Why are Gods always invisible?

[Marsh.]

It wasn't an argument. It was a point as I find the possibility of a correlation interesting. At no point was I trying to disprove or prove LT's initial point. It was an observation.

But by all means continue reading something that is not there. You clearly know my own thoughts better than I do. :idc:

[Marsh.]

tl;dr - Using your own, personal, anecdotal experiences of a few examples as a counter-argument to a statement made about groups of people in general, is generalising. It can't possibly, in any way or under any circumstances, be described as anything else.

It wasn't a counter-argument. It was an observation off the back of LT posing the correlation as a question.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?

*looks at last few pages*


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Homer-Walks-Into-Bar-and-Leaves.gif

[Kazanne]

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?

*looks at last few pages*


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Homer-Walks-Into-Bar-and-Leaves.gif

:joker::joker: Go piss in a river LT it's all your fault,you heathen you:fist::hehe:

[Marsh.]

so *wanders into thread*

what did i miss?


Oh you know.

We've moved on from deities to mind reading. :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker::joker: Go piss in a river LT it's all your fault,you heathen you:fist::hehe:

I have faith that the thread will be turned around and people will get on again


:fc:

[user104658]

Yes apparently we're not allowed to infer meaning from the words people use anymore unless they state them categorically in five words or fewer. It's regarded as some sort of mystical joobajoo mind reading whatsit nonsense, and you can be burned at the stake for it, in the name of Jesus or Bob from the Council Scheme or some other character from this thread. I can't remember. Iron Man or something. Maybe all three, like raptors.

[user104658]

I have faith that the thread will be turned around and people will get on again


:fc:

To be fair, I think everyone that ever "got on" is still getting on. As far as I can tell, anyway. Don't worry LT. Everything is as it always was. Shh... shhhh...

[Marsh.]

Yeah, god forbid people correct you when you misinterpret their words. :omgno:

[Marsh.]

Oops, I said god.

Apologies for pushing my religion on you.

[user104658]

Yeah, god forbid people correct you when you misinterpret their words. :omgno:

I didn't misinterpret them, though. I thought we had covered that quite comprehensively, but apparently not. But I can't be bothered playing groundhog day :sleep:.

[AnnieK]

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

what post number did that occur?

[Ammi]

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

[user104658]

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

That hasn't happened. Both have been mentioned as reasons that some people are religious - alongside others. Some of which specifically point out that there are intelligent, well educated people who are still religious. There hasn't been one post that states the sort of "either/or" situation that you're suggesting. Making this accusation misleading and needlessly inflamatory :think:

[user104658]

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.

[Ammi]

So then.....

Where is heaven?

It's definately not in the clouds.Or just above them.So it has to be in space somewhere.Is it another planet?
Or is it outside the universe/s.
If the universe is infinite or if there are an infinite number of universes then it has to be in it/one of them.Maybe it's in the centre of a galaxy or in a black hole.

Where is it?


...plug your headphones in NM and you've found it...:flutter:...


3UUWkr4FUlo

[Marsh.]

To be fair Marsh was stating his personal opinion. The main generalisation I can see in this thread is non believers saying that believers are either naive or brain washed by their parents.

:clap1:

[Ammi]

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.


..that's cool TS but it still doesn't change what was said, only that you're standing by your interpretations...

[Marsh.]

It was implied that those observations of those individuals either suggested that LT's proposed correlation between education level and religiosity was incorrect (i.e. that his observations proved that such people were in fact not religious) which would be a generalisation.

The other possibility, I suppose, was that he incorrectly believed LT to be saying that ALL uneducated people are religious, and that his observations of uneducated, non-religious people then disproved that... which wouldn't be a generalisation, simply incorrect, because LT at no point said that all uneducated people are religious.

Neither. I found LT's addition to the thread to be interesting so threw an example into the mix as another part of that debate to be of interest.

There was no attempt from me to prove anything either way, nor an attempt to accuse LT of generalising.

[user104658]

I feel like I should also point out, as )confusingly) I haven't until this point, I have absolutely zero problem with generalisations themselves or with people making generalisations. Sometimes they're handy, and accurate enough to convey a point.

I only have a problem with people taking that stance, and then clambering over themselves to claim that they haven't. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

I stand by my initial assessment, though. LT proposed the correlation, Marsh said (to paraphrase) "Hmm that's strange, because I know a few such people and they aren't religious, so that would suggest such a correlation is not true". Generalisation based on personal anecdote.

Then that would be incorrect.

I never said it suggested anything either way about the correlation. I said it was an interesting point for LT to raise, he'd mentioned it one way and I provided an example from my experiences of the other way as I find it interesting. I was taking either side of the debate, merely discussing it.

Funny how LT himself didn't take issue with my post as saying he was wrong or anything. Because I didn't.

[Marsh.]

Then kazanne said "Yarrrr they're all filthy godless feral scumbags (with hearts of gold)".

That's my exact memory of this thread.

Kazanne's post, which has nothing to do with anything posted by me or agreed with by me.

[Ammi]

I feel like I should also point out, as )confusingly) I haven't until this point, I have absolutely zero problem with generalisations themselves or with people making generalisations. Sometimes they're handy, and accurate enough to convey a point.

I only have a problem with people taking that stance, and then clambering over themselves to claim that they haven't. :shrug:

..or never having made it in the first place...:laugh:...(which was my interpretation ..)...

[Marsh.]

... Marsh said that the correlation between religion and education was interesting one because it's something that has been discussed in the thread/an existing part of the topic..and he stated his own personal experiences of people he had known, growing up who had 'laughed' or scoffed at religion...there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all...

This, this and this.

I'm glad someone has come into the thread, followed the flow of discussion and actually understood what was said.

Thank you.

[user104658]

..that's cool TS but it still doesn't change what was said, only that you're standing by your interpretations...

You're taking a rather concrete stance on "what was said" though Ammi

there was no generalisations, only personal experiences and no matter how that's been interpreted, it doesn't change what was actually said which was no generalisation at all

...in your opinion. Which is no more or less valid than anyone else's. You're stating YOUR observations as objective truth?

[Marsh.]

I'll just drop the actual original post I made here...

The correlation between education and religion is an interesting one.

In my own experience, having grown up on a council estate in and mixed with some shall we say "rough" people (like really rough). They've always been the types to laugh at religion and anything like it.

This is me saying LT's point is interesting and offering another perspective to the same discussion. Not trying to prove or disprove either way.

But I blame Kizzy for blowing it out of proportion. She did warn me about dancing with her I suppose.

[Kazanne]

Just because you cant see something , doesn't mean it's not there

[Ammi]

You're taking a rather concrete stance on "what was said" though Ammi






...no, I'm always fairly open to listening/there is nothing concrete at all about me TS, I re-read the original correlation post by Marsh twice just to make sure that I didn't feel as though I had misinterpreted and don't feel I did.. and Marsh himself has confirmed his meaning to be what I personally felt it was...


..anyways, I have a Valentine Disco to go to now so I'll leave you all to your misinterpretations/interpretations and discussion etc... I'm off to show my moves to St Valentine...

[Marsh.]

..anyways, I have a Valentine Disco to go to now so I'll leave you all to your misinterpretations/interpretations and discussion etc... I'm off to show my moves to St Valentine...

:laugh: Have fun.

[rubymoo]

Just because you cant see something , doesn't mean it's not there

Absolutely!

They've just found gravitational waves from black holes, which we can't see, who knows what else will be found in years to come.

[Kazanne]

Absolutely!

They've just found gravitational waves from black holes, which we can't see, who knows what else will be found in years to come.

:thumbs:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Absolutely!

They've just found gravitational waves from black holes, which we can't see, who knows what else will be found in years to come.

lol yes but there hard core evidence for that

Its not just a tale in a 2000 year old book!


(and btw no one is looking for gods so soz)

[Crimson Dynamo]

you cant equate black hole gravitational waves with fictitious deities


it wont wash sista

[rubymoo]

lol yes but there hard core evidence for that

Its not just a tale in a 2000 year old book!

Yes there is now, but who's to say there won't be hard core evidence for heaven/god/angels/spirit guides in the future :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes there is now, but who's to say there won't be hard core evidence for heaven/god/angels/spirit guides in the future :shrug:

science

as none is looking for them as they dont exist


There has to be evidence and scientific evidence


Book fiction is not enough I am afraid

[user104658]

I'll just drop the actual original post I made here...



This is me saying LT's point is interesting and offering another perspective to the same discussion. Not trying to prove or disprove either way.

But I blame Kizzy for blowing it out of proportion. She did warn me about dancing with her I suppose.

... ... ... ... ... ... OK so I've read back, and I'm willing to conceed that this actually may have been a completely random comment and not a generalisation designed to prove a point. ... ... ... :whistle: ... Oh well! This has been fun anyway :joker:. Soz lol.

(I also wasn't wrong about Kazanne and the "feral and hostile" comments being ****ing awful, comments which have somehow been completely lost in all of this...)

[user104658]

Yes there is now, but who's to say there won't be hard core evidence for heaven/god/angels/spirit guides in the future :shrug:

You could say that about literally anything though... it's totally meaningless. Whose to say that there won't be hardcore evidence that my left pinkie toe is the reaincarnation of Marc Anthony, and my right Cleopatra, forever tragically separated by fate?

[rubymoo]

science

as none is looking for them as they dont exist


There has to be evidence and scientific evidence


Book fiction is not enough I am afraid

There will be evidence in the future, i have faith that angels will connect with more people, pushing us towards a higher vibration :smug:

My nana years ago when she was a young lady, walked out into the road, she would have been knocked down, if it wasn't for someone pulling her back, when she turned to see who it was, there stood an American Indian with full head-dress, the was in the middle of England :shocked: this was her spirit guide :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

There will be evidence in the future, i have faith that angels will connect with more people, pushing us towards a higher vibration :smug:

My nana years ago when she was a young lady, walked out into the road, she would have been knocked down, if it wasn't for someone pulling her back, when she turned to see who it was, there stood an American Indian with full head-dress, the was in the middle of England :shocked: this was her spirit guide :smug:

I am afraid she was either lying or was mistaken

take your pick

[jet]

The fact that people try to disprove the existence of God so adamantly actually strengthens the argument for His existence. For if belief in God is so stupid and unbelievable why would a non - believer even bother to try to refute something they KNOW doesn't exist?

[rubymoo]

You could say that about literally anything though... it's totally meaningless. Whose to say that there won't be hardcore evidence that my left pinkie toe is the reaincarnation of Marc Anthony, and my right Cleopatra, forever tragically separated by fate?

But everything starts with an idea, until it's proven, people thought the Earth was flat and it was proved to be round, people thought the atom was the smallest particle until they cracked it open and a whole load of crap came out of it, we are finding new stuff in the universe all the time, who's to say we won't find other beings, whether they be angels/aliens or the ghost of Cleopatra :laugh:

[rubymoo]

I am afraid she was either lying or was mistaken

take your pick

Lol!

