Why are Gods always invisible?

[Crimson Dynamo]

:think:


Surely if you could see them more people would believe in them?


Below is one of the Gods that I am talking about




















.

[Niamh.]

:laugh2:

That'd be no fun LT, they're all up in Heaven having a good old giggle

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Because y'all can't handle it. But we'll see them at the end of times. That's why it's all about having the faith.

[Niamh.]

Because y'all can't handle it. But we'll see them at the end of times. That's why it's all about having the faith.

which ones?

[arista]

"Why are Gods always invisible?"

Because they do not Exist

[RichardG]

I just sat for about a minute waiting for an image to load in the op :facepalm:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because y'all can't handle it. But we'll see them at the end of times. That's why it's all about having the faith.

I think the word that comes mind here is "convenient"

[Niamh.]

I just sat for about a minute waiting for an image to load in the op :facepalm:

:laugh3:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just sat for about a minute waiting for an image to load in the op :facepalm:

:laugh2:

[arista]

There was a good one in the Star Trek Film
ending


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WKGiFYozIts/Vli72fJGEQI/AAAAAAAAHuE/vuwLvocr0_A/s400/star-trek-v-the-final-frontier-god.jpg

He wants to join with the Spaceship,
Bring it Closer - it says.......

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

which ones?

There's only one, God. Jesus is his son. You will also see Satan. That's earth's god. That's why we suffer. :bawling:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I think the word that comes mind here is "convenient"

Maybe.:shrug: Y'all too ratchet for God. :D

[arista]

http://www.filmmakingreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/god.jpg


it sounds great in 5.1 DTS


"Bring It closer......So I may join with It......."

[Crimson Dynamo]

There's only one, God. Jesus is his son. You will also see Satan. That's earth's god. That's why we suffer. :bawling:

i thought Jesus was meant to be God?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.filmmakingreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/god.jpg


it sounds great in 5.1 DTS


"Bring It closer......So I may join with It......."

that looks like Boris Becker with a beard

[Livia]

God is invisible to allow the atheists, cynics and those with no faith to have something to write about.

[arista]

that looks like Boris Becker with a beard


No it the God thats
demands the Spaceship is brought closer
so it join with it.

[arista]

x9sqkahSziU


Bring It Closer


"Give me What I Want"


There you are LT there is your God

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

i thought Jesus was meant to be God?

No Jesus is the son of man. To get to God you have to get through him.

[Livia]

ITILYT is right, Trumpet. If you want to get to God you have to go through a Jew.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

ITILYT is right, Trumpet. If you want to get to God you have to go through a Jew.

:shocked:

[Niamh.]

ITILYT is right, Trumpet. If you want to get to God you have to go through a Jew.

:laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

The truth is that they are a human construct.The ancient Egyptians kind of brought them to life by claiming that the Pharoah was a god on earth.Of all of the religions i think they were the coolest and most interesting for me.They had loads of gods all with their own abilities and back stories.The three main ones we have now are just dull in comparison.

[Crimson Dynamo]

ITILYT is right, Trumpet. If you want to get to God you have to go through a Jew.

Is that an offer

:creep:

[Livia]

Is that an offer

:creep:

LOL... what if it is?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No Jesus is the son of man. To get to God you have to get through him.

So who is the holy Ghost?

:think:

[Niamh.]

So who is the holy Ghost?

:think:

Obviously he's the easiest one to get through

[Crimson Dynamo]

Obviously he's the easiest one to get through

:joker:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

So who is the holy Ghost?

:think:

Holy Ghost is more like your personal guide. He's also very important. In the name of the son, the father and the Holy Ghost. He's like a gift.

You just feel a certain sense of peace if you are doing things right as a Christian. I don't want to hear about people finding peace on looking at mountains or etc not worldly peace but an everlasting peace. If you die tomorrow you can't take the view of the mounting that's for sure :D

[Crimson Dynamo]

Holy Ghost is more like your personal guide. He's also very important. In the name of the son, the father and the Holy Ghost. He's like a gift.

You just feel a certain sense of peace if you are doing things right as a Christian. I don't want to hear about people finding peace on looking at mountains or etc not worldly peace but an everlasting peace. If you die tomorrow you can't take the view of the mounting that's for sure :D

and do you believe that this is real or just stuff made up in some book?

[kirklancaster]

There's only one, God. Jesus is his son. You will also see Satan. That's earth's god. That's why we suffer. :bawling:

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Gstar]

welp @ this thread

[Crimson Dynamo]

welp @ this thread

welp is not a permitted word in SD

:nono:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

and do you believe that this is real or just stuff made up in some book?

I believe it because when I was small docs gave me weeks to live and out of nowhere I wrote a letter please Jesus I don't want to die and I survived. My dad still has that letter and I influenced the whole family to start praying. :laugh:

Also I feel it when I do things right. You get some satisfaction that you just don't get with earthly things. People have the notion that if you have that faith then everything will magically become perfect, nope. That's not what having the faith is about.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I believe it because when I was small docs gave me weeks to leave and out of nowhere I wrote a letter please Jesus I don't want to die and I survived. My dad still has that letter and I influenced the whole family to start praying. :laugh:

Also I feel it when I do things right. You get some satisfaction that you just don't get with earthly things.

you do realise that every day 20,000 children die of hunger and preventable disease, thats every day of the year?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

you do realise that every day 20,000 children die of hunger and preventable disease, thats every day of the year?

And this is why I have been dropping my little words here and there because I knew this was coming.

Satan is the God of this earth. That's why there's all this pain and suffering that's what he likes and that's why God says come to me.

Also I said being a Christian doesn't mean that everything is suppose to be perfect, perfect as we see it down here. Speaking of children, children are meek they go to heaven. So I can't speak for their purpose everyone has their journey :shrug:

[Kazanne]

you do realise that every day 20,000 children die of hunger and preventable disease, thats every day of the year?

That is not by Gods hand though LT,it's by ours.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And this is why I have been dropping my little words here and there because I knew this was coming.

Satan is the God of this earth. That's why there's all this pain and suffering that's what he likes and that's why God says come to me.

Also I said being a Christian doesn't mean that everything is suppose to be perfect, perfect as we see it down here. Speaking of children, children are meek they go to heaven. So I can't speak for their purpose everyone has their journey :shrug:

there is no such thing as satan

he is a character in a book


like voldermort

[Crimson Dynamo]

That is not by Gods hand though LT,it's by ours.

the poster was suggesting that he survived by writing a letter to jesus

suggesting that this particular god chooses who can live or die

[MB.]

Carly Rae Jepsen isn't invisible thank you

[Crimson Dynamo]

Carly Rae Jepsen isn't invisible thank you

more is the pity


:hee:

[MB.]

more is the pity


:hee:

Even more room for ha angelic voice then http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar60738_37.gif

[MB.]

(also yes, welp indeed)

[Kizzy]

Lip service... That's what I see from so called christians and other faiths there's no humility, no compassion, no empathy, no charity, no honesty.
If god is over all, in all and through all what do we need religion for?
I'll tell you why...Power. And that as we know, is bad. :nono:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

there is no such thing as satan

he is a character in a book


like voldermort

Aw :pat:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Lip service... That's what I see from so called christians and other faiths there's no humility, no compassion, no empathy, no charity, no honesty.
If god is over all, in all and through all what do we need religion for?
I'll tell you why...Power. And that as we know, is bad. :nono:

Sounds like you've met the shady Christians. Like Jesus said many will come in my name. Not everyone that say they are Christians are. Religion and Christianity/ faith is 2 separate things. I'm 200 % faulty but I hope to get there one day.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Aw :pat:

this is serious debates, if you can defend your post please do so with words


if you cant please say so

[Johnnyuk123]

I've always wondered why god is bad with money. He always needs money. Build a planet in seven days no problem. But somehow he just can't handle money.:shrug:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

this is serious debates, if you can defend your post please do so with words


if you cant please say so

I already did we're just going around in circles. :laugh: If you choose not to have faith good for you, I choose to have it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I already did we're just going around in circles. :laugh: If you choose not to have faith good for you, I choose to have it.

faith is just believing in stuff with no evidence

I dont find that admirable, in many respects its rather foolish

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I've always wondered why god is bad with money. He always needs money. Build a planet in seven days no problem. But somehow he just can't handle money.:shrug:

Tithe is not for god and it is optional. It's to help the church keep afloat. God fully flows with taxes and the notion of business transactions. It's pretty easy, you use this church, help us keep it afloat that's the original concept of the tithe, however some false pastors abuse it. Shame.

And an offering is a bit different, it's like a gift. Also optional.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so why is your god invisible then?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

so why is your god invisible then?

Don't worry you will see him when the time comes. The thing is to prepare yourself for it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't worry you will see him when the time comes. The thing is to prepare yourself for it.

and again, you believe this because some one told you



do you believe everything people tell you?

[Kizzy]

Sounds like you've met the shady Christians. Like Jesus said many will come in my name. Not everyone that say they are Christians are. Religion and Christianity/ faith is 2 separate things. I'm 200 % faulty but I hope to get there one day.

If you're 200% faulty are you a shady Christian?
I agree religion and faith are 2 separate things, I think that's when things became corrupted.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

If you're 200% faulty are you a shady Christian?
I agree religion and faith are 2 separate things, I think that's when things became corrupted.

Nah, i'm not shady i'm just not perfect. Nobody will ever be but God is not demanding perfection.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

and again, you believe this because some one told you



do you believe everything people tell you?

