FBI unlocks the Terrorist iphone at last

[arista]

They have not said how.
But its good news

http://news.sky.com/story/1668534/fbi-cracks-san-bernardino-attackers-iphone


Ref :SkyNewsHD , BBCNewsHD , FoxNewsHD , Radio5

[Rob!]

The FBi knows how to unlock private info on any iPhone. Yes, brilliant news :umm2:

[arista]

The FBi knows how to unlock private info on any iPhone. Yes, brilliant news :umm2:


I would assume a Outside hacker got paid in Cash
So it may not be in their Lab etc.

Its not about any iphone
its about Terrorist Phones.


[The FBI has successfully accessed data stored
on an iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino attackers.]

[arista]

One More Thing


Feck Apple.


Stopping Terrorists
is above You

[bots]

It's good news, because Apple will now increase the security of it's operating system

[Ammi]

One More Thing


Feck Apple.


Stopping Terrorists
is above You

..it isn't that black and white though, there is nothing to say that being able to access a phone owned by a terrorist will give any valuable information and why would Apple as a company who has made the privacy of their phones a huge feature as to why people choose them over others, then take away that feature and security for everyone..I mean you're a businessman Arista, you should understand that surely...would you compromise your own product in such a way so that people may be less inclined to purchase it...

It's good news, because Apple will now increase the security of it's operating system

..and yes, it's been a bit of a bittersweet victory, Apple winning the court case but finding out what the weaknesses are that they hadn't been aware of but now that they are, they can address that...

[DemolitionRed]

It's good news, because Apple will now increase the security of it's operating system

:clap1:

[Cherie]

One More Thing


Feck Apple.


Stopping Terrorists
is above You

I agree with you Arista, I think it was MTVN made the point about checking PCs countless paedophiles and others have been convicted in part due to what was found on their PCs how is accessing a phone any different, particularly in this case when it concerns security

[Crimson Dynamo]

lets hope they get some good stuff from this and it leads to arrests and not just their spotify history

[Cherie]

lets hope they get some good stuff from this and it leads to arrests and not just their spotify history


The spotify history could be a crime in itself :omgno:

[andybigbro]

I don't care if the fbi can unlock phones. I'm glad! The quicker they stop these vile creatures the better!

[Livia]

Great news. I'm kind of interested in what those who were against the FBI accessing a terrorist's phone are really worried about. What do they think they have about them that is SO interesting that the security services would be keen to take a look?

[Tom4784]

How naive to think that this won't be abused. It annoys me how people are willing to have their rights ransacked as soon as someone mentions T-word. People like that are pretty much allowing the terrorists to win since what is the point if we become a Police State anyway. It's like those fools that want to leave the EU because it's Human Rights laws apply to everyone and not just the people they like, they don't realise they're giving up their rights just to spite a peado.


Great news. I'm kind of interested in what those who were against the FBI accessing a terrorist's phone are really worried about. What do they think they have about them that is SO interesting that the security services would be keen to take a look?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnzGF9-CAAAAdGC.jpg

[T*]

How naive to think that this won't be abused. It annoys me how people are willing to have their rights ransacked as soon as someone mentions T-word. People like that are pretty much allowing the terrorists to win since what is the point if we become a Police State anyway. It's like those fools that want to leave the EU because it's Human Rights laws apply to everyone and not just the people they like, they don't realise they're giving up their rights just to spite a peado.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnzGF9-CAAAAdGC.jpg

THIS

[Jack_]

Great news. I'm kind of interested in what those who were against the FBI accessing a terrorist's phone are really worried about. What do they think they have about them that is SO interesting that the security services would be keen to take a look?

This wasn't about what the security services could access (though the nothing to hide, nothing to fear mantra truly is moronic), but more about the repercussions of what Apple writing a code to unlock this iPhone would be, and the access that potentially anyone with knowledge of that same code could then grant themselves. Anyone that actually bothered to read the initial letter - i.e. probably next to none of the people who were criticising Apple - would know this.

The end result of this has been a potentially positive one. The security services have got the access they required and so long as they cooperate with Apple, they will tighten up their security and cover up the loose ends. Everyone's a winner.

[Smithy]

Omg was it literally just the passcode they couldn't do?

[user104658]

The world is truly doomed. Even iPhones are being radicalised now? I didn't know Siri had developed a level of sentient thought capable of such existential choice as Jihad, but if it truly has, and there's a growing trend of iPhones turning to Islamic Extremism, then what are we supposed to do to stop it? Boom. A bomb in every living room. Game over.

[user104658]

Not in MY house, terrorist scum!

http://www.mikesenese.com/DOIT/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/iphone-4-smashed-on-ducati-580x433.jpg

Wife's pretty pissed off about her phone but you can't be too careful in this day and age.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How naive to think that this won't be abused. It annoys me how people are willing to have their rights ransacked as soon as someone mentions T-word. People like that are pretty much allowing the terrorists to win since what is the point if we become a Police State anyway. It's like those fools that want to leave the EU because it's Human Rights laws apply to everyone and not just the people they like, they don't realise they're giving up their rights just to spite a peado.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnzGF9-CAAAAdGC.jpg

That ius quite the leap there from getting info from a murderers phone to save lives and thus becoming a police state


:joker:

[Mokka]

This wasn't about what the security services could access (though the nothing to hide, nothing to fear mantra truly is moronic), but more about the repercussions of what Apple writing a code to unlock this iPhone would be, and the access that potentially anyone with knowledge of that same code could then grant themselves. Anyone that actually bothered to read the initial letter - i.e. probably next to none of the people who were criticising Apple - would know this.

The end result of this has been a potentially positive one. The security services have got the access they required and so long as they cooperate with Apple, they will tighten up their security and cover up the loose ends. Everyone's a winner.

agreed

[user104658]

That ius quite the leap there from getting info from a murderers phone to save lives and thus becoming a police state


:joker:

There isn't a leap.

"I'm kind of interested in what those who were against the FBI accessing a terrorist's phone are really worried about. What do they think they have about them that is SO interesting that the security services would be keen to take a look?"

is simply a long-winded way of saying

"Nothing to hide, nothing to fear".

This is a point of view that Livia has expressed on many occasions, along with being unable or unwilling to understand that some people don't agree with that logic.

Does that mantra automatically mean we have suddenly become a police state? No, of course not. It is one step closer, though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There isn't a leap.

"I'm kind of interested in what those who were against the FBI accessing a terrorist's phone are really worried about. What do they think they have about them that is SO interesting that the security services would be keen to take a look?"

is simply a long-winded way of saying

"Nothing to hide, nothing to fear".

This is a point of view that Livia has expressed on many occasions, along with being unable or unwilling to understand that some people don't agree with that logic.

Does that mantra automatically mean we have suddenly become a police state? No, of course not. It is one step closer, though.

hardly,its a specific operation aimed at saving lives

good luck to them

[Tom4784]

That ius quite the leap there from getting info from a murderers phone to save lives and thus becoming a police state


:joker:

If you think this is just about a terrorist's phone then you are naive. It's about setting a precedent.

It's a slippery slope, if we compromise our rights for a false sense of security then we'll be taken advantage of in the future since all they'll need to do is link something to terrorists and we'll be all too happy to throw our rights away.

There's going to be nothing of use on that phone, I'm calling it now. The terrorists behind that attack were likely acting alone and the FBI know that, they just want to set a precedent so they can do it in future.

[Cherie]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

[arista]

I don't care if the fbi can unlock phones. I'm glad! The quicker they stop these vile creatures the better!


