the child doesn't have a choice.

[Beso]

discuss.

[GiRTh]

On what?

[Headie]

They don't have a choice in heterosexual adoptions either so point invalid really :shrug:

[Beso]

They don't have a choice in heterosexual adoptions either so point invalid really :shrug:

maybe thats his view on adoption in general.

[Pete.]

I'm sure Kristina will be a great mum

[Oliver_W]

They have even less choice about being born to idiots like that.

As far as I know, adopted children can be rehomed if the placement doesn't work out, so they have MORE choice than those with biological parents!

[Northern Monkey]

He probably thinks that life for the child could be hell due to bullying etc.

[susie q]

It was a really daft thing to say, all round.

[reece(:]

He probably thinks that life for the child could be hell due to bullying etc.
Yeah, maybe not

[Niamh.]

No child has a choice on who it's parents are biological or adopted

[Oliver_W]

He probably thinks that life for the child could be hell due to bullying etc.

I know the school I work at isn't EVERY school, but I know of two kids with gay parents, and they don't get bullied for it.

[Lostie!]

I agree with Winston. I'm sure all the homophobic babies out there are glad that their case is being fought for.

[Beso]

He probably thinks that life for the child could be hell due to bullying etc.

yeah that's how i took it.:shrug:

[Shaun]

maybe thats his view on adoption in general.

Doubt it.

[Niamh.]

I agree with Winston. I'm sure all the homophobic babies out there are glad that their case is being fought for.


:laugh:

[Jamie89]

Desperately clutching at straws to try and justify his homophobia. Idiotic statement so not much to discuss really

[jet]

No child has a choice on who it's parents are biological or adopted

Came in here to say just that. :thumbs:

[Jamie89]

I agree with Winston. I'm sure all the homophobic babies out there are glad that their case is being fought for.

:joker:

#justice4homophobicbabies

[Will.]

Technically I did though, I got rid of the horrid adoptive parents and kept the nice ones ha :)

I chose the rich ones, got to think of my future.

One couple house smelt when I went round, so I got rid.


http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar91353_67.gif

[Niamh.]

Came in here to say just that. :thumbs:


:love:

[Jarrod]

What is there to discuss? There's no justification for saying that the child doesn't have a choice. No child has a choice in any parent decision - biological or not. Winston is a vile homophobic UKIP candidate who was gripping at straws to try and explain his comments.

[Beso]

It was a really daft thing to say, all round.

true.

[Guuki]

That was his opinion like any other opinion. Come on. He is Christian, gay couples are against his religion and he's not supporting adoptions by homosexual couples. Opinion and views like any others. Give him a break.

[sampvt]

If you feel that a child should have the love of a mother and the guidance of a father in the traditional family way, then Winston is right.

If however you feel the kid does not need these traditional values, then he is wrong.

2 different views but any kid brought up in a male dominated environment will have to run the gauntlet of kids at school who are not as forgiving as our PC society and might find they have gender issues which they might follow just to please their adopted parents.

Personally I believe in the sanctity of the traditional marriage and family life, but that's the way I was brought up.

[Shaun]

Because mums can't offer guidance and fathers can't offer love I suppose.

[Northern Monkey]

If you feel that a child should have the love of a mother and the guidance of a father in the traditional family way, then Winston is right.

If however you feel the kid does not need these traditional values, then he is wrong.

2 different views but any kid brought up in a male dominated environment will have to run the gauntlet of kids at school who are not as forgiving as our PC society and might find they have gender issues which they might follow just to please their adopted parents.

Personally I believe in the sanctity of the traditional marriage and family life, but that's the way I was brought up.I also believe that the ideal enviroment for a child is a mum and dad.A balanced upbringing and view of the world.

[Niamh.]

I believe a child needs love, stability and interest

[Jamie89]

That was his opinion like any other opinion. Come on. He is Christian, gay couples are against his religion and he's not supporting adoptions by homosexual couples. Opinion and views like any others. Give him a break.

:umm2: How do you explain that some Christians support gay couples adopting? People who use religion to justify their homophobia are cowards. He has his own mind to form his views so blaming the bible isn't an excuse. And saying it's 'child abuse' isn't simply 'not supporting' it. It's a hateful thing to say.

[Northern Monkey]

There are certain qualities that a mother brings to the table that a man just can't do as well and vice versa.Kids need both imo for a balanced upbringing.

[Jamie89]

There are certain qualities that a mother brings to the table that a man just can't do as well and vice versa.Kids need both imo for a balanced upbringing.

Like what? And do you know any kids who have been brought up by same sex parents that have turned out unbalanced?

[Niamh.]

There are certain qualities that a mother brings to the table that a man just can't do as well and vice versa.Kids need both imo for a balanced upbringing.


If I died in the morning I would be 100% confident that my husband could give my kids everything they need

[Northern Monkey]

If I died in the morning I would be 100% confident that my husband could give my kids everything they need

I'm sure he could do an excellent job just as i'd hope i could but i know that they also need their mums love in the perfect enviroment.Women are just better at certain things imo.My kids run straight to their mum if they hurt themself for comfort but come to me for other things like if they're scared.Things like that.

