Riots after Utah police shoot 16yr old boy who was carrying a broomstick...

[Ammi]

...there isn't a huge amount of information/details about this atm...


3BnXW2Uxqqc

A male who authorities say was wielding a broomstick was shot and critically injured by Salt Lake City officers on Saturday night, touching off hours of unrest as officers wore riot gear and bystanders threw rocks and bottles.

The male shot by two Salt Lake City police officers was in critical condition at a local hospital on Sunday morning after being struck twice in the torso, according to detective Ken Hansen with the Unified police department, which is investigating the shooting.

Hansen did not have details about the male’s identity or age, but a bystander told local newspapers that the male was a teenager.

Salt Lake City police detective Greg Wilking said two police officers are on administrative leave as a result of the shooting.

Hansen said the shooting occurred when two officers were called around 8pm to break up a fight, near a downtown homeless shelter that stands next to a shopping mall and movie theater.

When the officers arrived, they found the male in the street, hitting another person with the broomstick, Hansen said. Officers tried to break up the fight, but the male with the broomstick tried to attack an officer, according to the detective.

One or both of the police officers shot the male, hitting him in the upper and lower torso, Hansen said. He did not have details about the identity of the other person involved in the fight, what prompted the dispute, or whether anyone else was injured.

“There’s still a lot to go through,” Hansen said. Police were not releasing the identity of the officers, he added.

Bystander Selam Mohammad told the Salt Lake Tribune and Deseret News that his teenage friend was shot by police.

Mohammad said his friend was holding the broomstick at his side when officers arrived, and that police shot him as soon as he turned around.

Hansen did not have details on Sunday about how many shots were fired or how far away the male with the broomstick was from police when they pulled their guns. He did not know the size of the broomstick or whether it was sharpened. He also did not know whether the male had a gun, knife or any other weapon.

After the shooting, bystanders began yelling obscenities and throwing rocks and bottles at police, who called in about 100 officers to help.

Hansen said one officer was hit with a bottle, but he did not have details about whether that officer or any other was injured. He did not have details about any arrests and directed those questions to Salt Lake City police.



Salt Lake City police did not return messages on Sunday morning. Wilking had few details about what prompted the fight or how the shooting unfolded.

“Our officers arriving on scene encountered a lot of hostile people upset about what had taken place,” Wilking told the Deseret News.

Police, including some wearing helmets and carrying riot shields, barricaded four surrounding city blocks. A light rail stop was closed.

“We’re locking down the area, barricading off streets and having a strong officer presence in the area,” Wilking told the newspaper on Saturday night. He said some people were detained and witnesses were being interviewed at police headquarters.

“There were pockets of that disturbance for hours,” Hansen said on Sunday.

He said the protesters throwing rocks and bottles were people hanging out near the shelter. He didn’t know if they were homeless, but he said they were not customers of the nearby shopping center.

Hansen said the area was relatively busy, with people visiting the shopping center and restaurants and others hanging out near the shelter and homeless facilities.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/28/utah-police-shooting-male-holding-broomstick-unrest

[arista]

Yes Fast Shooting again.

Better to lay flat on the ground

[Tom4784]

Ridiculous, if he had a knife or a deadly weapon then I could understand but they honestly couldn't have just tased him? I hope these police officers face charges, to resort to their guns as a first resort when there's no justification for it is basically murder.

[Mystic Mock]

The American Police need better mental training as they seem to be too unprepared for these sorts of situations.

I honestly don't know what they're being taught in their training but whatever it is it's not working as they're suffering from more accidents than most Police Forces in Europe.

[Ammi]

Ridiculous, if he had a knife or a deadly weapon then I could understand but they honestly couldn't have just tased him? I hope these police officers face charges, to resort to their guns as a first resort when there's no justification for it is basically murder.

..and also two gunshots fired into him...

[Tom4784]

The American Police need better mental training as they seem to be too unprepared for these sorts of situations.

I honestly don't know what they're being taught in their training but whatever it is it's not working as they're suffering from more accidents than most Police Forces in Europe.