Nah I feel it. Just like I don't know what made me write that letter when I was little.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nah I feel it. Just like I don't know what made me write that letter when I was little.

believing in gods based on anecdotal evidence is not exactly a strong bedrock for a belief system

at best its just wishful thinking

have you not tried to look for any actual evidence? :shrug:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

believing in gods based on anecdotal evidence is not exactly a strong bedrock for a belief system

at best its just wishful thinking

have you not tried to look for any actual evidence? :shrug:
Yo dude I've been saying my faith is not solely based on "anecdotes". My fam wasn't even praying when I wrote that letter to Jesus when I was young.

The complex formation of the planets and the universe, that we actually exist, and things revealed in the book of revelation starting to happen are just a few things. Other than that it's just something that you feel. You either have it or you don't. Also the fact that it is one of the longest debated things, pretty much since earth began proves that this is always present.

If people want to believe earth began by some explosions or whatever good for you dudes. But hey I am not a pastor. If you're looking for deeper answers talk to a pastor with 30 yrs or more experience he will have better answers than me.

[bots]

Blessed are the Ori

[Crimson Dynamo]

"and things revealed in the book of revelation starting to happen "

pray tell

[Jamie89]

Also, if god is invisible and he made us in his image, then why aren't we invisible too?

[bots]

Also, if god is invisible and he made us in his image, then why aren't we invisible too?

god didn't need to be invisible back then, cause there was no-one around that could see him:shrug:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

god didn't need to be invisible back then, cause there was no-one around that could see him:shrug:

Most likely the way we look. Legs and face and all that good stuff. He doesn't mean that we are the same as him in ability.

[Kizzy]

Nah, i'm not shady i'm just not perfect. Nobody will ever be but God is not demanding perfection.

Why are there so many provisos to being in a religion then?
It's a given we're not perfect, yet I get the feeling that having a religion gives many a get out of jail (or hell) free card, allowing many to be total flakes in the vain hope that the cloak of religion is enough to cover any and all flaws.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

"and things revealed in the book of revelation starting to happen "

pray tell

Look around you booboo or pick up the book.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Look around you booboo or pick up the book.

sadly, like every religionist who has come here all you have is nothing

your "faith" is no more than believing what you have been told

you cant even give me a single reason why your god is invisible, yet there are plenty scriptures that could, you dont even know your own bible

at best you resort to patronising banter


i doubt you even believe your own self

[AnnieK]

Faith, or lack of it, is such a personal thing. Those with faith will never be able to explain it to those without and vice versa. Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being that is invisible but those who do believe just "know" there is something there. Rubbishing other people's views won't change anyone's minds on either side in my opinion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Faith, or lack of it, is such a personal thing. Those with faith will never be able to explain it to those without and vice versa. Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being that is invisible but those who do believe just "know" there is something there. Rubbishing other people's views won't change anyone's minds on either side in my opinion.

" Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being "

what on earth does that mean?:joker:

[AnnieK]

" Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being "

what on earth does that mean?:joker:

I would have thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. You want people to provide proof of a god...they can't but "know" what they believe and you can't compute that. Not sure what so difficult to understand :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would have thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. You want people to provide proof of a god...they can't but "know" what they believe and you can't compute that. Not sure what so difficult to understand :shrug:

people believe all sorts of crap, you know that

this is why


"god told me to do this" wont wash in court

this is why

when a neighbour smashes your car window "but an invisible man said smash it" does not persuade you

in the real world we work on real things, evidence, what crap you believe in your own home is just that

crap

[Marsh.]

i thought Jesus was meant to be God?

:facepalm:

If you're going to try and pick apart religion/beliefs then at least get some understanding of them first. :smug:

[billy123]

I've always wondered why god is bad with money. He always needs money. Build a planet in seven days no problem. But somehow he just can't handle money.:shrug:Have you got any more stolen George Carlin quotes or is it just the one?

[Marsh.]

I've always wondered why god is bad with money. He always needs money. Build a planet in seven days no problem. But somehow he just can't handle money.:shrug:

God's never asked me for money.

Maybe next time close the door and go back to sleep.

[Marsh.]

people believe all sorts of crap, you know that

this is why


"god told me to do this" wont wash in court

this is why

when a neighbour smashes your car window "but an invisible man said smash it" does not persuade you

in the real world we work on real things, evidence, what crap you believe in your own home is just that

crap

Of course it doesn't wash, because whether someone told you to do something or not has no bearing on you committing a crime.

If God did exist and did tell you to do something, you are still responsible for doing what he asked. :shrug:

If you were told to put your hand in the fire, would you? :fist:

[Marsh.]

Why are there so many provisos to being in a religion then?
It's a given we're not perfect, yet I get the feeling that having a religion gives many a get out of jail (or hell) free card, allowing many to be total flakes in the vain hope that the cloak of religion is enough to cover any and all flaws.

Eh?

Whether individuals don't follow a religion but "hope" that calling themselves a Christian or the fact they go to church every Sunday will save them "just in case" has nothing to do with the religions themselves.

[Kizzy]

Eh?

Whether individuals don't follow a religion but "hope" that calling themselves a Christian or the fact they go to church every Sunday will save them "just in case" has nothing to do with the religions themselves.

Do you really want to dance with me too? Ok put your tap shoes on Billy Elliot.

I think religions were specifically devised for people just like that.

[Marsh.]

Do you really want to dance with me too? Ok put your tap shoes on Billy Elliot.

I'm not quite sure whether you take yourself just that seriously or it's a bad joke.

I'll let you confirm before I respond. :laugh:

I think religions were specifically devised for people just like that.

"Yeah, let's create a religion with strict moral codes and some even with clothing and food restrictions just so people can not follow them."

[Kizzy]

I'm not quite sure whether you take yourself just that seriously or it's a bad joke.

I'll let you confirm before I respond. :laugh:

Um, Joke?... hehe



"Yeah, let's create a religion with strict moral codes and some even with clothing and food restrictions just so people can not follow them."

Bingo, yes that's exactly what I think, and many do follow them, millions and millions.

[bots]

Eh?

Whether individuals don't follow a religion but "hope" that calling themselves a Christian or the fact they go to church every Sunday will save them "just in case" has nothing to do with the religions themselves.

That's not true though is it. Many have died in the name of a religion because they have been promised eternal salvation in the promised land, therefore they are prepared to do anything, risk anything in the name of that religion knowing all will be fine and dandy in the end

[kirklancaster]

Faith, or lack of it, is such a personal thing. Those with faith will never be able to explain it to those without and vice versa. Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being that is invisible but those who do believe just "know" there is something there. Rubbishing other people's views won't change anyone's minds on either side in my opinion.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Absolutely 100% spot on Annie. But then again, L.T. KNOWS this. We have all danced this dance so many times before.

[Lostie!]

Faith, or lack of it, is such a personal thing. Those with faith will never be able to explain it to those without and vice versa. Some people are just scientifically minded and therefore cannot grasp the idea of am omnipresent being that is invisible but those who do believe just "know" there is something there. Rubbishing other people's views won't change anyone's minds on either side in my opinion.

Very well said, Annie :clap2:

[kirklancaster]

Do you really want to dance with me too? Ok put your tap shoes on Billy Elliot.

I think religions were specifically devised for people just like that.

I don't know just how to say this without risking being infracted or worse when some anonymous soul complains to the mods for no reason - But I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND just WHAT you are actually saying half the time. :shrug:

Your posts always seem to criticise, deride, or deny others viewpoints, but you seldom actually ever state just WHAT your actual viewpoint really is.

Do you believe in God?

Do you really believe that ALL religions were 'manufactured' by sinister people for the sole purpose of having 'power' and 'control' of other people?

[Alf]

Most likely the way we look. Legs and face and all that good stuff. He doesn't mean that we are the same as him in ability.
You sound like his PA

[Crimson Dynamo]

You sound like his PA

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:facepalm:

If you're going to try and pick apart religion/beliefs then at least get some understanding of them first. :smug:

John 10. 30

Ihave a far greater understanding of the Bible than you morsh

[Kizzy]

I don't know just how to say this without risking being infracted or worse when some anonymous soul complains to the mods for no reason - But I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND just WHAT you are actually saying half the time. :shrug:

Your posts always seem to criticise, deride, or deny others viewpoints, but you seldom actually ever state just WHAT your actual viewpoint really is.

Do you believe in God?

Do you really believe that ALL religions were 'manufactured' by sinister people for the sole purpose of having 'power' and 'control' of other people?

Not true.
Yes.

[Marsh.]

Bingo, yes that's exactly what I think, and many do follow them, millions and millions.

Yes many do follow them. Many of them very strict followers too.

So why would the religions themselves want "flaky followers"?

[Marsh.]

John 10. 30

Ihave a far greater understanding of the Bible than you morsh

Not if you can't understand the meaning of the Holy Trinity bab :hee:

[Marsh.]

Also, if god is invisible and he made us in his image, then why aren't we invisible too?

Who even said he is invisible?

The housemates in Big Brother can't actually SEE Big Brother, does that make him invisible?

No, because he/she don't show themselves. :smug:

[Marsh.]

That's not true though is it. Many have died in the name of a religion because they have been promised eternal salvation in the promised land, therefore they are prepared to do anything, risk anything in the name of that religion knowing all will be fine and dandy in the end

What's not true?

Your post has next to nothing to do with mine. :laugh:

There are extremists and flaky followers and people in the middle, not sure what you're getting at.

[Alf]

Big bearded toga wearing killjoy.

[Jamie89]

Who even said he is invisible?

The housemates in Big Brother can't actually SEE Big Brother, does that make him invisible?