[Northern Monkey]

Like what? And do you know any kids who have been brought up by same sex parents that have turned out unbalanced?
No but plenty with single mothers.Men and women both have things they're better at.

[LukeB]

what he said made no sense, the child don't get a choice with straight couples either.. so it's no different to a gay couple.. so he is an idiot

[Tom4784]

He's just a bigoted idiot that was desperately trying to hide it.

[T*]

The child doesn't have a ****ing choice in anything anyway

[Vicky.]

Children dont ever get a choice in who their parents are, it was a bizarre way of trying to justify his views :umm2:

[Beso]

i wonder what % of gay couples only adopt a child of the same sex? anyone got figures?

[Vicky.]

i wonder what % of gay couples only adopt a child of the same sex? anyone got figures?

Does that sort of thing get tracked?

And why do you wonder?

genuinely curious :laugh:

[Beso]

Does that sort of thing get tracked?

And why do you wonder?

genuinely curious :laugh:

things like that interest me.:blush:

[JoshBB]

There are certain qualities that a mother brings to the table that a man just can't do as well and vice versa.Kids need both imo for a balanced upbringing.

Gender roles are a social construct

[Northern Monkey]

Gender roles are a social construct

It's all very well typing sound bites like that but when you have kids and see the benefits they get from their mother,Specially with boys then experience says otherwise.There is no substitute for a mothers love and a fathers.I'm sure two males or females can do an adequate job but is adequate good enough?I would prefer the best possible enviroment.But hey that might just be me.
People wanting kids VS Best enviroment for kids to grow into balanced adults.
The latter wins for me.Some people seem to think having children is a right,No matter the consequences.

[JoshBB]

It's all very well typing sound bites like that but when you have kids and see the benefits they get from their mother,Specially with boys then experience says otherwise.There is no substitute for a mothers love and a fathers.I'm sure two males or females can do an adequate job but is adequate good enough?I would prefer the best possible enviroment.But hey that might just be me.
People wanting kids VS Best enviroment for kids to grow into balanced adults.
The latter wins for me.Some people seem to think having children is a right,No matter the consequences.

What a load of rubbish. Whether or not parents are good or not depends how they dedicate themselves to their children, not the gender of each of them.

[Northern Monkey]

What a load of rubbish. Whether or not parents are good or not depends how they dedicate themselves to their children, not the gender of each of them.

Nobodies saying they can't be "good" parents.However two good mums or two good dads just is'nt the same as a good mum and dad.

[JoshBB]

Nobodies saying they can't be "good" parents.However two good mums or two good dads just is'nt the same as a good mum and dad.

Why? Because they're gay? That automatically makes them less capable of raising children?

[Vicky.]

Nobodies saying they can't be "good" parents.However two good mums or two good dads just is'nt the same as a good mum and dad.

But these children, if not adopted, have NO mum and dad. Surely its better to have 2 mums, or 2 dads, or even one mum or one dad...than having no parents at all and growing up in care :S

[seanraff07]

Makes zero sense, you don't get an option biologically.

The guy is a prat, that's the summary of this debate.

[zakman440]

He's just a bigoted idiot that was desperately trying to hide it.

.

[ThriceShy]

No child has a choice on who it's parents are biological or adopted


Perhaps he thinks the child should have a right to have an actual mother. You know, like all mammals do. It's kind of the normal run of events.

[mistybluesea]

Children don't get a say in anything, it's not a valid reason to think gay couples shouldn't adopt.

[Beso]

should have moved it to serios debates.



can you post that link again please jet.

[qwerty42]

Its not homophobic though, he didn't say he hates them.

[letmein]

Its not homophobic though, he didn't say he hates them.

:joker:

[Beso]

Can i ask a mod why all the paedophile discussion has been deleted?

[Firewire]

People who say a child should have both a mother and father probably have a lot to say about single parents then?

[Glenn.]

I'm not in agreement that a mother and father are needed to bring up a respectable child. As long as a child has a loving and safe home life, that's all that matters.

As for the pathetic excuse for a man that is Winston, I stopped caring from the homophobic comment made in his VT

[Beso]

People who say a child should have both a mother and father probably have a lot to say about single parents then?


Not all single parents but staatistics do prove that children brought up by single mothers go on to lead a less satisfactory lifestyle than those brought up by a mother and father.

[Firewire]

Not all single parents but staatistics do prove that children brought up by single mothers go on to lead a less satisfactory lifestyle than those brought up by a mother and father.

But there is no statistics to say children in same-sex families are brought up with less satisfactory lives by those in traditional relationships. I wrote an essay on this.

[Ross.]

I'm not in agreement that a mother and father are needed to bring up a respectable child. As long as a child has a loving and safe home life, that's all that matters.


pretty much my thoughts exactly

[Kizzy]

Not all single parents but staatistics do prove that children brought up by single mothers go on to lead a less satisfactory lifestyle than those brought up by a mother and father.