Open your mind LT you might like it, who knows you might choose the the red pill and be amazed at what you find :laugh:

[user104658]

There will be evidence in the future, i have faith that angels will connect with more people, pushing us towards a higher vibration :smug:

My nana years ago when she was a young lady, walked out into the road, she would have been knocked down, if it wasn't for someone pulling her back, when she turned to see who it was, there stood an American Indian with full head-dress, the was in the middle of England :shocked: this was her spirit guide :smug:

Yeah but where in that does it become the literal "angels" from organised religious literature? Even if these angels / spirits / guides do exist... they could simply be mortal beings from another slightly out-of-phase dimension, but a higher dimension in which they have discovered how to see and interact with us here? This is the sort of thing I'm on board with. Infinite possibility, the UNKNOWN and not-yet-understood mysteries of existence, which (almost certainly) extends far beyond our own perception.

It's STILL totally ridiculous to think that humans already have the answers written down in books, with weird rules to follow, and chants to recite, and special "holy" men and buildings. What we understand of the Universe is minimal so all sorts of things will be "truth" that we can't even comprehend yet, or probably ever. The likelihood of any of those things even remotely resembling an Abrahamic religion or any other limited, human-based religion? Absolutely miniscule to the point of being completely disregarded as nonsense.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The fact that people try to disprove the existence of God so adamantly actually strengthens the argument for His existence. For if belief in God is so stupid and unbelievable why would a non - believer even bother to try to refute something they KNOW doesn't exist?



Until I get Kirk to denounce Jesus and God and join the dark side I will never desist

:nono:

Also its called

Off Season

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol!

Open your mind LT you might like it, who knows you might choose the the red pill and be amazed at what you find :laugh:

Its not about opening your mind what you are describing is bypassing my mind

Read my gravitational waves thread, that will open and expand your mind

When I haver all the knowledge available about the amazing universe then I will have time to contemplate stuff made up by humans to make life simpler

[user104658]

Until I get Kirk to denounce Jesus and God and join the dark side I will never desist

:nono:

Also its called

Off Season

Off Season is a bit of a meaningless concept to me... the last Big Brother I watched was the one with the hooker, and maybe about 1/3 of the one with Perez and Hopkins and co. :shocked:

[Marsh.]

... ... ... ... ... ... OK so I've read back, and I'm willing to conceed that this actually may have been a completely random comment and not a generalisation designed to prove a point. ... ... ... :whistle: ... Oh well! This has been fun anyway :joker:. Soz lol.

:smug:

I told you, Kizzy is a menace to this forum.

[jet]

Its not about opening your mind what you are describing is bypassing my mind

Read my gravitational waves thread, that will open and expand your mind

When I haver all the knowledge available about the amazing universe then I will have time to contemplate stuff made up by humans to make life simpler

But believing in God doesn't make life simpler. All those rules, laws and rituals....it makes life much harder surely? Not believing, on the other hand, makes life a lot simpler. Which is maybe why non believers don't want to even think about an alternative...too much like hard work? :laugh:

[rubymoo]

Yeah but where in that does it become the literal "angels" from organised religious literature? Even if these angels / spirits / guides do exist... they could simply be mortal beings from another slightly out-of-phase dimension, but a higher dimension in which they have discovered how to see and interact with us here? This is the sort of thing I'm on board with. Infinite possibility, the UNKNOWN and not-yet-understood mysteries of existence, which (almost certainly) extends far beyond our own perception.

It's STILL totally ridiculous to think that humans already have the answers written down in books, with weird rules to follow, and chants to recite, and special "holy" men and buildings. What we understand of the Universe is minimal so all sorts of things will be "truth" that we can't even comprehend yet, or probably ever. The likelihood of any of those things even remotely resembling an Abrahamic religion or any other limited, human-based religion? Absolutely miniscule to the point of being completely disregarded as nonsense.

Absolutely! What i probably haven't divulged is that i'm not religious per say, so the bible to me the church etc is a human tool, formed to keep the masses compliant, this is my own opinion, however i do believe in angels, in spirit, in spirit guides and yes these beings could come from a slightly out of phase dimension or a higher dimension, they know more than we could ever believe possible, i see these beings as angels, others may see them as aliens, to me they are one and the same.

I do think the bible makes for good reading though, and the church always provokes a deep emotional response....why is this?

[the truth]

Maybe cant see a superior being with the naked eye, just as we cant see black holes either? The Bible is a book of parables, ancient stories going back 1000s of years partly historical partly symbolic, a book of enormous value to those who respect and value it. A book which can be interpreted many different ways. One can learn life lessons in morality, in immorality, lessons on repentence, forgiveness, enlightenment, etc if more people read it and wrestled with moral quandaries , questions on ethics and understanding , we would become a more evolved species. the majority of great scientists were religious, there is no need for any battle between science and religion. The 2 can work hand in glove, we will need a little faith to find peace in the world and go on more journeys into the unknown universe of space and time

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe cant see a superior being with the naked eye, just as we cant see black holes either? The Bible is a book of parables, ancient stories going back 1000s of years partly historical partly symbolic, a book of enormous value to those who respect and value it. A book which can be interpreted many different ways. One can learn life lessons in morality, in immorality, lessons on repentence, forgiveness, enlightenment, etc if more people read it and wrestled with moral quandaries , questions on ethics and understanding , we would become a more evolved species. the majority of great scientists were religious, there is no need for any battle between science and religion. The 2 can work hand in glove, we will need a little faith to find peace in the world and go on more journeys into the unknown universe of space and time

we can do all that without religion and are doing it.

you can also say all that about the works of Shakespeare

[AnnieK]

... ... ... ... ... ... OK so I've read back, and I'm willing to conceed that this actually may have been a completely random comment and not a generalisation designed to prove a point. ... ... ... :whistle: ... Oh well! This has been fun anyway :joker:. Soz lol.

(I also wasn't wrong about Kazanne and the "feral and hostile" comments being ****ing awful, comments which have somehow been completely lost in all of this...)

Wait......someone actually admitting they were wrong in an SD thread? :omg: It's some kind of modern day miracle.....if this doesn't prove that God exists I don't know what will.

[Northern Monkey]

Maybe cant see a superior being with the naked eye, just as we cant see black holes either? The Bible is a book of parables, ancient stories going back 1000s of years partly historical partly symbolic, a book of enormous value to those who respect and value it. A book which can be interpreted many different ways. One can learn life lessons in morality, in immorality, lessons on repentence, forgiveness, enlightenment, etc if more people read it and wrestled with moral quandaries , questions on ethics and understanding , we would become a more evolved species. the majority of great scientists were religious, there is no need for any battle between science and religion. The 2 can work hand in glove, we will need a little faith to find peace in the world and go on more journeys into the unknown universe of space and time

See i can accept all of this.The bible can be guide for people which i have absolutely nothing against.I am not anti religion.

However does it confirm the existence of god,heaven or hell?
No it confirms the existence of some very good moral story tellers back in Roman times.

[the truth]

we can do all that without religion and are doing it.

you can also say all that about the works of Shakespeare

No we cant, at least not to the same degree. we can gain knowledge and understanding from all walks of life, INCLUDING religion. Religion is the only arena dedicated fully to wrestling moral issues. The work the Christian churches do for the impoverished is unparalleled in the history of humankind. It would be insane to throw that away on the back of anti Christian bigotry. Sheakspeares work is totally separate and we can also learn from that too. so what?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No we cant, at least not to the same degree. we can gain knowledge and understanding from all walks of life, INCLUDING religion. Religion is the only arena dedicated fully to wrestling moral issues. The work the Christian churches do for the impoverished is unparalleled in the history of humankind. It would be insane to throw that away on the back of anti Christian bigotry. Sheakspeares work is totally separate and we can also learn from that too. so what?

well er no

the work that science and medicine has done for the impoverished is unparalleled in the history of humankind.

what churches have done is minuscule in comparison and bares no comparison

[Kizzy]

This, this and this.

I'm glad someone has come into the thread, followed the flow of discussion and actually understood what was said.

Thank you.

Yes thankyou to everyone who has jumped in the thread who has no idea that referring to council estates, a few people and ungodliness is in fact a generalisation.

[Kizzy]

I'll just drop the actual original post I made here...



This is me saying LT's point is interesting and offering another perspective to the same discussion. Not trying to prove or disprove either way.

But I blame Kizzy for blowing it out of proportion. She did warn me about dancing with her I suppose.

Fine blame me, as kazanne said.
'Just because you cant see something , doesn't mean it's not there.'
In I have been out for hours and hours and you're STILL chewing this over, and you say I'm pedantic? Sheeesh!
Would it sit better if I said 'in my opinion' it was a generalisation?

[the truth]

well er no

the work that science and medicine has done for the impoverished is unparalleled in the history of humankind.

what churches have done is minuscule in comparison and bares no comparison

why do yous ee the 2 separate subject sas mutually exclusive, both have achieve enormous things for humankind ...for centuries.
Christianity has raised more money than any organization in history and given people faith
Christianity has also given faith to billions of people, many of whom were scientists , science is a journey into the unknown and requires a certain degree of faith.
both add massively to our existence on this planet.
I doff my hat respectively to them all.

[Kizzy]

Wait......someone actually admitting they were wrong in an SD thread? :omg: It's some kind of modern day miracle.....if this doesn't prove that God exists I don't know what will.

Why don't you ask him to swear on the bible that apology is sincere... I bet he'll struggle ;)

[kirklancaster]

The Gospel according to Kirk:

L.T. Said:

"So Jaimie how do you reconcile the fact that in general when a country develops and educates its population religion dwindles and the fact that the most religious countries by far are the least developed?

Its not hard to look at say India or Norway or Nigeria and France

Educate the people and the need for gods is massively reduced."

Which Kirk interprets as:

Poorly educated people from a lower social class and environment, are more prone to believe in a God than more educated people from superior environments.

Whether L.T means that this is because such people are easier for 'Organised Religion' leaders to 'brainwash' and 'condition', or whether such people have such pitiful and miserable existences that they are more 'desperate' to 'believe' that there HAS to be a better life in the hereafter, is not clear.

MARSH Said:

"The correlation between education and religion is an interesting one.

In my own experience, having grown up on a council estate in and mixed with some shall we say "rough" people (like really rough). They've always been the types to laugh at religion and anything like it."

Which Kirk interprets as:

"Yes, an interesting statement L.T. but my own direct experience of poorly educated people from a lower social class and environment - ie; the really rough council estate where I grew up - are that, those type of people are not only the very ones who are less prone to believe in a God, but are also the very type to to totally reject religion and actually mock those who do believe."

KAZ Said:

"You DO make a good point Marsh,thinking about it,I know a few rough diamonds and none of them are religious in any way,they are ferrel ,uncaring and hostile."

Which Kirk interprets as:

"Yes, Marsh, that has been my experience too with some poorly educated people from a lower social class and environment."

Now WHAT is so WRONG with either Marsh's point or Kaz's?

They are speaking from their OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCES and there can be NO BETTER EVIDENCE.

:shrug:

[Kizzy]

having grown up on a council estate in and mixed with some shall we say "rough" people (like really rough). They've always been the types to laugh at religion and anything like it.