You Are Most Wise

[Crimson Dynamo]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

:nono:


because next step its North Korea


The family member must die for our freedom

[arista]

If you think this is just about a terrorist's phone then you are naive. It's about setting a precedent.

It's a slippery slope, if we compromise our rights for a false sense of security then we'll be taken advantage of in the future since all they'll need to do is link something to terrorists and we'll be all too happy to throw our rights away.

There's going to be nothing of use on that phone, I'm calling it now. The terrorists behind that attack were likely acting alone and the FBI know that, they just want to set a precedent so they can do it in future.


A New Case
FBI are trying to stop a Nuke Bomb in White Van
going off. The Data is on the iPhone

Under Dezzy's Logic that Nuke will Destroy the USA City its in.

As Dezzy wants phones Kept Locked.


Feck Me
Whatever Next

[Tom4784]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

Apples and oranges, dear. One has nothing to do with the other.

You can't use the threat of a missing person to justify potentially invading everyone's privacy. You can, however, do pretty much anything as long as you link terrorism to it because it's the ol' saying at work, you can use 9/11 and/or terrorism to justify anything in American politics.

[Tom4784]

A New Case
FBI are trying to stop a Nuke Bomb in White Van
going off. The Data is on the iPhone

Under Dezzy's Logic that Nuke will Destroy the USA City its in.

As Dezzy wants phones Kept Locked.


Feck Me
Whatever Next

Using a specific hypothetical situation that fits the world of films more than real life as a counter argument is just silly, more so than usual coming from you.

[arista]

..it isn't that black and white though, there is nothing to say that being able to access a phone owned by a terrorist will give any valuable information and why would Apple as a company who has made the privacy of their phones a huge feature as to why people choose them over others, then take away that feature and security for everyone..I mean you're a businessman Arista, you should understand that surely...would you compromise your own product in such a way so that people may be less inclined to purchase it...



..and yes, it's been a bit of a bittersweet victory, Apple winning the court case but finding out what the weaknesses are that they hadn't been aware of but now that they are, they can address that...


Yes Ammi
Samsung are better

Feck Apple
Stopping Terrorism
is America's Right

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am quite sure Donald McTrump would say

hack the phone and lets make America great again

he is a man of action

[billy123]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?Of course you would Cherie but in making that an option what you are doing in reality is hanging up a sign to all the worlds cyber criminals that says hey this door isnt locked properly we left a way in for you!! free bank details,personal data needed for identity theft,where you live,where your kids go to school even the keys to your car (some car makers are scrapping keys in favour of the RFID chip)
You can be sure making a way in for anyone (even Apple themselves) people with bad intentions will find it almost instantly. The amount of crime it would facilitate and danger it would put people in would dwarf any good that could come of creating a back door to let the FBI in.

[Cherie]

Apples and oranges, dear. One has nothing to do with the other.

You can't use the threat of a missing person to justify potentially invading everyone's privacy. You can, however, do pretty much anything as long as you link terrorism to it because it's the ol' saying at work, you can use 9/11 and/or terrorism to justify anything in American politics.


It all boils down to gaining information, we can't pick and choose which scenarios we "give up our freedom for"

[Cherie]

Of course you would Cherie but in making that an option what you are doing in reality is hanging up a sign to all the worlds cyber criminals that says hey this door isnt locked properly we left a way in for you!! free bank details,personal data needed for identity theft,where you live,where your kids go to school even the keys to your car (some car makers are scrapping keys in favour of the RFD chip)
You can be sure making a way in for anyone (even Apple themselves) people with bad intentions will find it almost instantly. The amount of crime it would facilitate and danger it would put people in would dwarf any good that could come of creating a back door to let the fbi in.

We are up **** creek either way :laugh:

[arista]

Using a specific hypothetical situation that fits the world of films more than real life as a counter argument is just silly, more so than usual coming from you.


Its Not Silly Dezzy
anything can happen.

Nothing to do with Film Scripts

You must Answer
if a iPhone that has Data to Stop a
Terrorist from setting off his
Nuke Bomb in a White Van

Under Your Solid Logic
No you can not look into that phone
Millions Will Die


You must change your View if
the situation becomes so Deadly


Either you want to Stop Terrorists
or you do not want to bother


I am Sorry to be So Crude
Please Reply Dezzy

Make My Day......,

[arista]

I am quite sure Donald McTrump would say

hack the phone and lets make America great again

he is a man of action



Yes
Changes are on the Way

Bring Him On.

[Kizzy]

I'm kind of interested in knowing what the point of 'civil liberties' is?

[Tom4784]

Its Not Silly Dezzy
anything can happen.

Nothing to do with Film Scripts

You must Answer
if a iPhone that has Data to Stop a
Terrorist from setting off his
Nuke Bomb in a White Van

Under Your Solid Logic
No you can not look into that phone
Millions Will Die


You must change your View if
the situation becomes so Deadly


Either you want to Stop Terrorists
or you do not want to bother


I am Sorry to be So Crude
Please Reply Dezzy

Make My Day......,

No because that scenario is dumb as ****. How would IS get their hands on a nuke? How would they manage to smuggle said nuke into America undetected. Why, after all that, would they be stupid enough to leave everything that's needed to foil their plot on a phone that the FBI can hack?

It's dumb and I refuse to take your B-movie action plot seriously.

[billy123]

We are up **** creek either way :laugh:Pretty much :laugh: I will have a look for a video i saw the other day. Even Apple call it dancing on the edge of the Volcano They barely stay ahead of the security game when it comes to their software (and they are pretty damn good at it) They admit even if they created a way in that only they knew it would be game over everyones security gone.

[Tom4784]

It all boils down to gaining information, we can't pick and choose which scenarios we "give up our freedom for"

Well no, you're oversimplifying to suit your own argument to such a point that it's no longer factual.

Looking through a missing person's phone to find them is completely different to using the excuse of terrorism to potentially allow the government to hack whoever they please.

If you can't see the difference between the two scenarios then there's nothing I can do to help you.

[DemolitionRed]

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

And anyway, if they ban or hack into encrypted messages, terrorists will just start using steganography and there are loads of apps http://www.jjtc.com/Steganography/tools.html. So we sacrifice encryption, allowing the not so good people a back door into our data, whilst doing absolutely nothing to stop terrorists using steganography and other methods to communicate in secret.

[arista]

No because that scenario is dumb as ****. How would IS get their hands on a nuke? How would they manage to smuggle said nuke into America undetected. Why, after all that, would they be stupid enough to leave everything that's needed to foil their plot on a phone that the FBI can hack?

It's dumb and I refuse to take your B-movie action plot seriously.


OK you can not Stand the Heat
thank for Your Reply.

Getting a Nuke to go off
in a Van, inside America - would not be
public knowledge
How Isis get one , built, is through Criminals
that trade parts for Big Cash
and no concern for it use.
Getting into into USA via Canada
Any Size Bomb can be set by a mobile phone signal
Fact

[DemolitionRed]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

The position of any mobile phone which is switched on and connected to any network (wifi or phone) as long as you know the phones SIM id then you can find it. I would recommend all parents either keep info of their childs SIM or have a 'find my phone' app connected to their phone.

You can follow the tracks of someone by using triangulation from cell towers and that will tell you where their phone has been and when.

The ridiculous thing is, even Apple can't by-pass encryption because they never built a back door in the first place. The reason a back door (hook) has never been made is because it would completely destroy all security in online banking. Presently, the most secure way of doing your banking is to do it by phone connected to a phone network and not a wifi network because the whole process has end to end encryption. Allowing and making a hook would be opening the door to every other criminal in the world.