It's not a problem with the entire police force or how they are trained, it's more to do with the fact that these Dirty Harry wannabes manage to get hired and get their hands on these guns when they shouldn't be trusted with an inflatable bat.

For every bad cop there's thousands of good ones but the Police forces of America really need to pay more attention to who they recruit because these bad cops shouldn't be allowed to be security guards at a shopping centre, never mind gun wielding police officers. It's the actions of a few that are affecting trust between the public and the police force and these murderers shouldn't be protected and the bar needs to be set higher when it comes to new recruits.

One incident of Police Brutality is too much, nevermind having them occur on a regular basis.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think it I wait till there is actually some real information rather than speculation....

:umm2:

[Mystic Mock]

It's not a problem with the entire police force or how they are trained, it's more to do with the fact that these Dirty Harry wannabes manage to get hired and get their hands on these guns when they shouldn't be trusted with an inflatable bat.

For every bad cop there's thousands of good ones but the Police forces of America really need to pay more attention to who they recruit because these bad cops shouldn't be allowed to be security guards at a shopping centre, never mind gun wielding police officers. It's the actions of a few that are affecting trust between the public and the police force and these murderers shouldn't be protected and the bar needs to be set higher when it comes to new recruits.

One incident of Police Brutality is too much, nevermind having them occur on a regular basis.

Oh I agree with most of The Police seem to be able to do their jobs properly.

Maybe you're right and that they need to recruit better I don't know, either way they're definitely gonna have to sort something out otherwise Civilians will never trust The Police in the US if they feel like they're gonna get gunned down at any moment.

[Z]

Are you saying this was... a witch hunt?

[arista]

I think it I wait till there is actually some real information rather than speculation....

:umm2:


Valid Point LT.

[user104658]

I think it I wait till there is actually some real information rather than speculation....

:umm2:
I wait with bated breath to discover just what your opinion on this will be LT. Will you side with the kid? Will you side with the cops? It's almost impossible to say, as we have absolutely no prior experience of your opinion on these sorts of cases. Exciting stuff.

[Alf]

Did anybody hear the news of the female cop shot dead on her first day in the job?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3469709/Army-sergeant-accused-killing-wife-rookie-Virginia-cop-appears-court-shackled-surrounded-officers-prosecutor-announces-seeking-death-penalty.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wait with bated breath to discover just what your opinion on this will be LT. Will you side with the kid? Will you side with the cops? It's almost impossible to say, as we have absolutely no prior experience of your opinion on these sorts of cases. Exciting stuff.

well i am not siding with the brainless morons who threw rocks and bottles at the law enforcement officers

so chalk that one off right now

[Crimson Dynamo]

Did anybody hear the news of the female cop shot dead on her first day in the job?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3469709/Army-sergeant-accused-killing-wife-rookie-Virginia-cop-appears-court-shackled-surrounded-officers-prosecutor-announces-seeking-death-penalty.html



Horrific

And as I always say, they wake up each day knowing it could be their last to protect the lives of others

[Livia]

I think it I wait till there is actually some real information rather than speculation....

:umm2:

That kind of restraint has no place in Serious Debates LT, what are you thinking...?

[user104658]

well i am not siding with the brainless morons who threw rocks and bottles at the law enforcement officers

so chalk that one off right now
You think that it was his fault for brandishing a stick around them / their job is dangerous / better than a dead Cop / anyone would do the same if their life was on the line / add some links to shot cops in the US.

Its groundhog day again on TiBB Debates.

[DemolitionRed]

Sounds like a very volatile situation.
According to KSL, this is more or less a no go area where crime is rife and police officers often fear for their lives.

I'm not in any way excusing the shooting of a 17 year old boy. You can't afford to make a mistake with a gun.

What sort of training do these armed cops get?

[Tom4784]

Did anybody hear the news of the female cop shot dead on her first day in the job?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3469709/Army-sergeant-accused-killing-wife-rookie-Virginia-cop-appears-court-shackled-surrounded-officers-prosecutor-announces-seeking-death-penalty.html

You think this justifies police brutality?

It's a tragedy that has no bearing on this situation or a major issue facing both the US public and the police.

[Alf]

You think this justifies police brutality?

It's a tragedy that has no bearing on this situation or a major issue facing both the US public and the police.
Yes and also Black lives matter are a racist organisation in the same mould as the KKK.

And this will be the last time I ever reply to you, because the last time I replied to you on a subject, you used your power as a mod to delete my post and infract me, just because you didn't agree with me.

[Denver]

These police officers need 2 gunshots into them.

Is this how they treat their kids at home? Tidy your room or I'll put a bullet in you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You think that it was his fault for brandishing a stick around them / their job is dangerous / better than a dead Cop / anyone would do the same if their life was on the line / add some links to shot cops in the US.

Its groundhog day again on TiBB Debates.

Sorry but are you saying that they were right to attack law enfoprcement officers?

[Crimson Dynamo]

These police officers need 2 gunshots into them.

Is this how they treat their kids at home? Tidy your room or I'll put a bullet in you.

that is one sick and silly thing to say


jesus wept

[Tom4784]

Yes and also Black lives matter are a racist organisation in the same mould as the KKK.

And this will be the last time I ever reply to you, because the last time I replied to you on a subject, you used your power as a mod to delete my post and infract me, just because you didn't agree with me.

This is so ridiculous that I can't even process it. Pray tell how is Black Lives Matter, an organisation that protests against Police Brutality (A crime that affects mostly black people in America) the same as a criminal organisation that partakes in Murder and Terrorism?

You don't need to answer that, it's a rhetorical question. The answer is that you can't tell the difference because you embody one of the worst traits of our race, crippling self absorption. You're comparing BLM to KKK because you are offended that, on small occasions, white people are not the center of the universe. It's the same godamn thing with white people that take exception to Black History Month or even **** like the MOBOs or BET.

As for the dig about me being a mod (Weak ass tactic). It wasn't even me that infracted you so drop that **** right now and debate my post, don't deflect it by bringing up the fact that I'm a mod because you lack an answer to it.

[Tom4784]

Sorry but are you saying that they were right to attack law enfoprcement officers?

Are you saying that it's right that the police shot a child because he was holding a broom?

One event caused the other, if the police weren't inept then there wouldn't have been a riot.

[Denver]

that is one sick and silly thing to say


jesus wept

Why is it? They don't respect kids clearly the only thing they respect is having power and abusing it

[user104658]

Sorry but are you saying that they were right to attack law enfoprcement officers?
No, I'm really just pointing out that we've done this discussion to death something like 5 times in the last 6 months, with slight variations to the story, and everyone's opinion remaining the same.

If you want my opinion on this, feel free to look up the last "stupid kid gets shot by trigger happy cops" thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are you saying that it's right that the police shot a child because he was holding a broom?

One event caused the other, if the police weren't inept then there wouldn't have been a riot.

we have no idea what happened as the facts have not come out, even if the police did shoot the person when restraint could have been better applied


1. they did not so it because they wanted to
2. They did not do it because they are evil muderers

So the people there regardless shopuild not attack thje police as they had no idea what went on

You cannot encourge mob justice

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, I'm really just pointing out that we've done this discussion to death something like 5 times in the last 6 months, with slight variations to the story, and everyone's opinion remaining the same.

If you want my opinion on this, feel free to look up the last "stupid kid gets shot by trigger happy cops" thread.

Each situation differs and in this one we have no idea what happened


In the last one where that kid had a gun in a parkl the officers were rightly and thankfully cleared

[Denver]

we have no idea what happened as the facts have not come out, even if the police did shoot the person when restraint could have been better applied


1. they did not so it because they wanted to
2. They did not do it because they are evil muderers

So the people there regardless shopuild not attack thje police as they had no idea what went on

You cannot encourge mob justice

Of course they wanted to shoot the boy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Of course they wanted to shoot the boy

If you cant be serious then this is not the thread for you

:rolleyes:

[Tom4784]

we have no idea what happened as the facts have not come out, even if the police did shoot the person when restraint could have been better applied


1. they did not so it because they wanted to
2. They did not do it because they are evil muderers

So the people there regardless shopuild not attack thje police as they had no idea what went on

You cannot encourge mob justice

I've not spoken about mob justice, nor encouraged it. I've only said that the riot was a direct consequence of the police officers' actions. I don't condone it but you can't use it to remove blame from the police, that's just really desperate.