It begins, gay adoption to lone parents in 3 pages :/

[Ant.]

Perhaps he thinks the child should have a right to have an actual mother. You know, like all mammals do. It's kind of the normal run of events.

What about lesbians?

[Firewire]

It begins, gay adoption to lone parents in 3 pages :/

And it isn't even serious debates :joker:

[Beso]

It begins, gay adoption to lone parents in 3 pages :/


I have no idea why you singled my post out considering single parents were mentioned posts and posts ago and I'm merely pointing out some statistics?

Well i do know actually but i would get an infraction for mentioning the forum clique, so i wont.:sleep:

[Kizzy]

No but plenty with single mothers.Men and women both have things they're better at.

What are women better at? What are men better at?

These patriarchal societal rules are being rewritten, there in essence is nothing that one gender is and better or worse at than the other, it's gender socialisation that perpetuates these 'norms'.

[Jamie89]

Can i ask a mod why all the paedophile discussion has been deleted?

D: You want to tie a discussion about paedophilia into a thread about gay adoption?

What the actual **** is going on here!!!

[Vicky.]

Can i ask a mod why all the paedophile discussion has been deleted?

Because it was all incredibly offensive. Came across as if the view was that paedophiles pose as gay couples in order to adopt a child to abuse.

[Beso]

But there is no statistics to say children in same-sex families are brought up with less satisfactory lives by those in traditional relationships. I wrote an essay on this.

What do you want me to say?

Im not sure i see anyone apart from winston saying they don't.

[Crimson Dynamo]

wont someone think of the children?

[Northern Monkey]

What are women better at? What are men better at?

These patriarchal societal rules are being rewritten, there in essence is nothing that one gender is and better or worse at than the other, it's gender socialisation that perpetuates these 'norms'.And this is rubbish.Just because people want everything to be perfectly equal guess what....... They are not.Genetics dictate otherwise.Men and women both have their strengths and weaknesses.That's life.

[Ross.]

wont someone think of the children?

:joker:

[Kizzy]

I have no idea why you singled my post out considering single parents were mentioned posts and posts ago and I'm merely pointing out some statistics?

Well i do know actually but i would get an infraction for mentioning the forum clique, so i wont.:sleep:

You mentioned the word statistics, I haven't seen any...
You are the OP that's why, there was a comparison earlier I must have missed it, it wasn't personal :/

[karezza]

He's just a bigoted idiot that was desperately trying to hide it.

Everyone is someone else's bigot.

[Shaun]

Loving the skimming use of facts here. It's just genetics guys! Single parents are bad! Accept it! Move on!

[Beso]

Because it was all incredibly offensive. Came across as if the view was that paedophiles pose as gay couples in order to adopt a child to abuse.


The discussion was that some would, only fools would think otherwise vicky. Couldnt it have been moved to serious debates, is it still possible to do that or are they all deleted for good..thanks for the reply though, and your right, we dont want to upset those paedophiles when there's an aging old dinasour to attack.

[Kizzy]

And this is rubbish.Just because people want everything to be perfectly equal guess what....... They are not.Genetics dictate otherwise.Men and women both have their strengths and weaknesses.That's life.

No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong.

[Vicky.]

The discussion was that some would, only fools would think otherwise vicky. Couldnt it have been moved to serious debates, is it still possible to do that or are they all deleted for good..thanks for the reply though, and your right, we dont want to upset those paedophiles when there's an aging old dinasour to attack.

Yeah this was the reason...don't want to upset paedos by insinuating that they are gay :umm2:

And no, deleted posts are still here. I don't think the way a lot of them were worded would make a decent SD thread though tbh. Was all rather inflammatory and accusatory at times too.

[Beso]

D: You want to tie a discussion about paedophilia into a thread about gay adoption?

What the actual **** is going on here!!!

The thread is actually about wether gay adoption is child abuse and seeing as paedophilia is child abuse then i thought it was a natural link to make, pity the mods deleted all posts made from all points of view last night because you could then have made a better judgement before being all aghast.

[Beso]

Yeah this was the reason...don't want to upset paedos by insinuating that they are gay :umm2:

And no, deleted posts are still here. I don't think the way a lot of them were worded would make a decent SD thread though tbh. Was all rather inflammatory and accusatory at times too.

But is that not just in your eyes? Or whoever deleted them. Cant you put them back up and let the forum users decide?

As far as im aware there was no insulting. It is a subject i and many on here feel very strongly about.

[Vicky.]

The thread is actually about wether gay adoption is child abuse and seeing as paedophilia is child abuse then i thought it was a natural link to make, pity the mods deleted all posts made from all points of view last night because you could then have made a better judgement before being all aghast.

just want to mention that paedophiles are devious and would stop at nothing to get a child....just saying.

People asked are you serious...

true though, nothing stopping 2 of them getting together to try and adopt.


