Danish parliament approves plan to 'seize assets' from refugees

[JoshBB]

I usually look to the nordic countries as perfect examples of the direction the UK should go in, but this seems incredibly cruel to me.. this is similar (but not the same obviously) to the way Nazis took valuables from Jewish people from WW2. It makes me really sad to see stories like this.

I can understand there are limits to how many refugees that can be taken in, countries like Sweden & Germany have taken in too many than can possibly looked after, and I blame countries like our own for that - with a population of ~65 million we really could do more than just 4,000, but to take valuables from refugees just seems utterly demoralising and heartless. I don't know how they can justify it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

[Tom4784]

So it's state approved robbery aimed some at the most vulnerable people that are in need of aid.

Insane.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I usually look to the nordic countries as perfect examples of the direction the UK should go in, but this seems incredibly cruel to me.. this is similar (but not the same obviously) to the way Nazis took valuables from Jewish people from WW2. It makes me really sad to see stories like this.

I can understand there are limits to how many refugees that can be taken in, countries like Sweden & Germany have taken in too many than can possibly looked after, and I blame countries like our own for that - with a population of ~65 million we really could do more than just 4,000, but to take valuables from refugees just seems utterly demoralising and heartless. I don't know how they can justify it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

"this is similar (but not the same obviously) to the way Nazis took valuables from Jewish people from WW2. "

no, it really isnt

[Crimson Dynamo]

The bill states that asylum seekers who arrive with more than 10,000 kroner (€1,340) in cash “will have to [use]the surplus above 10,000 kroner to pay for their stay”


:nono: I think they should be allowed to keep it and buy a kindle, some wine and a hoverboard

[DemolitionRed]

Danish parliament approves plan to seize assets from refugees
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

Court cases are still going on to return assets to the Jews that were taken by Nazi Germany prior to WW2. I wonder if we will see similar court cases from the Syrians 50 years from now.

[jennyjuniper]

I live in Denmark and while I have the utmost contempt for Lars Løkke Rasmussen (a nest featherer if ever there was one) I can't but agree that if possible refugees should contribute to their stay here. It's true that Danes cannot claim social benefits if they own their own house or have more than 16,000 kroner (about 1,500pounds.)
So why should people who come here be any different.
Of course if they have no intention of claiming benefits, then those rules shouldn't apply.

[smudgie]

I live in Denmark and while I have the utmost contempt for Lars Løkke Rasmussen (a nest featherer if ever there was one) I can't but agree that if possible refugees should contribute to their stay here. It's true that Danes cannot claim social benefits if they own their own house or have more than 16,000 kroner (about 1,500pounds.)
So why should people who come here be any different.
Of course if they have no intention of claiming benefits, then those rules shouldn't apply.

On that basis, then fair enough.

[arista]

So it's state approved robbery aimed some at the most vulnerable people that are in need of aid.

Insane.


No its being done to stop the large amounts
arriving in a Very Small Nation , Dezzy

[arista]

I live in Denmark and while I have the utmost contempt for Lars Løkke Rasmussen (a nest featherer if ever there was one) I can't but agree that if possible refugees should contribute to their stay here. It's true that Danes cannot claim social benefits if they own their own house or have more than 16,000 kroner (about 1,500pounds.)
So why should people who come here be any different.
Of course if they have no intention of claiming benefits, then those rules shouldn't apply.


Yes Our Left Wing Media
are Sheet Stirring it all

[arista]

I usually look to the nordic countries as perfect examples of the direction the UK should go in, but this seems incredibly cruel to me.. this is similar (but not the same obviously) to the way Nazis took valuables from Jewish people from WW2. It makes me really sad to see stories like this.

I can understand there are limits to how many refugees that can be taken in, countries like Sweden & Germany have taken in too many than can possibly looked after, and I blame countries like our own for that - with a population of ~65 million we really could do more than just 4,000, but to take valuables from refugees just seems utterly demoralising and heartless. I don't know how they can justify it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees


No
as the Nazi then Murdered them.