I'm not getting into another back and forth, but for clarification this is my interpretation.

I saw this to mean council residents in general, otherwise who are 'they'?

[rubymoo]

lol yes but there hard core evidence for that

Its not just a tale in a 2000 year old book!


(and btw no one is looking for gods so soz)

Maybe that's why they aren't finding them ;)

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

we can do all that without religion and are doing it.

e

speak for yourself love. Millions of people search for something more and find it in faith.

[Johnnyuk123]

I've found him! :spin:
http://roughtimesnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Cameron-Christ.png

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I've found him! :spin:
http://roughtimesnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Cameron-Christ.png

JejejejejejajajajajaHAHAHAHAHlolololoroflroflrflrf olmaroflmaohehehehehe...:notimpressed: laugh now you won't be on judgement day.

[kirklancaster]

having grown up on a council estate in and mixed with some shall we say "rough" people (like really rough). They've always been the types to laugh at religion and anything like it.

I'm not getting into another back and forth, but for clarification this is my interpretation.

I saw this to mean council residents in general, otherwise who are 'they'?

THEY - as in; "the rough people (like really rough)" that Marsh has 'grown up with' and 'mixed with' ON THE COUNCIL ESTATE where he 'grew up' -- As opposed to; "They" meaning ALL people SPECIFICALLY from council estates as you are so desperately and continually and wrongly inferring.

'ROUGH and REALLY ROUGH' are the OPERATIVE words here, NOT COUNCIL ESTATE.

[kirklancaster]

I do not give 2 flying fecks who believes me or not, and I will not try to explain, for the very simple reason that those who believe already UNDERSTAND, and those who do not believe, will NEVER understand, but I KNOW MY GOD IS REAL.

He brings me peace when I am troubled. He brings me resolutions to my problems, and my PRAYERS are ALWAYS answered, whether immediately - as is often the case - or in time. And YES, sometimes HE truly works in MYSTERIOUS WAYS, but ALWAYS, HIS decision is for the best.

[smudgie]

I do not give 2 flying fecks who believes me or not, and I will not try to explain, for the very simple reason that those who believe already UNDERSTAND, and those who do not believe, will NEVER understand, but I KNOW MY GOD IS REAL.

He brings me peace when I am troubled. He brings me resolutions to my problems, and my PRAYERS are ALWAYS answered, whether immediately - as is often the case - or in time. And YES, sometimes HE truly works in MYSTERIOUS WAYS, but ALWAYS, HIS decision is for the best.

When it comes down to it Kirk, that is all that really matters.
Your belief is your belief.

[Kizzy]

If the council estate has no relevance I'm wondering why it was brought into the discussion. I don't feel the generalisation was directed only at rough people but that is only my opinion I don't care who agrees or who feels I'm wrong quite frankly.
I don't appreciate being drawn out on it, I've stated how I see it and explained why.

[AnnieK]

If you read through the thread you will see why it was brought up. It was in direct response to another post regarding education and religion and Marsh ' s personal experiences from where he was brought up and experiences he has had. Nothing generalised about council estates per se...just the one he has lived on and the people he has met

[Kizzy]

If you read through the thread you will see why it was brought up. It was in direct response to another post regarding education and religion and Marsh ' s personal experiences from where he was brought up and experiences he has had. Nothing generalised about council estates per se...just the one he has lived on and the people he has met

I have Annie, I haven't just jumped in at random points or anything.
Again to clarify in my opinion I felt there was a direct correlation being drawn between council estates, rough people and lack of faith.
Whoever feels this is a misunderstanding I simply don't care, I saw it as a generalisation, have heard nothing to change that view thus still feel it was/is.

[AnnieK]

I have Annie, I haven't just jumped in at random points or anything.
Again to clarify in my opinion I felt there was a direct correlation being drawn between council estates, rough people and lack of faith.
Whoever feels this is a misunderstanding I simply don't care, I saw it as a generalisation, have heard nothing to change that view thus still feel it was/is.

Fair enough, I wasn't suggesting you had jumped in. if that is your interpretation, of course you are entitled to that. I was merely trying to give a slightly unbiased opinion. I respect your post and will not labour my views any more :love:

[user104658]

Why don't you ask him to swear on the bible that apology is sincere... I bet he'll struggle ;)

I'll take that bet!

Probably will struggle though... in so much that I'm not sure where I'd actually find one to swear on. A church maybe? Do churches just have them lying about these days? But they're all locked at night... hmmmm... Wait! I know! A hotel!! Hotels ALWAYS have a bible in the room. Actually hold on a minute... the last few times I've been in a hotel there hasn't been one. It's probably considered a jihad-trigger these days or something.

Buy one? Do you buy bibles? And where? It seems sort of wrong that they'd be for sale... ... ... and which bible shop is going to be open at this time?

Ugh. Maybe Kirk would send me one of his? He probably has like 20, various editions with various translations and such. I can't ask Truth, he only has one and it's covered in this weird sticky gunk... I don't even know... it smells like ammonia.

Which is the best bible to swear on? Is there a heirarchy of bibles?

WAIT! I've got it!!

http://www.bible.com

...there's an app! I can just get the app and swear on my phone! Hooraaay, I shall do this post-haste.

(tl;dr = I'll swear anything you want on the bible or any other book you can think of, because it's words on woodpulp. Utterly meaningless.)

[edited to add] ...In my opinion :hee:

[Kizzy]

Fair enough, I wasn't suggesting you had jumped in. if that is your interpretation, of course you are entitled to that. I was merely trying to give a slightly unbiased opinion. I respect your post and will not labour my views any more :love:

Thanks Annie :love:

[user104658]

Fair enough, I wasn't suggesting you had jumped in. if that is your interpretation, of course you are entitled to that. I was merely trying to give a slightly unbiased opinion. I respect your post and will not labour my views any more :love:

Thanks Annie :love:

Wait, you mean all I had to do was tack "In my most humblest of opinionses" onto the front of every post and it would all have been totally acceptable? ... ... ... ... this seems deceptively simple in my opinion :suspect:

[Kizzy]

I'll take that bet!

Probably will struggle though... in so much that I'm not sure where I'd actually find one to swear on. A church maybe? Do churches just have them lying about these days? But they're all locked at night... hmmmm... Wait! I know! A hotel!! Hotels ALWAYS have a bible in the room. Actually hold on a minute... the last few times I've been in a hotel there hasn't been one. It's probably considered a jihad-trigger these days or something.

Buy one? Do you buy bibles? And where? It seems sort of wrong that they'd be for sale... ... ... and which bible shop is going to be open at this time?

Ugh. Maybe Kirk would send me one of his? He probably has like 20, various editions with various translations and such. I can't ask Truth, he only has one and it's covered in this weird sticky gunk... I don't even know... it smells like ammonia.

Which is the best bible to swear on? Is there a heirarchy of bibles?

WAIT! I've got it!!

http://www.bible.com

...there's an app! I can just get the app and swear on my phone! Hooraaay, I shall do this post-haste.

(tl;dr = I'll swear anything you want on the bible or any other book you can think of, because it's words on woodpulp. Utterly meaningless.)

This is you...
http://49.media.tumblr.com/3f300efed9cbfa1b9eb46df1f6d7afaa/tumblr_meyjjvQpZv1rnr47go5_250.gif

;)

[user104658]

This is you...
http://49.media.tumblr.com/3f300efed9cbfa1b9eb46df1f6d7afaa/tumblr_meyjjvQpZv1rnr47go5_250.gif

;)

Nah! Well... In so much as I can accept that I was mistaken. I'm not actually "sorry" because, like I said, it was still fun. An entertaining little discussion.

Does it really matter if the premise is false or the conclusion disjointed and messy if the rest is enjoyable? Hmm. A metaphor for life, innit.

[edit]And religion, I suppose! :omgno: ... Though it doesn't seem like much fun to be fair.

[AnnieK]

Wait, you mean all I had to do was tack "In my most humblest of opinionses" onto the front of every post and it would all have been totally acceptable? ... ... ... ... this seems deceptively simple in my opinion :suspect:

Nope. ...i just have enough humility and respect for other people's opinions that I can back off and respect them particularly when I don't think they are being a sarcastic arse just for funsies like some :wink:

[user104658]

Nope. ...i just have enough humility and respect for other people's opinions that I can back off and respect them particularly when I don't think they are being a sarcastic arse just for funsies like some :wink:

That's a bit harsh in my opinion :sad:. Cruel and vindictive some might say! Not me personally.

Inspirational, Annie... I've a new avatar to mark the occasion.

[Ninastar]

'Why are gods always invisible?'

We will never know. Why does it matter? Why can't people just leave religious people alone?

[Alf]

'Why are gods always invisible?'

We will never know. Why does it matter? Why can't people just leave religious people alone?Don't be feeling sorry for the them. They're all going to be given eternal life in Paradise, (they have to die first of course, there's not gonna be any Paradise on Earth).

It's the rest of us you should feel for, we're all gonna to have a Red hot poker stuck up our backsides in Hell.

[kirklancaster]

Just want to register my admiration for Annie and Ammi and Kaz for their reasoned, balanced, fair and sincere contributions to this thread.

I simply ADORE courageous women.

:flowers::flowers::kiss::kiss::kiss:

[kirklancaster]

To All Ye Doubters:

PROVE TO ME - using the same criterion you demand of us believers concerning God - that ANY of these people ACTUALLY existed:

Pythagoras
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Empedocles

Good Luck.

[billy123]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.

[joeysteele]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.

Exactly, well said bobnot.

[kirklancaster]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Very well said Bob.

[Kazanne]

I've found him! :spin:
http://roughtimesnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Cameron-Christ.png

:joker::joker::joker: johnny you buggar:laugh:

[Kazanne]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.

:thumbs:In a nutshell Bobnot :wavey:

[Crimson Dynamo]

'Why are gods always invisible?'

We will never know. Why does it matter? Why can't people just leave religious people alone?

people will when they get religion out of schools and politics and when things like ISIS stop springing up and perhaps the middle east settles down


I dont see anyone killing anyone in the name of the Jedi!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.

yes and i love how in the middle east, africa and asia that is playing out beautifully

:rolleyes:

[billy123]

yes and i love how in the middle east, africa and asia that is playing out beautifully

:rolleyes:
What on earth are you jibbering on about now?. :sleep:

[Kazanne]

people will when they get religion out of schools and politics and when things like ISIS stop springing up and perhaps the middle east settles down


I dont see anyone killing anyone in the name of the Jedi!

It does say in the bible LT that the middle East would be unstable and will be at war with the West ,so I don't think it will be 'settling down' anytime soon.

"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows". Matthew 24:6-8

Is any of this an untruth in your opinion ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It does say in the bible LT that the middle East would be unstable and will be at war with the West ,so I don't think it will be 'settling down' anytime soon.

"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows". Matthew 24:6-8

Is any of this an untruth in your opinion ?