This was the level of intellect of the discussion of pedos on this thread last night. Granted this was only the start, or how it was brought up. It went on for several posts...pretty much the same way

Paedophiles were randomly brought up. Then it was discussed about how they could get together and pose as a gay couple to get a child to abuse. It was pointed out that paedophilia is not limited to gays and is evenly spread between homos and heteros...yet the link between gay adoption and paedophiles continued to be made.


Anyone else that thinks that this conversation was at all relevant to the matter at hand or could possibly have gone anywhere besides offending a ****load of people for no reason, feel free to tell me. I will also ask another mod to look over this thread and re-instate the original posts if they feel I was wrong. But I really don't feel I was.

[ThriceShy]

Incredible that my posts were deleted. They were only links to two relevant news articles in the IBTimes and the DailyMail.

The censorship on here is unbelievable.

[Northern Monkey]

No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong.

Alright then.Can't wait until they include women in the Worlds Strongest Man competition.They can just call it Worlds Strongest Person so as not to be sexist.Maybe we'll get a female champion in the first year?

[Vicky.]

Incredible that my posts were deleted. They were only links to two relevant news articles in the IBTimes and the DailyMail.

The censorship on here is unbelievable.

As the rest of the convo was deleted, the links on their own would make no sense...and would appear that you are randomly bringing up pedohpiles in a thread about gay adoption...

[Northern Monkey]

For the record as one of my posts vanished.
I do not agree with Winston about gay couples adopting being "child abuse".
I think that is an extreme view and is innaccurate.Do i think same sex parents are ideal?No but i would'nt stop them adopting as there alot of kids that need homes and "not ideal" does'nt necessarily mean bad.

[Beso]

If your going to belittle someone about their intellect then at least spell paedo correctly fgs.

Still stand by my point about paedophiles being devious enough that two male ones would and have got together in order to gain a child by posing as a gay couple so they could adopt.

Considering paedophiles spend years grooming a victim i find it astonishing that you mock my point about them being devious enough to do this.

[ThriceShy]

As the rest of the convo was deleted, the links on their own would make no sense...and would appear that you are randomly bringing up pedohpiles in a thread about gay adoption...

The thread is about winston's view that gay adoption is child abuse. Paedophilia could not be more relevant to the thread. And the articles I linked to clearly showed gay couples being convicted of abusing the kids they adopted.

It is purely censorship to remove those posts.

[Vicky.]

If your going to belittle someone about their intellect then at least spell paedo correctly fgs.

Still stand by my point about paedophiles being devious enough that two male ones would and have got together in order to gain a child by posing as a gay couple so they could adopt.

Considering paedophiles spend years grooming a victim i find it astonishing that you mock my point about them being devious enough to do this.

I don't mock the point at all :conf: I don't doubt that it may happen sometimes...

I just think that random discussions about paedophilia have no place in a thread about gay adoption. As I said I have now asked others to look over the thread, if they disagree and think it is natural to link gay adoption with paedophilia, the posts will be reinstated.

[ThriceShy]

If your going to belittle someone about their intellect then at least spell paedo correctly fgs.

Still stand by my point about paedophiles being devious enough that two male ones would and have got together in order to gain a child by posing as a gay couple so they could adopt.

Considering paedophiles spend years grooming a victim i find it astonishing that you mock my point about them being devious enough to do this.

It happens a lot as my censored links demonstrated.

[Vicky.]

The thread is about winston's view that gay adoption is child abuse. Paedophilia could not be more relevant to the thread. And the articles I linked to clearly showed gay couples being convicted of abusing the kids they adopted.

It is purely censorship to remove those posts.

Fine. I can live with that

As I said I have asked this to be looked over anyway.

[AnnieK]

Anyone who has been through or even looked into adoption will know what a long and intrusive procedure it is. It is not that easy to be approved, you have to go through all manner of checks, panels, interviews, probing and quite insulting at times questioning. Your whole life becomes transparent and looked into....anyone who goes through this process and are approved (same sex, couples or single people) have to prove, prove and double prove that they are completely committed so the child placed will have a balanced, secure and loving home. Plus, I would bet my life that all same sex couple or single parents have close friends and family members of the opposite sex who will each play their part in the upbringing of a child.

In short, anyone who goes through the process regardless or race, gender or sexual orientation deserves some respect IMO and are equally capable of raising a loved, wanted and balanced child

[Beso]

As the rest of the convo was deleted, the links on their own would make no sense...and would appear that you are randomly bringing up pedohpiles in a thread about gay adoption...

A thread about winstons views that gay adoption is child abuse, not just gay adoption.

[ThriceShy]

Well I will nail my colours to the mast. I agree with Winston. I think a child has the right to have a mother. Just my opinion. And nobody has the right to tell me I am not entitled to it.

I thought Winston handled himself impeccably.

[Firewire]

Well I will nail my colours to the mast. I agree with Winston. I think a child has the right to have a mother. Just my opinion. And nobody has the right to tell me I am not entitled to it.

I thought Winston handled himself impeccably.