Denmark is a small nation
do you do geography , at all?

[JoshBB]

No
as the Nazi then Murdered them.


Denmark is a small nation
do you do geography , at all?

"(but not the same obviously)"

I know it's a small nation, but I don't think this is an excusable way to 'deter' refugees.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"(but not the same obviously)"

I know it's a small nation, but I don't think this is an excusable way to 'deter' refugees.

Its a democratic choice, who are you to call out democracy?

[JoshBB]

Its a democratic choice, who are you to call out democracy?

???

I'm voicing my opinion on what I perceive to be a disgusting policy made, and doing so only strengthens democracy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

???

I'm voicing my opinion on what I perceive to be a disgusting policy made, and doing so only strengthens democracy.

Jenny has explained it to you from Denmark?

What bit dont you get

[JoshBB]

Jenny has explained it to you from Denmark?

What bit dont you get

Jenny is entitled to have her opinion on Denmark's refugee policy, as am I. She would know more about the extent of migration in Denmark than I would, however I can still voice my personal disgust with the seizing of assets. We live in a globalist world.

Democracy is about listening to different people's views on a subject, not shutting down anything which does not fit the mainstream narrative.

[arista]

"(but not the same obviously)"

I know it's a small nation, but I don't think this is an excusable way to 'deter' refugees.


Evil Nazi Dug Out Gold from Jews Teeth

Denmark Action
is nothing like what you posted
1st post.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Evil Nazi Dug Out Gold from Jews Teeth

Denmark Action
is nothing like what you posted
1st post.

Josh always compares things like this (wrongly) to actions of the Nazis

he has form

[Kizzy]

Josh always compares things like this (wrongly) to actions of the Nazis

he has form

To be fair he's not the first to make the comparison...

'Earlier this month, government spokesman Marcus Knuth told the Guardian it was “ludicrous” to compare the new law to the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust, since similar laws apply to Danish citizens on welfare benefits. “We’re simply applying the same rules we apply to Danish citizens who wish to take money from the Danish government,” Knuth said.

But opponents of the law argue that while refugees can in general still expect to be treated humanely in Denmark, the new legislation is ethically unsound. Pernille Skipper, an MP and legal affairs spokesperson for Enhedslisten, a leftwing Danish party, said: “Morally it is a horrible way to treat people fleeing mass crimes, war, rapes. They are fleeing from war and how do we treat them? We take their jewellery.”

Klaus Petersen, professor at the Centre for Welfare State Research at the University of Southern Denmark, confirmed that Danish welfare claimants have to give up their savings before they receive benefits – but not their valuables, unlike refugees. They will also not be searched except in rare circumstances.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be fair he's not the first to make the comparison...

'Earlier this month, government spokesman Marcus Knuth told the Guardian it was “ludicrous” to compare the new law to the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust, since similar laws apply to Danish citizens on welfare benefits. “We’re simply applying the same rules we apply to Danish citizens who wish to take money from the Danish government,” Knuth said.

But opponents of the law argue that while refugees can in general still expect to be treated humanely in Denmark, the new legislation is ethically unsound. Pernille Skipper, an MP and legal affairs spokesperson for Enhedslisten, a leftwing Danish party, said: “Morally it is a horrible way to treat people fleeing mass crimes, war, rapes. They are fleeing from war and how do we treat them? We take their jewellery.”

Klaus Petersen, professor at the Centre for Welfare State Research at the University of Southern Denmark, confirmed that Danish welfare claimants have to give up their savings before they receive benefits – but not their valuables, unlike refugees. They will also not be searched except in rare circumstances.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

Somehow I am not sure that people fleeing war and rape in Syria etc find themselves in Denmark....

[Northern Monkey]

Hence why they all want to get through as many safe countries as possible and make a break through the Channel Tunnel.Because we're soft as ****.If they can get here they'll get benefits and housing galore.