If this is ever allowed, the banks will immediately switch off all mobile banking, they would have to. It doesn't matter what the government say in response to this nonsense, they are reliant on people not understanding how encryption works and what will happen if and when hooks fall into the wrong hands.

[DemolitionRed]

It is unclear who helped the FBI access the phone and what was stored on the device.

No its not! Its a company in Israel who specialize in this sort of stuff. The thing is, this company is so secure that America will of had to send the phone to them and the company will of sent back information that was stored on that phone. This is why its taken as long as it has.

[arista]

It is unclear who helped the FBI access the phone and what was stored on the device.

No its not! Its a company in Israel who specialize in this sort of stuff. The thing is, this company is so secure that America will of had to send the phone to them and the company will of sent back information that was stored on that phone. This is why its taken as long as it has.


It does not matter who helped the FBI
it is not going public.


Thats fine

[arista]

I'm kind of interested in knowing what the point of 'civil liberties' is?


Thats for Non Terrorists

[Tom4784]

OK you can not Stand the Heat
thank for Your Reply.

Getting a Nuke to go off
in a Van, inside America - would not be
public knowledge
How Isis get one , built, is through Criminals
that trade parts for Big Cash
and no concern for it use.
Getting into into USA via Canada
Any Size Bomb can be set by a mobile phone signal
Fact

You've watched too much 24, nothing you say has any basis on reality.

You can't buy Uranium in the blackest of black markets and nuclear materials are watched over with a keen eye. You can't just go out and buy nuclear material and making a nuclear bomb isn't exactly something that anyone could do. you need nuclear scientists with the correct equipment on top of the materials and none of IS' territories even have Nuclear capabilities.

There's no way to smuggle a nuke into the US, to suggest it could be done through Canada is dumb.

Finally, how would the FBI get hold of the phone before the attack happens? That kind of evidence only comes to light after the fact, not before. Nothing about your fantastical scenario would ever happen in real life. It's dumb beyond belief.

[arista]

You've watched too much 24, nothing you say has any basis on reality.

You can't buy Uranium in the blackest of black markets and nuclear materials are watched over with a keen eye. You can't just go out and buy nuclear material and making a nuclear bomb isn't exactly something that anyone could do. you need nuclear scientists with the correct equipment on top of the materials and none of IS' territories even have Nuclear capabilities.

There's no way to smuggle a nuke into the US, to suggest it could be done through Canada is dumb.

Finally, how would the FBI get hold of the phone before the attack happens? That kind of evidence only comes to light after the fact, not before. Nothing about your fantastical scenario would ever happen in real life. It's dumb beyond belief.


Any Parts can be shipped in,
Isis then use White Folks
because its in Parts
and its not detected
once in USA its assembled,


nothing Dumb about that , Dezzy


24 was Great on Sky1HD

[Tom4784]

Any Parts can be shipped in,
Isis then use White Folks
because its in Parts
and its not detected
once in USA its assembled,


nothing Dumb about that , Dezzy


24 was Great on Sky1HD

Yes, because Uranium is something that's easily smuggled.....

[arista]

Yes, because Uranium is something that's easily smuggled.....


Yes it can be under something else "Sealed"
its not complex for professional handlers

[arista]

"Finally, how would the FBI get hold of the phone before the attack happens? "

My point is If they did
you say do not unlock it.

[DemolitionRed]

The problem with uranium is, its disproportionately heavy for its volume and so transporting any quantity is difficult and because uranium is highly radio active, it has to be packed in lead which is also incredibly heavy. You'd have trouble picking up your bag in an airport without it falling out through the bottom and you would have difficulty getting through any customs because its radio active signature makes it easily detectable.

[DemolitionRed]

What if the terrorists use throw away phones like they did on 'The Wire'?

[arista]

What if the terrorists use throw away phones like they did on 'The Wire'?


They may do
but if Data is on a 2nd proper iPhone
that will lead agents to stop a crew getting ready,
our own Dezzy says its not to be Unlocked

[arista]

The problem with uranium is, its disproportionately heavy for its volume and so transporting any quantity is difficult and because uranium is highly radio active, it has to be packed in lead which is also incredibly heavy. You'd have trouble picking up your bag in an airport without it falling out through the bottom and you would have difficulty getting through any customs because its radio active signature makes it easily detectable.

Sure it has to be Sealed in a heavy machine order
Sealed air tight.

Not Airports
Ships deliver to Ports

[DemolitionRed]

Sure it has to be Sealed in a heavy machine order
Sealed air tight.

Not Airports
Ships deliver to Ports

Keep in mind, every single item that crosses a shipping border is checked at the other end.

If someone wanted to smuggle uranium onto US soil then they'd find a way, there's no denying that but we are starting to get into some fairly far fetched scenarios here.

[arista]

Keep in mind, every single item that crosses a shipping border is checked at the other end.

If someone wanted to smuggle uranium onto US soil then they'd find a way, there's no denying that but we are starting to get into some fairly far fetched scenarios here.


Of Course.

The only reason I had to Expand
was for Dezzy
who will say no to Unlock a Mobile phone
that may have data to stop a Nuke in a Van
Attack.

Most folks say at that point all data is needed
(saying yes to unlock a iPhone)
to stop the Evil Terrorist Nuke Attack
inside America

[Marsh.]

They may do
but if Data is on a 2nd proper iPhone
that will lead agents to stop a crew getting ready,
our own Dezzy says its not to be Unlocked

What would be the point of the throw away phone if they're going to hold the same information on another iPhone to keep? :umm2:

[arista]

What would be the point of the throw away phone if they're going to hold the same information on another iPhone to keep? :umm2:


Because other phones are used just for Collections
not in public places.

The Whole Point is Dezzy Point Blank
says no to unlocking a Terrorists iPhone.

[Tom4784]

The fact you have to keep digging yourself out of holes shows how silly, unrealistic and illogical your little scenario is.

[Marsh.]

Because other phones are used just for Collections
not in public places.

The Whole Point is Dezzy Point Blank
says no to unlocking a Terrorists iPhone.


You've not actually answered my question. :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

If this ever comes to pass, which it won't, terrorists and criminals will simply use throw away phones.

This isn't about terrorism, at least I don't believe it is. This is about data mining which is worth many £billions.

[arista]

The fact you have to keep digging yourself out of holes shows how silly, unrealistic and illogical your little scenario is.


Anything can happen.
I would think if that story happened
you view may change
thats the only point Dezzy.

Respect To You.

[Tom4784]

Because other phones are used just for Collections
not in public places.

The Whole Point is Dezzy Point Blank
says no to unlocking a Terrorists iPhone.


Do not dare to speak for me when you don't even have a solid grasp on reality.

As I've explained a thousand times, this ain't about terrorism, the FBI knows they won't find anything on the phone, they just want to set a precedent for the future so they can do it when they please to whoever they please.

Like I said before, they're just using Terrorism as an excuse to invade people's privacy.

[arista]

You've not actually answered my question. :laugh:


Because other phones are used just for Collections
not in public places.
(Thats the type that are chucked away.)

So other longer data could be stored on a iPhone
away from the Terrorist building
and if someone spotted a person they thought
was a Terrorist visiting a home
of someone else
Police could rush in collecting his iPhone
after he shot a police man
and return fire killed the Evil Terrorist
but left the important phone

[arista]

Do not dare to speak for me when you don't even have a solid grasp on reality.