No, because he/she don't show themselves. :smug:

The OP :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not if you can't understand the meaning of the Holy Trinity bab :hee:

I do know the vague illogical holy trinity arguments but I wanted to see if our resident religionists could kd perhaps summarise. I quickly found out they could not

[Marsh.]

I do know the vague illogical holy trinity arguments but I wanted to see if our resident religionists could kd perhaps summarise. I quickly found out they could not

Why would you want to "see" if religious people could summarise something you already know the answer to? :unsure:

[Marsh.]

The OP :hee:

Is LT God now?

http://i3.cdnds.net/14/03/300x300/lionel_blows_his_top_500x281-1.jpg

[Jamie89]

Is LT God now?

http://i3.cdnds.net/14/03/300x300/lionel_blows_his_top_500x281-1.jpg

No but he posed the theoretical question which I was commenting on :fist:

(Although LT being god would explain most of the worlds problems, so... :think:)

[Jamie89]

I'm joking btw LT :worry: :joker:

[Kizzy]

Yes many do follow them. Many of them very strict followers too.

So why would the religions themselves want "flaky followers"?

Did I say they wanted flakey followers?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

You sound like his PA

I would love that. Use me, oh lord. Let me bask in all your glory and your strength. Amen.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why would you want to "see" if religious people could summarise something you already know the answer to? :unsure:

I am God and that's kind of what we do

:hee:

We also smite and sh1t

[Marsh.]

No but he posed the theoretical question which I was commenting on :fist:

(Although LT being god would explain most of the worlds problems, so... :think:)

My "who said God was invisible" was a rhetorical question, not directed at anyone. :fist:

[Marsh.]

Did I say they wanted flakey followers?

I responded to a comment you made about "total flakes" to which you said that's exactly why the religions were created, for flakes. So, yes you did.

[Kizzy]

I responded to a comment you made about "total flakes" to which you said that's exactly why the religions were created, for flakes. So, yes you did.



This is what I stated 'allowing many to be total flakes in the vain hope that the cloak of religion is enough to cover any and all flaws.

I said many not all. I also said people like that didn't I?

I believe religions are institutions of power and greed like many organisations and run like a business.
I also think they are a cover for those who don't have the godliest of intentions too...Not all you understand, just to clarify.

[Marsh.]

This is what I stated 'allowing many to be total flakes in the vain hope that the cloak of religion is enough to cover any and all flaws.

I said many not all. I also said people like that didn't I?

I believe religions are institutions of power and greed like many organisations and run like a business.
I also think they are a cover for those who don't have the godliest of intentions too...Not all you understand, just to clarify.

No, you insinuated that religions were specifically CREATED for those flaky followers. Not that all of their followers were flaky.

I questioned that to clarify and you then responded with "Bingo!".

You still haven't answered my follow up question of why religions want these flaky people and not the devout ones?

[Marsh.]

"Yeah, let's create a religion with strict moral codes and some even with clothing and food restrictions just so people can not follow them."

Bingo, yes that's exactly what I think, and many do follow them, millions and millions.

.

This is what I am referring to.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The main reason they are invisible is because they don't exist

[Marsh.]

The main reason they are invisible is because they don't exist

Yeah, kind of like oxygen. :hee:

[user104658]

I believe religions are institutions of power and greed.


This, in a nutshell.

I don't pretend to understand the mysteries of the universe and I don't completely reject the idea of some sort of intelligent creative force.

I do completely reject the idea of God (capital G), Allah, Jesus, Zeus, Vishnu, etc.

Organised religion is a power scam that feeds on people's insecurities and fears. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything written in a "holy book" of any description is deliberate bull**** or, at the ABSOLUTE best, human guesswork.

The arrogance and blinkeredness necessary to follow any organised religion is mind-boggling to me. You not only have to insist that YOUR super-special religion is the right one denouncing all others (there are hundreds, probs thousands of minor ones) but you also have to shut yourself off to an entire Universe of infinite unknown possibility. WHY anyone would want to do that is beyond me.

[Marsh.]

The arrogance and blinkeredness necessary to follow any organised religion is mind-boggling to me. You not only have to insist that YOUR super-special religion is the right one denouncing all others (there are hundreds, probs thousands of minor ones)

Not really.
I'd say the majority of religious people are anything but arrogant and a hell of a lot of them respect other religions and just find it simply different people/cultures interpreting and worshipping the same force/being.

Much like how we're all humans who communicate with each other. In a multitude of different kinds of spoken/written/acted languages but still all essentially the same.

[Kizzy]

No, you insinuated that religions were specifically CREATED for those flaky followers. Not that all of their followers were flaky.

I questioned that to clarify and you then responded with "Bingo!".


You still haven't answered my follow up question of why religions want these flaky people and not the devout ones?

'Yeah, let's create a religion with strict moral codes and some even with clothing and food restrictions' This is what I said bingo to, it's pretty much what I was thinking.

Again ..I said many not all. I also said people like that didn't I? Not all obviously but I think it is exploitative imo.
Generationally then you have a devotion to the religion but not god, the need to be recognised as one of many guises supersedes the main objective.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, kind of like oxygen. :hee:

Well you breathe something else and see how you go

:hee:

[Dollface]

The main reason they are invisible is because they don't exist

Wow LT you've got it sussed! :rolleyes: Soo... What's the point of this thread then? Just another excuse to bash religion?

[Marsh.]

'Yeah, let's create a religion with strict moral codes and some even with clothing and food restrictions' This is what I said bingo to, it's pretty much what I was thinking.

Again ..I said many not all. I also said people like that didn't I? Not all obviously but I think it is exploitative imo.
Generationally then you have a devotion to the religion but not god, the need to be recognised as one of many guises supersedes the main objective.

No. You've not answered why these religions are designed for the flaky ones?

Why they purposely create rules simply for them to be broken by the flaky people.

[Marsh.]

Well you breathe something else and see how you go

:hee:

Laughing gas is amazing.

[Dollface]

Not really.
I'd say the majority of religious people are anything but arrogant and a hell of a lot of them respect other religions and just find it simply different people/cultures interpreting and worshipping the same force/being.

Much like how we're all humans who communicate with each other. In a multitude of different kinds of spoken/written/acted languages but still all essentially the same.

:clap1:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

This, in a nutshell.

I don't pretend to understand the mysteries of the universe and I don't completely reject the idea of some sort of intelligent creative force.

I do completely reject the idea of God (capital G), Allah, Jesus, Zeus, Vishnu, etc.

Organised religion is a power scam that feeds on people's insecurities and fears. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything written in a "holy book" of any description is deliberate bull**** or, at the ABSOLUTE best, human guesswork.

The arrogance and blinkeredness necessary to follow any organised religion is mind-boggling to me. You not only have to insist that YOUR super-special religion is the right one denouncing all others (there are hundreds, probs thousands of minor ones) but you also have to shut yourself off to an entire Universe of infinite unknown possibility. WHY anyone would want to do that is beyond me.
Nah true arrogance is the people that believe that someone's decision to live in faith has anything to do with them rather than the person choosing to go on a journey for themselves. Yes Christians have their opinions but so does everyone else. You either agree or you don't.

Shut ourselves off to an universe of infinite unknown possibilities like what? Aliens? Creating robots that have their own minds? What possibilities are you referring to?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Wow LT you've got it sussed! Soo... What's the point of this thread then? :think:

Am i to not have an opinion?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one has said why gods are invisible yet?

[Marsh.]

No one has said why gods are invisible yet?

Yeah, there's many questions in the universe that nobody on earth can yet answer, so how is that proof of anything? :unsure:

[Kizzy]

No. You've not answered why these religions are designed for the flaky ones?

Why they purposely create rules simply for them to be broken by the flaky people.

They are organisations of social control, they have set rules some people like rules, they have leaders some like to be lead and they have community ( as long as you remain within the remit of the religion on the surface you're fine) many also like this.

Those rules are then bent, stretched, re written,re imagined or simply broken at will. As long as it's either seen to be acceptable by established church leaders or other recognised religion advocating organisation (government) that's fine.
Or you keep it to yourself.

[user104658]

Not really.
I'd say the majority of religious people are anything but arrogant and a hell of a lot of them respect other religions and just find it simply different people/cultures interpreting and worshipping the same force/being.

Much like how we're all humans who communicate with each other. In a multitude of different kinds of spoken/written/acted languages but still all essentially the same.

What you're saying is that religious people accept that there is an unknown / unknowable "greater force" in a very general sense and that the rest of each holy book is simply made-up human fluff.

Made up by people.

Feeding on people's inherent spirituality, as a method of power and control.

Either that or they think that all of the others are worhipping the same force but "in the wrong way, and theirs is actually the correct way". Otherwise, why subscribe to one?

If people really do accept that all are worhipping the same being, why not simply accept that it isn't one dumbed-down, defined deity described by any organised religion? But, as I said, some unknown, unknowable creative force in a universe of infinite possibility.

[user104658]

Shut ourselves off to an universe of infinite unknown possibilities like what? Aliens? Creating robots that have their own minds? What possibilities are you referring to?

This is a pretty good illustration of why people are religious, I think.

[LukeB]

He doesn't exist that's why

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, there's many questions in the universe that nobody on earth can yet answer, so how is that proof of anything? :unsure:

Like?

[Dollface]

Am i to not have an opinion?

Of course, why do you think otherwise? Lol..

You make a thread asking a question (which tbh is a question no-one but the gods (which you don't believe in) can answer) and then you answer the question yourself by claiming it's because they don't exist. I just don't get what you want out of this thread, i've seen enough of your posts to see that you clearly don't actually plan on listening to the opinions of those that have a different view on religion/god(s) to you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

He doesn't exist that's why

Sometimes it's the simple answer that is the best

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

No one has said why gods are invisible yet?