[Johnnyuk123]

I support the Danes 100% on this issue.

[kirklancaster]

Somehow I am not sure that people fleeing war and rape in Syria etc find themselves in Denmark....

You are wasting your time LT.

[Kizzy]

Somehow I am not sure that people fleeing war and rape in Syria etc find themselves in Denmark....

Because Denmark welcome refugees obv...

The UN Refugee Convention was approved in 1951. Denmark was the first state to ratify the treaty. Today 144 countries have signed the convention.
According to the Refugee Convention the definition of a refugee is:
” A person who owing to a well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”
In the Danish Aliens Act §7 (1) refers to this definition and thereby gives status as a convention refugee (K-status).
The refugee convention includes the ”non-refoulement” principle that concludes that no person should be sent back to persecution or to a third country that will send the person back to persecution.
Denmark has also signed several conventions that ban torture, the death penalty and other kinds of inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment. This protection status (B-status) can be found in the Danish Aliens Act §7 (2).
Refugees can also be covered by a number of other conventions, which Denmark has signed, amongst others the European Convention on Human Rights, United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, United Nations two conventions on statelessness, United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women and United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.'

http://refugeeswelcome.dk/en/facts/

[Vicky.]

I don't know what to think of this...if they have like 50k worthy of jewelry or something then it could be seen as acceptable to expect them to sell to fund some of their life in the safe country they chose. But how likely is it that this will be the case? I cannot see refugees having anything much...given they have just upped and left their own homes?

Ugh. I just don't know. I can see why if there are a few examples such as above (which I doubt) but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth taking more away from those who have little or nothing to start with :S

[Vicky.]

Following similar moves in Switzerland and southern Germany, Denmark’s parliament voted on Tuesday to allow police to search asylum seekers on arrival in the country and confiscate any non-essential items worth more than 10,000 Danish kroner (about £1,000) that have no sentimental value to their owner. And there is the workaround for it surely? Noone else can prove an item has no sentimental value to you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

[Vicky.]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

It does seem a bit strange that it does usually appear to be fit young men...but maybe that is because they ant to work here and send money back for their families or something? I know thats the case with a lot of Polish people..one member of the family comes for money, and sends the money home each payday.

[Kizzy]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

'According to the United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR), the statistical breakdown of the refugees are pretty much split 50-50 between men and women.
However, of those who have travelled by sea through the Mediterranean, 69% are male adults, 18% are children and 13% are female adults.
UNHCR Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean

Now, not all of these are Syrians, although the majority of them are. There are also a number of people from Afghanistan and a small number from Eritrea and various other countries (all of which contribute 3% or less to the total). It is likely that a large number of these people who have made the journey anyway, as Europe generally receives tens of thousands of asylum seekers each year.

While the majority of those seeking asylum in Europe might be adult males, the statistics from the UNHCR show that of the total refugees coming out of the Syrian conflict, the split is pretty even, and around 38% of them are children under 12.

There isn't just one reason why hundreds of thousands of people make the decision to travel on this perilous path. There are a number of reasons why it might be adult males making the journey by sea:

The threat of daily violence has become too much to bear
Fear of forced conscription in Syria by both the government and Islamist groups, including ISIS
Better economic opportunities
Easier for men to undertake the journey by themselves than with their families or their partners, both financially and physically'

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-refugees-young-men

[Tom4784]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

The media have decided that the image of a dead child being washed up on a shore is only good for treating refugees like humans for a few months but nothing more than that. We're back to the ol' 'Refugees are scrounging scum that are barely human' viewpoint now and so most of the mainstream media will only present images that reinforce that view. They'll focus on imagery of young men because it's easier for people like you to distrust them.

[DemolitionRed]

The media have decided that the image of a dead child being washed up on a shore is only good for treating refugees like humans for a few months but nothing more than that. We're back to the ol' 'Refugees are scrounging scum that are barely human' viewpoint now and so most of the mainstream media will only present images that reinforce that view. They'll focus on imagery of young men because it's easier for people like you to distrust them.

