More Black stars Boycott Racist Oscars 2016

[arista]

This is Not Good for the Business
Spike


Ref: BBCWorld News Live


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/entertainment/oscars-boycott-spike-lee-jada-pinkett-smith-feat/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jada Pinkett Smith and Spike Lee announced they would not be attending the awards night on 28 February over a lack of diversity among nominees.

ie they are all white for the second year running


"We cannot support it and [I] mean no disrespect ... But, how is it possible for the second consecutive year all 20 contenders under the acting category are white? And let's not even get into the other branches," Lee wrote on Instagram. "Forty white actors in two years and no flava at all. We can't act?! WTF!!"

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/af942ce7f43267bfb6e4b2ae894c9ffb

“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/film/oscars-2016-spike-lee-jada-pinkett-smith-to-boycott-ceremony/news-story/ec1f3c0d06f3de760440629193553a3f

-----------------------------------


Just a coincidence or rampant racism?

[Mokka]

They aren't wrong.

There is a trend in Hollywood to make movies and tv look diverse by casting background non-speaking roles with a variety of race and colour...or making the side kick to the main character a person of colour, but leading roles are predominantly white. And speaking roles are predominantly white.... And roles that could give an actor or an actress the opportunity to win an award such as an Oscar...are given to white people.

Statistics have been calculated on this issue and the numbers don't lie.

[user104658]

It's more complicated than that, really. There is quite a bit of fairly well documented racism in Hollywood; but that's not to say that brilliant performances are overlooked for Oscars when they happen.

The problem is... stripped right back to the bare bones... for various cultural reasons, white people make up the biggest chunk of box office numbers. Therefore, more movies are made with higher budgets featuring a certain demographic of people, to engage a certain demographic in the audience.

Of course, this is circular: White people are more interested in Cinema because Cinema is mostly white... other racial groups are less likely to be as interested because they aren't represented... and then we go back to the reverse; they aren't represented because they aren't as interested. Turn turn turn turn turn.

Of course if you take it right back to the beginning of "the movies", it all began because the Silver Screen was basically all-white. But there's not really much you can do about history... it is what it is.

So, this statement:

“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

Is very true. But it's NOT because those execs and "gatekeepers" are racist. They don't decide to scrap shows or to not put money into making any film or show because they're "just racist". They scrap shows that aren't getting viewers and therefore aren't making money. It's that simple. If there's a show with a mainly black cast that's making a fortune then the execs are going to lap it up. If a show (any show) is failing then they'll pull the plug. ALL they care about is numbers and $$$.

[Jamie89]

The whole industry has a big problem where race is concerned, but it starts with casting. Boycotting the Oscars will bring attention to the problem, but if they really want to make a difference they'll need to do more than not spend one evening walking up and down a red carpet. Wasn't there a film recently, I think it was Exodus, where the whole cast was white (playing non-white characters).

The Oscars are just representing the fact that there are so few films that cast non-white actors, and it would be wrong for them to not recognise the actors that have done well over the past year (so I don't think they are inherently racist). Instead they, as a ceremony, are simply the end result of a problem, rather than being the cause of the problem.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Isnt it that if they cast the main characters as black they think they will lose money and so..

or is that just what TS said?

:think:

[user104658]

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

[Mokka]

But Jamie my friend, the Oscars are THE event for these celebrities each year... And boycott and protest are powerful tools used to bring an issue from the background to the forethought of people's minds, to encourage discussion and debate...like we are having here :wink:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

But if there has'nt been any Oscar worthy performances by black actors then what are they supposed to do?Drop an actor that has been nominated on merit just to seem PC?

[user104658]

Isnt it that if they cast the main characters as black they think they will lose money and so..

or is that just what TS said?

:think:

In fewer words, yeah :joker:. There are far fewer "bankable" lead actors from other ethnicities than white, is the sad fact. Will Smith has been a notable exception, occasionally Denzel Washington but he's more bankable in "secondary lead" supporting roles.

Like I said it's all about the dallarz$$$ for the moviemakers, they're not choosing their leads based on anything else. It's pure supply and demand. Maybe it does indicate some low-level subconscious racism amoungst "moviegoers", but like I said, it's more likely to do with the demographic. Enjoyment of movies is about escapism, wish-fulfillment, or empathy. The audience needs to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the characters for this to work well. It's easiest for people to put themselves in the shoes of "similar people".

[Niamh.]

He has a point

[Crimson Dynamo]

In fewer words, yeah :joker:. There are far fewer "bankable" lead actors from other ethnicities than white, is the sad fact. Will Smith has been a notable exception, occasionally Denzel Washington but he's more bankable in "secondary lead" supporting roles.

Like I said it's all about the dallarz$$$ for the moviemakers, they're not choosing their leads based on anything else. It's pure supply and demand. Maybe it does indicate some low-level subconscious racism amoungst "moviegoers", but like I said, it's more likely to do with the demographic. Enjoyment of movies is about escapism, wish-fulfillment, or empathy. The audience needs to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the characters for this to work well. It's easiest for people to put themselves in the shoes of "similar people".

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

[user104658]

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

:joker: ffs

Actually though, Morgan Freeman and Samuel L. Jackson are both prime examples of exactly what I was saying:

Both very successful, very well known actors. And both mainly... playing the "second lead" or a high-profile supporting role. I mean, there's "Snakes On A Plane" but... well...

[Mokka]

It's more complicated than that, really. There is quite a bit of fairly well documented racism in Hollywood; but that's not to say that brilliant performances are overlooked for Oscars when they happen.

The problem is... stripped right back to the bare bones... for various cultural reasons, white people make up the biggest chunk of box office numbers. Therefore, more movies are made with higher budgets featuring a certain demographic of people, to engage a certain demographic in the audience.

Of course, this is circular: White people are more interested in Cinema because Cinema is mostly white... other racial groups are less likely to be as interested because they aren't represented... and then we go back to the reverse; they aren't represented because they aren't as interested. Turn turn turn turn turn.

Of course if you take it right back to the beginning of "the movies", it all began because the Silver Screen was basically all-white. But there's not really much you can do about history... it is what it is.

So, this statement:

“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

Is very true. But it's NOT because those execs and "gatekeepers" are racist. They don't decide to scrap shows or to not put money into making any film or show because they're "just racist". They scrap shows that aren't getting viewers and therefore aren't making money. It's that simple. If there's a show with a mainly black cast that's making a fortune then the execs are going to lap it up. If a show (any show) is failing then they'll pull the plug. ALL they care about is numbers and $$$.

I think you nailed it with the problem being cyclical... But I also think of how these movies are not just released in America, but in markets all over the world where the culture is not predominantly white, but the movies still rake in the dollars... Because they're out of Hollywood specifically. Hollywood has the opportunity to set the media and the message for the world, and they choose to make it a message about white culture. Bollywood or the Asian market could never impact America the way that Hollywood does to their cinematic culture.

Also, I think on TV shows that were axed by networks for not reaching a large enough market due to ageism or race culture, and that have gone on to success on Netflix or non-network media
... And I wonder how much of the decision for whether a show gets made comes down to ad demographics, and 16-24 buying culture.

Also, most of the movies up for Oscars are not major box office smashes. You don't see Iron man or the Avengers up for awards... So you can't blame the box office on the choice for what passes by the execs in correlation to what is getting The Oscar buzz.

[Niamh.]

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

:hehe:


I agree though and I think more people should boycott it including some white actors

[user104658]

:hehe:


I agree though and I think more people should boycott it including some white actors
Wouldn't it be an absolutely huge statement if Leo himself boycotted :omgno:

[Niamh.]

Wouldn't it be an absolutely huge statement if Leo himself boycotted :omgno:

hahaha that would be amazing :laugh:

[Jamie89]

But Jamie my friend, the Oscars are THE event for these celebrities each year... And boycott and protest are powerful tools used to bring an issue from the background to the forethought of people's minds, to encourage discussion and debate...like we are having here :wink:

Yeah you're not wrong I suppose. I think I'm just being cynical about it making a real difference, because I imagine the bigwigs sitting in their offices counting all the money that the white actors have brought in, and it's hard to imagine things changing. It's definitely good for it to be in the spotlight though. And thinking about it actually, as much as I don't think the Oscars are to blame, there probably aren't many alternative routes that non-white actors can take to protest against the industry.

[user104658]

Also, I think on TV shows that were axed by networks for not reaching a large enough market due to ageism or race culture, and that have gone on to success on Netflix or non-network media
... And I wonder how much of the decision for whether a show gets made comes down to ad demographics, and 16-24 buying culture.
.

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

[Mokka]

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

I'm with you 100% here

[Niamh.]

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

TV Shows have come on so much in the last few years, I was always bug into movies more than TV Shows but the quality has gotten so good the last few years, I'm definitely a bigger TV fan these days

[bots]

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

I thought Morgan Freeman was God in a suit :think:

[Mokka]

I thought Morgan Freeman was God in a suit :think:

You aren't wrong!

[the truth]

Hollywood even tries to delete different accents, everyone must sounds American, English preferably....bbc is worse.

[Kizzy]

Was talking with my daughter a bit ago about how many films had a black protagonist...
We could only think of space jam :/

[arista]

Was talking with my daughter a bit ago about how many films had a black protagonist...
We could only think of space jam :/


Great Film
Blacks and Cartoons
mega budget

[Niamh.]

Was talking with my daughter a bit ago about how many films had a black protagonist...
We could only think of space jam :/

I am Legend and all Will Smiths films, any film Denzel Washington is in

[MB.]

I don't believe in blacks and cartoons integrating tbh Arista

[Mokka]

I don't believe in blacks and cartoons integrating tbh Arista

:joker::joker:

[user104658]

I am Legend and all Will Smiths films, any film Denzel Washington is in

Yeah like I said before, Will Smith seems to be one major exception. Denzel Washington has fronted a few films, but more often than not he's in major supporting roles, rather than the protagonist.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though in my opinion, for the actor anyway. Some (maybe even most?) of the greatest acting performances are supporting roles.

[Niamh.]

Yeah like I said before, Will Smith seems to be one major exception. Denzel Washington has fronted a few films, but more often than not he's in major supporting roles, rather than the protagonist.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though in my opinion, for the actor anyway. Some (maybe even most?) of the greatest acting performances are supporting roles.