Because they are not of this planet. God lives in heaven and you will see them when you die. Our time here is just for passing true life begins when you die.

Satan, you see him daily haha. He also has a spirit. Whenever someone says somethings that affects you negatively, that's the devil using what you hate to make you angrier.

[Dollface]

He doesn't exist that's why

welp

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because they are not of this planet. They live in heaven and you will see them when you die. Our time here is just for passing true life begins when you die.

They?

:laugh2:

[Marsh.]

Like?

Come and use your superior knowledge (or bring the person you've found with it) who knows everything there is to know about the human brain and can cure my brother's disability? :hee:

There are many complex questions and mysteries we don't yet know that we may one day know either way.

Anything being unanswerable doesn't prove anything but your own closed mind.

People used to die from simple diseases, people didn't just accept that as the way of things and look now, almost anything can be cured.

[Marsh.]

They?

:laugh2:

What do you want her to say "he"?

Sexist tbh. :idc:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

They?

:laugh2:

God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the whole squad.

[Marsh.]

This is a pretty good illustration of why people are religious, I think.

People are religious because of aliens and intelligent robots? :omgno:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

People are religious because of aliens and intelligent robots? :omgno:

Yeah I don't know what he meant either.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Come and use your superior knowledge (or bring the person you've found with it) who knows everything there is to know about the human brain and can cure my brother's disability? :hee:

There are many complex questions and mysteries we don't yet know that we may one day know either way.

Anything being unanswerable doesn't prove anything but your own closed mind.

People used to die from simple diseases, people didn't just accept that as the way of things and look now, almost anything can be cured.

Yes but we use knowledge, evidence, peer review, research and trial and error to answer them

Religion does not

It says

All answers have been reached here I this badly laid out book

It's not realistic

[Crimson Dynamo]

God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the whole squad.

You said Jesus was not a God,?

[Marsh.]

Yes but we use knowledge, evidence, peer review, research and trial and error to answer them

Religion does not

It says

All answers have been reached here I this badly laid out book

It's not realistic

No, it doesn't. :umm2:

Not least because "religion" isn't one entity or one belief system.

Holograms and computer systems weren't realistic hundreds of years ago and yet look where we are now.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

You said Jesus was not a God,?

You're just being annoying now. :rolleyes: In the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

[Rob!]

Me being invisible would certainly explain my success with the gay bars and tinder.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, it doesn't. :umm2:

Not least because "religion" isn't one entity or one belief system.

Holograms and computer systems weren't realistic hundreds of years ago and yet look where we are now.

Have you read the last sentence in the Bible?

[Marsh.]

You said Jesus was not a God,?

And with that comment you really haven't researched the Holy Trinity correctly and are being pedantic now. :nono:

Naughty, I had you down as a better debater than that. :fist:

[Marsh.]

Me being invisible would certainly explain my success with the gay bars and tinder.

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're just being annoying now. :rolleyes: In the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

So you are saying g there are 3 gods now?

[Marsh.]

Have you read the last sentence in the Bible?

Silly me, I didn't realise there was a "bible" for "religion".

[Dollface]

Silly me, I didn't realise there was a "bible" for "religion".

:laugh2:

[Dollface]

So you are saying g there are 3 gods now?

Well, there are loads of gods, considering there are loads of religions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Silly me, I didn't realise there was a "bible" for "religion".

They all have a book that cannot be added to or changed

[Marsh.]

They all have a book that cannot be added to or changed

Such as?

You're making all the statements and asking all the questions but not really expanding on any of your points at all. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well, there are loads of gods, considering there are loads of religions.

And the fact they all claim their God is the onlytrue one

What does that suggest to you?

[Rob!]

They all have a book that cannot be added to or changed

Erm then explain why one of them is called the New Testiment? :smug:

[user104658]

Yeah I don't know what he meant either.

You sure don't.

[Marsh.]

And the fact they all claim their God is the onlytrue one

What does that suggest to you?

Yes, I forgot about that passage in the New testament and I quote "Down with Muslims and that Allah bloke!"

[Crimson Dynamo]

Erm then explain why one of them is called the New Testiment? :smug:

I think you are rather over estimate g the use of new there

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

You sure don't.

The arrogance is you trying to tell me about myself, suggesting that I seeked faith because of robots and aliens. Lol

[Northern Monkey]

What i want to know(from religious people) is why are these big three very modern monotheistic religions the true ones?
What about the many polytheistic religions which died out long before them?
If those ancient religions are not believed anymore because they died with the civilisations which created them then who's to say the modern religions which are followed today won't just die out(i'm pretty sure they will) and newer religions possibly take over?
Maybe even polytheistic ones again.They can't all be right.Are there many gods or just one?
I believe that the new religions we have today are just as relevant as the ancient ones which are no longer followed.If they were not the real ones then it is much more plausable to believe that non of them are real.They are all equal in my eyes.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

LT opened this thread because he's searching for a deeper meaning to life. I personally told you I'm on a journey too if you want deeper answers speak to a pastor that has 30 years plus experience.:blush:

[Crimson Dynamo]

LT opened this thread because he's searching for a deeper meaning to life. I personally told you I'm on a journey too if you want deeper answers speak to a pastor that has 30 years plus experience.:blush:

I would rather hear from people who are not paid a salary to lie...

[Dollface]

And the fact they all claim their God is the onlytrue one

What does that suggest to you?

If you look at each separate religion, they all have their similarities in what they believe - such as a god/goddess that created the world.
So it suggests to me that religions basically believe the same things and therefore the fact they "all claim their god is the only true one" (which i must ask, is that even true LT? as far as i'm aware, religious books claim that their god is the only god that should be worshiped) is down to different cultures having different versions and slightly different rules to follow.

[Marsh.]

What i want to know(from religious people) is why are these big three very modern monotheistic religions the true ones?

Maybe first tell us who told you that they (all the religious people) stated three religions as the "true" ones?

Maybe most of these religions are the same ideas but evolved.

We don't poo in the garden anymore as plumbing evolved too. Or as the early instances of plumbing were so unhygienic should we toss the whole system out and declare it doesn't work?

If they were not the real ones then it is much more plausable to believe that non of them are real.

If science took this approach we'd all be dying from things like a scratch on a finger.

[Marsh.]

I would rather hear from people who are not paid a salary to lie...

Go take a philosophy class.

[Kizzy]

If you look at each separate religion, they all have their similarities in what they believe - such as a god/goddess that created the world.
So it suggests to me that religions basically believe the same things and therefore the fact they "all claim their god is the only true one" (which i must ask, is that even true LT? as far as i'm aware, religious books claim that their god is the only god that should be worshiped) is down to different cultures having different versions and slightly different rules to follow.

Awomen to that! :)

[Kizzy]

Go take a philosophy class.

Theosophy?

[Marsh.]

Theosophy?

Not for me, thanks.

[Northern Monkey]

Take Hinduism for example.A modern polytheistic religion.If the religious people who are more open minded and tolerant of other religions believe that all religions are a path to the same god then what do they say about Hinduism a religion of many gods.There lies a contradiction.There can't be only one god but also many.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Go take a philosophy class.

I did at uni

[Marsh.]

Take Hinduism for example.A modern polytheistic religion.If the religious people who are more open minded and tolerant of other religions believe that all religions are a path to the same god then what do they say about Hinduism a religion of many gods.There lies a contradiction.There can't be only one god but also many.

I come stuck at "the religious people who are tolerant of other religions", this is such a broad spectrum who exactly do you want to answer it?:laugh:

[Marsh.]

I did at uni

Money well spent. :fan:

[Rob!]

Religion and faith are two completely different things though.

Religion itself is responsible for pretty much all the hate and mass death going on in the world at the moment.

Faith never hurt anybody - the feeling of faith to a God doesn't need to be a physical entity in front of you. It just needs to be something that brings you personal comfort and reassurance.

[Dollface]

Take Hinduism for example.A modern polytheistic religion.If the religious people who are more open minded and tolerant of other religions believe that all religions are a path to the same god then what do they say about Hinduism a religion of many gods.There lies a contradiction.There can't be only one god but also many.

Actually, whilst there are many deities in Hinduism, Hindu's believe that there is one supreme god (Brahman)

RE was my favourite subject at school lol

[Marsh.]

Religion isn't.

Extremist murderers using religions as excuses causes the hate and mass death.

[Alf]

Our time here is just for passing true life begins when you die.
Sounds like an advertisement for suicide.

[Northern Monkey]

I come stuck at "the religious people who are tolerant of other religions", this is such a broad spectrum who exactly do you want to answer it?:laugh:

Well as said earlier in the thread.There are those religious people who dismiss all religion except their own and there are those who are open to different religions and believe they are just a different path to the same god.So to the people who believe the latter.How do they explain a religion of many gods like Hinduism?
There cannot be only one god but also many gods?

[Rob!]

Religion isn't.

Extremist murderers using religions as excuses causes the hate and mass death.

The excuse is still there as religion though. It has become cultish rather than merely a name for a collective group of people who share the same faith.

I'm not a belieber myself but I can appreciate and respect other's views. But people who believe that people need to die because they don't fit into their own religious ideology, such as gay people, other faiths etc is where the difference lies - in my opinion.

[Rob!]

The excuse is still there as religion though. It has become cultish rather than merely a name for a collective group of people who share the same faith.

I'm not a belieber myself but I can appreciate and respect other's views. But people who believe that people need to die because they don't fit into their own religious ideology, such as gay people, other faiths etc is where the difference lies - in my opinion.

erm - what is this autocorrect? Is Justin Beiber in with apple or something?

[Northern Monkey]

Don't get me wrong.Just because i don't believe a religion.I am not anti religion.I actually find it very interesting and a good look at how people thought in ancient times.

[Marsh.]

Well as said earlier in the thread.There are those religious people who dismiss all religion except their own and there are those who are open to different religions and believe they are just a different path to the same god.So to the people who believe the latter.How do they explain a religion of many gods like Hinduism?
There cannot be only one god but also many gods?

But who said all of these people open to other religions believe in one or many Gods?

There is no one answer is there? :laugh:

[Marsh.]

The excuse is still there as religion though. It has become cultish rather than merely a name for a collective group of people who share the same faith.

Yes, but the people killing in the name of religion are still a very small minority when it comes to these religions as a whole. The actions of these extremists are also commonly going against the religion they claim to be fighting for.

belieber

Reported.

such as gay people

LET ME LIVE!!!!

It was 2009!!!! :bawling:

[Northern Monkey]

But who said all of these people open to other religions believe in one or many Gods?

There is no one answer is there? :laugh:

Well by definition if you are Christian you believe in one god and his incarnations Jesus and the holy ghost but ultimately one god.Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

[Dollface]

Actually, whilst there are many deities in Hinduism, Hindu's believe that there is one supreme god (Brahman)


.

[Marsh.]

Well by definition if you are Christian you believe in one god and his incarnations Jesus and the holy ghost but ultimately one god.Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

Well you've just described a good example.

If Christians can believe in a holy trinity concept then it's not a world away from the Hindus and their belief system of a few beings coming from one "God". Separate elements but all essentially one.

But, again, this is going back to interpretation and culture. The idea of a "God" being a one person thing is kind of simplistic. The name itself means something different to everyone.

One religion can respect another cultures interpretation of the same thing.

[Rob!]

Yes, but the people killing in the name of religion are still a very small minority when it comes to these religions as a whole. The actions of these extremists are also commonly going against the religion they claim to be fighting for.



Reported.



LET ME LIVE!!!!

It was 2009!!!! :bawling:

:joker::joker::joker:

And yeah, believe me I know. I learnt about splinter groups on that Doctor Who episode :flutter:

[Dollface]

Well you've just described a good example.

If Christians can believe in a holy trinity concept then it's not a world away from the Hindus and their belief system of a few beings coming from one "God". Separate elements but all essentially one.

But, again, this is going back to interpretation and culture. The idea of a "God" being a one person thing is kind of simplistic. The name itself means something different to everyone.

just :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Glenn.]

8 pages of this?

oh my invisible god

[Marsh.]

8 pages of this?

oh my invisible god

Don't you have some feet to wash. :idc:

[Marsh.]

Jesus washed feet, keeping with the thread topic. :smug:

[Rob!]

Don't you have some feet to wash. :idc:

Isn't that a Christian thing too

[Rob!]

Omg :flutter:

[Glenn.]

Don't you have some feet to wash. :idc:

Well I do them when I have a shower so they are clean and almond milk flavour shower gel smelling.

[Marsh.]

Omg :flutter:

Twins.

[Northern Monkey]

So what about the really old religions which came a long time before even Judaism?They died out with their respective cultures.Many of them believed in many gods with different abilities and duties.If they were not the true religions and don't exist because nobody believes them anymore then why are todays religions any different?
If a religion or concept such as polytheism can die out with its culture then it is not the true one is it?Again there cannot be only one god or many different ones.Religion only exists because people believe it.Proving that it is infact a man made concept.If it was'nt then it could'nt die out and would be eternal through all of time.Looking to the past helps to form the most plausable explanation.Religions can fade out with there believers.Therefore the believers are the ones who create god/s not the other way around.

[Marsh.]

So what about the really old religions which came a long time before even Judaism?They died out with their respective cultures.Many of them believed in many gods with different abilities and duties.If they were not the true religions and don't exist because nobody believes them anymore then why are todays religions any different?
If a religion or concept such as polytheism can die out with its culture then it is not the true one is it?Again there cannot be only one god or many different ones.Religion only exists because people believe it.Proving that it is infact a man made concept.If it was'nt then it could'nt die out and would be eternal through all of time.Looking to the past helps to form the most plausable explanation.Religions can fade out with there believers.Therefore the believers are the ones who create god/s not the other way around.

Just because "belief" in those ancient religions died out doesn't mean any of them were totally wrong though, does it?

We're all fallible humans who don't actually know anything for certain, we just have our beliefs and our faith which is different for everyone.

Your definition of the word "proof" is interesting. Nothing's been proven.

[user104658]

The arrogance is you trying to tell me about myself, suggesting that I seeked faith because of robots and aliens. Lol
Quote me mentioning robots or aliens. Please.

[Northern Monkey]

Just because "belief" in those ancient religions died out doesn't mean any of them were totally wrong though, does it?

We're all fallible humans who don't actually know anything for certain, we just have our beliefs and our faith which is different for everyone.

Your definition of the word "proof" is interesting. Nothing's been proven.

It is proof because it has happened.Religions died with the people who followed them.That is irrefutable.They were created by people and died with those people.Man made.If they were not man made then they would not die out with their believers.A religion can only exist while there are people to believe it.

[Marsh.]

It is proof because it has happened.Religions died with the people who followed them.That is irrefutable.They were created by people and died with those people.Man made.If they were not man made then they would not die out with their believers.A religion can only exist while there are people to believe it.

How is it irrefutable?

It's not in the slightest.

Not much "died out" as much as evolved anyway. The religions today are some form of those early religions.

It's not a case of people stopping believing because they were incorrect and starting a new one.

[Dollface]

It is proof because it has happened.Religions died with the people who followed them.That is irrefutable.They were created by people and died with those people.Man made.If they were not man made then they would not die out with their believers.A religion can only exist while there are people to believe it.

But just because somebody doesn't believe something, doesn't make it non-true?

[Northern Monkey]

But just because somebody doesn't believe something, doesn't make it non-true?

In that case maybe Christianity is not true and the ancient Egyptian religion is.The concept of which totally contradicts Christianity.Many gods vs one god.

[Marsh.]

In that case maybe Christianity is not true and the ancient Egyptian religion is.The concept of which totally contradicts Christianity.Many gods vs one god.

Eh?

That's called different people believing different things.

I think you've confused yourself.

Me believing A and you believing B isn't proof of either one of us being wrong. But this is oversimplifying a very complex topic.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Quote me mentioning robots or aliens. Please.

Religious people are nothing more than people afraid of Aliens and Human-like robots. I'm much more inclined to believe in crocodile Dundee.

:nono:

[Dollface]

In that case maybe Christianity is not true and the ancient Egyptian religion is.The concept of which totally contradicts Christianity.Many gods vs one god.

i'll just quote marsh, he said it better than me lmao
Eh?

That's called different people believing different things.

I think you've confused yourself.

Me believing A and you believing B isn't proof of either one of us being wrong. But this is oversimplifying a very complex topic.

[Ammi]

..surely the question answers itself really...because if something was visible, if people who had faith and belief in something could 'see', then no faith would be required would it..I can't see love but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see hate but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see worry/stress/sadness etc but I believe because I feel/we all feel and we all have faith in something in our lives...and things that aren't 'visible'...because that is the whole point and definition of faith isn't it...and with a God, if that's where some people's faith lies..?..well it's one of those things really, that a big part of that surely is that they will never 'meet' in life in terms of actually seeing their God, because that meeting for them won't come until death..but they have faith in life and although they don't 'see', they feel, they feel their God in life...but it's no different really when you think about it for many people who only believe in 'proven'...scientists can spend their whole entire lives having faith in something, in it's existence etc and the trying to prove it and can go into death never having done so/so for them it's been a belief and a faith really...this scientist 'proved' this/this scientist proved that...this is the date/this is the time when it was proven and then it became 'fact'..but how many scientists before in their lifetime's works/studies/research etc were never able to, so all they had was their total faith and their belief to be true...(and also many things still to be proven in an absolute way..)..

...anyways, just like everything else, there is interpretation and the 'slanting' of religion to try to excuse and to try justify in cases of intolerances/prejudices etc and the extremes of terrorist act...but there are also many people of religion that interpret positively as well and feel that their religion helps them to be more tolerant/less prejudice etc...and that's because people are people/always have been and always will be and good/bad/positive/negative/extremes of and all the in-betweens of...

[Ammi]

..as for the greed/exploitation etc side of religion, well yes obviously because there will always be that as well where there is human ...but as has been said before in these discussions, there are many who have absolutely nothing at all 'to give' and their lives can have lost all faith or positivity in anything but some small positivity can be achieved by the in finding a faith/a small positivity that could grow and personally help them so much...much the same really I suppose as with a self-help type book, of which there are many..for some those self-help books will become a 'bible'/type thing in their lives and for others, just not apply at all and be complete rubbish/and 'made up nonsense' written to 'make rich' the author and to 'exploit' low times/lost times etc in people's lives...it's all what people take from those books really and how they apply what is taken...

[AnnieK]

..surely the question answers itself really...because if something was visible, if people who had faith and belief in something could 'see', then no faith would be required would it..I can't see love but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see hate but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see worry/stress/sadness etc but I believe because I feel/we all feel and we all have faith in something in our lives...and things that aren't 'visible'...because that is the whole point and definition of faith isn't it...and with a God, if that's where some people's faith lies..?..well it's one of those things really, that a big part of that surely is that they will never 'meet' in life in terms of actually seeing their God, because that meeting for them won't come until death..but they have faith in life and although they don't 'see', they feel, they feel their God in life...but it's no different really when you think about it for many people who only believe in 'proven'...scientists can spend their whole entire lives having faith in something, in it's existence etc and the trying to prove it and can go into death never having done so/so for them it's been a belief and a faith really...this scientist 'proved' this/this scientist proved that...this is the date/this is the time when it was proven and then it became 'fact'..but how many scientists before in their lifetime's works/studies/research etc were never able to, so all they had was their total faith and their belief to be true...(and also many things still to be proven in an absolute way..)..

...anyways, just like everything else, there is interpretation and the 'slanting' of religion to try to excuse and to try justify in cases of intolerances/prejudices etc and the extremes of terrorist act...but there are also many people of religion that interpret positively as well and feel that their religion helps them to be more tolerant/less prejudice etc...and that's because people are people/always have been and always will be and good/bad/positive/negative/extremes of and all the in-betweens of...

Beautifully put Ammi......that's what I was trying to say in the first pages but you have put it perfectly :love:

[Crimson Dynamo]

..surely the question answers itself really...because if something was visible, if people who had faith and belief in something could 'see', then no faith would be required would it..I can't see love but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see hate but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see worry/stress/sadness etc but I believe because I feel/we all feel and we all have faith in something in our lives...and things that aren't 'visible'...because that is the whole point and definition of faith isn't it...and with a God, if that's where some people's faith lies..?..well it's one of those things really, that a big part of that surely is that they will never 'meet' in life in terms of actually seeing their God, because that meeting for them won't come until death..but they have faith in life and although they don't 'see', they feel, they feel their God in life...but it's no different really when you think about it for many people who only believe in 'proven'...scientists can spend their whole entire lives having faith in something, in it's existence etc and the trying to prove it and can go into death never having done so/so for them it's been a belief and a faith really...this scientist 'proved' this/this scientist proved that...this is the date/this is the time when it was proven and then it became 'fact'..but how many scientists before in their lifetime's works/studies/research etc were never able to, so all they had was their total faith and their belief to be true...(and also many things still to be proven in an absolute way..)..

...anyways, just like everything else, there is interpretation and the 'slanting' of religion to try to excuse and to try justify in cases of intolerances/prejudices etc and the extremes of terrorist act...but there are also many people of religion that interpret positively as well and feel that their religion helps them to be more tolerant/less prejudice etc...and that's because people are people/always have been and always will be and good/bad/positive/negative/extremes of and all the in-betweens of...

hate love anger are just our words to describe human emotions. They are not the same as a god who can supposedly make galaxies, part seas and burn bushes

I can see an angry person or a sad persons as that person is there in front of me. Descriptions of feelings are just that but they relate to a flesh and blood human and not an invisible deity

[Josy]

God isn't an object, he is love, therefore it's up to an individual person whether they want/allow god to exist in their lives or not.

[kirklancaster]

This thread starts with a false premise in that God is NOT invisible.

There is a difference in being 'invisible' and being 'unseen'.

YOU, my dear 'winder upper' L.T. exist, I exist, Toy Soldier exists, as do all the members of Tibb, but we are 'invisible' and communicate via this forum, only ELECTING to become 'visible' when we choose to, by sending our photos to each other, skyping each other, or even meeting in person.

God 'communicated' via his Angels to many people in the Old Testament, and to his Prophets and many others, by a form of what we now term 'telepathy' which they - in their limited knowledge termed 'dreams' or 'visions'.

Yet God DID physically appear on numerous occasions to others in the Old Testament:
Adam and Eve
Cain and Abel
Noah and his wife and sons.
Abraham
Sarah
Hagar
Ishmael
Rebekah
Joseph
Jacob
Solomon
Job
Isaiah
Micaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
Nebuchadnezza
Shadrach, Meshach,Abed-Nego
Belshazzar and company of ,1000 lords at feast
Daniel
Amos
Jonah
Habakkuk
Zechariah
Elijah
Elisha
David

And let's not forget the most famous example of man meeting a visible God; Moses, who came back down Sinai after receiving the Commandments, and was transfigured and his skin 'glowing' and 'shining':

Exodus 34:29

"29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the Lord. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him.

31 But Moses called to them; so Aaron and all the leaders of the community came back to him, and he spoke to them.

32 Afterward all the Israelites came near him, and he gave them all the commands the Lord had given him on Mount Sinai".

And this is NOT the only time those who 'met' God were transfigured and became 'Shining Ones'.

In the New Testament, GOD appears before EVERYONE, from the Israelites to the Romans and others, in the form of Jesus of Nazareth - The Christ or Messiah.

YOU are looking and approching this subject through very ordinary HUMAN eyes, and within the very strict and narrow parameters of knowledge which even the most intellectual and learned of humans are unfortunately shackled by.

WHY - if God exists (and I KNOW that he does) - should we humans dare to know HIS mind, or understand HIS works?

The most intellectal, scientific or creative of us, fail miserably when attempting to understand a concept so unimaginable and unfathomable as God, and we close our feeble minds altogether, or hide behind Darwin's increasingly discredited and flawed 'Origin of Species' or the error-riddled sweeping presumptions of Dawkins, or we fall in 'lock, stock, and barrel' with the 'God was an Alien' types of theories, because Aliens (which I also firmly believe in the existence of) are more 'technological' and therefore dovetail more neatly into our 'scientific' mindsets.

The text of the Bible and other scriptures may at times appear self-contradictory or to paint God as a murderous, wrathful, and positively evil deity, but this is a HUGE error being repeatedly made on here by 'Religion bashers' and 'Atheists', because they are confusing the WORD of God with the word of God as corrupted and altered over thousands of years by countless corrupt MEN for their own very HUMAN ends.

In Walter Millers great post-nuclear dystopian Science Fiction masterpiece "A Canticle for Leibowitz", the monk Liebowitz finds a tattered fragment of an ordinary pre-apocolypse shopping list - including 'pastrami' - and this is subsequently hailed as a 'sacred relic'.

A mistake in perception and translation - yes.

But proof that whoever wrote that list EXISTED and that it had an original purpose.

Do not deny God's message because we are not yet equipped to understand it.

And don't blame God for Man's doing.

[Ammi]

hate love anger are just our words to describe human emotions. They are not the same as a god who can supposedly make galaxies, part seas and burn bushes

I can see an angry person or a sad persons as that person is there in front of me. Descriptions of feelings are just that but they relate to a flesh and blood human and not an invisible deity

..you can take the literal meanings if you want to/not you personally be people with faith can...because again, interpretations which can interpret the negatives only of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth/type thing/and extreme must slay all of the 'sinners' or 'non believers'...or that the son of God actually did those things/parted the Red Sea..or that in having faith in something/believing that you can do something 'an impossible' can help people in their lives in many ways..it really is all down to interpretation and that will always be different...not because of faith/religion but because people/humans...

[kirklancaster]

God isn't an object, he is love, therefore it's up to an individual person whether they want/allow god to exist in their lives or not.

You've got the point over in a sentence which says it all really.

[kirklancaster]

..you can take the literal meanings if you want to/not you personally be people with faith can...because again, interpretations which can interpret the negatives only of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth/type thing/and extreme must slay all of the 'sinners' or 'non believers'...or that the son of God actually did those things/parted the Red Sea..or that in having faith in something/believing that you can do something 'an impossible' can help people in their lives in many ways..it really is all down to interpretation and that will always be different...not because of faith/religion but because people/humans...

THIS and your other posts = :worship:

[Crimson Dynamo]

God isn't an object, he is love, therefore it's up to an individual person whether they want/allow god to exist in their lives or not.

I presume you are referring to the Christian God, if so then I am afraid that is not what the bible says.


In fact that particular god hated on quite a lot of things and indeed people and nations


and love is a very fickle and ambiguous human emotion -hence the very high divorce rate

[Crimson Dynamo]

..you can take the literal meanings if you want to/not you personally be people with faith can...because again, interpretations which can interpret the negatives only of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth/type thing/and extreme must slay all of the 'sinners' or 'non believers'...or that the son of God actually did those things/parted the Red Sea..or that in having faith in something/believing that you can do something 'an impossible' can help people in their lives in many ways..it really is all down to interpretation and that will always be different...not because of faith/religion but because people/humans...

its down interpretation because it is fictitious, just like we can analyse shakespeare and come up with many interpretations

the reason gods are invisible is because they do not exist, like Loch Ness monster, the yeti, leprechauns and the like

[Kazanne]

faith is just believing in stuff with no evidence

I dont find that admirable, in many respects its rather foolish

Maybe Christians have enough evidence,by the amazing things around us,that we as humans still manage to annihilate.

[Kazanne]

its down interpretation because it is fictitious, just like we can analyse shakespeare and come up with many interpretations

the reason gods are invisible is because they do not exist, like Loch Ness monster, the yeti, leprechauns and the like

Does the air around us not exist then LT or even space itself ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe Christians have enough evidence,by the amazing things around us,that we as humans still manage to annihilate.

if you are referring to scenery, mountains etc we fully understand how they came about and indeed why they are here, there is no need to think some invisible god swished a magic wand and made them

[user104658]

Almost every justification for a defined or organised religion (in this thread and elsewhere) ends up boiling down to the same basic thing:

An attempt to explain the unexplained and the unexplainable in simplistic, humanised ways using human faces and human emotions.

Actually, these days it's often things that can be explained, but only in concepts that are not easily digested by most people.

That's not even arrogance - I'm not saying that I fully understand or can easily digest high level physics like quantum mechanics or the intricacies of space-time - but I do know that others do have a much higher level of understanding of these things and I'm content with that. I don't feel the need to bulge my eyes at these mysteries and say "OMG shrug guess it must be God."

[Crimson Dynamo]

Almost every justification for a defined or organised religion (in this thread and elsewhere) ends up boiling down to the same basic thing:

An attempt to explain the unexplained and the unexplainable in simplistic, humanised ways using human faces and human emotions.

Actually, these days it's often things that can be explained, but only in concepts that are not easily digested by most people.

That's not even arrogance - I'm not saying that I fully understand or can easily digest high level physics like quantum mechanics or the intricacies of space-time - but I do know that others do have a much higher level of understanding of these things and I'm content with that. I don't feel the need to bulge my eyes at these mysteries and say "OMG shrug guess it must be God."

what is baffling s that for any of the "believers" claims to be true we would need to throw away every piece of scientific evidence that humanity has gathered and claim it false!

:shocked:

[user104658]

what is baffling s that for any of the "believers" claims to be true we would need to throw away every piece of scientific evidence that humanity has gathered and claim it false!

:shocked:
There are usually caveats and excuses for either twisting the science to fit the book, the book to fit the science, or just somehow finding a tiny flaw and using it to reject entire concepts.

I sometimes find the sheer level of determined denial involved in devout religious belief quite staggering. Scary, even. I'm not joking. The psychological defences that people have around their various faiths. Again explainable though really - as many have used Gods and Religions to deal with difficult or otherwise traumatic experiences, or to form their entire concept of morality, and so questioning or "losing faith" once it's established becomes an absolutely gigantic can of worms. Opening old wounds that were patched over with faith, or setting people adrift without a replacement sense of self or direction.

[Livia]

what is baffling s that for any of the "believers" claims to be true we would need to throw away every piece of scientific evidence that humanity has gathered and claim it false!

:shocked:

There are plenty of religious scientists who would disagree with what you say and I'd wager that they know more about the relationship between science and God than either of us. You don't believe and have no faith. I find that difficult to understand just like you find faith in God difficult to understand. Doesn't make either of us right, of course. It just means we should perhaps respect each other's right to freedom of religion... or lack of it.

[user104658]

There are plenty of religious scientists who would disagree with what you say and I'd wager that they know more about the relationship between science and God than either of us. You don't believe and have no faith. I find that difficult to understand just like you find faith in God difficult to understand. Doesn't make either of us right, of course. It just means we should perhaps respect each other's right to freedom of religion... or lack of it.
This is a myth, there are relatively very few (well known) scientists who are religious in anything other than a vaguely spiritual sense.

Its like the fable that Einstein was a devout Christian. Which is simply false. Not sure if that's down to a misinterpretation of a few things he said, or a straight up lie peddled by Christians, but yeah... Einstein went back and forth regarding the existence of "some sort of" God or creator and he was certainly not religious.

[joeysteele]

..surely the question answers itself really...because if something was visible, if people who had faith and belief in something could 'see', then no faith would be required would it..I can't see love but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see hate but I believe in it because I feel it, I can't see worry/stress/sadness etc but I believe because I feel/we all feel and we all have faith in something in our lives...and things that aren't 'visible'...because that is the whole point and definition of faith isn't it...and with a God, if that's where some people's faith lies..?..well it's one of those things really, that a big part of that surely is that they will never 'meet' in life in terms of actually seeing their God, because that meeting for them won't come until death..but they have faith in life and although they don't 'see', they feel, they feel their God in life...but it's no different really when you think about it for many people who only believe in 'proven'...scientists can spend their whole entire lives having faith in something, in it's existence etc and the trying to prove it and can go into death never having done so/so for them it's been a belief and a faith really...this scientist 'proved' this/this scientist proved that...this is the date/this is the time when it was proven and then it became 'fact'..but how many scientists before in their lifetime's works/studies/research etc were never able to, so all they had was their total faith and their belief to be true...(and also many things still to be proven in an absolute way..)..

...anyways, just like everything else, there is interpretation and the 'slanting' of religion to try to excuse and to try justify in cases of intolerances/prejudices etc and the extremes of terrorist act...but there are also many people of religion that interpret positively as well and feel that their religion helps them to be more tolerant/less prejudice etc...and that's because people are people/always have been and always will be and good/bad/positive/negative/extremes of and all the in-betweens of...

If awards were ever given for posts on here than this one should get one for sure.

Brilliantly put,a superb read and full of thought provoking wording.
This really is one your best ever posts Ammi.

[Livia]

This is a myth, there are relatively very few (well known) scientists who are religious in anything other than a vaguely spiritual sense.

Its like the fable that Einstein was a devout Christian. Which is simply false. Not sure if that's down to a misinterpretation of a few things he said, or a straight up lie peddled by Christians, but yeah... Einstein went back and forth regarding the existence of "some sort of" God or creator and he was certainly not religious.

Einstein was a Jew.

And actually, the existence of religious scientists is not a myth at all. We have one in the family... I've mentioned him before. A physicist. Of course people on here have said he can't possibly be religious and a Jew because it doesn't fit in with their own opinions. And obviously they know more about him and his beliefs than he does.

[DemolitionRed]

I honestly don't know why it matters. I'm not religious and I don't appreciate pushy Christians trying to convince me to embrace Christ. I don't like the way pushy Christians will try and convert those who are facing tragedy or have low self-esteem. I have no problem with my own beliefs in God but I don't want to be told that my beliefs are wrong and its their way or the highway.

I also don't like to see the none religious trying to convince the religious that its all nonsense. Just as they have a right to believe its nonsense, religious people have a right to believe its real. If we try to convince them otherwise, doesn't that put us in the same category as the pushy Christians?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I honestly don't know why it matters. I'm not religious and I don't appreciate pushy Christians trying to convince me to embrace Christ. I don't like the way pushy Christians will try and convert those who are facing tragedy or have low self-esteem. I have no problem with my own beliefs in God but I don't want to be told that my beliefs are wrong and its their way or the highway.

I also don't like to see the none religious trying to convince the religious that its all nonsense. Just as they have a right to believe its nonsense, religious people have a right to believe its real. If we try to convince them otherwise, doesn't that put us in the same category as the pushy Christians?

If there was no religion in schools :umm2: and no religion in politics then no one would care if you believe in gods. If religion wasnt the root source of terrorism no one would care


Sadly all 3 things exist so it needs to be exposed as frequently as possible

[AnnieK]

I honestly don't know why it matters. I'm not religious and I don't appreciate pushy Christians trying to convince me to embrace Christ. I don't like the way pushy Christians will try and convert those who are facing tragedy or have low self-esteem. I have no problem with my own beliefs in God but I don't want to be told that my beliefs are wrong and its their way or the highway.

I also don't like to see the none religious trying to convince the religious that its all nonsense. Just as they have a right to believe its nonsense, religious people have a right to believe its real. If we try to convince them otherwise, doesn't that put us in the same category as the pushy Christians?

Completely agree. Was just coming in to saw something very similar. I have never, and will never, disclose my own faith or lack of on these boards but can see both sides of the argument and I find that the cynicism and derision by some on here to be so disrespectful to those who do believe. I have found in every one of these threads (and there has been many over the years) that the people of no belief are the ones who use negative words to discuss those with faith and not vice versa. Every person is their own person with their own belief sets, no-one should push their beliefs (whatever they may be) on anyone. Live and let live people

[Crimson Dynamo]

Einstein was a Jew.

And actually, the existence of religious scientists is not a myth at all. We have one in the family... I've mentioned him before. A physicist. Of course people on here have said he can't possibly be religious and a Jew because it doesn't fit in with their own opinions. And obviously they know more about him and his beliefs than he does.

His parents were non-observant jews and he was brought up in a catholic school


In the days of Einstein being an atheist would have closed every door available to him to study so he like many said he was agnostic

He proffered to take this view towards religion "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being"



In other words he fully understood why religion was prevalent whilst at the same time demolishing it piece by piece with logic, evidence and reason

:hee:

[arista]

https://queerreaders.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/god-delusion.jpg


This Great Book
tells the truth

[user104658]

DR in an ideal world people would keep their personal beliefs personal and it would be no one elses' concern... But largely I agree with Trumpet on this one. As long as these fairy tales are being peddled in the education system and in politics, it is everyone's concern, and perfectly valid to speak out against them.

Have religious belief removed from political rhetoric and only taught in schools in an unbiased manner as opinion and then we can talk about people being able to hold their own personal beliefs. The fact is, though, if religion wasn't pushed on children as fact, the vast majority of currently "religious people" wouldn't follow a structured religion in the first place.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I expect most people still "touch wood" when someone says something like "well at least your children are healthy" or some such thing


But I would not want my children to be taught in school that if you dont connect with mother earth in those situations the bad thing could happen. If it was being taught then I would like it exposed as bollocks and without evidence


*touches wood just in case*

[user104658]

Einstein was a Jew.

And actually, the existence of religious scientists is not a myth at all. We have one in the family... I've mentioned him before. A physicist. Of course people on here have said he can't possibly be religious and a Jew because it doesn't fit in with their own opinions. And obviously they know more about him and his beliefs than he does.
Already covered by LT but... Einstein was non-religious. He was Jewish by blood, and at times feigned a vague sort of Christianity (because it was the first half of the 20th century, he was essentially defecting to the west, and Americans at the time were even bigger bible-thumpers than they are now) but he had no religious belief and (in my opinion, quite rightly) thought that it was inconceivably arrogant of humans to believe that they had a simple answer to the mystery of creation.

Religious people likely to falsely claim that he was religious in arguments against religion by misquoting or selectively quoting him, most commonly his insistence that "God does not play dice". The lie / misconception being that he was referring to a defined, abrahamic God, when in fact he was talking about "The Universe", the unknown, the mystery. He had some spirituality, he was not religious.