As I've explained a thousand times, this ain't about terrorism, the FBI knows they won't find anything on the phone, they just want to set a precedent for the future so they can do it when they please to whoever they please.

Like I said before, they're just using Terrorism as an excuse to invade people's privacy.

Sorry.
Not my intention.

But it was a Phone from a Terrorist
that shocked America
as they shot so many with their machine guns.
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/2/18/447915/default/v2/calif1-1-736x414.jpg
The massacre in December that killed 14 people.

[user104658]

There could be aliens, guys. Evil aliens that want to kill people - and the information could be in some guy's WhatsApp messages. The only sensible option I can think of, is for everyone's messages to be sent through the CIA where they can be scanned for key words and flagged for alien activity.

If you're not an alien sympathiser you've got nothing to hide so why are you so scared? Hmm? What's your problem? Bit suspicious if you ask me, you probably have a phone full of alien kiddy porn, otherwise you would be willing - nay, HAPPY, for your private communications to be available. You closet terrorist.

[kirklancaster]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

[user104658]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

I'd imagine they probably have 30 to 40 high-yield warheads and at least one stealth bomber.

There was actually a tunnel found around 40 miles from the Mexican border and it was the EXACT shape of a stealth bomber, so one probably just flew through that. No one would ever know because they are entirely invisible, and even if someone DID see them, they would be instantly vapourized in nuclear fire. Sooo.

[DemolitionRed]

Government agents manage to lose 8 nuclear weapons and they want us to trust them with our personal information?!?!

[Tom4784]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

Nah, it's a scenario that only happens in films. Your whole post relies on the fact that those weapons are actually missing, you see governments don't tend to leave loose ends when it comes to nukes. They don't just write off bombs that could end the world, shockingly enough.

Chances are those nukes have already been recovered and/or destroyed.

[Kizzy]

Or sold...

[DemolitionRed]

Or sold... What a scary possibility.

[DemolitionRed]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything :whistle:

[user104658]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything :whistle:

Hush now, it's well established that Kirk is TiBB's resident Polymath.

[bots]

If a terrorist group has the will and the money, it can get its hands on WMD's. It doesn't have to be a nuke, a chemical or biological weapon will be just as devastating, and almost impossible to trace.

However, that doesn't give the fbi the right to take our freedoms away. I think there is a principle at stake and we must hold on to our freedoms and democracy at these times, when we are most tested, or we wll lose them forever.

[arista]

Or sold...


Yes Cash
moves these products
Nothing do with a Film Script At All.



Bang On Right Kizzy

Having a Bunker
is good for the Worlds Future

[arista]

Hush now, it's well established that Kirk is TiBB's resident Polymath.


How Nice

[lostalex]

Government agents manage to lose 8 nuclear weapons and they want us to trust them with our personal information?!?!

Do you trust Apple or any other International tech company any more than the US government?

[kirklancaster]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything :whistle:

'Sapientia Et Veritas' dear girl, 'Sapientia Et Veritas'.

You should try a little of both in your next posts. :whistle::whistle:

[kirklancaster]

Nah, it's a scenario that only happens in films. Your whole post relies on the fact that those weapons are actually missing, you see governments don't tend to leave loose ends when it comes to nukes. They don't just write off bombs that could end the world, shockingly enough.

Chances are those nukes have already been recovered and/or destroyed.

As ALWAYS - my post relies on nothing but FACTS.

ALL governments LIE to the people, and only admit the lies when they have no other alternative, and it is TOTALLY illogical to contend that the very SAME government who have spent years DENYING losing nukes to cover their embarrassment, then FIND those lost nukes but FAIL to publicise that fact.

No - those USA nukes were lost, and remain unaccounted for, as are the unknown number of nukes 'lost' by the Soviets during the collapse of their 'Empire'.

As for; "It's a scenario that only happens in films", I will say only that 'Life is often stranger than fiction', as attested by the incident of the U.S.S. Scorpion in 1968 - a very mysteroious case which has never been satisfactorily explained and is worthy of a Hollywood Blockbuster film script.

"While returning to home base in Norfolk, Virginia, the U.S.S. Scorpion, a nuclear attack submarine, mysteriously sank about 400 miles to the southwest of the Azores islands. In addition to the tragic loss of all 99 crewmembers, the Scorpion was carrying two unspecified nuclear weapons—either anti-submarine missiles or torpedoes that were tipped with nuclear warheads. These could yield up to 250 kilotons explosive power (depending which kind of weapon was used)"

[user104658]

ALL governments LIE to the people, and only admit the lies when they have no other alternative, and it is TOTALLY illogical to contend that the very SAME government who have spent years DENYING losing nukes to cover their embarrassment, then FIND those lost nukes but FAIL to publicise that fact.


Nah, it's entirely logical to assume that a government that has lied about losing nukes would keep it hush-hush if/when they recovered them. Come on, kirk.

"We haven't lost any nukes."
"Honest, all of our nukes are accounted for."
"Seriously! We have never even come close to losing a nuclear warhead"
"We honestly know where every single one is at all times. "

...

"Hey guys! We found a nuke! Remember we said we hadn't lost any? Well, actually we did but we've found it now so it's OK.... ... ... Other nukes? Oh no, it was just that one. We have never lost any other nukes, honest."

Tl;dr: announcing the recovery of a nuke requires an admission that one was lost in the first place. It's entirely logical to assume that they would say nothing.

[user104658]

'Sapientia Et Veritas' dear girl, 'Sapientia Et Veritas'.

You should try a little of both in your next posts. :whistle::whistle:
Humilitas non vanitas est, Kirk, you are a Christian after all :joker:.

[kirklancaster]

Nah, it's entirely logical to assume that a government that has lied about losing nukes would keep it hush-hush if/when they recovered them. Come on, kirk.

"We haven't lost any nukes."
"Honest, all of our nukes are accounted for."
"Seriously! We have never even come close to losing a nuclear warhead"
"We honestly know where every single one is at all times. "

...

"Hey guys! We found a nuke! Remember we said we hadn't lost any? Well, actually we did but we've found it now so it's OK.... ... ... Other nukes? Oh no, it was just that one. We have never lost any other nukes, honest."

Tl;dr: announcing the recovery of a nuke requires an admission that one was lost in the first place. It's entirely logical to assume that they would say nothing.

Your logic is beyond argument T.S. - IF those authorities had CONTINUED to deny that they had ever lost those nukes, but they did not maintain those false denials after being FORCED to finally ADMIT to losing them years afterwards.

For example;

The US Navy DENIED for 15 years that an 'A-4E SKYHAWK attack plane carrying a 1 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR BOMB had "rolled off the deck of the U.S.S. Ticonderoga and fell into the Pacific Ocean" (:shrug: You could not make this up)

In 1980, though the US authorities did finally admit the loss of the Skyhawk and bomb, and also that NEITHER had ever been recovered, they still continued to LIE about the incident, in claiming that it had happened in 'deep sea' some 500 miles from land, when it actually occured only 80 miles off Japan's Ryuku island chain.

[DemolitionRed]

:bored:Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare

[user104658]

Your logic is beyond argument T.S. - IF those authorities had CONTINUED to deny that they had ever lost those nukes, but they did not maintain those false denials after being FORCED to finally ADMIT to losing them years afterwards.