You may agree with that but how can you agree with it being likened to child abuse? Children are genuinely abused every day. It's mocking real child abuse to think that having gay parents is child abuse.

[Beso]

I don't mock the point at all :conf: I don't doubt that it may happen sometimes...

I just think that random discussions about paedophilia have no place in a thread about gay adoption. As I said I have now asked others to look over the thread, if they disagree and think it is natural to link gay adoption with paedophilia, the posts will be reinstated.

Well you did say "this is the level of intellect"

But i accept your decision, and thank you for looking into it.

[Vicky.]

http://i63.tinypic.com/dy94kp.png

Not sure if this will show big enough to read..but its the best I can do. If the posts are re-instated, fair enough. I have asked for someone else to look at it anyway...

I am done here...can't believe theres a kickoff about this tbh. I honestly thought it would be understood why that link was deemed offensive and inflammatory :shrug:

[Jamie89]

Alright then.Can't wait until they include women in the Worlds Strongest Man competition.They can just call it Worlds Strongest Person so as not to be sexist.Maybe we'll get a female champion in the first year?

Is this somehow meant to be reasoning as to why same sex couples can't provide as good an upbringing as a straight couple? I don't get it.

Still stand by my point about paedophiles being devious enough that two male ones would and have got together in order to gain a child by posing as a gay couple so they could adopt.

The gross insinuation in this thread that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt because they might secretly be paedophiles... it just amazes me that some people's minds work like that. I actually feel really sorry for anyone who thinks like that. AnnieK made a great point about the adoption procedure. I happen to know a single gay man who has adopted a child and they dug into every aspect of his life and his past, and not only his but his family's and those close to him. This whole discussion is crazy tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am amazed that they let paedos adopt babies

whether the babies are gay or not


what is the world coming to?

[Beso]

Is this somehow meant to be reasoning as to why same sex couples can't provide as good an upbringing as a straight couple? I don't get it.



The gross insinuation in this thread that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt because they might secretly be paedophiles... it just amazes me that some people's minds work like that. I actually feel really sorry for anyone who thinks like that. AnnieK made a great point about the adoption procedure. I happen to know a single gay man who has adopted a child and they dug into every aspect of his life and his past, and not only his but his family's and those close to him. This whole discussion is crazy tbh.

No mate its about paedophiles being devious bastards who will, and have used gay adoption as a loophole to abuse..its the system that needs looked into to ensure that it is impossible for them to do it, because so far some have managed to fool the authorities. Of course gay couples should be allowed adopt its crazy to suggest otherwise.

I would like to see the questioning, i mean is it as simple as are you a paedophile?

[Northern Monkey]

Is this somehow meant to be reasoning as to why same sex couples can't provide as good an upbringing as a straight couple? I don't get it.

It was a direct reply to this post by Kizzy -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
"No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong."

My point being that men and women both have different strengths.It's nice to think that each gender can be as good at everything and sex plays no role.However it is innacurate.For instance boys have a shorter attention span when learning.They thrive more with shorter lesson times wheras girls are fine with longer or shorter classes.The genders are different no matter whether we want them to be or not.
Women can provide a certain emotional support to children that men generally don't.Kids respond differently to women than men.There are certain things a kid might feel more comfortable telling their mum or dad.

[jet]

Well I will nail my colours to the mast. I agree with Winston. I think a child has the right to have a mother. Just my opinion. And nobody has the right to tell me I am not entitled to it.

I thought Winston handled himself impeccably.

But that isn't the issue. The issue is that Winston thinks same sex adoption is akin to child abuse. How is it abuse when the couple have to go through a harrowing selection process in order to give a child a loving home?

[ThriceShy]

But that isn't the issue. The issue is that Winston thinks same sex adoption is akin to child abuse. How is it abuse when the couple have to go through a harrowing selection process in order to give a child a loving home?

I think depriving a child of a mother is abusive.

[chuff me dizzy]

I think depriving a child of a mother is abusive.

A child needs a Mother and a Father, totally agree

[ThriceShy]

A child needs a Mother and a Father, totally agree

Oh noes. We will have Emma Willis telling us off like naughty children now! We are pariahs.:laugh:

Winston's opinion is probably shared by at least half the country. hence why he got more votes than nancy and they had to fix it. It isn't an unreasonable opinion whatsoever.

The way he was being treated you would have thought he had said Jimmy Savile was a misunderstood good guy.

[Northern Monkey]

A child needs a Mother and a Father, totally agree

Same:thumbs:

[LukeB]

A child needs a Mother and a Father, totally agree



A child don't need a mother and father, a child needs parent(s) yes but it can be two fathers/two mothers/only a father/only a mother/mother and father..why do they need a father and mother? A child would be loved just as much with anyone tbh.

[chuff me dizzy]

A child don't need a mother and father, a child needs parent(s) yes but it can be two fathers/two mothers/only a father/only a mother/mother and father..why do they need a father and mother? A child would be loved just as much with anyone tbh.