It says lots of things in the Bible as it runs to 1000 odd pages. There is no such thing as fortune telling or being able to see into the future as the future is a made up word made by man to describe something that has not happened so I am afraid what ever it prophesys in the bible is bogus

[Crimson Dynamo]

What on earth are you jibbering on about now?. :sleep:

The one thing that religion does not so is live and let live


and dont be insulting as it is against tibb rules :nono:

[billy123]

The one thing that religion does not so is live and let live


and dont be insulting as it is against tibb rules :nono::joker: classic. You really have lost your touch. I asked you what you were on about and the tears started to flow wtf :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker: classic

a simple "yes LT" is sufficient

[Kazanne]

It says lots of things in the Bible as it runs to 1000 odd pages. There is no such thing as fortune telling or being able to see into the future as the future is a made up word made by man to describe something that has not happened so I am afraid what ever it prophesys in the bible is bogus

So is any of what they 'made up' iyo ,not true?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So is any of what they 'made up' iyo ,not true?

no one can predict the future, one can only guess

but you can be accurate some of the time if you predict obvious things or are suitably vague


I predict it will be warmer in August than in February

I predict there will be trouble in the middle east


I predict a riot


etc

[Kazanne]

no one can predict the future, one can only guess

but you can be accurate some of the time if you predict obvious things or are suitably vague


I predict it will be warmer in August than in February

I predict there will be trouble in the middle east


I predict a riot


etc

:nono: not good enough LT, must try better.:hehe:

[kirklancaster]

What on earth are you jibbering on about now?. :sleep:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[joeysteele]

:nono: not good enough LT, must try better.:hehe:

:joker:Nice one.:joker:
:wavey:Good post you made earlier too, not as to even just vague prophesy on one issue but the whole quote and prophecy has even greater relevance today than it even did all that time way back then.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:nono: not good enough LT, must try better.:hehe:

i predict kaz will be an atheist by 2017

:hehe:

[kirklancaster]

i predict kaz will be an atheist by 2017

:hehe:

:laugh: And I predict that a mischievious winder-upper will still be making 'Religious' threads when he is bored and wants a reaction, well into 2025.

[Kizzy]

The Parable of the Bags of Gold
14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’ 21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’ 23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “ ‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Discuss.

[Lee.]

So is any of what they 'made up' iyo ,not true?

Hello, could I maybe just stick my oar in here and suggest (maybe) that the whole God creating man/the Adam and Eve story is a bit of a lie? :)

[Kazanne]

:joker:Nice one.:joker:
:wavey:Good post you made earlier too, not as to even just vague prophesy on one issue but the whole quote and prophecy has even greater relevance today than it even did all that time way back then.

Thankyou Joey , :wavey:

[Kazanne]

:laugh: And I predict that a mischievious winder-upper will still be making 'Religious' threads when he is bored and wants a reaction, into 2025.

well, LT has got some miledge out of this one Kirk :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

well, LT has got some miledge out of this one Kirk :laugh:

:laugh::laugh: Yeah Kaz - But he still has not beaten us, has he? :hehe:

[Johnnyuk123]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3f/81/8f/3f818fae1475da021fe32c7ace70eb6e.jpg

[Kazanne]

Hello, could I maybe just stick my oar in here and suggest (maybe) that the whole God creating man/the Adam and Eve story is a bit of a lie? :)

Hi Lee, lovely to see you back posting, that one is more complicated :laugh: I don't think we evolved from monkeys either.

[Kazanne]

:laugh::laugh: Yeah Kaz - But he still has not beaten us, has he? :hehe:

And never will he Kirk ,he's a heathen and needs some guidance from his peers:hehe:

[Lee.]

Hi Lee, lovely to see you back posting, that one is more complicated :laugh: I don't think we evolved from monkeys either.
It's nice to be back kazanne! It's quiet on here though (must be very quiet for me to get involved in a religious thread :laugh:)

So where do you believe humans came from? I'm not being a smart arse, I'm genuinely interested in people's thoughts on this. I'm an atheist but I respect other faiths and beliefs.

[user104658]

Oh Ffs are we really onto denying evolution now? :joker:

[kirklancaster]

Go to Jupiter and see a totally new colour which no human has ever seen before, then return to Earth and try to explain that new colour to the greatest intellects on the planet.

You CANNOT.

Because there is no common frame of reference, and you - quite literally - 'have not the words - there is nothing in our vocabulary to describe such an unknown colour.

You are then forced to resort to 'similies' and 'metaphors'; "it was like a bluey gold" etc. etc.

The natives of Papua, New Guinea did not know what an aeroplane was the very first time one flew over their heads glinting in the hot equatorial sun, but they knew what metal was, and knew what a bird was, so aeroplane became 'metal bird' when those who had witnessed it were relating what they saw to those who had not.

Ditto, the American Indians who saw a train for the first time - 'Iron Horse'.

Is it beyond the realms of probability that primitive men used metaphor and parable to enable them to comprehend what was incomprehensible - The Creation story?

And did not ALL humankind stem from 'Adam' and 'Eve' no matter whether one believes in God or Evolution?

Further; when I read of the 'The Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil', I KNOW what message this simple parable carried, and I am reminded of it each time I think of J. Robert Oppenheimer, the creator of the atomic bomb and his chilling quote from the Bhagavad Gita:

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

God in his infinite wisdom KNEW that certain 'knowledge should be kept from his 'children'.

[kirklancaster]

And never will he Kirk ,he's a heathen and needs some guidance from his peers:hehe:

:laugh: And now we must leave L.T. and concentrate on that equally dastardly heathen T.S. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Oh Ffs are we really onto denying evolution now? :joker:

TS... I'm frightened.

[Kazanne]

The Parable of the Bags of Gold
14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’ 21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’ 23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ 24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 “ ‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Discuss.

I think this may answer the principle of that scenario kizzy,it's a long read,but basically I'm sure it is about loyalty and work ethic and laziness.
https://witzend.wordpress.com/tag/parable-of-the-bags-of-gold/

The traditional interpretation goes like this: The man who had received five talents doubled them, as did the man who had only two. But the man who had one hid his talent in the ground. It is too often true in church circles that a person who feels he has only one talent buries it instead of using it in the work of the Kingdom.

[Kizzy]

Where would bankers fit into that scenario?

[Northern Monkey]

Go to Jupiter and see a totally new colour which no human has ever seen before, then return to Earth and try to explain that new colour to the greatest intellects on the planet.

You CANNOT.

Because there is no common frame of reference, and you - quite literally - 'have not the words - there is nothing in our vocabulary to describe such an unknown colour.

You are then forced to resort to 'similies' and 'metaphors'; "it was like a bluey gold" etc. etc.

The natives of Papua, New Guinea did not know what an aeroplane was the very first time one flew over their heads glinting in the hot equatorial sun, but they knew what metal was, and knew what a bird was, so aeroplane became 'metal bird' when those who had witnessed it were relating what they saw to those who had not.

Ditto, the American Indians who saw a train for the first time - 'Iron Horse'.

Is it beyond the realms of probability that primitive men used metaphor and parable to enable them to comprehend what was incomprehensible - The Creation story?

And did not ALL humankind stem from 'Adam' and 'Eve' no matter whether one believes in God or Evolution?

Further; when I read of the 'The Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil', I KNOW what message this simple parable carried, and I am reminded of it each time I think of J. Robert Oppenheimer, the creator of the atomic bomb and his chilling quote from the Bhagavad Gita:

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

God in his infinite wisdom KNEW that certain 'knowledge should be kept from his 'children'.
But surely we could describe any colour in our solar system as we use the same light spectrum from our sun wherever we are?
It would have to be some shade of Yellow,Orange,Brown,White etc etc.Colours which we will have seen before here on Earth or shades there of.

[user104658]

Go to Jupiter and see a totally new colour which no human has ever seen before, then return to Earth and try to explain that new colour to the greatest intellects on the planet.

A totally new colour? Kirk I hate to break it to you but that's a dream you might have to let go. You have already seen every colour you will ever see. Unless, perhaps, Jupiter has some particularly advanced alien surgeon who can upgrade your retinas and also replace your occipital lobe...

Which interestingly is a parallel for why I so strongly reject the idea of organised religion. If there IS a creator (which one might call God) then it is something completely beyond the scope of human perception or comprehension. It is not a "him" or a "her" or any other sort of petty, human-personified character. It doesn't think like a human or look like a human or give a stuff what humans do in our human lives. The Bible is a limited, frivolous attempt by small human minds to categorise and define universal forces that simply can't be... Stripping all of the wonder and mystery from existence in the process and grounding it right down here in the dirt with us. Making a God who "listens to us", a God who "cares about us", where silly little humans are some major part of a plan and earth isn't a speck of sand on an infinite beach. It's borne of fear and arrogance, a tale crafted by men who couldn't handle the fact that they don't (and can't) know everything and so made up an explanation that would cover it all.

An imperceptible God(like intelligence of some unknown form) may exist. That is entirely within the realms of possibility. That's not what anyone needs to prove to me to stop me from being a heathen. What someone needs to explain to me, is how you get from that possibility to the utter bull**** of organised religions and cults. The biggest of which is of course Christianity.

I believe that Jesus (the man) was real. I even believe that he probably had good intentions, wanted to help people. Certainly that he must have been exceptionally charismatic. I do not for one second believe that he was the son of, or sent by, a higher power. My guess? He probably didn't even claim to be the son of God. He probably just upset too many bigwigs and got himself killed for it... Becoming a martyr as he was a good man... And then over the centuries the stories about him were told and retold and exaggerated into what we have now.

So yeah. If you're bothered; don't try to convince me that - - - a - - - God could be real. I fully and 100% accept that we have absolutely no idea how reality is constructed or how it works.

Convince me that ORGANISED RELIGION is in any way valid, and not just stories written by people to explain the unexplainable and then used as a method of gaining order and control.

[user104658]

But surely we could describe any colour in our solar system as we use the same light spectrum from our sun wherever we are?
It would have to be some shade of Yellow,Orange,Brown,White etc etc.Colours which we will have seen before here on Earth or shades there of.
Colour is simply a wavelength of light. Our eyes and occipital lobe (part of the brain that processes visual information) can physically only perceive a certain range of wavelengths. There ARE other colours, infrared, ultraviolet and beyond but humans physically can't ever see them without being aided by technology (which will simply translate them into colours within our visual range). Doesn't matter where you go in the entire universe, you will only ever see exactly the same colours you see here on earth.

Tl;Dr go on photoshop's "colour picker" and you have access to every colour that any human will ever see.

[Northern Monkey]

Colour is simply a wavelength of light. Our eyes and occipital lobe (part of the brain that processes visual information) can physically only perceive a certain range of wavelengths. There ARE other colours, infrared, ultraviolet and beyond but humans physically can't ever see them without being aided by technology (which will simply translate them into colours within our visual range). Doesn't matter where you go in the entire universe, you will only ever see exactly the same colours you see here on earth.

Tl;Dr go on photoshop's "colour picker" and you have access to every colour that any human will ever see.

Yes.This is better than my answer.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh: And I predict that a mischievious winder-upper will still be making 'Religious' threads when he is bored and wants a reaction, well into 2025.

:nono:

They are popular and people enjoy them

[Alf]

Live and let live. If having a belief helps people cope better with their mortality then good for them.
That's fine but don't force it on the rest of us anymore.