For example;

The US Navy DENIED for 15 years that an 'A-4E SKYHAWK attack plane carrying a 1 MEGATON THERMONUCLEAR BOMB had "rolled off the deck of the U.S.S. Ticonderoga and fell into the Pacific Ocean" (:shrug: You could not make this up)

In 1980, though the US authorities did finally admit the loss of the Skyhawk and bomb, and also that NEITHER had ever been recovered, they still continued to LIE about the incident, in claiming that it had happened in 'deep sea' some 500 miles from land, when it actually occured only 80 miles off Japan's Ryuku island chain.
Yes but, as all governments do, they would be operating under the (all but certain) assumption that most people forget about these things alarmingly quickly. Announcing that something has been "found" years later, then, only reminds people that it was lost in the first place.

[kirklancaster]

:bored:Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare

You should know dear.

But let me add in the Queen's English, that only a fool persists in posting without checking their sources OR their grammar. :wavey:

[Kizzy]

You should know dear.

But let me add in the Queen's English, that only a fool persists in posting without checking their sources OR their grammar. :wavey:

Says the guy who posts in a dead language :/

[Tom4784]

Yes but, as all governments do, they would be operating under the (all but certain) assumption that most people forget about these things alarmingly quickly. Announcing that something has been "found" years later, then, only reminds people that it was lost in the first place.

Pretty much, there's also the fact that if they didn't inform anyone that they've found anything then they can do with the lost objects as they please.

The fact that these supposed lost weapons would somehow find their way into IS hands without detection decades later is far more unrealistic.

[arista]

Pretty much, there's also the fact that if they didn't inform anyone that they've found anything then they can do with the lost objects as they please.

The fact that these supposed lost weapons would somehow find their way into IS hands without detection decades later is far more unrealistic.


Of course not
it will go from many sellers
then one will sale direct to Isis
for Bigger Cash.


Making Money is the key, Dezzy

[kirklancaster]

Says the guy who posts in a dead language :/

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.

[arista]

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.


Long Live Kirk

[Cherie]

Up until yesterday I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a guy could get on a plane with a fake suicide belt made out of phone cases covered in cloth, in these times unrealistic scenarios can quickly become reality.

[kirklancaster]

Long Live Kirk

Thank you Arista. 'You Are Most Wise'. :hee:

[kirklancaster]

Up until yesterday I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a guy could get on a plane with a fake suicide belt made out of phone cases covered in cloth, in these times unrealistic scenarios can quickly become reality.

:laugh: EXACTLY Cherie.

[user104658]

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.

So it's true! Latin is the preferred spoken tongue in those "secret societies" I've heard about :suspect:.

[kirklancaster]

So it's true! Latin is the preferred spoken tongue in those "secret societies" I've heard about :suspect:.

:laugh:

[user104658]

Up until yesterday I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a guy could get on a plane with a fake suicide belt made out of phone cases covered in cloth, in these times unrealistic scenarios can quickly become reality.

Well no... no one would stop him getting on with some cloth and phone cases in his hand luggage. I imagine he probably cobbled it together in the bathroom, rather than taking it on assembled. I mean look at the picture, it looks like it took about 30 seconds :joker:.

So, not unrealistic that it COULD happen. Utterly bizarre that it did happen, I suppose.

[billy123]

Well this thread unsurprisingly seems to have been completely derailed after the right wing Gestapo style government lovers were shown up as talking bollocks. (as usual)

The argument that everybody should give up their right to privacy wasn't exactly their shiniest moment :joker:

[Cherie]

Well no... no one would stop him getting on with some cloth and phone cases in his hand luggage. I imagine he probably cobbled it together in the bathroom, rather than taking it on assembled. I mean look at the picture, it looks like it took about 30 seconds :joker:.

So, not unrealistic that it COULD happen. Utterly bizarre that it did happen, I suppose.



The phone cases would have shown up in his hand luggage as a square objects on the X-ray screens so his suitcase should have been opened, and apparently he had cables as well so they should have been removed if nothing else, and the point is it would have been assumed to be an unrealistic scenario for this to have happened the day before yesterday, it has now been reported he has used fake passports in the past and was banned from entering Cyprus so how he was allowed to have a passport is also beyond belief

[Tom4784]

Up until yesterday I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a guy could get on a plane with a fake suicide belt made out of phone cases covered in cloth, in these times unrealistic scenarios can quickly become reality.

Phone cases and fabric tends to be easier to smuggle than nuclear material but okay.

[Cherie]

Phone cases and fabric tends to be easier to smuggle than nuclear material but okay.

But used to hijack a plane is pretty unrealistic right? as being gunned down in a Parisian street in large numbers on a Friday night? Or being slaughtered on a Tunisian beach by a lone guy dressed as a tourist who arrived on a boat, or Christian children being blown up in a playground, all scenarios straight out of a Hollywood blockbuster right?

[user104658]

But used to hijack a plane is pretty unrealistic right? as being gunned down in a Parisian street in large numbers on a Friday night? Or being slaughtered on a Tunisian beach by a lone guy dressed as a tourist who arrived on a boat, or Christian children being blown up in a playground, all scenarios straight out of a Hollywood blockbuster right?

Wouldn't watch it tbh, sounds depressing.

[bots]

If one looks at this logically, accessing a dead terrorists phone to see what he had planned to do next doesn't make sense, he is more than likely dead because he carried out the planned act.

It may provide information on other cell members, but in this particular case, they appeared to be working in isolation, so nothing to be gained there.

Also, something to add, once you are dead, you lose all rights to privacy, so the FBI can do what they want with your phone. If you are still alive, its a different matter, and they should go through the correct legal procedures to obtain it on a case by case basis.

The point I am making is that the highest value information comes from the living, not the dead, and that's where security forces should be channeling their efforts

[Tom4784]

But used to hijack a plane is pretty unrealistic right? as being gunned down in a Parisian street in large numbers on a Friday night? Or being slaughtered on a Tunisian beach by a lone guy dressed as a tourist who arrived on a boat, or Christian children being blown up in a playground, all scenarios straight out of a Hollywood blockbuster right?

Again, that has little to do with the discussion of the possibility of a WMD being acquired by IS and being smuggled into and used against the US.

To compare someone getting their hands on a gun and saying it's as realistic as terrorists going nuclear is just plain dumb. Anyone can get their hands on a gun, but nuclear weapons are.....less available.

It's the same thing with the bombs used in attacks, they are often home made. You can't really make a homemade nuke.

IS somehow acquiring 'lost' WMDs, having the capacity and resources to ACTUALLY use them and smuggling them into the US is pretty much an impossible scenario.

[Marsh.]

Up until yesterday I thought it would be unrealistic to assume that a guy could get on a plane with a fake suicide belt made out of phone cases covered in cloth, in these times unrealistic scenarios can quickly become reality.

So a guy with phone cases stuck to him and bits of cloth got on a plane?

Alert the authorities. :joker:

[arista]

Phone cases and fabric tends to be easier to smuggle than nuclear material but okay.


Yes Dezzy
thats why Terrorists are using Sea Shipping
Like you say they should get caught,


But if its in a new case that Sealed
under Metals
it may get through.

Thats all I am saying.


Not From Any Movie.

[DemolitionRed]

Yes Dezzy
thats why Terrorists are using Sea Shipping
Like you say they should get caught,


But if its in a new case that Sealed
under Metals
it may get through.

Thats all I am saying.


Not From Any Movie.

Its ridiculous and I'll tell you why. Building a nuclear bomb takes many years, involves dozens of top scientists in that field and costs billions. Yes, they could steal one from somewhere like Pakistan but that would have to be either dismantled and re-assembled by a team of expert scientists who could take years to put it back together when it reached its destination or it would have to be transported complete and therefore easily detectable.