Not in my life it can't ,A child needs a Mother and a Father

[Beso]

But that isn't the issue. The issue is that Winston thinks same sex adoption is akin to child abuse. How is it abuse when the couple have to go through a harrowing selection process in order to give a child a loving home?

But, as shown last night that harrowing selection process doesnt always work.

[ThriceShy]

Not in my life it can't ,A child needs a Mother and a Father

Children have had mothers and fathers since humans evolved. It is the natural way of the world.

The leftist media want to destroy the family unit and heroes like Winston resist it.

[Northern Monkey]

A child don't need a mother and father, a child needs parent(s) yes but it can be two fathers/two mothers/only a father/only a mother/mother and father..why do they need a father and mother? A child would be loved just as much with anyone tbh.

Love is only a part of bringing up a child.It is a whole lot more complicated than just showing them love.Only having one gender to look up to and learn from gives them a very one sided view of the world and does'nt give them the emotional balance that a mother and father give them.There is no replacement for a mother and father,Just less ideal substitutes.

[Kizzy]

Alright then.Can't wait until they include women in the Worlds Strongest Man competition.They can just call it Worlds Strongest Person so as not to be sexist.Maybe we'll get a female champion in the first year?

How do you equate that to child rearing?

[Northern Monkey]

How do you equate that to child rearing?

I don't,I equate it directly to your point
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong."

[Kizzy]

It was a direct reply to this post by Kizzy -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
"No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong."

My point being that men and women both have different strengths.It's nice to think that each gender can be as good at everything and sex plays no role.However it is innacurate.For instance boys have a shorter attention span when learning.They thrive more with shorter lesson times wheras girls are fine with longer or shorter classes.The genders are different no matter whether we want them to be or not.
Women can provide a certain emotional support to children that men generally don't.Kids respond differently to women than men.There are certain things a kid might feel more comfortable telling their mum or dad.

Again that is a socialisation issue, I just don't subscribe to the whole men are from mars women are from venus ethos.

[Kizzy]

I don't,I equate it directly to your point
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
No, individuals have their strengths and weaknesses, collectively genders are neither weak nor strong."

You have taken that comment far too literally :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Not this could make a decent serious debates thread..the does a child need two parents thing. and why. Personally I don't think they do, plenty of people I know have been brought up just fine with single parents (mums and dads alike). I do not know anyone who has gay parents but I assume its the same for them.

[Kizzy]

Anyone who has been through or even looked into adoption will know what a long and intrusive procedure it is. It is not that easy to be approved, you have to go through all manner of checks, panels, interviews, probing and quite insulting at times questioning. Your whole life becomes transparent and looked into....anyone who goes through this process and are approved (same sex, couples or single people) have to prove, prove and double prove that they are completely committed so the child placed will have a balanced, secure and loving home. Plus, I would bet my life that all same sex couple or single parents have close friends and family members of the opposite sex who will each play their part in the upbringing of a child.

In short, anyone who goes through the process regardless or race, gender or sexual orientation deserves some respect IMO and are equally capable of raising a loved, wanted and balanced child

Great post Annie :)

[Northern Monkey]

You have taken that comment far too literally :laugh:

It is the same principal in all walks of life.Strengths and weaknesses.

[bots]

Its an interesting subject for sure, and just to provide a little abstraction. There have been plenty animals in the wild that have been adopted and reared by other parents, be they animal or human with quite spectacular results.

[jet]

But, as shown last night that harrowing selection process doesnt always work.

It doesn't always work with opposite sex couples either. They can abuse children too. Nothings perfect. The point is they try to match a child with parents he/she will thrive with and be loved by, they just don't give them away nilly willy. I doubt very much that many paedophiles would pretend to be gay and go through that whole lengthy process to get a child to abuse. Just because it's happened a few times doesn't mean it's worth discussing. It's not because it's not an issue that is at all prevalent.

[jet]

Love is only a part of bringing up a child.It is a whole lot more complicated than just showing them love.Only having one gender to look up to and learn from gives them a very one sided view of the world and does'nt give them the emotional balance that a mother and father give them.There is no replacement for a mother and father,Just less ideal substitutes.

Well, as my father left my mother when I was just a few weeks old, I can categorically state that despite growing up fatherless, I'm very well balanced, thank you very much. :tongue:

[Josy]

But is that not just in your eyes? Or whoever deleted them. Cant you put them back up and let the forum users decide?

As far as im aware there was no insulting. It is a subject i and many on here feel very strongly about.
No it isn't just in Vicky's eyes.

Having read through the thread including the deleted comments I agree that the debate had turned offensive and inflammatory, others were also offended by it going by the reports.

[LukeB]

Love is only a part of bringing up a child.It is a whole lot more complicated than just showing them love.Only having one gender to look up to and learn from gives them a very one sided view of the world and does'nt give them the emotional balance that a mother and father give them.There is no replacement for a mother and father,Just less ideal substitutes.

A child being brought up by a single parent doesn't mean anything, I know loads who have brought up by a single parent and they have the same view as people who have two parents.

