£2 for hot water and lemon

[Kizzy]

Is the customer always right? In a blow struck for restaurateurs and front-of-house staff everywhere, a manager at Bennett’s Cafe and Bistro in York recently left a robust reply to a complaint left by a customer on TripAdvisor. The review – which, for some inexplicable reason, has been taken down – was picked up on Twitter where it has divided opinion.

The customer, Hannah C, said she went out for “afternoon tea” on a “tight budget” and complained about being charged £2 for “hot water and a thin slice of lemon”. The restaurant was, she said, “over-priced” and home to “very rude staff”.

The review

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/14/09/bennetts-web.jpg

The cafe response
I’m sorry that you feel that you were “ripped off” and I’ll try to explain why you weren’t. You entered the cafe and the waiter showed you to your seat, gave you a menu, waited for a time and then took your order. He entered it into the till, collected a cup, saucer and spoon and took them into the kitchen. There, he selected a knife, chopping board, got a lemon from the fridge, cut off a slice and put it in the cup. Then, he returned to the dining room, drew off the necessary hot water and carried the cup to your table. When you were leaving, he printed off your bill, took it to you, processed your credit card payment and cashed off the till. After you left, he cleared away your cup, saucer and spoon, took them into the kitchen, washed and dried them, along with the chopping board and knife and put away the lemon. Then, returning to the dining room, he restacked the cup, saucer and spoon, wiped down your table and replaced the menu, awaiting the next customer.

That’s at least 2-3 minutes work for the waiter.

The cost of overheads for the business, ie rent, business rates, electricity costs, bank charges, etc, works out at £27.50 per hour of trading. I pay my colleagues a decent living wage and after taking into account holiday pay, national insurance and non-productive time prior to opening and after closing, the waiter who served you costs me £12.50 per hour. Therefore, together the cost is £40 per hour or 67p per minute, meaning that the cost of providing you with 2-3 minutes of service was £1.34 – £2.00. Then the government add on VAT at 20% which takes the cost of that cup of fruit infusion to between £1.60 and £2.40 irrespective of whether you had a teabag costing one and a half pence or a slice of lemon costing five pence.

I have to pay my suppliers otherwise the facilities won’t be available to other people who use them in the future. I accept that it makes the price of a cuppa in a city centre cafe look expensive compared to the one you make at home but unfortunately that’s the cruel reality of life. It’s actually the facilities that cost the money, far more so than the ingredients. Perhaps, the rudeness that you perceived in me was triggered by the disrespect that I perceived in you by your presumption that you could use our facilities and be waited on for free.

With whom do you agree?

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2016/jan/14/is-2-a-fair-price-for-a-cup-of-hot-water-and-lemon?CMP=fb_gu

[arista]

"That’s at least 2-3 minutes work for the waiter."


Yes I back there Manager

[Cherie]

Completely agree with the cafe owner here, 2 quid seems cheap to sit in a warm cafe being served

[Kizzy]

With the amount of competition in York I would say that was a big mistake. People expect excellent customer service and to ruin that experience was mean and unnecessary.
Who's to say they wouldn't have gone in regularly if not for that incident and spent lot's more in the future? As it stands he's lost their business, those who overheard the exchange and many who agree with her.
I appreciate he is a business and I'm not suggesting there was not a small charge but £2 is excessive and the subsequent humiliation unwarranted.

[Jamie89]

At first I thought what a ridiculous price for hot water and lemon, but hats off to the manager for that response, can't really be argued with :laugh: And he has a very good point. If the lady just wanted hot water and lemon, there was nothing stopping her from buying a lemon from the supermarket, going home and boiling a kettle. But she wanted to use someone else's services, so why shouldn't they charge her for that :shrug:

[user104658]

The customer is NOT always right... and in this case the owner's explanation (you pay for the service, not the ingredients) of why it costs that amount is perfectly justified. My immediate thought before I even read it was "She wouldn't have had a problem paying £2 for tea, and tea is as cheap as if not cheaper than a lemon".

On the other hand, it does sound like the waiter was rude and dismissive at the time -- IF -- her account of what happened is accurate. Which it may not be - in my experience these "incidents" seem to somehow become worse and worse each time they're recounted by the customer...

Also, best practice for the owner would have been not to "rise" to the bad review. Keep it simple and professional. The irked customer is TRYING to annoy you... if you reply with a longwinded response like this (which is obviously passive-aggressive) you're just playing right into what they want from you. A clean, short, simple, cut'n'paste apology is essentially a way of saying "Yeah OK whatever :)" and getting away with it :hee:

[rubymoo]

If she was having other stuff, then i agree with the customer, lemon is usually free with a lemonade, and the hot water is already heated up and ready for hot drinks, so i do think it was a bit tight of the cafe not to oblige with a free drink, i know most places i've been offer it for free (as most people don't go to a cafe for hot water and lemon!), however the posher places have charged me for a hot water and lemon.