I find all this propaganda nonsense really alarming and the way people swallow it so gustily, depressing.

[DemolitionRed]

'According to the United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR), the statistical breakdown of the refugees are pretty much split 50-50 between men and women.
However, of those who have travelled by sea through the Mediterranean, 69% are male adults, 18% are children and 13% are female adults.
UNHCR Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean

Now, not all of these are Syrians, although the majority of them are. There are also a number of people from Afghanistan and a small number from Eritrea and various other countries (all of which contribute 3% or less to the total). It is likely that a large number of these people who have made the journey anyway, as Europe generally receives tens of thousands of asylum seekers each year.

While the majority of those seeking asylum in Europe might be adult males, the statistics from the UNHCR show that of the total refugees coming out of the Syrian conflict, the split is pretty even, and around 38% of them are children under 12.

There isn't just one reason why hundreds of thousands of people make the decision to travel on this perilous path. There are a number of reasons why it might be adult males making the journey by sea:

The threat of daily violence has become too much to bear
Fear of forced conscription in Syria by both the government and Islamist groups, including ISIS
Better economic opportunities
Easier for men to undertake the journey by themselves than with their families or their partners, both financially and physically'

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-refugees-young-men

Thank you Kizzy.
Sadly, people don't read information they don't want to know and so there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.

[empire]

its about time a country grow a pair, and make them refugees understand that nothing is free in this world, why do you think that the danish people's party knocked out the socialists majority last year, because the people their are fed up, the welfare system in western europe only attracts flies to a blue light, charity starts at home,

[DemolitionRed]

its about time a country grow a pair, and make them refugees understand that nothing is free in this world, why do you think that the danish people's party knocked out the socialists majority last year, because the people their are fed up, the welfare system in western europe only attracts flies to a blue light, charity starts at home,

Says the man who feels safe on his own turf.

[Ammi]

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

[Kizzy]

its about time a country grow a pair, and make them refugees understand that nothing is free in this world, why do you think that the danish people's party knocked out the socialists majority last year, because the people their are fed up, the welfare system in western europe only attracts flies to a blue light, charity starts at home,

Flies, cockroaches, swarms, marauders... Credit where it's due Mr Pickles ( eek!) has a point.

'Sir Eric Pickles, who served in Cameron’s Cabinet in the last Government as the Communities Secretary, drew parallels with the Kindertransport scheme that rescued children from Nazi Germany in the months before the Second World War broke out.
'We need to remember that the last train that was disrupted by the war, only two of those children survived and they along with their families were killed. But I think there are some clear parallels that we need to address,' he said in a Commons debate yesterday.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417482/David-Cameron-dismisses-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-call-UK-thousands-Calais-migrants.html

[Kizzy]

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

So if this is the case Ammi where is this information, and how is it possible they can read one thing and form the polar opposite opinion...it makes little sense that in all seriousness. What else can be concluded when information is constantly provided and the same tired phrases are trotted out, it's wearing, and I find it personally exasperating.

[Johnnyuk123]

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

Well said Ammi.:clap1:
Sadly there are many people who view the world always as a glass half empty rather than a glass half full. Leave them to it i say. That record will always be played over and over regardless of what the topic of discussion is because that's all they know.

[UserSince2005]

At the end of the day if I wanted government help I'd need to spend all my savings, sell my car and sell my home. Why shouldn't migrants have to do the same to receive government help?

[Kizzy]

Well said Ammi.:clap1:
Sadly there are many people who view the world always as a glass half empty rather than a glass half full. Leave them to it i say. That record will always be played over and over regardless of what the topic of discussion is because that's all they know.

What record?... Fight the power?

[DemolitionRed]

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

Are you suggesting we can judge the world but we can't judge the perceived reaction of people on here?