[Beso]

It doesn't always work with same sex couples either. They can abuse children too. Nothings perfect. The point is they try to match a child with parents he/she will thrive with and be loved by, they just don't give them away nilly willy. I doubt very much that many paedophiles would pretend to be gay and go through that whole lengthy process to get a child to abuse. Just because it's happened a few times doesn't mean it's worth discussing. It's not because it's not an issue that is at all prevalent.

The fact that it fails once is enough for me to find it far more of an important subject to discuss than anything else mentioned in this thread. But each to their own.

[chuff me dizzy]

It is the same principal in all walks of life.Strengths and weaknesses.

Children need the balance of a female and male parent

[chuff me dizzy]

A child being brought up by a single parent doesn't mean anything, I know loads who have brought up by a single parent and they have the same view as people who have two parents.

Being brought up by a single parent is totally different to same sex parents

[LukeB]

Being brought up by a single parent is totally different to same sex parents

Same sex parents won't effect the child either :shrug:

[Beso]

No it isn't just in Vicky's eyes.

Having read through the thread including the deleted comments I agree that the debate had turned offensive and inflammatory, others were also offended by it going by the reports.


Even after it was explained that no one was linking gay couples to paedophilia.:shrug:

May as well delete the whole thread then if we cant discuss all aspects of winstons comments.:sleep:

[chuff me dizzy]

Same sex parents won't effect the child either :shrug:

Load of rubbish

[Niamh.]

Load of rubbish


How will they effect the child then?

[LukeB]

Load of rubbish

How? why is it any different.. because they are gay/lesbian? who imo should be treated the same as straight because everyone is equal.

[Josy]

Even after it was explained that no one was linking gay couples to paedophilia.:shrug:

May as well delete the whole thread then if we cant discuss all aspects of winstons comments.[emoji99]
No need to delete the whole thread I'm sure most are capable of taking part in debates without being offensive at the same time.

[ThriceShy]

No need to delete the whole thread I'm sure most are capable of taking part in debates without being offensive at the same time.

Offence is taken, not given.

[Josy]

Offence is taken, not given.
Oh it's given plenty by some.

[Beso]

No need to delete the whole thread I'm sure most are capable of taking part in debates without being offensive at the same time.

No one was being offensive last night but look what happened.

[Northern Monkey]

A child being brought up by a single parent doesn't mean anything, I know loads who have brought up by a single parent and they have the same view as people who have two parents.

So you are saying they would have been exactly the same with a mum and dad.I disagree,Upbringing undoubtedly has an impact on adulthood.Nurture plays a role just as nature does.

[jet]

The fact that it fails once is enough for me to find it far more of an important subject to discuss than anything else mentioned in this thread. But each to their own.

Oops. That first line was meant to say 'opposite sex couples'.
I think you are just looking for something, anything, to beat gay couples wanting to adopt with. IMO. :shrug:

[Josy]

No one was being offensive last night but look what happened.
They were though.

You asked why the posts were deleted and you were answered by 2 of us so can you stop derailing the thread and stick to the original discussion now.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

So you are saying they would have been exactly the same with a mum and dad.I disagree,Upbringing undoubtedly has an impact on adulthood.Nurture plays a role just as nature does.

Of course it would have an impact- not a negative one though...

[chuff me dizzy]

How will they effect the child then?

You've got children, you really should know the answer

[Ammi]

So you are saying they would have been exactly the same with a mum and dad.I disagree,Upbringing undoubtedly has an impact on adulthood.Nurture plays a role just as nature does.

..of course, but why would it bring any negative qualities in parenting from a same sex couple, that couldn't be there in a male/female parenting situation ..?...

[LukeB]

So you are saying they would have been exactly the same with a mum and dad.I disagree,Upbringing undoubtedly has an impact on adulthood.Nurture plays a role just as nature does.

Makes an impact but not an negative one :shrug:

[Niamh.]

You've got children, you really should know the answer


Yes I have 2 very well adjusted open minded children who have no issue what so ever with homosexuality. I believe, as a mother that all kids need is love, stability and attention from their parent/s

[Beso]

They were though.

You asked why the posts were deleted and you were answered by 2 of us so can you stop derailing the thread and stick to the original discussion now.

Fair enough, I would like proof of someone being offensive though if you're going to toss that accusation about.

[ThriceShy]

Oh it's given plenty by some.

Nope, it is only ever taken, by definition. It is something the reader does, not the publisher.

My two posts that were removed were simply links to news outlets. If people take offence at that then they have a problem.

Will you be removing anything that anyone is offended by?

[Kizzy]

It is the same principal in all walks of life.Strengths and weaknesses.

Well no, I meant strong as in character you took it to mean physical displays of brute strength for some reason.

[LukeB]

Yes I have 2 very well adjusted open minded children who have no issue what so ever with homosexuality. I believe, as a mother that all kids need is love, stability and attention from their parent/s

:clap1:

[Vicky.]

The only way I can see having same sex parents as affecting the child is because the child will be more of a target for bullying. I believe this has been discussed on here before too.