[user104658]

If she was having other stuff, then i agree with the customer, lemon is usually free with a lemonade, and the hot water is already heated up and ready for hot drinks, so i do think it was a bit tight of the cafe not to oblige with a free drink, i know most places i've been offer it for free (as most people don't go to a cafe for hot water and lemon!), however the posher places have charged me for a hot water and lemon.

I forgot to add this to my original post, but now that I know someone is here who can actually answer it...

WHY would anyone even want to drink hot water with a bit of lemon in it in the first place? :shrug:

[rubymoo]

I forgot to add this to my original post, but now that I know someone is here who can actually answer it...

WHY would anyone even want to drink hot water with a bit of lemon in it in the first place? :shrug:

:laugh:

It's good for digestion, refreshing, and full of vitamin C (and also deliciously warming on a cold day!)

[Cherie]

With the amount of competition in York I would say that was a big mistake. People expect excellent customer service and to ruin that experience was mean and unnecessary.
Who's to say they wouldn't have gone in regularly if not for that incident and spent lot's more in the future? As it stands he's lost their business, those who overheard the exchange and many who agree with her.
I appreciate he is a business and I'm not suggesting there was not a small charge but £2 is excessive and the subsequent humiliation unwarranted.

2 quid for a tea, two quid for boiling water and a slice of lemon, there is little cost difference in producing and serving both, if her budget was that tight she should have enquired as to the cost before ordering, I agree there was no need for rudeness then we don't know how rude the customer was to begin with, or the time of day or how many rude customers the waiter had dealt with already that day

[smudgie]

Can't see anything wrong with the charge, the manager was quite clear in his reply as well.
Service charge is quite a high percentage of any meal once if is broken down, plus the overheads.
Perhaps she would have been better for buying a bottle of water and sitting on a bench if she wanted to go cheap:shrug:

[user104658]

:laugh:

It's good for digestion, refreshing, and full of vitamin C (and also deliciously warming on a cold day!)

Yeah but you could just eat the lemon... waste of a good lemon slice, pouring hot water all over it.

(Yeah... I genuinely do like eating lemon. I've always loved sour stuff and it escalated. I can eat one like an orange :( )

[rubymoo]

Yeah but you could just eat the lemon... waste of a good lemon slice, pouring hot water all over it.

(Yeah... I genuinely do like eating lemon. I've always loved sour stuff and it escalated. I can eat one like an orange :( )

:laugh:

My daughter's the same, she loves lemon and eats it like an orange:shocked:

[Cherie]

This isn't you is it Kizzy you tight bitch :laugh:

[user104658]

Service charge is quite a high percentage of any meal once if is broken down, plus the overheads.

Exactly, especially soft drinks. A Starbucks coffee can be like £3 - yet if you have a coffee filter, you can buy a bag of coffee beans directly from Starbucks for £5 which easily makes 100+ coffees... so 5p a cup, maybe 15p at most if you include milk, sugar and electricity. Doesn't mean I begrudge paying for coffee when I'm out... you're paying for the time and the convenience of someone else making it for you.

[smudgie]

Exactly, especially soft drinks. A Starbucks coffee can be like £3 - yet if you have a coffee filter, you can buy a bag of coffee beans directly from Starbucks for £5 which easily makes 100+ coffees... so 5p a cup, maybe 15p at most if you include milk, sugar and electricity. Doesn't mean I begrudge paying for coffee when I'm out... you're paying for the time and the convenience of someone else making it for you.

Exactly TS, it's the pleasure and comfort of being waited on that you are paying for. Staff have to be paid.

[Kizzy]

The customer is NOT always right... and in this case the owner's explanation (you pay for the service, not the ingredients) of why it costs that amount is perfectly justified. My immediate thought before I even read it was "She wouldn't have had a problem paying £2 for tea, and tea is as cheap as if not cheaper than a lemon".

On the other hand, it does sound like the waiter was rude and dismissive at the time -- IF -- her account of what happened is accurate. Which it may not be - in my experience these "incidents" seem to somehow become worse and worse each time they're recounted by the customer...

Also, best practice for the owner would have been not to "rise" to the bad review. Keep it simple and professional. The irked customer is TRYING to annoy you... if you reply with a longwinded response like this (which is obviously passive-aggressive) you're just playing right into what they want from you. A clean, short, simple, cut'n'paste apology is essentially a way of saying "Yeah OK whatever :)" and getting away with it :hee:

If it was not accurate the response would have indicated this, it didn't.
Best practice would be to not try rip people off I say.
If she had been alone occupying a table then maybe that breakdown would be more justifiable, she wasn't.
Being a non drinker I find that when I go out I quite regularly ask for soda and cordial, the price I am charged varies from nothing to £1. Never experienced anything like that :/

[user104658]

Being a non drinker I find that when I go out I quite regularly ask for soda and cordial, the price I am charged varies from nothing to £1. Never experienced anything like that :/

Not seeing a huge difference between £1 and £2, especially when soda and cordial actually costs a bar basically nothing. It's literally worth about 2p.

[Cherie]

If it was not accurate the response would have indicated this, it didn't.
Best practice would be to not try rip people off I say.
If she had been alone occupying a table then maybe that breakdown would be more justifiable, she wasn't.
Being a non drinker I find that when I go out I quite regularly ask for soda and cordial, the price I am charged varies from nothing to £1. Never experienced anything like that :/

Yorks tea room are overpriced as it's a tourist trap, we got off the train from London at 9.30 am and there was a queue of people about a mile long waiting to get into Betty's Tea rooms, the prices were eye watering and it was mostly women, it made me embarrassed to be a woman to see them queuing in the cold to be ripped off

[Kizzy]

This isn't you is it Kizzy you tight bitch :laugh:

It could well have been to be fair Cherie, I'm not tight either.

[Kizzy]

Not seeing a huge difference between £1 and £2, especially when soda and cordial actually costs a bar basically nothing. It's literally worth about 2p.

Really? it's double for a start.
I thought that when I heard this lady was being charged £2 for something that in a lot of establishments is free...To wash your hands in.

[Cherie]

It could well have been to be fair Cherie, I'm not tight either.

Tbf Kizzy you would be the first one to voice concern over low wages, how do you balance that out if people are complaining about 2.00 to be served, in a hospital you would be charged that for a cup of tepid coffee from a machine

[bots]

Really? it's double for a start.
I thought that when I heard this lady was being charged £2 for something that in a lot of establishments is free...To wash your hands in.

It just means that other establishments are making their money on other items. Nothing is ever free even if it seems so :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Yorks tea room are overpriced as it's a tourist trap, we got off the train from London at 9.30 am and there was a queue of people about a mile long waiting to get into Betty's Tea rooms, the prices were eye watering and it was mostly women, it made me embarrassed to be a woman to see them queuing in the cold to be ripped off

The appeal of Bettys is the years of excellent products and customer service, I'd say this jumped up cafe could learn a thing or two from them.

[Josy]

2 quids about right to be fair to the cafe, I drink the same sometimes and it's always between 1 and 2 quid

[Kizzy]

Tbf Kizzy you would be the first one to voice concern over low wages, how do you balance that out if people are complaining about 2.00 to be served, in a hospital you would be charged that for a cup of tepid coffee from a machine

Not sure why or how you equate water to wages but meh, that is an upfront cost, you pay your money you take your choice.
There's an old Yorkshire saying 'you catch more flies with honey than sh*t'...great advice for businesses.

[Cherie]

Not sure why or how you equate water to wages but meh, that is an upfront cost, you pay your money you take your choice.
There's an old Yorkshire saying 'you catch more flies with honey than sh*t'...great advice for businesses.

How much could they pay their staff if they charged nothing for service :think:

[Kizzy]

How much could they pay their staff if they charged nothing for service :think:

Who suggested charging nothing? Not me, you best take that up with them.

[Cherie]

Who suggested charging nothing? Not me, you best take that up with them.

I don't need to, they say they pay their staff a decent living wage, to stay in business and provide employment they have to charge prices that will enable them to do this, 2 quid for a hot drink in a warm Cafe in the historic City of a York seems like a bargain to me

[Vicky.]

What a fuss about nothing, if you can't afford to eat/drink out, then don't do it.

[Kizzy]

I don't need to, they say they pay their staff a decent living wage, to stay in business and provide employment they have to charge prices that will enable them to do this, 2 quid for a hot drink in a warm Cafe in the historic City of a York seems like a bargain to me

Then we'll have to agree to disagree on that, my issue was the poor customer service too to be fair, personally I would have allowed a reduction in price due to inadequate signage and rectified it immediately... Job done everyone happy.

[Scarlett.]

Sounds like a fuddyduddy tbh, the signs are all there. Going into a cafe and ordering something pointless and (what she had hoped would be) cheap. Then proceeds to go on TripAdvisor. Doubt they'll miss her custom.

[Northern Monkey]

I forgot to add this to my original post, but now that I know someone is here who can actually answer it...

WHY would anyone even want to drink hot water with a bit of lemon in it in the first place? :shrug:

Before i read this i thought - "Who the **** drinks hot water with lemon unless they've got a cold?"

[Northern Monkey]

I go to York quite abit and pretty much everything is a little pricey compared with your average greasy spoon.It's a tourist city,It's to be expected.
Loved the response from the owner.It was very detailed and alot of thought went into it.
It just would'nt be worth offering water with lemon if he was only gonna charge a quid for it.What if nearly everyone one day went in and ordered water with a slice of lemon?It's not likely but possible.The cafe would barely cover its leccy bill nevermind paying staff.

[user104658]

Not sure why or how you equate water to wages but meh, that is an upfront cost, you pay your money you take your choice.
There's an old Yorkshire saying 'you catch more flies with honey than sh*t'...great advice for businesses.
False: flies love sh**.

[Kizzy]

False: flies love sh**.

Yes but they leave... when flies find honey they stay.

[user104658]

**** covered in honey would be your best bet. And doesn't that just sum up consumerism? :joker:

[Kizzy]

I go to York quite abit and pretty much everything is a little pricey compared with your average greasy spoon.It's a tourist city,It's to be expected.
Loved the response from the owner.It was very detailed and alot of thought went into it.
It just would'nt be worth offering water with lemon if he was only gonna charge a quid for it.What if nearly everyone one day went in and ordered water with a slice of lemon?It's not likely but possible.The cafe would barely cover its leccy bill nevermind paying staff.

It was pointless baseless waffle, I've been in some lovely places and they cater for everyone the £27.50 overheads per hour needs to be divided by the number of customers in the cafe at the time at which the complainant was in there too obv...

[Vicky.]

If she wanted a freebie, should have ordered a glass of tapwater.

Not sure if its the same in restaurants but when I worked in bars, we were not legally allowed to refuse free tapwater.

We usually gave free soda too. And cordial and water was only 20p which was often waived.

[Cherie]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree on that, my issue was the poor customer service too to be fair, personally I would have allowed a reduction in price due to inadequate signage and rectified it immediately... Job done everyone happy.

Yes we will our Kiz

[Anaesthesia]

:laugh:

My daughter's the same, she loves lemon and eats it like an orange:shocked:

I do too, including the peel. Yummy.

[Anaesthesia]

There's an old Yorkshire saying 'you catch more flies with honey than sh*t'...great advice for businesses.

Yup, my late father was a Yorkshireman. Learned much wisdom from him, and agree here there could have been a happy compromise.

[Anaesthesia]

Before i read this i thought - "Who the **** drinks hot water with lemon unless they've got a cold?"

people being "fashionable" and "healthy" :(

[user104658]

people being "fashionable" and "healthy" :(
Ewwww.

I'll take a full fat cappuccino and a slice of pizza.

[Kizzy]

people being "fashionable" and "healthy" :(

Listen, I haven't drunk nothing but vegetable juice for a week not to be fashionable or healthy :fist: I'm a hipster in training :laugh:

[Jake.]

if it was too expensive then she shouldn't have bought it

[kirklancaster]

I would have told the stupid idiot that if she returned the water and lemon would be free, but that there would be a £50 charge for the glass.

Reminds me of the joke about an opportunist scrounger who went into a bistro and asked; "How much is the vegetable soup?"

When told £3.00, he asked; "How much is the bread roll which is served with it?"?

When told the bread was free, he tried to order just 6 bread rolls.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i would jail anyone who drinks hot water and lemon
i mean

have a fkg word with yourself

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would have told the stupid idiot that if she returned the water and lemon would be free, but that there would be a £50 charge for the glass.

Reminds me of the joke about an opportunist scrounger who went into a bistro and asked; "How much is the vegetable soup?"

When told £3.00, he asked; "How much is the bread roll which is served with it?"?

When told the bread was free, he tried to order just 6 bread rolls.

:joker:

[arista]

Ewwww.

I'll take a full fat cappuccino and a slice of pizza.


How Nice

[Northern Monkey]

Once when i was pissed and had no money left i went and got a bag of scraps from the chippy.He gave me it and all.

[user104658]

i would jail anyone who drinks hot water and lemon
i mean

have a fkg word with yourself
:joker:

[Amy Jade]

She sounds like a whiney bitch to be honest, she basically wanted her tea for free and because she didn't get her own way she gave a bad review.

I hate customers who demand people lose their jobs, too - sounds like her server did nothing wrong. Next time she should buy the supplies herself and have her friends around hers

[Anaesthesia]

Listen, I haven't drunk nothing but vegetable juice for a week not to be fashionable or healthy :fist: I'm a hipster in training :laugh:

Haha, blimey...you must be crying out for a proper drink :love:

[Kizzy]

Haha, blimey...you must be crying out for a proper drink :love:

I mean juice and nothing else, apart from green tea... and hot water with lemon ;)

[lostalex]

The customer is RARELY right.