I see a lot of immigrant bashing going on within these four walls from certain members. People who all too often write once short senseless paragraph that says nothing other than, 'fcuk em'.

Give me educational links to back up any side of a debate and I'll scrutinize both but give me some ill judged reaction without backing it up, then whatever your side is...I'm not on it.

[Scarlett.]

Its a democratic choice, who are you to call out democracy?

As if true democracy even exists anymore :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Are you suggesting we can judge the world but we can't judge the perceived reaction of people on here?

I see a lot of immigrant bashing going on within these four walls from certain members. People who all too often write once short senseless paragraph that says nothing other than, 'fcuk em'.

Give me educational links to back up any side of a debate and I'll scrutinize both but give me some ill judged reaction without backing it up, then whatever your side is...I'm not on it.

Fair point well made, you can't just presume some are well read and give them the benefit of the doubt that any old spiel spouted is credible, I'm sorry call me a cynic but not buying that at all either.
So yes I feel justified shutting down the debate too if that's all on offer to counter any research I put forward, some half baked headline... jog on. :laugh:

[Scarlett.]

At the end of the day if I wanted government help I'd need to spend all my savings, sell my car and sell my home. Why shouldn't migrants have to do the same to receive government help?

Because they're refugees, not immagrints, I don't think people grasp how badly ****ed up Syria became in such a short span of time, maybe these will help.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/online/2014/1/24/1390581956343/A-street-in-Homs-Syria-in-001.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&

http://hotpenguin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/0141.jpg

http://www.selfiesforsyria.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/syria6.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAJfHGZU0AAmadB.jpg

[Kizzy]

Chewy that is so sad, it's totally desecrated... I don't think judging by what Pickles said there's any time left for the refugees left there :(
I wonder sometimes if there was ever a plan to rescue them.

[Johnnyuk123]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q5R7QomD-Lw/TQAZgNYxUaI/AAAAAAAAAHk/4n_uIb4Vlws/s1600/cynical-glass-half-empty.jpg

[lostalex]

I think America still deserves reparations for the wars in the middle east that we've gotten involved in since 9/11. we've spent BILLIONS helping muslims and on the wars to fight the extremist muslims, when are we going to be paid back by arabs and muslims??

Donald trump is a joke, but he does make some good points, just like a broken clock gets it right twice a day... why haven't we made the arabs pay us back for all we have done for them in the past 15 years?? maybe we should just take their oil.

[jennyjuniper]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

I've noticed that too. Late last year we got 90 refugees in our town and all the one I've seen are fit looking young men.

[jennyjuniper]

I see mostly young men in their twenties when i see these migrants

how come they are the only ones fleeing war and rape?

I've noticed that too. Late last year we got 90 refugees in our town and all the one I've seen are young and healthy looking.

[Ammi]

Are you suggesting we can judge the world but we can't judge the perceived reaction of people on here?

I see a lot of immigrant bashing going on within these four walls from certain members. People who all too often write once short senseless paragraph that says nothing other than, 'fcuk em'.

Give me educational links to back up any side of a debate and I'll scrutinize both but give me some ill judged reaction without backing it up, then whatever your side is...I'm not on it.

..it's not about 'immigrant bashing' as you call it or 'perceived reactions' because nothing was allowed for in 'there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.'....that's an assumption and a presumption that is not for you or anyone else to make because you don't know what anyone reads or what anyone doesn't read and it's a very condescending and quite 'superior' remark..it's also quite attacking, there was no waiting to see any reading or any comments after that reading, if any were made..?...all there was, was a condescending and judgemental 'there are only a few people on here who will bother to read', which is also very ironic, given the topic...all these things do/these remarks is to detract from what's being discussed..they not only don't add anything but they so often start a path of what has sadly so often become a series of personal comments of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the last while, to the point that not only does the topic become lost in it all, but it truly does make it difficult for others to join a thread or have any inclination to do so, because of personal agendas and the silliness of it all....you didn't 'scrutinize' anything because you didn't allow for anything to be scrutinized, you made an offensive pre-judgement that 'people wouldn't bother' and you aimed it specifically at posters in the thread..I'm sure that you'll agree that, that won't encourage debate but lead to 'defensiveness' which will only take off track and starts to kill all debate....a real basic 'no, no' in debate, you could say....and also not in any way, judging or opposing someone's views but judging them personally and in my opinion, in quite a 'superior' way....

..anyways, other than the topic itself, if I join the discussion..this will be the last post/response etc I make because this again, is only detracting from the debate....I love the debate section, I love the discussions and I think it's sad and a shame that so many threads/so many debates are marred/detracted from, because of unnecessary personal judgements...'will bother to read' is not judging an opinion, it's judging a person or people, before they've even had an opportunity to read or comment if they choose to do so.. and not only unnecessary but also without any foundation...

[Ammi]

Because they're refugees, not immagrints, I don't think people grasp how badly ****ed up Syria became in such a short span of time, maybe these will help.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/online/2014/1/24/1390581956343/A-street-in-Homs-Syria-in-001.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&

http://hotpenguin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/0141.jpg

http://www.selfiesforsyria.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/syria6.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAJfHGZU0AAmadB.jpg



..I know Chewy, these are people who have so little anyway and I don't personally think that any 'familiars' that they may bring should be taken because of possible monetary value....but I do also understand the thought process of it, of 'fair'..and if the general public feel that it's not fair to them who have had to deplete savings etc or any little they personally have before being given any government help...then that in itself won't help in the acceptance of immigrants either, will it....I mean, it's just going to further the 'what about us' thought process and the circle goes round and round and more feelings of negativity and 'opposed'....it's trying to get that balance really of we must help if we are able to but with stretched finances, how long would that be possible..?...I really don't know what the answer to that is, I don't think it's this but it's finding what it is, isn't it...

[arista]

The media have decided that the image of a dead child being washed up on a shore is only good for treating refugees like humans for a few months but nothing more than that. We're back to the ol' 'Refugees are scrounging scum that are barely human' viewpoint now and so most of the mainstream media will only present images that reinforce that view. They'll focus on imagery of young men because it's easier for people like you to distrust them.


Wrong Dezzy
Ch4HD News Live in Europe
has shown more are Men.
Even BBCNews has shown the same

Its not being made up at all.


Yes there are some mothers and children
but not like the Young Men totals.

[kirklancaster]

..and sadly people feel they know and can judge what peope do and don't read and whether they 'bother' to do something or not...people read the same information and take different things from that information and what one person takes is just as valid as something another person takes...and the 'swallowing' of propaganda is not specific to a section of people either...in this thread and many of these threads, opinions are given with reasons and reasoning, whether agreed with or not...they're not just thrown out there for the heck of it and come from equal intelligence and equal information, which have helped form their own views etc...this for me personally is a complicated topic and one which I would want to give some thought to and not have any 'knee-jerk' rections because this might not be by any means, an ideal thing but at least it's trying to aim for a 'fair soloution'/what the Danish Government feel to be fair and something, I feel to be considered and not just immediately dismissed....what's sad is that these things can't be discussed and opinions and thoughts shared without so much personal jufgement.../it really, really just kills debate, rather than encourage it....the topic itself/news story is interesting enough, there's no need to comment on anything other than it...

:worship::worship::worship:

[Kizzy]

..it's not about 'immigrant bashing' as you call it or 'perceived reactions' because nothing was allowed for in 'there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.'....that's an assumption and a presumption that is not for you or anyone else to make because you don't know what anyone reads or what anyone doesn't read and it's a very condescending and quite 'superior' remark..it's also quite attacking, there was no waiting to see any reading or any comments after that reading, if any were made..?...all there was, was a condescending and judgemental 'there are only a few people on here who will bother to read', which is also very ironic, given the topic...all these things do/these remarks is to detract from what's being discussed..they not only don't add anything but they so often start a path of what has sadly so often become a series of personal comments of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the last while, to the point that not only does the topic become lost in it all, but it truly does make it difficult for others to join a thread or have any inclination to do so, because of personal agendas and the silliness of it all....you didn't 'scrutinize' anything because you didn't allow for anything to be scrutinized, you made an offensive pre-judgement that 'people wouldn't bother' and you aimed it specifically at posters in the thread..I'm sure that you'll agree that, that won't encourage debate but lead to 'defensiveness' which will only take off track and starts to kill all debate....a real basic 'no, no' in debate, you could say....and also not in any way, judging or opposing someone's views but judging them personally and in my opinion, in quite a 'superior' way....

..anyways, other than the topic itself, if I join the discussion..this will be the last post/response etc I make because this again, is only detracting from the debate....I love the debate section, I love the discussions and I think it's sad and a shame that so many threads/so many debates are marred/detracted from, because of unnecessary personal judgements...'will bother to read' is not judging an opinion, it's judging a person or people, before they've even had an opportunity to read or comment if they choose to do so.. and not only unnecessary but also without any foundation...

It's an opinion Ammi, nobody is condescending, attacking, judging, being superior or offensive to anyone.
I have posted reams of information that hasn't been looked at over time on these threads she's right if some have their blinkers on what can you do?... It's not a crime to acknowledge that can happen.

[Livia]

All I have to say about this is to liken it to what the Nazis did to the Jews, however loosely, is unbelievable.

It's Holocaust Remembrance Day today. There is plenty of information and programmes on the subject, maybe it'd do some people good to watch a little of it so you can put to rest once and for all that anything that is happening to refugees in Europe right now in any way equates to the Holocaust.

[Scarlett.]

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

[Livia]

..it's not about 'immigrant bashing' as you call it or 'perceived reactions' because nothing was allowed for in 'there's only a few people on here who will bother to read that.'....that's an assumption and a presumption that is not for you or anyone else to make because you don't know what anyone reads or what anyone doesn't read and it's a very condescending and quite 'superior' remark..it's also quite attacking, there was no waiting to see any reading or any comments after that reading, if any were made..?...all there was, was a condescending and judgemental 'there are only a few people on here who will bother to read', which is also very ironic, given the topic...all these things do/these remarks is to detract from what's being discussed..they not only don't add anything but they so often start a path of what has sadly so often become a series of personal comments of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth over the last while, to the point that not only does the topic become lost in it all, but it truly does make it difficult for others to join a thread or have any inclination to do so, because of personal agendas and the silliness of it all....you didn't 'scrutinize' anything because you didn't allow for anything to be scrutinized, you made an offensive pre-judgement that 'people wouldn't bother' and you aimed it specifically at posters in the thread..I'm sure that you'll agree that, that won't encourage debate but lead to 'defensiveness' which will only take off track and starts to kill all debate....a real basic 'no, no' in debate, you could say....and also not in any way, judging or opposing someone's views but judging them personally and in my opinion, in quite a 'superior' way....

..anyways, other than the topic itself, if I join the discussion..this will be the last post/response etc I make because this again, is only detracting from the debate....I love the debate section, I love the discussions and I think it's sad and a shame that so many threads/so many debates are marred/detracted from, because of unnecessary personal judgements...'will bother to read' is not judging an opinion, it's judging a person or people, before they've even had an opportunity to read or comment if they choose to do so.. and not only unnecessary but also without any foundation...

I agree Ammi. Totally and unreservedly.

[Kizzy]

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.

[DemolitionRed]

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.

Oh I think he's openly encouraging it.

[Livia]

Fair point Chewy, the drip drip dehumanisation is reminiscent I'd say and Cameron isn't even attempting to disguise his part in it.


It is not reminiscent in any way, and if you think it is, there's a big gap in your knowledge.

[Kizzy]

It is not reminiscent in any way, and if you think it is, there's a big gap in your knowledge.