It's still not alot only thinking of two black actors either. The real test is thinking of films with a black female protagonist lol cos not only is Hollywood racist they're also pretty sexist

[arista]

I don't believe in blacks and cartoons integrating tbh Arista


In that Year
he did love that Contract
as it gave him a Lead Roll
with Cartoons


Better Than Feck All
back then
in Spunky 1996

Feel The Force

[user104658]

It's still not alot only thinking of two black actors either. The real test is thinking of films with a black female protagonist lol cos not only is Hollywood racist they're also pretty sexist

I was going to say, it's not that long ago that it was the same for female actors. I'd say that's at least beginning to change quite a bit though; quite a few recent films with female leads. Not that long ago it was relatively unheard of.

[Niamh.]

I was going to say, it's not that long ago that it was the same for female actors. I'd say that's at least beginning to change quite a bit though; quite a few recent films with female leads. Not that long ago it was relatively unheard of.

Yeah and again bringing TV series back into the discussion, they're leagues ahead of the film industry in regards to more equal representation of both black actors and women imo

[Livia]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?

[Mokka]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?

That isn't the message here... No one is asking for this

[Niamh.]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?

There probably wasn't Livia but the point is that there probably wasn't because there isn't the roles there for them just like women had a major fight with Hollywood in recent years to actually have half decent and not just the love interest or whatever role (and i say it's getting there but it's still not 100% there yet either imo)

[Cherie]

I am Legend and all Will Smiths films, any film Denzel Washington is in

Morgan Freeman

[Livia]

There probably wasn't Livia but the point is that there probably wasn't because there isn't the roles there for them just like women had a major fight with Hollywood in recent years to actually have half decent and not just the love interest or whatever role (and i say it's getting there but it's still not 100% there yet either imo)

Women have been saying for decades that there aren't any good roles for women over 30. I remember Goldie Hawn said that the three stages of womanhood in movies are: Babe, District Attorney and Driving Miss Daisy. She was right. I don't see any women boycotting the Academy Awards.

[Niamh.]

Morgan Freeman

Google his films and pick me out the ones where he's the Protagonist and not just a strong supporting actor, as TS says

[Livia]

Maybe there aren't enough black screen writers.

[Cherie]

Google his films and pick me out the ones where he's the Protagonist and not just a strong supporting actor, as TS says

Shawshank? Not sure he is the only one I remember

[Niamh.]

Women have been saying for decades that there aren't any good roles for women over 30. I remember Goldie Hawn said that the three stages of womanhood in movies are: Babe, District Attorney and Driving Miss Daisy. She was right. I don't see any women boycotting the Academy Awards.

I have seen plenty of women bring it up over and over and over again though and it is finally changing. So what if they never boycotted the awards though anyway, they did it a different way, so?

[Niamh.]

Shawshank? Not sure he is the only one I remember

Tim Robbins in my opinion (eventhough Morgan Freeman narrated it) the story was about Tim Robbins character

[arista]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?



But it was under the Wrong Studio
Netflix

So Warner Bros and Sony Blocked it


Netflix is a outsider to them
they do not like them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beasts_of_No_Nation_%28film%29

[Livia]

Google his films and pick me out the ones where he's the Protagonist and not just a strong supporting actor, as TS says

Invictus, Seven, Bucket List, 5 Flights Up, Olympus Has Fallen, Along Came A Spider, Kiss The Girls, Sum of all Fears, The Magic of Belle Isle, Hard Rain, Thick as Thieves, Amistad, Outbreak............................

[Cherie]

Tim Robbins in my opinion (eventhough Morgan Freeman narrated it) the story was about Tim Robbins character

He won the Oscar for best actor in a leading role though, also Driving Miss Daisy, who are the black actors in vogue at the moment I don't watch a lot of movies so I have no idea, do they deserve a nomination? If they do then it needs investigating, if they don't then it doesn't :shrug:

[Cherie]

Invictus, Seven, Bucket List, 5 Flights Up, Olympus Has Fallen, Along Came A Spider, Kiss The Girls, Sum of all Fears, The Magic of Belle Isle, Hard Rain, Thick as Thieves, Amistad, Outbreak............................

Not heard of half of these I'm no film buff :hehe:

[Niamh.]

Invictus, Seven, Bucket List, 5 Flights Up, Olympus Has Fallen, Along Came A Spider, Kiss The Girls, Sum of all Fears, The Magic of Belle Isle, Hard Rain, Thick as Thieves, Amistad, Outbreak............................

Invictus - haven't seen
Seven - Brad Pitt he was imo
The Bucket List - Jack Nicholson was imo
5 flights up - haven't seen
Olympus Has Fallen - Gerard Butler
Along Came A Spider - I'll give you
Kiss the Girls - I'll give you
Sum of all Fears - Ben Affleck
The Magic of Belle Isle - haven't seen
Hard Rain - Easily Christian Slater
Thick as Thieves - Haven't seen it
Amistad - haven't seen
Outbreak - Dustin Hoffman.......

[Niamh.]

He won the Oscar for best actor in a leading role though, also Driving Miss Daisy, who are the black actors in vogue at the moment I don't watch a lot of movies so I have no idea, do they deserve a nomination? If they do then it needs investigating, if they don't then it doesn't :shrug:

Yeah Driving Miss daisy is one definitely and I guess I have to give you the Shawshank then :laugh:

[arista]

Invictus - haven't seen
Seven - Brad Pitt he was imo
The Bucket List - Jack Nicholson was imo
5 flights up - haven't seen
Olympus Has Fallen - Gerard Butler
Along Came A Spider - I'll give you
Kiss the Girls - I'll give you
Sum of all Fears - Ben Affleck
The Magic of Belle Isle - haven't seen
Hard Rain - Easily Christian Slater
Thick as Thieves - Haven't seen it
Amistad - haven't seen
Outbreak - Dustin Hoffman.......


Yes love that Film
was used in Daily Show ReMix on Ebola
year back

Utter Bliss

[Livia]

Invictus - haven't seen
Seven - Brad Pitt he was imo
The Bucket List - Jack Nicholson was imo
5 flights up - haven't seen
Olympus Has Fallen - Gerard Butler
Along Came A Spider - I'll give you
Kiss the Girls - I'll give you
Sum of all Fears - Ben Affleck
The Magic of Belle Isle - haven't seen
Hard Rain - Easily Christian Slater
Thick as Thieves - Haven't seen it
Amistad - haven't seen
Outbreak - Dustin Hoffman.......

You've just named the white actor who was also in it. It doesn't diminish a black actor's role just because he was in it with a white man!

We need more roles for black actors, so we need more black screenwriters. Why isn't the boycott focusing on the need for black roles, rather than black actors?

[user104658]

First billed is not the same as protagonist, Freeman is first billed in loads of films that his role, if you watch it, would best be described as "major supporting". In all where he is a definitive lead, there is ALWAYS a second lead.

Your list Livia:



Invictus - OK this one is a given, it's about Nelson Mandela, however he does have a white co-protagonist in Matt Damon.

Seven - First billed but a co-protagonist. And arguably, the film is about Pitt's character.

Bucket List - Jack Nicholson first billed

5 Flights Up - Diane keaton first billed. Surely this one gets bonus points though! A black male lead, a female lead, AND inter-racial coupling? Thats a PC win right there :joker:

Olympus Has Fallen - C'mon Livia... this is a Gerard Butler vehicle.

Along Came A Spider - He's first billed -- BUT -- the movie is about the white girl.

Kiss The Girls - More or less the same story as the above, slightly less so, at best he's co-protagonist though it's not "a Morgan Freeman movie".

Sum of all Fears - Affleck flick

The Magic of Belle Isle - This one is a Morgan Freeman film! It... grossed $100,000 total.

Hard Rain - Christian Slater and Minnie Driver's huge head and face. Isn't Freeman the villain in this? Being the villain doesn't count.

Thick as Thieves - I've never actually heard of it... he isn't first billed though and it looks like it was a (drastic) box office flop.

Amistad - Another given as it's a "slave film" - but he shares billing with Anthony Hopkins and Matthew McConaughy.

Outbreak - Unambiguously a Dustin Hoffman film (and if we're looking at black leads, though billed lower than Freeman, Cuba Gooding Jr is the lead supporting actor, Freeman's role was relatively small).

[user104658]

You've just named the white actor who was also in it. It doesn't diminish a black actor's role just because he was in it with a white man!

It's not about them being "in" the film, it's pointing out that in many of those films there is an actual white lead (Pitt, Butler, Affleck, Slater, Hoffman in their respective films) and in all of the others, there is at the very least a corresponding white lead. There are no films that he carries on his own, as the lead.

Will Smith has loads of them, Denzel Washington has a few... Jamie Foxx also, easily carries Django Unchained. I honest to god can't think of any other SOLO black leads.

[Alf]

Who cares if Spike Lee is spitting his dummy out (again)

This is a director that casts mainly black actors in all his films, so he has no room to talk.

The guy seems to have a problem with White people.

[Niamh.]

It's not about them being "in" the film, it's pointing out that in many of those films there is an actual white lead (Pitt, Butler, Affleck, Slater, Hoffman in their respective films) and in all of the others, there is at the very least a corresponding white lead. There are no films that he carries on his own, as the lead.

Will Smith has loads of them, Denzel Washington has a few... Jamie Foxx also, easily carries Django Unchained. I honest to god can't think of any other SOLO black leads.

For me Jamie Foxx was definitely second to Christoph Waltz, well it was about Jamie more so, so he is the male lead but Christopher waltz carried the film imo (I hate Jamie Foxx though and love Christopher waltz so maybe I'm biassed in that haha)

[Cherie]

So a question to the film buffs which black actors were overlooked and deserved a nomination and for which movie?

[Niamh.]

So a question to the film buffs which black actors were overlooked and deserved a nomination and for which movie?

That wasn't the point, it's the lack of decent roles for black actors that would lead to nominations for them (imo anyway)

[bots]

This is concentrating on men ... what about Whoopy, Halley Berry, Whitney, Queen Latifah to name but a few, all with top of the bill starring credits

[Crimson Dynamo]

So a question to the film buffs which black actors were overlooked and deserved a nomination and for which movie?

Rudolph Walker for his portrayal of Bill Reynolds in the 1973 smash Love Thy Neighbour

:flutter:

[Niamh.]

You've just named the white actor who was also in it. It doesn't diminish a black actor's role just because he was in it with a white man!

We need more roles for black actors, so we need more black screenwriters. Why isn't the boycott focusing on the need for black roles, rather than black actors?

No I didn't the white actors in it were clearly the lead roles

[Livia]

First billed is not the same as protagonist, Freeman is first billed in loads of films that his role, if you watch it, would best be described as "major supporting". In all where he is a definitive lead, there is ALWAYS a second lead.