Do you think that's too much to ask?

[Marsh.]

Fine blame me, as kazanne said.
'Just because you cant see something , doesn't mean it's not there.'
In I have been out for hours and hours and you're STILL chewing this over, and you say I'm pedantic? Sheeesh!
Would it sit better if I said 'in my opinion' it was a generalisation?

Chewing over it?

No sweetie. I was discussing it with Toy Soldier and other posters who have entered the thread since you left.

And since many of these posters have gone back and conceded they'd mis interpreted the discussion, it was only yourself coming in and taking the discussion off course (as always) the caused the misunderstanding.

You can continue to stubbornly believe you're right yet again kizzy, I'm passed caring.

I see you've quoted my other posts again to repeat your incorrect understanding of them. I've already corrected you, I won't bother again because you don't actually read/listen to anyone but yourself.

[Marsh.]

That's fine but don't force it on the rest of us anymore.

Do you think that's too much to ask?

Bobnot is forcing religion on you? :pat:

And FYI, when it comes to this forum it's always an atheist that begins the religious based topics. Maybe they could stop forcing it on everyone too? :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Bobnot is forcing religion on you? :pat:

And FYI, when it comes to this forum it's always an atheist that begins the religious based topics. Maybe they could stop forcing it on everyone too? :hee:

when its out of ALL schools and our political system no one will care morsh


so will people please stop with the posts as if it is


jesus h christ if i read another


"well why do you care just ignore it its not doing any harm" etc etc etc


:facepalm:

[billy123]

That's fine but don't force it on the rest of us anymore.

Do you think that's too much to ask? :joker::joker: wtf
Im not religious and im certainly not forcing it on anyone. I have my own thoughts and reasons for not being religious but im not really interested in ranting on about that either unlike some on here.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker::joker: wtf
Im not religious and im certainly not forcing it on anyone. I have my own thoughts and reasons for not being religious but im not really interested in ranting on about that either unlike some on here.


No one is ranting apart from yourself. This is a discussion forum and if you dont want to discuss this topic then off you trot

:xyxwave:

[Alf]

:joker::joker: wtf
Im not religious and im certainly not forcing it on anyone. I have my own thoughts and reasons for not being religious but im not really interested in ranting on about that either unlike some on here.
Show me where I called you religious.

I was speaking out generally to a post you made, not directly at you.

[billy123]

Show me where I called you religious.

I was speaking out generally to a post you made.Show me where i was forcing religion down your throat. you quoted me and said "thats fine just dont force it on the rest of us anymore" where did i do that?

[Alf]

Show me where i was forcing religion down your throat.
I wasn't talking directly of you personally I was taking generally.

[billy123]

I wasn't talking directly of you personally I was taking generally.OK shag.

[user104658]

No one is ranting apart from yourself. This is a discussion forum and if you dont want to discuss this topic then off you trot

:xyxwave:

Have to agree with you there LT. If religious members want to start religious threads then they are free to do so (if they are willing to be challenged). Likewise, if anyone doesn't want to be involved in one of these threads then they are free to simply NOT click the link or engage in the discussion, and find another thread topic that they are willing to discuss...

One might theorise, based on the reactions to anti-organised-religion threads, that the reason religious people don't start religious threads is in fact because they don't want to be challenged. Most find it very emotionally challenging (and therefore get angry), because most have many complex emotions wrapped up in / repressed by faith. In my opinion, of course.

[AnnieK]

I don't think it should be removed from schools but should be an option for people who want to study it. If you remove it completely it becomes a taboo subject and less likely that children will be able to come to informed choices on religion. In my opinion of course.

[Lee.]

I don't think it should be removed from schools but should be an option for people who want to study it. If you remove it completely it becomes a taboo subject and less likely that children will be able to come to informed choices on religion. In my opinion of course.

Hi Annie! :hugesmile: I disagree with religion coming into my children's education. I want them to learn spelling, maths, science, geography, history etc etc and if I wanted them to be religious I'd send them to church.. I'm all for the learning about all religions and faiths and being encouraged to be accepting of them all, but I don't want my kid preached to :)

[AnnieK]

Hi Annie! :hugesmile: I disagree with religion coming into my children's education. I want them to learn spelling, maths, science, geography, history etc etc and if I wanted them to be religious I'd send them to church.. I'm all for the learning about all religions and faiths and being encouraged to be accepting of them all, but I don't want my kid preached to :)

Hey Lee. Lovely to see you :love: I don't want them preached to either which is why I think it should be optional and balanced.

[Marsh.]

when its out of ALL schools and our political system no one will care morsh


so will people please stop with the posts as if it is


jesus h christ if i read another


"well why do you care just ignore it its not doing any harm" etc etc etc


:facepalm:

I haven't said any of that love.

Maybe take the same lesson as Kizzy and read a post in the context of the many posts that it follows to gauge a a better understanding? :hee:

[Lee.]

Hey Lee. Lovely to see you :love: I don't want them preached to either which is why I think it should be optional and balanced.

Yes I agree.. I remember after a fairly awful Easter service at my daughters school, having to explain to her that people could not in fact come back to life! She was 5 years old, had just lost her rabbit and her great grandma and the story of the resurrection gave her false hope that maybe they'd come back to life too! :sad:

[Marsh.]

Hi Annie! :hugesmile: I disagree with religion coming into my children's education. I want them to learn spelling, maths, science, geography, history etc etc and if I wanted them to be religious I'd send them to church.. I'm all for the learning about all religions and faiths and being encouraged to be accepting of them all, but I don't want my kid preached to :)

Well I had a full religious education in both primary and secondary school and at no point was I preached to.

Even when these (catholic) schools held masses or any other religious events, it was optional for the students to attend.

That may not be the case for all schools, but it definitely should be.

[Lee.]

Well I had a full religious education in both primary and secondary school and at no point was I preached to.

Even when these (catholic) schools held masses or any other religious events, it was optional for the students to attend.

That may not be the case for all schools, but it definitely should be.

Ok.. Maybe "preached" was the wrong word. I just don't think religion should be part of children's education unless it means them learning about all religions

[Marsh.]

Have to agree with you there LT. If religious members want to start religious threads then they are free to do so (if they are willing to be challenged). Likewise, if anyone doesn't want to be involved in one of these threads then they are free to simply NOT click the link or engage in the discussion, and find another thread topic that they are willing to discuss...

One might theorise, based on the reactions to anti-organised-religion threads, that the reason religious people don't start religious threads is in fact because they don't want to be challenged. Most find it very emotionally challenging (and therefore get angry), because most have many complex emotions wrapped up in / repressed by faith. In my opinion, of course.

Or simply they don't need to have their religion/faith validated by a forum, just as plenty of atheists don't need to be validated either?

Let's face it, 90% of religion based topics on this forum is the OP asking for anyone who agrees with them (one way or the other) to come and convince them they are right.

[user104658]

I don't think it should be removed from schools but should be an option for people who want to study it. If you remove it completely it becomes a taboo subject and less likely that children will be able to come to informed choices on religion. In my opinion of course.

There's no problem with it being taught in schools in the same way that Historical religion (Greek, Roman, Norse etc.) is taught in schools in History classes, in my opinion. In fact, I distinctly remember learning about a number of world religions in Religious Education in that sort of detached way - Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism are a few that I remember learning about quite clearly. But it was taught as it should be... "Some people believe X, Y, Z", "Some people celebrate X, Y, Z because...". The problem with religious schooling is when it's taught as FACT... i.e. teaching the above but then being like "BUT the TRUTH is God/Jesus/Allah/whatever". Even my school, which was non-denominational, had Christian school assemblies every so often and it was only those I took issue with. Religious Education classes and learning about various cultures from an external perspective was fascinating... standing around while a man in black talks about fictional characters like they're his best friends, to be completely blunt, freaked my **** right out :umm2:.

So yeah... essentially, I have no problem with my kids being taught ABOUT any religion. I do have a problem with them being taught to BELIEVE one religion. Keep Jesus in the R.E. "some people believe" classes and we're all good.

[joeysteele]

Have to agree with you there LT. If religious members want to start religious threads then they are free to do so (if they are willing to be challenged). Likewise, if anyone doesn't want to be involved in one of these threads then they are free to simply NOT click the link or engage in the discussion, and find another thread topic that they are willing to discuss...

One might theorise, based on the reactions to anti-organised-religion threads, that the reason religious people don't start religious threads is in fact because they don't want to be challenged. Most find it very emotionally challenging (and therefore get angry), because most have many complex emotions wrapped up in / repressed by faith. In my opinion, of course.

Excepting surely that if someone starts a thread with a question why are God/s invisible, that thread and question would have virtually no relevance likely to Atheists who do not believe in God/s anyway.

So the only answers,whether right, possibly right, whether reasoned or totally wrong are then more likely to only come from those with a religious faith or belief in a supreme creator.
Since if they did not participate, then the question was probably pointless in the first place, as to Atheists God/s do not exist.

So when those with a faith or more open thought make a point as to the question asked,it seems to me rather pointless, to me anyway, of the questioner to try to belittle and attack all they say all the time.
That makes one wonder what was the point of asking the question in the first place considering in reality to Atheists there is not a question to either ask or be answered as to the topic.
Unless they only want a thread where they can ram their opinions at everyone, as in fact most religions do too,, dismissing totally what anyone else may say to the opposite view.

Someone mentioned earlier no one is now surely denying evolution too now.
Evolution itself does not rule out a creative source either as for something to evolve it must first exist.

[Livia]

Have to agree with you there LT. If religious members want to start religious threads then they are free to do so (if they are willing to be challenged). Likewise, if anyone doesn't want to be involved in one of these threads then they are free to simply NOT click the link or engage in the discussion, and find another thread topic that they are willing to discuss...

One might theorise, based on the reactions to anti-organised-religion threads, that the reason religious people don't start religious threads is in fact because they don't want to be challenged. Most find it very emotionally challenging (and therefore get angry), because most have many complex emotions wrapped up in / repressed by faith. In my opinion, of course.

Or... maybe they're just well aware of how it'll turn out. All the atheists getting together to accuse people with faith that they're pretty stupid really. Read through this thread, if you're honest about it you'll see what I mean.

You assume people are repressed, you assume a lot... the thing you never assume is that it's none of your business what people believe and knowing the thread will descend into this kind of meaningless nonsense maybe some of us prefer to keep our faith to ourselves. Pretty rich to expect people to justify themselves for your entertainment when all you want to do really is argue. That's not a debate.

[Lee.]

There's no problem with it being taught in schools in the same way that Historical religion (Greek, Roman, Norse etc.) is taught in schools in History classes, in my opinion. In fact, I distinctly remember learning about a number of world religions in Religious Education in that sort of detached way - Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism are a few that I remember learning about quite clearly. But it was taught as it should be... "Some people believe X, Y, Z", "Some people celebrate X, Y, Z because...". The problem with religious schooling is when it's taught as FACT... i.e. teaching the above but then being like "BUT the TRUTH is God/Jesus/Allah/whatever". Even my school, which was non-denominational, had Christian school assemblies every so often and it was only those I took issue with. Religious Education classes and learning about various cultures from an external perspective was fascinating... standing around while a man in black talks about fictional characters like they're his best friends, to be completely blunt, freaked my **** right out :umm2:.