Why on earth would they go to all that trouble when they can easily make and let off a dirty bomb?

[arista]

Its ridiculous and I'll tell you why. Building a nuclear bomb takes many years, involves dozens of top scientists in that field and costs billions. Yes, they could steal one from somewhere like Pakistan but that would have to be either dismantled and re-assembled by a team of expert scientists who could take years to put it back together when it reached its destination or it would have to be transported complete and therefore easily detectable.

Why on earth would they go to all that trouble when they can easily make and let off a dirty bomb?


Yes it takes a long time I agree DR.
but no one knows if any have got through a year ago,
Experts work for Big Cash
and they care not about whats going , sadly

[Cherie]

Again, that has little to do with the discussion of the possibility of a WMD being acquired by IS and being smuggled into and used against the US.

To compare someone getting their hands on a gun and saying it's as realistic as terrorists going nuclear is just plain dumb. Anyone can get their hands on a gun, but nuclear weapons are.....less available.

It's the same thing with the bombs used in attacks, they are often home made. You can't really make a homemade nuke.

IS somehow acquiring 'lost' WMDs, having the capacity and resources to ACTUALLY use them and smuggling them into the US is pretty much an impossible scenario.


I'm not comparing anything, you are doing that yourself, I'm just pointing out scenarios that would have been passed off as unrealistic in the past like training as pilots and flying planes into buildings are now a reality, just because you think it's unrealistic and difficult to do doesn't mean someone with determination and intent can't do it at some point

[kirklancaster]

Its ridiculous and I'll tell you why. Building a nuclear bomb takes many years, involves dozens of top scientists in that field and costs billions. Yes, they could steal one from sowhere like Pakistan but that would have to be either dismantled and re-assembled by a team of expert scientists who could take years to put it back together when it reached its destination or it would have to be transported complete and therefore easily detectable.

Why on earth would they go to all that trouble when they can easily make and let off a dirty bomb?

IT IS NOT "RIDICULOUS" AT ALL - but the so-called FACTS in your post are. You are such an expert on everything it seems, but should check or update your sources because your post is non-factual and very misleading.

NOTHING would have to be "dismantled and re-assembled" and certainly not by a "team of expert scientists", and nor would it "take years to put it back together", and neither would it be "easily detectable" if it was "transported complete".

For DECADES, both the USA AND The SOVIET UNION have assembled 'mini-nukes' by a process known as 'TWO POINT LINEAR IMPLOSION' - a process which uses an alloy of PLUTONIUM and GALLIUM.

The USA built nukes by this method which fitted within an artillery shell which measured just 6.1" in diameter x 33.3" in length, and equalled 72 TONS of TNT when exploded in addition to the very fatal radiation.

MORE ALARMING, is the fact that in September 1997, former SOVIET NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, General Aleksander Lebed claimed that the former Soviet Union had manufactured FAR MORE DESTRUCTIVE mini nukes in the form of a CASED NUCLEAR BOMB which had the appearance of a SMALL SUITCASE measuring just 24" x 16" x 8" inches, and each had the power of 1 KILOTON or 1000 TONS OF TNT.

These 'Suitcase Bombs' were designed to be detonated by 'one man', needed only 30 minutes notice, and had been distributed to members of the GRU (foreign military intelligence directorate).

LEBED SHOCKED THE WORLD BY CLAIMING THAT OVER 100 OF THESE SUITCASE BOMBS HAD 'GONE MISSING' DURING THE COLLAPSE OF THE FORMER SOVIET UNION.

I for one, have not suggested that ISIS or any other terrorist group HAVE BUILT a Nuke or ACQUIRED a Nuke, or that they have SMUGGLED one in to the USA.

What I DID post, are TWO IRREFUTABLE SETS OF FACTS; that Nukes have gone 'missing', and that illegal tunnels from Mexico to the USA have been discovered - and I posted these TWO FACTS along with those above - in order to put a stop to the unfair and BASELESS RIDICULING of Arista's perfectly feasible hypothesis concerning terrorists detonating a nuke within the USA.

[Tom4784]

I'm not comparing anything, you are doing that yourself, I'm just pointing out scenarios that would have been passed off as unrealistic in the past like training as pilots and flying planes into buildings are now a reality, just because you think it's unrealistic and difficult to do doesn't mean someone with determination and intent can't do it at some point

By 'pointing them out' you are comparing them.

Hijacking a plane is far easier than acquiring nuclear materials, creating a nuke and smuggling it into the US to detonate.

Your previous examples are all doable but IS acquiring and using Nuclear technology is not likely at all.

It's time to drop the nuclear angle, it's dumb, juvenile and it's based on nothing but fiction. It ain't gonna happen so it's pointless wasting time discussing it.

[Kizzy]

IT IS NOT "RIDICULOUS" AT ALL - but the so-called FACTS in your post are. You are such an expert on everything it seems, but should check or update your sources because your post is non-factual and very misleading.

NOTHING would have to be "dismantled and re-assembled" and certainly not by a "team of expert scientists", and nor would it "take years to put it back together", and neither would it be "easily detectable" if it was "transported complete".

For DECADES, both the USA AND The SOVIET UNION have assembled 'mini-nukes' by a process known as 'TWO POINT LINEAR IMPLOSION' - a process which uses an alloy of PLUTONIUM and GALLIUM.

The USA built nukes by this method which fitted within an artillery shell which measured just 6.1" in diameter x 33.3" in length, and equalled 72 TONS of TNT when exploded in addition to the very fatal radiation.

MORE ALARMING, is the fact that in September 1997, former SOVIET NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, General Aleksander Lebed claimed that the former Soviet Union had manufactured FAR MORE DESTRUCTIVE mini nukes in the form of a CASED NUCLEAR BOMB which had the appearance of a SMALL SUITCASE measuring just 24" x 16" x 8" inches, and each had the power of 1 KILOTON or 1000 TONS OF TNT.

These 'Suitcase Bombs' were designed to be detonated by 'one man', needed only 30 minutes notice, and had been distributed to members of the GRU (foreign military intelligence directorate).

LEBED SHOCKED THE WORLD BY CLAIMING THAT OVER 100 OF THESE SUITCASE BOMBS HAD 'GONE MISSING' DURING THE COLLAPSE OF THE FORMER SOVIET UNION.

I for one, have not suggested that ISIS or any other terrorist group HAVE BUILT a Nuke or ACQUIRED a Nuke, or that they have SMUGGLED one in to the USA.

What I DID post, are TWO IRREFUTABLE SETS OF FACTS; that Nukes have gone 'missing', and that illegal tunnels from Mexico to the USA have been discovered - and I posted these TWO FACTS along with those above - in order to put a stop to the unfair and BASELESS RIDICULING of Arista's perfectly feasible hypothesis concerning terrorists detonating a nuke within the USA.

Where are the checkable facts for your post?

[Cherie]

By 'pointing them out' you are comparing them.

Hijacking a plane is far easier than acquiring nuclear materials, creating a nuke and smuggling it into the US to detonate.

Your previous examples are all doable but IS acquiring and using Nuclear technology is not likely at all.

It's time to drop the nuclear angle, it's dumb, juvenile and it's based on nothing but fiction. It ain't gonna happen so it's pointless wasting time discussing it.


You have spent more time on it than anyone in the thread

[Kizzy]

Do airport scanners have Geiger counters in them?