Also, the argument was in defiance against the randomness of Quantum Theory, and he actually in his later days admitted that he may have been wrong in his insistence anyway. A variation of Quantum Theory is pretty much accepted scientific fact at this point. It's in everyday practical use.

[Josy]

I presume you are referring to the Christian God, if so then I am afraid that is not what the bible says.


In fact that particular god hated on quite a lot of things and indeed people and nations


and love is a very fickle and ambiguous human emotion -hence the very high divorce rate
Any god

[Crimson Dynamo]

Already covered by LT but... Einstein was non-religious. He was Jewish by blood, and at times feigned a vague sort of Christianity (because it was the first half of the 20th century, he was essentially defecting to the west, and Americans at the time were even bigger bible-thumpers than they are now) but he had no religious belief and (in my opinion, quite rightly) thought that it was inconceivably arrogant of humans to believe that they had a simple answer to the mystery of creation.

Religious people likely to falsely claim that he was religious in arguments against religion by misquoting or selectively quoting him, most commonly his insistence that "God does not play dice". The lie / misconception being that he was referring to a defined, abrahamic God, when in fact he was talking about "The Universe", the unknown, the mystery. He had some spirituality, he was not religious.

Also, the argument was in defiance against the randomness of Quantum Theory, and he actually in his later days admitted that he may have been wrong in his insistence anyway. A variation of Quantum Theory is pretty much accepted scientific fact at this point. It's in everyday practical use.

The reality is his works, if he was religious he would not have bothered to discover what he did - his works are the evidence of his atheism, if any were needed.

[Kazanne]

If there was no religion in schools :umm2: and no religion in politics then no one would care if you believe in gods. If religion wasnt the root source of terrorism no one would care


Sadly all 3 things exist so it needs to be exposed as frequently as possible

But again LT,it's not religions fault it's the way men deal with it.

[Ammi]

...well a large thing with a religious belief/faith is that people with those beliefs can never ever 'prove' in living years, that possibility just isn't there for them, it's only through death that the 'invisible' can be seen, but they have faith throughout their lives and a faith in no way different to any scientists/with no religious beliefs, who also may never prove their theories thought their lifetimes but still have an absolute belief and faith in them...

[DemolitionRed]

DR in an ideal world people would keep their personal beliefs personal and it would be no one elses' concern... But largely I agree with Trumpet on this one. As long as these fairy tales are being peddled in the education system and in politics, it is everyone's concern, and perfectly valid to speak out against them.

Have religious belief removed from political rhetoric and only taught in schools in an unbiased manner as opinion and then we can talk about people being able to hold their own personal beliefs. The fact is, though, if religion wasn't pushed on children as fact, the vast majority of currently "religious people" wouldn't follow a structured religion in the first place.

I certainly don't think religion should be used within politics. We only have to look at Christian based politics in America to see its not a good idea :hehe:

Christians and I believe Muslims, are raised to spread the faith and if that is part of their doctrine, I don't see how that could or should be stopped.

Religious education imo should not be taught as fact and certainly not through fear. In my opinion all religions, including atheism should be taught as existential philosophy. There should be no coercion towards one or tother but if a student takes up a belief during those study groups, there should be classes available to enhance and support what has now become their religion.

[user104658]

There should be classes designed to enhance their understanding through unbiased logic, reasoning, evidence and self-reflection. Unfortunately that lack of bias is impossible with religion, because literally all of the "evidence" is hand-me-down folklore.

[Crimson Dynamo]

...well a large thing with a religious belief/faith is that people with those beliefs can never ever 'prove' in living years, that possibility just isn't there for them, it's only through death that the 'invisible' can be seen, but they have faith throughout their lives and a faith in no way different to any scientists/with no religious beliefs, who also may never prove their theories thought their lifetimes but still have an absolute belief and faith in them...

there is a chasm of difference in religious faith based on some 2000 year old middle eastern cult and modern scientific thought based on the best evidence available

its not the same thing at all

[Niamh.]

What I've never understood about religion/God (mainly a religious God I guess) is why he/she/it would want people to believe in him/her/it based on faith and some ancient unreliable stories? If he/she/it created us as relatively intelligent beings why would he want people to waste the life he/she/it gave us worshiping him/her/it blindly and fighting over who is right or wrong or whatever or wasting our lives trying to prove or disprove their existence?

[DemolitionRed]

There should be classes designed to enhance their understanding through unbiased logic, reasoning, evidence and self-reflection. Unfortunately that lack of bias is impossible with religion, because literally all of the "evidence" is hand-me-down folklore.

Or historical data that we haven't properly deciphered yet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What I've never understood about religion/God (mainly a religious God I guess) is why he/she/it would want people to believe in him/her/it based on faith and some ancient unreliable stories? If he/she/it created us as relatively intelligent beings why would he want people to waste the life he/she/it gave us worshiping him/her/it blindly and fighting over who is right or wrong or whatever or wasting our lives trying to prove or disprove their existence?

dont try and use logic


Due to one fairly innocuous incident in "the garden of eden" his precious creations are forever more sinners :umm2: and thousands of years later the only way this omnipresent galaxy maker can think of to make us not sinners is to nail "his son" to a cross, smash his knees and kill him. Now if we believe that he was god we are not sinners, the rest are and will be damned forever?


Aye right :rolleyes:

[Marsh.]

I presume you are referring to the Christian God, if so then I am afraid that is not what the bible says.


In fact that particular god hated on quite a lot of things and indeed people and nations


and love is a very fickle and ambiguous human emotion -hence the very high divorce rate

Everything always comes back to bloody divorce with you. :fist:

I think Kizzy's single so go and make sweet love. :hehe:

[Niamh.]

dont try and use logic


Due to one fairly innocuous incident in "the garden of eden" his precious creations are forever more sinners :umm2: and thousands of years later the only way this omnipresent galaxy maker can think of to make us not sinners is to nail "his son" to a cross, smash his knees and kill him. Now if we believe that he was god we are not sinners, the rest are and will be damned forever?


Aye right :rolleyes:

I don't want to knock people for having beliefs or whatever, I just think maybe that it's a waste of this one life that we have to be thinking that this is like some sort of waiting room for our "real" life. Shouldn't we just try to enjoy this one as much as we can because chances are it's all we have and that's not so bad is it? I mean we aren't going to know any different afterwards

[Ammi]

there is a chasm of difference in religious faith based on some 2000 year old middle eastern cult and modern scientific thought based on the best evidence available

its not the same thing at all

..it is the same thing though/a faith in something that has yet to be proven, regardless of what it is and an 'absolute' can never be proven in religion until after the living years, so it will always remain a 'theory' and the total faith in that theory...children believe in Father Christmas, I'm sure that your children did...we know for sure as adults that Father Christmas doesn't exist even though in a child's heart and mind, he most certainly does exist..but we've learned that he doesn't through growing up and through adulthood...if sadly a child were to die in childhood/in still believing in Father Christmas ...then for that child, Father Christmas is an 'absolute', he has been proven because he hadn't been disproven....

[Marsh.]

So let's mock religious people who have a belief/faith in something unproven but LT knew Einstein personally to use him as one of his arguments? :fan:

[Ammi]

What I've never understood about religion/God (mainly a religious God I guess) is why he/she/it would want people to believe in him/her/it based on faith and some ancient unreliable stories? If he/she/it created us as relatively intelligent beings why would he want people to waste the life he/she/it gave us worshiping him/her/it blindly and fighting over who is right or wrong or whatever or wasting our lives trying to prove or disprove their existence?

..so yeah, basically live and let live..?...that's what I think as well..(other than obviously not ignoring anything extreme in religion..)...

[Ammi]

So let's mock religious people who have a belief/faith in something unproven but LT knew Einstein personally to use him as one of his arguments? :fan:

..well there are rumours that LT's that old and Arista has kept him going with some of his robot bits...so maybe/interesting theory..(but still to be proven though..:fist:..)...

[Livia]

If there was no religion in schools :umm2: and no religion in politics then no one would care if you believe in gods. If religion wasnt the root source of terrorism no one would care


Sadly all 3 things exist so it needs to be exposed as frequently as possible

Hitler wasn't particularly religious. Religious people don't have the monopoly on badness... I think you'll find that's humans in general.

[Niamh.]

..so yeah, basically live and let live..?...that's what I think as well..(other than obviously not ignoring anything extreme in religion..)...

Yeah like those suicide bombers, what a waste of life by being so brain washed into thinking that this wasn't "the real life" and if this isn't "the real life" why bother with all the fighting and trying to convert people in the name of God anyway?

[Marsh.]

..well there are rumours that LT's that old and Arista has kept him going with some of his robot bits...so maybe/interesting theory..(but still to be proven though..:fist:..)...

:joker:

[Livia]

Yeah like those suicide bombers, what a waste of life by being so brain washed into thinking that this wasn't "the real life" and if this isn't "the real life" why bother with all the fighting and trying to convert people in the name of God anyway?

On the flip side, you've got countless volunteers with the Red Cross and the Red Crescent, going into war zones to help people. The Salvation Army raising money for refugees, the Church Army doing the same... No one's all good or all bad, human beings are a bit of both, whether they're religious or not.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't want to knock people for having beliefs or whatever, I just think maybe that it's a waste of this one life that we have to be thinking that this is like some sort of waiting room for our "real" life. Shouldn't we just try to enjoy this one as much as we can because chances are it's all we have and that's not so bad is it? I mean we aren't going to know any different afterwards

I dont think we have knocked people here just the ludicrous nature of the main religions