So yeah... essentially, I have no problem with my kids being taught ABOUT any religion. I do have a problem with them being taught to BELIEVE one religion. Keep Jesus in the R.E. "some people believe" classes and we're all good.
Agree

[user104658]

Or simply they don't need to have their religion/faith validated by a forum, just as plenty of atheists don't need to be validated either?

Let's face it, 90% of religion based topics on this forum is the OP asking for anyone who agrees with them (one way or the other) to come and convince them they are right.

:nono: It's just my opinion.

In my experience of certain individuals who happen to hold certain beliefs that could be described as religious in nature, those individuals become very emotionally uncomfortable when faced with the prospect of an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I don't know if that applies to all religious people. Just the ones that I, in my personal experience, happen to have encountered. :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I haven't said any of that love.

Maybe take the same lesson as Kizzy and read a post in the context of the many posts that it follows to gauge a a better understanding? :hee:

I was not replying to you Marsh :shrug: it was bobnot


Now this thread is making you paranoid

[Marsh.]

:nono: It's just my opinion.

In my experience of certain individuals who happen to hold certain beliefs that could be described as religious in nature, those individuals become very emotionally uncomfortable when faced with the prospect of an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I don't know if that applies to all religious people. Just the ones that I, in my personal experience, happen to have encountered. :hee:

0/10. Must try harder next time. ;)

But, whether that's your opinion or not, it doesn't apply to this thread in particular. Started by a certain atheist to mock people who believe in a God or Gods.

But I would like to see where, exactly, in these 26 pages there's been an "in-depth discussion on the nature of faith". The foundation of this discussion isn't even interested in that. :joker:

[Livia]

:nono: It's just my opinion.

In my experience of certain individuals who happen to hold certain beliefs that could be described as religious in nature, those individuals become very emotionally uncomfortable when faced with the prospect of an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I don't know if that applies to all religious people. Just the ones that I, in my personal experience, happen to have encountered. :hee:

"An in-depth discussion on the nature of faith".

Do you think that's what this has been so far?

[Marsh.]

I was not replying to you Marsh :shrug:


Now this thread is making you paranoid

Yeah, you quoting me and using the word "morsh".

My goodness, you were clearly talking to Kizzy. :omgno:

Silly me. :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

"An in-depth discussion on the nature of faith".

Do you think that's what this has been so far?

we have tried but the "religious people" keep taking offence

Only Kirk tries to debate, to his great credit

[Crimson Dynamo]

and kaz to be fair

[Marsh.]

So why don't you debate in return LT?

It's your thread after all?

[user104658]

Or... maybe they're just well aware of how it'll turn out. All the atheists getting together to accuse people with faith that they're pretty stupid really. Read through this thread, if you're honest about it you'll see what I mean.

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.

You assume people are repressed, you assume a lot... the thing you never assume is that it's none of your business what people believe and knowing the thread will descend into this kind of meaningless nonsense maybe some of us prefer to keep our faith to ourselves. Pretty rich to expect people to justify themselves for your entertainment when all you want to do really is argue. That's not a debate.

I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what :shrug:. In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

[billy123]

So why don't you debate in return LT?

It's your thread after all?If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

[user104658]

0/10. Must try harder next time. ;)

But, whether that's your opinion or not, it doesn't apply to this thread in particular. Started by a certain atheist to mock people who believe in a God or Gods.

:omgno: in your opinion!



But I would like to see where, exactly, in these 26 pages there's been an "in-depth discussion on the nature of faith". The foundation of this discussion isn't even interested in that. :joker:

No no no, and to Livia as well, I didn't say that THIS was an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I said that, in my past experience of religious people when these topics are addressed, there is a strong aversion that stems from complex emotional involvement. Those past experiences are what have lead me to the OPINION that religious people don't make religious threads because they want to avoid that.

But like I said - I could be totally wrong because I obviously haven't met all 6-billion-or-so religious people in the world. So it's just my opinion based on my experiences :whistle:

[Marsh.]

No no no, and to Livia as well, I didn't say that THIS was an in-depth discussion on the nature of faith. I said that, in my past experience of religious people when these topics are addressed, there is a strong aversion that stems from complex emotional involvement. Those past experiences are what have lead me to the OPINION that religious people don't make religious threads because they want to avoid that.

But like I said - I could be totally wrong because I obviously haven't met all 6-billion-or-so religious people in the world. So it's just my opinion based on my experiences :whistle:

I am so glad you added that last sentence.

We don't need people returning to these pages in a few hours and getting hot and bothered over baseless generalisations. :fan:

[Marsh.]

If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

:clap1:

[Ammi]

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.



I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what :shrug:. In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

..I agree, I think many of us want that/it's the whole interesting part of discussion/debate but that can only happen..(imho of course..:laugh:..)...if things are actually discussed with respect and if people themselves aren't mocked...otherwise the person who is mocking is the one closing the discussion/debate down and making it less likely for any future thread participation...

[Ammi]

..actually just going back to Marsh, TS because I read your post about mis-interpreting...(which was lovely btw..)...one thing I do know with Marsh in his time on the forum, if he were to generalise..?...then he would own that generalisation completely, he's definitely not a 'back'peddlar' person..if it's his intention to say something then he totally stands by it and I think with no exception that I can recall atm..

[user104658]

..I agree, I think many of us want that/it's the whole interesting part of discussion/debate but that can only happen..(imho of course..:laugh:..)...if things are actually discussed with respect and if people themselves aren't mocked...otherwise the person who is mocking is the one closing the discussion/debate down and making it less likely for any future thread participation...

I'll tentatively agree that mocking can start to go too far... but I think it's fairly obvious that I personally like my discussions to be a little heated, and to involve a little bit of pigtail-pulling on both sides. I honestly believe that the most interesting and revealing opinions don't even start to come out until a little bit of the guard has been dropped. The challenge is finding the sweet spot between guards being dropped, and defenses going up :think:.

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages? :laugh:

[Marsh.]

..actually just going back to Marsh, TS because I read your post about mis-interpreting...(which was lovely btw..)...one thing I do know with Marsh in his time on the forum, if he were to generalise..?...then he would own that generalisation completely, he's definitely not a 'back'peddlar' person..if it's his intention to say something then he totally stands by it and I think with no exception that I can recall atm..

Thank you.

I don't have the reputation in TiBB Towers for being someone to shy away from what I think. :worry:

[Marsh.]

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages? :laugh:

Well when the majority of those 27 pages isn't even discussing the topic posed by the thread itself? :laugh:

[Ninastar]

My god, I'm not religious at all, but the way some of you are treating religious people is disgusting. Why can't you just leave them alone? Fair enough you don't believe but to patronize and act all high and mighty... There is just no need. Live and let live, seriously.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the last few pages of this thread have proved anything it is that there are a few very angry people on here that are only interested in trying to offend rather than debate. When i as an atheist get told to stop forcing religion on people you know theres being an extra dose of daft sprinkled on the thread.

Originally Posted by bobnot : "What on earth are you jibbering on about now?. :sleep: "


------

sigh, yes bob when we need a moral headteacher in this thread you are our go to guy


:rolleyes:

[Crimson Dynamo]

My god, I'm not religious at all, but the way some of you are treating religious people is disgusting. Why can't you just leave them alone? Fair enough you don't believe but to patronize and act all high and mighty... There is just no need. Live and let live, seriously.

really?

can you provide the thread post numbers where it has been disgusting?


just the numbers would be fine

[Livia]

In your opinion. In my opinion, certain individuals take needless personal offense and I can't help but wonder why that is. No one is questioning your intelligence, Livia.



I don't expect anything from anyone. I express my opinions openly on any thread that interests me and accept that any other member is free to do that also. Or not, if they're not comfortable with it, are bored by it, or simply think the thread is stupid. That's entirely their business. I don't care who replies to what :shrug:. In my opinion, I would LIKE it if lots of people responded to all sorts of threads because it makes them more interesting... you know... because in my opinion, a discussion forum is a fun distraction to muse over various issues and pass the time. Not an emotional investment. Not that it's any of my business if others DO take personal offense / become emotionally invested in things, either, of course. I just happen not to.

I have a faith. If you don't think my intelligence has been questioned in this thread then you haven't read it properly. No one's singled me out but I do belong to the group that is continually being accused of being gullible and stupid.

You can't expect to rudely, and without any more evidence than I have, debunk someone religion and culture and not have people take offence. I have taken offence at several comments in this thread because I have found them offensive. That is my prerogative. I like a fun debate too, I don't enjoy feeling defensive, which is what happens when the debate becomes offensive.

[Marsh.]

really?

can you provide the thread post numbers where it has been disgusting?


just the numbers would be fine

I'll start....

Post Number 1. :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'll start....

Post Number 1. :smug:

i am being serious

too many posts saying "this is an attack" etc and no evidence

[Marsh.]

i am being serious

too many posts saying "this is an attack" etc and no evidence

I'm being serious. :umm2:

Would you call the opening post to this "serious debate" actually serious, posing any sort of debate? I wouldn't.
It begins the mocking tone of the majority of the thread.

The first response was laughing smileys. That says it all.

[Ammi]

I'll tentatively agree that mocking can start to go too far... but I think it's fairly obvious that I personally like my discussions to be a little heated, and to involve a little bit of pigtail-pulling on both sides. I honestly believe that the most interesting and revealing opinions don't even start to come out until a little bit of the guard has been dropped. The challenge is finding the sweet spot between guards being dropped, and defenses going up :think:.

Just a thought though - if thread participation is inversely proportional to level of mockery... how do you explain this thread having 27 pages? :laugh:

...you're only looking at this one thread though and of course we've just finished CBB/the start of the off season etc and trying to get more threads going in all parts of the forum...you're not looking at future threads, God sees the bigger picture TS, the grand plan, type thing/he's most wise..:laugh:...



..(I actually don't have a faith in any religion/my faith is in people but intolerance of any kind doesn't sit well with me, including of religions/faiths/beliefs and non religion and intolerance has been show in this thread (at times and by some), I feel..)...

[Crimson Dynamo]

...you're only looking at this one thread though and of course we've just finished CBB/the start of the off season etc and trying to get more threads going in all parts of the forum...you're not looking at future threads, God sees the bigger picture TS, the grand plan, type thing/he's most wise..:laugh:...



..(I actually don't have a faith in any religion/my faith is in people but intolerance of any kind doesn't sit well with me, including of religions/faiths/beliefs and non religion and intolerance has been show in this thread (at times and by some), I feel..)...

I think some feel that religion should be shown some deference and others and i include myself dont

so therefore you get some hurt feelings


ultimately this thread is not compulsory

[Crimson Dynamo]

tl8acXl3qVs

This is a good watch and relates to the thread

[Marsh.]

I think some feel that religion should be shown some deference and others and i include myself dont

so therefore you get some hurt feelings


ultimately this thread is not compulsory

Nobody's mentioned deference.