[kirklancaster]

Where are the checkable facts for your post?

I researched this very subject recently for my book by googling. I suggest you can do the same. You are after all an expert at googling aren't you?

I do wonder though why you persist in always responding to my posts in the negative - especially when most of my posts are not specifically addressed to you but to other members? As with this one for example.

[Kizzy]

I do love a good google. It's nothing personal I would've said same to anyone, as it seemed a bit hypocritical to berate someone for not citing sources and then doing the same.

[arista]

[Harvard researcher warns Isis may be on
the brink of using nuclear weapons: Chilling report
highlights risk of dirty bombs, power station
sabotage and device detonation]

[Detonation of an actual nuclear bomb ]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3516207/Harvard-researcher-warns-ISIS-brink-using-nuclear-weapons.html#ixzz44RGlw0fj

Feck me a Nuke Bomb


Its hard to stop
a Blank Van with a Nuke in the back
in any nation,
& after going off.
Its Harder to find out who did it?

[Tom4784]

You have spent more time on it than anyone in the thread

Because it's part of the debate dear and it's been debated to oblivion, not that it matters to you. Any chance to try and fail at a snipe I guess.

[Ammi]

If one looks at this logically, accessing a dead terrorists phone to see what he had planned to do next doesn't make sense, he is more than likely dead because he carried out the planned act.

It may provide information on other cell members, but in this particular case, they appeared to be working in isolation, so nothing to be gained there.

Also, something to add, once you are dead, you lose all rights to privacy, so the FBI can do what they want with your phone. If you are still alive, its a different matter, and they should go through the correct legal procedures to obtain it on a case by case basis.

The point I am making is that the highest value information comes from the living, not the dead, and that's where security forces should be channeling their efforts



..this is what I keep thinking, bitontheslide...if the FBI themselves are saying that they were acting completely alone and now obviously they're both dead...then what information would there be that could link to any terrorist cells because they weren't part of one..their determination doesn't quite make sense to me with this because it seems so contradictory...

[Cherie]

Because it's part of the debate dear and it's been debated to oblivion, not that it matters to you. Any chance to try and fail at a snipe I guess.

If people want to discuss it where is the problem, it's not your call to finish a discussion

[Cherie]

..this is what I keep thinking, bitontheslide...if the FBI themselves are saying that they were acting completely alone and now obviously they're both dead...then what information would there be that could link to any terrorist cells because they weren't part of one..their determination doesn't quite make sense to me with this because it seems so contradictory...

Isn't the key phrase there "they appear to be working in isolation", surely they have to follow it up to its conclusion even if they find nada, it would be pretty incompetent to just assume there is nothing on the phone

[Ammi]

Isn't the key phrase there "they appear to be working in isolation", surely they have to follow it up to its conclusion even if they find nada, it would be pretty incompetent to just assume there is nothing on the phone

...I think the phrasing by them was more 'no indications of being part of a network', Cherie..and no indications of being part of a wider network, leading to so much determination to access this particular phone, doesn't quite make sense to me...

[bots]

[Harvard researcher warns Isis may be on
the brink of using nuclear weapons: Chilling report
highlights risk of dirty bombs, power station
sabotage and device detonation]

[Detonation of an actual nuclear bomb ]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3516207/Harvard-researcher-warns-ISIS-brink-using-nuclear-weapons.html#ixzz44RGlw0fj

Feck me a Nuke Bomb


Its hard to stop
a Blank Van with a Nuke in the back
in any nation,
& after going off.
Its Harder to find out who did it?

Where is jack bauer when we need him :fist:

[Cherie]

...I think the phrasing by them was more 'no indications of being part of a network', Cherie..and no indications of being part of a wider network, leading to so much determination to access this particular phone, doesn't quite make sense to me...

Even if there was a small chance something was on the phone I would have thought they has a duty to follow it up, not sure how the FBI works, but leaving no stone unturned must be the basis for any investigation, how many dead ends are followed in an investigation of any kind

[AnnieK]

I'm with Cherie on this one, any information that could be held on the phone that could help the FBI or possibly give some information on how this atrocity was planned is surely a good thing? Many people lost their lives and families lost innocent loved ones. If it were me, I would want any and all avenues investigated to stop similar attacks happening. And if they find nothing, so what? At least they have conducted a thorough investigation. Apple will find the way they have broken the security and tighten it up anyway.

[Ammi]

Even if there was a small chance something was on the phone I would have thought they has a duty to follow it up, not sure how the FBI works, but leaving no stone unturned must be the basis for any investigation, how many dead ends are followed in an investigation of any kind

..I'm not sure that we're going to agree on this..:laugh:...'no indication' would mean no reason then to pursue this case with so much determination and then pursue the 'outside source' who have provided the 'back door' they wanted...it's an awful lot of effort for 'no indication' are my thoughts..there is no indication/none whatsoever but we HAVE TO have this/be able to do this on this particular phone...

[DemolitionRed]

Apple have experts working around the clock stopping criminal hackers having access to our information. Once they hand a master key over to UK government agents, they no longer have the power to stop expert criminals getting to our information. It becomes a technology battle because criminal hackers are just as clever as the ones presently working round the clock to stopping them.

[user104658]

Apple have experts working around the clock stopping criminal hackers having access to our information. Once they hand a master key over to UK government agents, they no longer have the power to stop expert criminals getting to our information. It becomes a technology battle because criminal hackers are just as clever as the ones presently working round the clock to stopping them.

This. People seem to be confused and think that people have an issue here with the authorities "invading terrorists privacy". No... any phone like that they hack into for infor will belong either to a dead person or one convicted of criminal activity, in which case their right to privacy is irrelevant.

Where the problem lies, is in making the jump from "it's OK for the authorities to try to access that information" and, "the phone manufacturers should PROVIDE the authorities with back-door security access to ALL phones, just incase".

There is a HUGE difference here.

[kirklancaster]

Even if there was a small chance something was on the phone I would have thought they has a duty to follow it up, not sure how the FBI works, but leaving no stone unturned must be the basis for any investigation, how many dead ends are followed in an investigation of any kind

I have to agree here. With some terrorists brazen enough to openly communicate on open media sites, it logically follows that most will communicate via phone, if only to their family, friends, and possibly, other terrorist sympathisers, and ALL these should be thoroughly investigated.

They not being 'part of a network' does not preclude them from being in contact with other terrorists.

[arista]

Because it's part of the debate dear and it's been debated to oblivion, not that it matters to you. Any chance to try and fail at a snipe I guess.


Our Own PM
is off to USA
as the USA President is having
a Nuke meeting.
As some Nuke Gear is not Protected well

Thats my whole point Dezzy
Get Up to date if you can.

[DemolitionRed]

This. People seem to be confused and think that people have an issue here with the authorities "invading terrorists privacy". No... any phone like that they hack into for infor will belong either to a dead person or one convicted of criminal activity, in which case their right to privacy is irrelevant.

Where the problem lies, is in making the jump from "it's OK for the authorities to try to access that information" and, "the phone manufacturers should PROVIDE the authorities with back-door security access to ALL phones, just incase".

There is a HUGE difference here.

I don't think our government have a clue about the complex implications behind opening a back door to internet security TS.

The investigatory laws that were somehow passed back in 2000 weren’t just used on dangerous criminal suspects but by local councils on parents trying to get their kids into schools out of their local catchment area and people watching live stream tv on their computers without a tv licence. When the **** eventually hit the fan and these new surveillance powers came into question, they discovered that only 1 per cent of applications to access data was requested for terrorist offenders, even after 9/11.