Your list Livia:



Invictus - OK this one is a given, it's about Nelson Mandela, however he does have a white co-protagonist in Matt Damon.

Seven - First billed but a co-protagonist. And arguably, the film is about Pitt's character.

Bucket List - Jack Nicholson first billed

5 Flights Up - Diane keaton first billed. Surely this one gets bonus points though! A black male lead, a female lead, AND inter-racial coupling? Thats a PC win right there :joker:

Olympus Has Fallen - C'mon Livia... this is a Gerard Butler vehicle.

Along Came A Spider - He's first billed -- BUT -- the movie is about the white girl.

Kiss The Girls - More or less the same story as the above, slightly less so, at best he's co-protagonist though it's not "a Morgan Freeman movie".

Sum of all Fears - Affleck flick

The Magic of Belle Isle - This one is a Morgan Freeman film! It... grossed $100,000 total.

Hard Rain - Christian Slater and Minnie Driver's huge head and face. Isn't Freeman the villain in this? Being the villain doesn't count.

Thick as Thieves - I've never actually heard of it... he isn't first billed though and it looks like it was a (drastic) box office flop.

Amistad - Another given as it's a "slave film" - but he shares billing with Anthony Hopkins and Matthew McConaughy.

Outbreak - Unambiguously a Dustin Hoffman film (and if we're looking at black leads, though billed lower than Freeman, Cuba Gooding Jr is the lead supporting actor, Freeman's role was relatively small).

It's not about them being "in" the film, it's pointing out that in many of those films there is an actual white lead (Pitt, Butler, Affleck, Slater, Hoffman in their respective films) and in all of the others, there is at the very least a corresponding white lead. There are no films that he carries on his own, as the lead.

Will Smith has loads of them, Denzel Washington has a few... Jamie Foxx also, easily carries Django Unchained. I honest to god can't think of any other SOLO black leads.

There are lots of white actors who've never been the protagonist.

How many times has an Asian actor been the protagonist? Asians make up half the world.... maybe they should boycott the Academy Awards.

Like I said before.... you want more great parts for black actors? Get more black screenwriters.

[Livia]

No I didn't the white actors in it were clearly the lead roles

Clearly? Not to me...

[Niamh.]

Clearly? Not to me...

Christian Slater wasn't the main lead role in Hard Rain then? come on

[arista]

A Black Agent for a Top British Black Actor
said the Oscars is Racist.

He has a Top Black Lady Actor
who refused to go on Ch4's Top Boy
as it would destroy her future USA contracts.


Back to Idris
why do just 2 episodes of Luther?

If you are going to America
bloody go,

If you are Free Lance
we need 6 or 8 episodes for BBC1HD
as I co- fund those feckers with the rest of the UK
and I agree you are good as Detective Luther

[Livia]

Christian Slater wasn't the main lead role in Hard Rain then? come on

Is Christian Slater more respected and recognised than Morgan Freeman by film-goers?

I don't think this argument is about Morgan Freemen, he's a really successful black actor. There are thousands of no-so-successful black actors who, if they want decent parts, should maybe start writing screenplays. A bit like women did.

Black screenwriters. It's what it all comes down to.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How many American Actors get starring roles in BOllywood films?

[Niamh.]

Is Christian Slater more respected and recognised than Morgan Freeman by film-goers?

I don't think this argument is about Morgan Freemen, he's a really successful black actor. There are thousands of no-so-successful black actors who, if they want decent parts, should maybe start writing screenplays. A bit like women did.

Black screenwriters. It's what it all comes down to.

He was by me back in the 90's :smug: but yes I know obviously Morgan Freeman has had more longevity with his career but back when that film came out Christian Slater was one of the most popular hot young actors, he was most definitely the draw for that film

[Livia]

He was by me back in the 90's :smug: but yes I know obviously Morgan Freeman has had more longevity with his career but back when that film came out Christian Slater was one of the most popular hot young actors, he was most definitely the draw for that film

Screenwriters. Black ones. It's the only way...

[Mokka]

Is Christian Slater more respected and recognised than Morgan Freeman by film-goers?

I don't think this argument is about Morgan Freemen, he's a really successful black actor. There are thousands of no-so-successful black actors who, if they want decent parts, should maybe start writing screenplays. A bit like women did.

Black screenwriters. It's what it all comes down to.

There are many black screenwriters... they can't get their talent past the all white heads and executives of the film industry... It's a rampant problem through out the industry. It has been noted and spoken about for years. Glad the film stars that have a high amount of public profile are speaking out about it in this way. Helps to get the point across.

[Tom4784]

I agree with the boycott, It's ridiculous that there's no diversity in the nominations when there's more than enough contenders that got snubbed.

[Niamh.]

Screenwriters. Black ones. It's the only way...

Why? In most films it wouldn't even matter if the lead was played by a white or black actor

[Livia]

Why? In most films it wouldn't even matter if the lead was played by a white or black actor

Why are Asian actors so unrepresented? There are even less of them in lead roles...

[Livia]

There are many black screenwriters... they can't get their talent past the all white heads and executives of the film industry... It's a rampant problem through out the industry. It has been noted and spoken about for years. Glad the film stars that have a high amount of public profile are speaking out about it in this way. Helps to get the point across.

The vast majority of those white heads are attached to Jewish bodies. All I think they're concerned with is the bottom line. If a box-office-busting black actor brought in as much cash as a box-office-busting white actor, I'm sure they'd cast them.

Will Smith, for example.

[Niamh.]

Why are Asian actors so unrepresented? There are even less of them in lead roles...

Why are you asking me that like you're proving some sort of a point, you're right, white actors are dominating the film industry.

[Mokka]

The vast majority of those white heads are attached to Jewish bodies. All I think they're concerned with is the bottom line. If a box-office-busting black actor brought in as much cash as a box-office-busting white actor, I'm sure they'd cast them.

Will Smith, for example.

But box office smash isn't what translates to Oscar win. I just don't buy that argument when the majority of Oscar nom's/ wins are for movies and roles that aren't big box office money getters.

[Livia]

Why are you asking me that like you're proving some sort of a point, you're right, white actors are dominating the film industry.

Don't you take that tone with me, young lady...

(please don't go Bold Niamh on me...)

But box office smash isn't what translates to Oscar win. I just don't buy that argument when the majority of Oscar nom's/ wins are for movies and roles that aren't big box office money getters.

I don't know what the ratio is of black actors in lead roles in minor films.

Fifty years ago black people weren't allowed to sit in the same part of the bus as white people. Things are changing... society is changing. We just believe it's happening really slowly.

[Niamh.]

Don't you take that tone with me, young lady...

(please don't go Bold Niamh on me...)



I don't know what the ratio is of black actors in lead roles in minor films.

Fifty years ago black people weren't allowed to sit in the same part of the bus as white people. Things are changing... society is changing. We just believe it's happening really slowly.

:smug:


Star Wars though ......

**not really a spoiler but better spoiler it anyway**
Black lead male and female Jedi :worship:

[Livia]

:smug:


Star Wars though ......

**not really a spoiler but better spoiler it anyway**
Black lead male and female Jedi :worship:

Yeah! Excellent example.

I think this will evolve naturally you know. I don't think boycotting things gets the right message across and neither to I think Spike Lee is a reliable mouthpiece for black people because he is, in my opinion, racist.

[Niamh.]

Yeah! Excellent example.

I think this will evolve naturally you know. I don't think boycotting things gets the right message across and neither to I think Spike Lee is a reliable mouthpiece for black people because he is, in my opinion, racist.

Yeah Spike Lee does come across that way a bit. People like the actors mentioned in this thread would be better spokes people imo, I wonder where Will Smiths stands in all of this since his wife is boycotting the Oscars too :think:

[Tom4784]

So a question to the film buffs which black actors were overlooked and deserved a nomination and for which movie?

Beasts of No Nation was catching a lot of Oscar Heat for quite a while and Idris Elba was looking to be a shoe in for a nod and the actor who played Agu was tipped for a while too. Will Smith was tipped for Concussion and Micheal B Jordan picked up some momentum for Creed. There was a film called Tangerine which had a black transgender actress who was a contender for the actress category.

[Tom4784]

He's not black but Benicio Del Toro was also highly tipped to pick up a nod this year.

[Livia]

Yeah Spike Lee does come across that way a bit. People like the actors mentioned in this thread would be better spokes people imo, I wonder where Will Smiths stands in all of this since his wife is boycotting the Oscars too :think:

Yeah, I'd be more interested in hearing from Jada Pinkett-Smith than Spike Lee. And Will Smith has got to be one of the biggest box-office draws of any actor, black or white... so he would make an ideal spokesperson.

[the truth]

morgan freeman would be the ideal spokesperson, he has played the president and God so many time and so convincingly, most movie goers think he is the superior being

[Niamh.]

morgan freeman would be the ideal spokesperson, he has played the president and God so many time and so convincingly, most movie goers think he is the superior being

Also, who wouldn't stop to listen to that voice :flutter:

[Brother Leon]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?

http://fp-murphy-images-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/beastsnonationmain.jpg

[Tom4784]

Maybe there were no black actors in roles that deserved an Oscar this year. Do we need some positive discrimination to make sure there's always a black nominee? Are we all for positive discrimination in this way?

Nobody is saying that, people are outraged because there are black actors who deserved nods that have been passed over for no apparent reason for performances that aren't up to scratch (I love Bryan Cranston but Trumbo was sentimental trash).

[Kizzy]

Is Christian Slater more respected and recognised than Morgan Freeman by film-goers?

I don't think this argument is about Morgan Freemen, he's a really successful black actor. There are thousands of no-so-successful black actors who, if they want decent parts, should maybe start writing screenplays. A bit like women did.

Black screenwriters. It's what it all comes down to.

They have to write parts for themselves a nobody else will, how is that a solution?

[bots]

Everyone knows that the oscar winner is rarely the one who deserves it. Particularly in the less high profile awards. It's America lovies!

[Johnnyuk123]

I found this poster from 1919 which shows that african americans have been represented as far back as then. I'm sure there is more information out there if i look into it.
http://legacyfilm.org.uk/communities/9/004/008/120/939//images/4614673436_489x321.jpg

[Kizzy]

It's interesting they were better represented then than they are now for sure.

[Livia]

It's interesting they were better represented then than they are now for sure.

Except they couldn't sit in a theatre and watch the film with white people then.

[Kizzy]

Except they couldn't sit in a theatre and watch the film with white people then.

So they should be grateful for small mercies?