Having a basic respect for other people isn't too much to ask.

[Ninastar]

really?

can you provide the thread post numbers where it has been disgusting?


just the numbers would be fine

just a few from 2 pages or so i read over (not going through the whole thread as I cba and I'm sure someone of the worst stuff has been deleted, but here goes...

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511030&postcount=582

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511249&postcount=610

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511283&postcount=614

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511288&postcount=617

Just some of the condescending posts I was on about. Again, I'm sure there are a lot more, but I have flu and I have no energy to look through the whole thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nobody's mentioned deference.

Having a basic respect for other people isn't too much to ask.

I mentioned it and if you think that someone has not been shown respect lets have the post numbers so we can see if you are right


again, lets see the evidence

SO far all i can see is bobnot insulting me by asking me what am i jibbering on about and using the :sleep: smilie

[Livia]

faith is just believing in stuff with no evidence

I dont find that admirable, in many respects its rather foolish

I think some feel that religion should be shown some deference and others and i include myself dont

so therefore you get some hurt feelings


ultimately this thread is not compulsory

Were you truly expecting someone to tell you why God is invisible? No... you just wanted to do a little bashing of people who do believe in God. Well, you've managed it perfectly. Half the world summed up and insulted and then accused of being overly sensitive.

[Marsh.]

I mentioned it and if you think that someone has not been shown respect lets have the post numbers so we can see if you are right


again, lets see the evidence

SO far all i can see is bobnot insulting me by asking me what am i jibbering on about and using the :sleep: smilie

Yes, you mentioned it, assuming people wanted religion/religious people to be treated with deference. Yet nobody in this thread has asked for or alluded to that at all?

Again, the very first post (along with the ones quoted by Ninastar), the actual basis of this very thread is mocking and condescending.

It's not actually the opener for a debate, it's a mocking comment.

To me, mocking =/= respect.

[Crimson Dynamo]

just a few from 2 pages or so i read over (not going through the whole thread as I cba and I'm sure someone of the worst stuff has been deleted, but here goes...

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511030&postcount=582


That is true statement about damnation

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511249&postcount=610

That is not insulting its is saying that evidence from books is hardly evidence - again you want deference but why?

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511283&postcount=614

? Kirk was trying to use creationism in a post, again you want deference

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511288&postcount=617

thats kizzy trying to be funny and to be fair all posters use humour
Just some of the condescending posts I was on about. Again, I'm sure there are a lot more, but I have flu and I have no energy to look through the whole thread.

It seems you want posters to defer to religion?

why?

[Marsh.]

SO far all i can see is bobnot insulting me by asking me what am i jibbering on about and using the :sleep: smilie

Who's acting all offended now? :laugh:

[Marsh.]

It seems you want posters to defer to religion?

why?

Asking to not be mocked and belittled is asking for deference? Ok. :unsure:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, you mentioned it, assuming people wanted religion/religious people to be treated with deference. Yet nobody in this thread has asked for or alluded to that at all?

Again, the very first post (along with the ones quoted by Ninastar), the actual basis of this very thread is mocking and condescending.

It's not actually the opener for a debate, it's a mocking comment.

To me, mocking =/= respect.

No Marsh it ie perfectly reasonable to ask the question


do a google search and see that it is a well debated topic and is answered by countless religious sites

and again, its not a compulsory thread

[Marsh.]

No Marsh it ie perfectly reasonable to ask the question


do a google search and see that it is a well debated topic and is answered by countless religious sites

and again, its not a compulsory thread

You asked a question "Why are Gods always invisible?" That's not a very well worded question to begin with, but that wasn't the sole content of the OP was it now?

Go back and refresh your memory....

:think:


Surely if you could see them more people would believe in them?


Below is one of the Gods that I am talking about




















.

:laugh2:

That'd be no fun LT, they're all up in Heaven having a good old giggle

Is this the start of a debate, or two posts having a "good old giggle"?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Asking to not be mocked and belittled is asking for deference? Ok. :unsure:

religion can be mocked and thankfully it is as it deserves to be


if a poster is mocked then report them as it is against the rules



If I posted a thread about being scottish do you think being scottish would not get a roasting but I would not spend my afternoon getting upset about it and neither would josy, marc or lee or firewire

[Crimson Dynamo]

You asked a question "Why are Gods always invisible?" That's not a very well worded question to begin with, but that wasn't the sole content of the OP was it now?

Go back and refresh your memory....





Is this the start of a debate, or two posts having a "good old giggle"?
are you saying religion should not be mocked?

[Marsh.]

religion can be mocked and thankfully it is as it deserves to be


if a poster is mocked then report them as it is against the rules



If I posted a thread about being scottish do you think being scottish would not get a roasting but I would not spend my afternoon getting upset about it and neither would josy, marc or lee or firewire

Ok, so now we're discussing something that hasn't happened? Ok.

Is discussing this thread itself not enough content for you?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Were you truly expecting someone to tell you why God is invisible? No... you just wanted to do a little bashing of people who do believe in God. Well, you've managed it perfectly. Half the world summed up and insulted and then accused of being overly sensitive.

there are countless decent replies to that question online, if anyone cared to google it


i did not expect anything other than a good debate

[billy123]

I mentioned it and if you think that someone has not been shown respect lets have the post numbers so we can see if you are right


again, lets see the evidence

SO far all i can see is bobnot insulting me by asking me what am i jibbering on about and using the :sleep: smilieYou really have got a hard on for me today havent you.
Early start today was it?

[Marsh.]

are you saying religion should not be mocked?

I haven't said whether it should or shouldn't be.

We were discussing whether this thread itself was mocking and belittling?
You claimed it wasn't and it was simply a debate. It isn't. The thread is started by mocking religion.

It's your thread. You know why you created it. And it wasn't for an in depth debate on faith and religion. So to pretend it was and the poor offended religious people are spoiling any chance for a debate, maybe you should have started such a discussion to begin with?

The 27 pages have just mainly followed in the tone the thread began with. Substance-free and laughable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok, so now we're discussing something that hasn't happened? Ok.

Is discussing this thread itself not enough content for you?

I hope you got the point

seems like you did

[Marsh.]

there are countless decent replies to that question online, if anyone cared to google it


i did not expect anything other than a good debate

Yeah, because countless people have started and created a decent discussion to begin with. Something your thread, sadly, completely failed at.

[Ninastar]

I haven't said whether it should or shouldn't be.

We were discussing whether this thread itself was mocking and belittling?
You claimed it wasn't and it was simply a debate. It isn't. The thread is started by mocking religion.

It's your thread. You know why you created it. And it wasn't for an in depth debate on faith and religion. So to pretend it was and the poor offended religious people are spoiling any chance for a debate, maybe you should have started such a discussion to begin with?

The 27 pages have just mainly followed in the tone the thread began with. Substance-free and laughable.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

So well put. I don't see the point of arguing anymore, but you keep it up Marsh. You're better with words than me anyway.

[Ammi]

I think some feel that religion should be shown some deference and others and i include myself dont

so therefore you get some hurt feelings


ultimately this thread is not compulsory

...hmm indeed and an interesting concept that perhaps could be applied across the forum, don't give your views in a thread in earnest without expecting them to be mocked/laughed at/scoffed at...maybe applied to our children as well in their guidance...sweetie,anyone believing in a God or having a faith, just laugh at them because they're so silly and dumb, of quite a low intelligence don't you know...and those ridiculous children who have nothing and live in poverty in other countries...let's take away their 'God' as well, the 'God' in whatever form that they see is some small sign of good in their world of 'evil'....I somehow don't see that, that would ever lead to any future generations of tolerance and lacking of prejudice....


..anyways, I don't want to see a 'ganging up and mocking LT now' thing because that's equally not good either so I'm leaving the thread now...

[kirklancaster]

You really have got a hard on for me today havent you.
Early start today was it?

:laugh: He might have Bob, but at least your comment WAS fecking hilarious. :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, because countless people have started and created a decent discussion to begin with. Something your thread, sadly, completely failed at.


Thankfully Marsh I dont require you to mark my threads and I am sorry that you got battered by Kizzy and TS a few times, dont take out your frustration on me

[Crimson Dynamo]

...hmm indeed and an interesting concept that perhaps could be applied across the forum, don't give your views in a thread in earnest without expecting them to be mocked/laughed at/scoffed at...maybe applied to our children as well in their guidance...sweetie,anyone believing in a God or having a faith, just laugh at them because they're so silly and dumb, of quite a low intelligence don't you know...and those ridiculous children who have nothing and live in poverty in other countries...let's take away their 'God' as well, the 'God' in whatever form that they see is some small sign of good in their world of 'evil'....I somehow don't see that, that would ever lead to any future generations of tolerance and lacking of prejudice....


..anyways, I don't want to see a 'ganging up and mocking LT now' thing because that's equally not good either so I'm leaving the thread now...

It seems that a few on here have forgotten Charlie Hebdo already!

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh: He might have Bob, but at least your comment WAS fecking hilarious. :hehe:

:nono:

it was mildly amusing

for bob

[Marsh.]

Thankfully Marsh I dont require you to mark my threads and I am sorry that you got battered by Kizzy and TS a few times, dont take out your frustration on me

Do you ever actually respond to something I've said, or are you always going to respond by diverting attention to something else?

The misunderstanding between myself, Kizzy and TS ended and was resolved pages ago?

Yet you're pointing back to it as though not wanting the focus to be brought back to the actual thread/post that started this so called discussion to begin with?

[Kizzy]

Chewing over it?

No sweetie. I was discussing it with Toy Soldier and other posters who have entered the thread since you left.

And since many of these posters have gone back and conceded they'd mis interpreted the discussion, it was only yourself coming in and taking the discussion off course (as always) the caused the misunderstanding.

You can continue to stubbornly believe you're right yet again kizzy, I'm passed caring.

I see you've quoted my other posts again to repeat your incorrect understanding of them. I've already corrected you, I won't bother again because you don't actually read/listen to anyone but yourself.

I had my say and voiced my opinion Marsh what followed is not my issue.
All I saw from yourself were patronising comments and the accusation I was a trouble causer.
Neither of which are fair.

[Marsh.]

All I saw from yourself were patronising comments

Yes, I respond to posts in the same manner they are directed at me.

*takes dancing shoes off*

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do you ever actually respond to something I've said, or are you always going to respond by diverting attention to something else?

The misunderstanding between myself, Kizzy and TS ended and was resolved pages ago?

Yet you're pointing back to it as though not wanting the focus to be brought back to the actual thread/post that started this so called discussion to begin with?

Oh and whilst you are on your Moral High Horse

Do you think making a whole thread mocking me was a good idea?


you could not make it up

:facepalm:

[Lee.]

Is that your photo in the other thread LT?

[Marsh.]

Oh and whilst you are on your Moral High Horse

Do you think making a whole thread mocking me was a good idea?


you could not make it up

:facepalm:

You mean religion/religious people shouldn't spoil your thread by feigning offence at things that are just your opinion but you are allowed to take offence?

Golly gosh. I didn't realise you were such a sensitive soul.