I happen to believe it is Livia, I've taken what comments have been stated by the PM and other individuals as well as in the mainstream media. I don't expect you to agree, it is however my opinion.

[Livia]

I happen to believe it is Livia, I've taken what comments have been stated by the PM and other individuals as well as in the mainstream media. I don't expect you to agree, it is however my opinion.

So you're likening not only the plight of the refugees in Europe now to the plight of the Jews in the 30s, you're also likening Cameron to Hitler? Okay then... it's not like I didn't expect you to take this stance. It's pointless discussing this with you.

[Kizzy]

So you're likening not only the plight of the refugees in Europe now to the plight of the Jews in the 30s, you're also likening Cameron to Hitler? Okay then... it's not like I didn't expect you to take this stance. It's pointless discussing this with you.

Am I?... I'm not of course and I think it's rather offensive of you suggest that, nowhere have I likened Cameron to Hitler.
You have judged that incorrectly, if you disagree then fine but there's no need to attack my view. I am entitled to feel as I do and your condescension does nothing to deter me from my stance.

[Scarlett.]

People arent literally calling modern politicians Hitler. All we are worried about is repeating this same mistakes that Germany did in the past. Normal everyday people in Germany supported what happened in World War II, good people, we have to accept that not all of Germany were not cartoon villians, they were a nation who were manipulated and trained by their government into dehumanising others.

ohrtFuxUzZE

[Kizzy]

People arent literally calling modern politicians Hitler. All we are worried about is repeating this same mistakes that Germany did in the past. Normal everyday people in Germany supported what happened in World War II, good people, we have to accept that not all of Germany were not cartoon villians, they were a nation who were manipulated and trained by their government into dehumanising others.

ohrtFuxUzZE

Totally, you can argue with the left and you can argue with me, but you can't argue with Stephen Fry!

[DemolitionRed]

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

That's because most people don't realize we've been here before.

Surely this country gave a warm welcome in the past to refugees - such as those escaping the Nazis? Not so. Anne Karpf finds unpleasant parallels, then and now, and discovers how it feels to be the target of such hostility.

There's a doleful little game that staff at the Refugee Council sometimes play. They show visitors press cuttings about refugees and asylum seekers from the 1900s, 1930s and today, and ask them to guess when they were published. Most people get it wrong. They assume that Jewish refugees were welcomed, at least in the 1930s, with a tolerance that has traditionally been seen as a beacon of Britishness. They're shocked to discover that rabid intolerance - among both press and government - has a strong British pedigree.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jun/08/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices

[Kizzy]

I don't doubt that for a second, then as now there were those fighting for humanitarianism and those against.
I would say it was however a British trait too to want to help, who can be as vocal as the 'I'm alright Jack' nay sayers.

[joeysteele]

The slow dehumanisation of refugees is very much like what happened back then, I don't think people are connecting directly to the holocaust itself, but more to the events in the preceeding years. It's sad that people have forgotten the image of the young refugee child, dead on a beach, and now have gone back to thinking of them as less than human.

I have read all the posts on this thread on this and can see where most are coming from,I don't think to be fair to Josh he was making a like for like comparison with what happened in Nazi Germany at all and he is being unfairly pulled up as to that.

I think you have expressed very concisely and in really good wording what I can more easily go along with.

I think any State has the right in a just and fair way to expect anyone going into their Nation to fully or in part support themselves when there.
However to take by force possessions of others,lies very uneasily with me.
So I would on balance be against the Danish decision.

They would be quite right to withhold any benefits/assistance from the State if any were coming in really rich but to take possessions,maybe they have had for decades because they are of value, should in my view count as robbery.
Nothing wrong in ascertaining what assets those coming into the Nation have but to forcibly take any possessions from them,no,that seems very extreme to me.

So very well said Chewy and it is sad they are seen as less than Human,it is more than sad, it is disgraceful in fact,in my view.