[the truth]

of the top 50 richets actors alive, 10 are either black or indian....2 are south American and sacha baron cohen is he Arabian/jewish? several jewish actors there too , Gwyneth paltrow, sandler, Seinfeld, stiller, owen Wilson,downey junior etc
not many disabled people in the list

[Livia]

So they should be grateful for small mercies?

That's what you took from what I said? Wow...

[Johnnyuk123]

Will Smith's wife Jada Pinkett Smith needs to understand that she was only invited on the plus one anyways because of her famous movie star husband otherwise she would not have even been invited in the first place cos she can't act for toffee.

[Cherie]

Beasts of No Nation was catching a lot of Oscar Heat for quite a while and Idris Elba was looking to be a shoe in for a nod and the actor who played Agu was tipped for a while too. Will Smith was tipped for Concussion and Micheal B Jordan picked up some momentum for Creed. There was a film called Tangerine which had a black transgender actress who was a contender for the actress category.

Okay not heard of any of those, As I understand it the selection panel is made up of whites so they need to look at that for starters

[Marsh.]

They can ride public transport and use hospitals. What MORE DO THEY WANT?

[Marsh.]

It's interesting they were better represented then than they are now for sure.

One movie with an all black cast makes that era of film have better representation? erm no.

[Marsh.]

Will Smith's wife Jada Pinkett Smith needs to understand that she was only invited on the plus one anyways because of her famous movie star husband otherwise she would not have even been invited in the first place cos she can't act for toffee.

Yeah, because she's clearly miffed because she herself hasn't been nominated. That must be it.

[Mokka]

One movie with an all black cast makes that era of film have better representation? erm no.

Lol... true.

I liked Niamh's opinion earlier. I know Hollywood and casting are all about looks... but why are roles that don't require any sort of race at all always cast white? Superhero movies... all white. Why is colour such a major factor in determining the actor chosen. And yes, it's the same for Indian or Asian actors as well. Master of None... the tv show on Netflix actually has a great episode that deals with this issue.

[Livia]

Spike Lee actually picked up an honorary Oscar last year and was described as "a champion of independent film and an inspiration to young filmmakers". Guess he forgot.

[Marsh.]

It's like when the black lady was cast as Hermione and the whole backlash it got showed how there is still a way to go.

Hermione is essentially a race neutral character and the kicking off about it was ridiculous.

[Mokka]

It's like when the black lady was cast as Hermione and the whole backlash it got showed how there is still a way to go.

Hermione is essentially a race neutral character and the kicking off about it was ridiculous.

Exactly :clap1:

[Cherie]

Why are you both using the same sig :suspect: have you joined a cult :omgno:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why are you both using the same sig :suspect: have you joined a cult :omgno:

who?

and where is your avatar?

:suspect:

[Cherie]

who?

and where is your avatar?

:suspect:

Mokka and Marsh, must dig out my old one I know you love it :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mokka and Marsh, must dig out my old one I know you love it :hee:

dont bring that barn roof back again :fist:

[Marsh.]

Why are you both using the same sig :suspect: have you joined a cult :omgno:

Keep Josy away from any of the balconies in TiBB Towers is all I'm saying

[Mokka]

Why are you both using the same sig :suspect: have you joined a cult :omgno:

lol... In my defense... I used the quote first....

But Marsh can be just like me... I'm ok with that

[GiRTh]

Same old crazy debate. :bored:

As much as I think Spike and Jada have a point I wish they'd dedicate a little more effort to others issues rather than any perceived slight they feel the academy has shown them.

[Marsh.]

Same old crazy debate. :bored:

As much as I think Spike and Jada have a point I wish they'd dedicate a little more effort to others issues rather than any perceived slight they feel the academy has shown them.

Which other issues?

Why can't they fight for equality where there clearly isn't any?

Jada's also spoken about the gender gap when it comes to Hollywood pay too.

[GiRTh]

Which other issues?

Why can't they fight for equality where there clearly isn't any?

Jada's also spoken about the gender gap when it comes to Hollywood pay too.Welcome back Marsh :thumbs:

I agree there is an issue here but not too sure how a boycott can affect anything. If they want to be political then there are plenty of issues where their input wold be appreciate and possibly affect change. I dont think this boycott will change anything and I dont think if they boycott for the next five years it will change anything.

[Marsh.]

Welcome back Marsh :thumbs:

I agree there is an issue here but not too sure how a boycott can affect anything. If they want to be political then there are plenty of issue where their input wold be appreciate and possibly affect change. I dont think this boycott will change anything and I dont think if they boycott for the next five years it will change anything.

There's always going to be other issues. But this is one area they are involved with and are affected by so this is obviously where their efforts will go.

[GiRTh]

There's always going to be other issues. But this is one area they are involved with and are affected by so this is obviously where their efforts will go.And I wish them well. :thumbs:

[Mokka]

Welcome back Marsh :thumbs:

I agree there is an issue here but not too sure how a boycott can affect anything. If they want to be political then there are plenty of issues where their input wold be appreciate and possibly affect change. I dont think this boycott will change anything and I dont think if they boycott for the next five years it will change anything.

I said it on the first page and I will say it again... A boycott is a very reasonable and effective way to get people talking about the issue... and to bring a long standing issue into the awareness of the greater public. Especially when it is big stars who are going to get big press reporting it.

It is already working, because it has people like us having healthy debate on the issue... and if it is true that the public dollars dictate what movie gets made or not made based on where we spend our box office dollars... then the public need to be aware of the issue... not just the executives in the offices.

[GiRTh]

I said it on the first page and I will say it again... A boycott is a very reasonable and effective way to get people talking about the issue... and to bring a long standing issue into the awareness of the greater public. Especially when it is big stars who are going to get big press reporting it.

It is already working, because it has people like us having healthy debate on the issue... and if it is true that the public dollars dictate what movie gets made or not made based on where we spend our box office dollars... then the public need to be aware of the issue... not just the executives in the offices.Hollywood execs have far more power that Jada and Spike. They wont do anything if they dont want to. This debate has been about since Halle Berry won her Oscar, a full 15 years ago, and made it public knowledge she was the first black woman to do so. Not much has changed since then.

[Mokka]

Hollywood execs have far more power that Jada and Spike. They wont do anything if they dont want to. This debate has been about since Halle Berry won her Oscar, a full 15 years ago, and made it public knowledge she was the first black woman to do so. Not much has changed since then.

cynical... nothing is ever going to change... so **** about it and don't bother...

that is exactly how things don't change. :smug:

[GiRTh]

cynical... nothing is ever going to change... so **** about it and don't bother...

that is exactly how things don't change. :smug:Dont shoot the messenger. This attitude has been cultivated over many decades where nothing ever seems to change.

[the truth]

only 17% of americans are black, theyre 18% behind in graduation, its hard to make any factual period pieces about powerful people with African americans in the lead roles

[arista]

Same old crazy debate. :bored:

As much as I think Spike and Jada have a point I wish they'd dedicate a little more effort to others issues rather than any perceived slight they feel the academy has shown them.


Yes its not good for business,
Chis Rock presenting the Oscars
Live on SkyMoviesHD (for UK) 28th Feb
will be great.

[Marsh.]

only 17% of americans are black, theyre 18% behind in graduation, its hard to make any factual period pieces about powerful people with African americans in the lead roles

Do they need to be factual or period pieces?

Any films at all would be a start.

I'd say the problem is the films "needing" to be factual. Most of the films with leading black characters tends to be related to slavery/times when black people were treated like second class citizens like The Help, 12 Years a Slave etc.

[Ammi]

..I don't know, I find this a bit of a difficult one because The Oscars have always been controversial with some actors for one reason or another...Marlon Brando was the first person I recall to have 'famously' snubbed them when he won his Oscar for The Godfather..(I think it was The Godfather..)...and a native American lady attended in his place to reject the award...was that in protest to the treatment of native American Indians..?..hasn't Robert De Nero snubbed them as well, I'm not sure...but I think many minorities have been protested against not being represented enough, not enough parts for females in comparison to males, not enough older female parts, not enough English acting representation...(and yet Idris is saying that America is the place to be for diversity..?..)...

..it's hard to say also with this years nominations because I haven't seen most of the movies, so don't know whether they're the best ones and the ones that should be getting the shout outs...I did watch The Danish Girl last night though, which I think is nominated...and although I do thinks it's a great movie and very worthy, for me it's definitely not a better movie than Beast of No Nation, for instance..but that's just my personal choice, Beast of No Nation is the sort of movie that hits you and makes a huge impact in your thoughts, it's brutal and feels very relevant atm...the recruiting of child soldiers, so comparable to IS and something that we've all talked about so much in recent times...maybe Hollywood/the Academy felt in some way that in nominating it, they would be almost 'giving a nod to IS'..?..it all gets so political I think as well...I think that I'm less surprised that Idris wasn't nominated, than I am that Abraham Attah wasn't because Hollywood is the home of the child actor/star, is it not...and his performance for me, was the best ever of any child actor that I recall, he really is an incredible actor...but I don't know really, is it a racism thing with Beast of No Nations or just such a real and brutal storyline that they don't want to address this year..interesting...

[lostalex]

yay, my not watching the oscars finally has some meaning. This is the kind of activism i can get behind.

never say i didn't do anything for the blacks.

http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/dcr/6Xx/dcr6Xxdc9.jpeg

[Livia]

It's like when the black lady was cast as Hermione and the whole backlash it got showed how there is still a way to go.

Hermione is essentially a race neutral character and the kicking off about it was ridiculous.

In the Potter books, Hermoine came back from France with a suntan. Hardly race neutral.

[Niamh.]

In the Potter books, Hermoine came back from France with a suntan. Hardly race neutral.



http://time.com/4156751/jk-rowling-black-hermione-granger/

[GiRTh]

In the Potter books, Hermoine came back from France with a suntan. Hardly race neutral.Not according to J K Rowling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-hermione-harry-potter-play_us_56784a40e4b014efe0d6389c

[Livia]

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

[Niamh.]

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

2 shakey references and suddenly Hermoine can never be played by a black actor? Also I'm pretty sure black people blush too

[Alf]

Is James Bond race neutral?

Because I hear Idris Elba is being considered.

[Livia]

Is James Bond race neutral?

Because I hear Idris Elba is being considered.

No he is not race-neutral. He is white in the books. But what's more, a black man could not integrate in the places that James Bond did. A black Bond would be a terrible spy. What's more, Bond is an established character.

How about we have a white Luthur next time?