If mocking threads are permitted, then there is nothing at all wrong with my thread. After all, this one remains and even the first responder was a mod who simply laughed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is that your photo in the other thread LT?

:bawling:

yes Marsh is mocking me

I could report him :think:

[Kizzy]

just a few from 2 pages or so i read over (not going through the whole thread as I cba and I'm sure someone of the worst stuff has been deleted, but here goes...

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511030&postcount=582

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511249&postcount=610

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511283&postcount=614

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8511288&postcount=617

Just some of the condescending posts I was on about. Again, I'm sure there are a lot more, but I have flu and I have no energy to look through the whole thread.

What did you find condescending about my post?

[Marsh.]

I could report him :think:

You'll have to get in the queue. :idc:

Josy's already clocked up enough overtime this week dealing with my infractions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You mean religion/religious people shouldn't spoil your thread by feigning offence at things that are just your opinion but you are allowed to take offence?

Golly gosh. I didn't realise you were such a sensitive soul.

If mocking threads are permitted, then there is nothing at all wrong with my thread. After all, this one remains and even the first responder was a mod who simply laughed.

marsh all you are doing is thinking that by mocking religion we are mocking individual members and sorry if you have evidence of that I suggest you use the report function.

Religion in this country can and should be mocked, criticise and taken apart until it is ousted from schools and politics, that is my view and the view of other posters - if you disagree then say so but leave the "prince butthurt routine" at home

[Kizzy]

Yes, I respond to posts in the same manner they are directed at me.

*takes dancing shoes off*

Again your very first comment to me in relation to the topic began with 'Eh?,' if we're discussing suitable responses I don't feel that was one and set the tone...

[Crimson Dynamo]

You'll have to get in the queue. :idc:

Josy's already clocked up enough overtime this week dealing with my infractions.

if this was 6 hours later/1 half bottle later looking at an April return

:fan:

[Marsh.]

marsh all you are doing is thinking that by mocking religion we are mocking individual members and sorry if you have evidence of that I suggest you use the report function.

I haven't said that.

You said this thread was supposed to be an actual debate or discussion and not about mocking. Yet, the thread clearly starts with that premise.

Whether it's mocking religion itself or individual members/people, that is the tone set by the thread. It's not posing or asking for debate or discussion.

It's taking the piss with an offhand comment and the tone of the thread followed from that. If the title at the top of the page wasn't "Serious Debates & News" I'd assume we were in chat and games.

I hazard a guess if other types of discussions began with an OP like that, it would probably be moved to another section (as several of them always are). But then a mod found it funny, so horses for courses I guess.

[Marsh.]

Again your very first comment to me in relation to the topic began with 'Eh?,' if we're discussing suitable responses I don't feel that was one and set the tone...

Apologies for offending you with "Eh?".

[Crimson Dynamo]

I haven't said that.

You said this thread was supposed to be an actual debate or discussion and not about mocking. Yet, the thread clearly starts with that premise.

Whether it's mocking religion itself or individual members/people, that is the tone set by the thread. It's not posing or asking for debate or discussion.

It's taking the piss with an offhand comment and the tone of the thread followed from that. If the title at the top of the page wasn't "Serious Debates & News" I'd assume we were in chat and games.

I hazard a guess if other types of discussions began with an OP like that, it would probably be moved to another section (as several of them always are). But then a mod found it funny, so horses for courses I guess.

i just made a perfectly good debate thread, how it turns out is not up to me

dont make out the mods are not doing their jobs here :nono:

[Marsh.]

i just made a perfectly good debate thread, how it turns out is not up to me

No. It's about everyone else, other people you keep kindly diverting my attention to. :smug:

Oh, look, shiny!


dont make out the mods are not doing their jobs here :nono:

:smug:

[kirklancaster]

I posted THE post below at 8.54 am AND I am still waiting for a response from L.T. or one of his able deputies. :laugh:
.................................................. ...................


Today, 08:54 AM #584
kirklancaster
Senior Member

kirklancaster's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,829
Default
To All Ye Doubters:

PROVE TO ME - using the same criterion you demand of us believers concerning God - that ANY of these people ACTUALLY existed:

Pythagoras
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Empedocles

Good Luck.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I posted THE post below at 8.54 am AND I am still waiting for a response from L.T. or one of his able deputies. :laugh:
.................................................. ...................


Today, 08:54 AM #584
kirklancaster
Senior Member

kirklancaster's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,829
Default
To All Ye Doubters:

PROVE TO ME - using the same criterion you demand of us believers concerning God - that ANY of these people ACTUALLY existed:

Pythagoras
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Empedocles

Good Luck.

why who is saying that they dont exist?

[kirklancaster]

why who is saying that they dont exist?

:laugh::laugh: THAT is NOT the point L.T. - but let's just say I am. How are you going to PROVE that they did?

[Marsh.]

Divert! Divert! Divert! :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh::laugh: THAT is NOT the point L.T. - but let's just say I am. How are you going to PROVE that they did?

why would I want to its their works that matter

unlike say jesus, as christianity lives and dies by his actual exsistance and the fact he could do supernatural things

[Crimson Dynamo]

last time i looked none of them claimed to walk on water...

[Marsh.]

Matters?

Screw the pythagoras triangle, I prefer circles myself.

[kirklancaster]

Divert! Divert! Divert! :hehe:

:laugh:

[user104658]

Just a quick heads up, but there's actually a large debate over whether or not socrates was real or simply a fictional character used as a mouthpiece by Plato... Sooo...

Anyway, I guess my other point would simply be that we COULD research and debate whether or not those people were real and - importantly - no one would end up getting upset over it?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just a quick heads up, but there's actually a large debate over whether or not socrates was real or simply a fictional character used as a mouthpiece by Plato... Sooo...

Anyway, I guess my other point would simply be that we COULD research and debate whether or not those people were real and - importantly - no one would end up getting upset over it?

dont bet on it...



"why are you attacking The Greeks, when will the hate end :bawling:"

[Marsh.]

Just a quick heads up, but there's actually a large debate over whether or not socrates was real or simply a fictional character used as a mouthpiece by Plato... Sooo...

Anyway, I guess my other point would simply be that we COULD research and debate whether or not those people were real and - importantly - no one would end up getting upset over it?

That's my great-great-great-great etc Grandfather so you better watch your ****ing mouth! :oh:

[bots]

Socrates did exist :fist:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02076/Socrates1_2076972c.jpg

[user104658]

why are you attacking The Greeks

#Justice4Plates

[kirklancaster]

Just a quick heads up, but there's actually a large debate over whether or not socrates was real or simply a fictional character used as a mouthpiece by Plato... Sooo...

Anyway, I guess my other point would simply be that we COULD research and debate whether or not those people were real and - importantly - no one would end up getting upset over it?

True - But I'm not upset T.S.

By the way, I can't argue with your points in your 'Organised Religion' post, but my choice of a 'new colour' in my post was merely for example and it could easily apply to a new chemical element or some new technology - my point being, that it would be pretty damned hard for a comparative mental pygmy (as in bronze age people ) to rationalise WITHOUT the use of parable and metaphor. Hence; Adam and Eve to explain creation.

[kirklancaster]

That's my great-great-great-great etc Grandfather so you better watch your ****ing mouth! :oh:

:laugh::laugh: Haaa! Threatening violence. Now we know who put the 'Sock' in 'Sockrates'.

[kirklancaster]

Socrates did exist :fist:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02076/Socrates1_2076972c.jpg

:laugh: PROVE it BOTS - Because L.T. doesn't look like he's bothered. :laugh: (And NOT the bloody footballer.)

[bots]

What about evidence of existence for things that don't exist. Santa has left his mark all over the world

http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jsUBJFXXXXXdXVXXq6xXFXXXl/Red-Riding-font-b-Hood-b-font-Christmas-Costume-Adult-font-b-Santa-b-font-font.jpg

[Johnnyuk123]

[QUOTE=bitontheslide;8512060]What about evidence of existence for things that don't exist. Santa has left his mark all over the world


Oh no.:facepalm:

http://rs952.pbsrc.com/albums/ae5/Noble04/My%20Documents/newsletter%20pictures/a_can_of_worms_sm_nwm.gif~c200

[Crimson Dynamo]

What about evidence of existence for things that don't exist. Santa has left his mark all over the world

http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jsUBJFXXXXXdXVXXq6xXFXXXl/Red-Riding-font-b-Hood-b-font-Christmas-Costume-Adult-font-b-Santa-b-font-font.jpg

in first for the

Id come down her chimney

post

[kirklancaster]

in first for the

Id come down her chimney

post

:laugh: But what you REALLY mean, is that You'd go up her flue. :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

Socrates did exist.Go watch Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure for all the proof you need.

[Northern Monkey]

What about evidence of existence for things that don't exist. Santa has left his mark all over the world

http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jsUBJFXXXXXdXVXXq6xXFXXXl/Red-Riding-font-b-Hood-b-font-Christmas-Costume-Adult-font-b-Santa-b-font-font.jpg

I'd empty my sack on her rug

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'd empty my sack on her rug

:laugh2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh: But what you REALLY mean, is that You'd go up her flue. :laugh:

id be up her flue


in a minute or two

:hehe:

[Kazanne]

:nono:Stop it you dirty boys

[Crimson Dynamo]

:nono:Stop it you dirty boys

:shame:

[kirklancaster]

id be up her flue


in a minute or two

:hehe:

If SHE crept into YOUR bedroom on Christmas Eve night, it would be HER who received a surprise gift. :laugh:

And YOU'd be hoping she's a Hoe Hoe Hoe.

[kirklancaster]

:nono:Stop it you dirty boys

:laugh: He's a bad influence Kaz - tell him off.

[Johnnyuk123]

What about evidence of existence for things that don't exist. Santa has left his mark all over the world

http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jsUBJFXXXXXdXVXXq6xXFXXXl/Red-Riding-font-b-Hood-b-font-Christmas-Costume-Adult-font-b-Santa-b-font-font.jpg

She'd defo have you screaming Jesus in no time at all.

[user104658]

If SHE crept into YOUR bedroom on Christmas Eve night, it would be HER who received a surprise gift. :laugh:

And YOU'd be hoping she's a Hoe Hoe Hoe.

Yeah! If she's a ho ho ho for sho' sho' sho, no one will ever believe her when she goes crying to the police about the "surprise gift" :hehe:

... ... ... :umm2:

[Jamie89]

So incase anyone's wondering, it takes 30 pages for a religious discussion to turn into santa porn :laugh:

[Alf]

So incase anyone's wondering, it takes 30 pages for a religious discussion to turn into santa porn :laugh:
These fantasies take time to evolve.

[user104658]

So incase anyone's wondering, it takes 30 pages for a religious discussion to turn into santa porn :laugh:

We need to make more threads just to be sure.

[user104658]

:joker: I thoroughly recommend google image searching "Santa Porn" by the way. A rewarding experience.

[Johnnyuk123]

So incase anyone's wondering, it takes 30 pages for a religious discussion to turn into santa porn :laugh:

Were adding more interesting content for the book sales.:hehe: