Rooney in England's Euro Starting XI - Yes or no?

[Shaun]

Seems a divisive subject and there's now arguably enough counter-options provided they don't get injured before the end of the season (Vardy, Kane, Welbeck, Sturridge, Berahino, um...Walcott :whistle:...) so thought I'd make a poll.

[Mystic Mock]

As long as we're not playing 4-4-2 then I would have him play behind the two strikers Kane and Vardy.

If it's 4-4-2 however then his sitting on the bench.

[alex_front2]

No, under no circumstance should he be any where near the squad.

He only gets picked to play for England as he plays for Man U and the FA like the commercial benefits that he brings. Had Rooney still played for Everton, or a club like Stoke or Swansea he'd be no where near the national set up. He's way behind the likes of Vardy , Kane and Sturridge on current scoring ability.

As for the captaincy claim that should always be re-evaluted and now that can go elsewhere. Rooney seems about as inspirational as mouldy lettuce. He can barely string a sentence together. If I were an England player I'd be p*ssed off having to play with a £300k player who is below bang average and expects others to support him in the "Rooney record breaking scoring show".

Also counties like Germany don't give a crap about "star players" and "commercial interest" of a player, it's all about if a player is on form and performing week in week out. It's about the team, the "Mannschaft". Thomas Muller is a top player but he's not a huge Rooney level star.

[GiRTh]

As long as we're not playing 4-4-2 then I would have him play behind the two strikers Kane and Vardy.

If it's 4-4-2 however then his sitting on the bench.
You think Vardy will start above Sturridge if fit? I doubt that tbh.

On form he should be no where near the first team but it would be a very brave England manager who dropped the captain and all time leading scorer.

[alex_front2]

Kane and Vardy should be a partnership. Roy needs to capitalise on the fact that these two go way back, despite the title rivalry they know each other relatively well and played together at Leicester (Kane on loan).

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeToyIJW4AAy0JK.jpg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeToyIJW4AAy0JK.jpg

[Mystic Mock]

You think Vardy will start above Sturridge if fit? I doubt that tbh.

On form he should be no where near the first team but it would be a very brave England manager who dropped the captain and all time leading scorer.

If Sturridge gets picked over Vardy in the starting 11 then it just shows you how corrupt the whole system is really.

Btw I'm a fan of Sturridge, I've always been since he came through at Chelsea, but his been injured for most of the season so he certainly should not be picked over Vardy who's had a fantastic season and is playing for the soon to be champions in the Premier League.

[Alf]

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, because if he's not injured then Rooney will be starting as captain. You can bet your bottom dollar on that.

[Shaun]

not really grasping the point of the poll there are you

[bots]

As a Scotland supporter, I think Rooney should be a must start for every game

[Crimson Dynamo]

no, no, no

he has NO place in the squad and neither has Wiltshire or Walcott

[Alf]

not really grasping the point of the poll there are youAu contraire, I grasp the point perfectly.

English football fans always scapegoat their best player, not that there's anything to scapegoat for at the moment, after a perfect qualification for the latest tournament, but they won't let that stop them.

If negatives are all people go looking for, then that's all they'll find.


For us to leave Rooney out is the equivalent of Portugal leaving out Ronaldo, Argentina leaving out Messi, Germany leaving out Nauer (Their countries best player).

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

[Alf]

I remember the lead up to Euro 96, Shearer was bang out of form and hadn't scored far a good while, people were looking towards other options then, he walked out of the tournament with the Golden boot, which proves my last quote of the last post.

[Denver]

Shouldn't even be in consideration

[Alf]

Just to back up what I said on Shearer, here's a snippet from a Telegraph article.



As Shearer sat inside St James' Park on Thursday, facing the question-firing squad with his back ramrod-straight and eyes glinting with steel, his mind wandered back to those 12 goalless games he endured before Euro 96. Names of other noted poachers were being touted around, respected finishers such as Les Ferdinand, Andy Cole and Ian Wright. Venables would not be swayed. He knew Shearer could form a devastating partnership with Teddy Sheringham, the famous SAS.


"A month before the tournament, Terry said to me: 'You will be starting the tournament.' I always remembered the belief that gave me. That was a great piece of man-management. That always stuck out for me. Every player loves to be told how well they are doing, what a good player they are.''


His confidence bolstered, Shearer tore into Europe's finest, finishing as top scorer with five goals, dovetailing brilliantly with Teddy Sheringham. Although England ended empty-handed and broken-hearted, Shearer had handsomely repaid Venables' faith.







Why don't we start boosting Rooney's confidence by telling him how good he is, instead of the opposite? It's too late to start saying how great he was, when he retires.

[Mystic Mock]

Rooney is still a good player, but you can't blame people for wanting replacements that are better at this current moment.

[alex_front2]

no, no, no

he has NO place in the squad and neither has Wiltshire or Walcott

This.

I'd add Lalana, Milner to that axe list and even Henderson

We need to phase out these bang average, World Cup failure players (bar Luke Shaw who iirc only played in dead rubber game v Costa Rica). And this will be controversial but I'd also review Joe Hart as a GK certainty to start. For me Forster is ahead of him in the pecking order. It's just that Hart plays behind a superior Man City defence. Also not sure about Cahil but he may be there as centre back options are poor.

[Alf]

Michael Dawson has been brilliant for Hull City this season, Gary Cahill been bang average this season, so if it's all about form, does that mean Michael Dawson should be in before Cahill?


Or is Rooney singled out because he's the media's wet dream?

The fact that Rooney is being singled out is because you all know he's our best player, you just have to look at the facts and his CV to see that.

Why scapegoat Rooney for England doing well in the past 2 years? why not Danny Rose or Jordan Henderson?

[GiRTh]

Michael Dawson has been brilliant for Hull City this season, Gary Cahill been bang average this season, so if it's all about form, does that mean Michael Dawson should be in before Cahill?


Or is Rooney singled out because he's the media's wet dream?

The fact that Rooney is being singled out is because you all know he's our best player, you just have to look at the facts and his CV to see that.

Why scapegoat Rooney for England doing well in the past 2 years? why not Danny Rose or Jordan Henderson?Danny Rose has had only one cap but I agree about Henderson. There are other players who are in better form.

[Shaun]

Butland out for 3 months and missing the Euros :worry: poor guy

[alex_front2]

Au contraire, I grasp the point perfectly.

English football fans always scapegoat their best player, not that there's anything to scapegoat for at the moment, after a perfect qualification for the latest tournament, but they won't let that stop them.

If negatives are all people go looking for, then that's all they'll find.


For us to leave Rooney out is the equivalent of Portugal leaving out Ronaldo, Argentina leaving out Messi, Germany leaving out Nauer (Their countries best player).

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Rooney USED to be good, he's past it now. Ronaldo still scores goals.

[alex_front2]

This:

Sam – ‏@sjam29

I don't understand pundit's view on Rooney?

"He has to start because of his record."

Sure! We may as well play Lineker and Owen too then!

[Alf]

Rooney USED to be good, he's past it now. Ronaldo still scores goals.
That's your opinion, but you also come out with statements like Eddie Howe should be the England manager. So I can't take your statements seriously.


And I also have facts on my side, like, in qualifying for the up-coming European Championships, which one player in the whole group in which England were in, finished as the groups top goal-scorer?

And when you answer, this.

In your opinion it's a miracle, because the player is no longer good enough, so how could that have possibly happened?

[Mystic Mock]

This.

I'd add Lalana, Milner to that axe list and even Henderson

We need to phase out these bang average, World Cup failure players (bar Luke Shaw who iirc only played in dead rubber game v Costa Rica). And this will be controversial but I'd also review Joe Hart as a GK certainty to start. For me Forster is ahead of him in the pecking order. It's just that Hart plays behind a superior Man City defence. Also not sure about Cahil but he may be there as centre back options are poor.

Forster was shocking tonight, I would pick Hart and Butland over him anyday of the week.

[alex_front2]

That's your opinion, but you also come out with statements like Eddie Howe should be the England manager. So I can't take your statements seriously.


And I also have facts on my side, like, in qualifying for the up-coming European Championships, which one player in the whole group in which England were in, finished as the groups top goal-scorer?

And when you answer, this.

In your opinion it's a miracle, because the player is no longer good enough, so how could that have possibly happened?
That's because the EURO qualifying games essentially became the " let's help Wayne Rooney break Sir Bobby's goal scoring record" show. Players literally playing ball to him just so he could inch closer to topping the scoring charts [loved the fact 'Own Goals' beat him for a while :joker:].

When a player win a penalty, Wayne took it. :nono: Pathetic. Love the fact that his place is now under threat. If Hodgson was a good manager he'd axe Wayne, but he's crap and will pack Wayne's suitcase for France (Argentina dropped Aguero to bench as he's not performing. Kun Aguero.) Face it, Wayne Rooney's golden days should be over.

[Alf]

That's because the EURO qualifying games essentially became the " let's help Wayne Rooney break Sir Bobby's goal scoring record" show. Players literally playing ball to him just so he could inch closer to topping the scoring charts [loved the fact 'Own Goals' beat him for a while :joker:].

When a player win a penalty, Wayne took it. :nono: Pathetic. Love the fact that his place is now under threat. If Hodgson was a good manager he'd axe Wayne, but he's crap and will pack Wayne's suitcase for France (Argentina dropped Aguero to bench as he's not performing. Kun Aguero.) Face it, Wayne Rooney's golden days should be over.
Let's be honest, you'd love him to be a failure at the Euro's, just so you can say "I told you so"

Whoever plays, just support them, and be happy for them.

Already, before the tournament has even started, you're against the manager, I've seen nothing he's done so far to warrant the negativity.

And your against the captain, he's been singled out because he's our best player.

I've heard it all before, it's just funny how it's always the manager and the best player that aren't good enough, coincidently the media's favourite targets.

We used to idolise our best players, Stanley Matthews, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker ect, where did it all go wrong? I don't know, maybe Rooney will be idolised when he retires, you reckon?

[Shaun]

I'm just amused people are still calling Rooney our best player. Is it 2008?

[alex_front2]

Let's be honest, you'd love him to be a failure at the Euro's, just so you can say "I told you so"

Whoever plays, just support them, and be happy for them.

Already, before the tournament has even started, you're against the manager, I've seen nothing he's done so far to warrant the negativity.

And your against the captain, he's been singled out because he's our best player.

I've heard it all before, it's just funny how it's always the manager and the best player that aren't good enough, coincidently the media's favourite targets.

We used to idolise our best players, Stanley Matthews, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker ect, where did it all go wrong? I don't know, maybe Rooney will be idolised when he retires, you reckon?

But Rooney is not England's best player. He hasn't been since 2012. The thing is the best England player has changed every season so no one has consistenly mounted a threat to his supremacy...till now. Harry Kane and to a lesser extent Vardy pose a real worry for him. He said during the ITV Holland game as pundit that he relishes the 'exciting' challenge of fighting for his place in the team for the first time. He really should be fighting for his place in 23 man squad let alone first 11 team. The thing is he knows comfortably that if semi fit, Roy H will pick him..

If he is serious about fighting for his place, why doesn't Wayne renounce the England captaincy that he is clearly hiding behind as his 'get into the team regardless of performance ' card. Why doesnt he let his goal scoring do the work. He has scored about 9 /10 goals this season. Poor. Would Wanye get into the side if he was at West Brom or Soton? Players like Charlie Austin must be a bit pi$$ed off.

The thing is Wayne is not a fighter in adverse conditions or a hungry wolf scraper in the Isthmian South League 3 like a Vardy type. Wayne's had a remarkable glamorous career from when he burst into the scene as a 15 year old under Moyes at Everton, move to Man U, playing in brilliant squads with Scholes, Fernindand, Rio F and of course CR7 winning titles, CL, cups and going to EURO 2004 etc.

[Alf]

I'm just amused people are still calling Rooney our best player. Is it 2008?
Away you go then, tell us who is.

I bet I find your answer far more amusing then you find mine.

Rooney has been England's best player for the past ten year's, and there's nothing any other player has done of note to take that crown of him, or have you seen something different?


The only player at the moment who looks like he has the potential to take that crown is Dele Alli, but at this moment in time, he hasn't done anything major, although I think he could be one off the stars of the up-coming tournament.

[Alf]

Even if Rooney isn't at his best, his experience and voice on the pitch is vital for us.

Which current England players are captain's of there club team, I know Rooney is captain of one of the biggest clubs in the World.

Rooney is forth in most caps for England of all time, and will likely end up in the top two. He's scored more goals than any other player in the history of the English football team.

No other current English player can even come close to that.

And he's only 30 year's of age, even younger than Cristiano Ronaldo, and his International strike rate is around about the same as Ronaldo's, in-fact maybe slightly better.

Ronaldo, 125 caps 56 goals
Rooney, 109 caps 51 goals

[alex_front2]

Away you go then, tell us who is.

I bet I find your answer far more amusing then you find mine.

Rooney has been England's best player for the past ten year's, and there's nothing any other player has done of note to take that crown of him, or have you seen something different?


The only player at the moment who looks like he has the potential to take that crown is Dele Alli, but at this moment in time, he hasn't done anything major, although I think he could be one off the stars of the up-coming tournament.
I am afraid Dele Alli and Kane, Vardy, Dier, Sterling, Sturridge, and Shaw are all better than Rooney. How many goals has Rooney scored this season?

[alex_front2]

Even if Rooney isn't at his best, his experience and voice on the pitch is vital for us.

Which current England players are captain's of there club team, I know Rooney is captain of one of the biggest clubs in the World.

Rooney is forth in most caps for England of all time, and will likely end up in the top two. He's scored more goals than any other player in the history of the English football team.

No other current English player can even come close to that.

And he's only 30 year's of age, even younger than Cristiano Ronaldo, and his International strike rate is around about the same as Ronaldo's, in-fact maybe slightly better.

Ronaldo, 125 caps 56 goals
Rooney, 109 caps 51 goals

So by your logic we should wheel out Sir Bobby and Lineker to play for England as they have scored more goals IN THE DISTANT PAST :joker:

PS Even Chalie Austin outscored Rooney last season. It wouldn't surprise me if the kid Rashford and flipping Andy Carroll outscore him. :laugh2:

That's just it, Rooney's experience and voice on pitch would be detrimental to the others. First of all, he's barely achieved anything within England tournaments. Decent in friendly games and qualification, crap in tournaments. 1 losing goal in the last word cup (which he over indulged in celebration), in 2004 he did score a few pointless goals but England didn't get out of group, 2008 couldn't quality from an easy qualification group, 2012 outplayed by Italy and lucky to get to lose by penalities (Pirlo was toying with England). England needs a fresh broom, fewer ties with last world cup (just keep Joe Hart, Sterling, Barclay, Jagielka, Forster, Sturrridge, Stones, Shaw and that's it).

Getting rid of Rooney has made England better, players more creative, not looking to lazily pass ball to King Rooney to top up his goalscoring record.

[Alf]

Am I suppose to take your argument seriously?, that the England team actually whilst trying to win games to qualify for the European Championships, just used the games to pass to Rooney, so he could top up his goal tally, is this what I'm arguing against?


I think my experience and your experience of Football is very different.

[Mystic Mock]

I am afraid Dele Alli and Kane, Vardy, Dier, Sterling, Sturridge, and Shaw are all better than Rooney. How many goals has Rooney scored this season?

Sterling has not been better than Rooney in any season.

[alex_front2]

Am I suppose to take your argument seriously?, that the England team actually whilst trying to win games to qualify for the European Championships, just used the games to pass to Rooney, so he could top up his goal tally, is this what I'm arguing against?


I think my experience and your experience of Football is very different.

Actually this is also the opinion of (ex Liverpool) Dietmar Hamann, and Danny Kelly, you know, football pundits :laugh2:

[alex_front2]

Sterling has not been better than Rooney in any season.
Sterling has not lived up to expectations but has been way way way better than Mr £300k a week.

[Alf]

Actually this is also the opinion of (ex Liverpool) Dietmar Hamann, and Danny Kelly, you know, football pundits :laugh2:
That say's it all to me really, you get your opinion from the media. My opinion is my own.

But if we're going down that road then I saw Teddy Sherringham being questioned on this subject before last weeks England game, and he was championing Rooney's corner.

I also so Roy Keane a few weeks back saying Rooney is Manchester United's only top class player and only leader, you know, football legends.

I know you take your opinion from the media, because you speak exactly like them, negative against managers and top players, because they're the one's that make the best story.