[Livia]

2 shakey references and suddenly Hermoine can never be played by a black actor? Also I'm pretty sure black people blush too

I added another bit to my comment after you wrote this.

[Niamh.]

No he is not race-neutral. He is white in the books. But what's more, a black man could not integrate in the places that James Bond did. A black Bond would be a terrible spy. What's more, Bond is an established character.

How about we have a white Luthur next time?

Is he Scottish or Irish or English in the books?

[GiRTh]

Is James Bond race neutral?

Because I hear Idris Elba is being considered.If Idris get the role then he would be one of the best actors to have ever played the part. Should we rule him out just because he doesn't fit into the characters ethnicity even though he's a superior actor?

[Niamh.]

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

why would she? sounds to me like she just wasn't bothered whether Hermoine was played by a black or a white actress?

[Alf]

If Idris get the role then he would be one of the best actors to have ever played the part. Should we rule him out just because he doesn't fit into the characters ethnicity even though he's a superior actor?
No one will ever top Sir Roger as Bond.

So you believe a White actor should have been considered for the role of Nelson Mandella? That's what the second part of your statement says to me?

[GiRTh]

No one will ever top Sir Roger as Bond.

So you believe a White actor should have been considered for the role of Nelson Mandella? That's what the second part of your statement says to me?
Nelson Mandela is not a fictional character.

[Niamh.]

No one will ever top Sir Roger as Bond.

So you believe a White actor should have been considered for the role of Nelson Mandella? That's what the second part of your statement says to me?

Don't be silly, Nelson Mandela is a real historic figure, James Bond is not, him being white isn't vital to the story

[Ammi]

No one will ever top Sir Roger as Bond.

So you believe a White actor should have been considered for the role of Nelson Mandella? That's what the second part of your statement says to me?

..there is a huge difference though wanna, with a fictional character and someone in real life...

[Alf]

Nelson Mandela is not a fictional character.
You didn't say fictional.

[GiRTh]

You didn't say fictional.Did I need to say that? I thought you would assume. :thumbs:

[Alf]

Ok do you think a White actor should have been considered for the lead role in Boyz and the Hood?

[Ammi]

..oh, must type quicker...I know it was just a one off character..(unless there are sequels..)...but Denzel recently played the lead in The Equalizer..I hadn't actually realised that it was based on the old series but that character was white in the series and Denzel stepped into the role beautifully, without any thought really other than to his acting...(it was a bit naff and corny I have to say/the movie but you know what I mean..)..

[GiRTh]

Ok do you think a White actor should have been considered for the lead role in Boyz and the Hood?If he was good enough and could carry the part then yes. I would have no problem with it.

[Ammi]

Ok do you think a White actor should have been considered for the lead role in Boyz and the Hood?

..not when it's about something with a predominantly black population but that's it though isn't it...black actors seem to mainly get parts which would be specific to that..not so much the 'neutral' parts....

[Niamh.]

Ok do you think a White actor should have been considered for the lead role in Boyz and the Hood?

Been along time since I watched that movie but isn't Boyz n the hood specifically about racial issues? That would be like saying a black guy could play Edward Nortons character in American History X............clearly not. However could a white guy play Will Smiths part in I Am Legend? Absolutely

[Alf]

silly me calling it Boyz And the hood, you know I mean n


I am a first class turd sometimes.

[Ammi]

silly me calling it Boyz And the hood, you know I mean n


I am a first class turd sometimes.


...:laugh:...yeah well we didn't like to say/awkward moment passed...

[Niamh.]

silly me calling it Boyz And the hood, you know I mean n


I am a first class turd sometimes.

Is that a dig at me? :/ I knew what you meant, I never said otherwise :shrug:

[Alf]

Is that a dig at me? :/ I knew what you meant, I never said otherwise :shrug:
Would I ever have a dig at fine classy lady as yourself?

I'm a gentlemen.

[Niamh.]

Would I ever have a dig at fine classy lady as yourself?

I'm a gentlemen.

I hope not :nono: I wasn't correcting you, I didn't even notice you'd typed "and" instead of "n" until after you pointed it out :laugh:

[Ammi]

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

[the truth]

I detest eddie redmayne as an actor, can we replace his dreadful ham acting with a black man with a large member

[Ammi]

I detest eddie redmayne as an actor, can we replace his dreadful ham acting with a black man with a large member

..that wouldn't have worked with Stephen Hawking though..:laugh:...he's obviously quite a fragile looking person and Eddie does have that fragile look...also in The Danish Girl, it would have to have been a character of slight build and that character was also a real person and white/not a fictional character....I don't know how his acting in the Danish Girl will stand up against others because I haven't seen other Oscar nominated movies yet...and it's obviously only going to be my opinion when I do...

[Northern Monkey]

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

Maybe they should have had a black Stephen Hawking?:laugh:

[Niamh.]

Maybe they should have had a black Stephen Hawking?:laugh:

He's an actual person though like Nelson Mandela :nono:

[Livia]

why would she? sounds to me like she just wasn't bothered whether Hermoine was played by a black or a white actress?
The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).


Is he Scottish or Irish or English in the books?
We're talking race here, not nationality.



If Idris get the role then he would be one of the best actors to have ever played the part. Should we rule him out just because he doesn't fit into the characters ethnicity even though he's a superior actor?
Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

[Niamh.]

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).



We're talking race here, not nationality.




Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

Why is race so much more of an issue than nationality is? You're either sticking rigidly to his description or you're not :/


Re Hermoine: again what's the big deal? Characters when transferred to film are often very different from their description in the book, like the Divergent series, one of the characters is described as being 5'8" in the book, the actress who played her was 5'2", why is race a much bigger issue to height or nationality when it's not really important to the story?

[Mokka]

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).



We're talking race here, not nationality.




Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

Outside of the movies... why would you assume that Hermione is white?? Why should a writer have to portray any character with a specific skin colour?? That really reduces the chances of people all over the world finding relating qualities to that character.
And I think the real question here is, why would it be a bad thing to thing of her as having a different race... The colour of a person should not be such a divisive issue... and people who do get upset over it, you have to question why it is that they see skin colour as a negative, or why they see skin colour at all.

And again, why would bond have to be white to be bond?? I really am at a loss to understand your logic here.

[bots]

i vote for the Krankies women, made up as a Chinese woman to play the next Bond or Dr. Who

[the truth]

im still in shock that the snobs in the movie business let a scot a Welshman, an aussie and an Irishman play bond

[Tom4784]

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

The whole point of it is that Hermione being white isn't an intrinsic part of her character. There are references in the books to her being white but they never established her race as an important part of her character meaning that, appearance wise, any race could play her as long as they could match the specified traits of her appearance (Bushy hair and such).

When it comes to James Bond, the films have rarely done 1:1 adaptations of the books, most of the older films borrowed the name and plot points of books but it's only really Casino Royale that stuck really close to the source material. At this point it's fair to say that the James Bond of the books and the James Bond on screen are two different entities. The James Bond of the films is an amalgam rather than one consistent character, the interpretation of the character changes with the actor and the film version being white isn't important at all to the character. James Bond needs to be a man and he needs some sort of UK accent, those are really the only two important elements when it comes to the basics of the character's appearance.

If they ever do a reboot where they stick to the books more religiously, a consistent depiction Bond's race, appearance and personality would probably be important but when it comes to the films it's up to interpretation.

[Johnnyuk123]

What next??? they will be demanding the next James Bond must be a chinese midget.

[Johnnyuk123]

So the next time they make another mohammed ali film i expect Tom Hardy to get that role because that would be the right thing to do. It works both ways.

[Marsh.]

In the Potter books, Hermoine came back from France with a suntan. Hardly race neutral.

:laugh:

I meant the character itself is race neutral. It makes no actual difference to the character, book, story, movie etc if she were black, white, mixed or green.

Whereas, changing the skin colour of a character whose race is relevant would be changing things.

[Marsh.]

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

I think that's kind of the point.

She doesn't need to "ensure" she was played by either colour. It was open for any actors. As long as they were English which was relevant.

Black people flush red too? :fist: As do mixed race. :hmph:

[Marsh.]

No he is not race-neutral. He is white in the books. But what's more, a black man could not integrate in the places that James Bond did. A black Bond would be a terrible spy. What's more, Bond is an established character.

How about we have a white Luthur next time?

Now this would be a relevant and kosher argument for being specific about the skin colour of an actor.

In Hermione's case, there is no such specifics. It makes no odds to the character/story what colour she is.

[Marsh.]

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).

The theatre has colour blind casting literally ALL the time. :laugh:

The same character is often played by both white and black actors sharing the role on a tour etc.

It's a different art form to a movie. Just as the movies for HP were largely different to the books. Different mediums.

I think the point Rowling made was that it didn't need to be made "clear" whether she was black and white anyway because it really doesn't matter.

I don't think the "pictures in their heads" whilst reading the books is at all relevant. 90% of the Harry Potter books I imagined whilst reading them didn't match up to what the film visualised. They're different mediums.

There are hundreds of various book covers that depict Harry Potter as a vastly different looking character, all of which look nothing like Daniel Radcliffe, or the guy about to play him in the theatre show. I don't think skin colour is any different to that to be honest.

[GiRTh]

Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?If he was a good enough actor and the part was well written I would have no problem with it.

So are you saying Idris isn't Bond simply due to his ethnicity? The quality of his acting doesn't matter, his experience doesn't matter, he's wrong due simply to his ethnicity? Even though all the novels have been adapted and the films being produced are brand new stories, we still cant veer far from the novels description of Bond? I hope the Broccoli family say 'stuff that' and give the job to the best actor available.

[Marsh.]

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

I think that's spot on. Most films with black leads tends to be when the role NEEDS a black lead because of the subject matter of the movie or it being based on real people.

But the pure fiction where they could write about anyone tends to cast white actors.

[Mokka]

I think that's spot on. Most films with black leads tends to be when the role NEEDS a black lead because of the subject matter of the movie or it being based on real people.

But the pure fiction where they could write about anyone tends to cast white actors.

Exactly :clap1:

[GiRTh]

Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?Did you tell him he was unsuitable to play Bond I would have loved to hear his response?

[Johnnyuk123]

The next movie version of snow white will have seven seven foot dwarfs.

[Kizzy]

What else happens in Bond films other than fight and love scenes and some bloke stalking around looking all suave drinking martinis..What's so 'white' about that?

[Marsh.]

What else happens in Bond films other than fight and love scenes and some bloke stalking around looking all suave drinking martinis..What's so 'white' about that?

Because the non white people are the villains. God Kizzy. :idc:

[Tom4784]

So the next time they make another mohammed ali film i expect Tom Hardy to get that role because that would be the right thing to do. It works both ways.

I never knew Mohammed Ali was a fictional character.

[Marsh.]

So the next time they make another mohammed ali film i expect Tom Hardy to get that role because that would be the right thing to do. It works both ways.

Speaks volumes that the first black character you could think of was based on a real person.

How many fictional black characters were the lead in movies?

[Marsh.]

What next??? they will be demanding the next James Bond must be a chinese midget.

"They" aren't demanding anything of the sort.

[Johnnyuk123]

Speaks volumes that the first black character you could think of was based on a real person.

How many fictional black characters were the lead in movies?

I'm not bothered who plays the lead role in any movie. As long as the movie entertains me thats all that matters. If people object to any movie because it doesn't reach a certain quota of different races then simply don't pay to watch it.

[Mokka]

I'm not bothered who plays the lead role in any movie. As long as the movie entertains me thats all that matters. If people object to any movie because it doesn't reach a certain quota of different races then simply don't pay to watch it.

I'm already employing this philosophy...

this is exactly why I pirate everything :smug:

[Johnnyuk123]

I'm already employing this philosophy...

this is exactly why I pirate everything :smug:

snap :thumbs::wavey:

[Tom4784]

I'm not bothered who plays the lead role in any movie. As long as the movie entertains me thats all that matters. If people object to any movie because it doesn't reach a certain quota of different races then simply don't pay to watch it.

You've just shown that you don't understand this thread at all. It's not about reaching 'quotas' it's about the fact that non-white actors are constantly marginalised in Hollywood and the Oscar noms are proof of this.

[Marsh.]

I'm not bothered who plays the lead role in any movie. As long as the movie entertains me thats all that matters. If people object to any movie because it doesn't reach a certain quota of different races then simply don't pay to watch it.

It's not about reaching a quota within individual movies.

It's about giving non-white actors a chance to star in movies in a business that is whitewashed.

But, apologies, I didn't realise we were discussing what you're bothered about and not about the problems within a global movie industry. :idc:

[Johnnyuk123]

You've just shown that you don't understand this thread at all. It's not about reaching 'quotas' it's about the fact that non-white actors are constantly marginalised in Hollywood and the Oscar noms are proof of this.

Starwars the force awakens has a leading actor which goes directly against what you are saying.

[Marsh.]

Starwars the force awakens has a leading actor which goes directly against what you are saying.

So Star Wars has a leading man who is black and all is right with the world? :unsure:

Do you realise how many movies are made a year?

[GiRTh]

Starwars the force awakens has a leading actor which goes directly against what you are saying.Look at the fuss that caused.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/20/twitter-trolls-boycott-star-wars-black-character-force-awakens-john-boyega

Well done to the Star wars franchise for their stance. :clap1:

[Johnnyuk123]

So Star Wars has a leading man who is black and all is right with the world? :unsure:

Do you realise how many movies are made a year?

No Marsh i am not saying it makes it all right at all. I am saying the whole argument is ridiculous because movies are made to make money for the makers and their backers and it is their choice to decide who gets whatever part in their movie. If people don't like their choice then don't pay to watch the movie.

[Tom4784]

Starwars the force awakens has a leading actor which goes directly against what you are saying.

Great, name me a few hundred more so we can BEGIN the discussion on how the scales have been balanced.

One film means jack ****.

[Marsh.]

No Marsh i am not saying it makes it all right at all. I am saying the whole argument is ridiculous because movies are made to make money for the makers and their backers and it is their choice to decide who gets whatever part in their movie. If people don't like their choice then don't pay to watch the movie.

Yes and many people choose to not pay for the movies for a variety of reasons.

It's not really addressing the issue now is it?

[Johnnyuk123]

Great, name me a few hundred more so we can BEGIN the discussion on how the scales have been balanced.

One film means jack ****.

So you are saying that movies MUST address every race in order for it to be acceptable. I don't accept that point of view at all.

[Tom4784]

No Marsh i am not saying it makes it all right at all. I am saying the whole argument is ridiculous because movies are made to make money for the makers and their backers and it is their choice to decide who gets whatever part in their movie. If people don't like their choice then don't pay to watch the movie.

Well no that's not how it works, dear.

Films need to make money, in order to make money you have to sell tickets, in order to sell tickets you need to appeal to the audience. The fact that this story has gotten so much traction and has become so big is because the audience is sick of the Hollywood norm.

Studios don't just make a bunch of uninformed decisions and tell their audiences to like it or lump it, when making a film they'll do market research and they'll conduct test screenings and focus groups to make sure that the film appeals to the right audience. If you want to make money you have to listen to the wants of the audience.

[Ammi]

No Marsh i am not saying it makes it all right at all. I am saying the whole argument is ridiculous because movies are made to make money for the makers and their backers and it is their choice to decide who gets whatever part in their movie. If people don't like their choice then don't pay to watch the movie.

...yeah but the point is though Johnny/Spike Lee's point that is ...is that no black movie executives etc are in on any of those decisions in the first place with the backers and casting producers etc...that it's easier for a black person to become the President of the USA than it is to get into the room where all of the choices are made....and if it wasn't like that, if black movie executives were allowed into those discussions, well then the casting...(and equally making as much money..)...would be quite different but bringing equal box office success for a movie...

[Marsh.]

...yeah but the point is though Johnny/Spike Lee's point that is ...is that no black movie executives etc are in on any of those decisions in the first place with the backers and casting producers etc...that it's easier for a black person to become the President of the USA than it is to get into the room where all of the choices are made....and if it wasn't like that, if black movie executives were allowed into those discussions, well then the casting...(and equally making as much money..)...would be quite different but bringing equal box office success for a movie...

That's it. The behind the scenes needs changes.

I remember some actress saying the stuffy old white men are dying off and the younger generation are changing things. :laugh:

Once we have a more varied group of people making movies/stories then we'll see more than the same formulaic crap being pumped out. The ethnicity of the actors cast is the tip of the iceberg really. The whole industry is in a rut.

[bots]

The movie industry does have the appearance similar to that of an exclusive Gentlemen's club - no riff raff allowed. If it were a more inclusive industry, this discussion just wouldn't be needed.

[Tom4784]

So you are saying that movies MUST address every race in order for it to be acceptable. I don't accept that point of view at all.

Not at all, once again your lack of understanding is apparent.

You mentioned Star Wars and and said that it 'goes directly against what we are saying..'

I'm saying that one film doesn't mean **** and it doesn't fix any of the problems that Hollywood has. I'm not saying there should be a quota (second time I'm saying this...). Just that actors of different ethnicities should be held in the same regard as white actors because they aren't at the moment.

[Johnnyuk123]

...yeah but the point is though Johnny/Spike Lee's point that is ...is that no black movie executives etc are in on any of those decisions in the first place with the backers and casting producers etc...that it's easier for a black person to become the President of the USA than it is to get into the room where all of the choices are made....and if it wasn't like that, if black movie executives were allowed into those discussions, well then the casting...(and equally making as much money..)...would be quite different but bringing equal box office success for a movie...

Hi Ammi, Spike lee would have a point if he had said ALL other races and not just one race but he didn't say that did he. Do all the other races not matter? Where is their representation? It's the movie business and to me the key word here is....business.

[Johnnyuk123]

Not at all, once again your lack of understanding is apparent.

You mentioned Star Wars and and said that it 'goes directly against what we are saying..'

I'm saying that one film doesn't mean **** and it doesn't fix any of the problems that Hollywood has. I'm not saying there should be a quota (second time I'm saying this...). Just that actors of different ethnicities should be held in the same regard as white actors because they aren't at the moment.

Those making the movie can choose whoever they want to put in their movie. Makes no difference to me what race they are. If the movie is sh-it with an all white/black/chinese/french/italian cast then it's still a sh-it movie whoever gets the role.

[Kazanne]

I might be being a bit thick here,but why does colour even matter with everything,why does everything have to be monitored to make sure everything is equal, I have NEVER gone to a movie with the colour of the actors in mind,just want to see a good movie, I don't care if they are sky blue with spots on as long as my money is spent well,it's like when someone wins something so you have to have one,God forbid someone misses out,and while I'm at it,are the MOBO awards ever boycotted?

[Johnnyuk123]

I might be being a bit thick here,but why does colour even matter with everything,why does everything have to be monitored to make sure everything is equal, I have NEVER gone to a movie with the colour of the actors in mind,just want to see a good movie, I don't care if they are sky blue with spots on as long as my money is spent well,it's like when someone wins something so you have to have one,God forbid someone misses out,and while I'm at it,are the MOBO awards ever boycotted?

Thanks for mentioning the MOBO's Kaz because if we are to be correct within this industry of film and music then all other races should now be selected for a MOBO.

[Kazanne]

Thanks for mentioning the MOBO's Kaz because if we are to be correct within this industry of film and music then all other races should now be selected for a MOBO.

It's just something that really is not that important in the grand scheme of things, it's a statue at the end of the day,they are all spoilt enough imo,lol,Lots of people never get recognition for what they do, people should deal with it, black or white ,we are people ,not colours.

[Ammi]

Hi Ammi, Spike lee would have a point if he had said ALL other races and not just one race but he didn't say that did he. Do all the other races not matter? Where is their representation? It's the movie business and to me the key word here is....business.

..he did actually say minorities, Johnny ...


“I wanna be in the room where it happens.” People, the truth is, we ain’t in those rooms and until minorities are, the Oscar nominees will remain lily white.

[Marsh.]

I might be being a bit thick here,but why does colour even matter with everything,why does everything have to be monitored to make sure everything is equal, I have NEVER gone to a movie with the colour of the actors in mind,just want to see a good movie, I don't care if they are sky blue with spots on as long as my money is spent well,it's like when someone wins something so you have to have one,God forbid someone misses out,and while I'm at it,are the MOBO awards ever boycotted?

It becomes a problem when so many non-white actors aren't getting work?

[Marsh.]

Thanks for mentioning the MOBO's Kaz because if we are to be correct within this industry of film and music then all other races should now be selected for a MOBO.

Do you even know what the MOBO awards are? :umm2:

All races ARE included.

Adele won an award ffs :joker:

[Johnnyuk123]

..he did actually say minorities, Johnny ...


“I wanna be in the room where it happens.” People, the truth is, we ain’t in those rooms and until minorities are, the Oscar nominees will remain lily white.

Fair enough Ammi.:wavey:

[Johnnyuk123]

Do you even know what the MOBO awards are? :umm2:

All races ARE included.

Adele won an award ffs :joker:

Yes but K Pop are still not represented equally yet.

[Kazanne]

Do you even know what the MOBO awards are? :umm2:

All races ARE included.

Adele won an award ffs :joker:

They are marsh,and don't you be swearing at Kazanne,lol,
BUT it is predominately for ethnic music,The MOBO Awards for "Music of Black Origin" were established in 1996 by Kanya King and Andy Ruffell. The MOBO Award show is held annually in the United Kingdom to recognise artists of any ethnicity or nationality performing black music. In 2009, the awards ceremony was held in Glasgow for the first time. Prior to that, it had been held in London. In 2011, the ceremony returned to Scotland for a second time. The awards then moved to Leeds for 2015.

The Music Of Black Origin (MOBO) Awards were established in 1996 to recognise and celebrate artists who create Black or urban music. The MOBOs may be the most prestigious but were not the first Black music awards show in the country. In Britain, the Black Music Awards (BMA) show ran from 1992 to 1996 in various venues in London.[1][2] For non-music shows, the Afro Hair and Beauty show was set up by Dyke and Dryden beauty company in 1982,[3] and is still an annual event in London.

The first MOBO award was presented to UK trio Baby D, in the Best Dance Act category.[4] The MOBO Awards are seen as a UK equivalent to the BET Awards and Soul Train Awards for being the main award show in Britain to focus on Urban music.

[Marsh.]

They are marsh,and don't you be swearing at Kazanne,lol,
BUT it is predominately for ethnic music,The MOBO Awards for "Music of Black Origin" were established in 1996 by Kanya King and Andy Ruffell. The MOBO Award show is held annually in the United Kingdom to recognise artists of any ethnicity or nationality performing black music. In 2009, the awards ceremony was held in Glasgow for the first time. Prior to that, it had been held in London. In 2011, the ceremony returned to Scotland for a second time. The awards then moved to Leeds for 2015.

The Music Of Black Origin (MOBO) Awards were established in 1996 to recognise and celebrate artists who create Black or urban music. The MOBOs may be the most prestigious but were not the first Black music awards show in the country. In Britain, the Black Music Awards (BMA) show ran from 1992 to 1996 in various venues in London.[1][2] For non-music shows, the Afro Hair and Beauty show was set up by Dyke and Dryden beauty company in 1982,[3] and is still an annual event in London.

The first MOBO award was presented to UK trio Baby D, in the Best Dance Act category.[4] The MOBO Awards are seen as a UK equivalent to the BET Awards and Soul Train Awards for being the main award show in Britain to focus on Urban music.

That's a genre of music though. Like the Brit Awards are for pop music. :unsure:

Shows they don't discriminate against white artists who perform in that genre either.

What is Hollywood's excuse?

[Marsh.]

Yes but K Pop are still not represented equally yet.

Yes, just think of all the K-Pop artists in Britain.... :umm2:

[Alf]

Would you not say that Hollywood is the most diverse film industry in the world?

[Marsh.]

Would you not say that Hollywood is the most diverse film industry in the world?

No. I'd say it's monopolised the film industry and no one else gets a look in because the same people are in control of the pots of gold.

[GiRTh]

They are marsh,and don't you be swearing at Kazanne,lol,
BUT it is predominately for ethnic music,The MOBO Awards for "Music of Black Origin" were established in 1996 by Kanya King and Andy Ruffell. The MOBO Award show is held annually in the United Kingdom to recognise artists of any ethnicity or nationality performing black music. In 2009, the awards ceremony was held in Glasgow for the first time. Prior to that, it had been held in London. In 2011, the ceremony returned to Scotland for a second time. The awards then moved to Leeds for 2015.

The Music Of Black Origin (MOBO) Awards were established in 1996 to recognise and celebrate artists who create Black or urban music. The MOBOs may be the most prestigious but were not the first Black music awards show in the country. In Britain, the Black Music Awards (BMA) show ran from 1992 to 1996 in various venues in London.[1][2] For non-music shows, the Afro Hair and Beauty show was set up by Dyke and Dryden beauty company in 1982,[3] and is still an annual event in London.

The first MOBO award was presented to UK trio Baby D, in the Best Dance Act category.[4] The MOBO Awards are seen as a UK equivalent to the BET Awards and Soul Train Awards for being the main award show in Britain to focus on Urban music.
Mobos are no different from the Country Music awards or Latin Grammys

[Kazanne]

Maybe there are just more white actors ( I hate having to write a colour even) don't you think regardless of colour it's a bit of a petty boycott,actors are paid silly amounts of money for the privilege of playing a role.they should get awards if they need them on merit not colour

[Marsh.]

Maybe there are just more white actors ( I hate having to write a colour even) don't you think regardless of colour it's a bit of a petty boycott,actors are paid silly amounts of money for the privilege of playing a role.they should get awards if they need them on merit not colour

The Oscars is the biggest event in the Hollywood calendar so it seems an opportune time to make points about issues within the Hollywood system tbh.

I don't think it's about black people not getting awards, it's using the awards to show how little work Hollywood gives non-white actors etc.

Is it just a fact that all of the people who deserve to be awarded for their work just happen to be white? Or is it a case of only white people getting the work to begin with?

It's a tricky business.

[GiRTh]

Maybe there are just more white actors ( I hate having to write a colour even) don't you think regardless of colour it's a bit of a petty boycott,actors are paid silly amounts of money for the privilege of playing a role.they should get awards if they need them on merit not colourSurely you need to insert the word 'quality' into this sentence to make it into a worthy point. The answer would be 'yes' to your question but as to whether there are more quality actors in any ethnic group, I think the answer is definitely 'no'.

[the truth]

10 black men in the worlds 50 richest actors isn't a bad return

[the truth]

theres only 1 Chinese , despite the fact they make up 25% of the planet

[Marsh.]

10 black men in the worlds 50 richest actors isn't a bad return

Depends if you're talking about what they earn from movies.

Net worth total would incorporate any work they do in any other industry too.

Oprah Winfrey would qualify to appear in a list but she hasn't done much acting in comparison to other things.

It's also littered with Bollywood stars.

[Kizzy]

Jamie Foxx for 007!!

On Monday night, the day before this photo was taken, Foxx heard a loud crash near his home in Hidden Valley, California, and rushed outside. He discovered a truck, flipped on its side and almost engulfed in flames.

The vehicle’s driver was still trapped inside.

With another man's help, Foxx managed to pull the driver, 32-year-old Brett Kyle, out of the truck before fire completely overwhelmed the vehicle.

“As we pulled him out, within five seconds … the truck goes up [in flames],” Foxx told reporters on Tuesday afternoon. “I don’t look at it as heroic. I just look at it as, you know, you just had to do something. And it all worked out.”

Foxx said Kyle’s father, Brad, came to his home the next day to thank him. The emotional dad told CBS Los Angeles how grateful he was for Foxx’s quick action.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jamie-foxx-rescue-dad-embrace_us_569f413de4b0a7026bf99ea6?utm_hp_ref=ent ertainment&ir=Entertainment&section=entertainment

[the truth]

disabled actors have far far far far far more to complain about. other than chris reeves, ive never even seen a wheelchair on the Oscars stage

[Johnnyuk123]

disabled actors have far far far far far more to complain about. other than chris reeves, ive never even seen a wheelchair on the Oscars stage

Your right. Not even the great Stephen Hawking was allowed on the stage to celebrate when Eddie Redmayne won an oscar for playing him in The Theory Of Everything.

[kirklancaster]

This entire subject is an overdone B-O-R-E-F-E-S-T -----in my opinion.Zzzzzzz.

[Ammi]

Would you not say that Hollywood is the most diverse film industry in the world?

..I think that because it is seen as that..(hasn't Idris himself just said that UK actors have to go to the USA/Hollywood for the diversity and that shouldn't be the case...)...that it has to be a leader in giving neutral parts more to black actors...and also, adapting parts if necessary and if that's something that's feasible for the character..I mean it has come some way over the years but just not enough though...even one of my favourite movies, Breakfast at Tiffany's had the 'all American' Mickey Rooney playing Mr Yunioshi in the most dreadfully stereotypical racist way...was there no Asian actors at all that could have been considered, not one single person to seek acting as something they wanted to do..an 'up and coming'...(because 'starlets' were very much the thing I think at that time..)...or was there just none that had been accepted and signed up to a studio...hmmmmm..so yeah, it has progressed but considering that Hollywood is a world leader in movies, then just not even nearly enough...I mean, with changing already established white characters, if that's not changed for us to see black actors in those parts and equally convincing in them with their acting abilities...if that's shied away from in thinking...oh will this be accepted because this character has always been white previously, then nothing will ever change and progress, will it...we have to make those changes first and then see if they're accepted, not anticipate it all in a negative way...


...I was thinking though last night/the further irony of it all...Mel Gibson, the all American 'perfect and can do no wrong, we love you actor'....great for the studio's image, eh...?...when he was openly racist, then he was shunned/his career in ruins..(and rightly so/idiot..)... because pfffft, Hollywood and Hollywood Executives don't approve of and don't condone racism, we'll have none of that here thank you very much...(but obviously we still won't address more roles for black actors in the decision making because that isn't racist....and when there's a perfectly adequate white actor for the role anyway....why look any further than that..?...)...

[arista]

The Oscars is the biggest event in the Hollywood calendar so it seems an opportune time to make points about issues within the Hollywood system tbh.

I don't think it's about black people not getting awards, it's using the awards to show how little work Hollywood gives non-white actors etc.

Is it just a fact that all of the people who deserve to be awarded for their work just happen to be white? Or is it a case of only white people getting the work to begin with?

It's a tricky business.

Yes Spike Lee has a Outside Agenda
he is a Great Director
but not doing well now

So he is going Political
its OK him doing it
but all the fecking actors saying they may join him.


I am Sorry but a New "Black" List will be made
of the White Actors thinking of joining him.

The term Black list - is not about their Color.


Sign Of The Times

[arista]

"because pfffft, Hollywood and Hollywood Executives don't "


Ammi leave them alone , please
they Employ Thousands
Worldwide.

[Ammi]

..:laugh:...apologies Arista, I don't know what came over me there...they're lucky to have you to defend them and realise the good job they're doing...

[Johnnyuk123]

Yes Spike Lee has a Outside Agenda
he is a Great Director
but not doing well now

So he is going Political
its OK him doing it
but all the fecking actors saying they may join him.