There's nothing contradicting the events present in the story, no one's come out saying any differently, no one is contesting the eyewitness' version of events. How long do you intend to wait for a magical non-existent justification for the murder of a teenager?

The boy had a broomstick, police officers carry, batons, tasers, pepper spray and probably some other non lethal weapons that I'm forgetting. The fact that they went for their guns first against someone who wasn't even a lethal threat is just piss poor policing and downright murder.

[Denver]

If you cant be serious then this is not the thread for you

:rolleyes:

What sane person would think when they see a child walking around with a broomstick the first thing you do is shoot 2 bullets in them?

[user104658]

Each situation differs and in this one we have no idea what happened


In the last one where that kid had a gun in a parkl the officers were rightly and thankfully cleared
Each situation differs, and everyone climbs back on with their same old opinion and yaaaawwwnnnnn. You know exactly who each member is going to side with, and their reasons, before even opening the thread. Why would that be if every situations differs? The answer is that they don't, really. Slight differences in set up, zero difference in response.

[Crimson Dynamo]

All we have is some people who were there (maybe intoxicated, friends of the perp or police haters) who told the local media what they think happened.

Now its likely that they were attacking the police so naturally would wish to try and make it look like it was all the fault of the cops


Do we have the police side of the story? no


Its just the same old - "its was the cops fault" bollocks


The POlice cannot issue their video at the moment: "Police cited the ongoing investigation into the shooting and possible charges against the teenager as to why they would not release the video "



This is why the police were called (at night): Salt Lake City police say a 17-year-old boy and another male were attacking a third male with metal sticks when officers shot the teenager Saturday night. SO not very nice and criminal behavoir.


Police said in a statement that the teenage boy (17) did not drop the object when ordered to do so by police and instead advanced on the victim. - so they warned him to drop the weapon, he did not.



Criminal behavoir and not doing what armed oficers tell you in America can lead to you being shot dead.

[arista]

Yes LT
Police in USA doing there job.

[DemolitionRed]

All we have is some people who were there (maybe intoxicated, friends of the perp or police haters) who told the local media what they think happened.

Now its likely that they were attacking the police so naturally would wish to try and make it look like it was all the fault of the cops


Do we have the police side of the story? no


Its just the same old - "its was the cops fault" bollocks


The POlice cannot issue their video at the moment: "Police cited the ongoing investigation into the shooting and possible charges against the teenager as to why they would not release the video "



This is why the police were called (at night): Salt Lake City police say a 17-year-old boy and another male were attacking a third male with metal sticks when officers shot the teenager Saturday night. SO not very nice and criminal behavoir.


Police said in a statement that the teenage boy (17) did not drop the object when ordered to do so by police and instead advanced on the victim. - so they warned him to drop the weapon, he did not.



Criminal behavoir and not doing what armed oficers tell you in America can lead to you being shot dead.

Speculation, speculation, speculation. We can't defend the police officers or the injured person without further information.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Speculation, speculation, speculation. We can't defend the police officers or the injured person without further information.

yes thats what i just said :shrug:

[Northern Monkey]

Now if they'd taken the broom off him and beat the **** out of him with it i could understand.But shooting him is excessive.I mean i could easily disarm somebody weilding a broom so i'm sure two cops trained in self defence would have no problem.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Now if they'd taken the broom off him and beat the **** out of him with it i could understand.But shooting him is excessive.I mean i could easily disarm somebody weilding a broom so i'm sure two cops trained in self defence would have no problem.

It was a metal pole and he could have a gun in his pocket

you would not last long in the Police Force with that gung-ho attitude

[Northern Monkey]

It was a metal pole and he could have a gun in his pocket

you would not last long in the Police Force with that gung-ho attitude

They had no suspicion of a gun though.They could have tazed him or something.If he had a visible gun or knife then yeah blast him but a metal pole i think a tazer or pepper spray is enough.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They had no suspicion of a gun though.They could have tazed him or something.If he had a visible gun or knife then yeah blast him but a metal pole i think a tazer or pepper spray is enough.