I do not think same sex adoption should not happen because of this, I mean kids are bullied for all sorts of reasons anyway. Plus once its more common for gay couples to have kids, it will be less of an 'issue'. But I am just pointing out the only way I can see for it to affect a child. Unless there is more I am missing?

[Firewire]

The only way I can see having same sex parents as affecting the child is because the child will be more of a target for bullying. I believe this has been discussed on here before too.

I do not think same sex adoption should not happen because of this, I mean kids are bullied for all sorts of reasons anyway. Plus once its more common for gay couples to have kids, it will be less of an 'issue'. But I am just pointing out the only way I can see for it to affect a child. Unless there is more I am missing?

And if it's a baby that's adopted it won't be able to drink its mother's breast milk but that's about it

[JoshBB]

You've got children, you really should know the answer

Well clearly Niamh doesn't, and neither do the rest of us... so why don't you back up your claims with some actual argument rather than spouting ignorance and ad hominem attacks.

[Vicky.]

Nope, it is only ever taken, by definition. It is something the reader does, not the publisher.

My two posts that were removed were simply links to news outlets. If people take offence at that then they have a problem.

Will you be removing anything that anyone is offended by?

I have already explained that yours were not deleted because they were offensive, but because the rest of that line of conversation had been deleted so in context of the thread, the links would make no sense and it would look like you randomly posted links about paedophiles for no reason?

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes I have 2 very well adjusted open minded children who have no issue what so ever with homosexuality. I believe, as a mother that all kids need is love, stability and attention from their parent/s

And I have 4 children all of the same ilk ,but they need me AND their father to have the balanced life they have

[Ammi]

The only way I can see having same sex parents as affecting the child is because the child will be more of a target for bullying. I believe this has been discussed on here before too.

I do not think same sex adoption should not happen because of this, I mean kids are bullied for all sorts of reasons anyway. Plus once its more common for gay couples to have kids, it will be less of an 'issue'. But I am just pointing out the only way I can see for it to affect a child. Unless there is more I am missing?


..indeed, children can be bullied for many reasons regardless of who their parents are and I have never found in our school, any child being specifically bullied because their parents are gay..in some cases, a curiosity has been provoked because children are naturally curious of many things...but that's a good thing, I think because it's an opportunity to explain, different types of families, which they learn about anyway...a child questioning is a good thing and dispels prejudice in their lives...

[Vicky.]

And if it's a baby that's adopted it won't be able to drink its mother's breast milk but that's about it

I guess, but even if the baby wasn't adopted there is no guarantee it would be breastfeeding anyway. And if a heterosexual couple/single person adopted the child it wouldn't be drinking its mothers breastmilk either.

I just fail to see any reason why same sex parents would affect the child...I am trying to but I haven't even seen a reason posted yet besides 'a child needs a mother and a father' :shrug:

[Beso]

You are just being ridiculous now.

In your eyes, anyway can you re post that link you posted last night as i was half way through reading it but went for a coffee and couldnt finish it cause it was deleted.:blush:

[Firewire]

I guess, but even if the baby wasn't adopted there is no guarantee it would be breastfeeding anyway. And if a heterosexual couple/single person adopted the child it wouldn't be drinking its mothers breastmilk either.

I just fail to see any reason why same sex parents would affect the child...I am trying to but I haven't even seen a reason posted yet besides 'a child needs a mother and a father' :shrug:

I agree with you I was just trying to think of a reason

[Vicky.]

I agree with you I was just trying to think of a reason

Oh yeah..well so far we have

the kid may be bullied
the kid will not be able to drink its mothers breastmilk

Anymore? :laugh:

[Shaun]

The kid will have nothing to spend money on for Mothers Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fist:

[AnnieK]

The kid will have nothing to spend money on for Mothers Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fist:

Sand have to buy two fathers days gifts :fist: Poor deprived child

[Firewire]

The kid will have nothing to spend money on for Mothers Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fist:

people won't be able to make "your mama" jokes!!!

[Vicky.]

The kid will have nothing to spend money on for Mothers Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fist:

Or have to spend double on mothers day!!!111!!! Equality ftw shaun :fist:

[JoshBB]

The poor child will either have no house or no love.. because everyone knows all males go to work and all females stay at home :bawling:

[Kizzy]

The child will grow up too strong as men go around lifting things all the time.

[Beso]

The poor child will either have no house or no love.. because everyone knows all males go to work and all females stay at home :bawling:
Now thats offensive.

[Beso]

The child will grow up too strong as men go around lifting things all the time.

As is this.

[jet]

In your eyes, anyway can you re post that link you posted last night as i was half way through reading it but went for a coffee and couldnt finish it cause it was deleted.:blush:

I'll PM it to you if I can find it.

[Beso]

I'll PM it to you if I can find it.

Thanks jet, it was a right good read.

[nonstop]

No child has a choice on who it's parents are biological or adopted

/endthread

[cheapbbfan]

No child has a choice on who it's parents are biological or adopted

not biological, but a child can have a choice in adoption