I am Sorry but a New "Black" List will be made
of the White Actors thinking of joining him.

The term Black list - is not about their Color.


Sign Of The Times

I wonder what percentage of white actors to black actors get lead roles in his movies? Anyone know?

[Niamh.]

I wonder what percentage of white actors to black actors get lead roles in his movies? Anyone know?

White actors getting parts in movies isn't a problem though, if it were then maybe we'd all be asking why Spike Lee doesn't give parts to white actors? :shrug:

You don't need a solution to something that isn't a problem

[Niamh.]

Lets try to keep this civil please and not get insulting with eachother

[Livia]

If he was a good enough actor and the part was well written I would have no problem with it.

So are you saying Idris isn't Bond simply due to his ethnicity? The quality of his acting doesn't matter, his experience doesn't matter, he's wrong due simply to his ethnicity? Even though all the novels have been adapted and the films being produced are brand new stories, we still cant veer far from the novels description of Bond? I hope the Broccoli family say 'stuff that' and give the job to the best actor available.

Yes, I am saying Idris would not be a good Bond simply on his ethnicity.

Have you read the books? Have you seen the situations Bond got himself into? No way would a black man be able to melt into the background like a white man could in certain situations. It has to at least be believable.

And as much as I love Idris, and think he's wonderful as Luthur (Who could equally have been played by a black or a white actor) I think he would be an awful Bond. If a black Bond was inevitable I'd rather Colin Salmon who is much more Bond-esque, in my opinion.

[Niamh.]

Yes, I am saying Idris would not be a good Bond simply on his ethnicity.

Have you read the books? Have you seen the situations Bond got himself into? No way would a black man be able to melt into the background like a white man could in certain situations. It has to at least be believable.

And as much as I love Idris, and think he's wonderful as Luthur (Who could equally have been played by a black or a white actor) I think he would be an awful Bond. If a black Bond was inevitable I'd rather Colin Salmon who is much more Bond-esque, in my opinion.

The movies have moved on from the books though, if it were still set back in 50's I might think you had a point but it isn't it's set in present times

[Jamie89]

Yes, I am saying Idris would not be a good Bond simply on his ethnicity.

Have you read the books? Have you seen the situations Bond got himself into? No way would a black man be able to melt into the background like a white man could in certain situations. It has to at least be believable.

And as much as I love Idris, and think he's wonderful as Luthur (Who could equally have been played by a black or a white actor) I think he would be an awful Bond. If a black Bond was inevitable I'd rather Colin Salmon who is much more Bond-esque, in my opinion.

Bond is a fantasy though, it's probably unlikely that anyone could get into most of the situations that he gets into. And the films being produced now aren't based on the original books, they're new stories so I don't see how the situations he's in (in the books) would be relevant.

If an invisible car is believable then a black Bond certainly is :laugh:

[Livia]

The movies have moved on from the books though, if it were still set back in 50's I might think you had a point but it isn't it's set in present times

The principles of spying are much the same, you can't stick out like a sore thumb, and a black Bond in rural Russia, for instance, would.

I've sat through a Royal Shakespeare Company production of Henry V where Nigerian actor David Oyelowo played the English King. Now I really rate him as an actor, but what's the point of casting him as a white king? The whole thing centred around the joke that one of Henry V's names was 'Leroy'.

[Livia]

Bond is a fantasy though, it's probably unlikely that anyone could get into most of the situations that he gets into. And the films being produced now aren't based on the original books, they're new stories so I don't see how the situations he's in (in the books) would be relevant.

If an invisible car is believable then a black Bond certainly is :laugh:

I'm really wasting my time explaining anything.

[Niamh.]

The principles of spying are much the same, you can't stick out like a sore thumb, and a black Bond in rural Russia, for instance, would.

I've sat through a Royal Shakespeare Company production of Henry V where Nigerian actor David Oyelowo played the English King. Now I really rate him as an actor, but what's the point of casting him as a white king? The whole thing centred around the joke that one of Henry V's names was 'Leroy'.

But you can jump from a building to helicopter without a scratch? ( -insert mad stunt that could never happen in real life here- )

[Livia]

But you can jump from a building to helicopter without a scratch? ( -insert mad stunt that could never happen in real life here- )



There's a lot of unbelievable stuff in Bond, but it has a basis in MI6. It has to be at least in part believable, and MI6 operatives after a long discussion, have decided that 007 could not be black and have done all the things he's done. Are we going to completely forget the back story? Suddenly change him from a black man to a white man?

Like I said before, I look forward to the new version of Shaft staring Damien Lewis.

[Niamh.]

There's a lot of unbelievable stuff in Bond, but it has a basis in MI6. It has to be at least in part believable, and MI6 operatives after a long discussion, have decided that 007 could not be black and have done all the things he's done. Are we going to completely forget the back story? Suddenly change him from a black man to a white man?

Like I said before, I look forward to the new version of Shaft staring Damien Lewis.

Why would that be such a big issue, what was so important about his skin colour in the back story?

[Livia]

Why would that be such a big issue, what was so important about his skin colour in the back story?

Because in the back story he's always been a white man! Just like Shaft is a black man! I don't think they should change his ethnicity either!

[Niamh.]

Because in the back story he's always been a white man! Just like Shaft is a black man! I don't think they should change his ethnicity either!

Shaft isn't an endless series of films that constantly change actor though are they even making a new Shaft movie?

[user104658]

I do agree with Livia here; Bond can't be black unless it's a(nother) reboot. It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.

I had a similar discussion over in the movies forum about "black Hermione". Black Hermione in a new interpretation of the source material, i.e. a new play based on the first book and onwards, would in my opinion be 100% fine. Suddenly casting a black Hermione in a direct sequel to the already established interpretation does not work. Because that Hermione is not black.

I used the current CW series of The Flash as an example here too: Wally West has just appeared in the series, an established character from the comics, and in the show he is black whereas in others he's been white. There's no problem there at all, because this is his FIRST appearence in THIS interpretation of The Flash, he is a character based on the source character, they are not necessarily the same character... in exactly the same way that the "Smallville" Green Arrow and the "Arrow" Green Arrow are based on the same source material but are clearly not the same character.

Other examples, and sorry for all the superhero **** :joker:

Toby maguire and Andrew Garfield (and now Tom Holland) are NOT the same Spider-man; they could have cast anyone... each is a new interpretation.

Terence Howard and Don Cheadle ARE the same War Machine. He is established. And so changing the actor to a Japanese guy in Iron Man 2 would have been ludicrous; he had to "stay black".

In other words... I'm a bit of a stickler for fiction and canon, and for me, each interpretation of a character becomes as if they are that human being. Slight appearance changes / actor changes are one thing, changing something so fundamental that it would change the character's entire backstory is another thing. Tl;dr - for me, the established Bond can no more change his race than you or I can, in order for me to consider it "good fiction", and not break my immersion. The established Bond is who he is.

Now... all of that said... I wouldn't particularly have any problem with them rebooting Bond again after Daniel Craig leaves, and casting a black Bond with a different back story, and a different set of "old missions" under his belt as experience. I think the reboot worked well this time around - for those not in the know... Connery all the way up to Brosnan were all "the same Bond" - Daniel Craig is NOT that same Bond, but an entirely new character.

Having "sets" of three or four movies each with a completely "fresh" Bond would work fairly well (a reboot with each actor change), IMO. But they would have to make that clear. A new origin story for a new Bond.

[Livia]

Shaft isn't an endless series of films that constantly change actor though are they even making a new Shaft movie?

No, not as far as I know. I'm using it as an analogy.

And yes, the Bond films constantly change actor.... and they've ALL been white! Just like the character in the books! But now political correctness dictates we should consider a black man for the role. And if anyone objects, they're obviously a racist.

[Livia]

I do agree with Livia here;



http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpt6cBYVe1r0ojhto1_400.gif

[user104658]

Why would that be such a big issue, what was so important about his skin colour in the back story?

Like Livia says he was in spying situations that would no longer make sense; e.g. Pierce Brosnan bond was at times undercover as a native Russian. If you then cast a black Bond as the SAME Bond his historical missions are "broken".

"Yeah I've been under-cover in Russia. Err... HOW you ask...? Err... umm... well... I sort of used to be white...".

[Livia]

Thanks TS... Even I was beginning to think I'm a racist!

[Niamh.]

No, not as far as I know. I'm using it as an analogy.

And yes, the Bond films constantly change actor.... and they've ALL been white! Just like the character in the books! But now political correctness dictates we should consider a black man for the role. And if anyone objects, they're obviously a racist.

I never called you racist :nono:

I just disagree with your view on this one but anyway I think we're going round in circles now.

Idris for Bond! :p

[Livia]

I never called you racist :nono:

I just disagree with your view on this one but anyway I think we're going round in circles now.

Idris for Bond! :p

Not you Niamh... I like that we can completely disagree without calling each other names. You bitch.

Did I mention I met him on Monday? I've bored just about everyone else with the story.

[Niamh.]

Not you Niamh... I like that we can completely disagree without calling each other names. You bitch.

Did I mention I met him on Monday? I've bored just about everyone else with the story.

haha yeah i saw you mention it alright :love: What was he like in person?

[user104658]

Thanks TS... Even I was beginning to think I'm a racist!


I like to keep my fiction and my politics separate basically... I love both but not at the same time. THAT is the important thing. I don't give a stuff who or what they cast or who feels offended or hurt or left out by it along the way... the escapism is more important when it comes to entertainment. Big changes break the 4th wall, they remind you that it's "just a story, just people playing pretend". And that's no ****ing fun :joker:

[Livia]

haha yeah i saw you mention it alright :love: What was he like in person?

He was expensively dressed, smelt gorgeous and had something of the animal about him. Every woman there would have done tricks for him LOL... I only got to speak to him briefly but I definitely would have if he'd asked.

I like to keep my fiction and my politics separate basically... I love both but not at the same time. THAT is the important thing. I don't give a stuff who or what they cast or who feels offended or hurt or left out by it along the way... the escapism is more important when it comes to entertainment. Big changes break the 4th wall, they remind you that it's "just a story, just people playing pretend". And that's no ****ing fun :joker:

One of those rare occasions when I agree completely. I'm sure I can feel a disturbance in The Force.

[Niamh.]

He was expensively dressed, smelt gorgeous and had something of the animal about him. Every woman there would have done tricks for him LOL... I only got to speak to him briefly but I definitely would have if he'd asked.



One of those rare occasions when I agree completely. I'm sure I can feel a disturbance in The Force.

mmmmmmm :flutter: