thing I condemn', but it was too late to turn back :(

I've never in my adolescent or adult life ever done anything like that, it's totally out of character but these things happen. I still know my opinions on these things and I'm sure you do too, try not to take it to heart.

I'm not saying this to make you feel better, although I hope it does that anyway, but if she was so religously motivated that she wore that, then she wouldn't have appreciated a strange man sitting next to her anyway.

[Will.]

I'm wearing a niqab next time I get the coach tbh, I hate it when people sit next to me

What if I sat next to you on a coach? :smug:

[joeysteele]

The other day, I was walking around my local shopping centre and it was really busy, so by logic that means there will be a lot of diversity. Well when I was in one shop, I picked something up that I dropped and when I looked up there was a young muslim lady walking by me wearing a niqab covering the whole face except for her eyes, like this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/5f/57/e95f570e9026bdddf77251cddb6967b0.jpg I was quite surprised because I've never seen that in real life before and I think I came across visibly shocked because she walked away quite quickly and I noticed a few minutes later that she had removed the face covering.

I felt really bad because I feel like she removed that because she thought I was uncomfortable with it or something. I've always wrote on here about how I defend every woman's right to wear whatever she chooses (same with men), so it wasn't that at all. I feel sad because I think she thought she would tone down what she wanted to wear because of other peoples discomfort.. and nobody should ever have to censor themselves like that.

Do you guys think I have some kind of internal prejudice I didn't know about? I know I don't act on it, but perhaps it's there since my reaction to seeing a lady wearing a niqab for the first time?

No not at all it doesn't Josh.

While I respect the right of any to wear what they wish, I really do feel actually, in these unstable days with terrorism and threats of acts of terrorism against us, that we should be able to clearly see all and identify all those other people who we are walking in the streets with, and going into shops and stores with too.

[Ross.]

You're evidently not a bad person since you're worrying about it, a bad person wouldn't think twice about how someone might be feeling.

:clap1:

[Raph]

Not at all Josh. We're all victims to the cultural and social constructs presented in the media and just basically everywhere in our daily lives. The fact that you were able to reflect on your own behavior and acknowledge the subconscious prejudice you had is exactly what one should do in such a situation, and I think you've articulated yourself quite well regarding that.

I know you have very similar liberal views to me so I absolutely get where you're coming from but we all have to learn through acknowledging our own prejudices and privileges. It wouldn't be human really (unfortunately) if you were able to entirely eradicate years and years of social constructs that you've been growing up with. If anything it's great that something like this happened to you, because it allowed you to expand upon the critical depth of your political views in a real-life setting.

Don't feel bad buddy :)

[Kizzy]

The other day, I was walking around my local shopping centre and it was really busy, so by logic that means there will be a lot of diversity. Well when I was in one shop, I picked something up that I dropped and when I looked up there was a young muslim lady walking by me wearing a niqab covering the whole face except for her eyes, like this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/5f/57/e95f570e9026bdddf77251cddb6967b0.jpg I was quite surprised because I've never seen that in real life before and I think I came across visibly shocked because she walked away quite quickly and I noticed a few minutes later that she had removed the face covering.

I felt really bad because I feel like she removed that because she thought I was uncomfortable with it or something. I've always wrote on here about how I defend every woman's right to wear whatever she chooses (same with men), so it wasn't that at all. I feel sad because I think she thought she would tone down what she wanted to wear because of other peoples discomfort.. and nobody should ever have to censor themselves like that.

Do you guys think I have some kind of internal prejudice I didn't know about? I know I don't act on it, but perhaps it's there since my reaction to seeing a lady wearing a niqab for the first time?

No of course not! :laugh: I'm shocked that you have never come into contact with it before though, mind you I live very near Bradford so I would.

[user104658]

Oh Josh, I know you hate to be patronised, but the fact that you've gotten yourself so worried about this is just too cute :D.

... So long as you weren't actually thinking anything negative, it doesn't make you racist or prejudiced. I've been "startled" before when I've looked up and seen a guy who was black. I don't mean "black" as in "darker skinned and therefore a black person" - I mean literally the colour black. It's has usual and startling. But then I've also been similarly startled by seeing someone so pale that they are literally white. It has nothing to do with race, and it's not a negative judgement, it's just that when you perceive something (anything) your mind has little files and categories to store the information in, and so, when you encounter anything that you've never encountered before you get a little "stall" or "jolt" while your brain takes it in and then adjusts to categorise the new information.

Like I said... So long as you don't find yourself categorising it as anything bad / to be feared / to be mocked, then it's not racism at all.

[lostalex]

no, because muslim is not a race. seeing someone dressed like that would be disturbing to anyone in a modern western country where we don't expect women to be treated like property, hidden away from the world. it makes sense that you would be startled and concerned for her.

If a non-muslim, christian white man asked his wife to cover herself in that way, and not interact with other men, what would you think about that white christian man? You would assume he was abusive and that the woman was being treated like his property, right? you would assume she was being hidden away and being abused.

you should not have different standards of judgement for different religions. that would be wrong, to treat people differently because of their religion is wrong.

If it's wrong it's wrong, period. and forcing women to act like ghosts in cloaks is wrong no matter which religion does it.

[AnnieK]

I'm really surprised so many people haven't seen this before. It's like anything that's new....it's a shock and next time you won't be fazed. Don't beat yourself up. :love:

[Kizzy]

Haha, actually it reminds me of the first time I saw a transgender lady in a supermarket, I'm not in anyway prejudiced but I actually avoided going in the aisle ...
Because I was worried I would inadvertently do something to make me look like I was, no idea why I'm admitting this :/

[Northern Monkey]

Real story time(last one was fake incase anybody did'nt notice).
About 14 years ago.I used to work in a shop,Infact i was a supervisor.I was helping out on the checkout.I was stood with a big queue in front of me and was looking down at some stock on the floor.Anyway when i looked up at the next person in line i physically gasped in shock.The person saw me do it and i felt really bad for doing it but it was an uncontrollable reaction.The person i was serving had very badly deformed face.I'm talking like it looked warped almost like that old app you could get for your camera,Kinda like the mask from the movie Scream.I've never seen anything like it since tbh.
At the end of the day we're only human and we're not perfect.

[Kizzy]

I also once pointed and laughed at a dwarf ( small person) I was about 6 but I can still see the look of pure horror on my dads face as I did it.

[Northern Monkey]

I also once pointed and laughed at a dwarf ( small person) I was about 6 but I can still see the look of pure horror on my dads face as I did it.

:joker:

I was very surprised then until i read that you were 6.Thought you were gonna say last week or something:laugh:

[Ninastar]

no, because muslim is not a race. seeing someone dressed like that would be disturbing to anyone in a modern western country where we don't expect women to be treated like property, hidden away from the world. it makes sense that you would be startled and concerned for her.

If a non-muslim, christian white man asked his wife to cover herself in that way, and not interact with other men, what would you think about that white christian man? You would assume he was abusive and that the woman was being treated like his property, right? you would assume she was being hidden away and being abused.

you should not have different standards of judgement for different religions. that would be wrong, to treat people differently because of their religion is wrong.

If it's wrong it's wrong, period. and forcing women to act like ghosts in cloaks is wrong no matter which religion does it.

I pretty much agree with all of this. I know the woman chooses to wear a burka/veil over her face/whatever, but I don't think it's right at all.

I went to Bradford to try out the new Taco Bell and there was a Muslim girl in the queue, wearing a burka and I smiled at her. She smiled back (you could tell by her eyes) and she actually said to me, laughing, "Don't worry! I smiled back" and I laughed as well and said "Yeah don't worry, I could tell!" and then we didn't say anything after that, lol.

You could tell she was a lovely girl, but I just think it's so sad that anyone would feel like they need to cover their face up. I understand that our culture or thought to be 'floozy' and 'slutty' because of the way some girls dress, which I totally understand, but to have your whole body covered apart from your eyes is just plain wrong imo.