In the USA the cops have to expect ALL suspects may be armed. We say a vcideo last week where a drugs perp on a routine stop pulled a firearm and shot an officer

[Northern Monkey]

In the USA the cops have to expect ALL suspects may be armed. We say a vcideo last week where a drugs perp on a routine stop pulled a firearm and shot an officer

If he's brandishing a metal pole then chances are that's the best weapon he's got.

[Beso]

one blow from a metal pole is more likely going to kill than a stab wound.

[user104658]

Criminal behavoir and not doing what armed oficers tell you in America can lead to you being shot dead.

:omgno: NO! Surely not?? I dunno LT, I'd be totally clueless about the world if it wasn't for these little pearls of wisdom.

Out of interest LT... how on earth do British cops, sans firearms, manage to deal with thugs brandishing sticks / metal poles / bricks / bottles etc? Against all odds, they seem to manage it :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:omgno: NO! Surely not?? I dunno LT, I'd be totally clueless about the world if it wasn't for these little pearls of wisdom.

Out of interest LT... how on earth do British cops, sans firearms, manage to deal with thugs brandishing sticks / metal poles / bricks / bottles etc? Against all odds, they seem to manage it :shrug:


Different countries and heritage. I am not saying the USA is a better model

[user104658]

Different countries and heritage. I am not saying the USA is a better model
It doesn't matter what the heritage is or why it happens. It's entirely cultural. We're discussing necessity... And if police in one part of the world can disarm and subdue aggressors wielding makeshift blunt weapons without the use of firearms and without excessive casualties, then police anywhere in the world can do the same.

I understand why they have to carry guns, as so much of the population is armed. Carrying one doesn't mean they have to use it as their go-to response in any given situation, though.

[lostalex]

"Riots" is definitely an exaggeration. Nice try trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill though.

[DemolitionRed]

yes thats what i just said :shrug:

Then why are you so adamantly defending the police officers?

[DemolitionRed]

American cops are famous for using unnecessary deadly force.

According to this article http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/american-cops-lethal_us_565cde59e4b079b2818b8870 American cops are 18 times more lethal than French, Danish and Swedish police forces that carry guns and a 100 times more lethal than Finish police.

Less-lethal weapon holders make up only about 20% of deadly force victims in the US. Yet the rates of these deaths alone exceed total known deadly force rates in any European county.
British police have fatally shot only one person wielding a knife since 2008. US police have fatally shot more than 575 people allegedly wielding blades and other such weapons between 2013 and 15.

My question is, why didn't they shoot up in the air as a warning shot or shoot a none vital body part instead of shooting to kill?

[lostalex]

My question is, why didn't they shoot up in the air as a warning shot or shoot a none vital body part instead of shooting to kill?

Is this a joke? you watch too many movies. and what happens when that bullet they shot in the air kills someone a mile away when it comes back down?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is this a joke? you watch too many movies. and what happens when that bullet they shot in the air kills someone a mile away when it comes back down?

LOL


(not at the dead person)

[kirklancaster]

No, I'm really just pointing out that we've done this discussion to death something like 5 times in the last 6 months, with slight variations to the story, and everyone's opinion remaining the same.

If you want my opinion on this, feel free to look up the last "stupid kid gets shot by trigger happy cops" thread.

:laugh: :laugh: You ARE 'Bang On Right' in what you state here T.S - BUT, you do realise that you have also just accurately summarised EVERY SINGLE S.D. THREAD DEBATE THERE HAS EVER BEEN? :laugh:

[user104658]

:laugh: :laugh: You ARE 'Bang On Right' in what you state here T.S - BUT, you do realise that you have also just accurately summarised EVERY SINGLE S.D. THREAD DEBATE THERE HAS EVER BEEN? :laugh:

That's true, but it can be fun the first couple of times, and even to revisit these old arguments after enough time has passed for another round. Like a favourite old porn clip. But these "LT wholeheartedly agrees with US cops use of force" threads have come up so often lately, and with so little variation on the theme, that it's just impossible to get excited about them :(. Not even a chubby.