This isn’t about a war on terror, this is about having the right to snoop and collect information on the British public. Its about catching people for minor offences and its about predicting future elections and other political purposes. People pipe on about 'freedom of speech'...well if this new snooping charter is allowed to infringe on our liberty, then we will be three giant steps forward into losing our freedom of speech.

I for one, do not want to live in a police state and I don't believe for a moment that this British government is its peoples protectorate. Anyone who has taken the time to study neoliberal ideology will know that 'end game' is totalitarianism and so this proposed new snooping law is the golden egg that Cameron has been desperate to establish whilst he's PM.

Time to get rid of these neoliberal conservatives and take conservatism back to its classical routes.

[arista]

Dezzy please check any news headlines today
its all about my "So Called Movie Scripts"
can you please update us.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-idUSKCN0WW1R2

Nuclear terrorism fears loom over Obama's final atomic summit

My Simple Question :If the Data of a Nuke Attack in a Standard Van parked in a USA City
was on a Locked Phone in the USA
Everyone wants it stopped via getting that Data fast
Tick Tock

Not from any Movie

[Cherie]

"Sips tea"

[arista]

"Sips tea"


Bless You
Lady Cherie

[DemolitionRed]

Dezzy please check any news headlines today
its all about my "So Called Movie Scripts"
can you please update us.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-idUSKCN0WW1R2

Nuclear terrorism fears loom over Obama's final atomic summit

My Simple Question :If the Data of a Nuke Attack in a Standard Van parked in a USA City
was on a Locked Phone in the USA
Everyone wants it stopped via getting that Data fast
Tick Tock

Not from any Movie

Then they can get it! Do you really believe that MI5, GCHQ, MI6 or the FBI can't get their hands on this if they really need to? If you don't, then how do they carry out precise drone attacks. They don't do it on a snitch, they do it via satellite communication directly linked to someone using a mobile phone.

Ask yourself this though. Why are you allowed to walk into any supermarket in the UK and buy a throw away phone without leaving your details? Why is it, that in France, Italy and I believe Spain too, the purchase of a throw away phone requires either a full driving licence with picture or a passport. This means terrorists using throw away phones can be traced, unless of course you bought that phone in the UK where nobody has a clue who bought it. Why is such a simple security measure being overlooked? because this isn't about spying on terrorists; if it was, there is no way you could buy a TAP over here without ID.

[Tom4784]

Dezzy please check any news headlines today
its all about my "So Called Movie Scripts"
can you please update us.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-idUSKCN0WW1R2

Nuclear terrorism fears loom over Obama's final atomic summit

My Simple Question :If the Data of a Nuke Attack in a Standard Van parked in a USA City
was on a Locked Phone in the USA
Everyone wants it stopped via getting that Data fast
Tick Tock

Not from any Movie

Oh sweetheart, the point of newspapers and websites is to sell and get views respectively, the best way to do that is by generating fear. There's very little in the way of facts in that article, lots of hypotheticals and what ifs but nothing to suggest that your fantasy scenario has any real basis in reality. The only truly factual aspect of that article is that Obama's hosting a Summit and that this is his last year in office. The rest of rampant speculation and fear mongering.

Your little scenario is nothing more than 24 fan fiction, deal with it and accept it.

"Sips tea"

Try not to choke, dear.

[Cherie]

Oh sweetheart, the point of newspapers and websites is to sell and get views respectively, the best way to do that is by generating fear. There's very little in the way of facts in that article, lots of hypotheticals and what ifs but nothing to suggest that your fantasy scenario has any real basis in reality. The only truly factual aspect of that article is that Obama's hosting a Summit and that this is his last year in office. The rest of rampant speculation and fear mongering.

Your little scenario is nothing more than 24 fan fiction, deal with it and accept it.



Try not to choke, dear.


:joker:

[Marsh.]

"Sips tea"

Bless You
Lady Cherie

Try not to choke, dear.

:joker::joker::joker:

[bots]

The other side of the problem is this. If a terrorist knows that the information on his phone is not secure, he wont use it to hold details on his proposed attack. He will use another method, that is secure. There is always a way, and destroying consumer confidence in security is not the correct way

[arista]

[The only truly factual aspect of that article is that Obama's hosting a Summit and that this is his last year in office. The rest of rampant speculation and fear mongering. ]

Nuke Summit
Dezzy
Terrorist will Purchase Nukes
Sellers will sell

Its not Sky1HD 24

Its reality.

Thank you for your time

[Tom4784]

[The only truly factual aspect of that article is that Obama's hosting a Summit and that this is his last year in office. The rest of rampant speculation and fear mongering. ]

Nuke Summit
Dezzy
Terrorist will Purchase Nukes
Sellers will sell

Its not Sky1HD 24

Its reality.

Thank you for your time

Not really. The summit is about trying to get countries to lower their nuclear reserves. Do try to read the articles you quote, dear.

[Cherie]

Why do you call every dear? You sound like my grandma :laugh:

[arista]

Not really. The summit is about trying to get countries to lower their nuclear reserves. Do try to read the articles you quote, dear.


Yes because
Isis are now going for Nuke Attack inside
USA.


Not a Movie or TV Script.


In that Event a Mobile Phone Data
matters
you refuse to answer that
Tick Tock

[Marsh.]

Why do you call every dear? You sound like my grandma :laugh:

Well his name is Babs.

[arista]

Well his name is Babs.


How Nice

[Tom4784]

Yes because
Isis are now going for Nuke Attack inside
USA.


Not a Movie or TV Script.


In that Event a Mobile Phone Data
matters
you refuse to answer that
Tick Tock

What proof do you have of this outside of fearmongering and speculation?

It's a dumb unrealistic scenario that's purposely made to force your opinion down people's throats.

[kirklancaster]

Perhaps President Obama should consult some of the sages on Tibb before laying himself open to 'Arista' type ridicule by stating the below:


'Isis nuclear bomb is a serious threat, warns Barack Obama'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/isis-nuclear-bomb-is-a-serious-threat-warns-barack-obama-a6964621.html

[Cherie]

Oh dear

[Kizzy]

Isn't that just stating the obvious?
How would being able to access everyones phone counter that, not everyone has radioactive material do they? :/

If they did get some it would prob be due to del boy dave and his cut price weaponry sales to god knows who!

[bots]

The fact that there are nukes in the world makes them open to abuse if they find their way into the wrong hands.

People WILL do anything if the money is right, and something that ISIS have more than any previous terrorist group is money, and plenty of it.

Being aware that the possibility exists for weapons to fall into the wrong hands, is not scaremongering. It's highlighting a potential problem that we should be monitoring very closely

Does that extend to removing fundamental rights of individuals? I don't think so. We should protect our fundamental rights, using due process to track down those that would seek to harm us.

[Cherie]

The fact that there are nukes in the world makes them open to abuse if they find their way into the wrong hands.

People WILL do anything if the money is right, and something that ISIS have more than any previous terrorist group is money, and plenty of it.

Being aware that the possibility exists for weapons to fall into the wrong hands, is not scaremongering. It's highlighting a potential problem that we should be monitoring very closely

Does that extend to removing fundamental rights of individuals? I don't think so. We should protect our fundamental rights, using due process to track down those that would seek to harm us.


Yes and it's simply naive to think anything else

[bots]

Yes and it's simply naive to think anything else

Let's not forget the dodgy dealings of Mark Thatcher while his mother was PM. He supplied weapons illegally to support an uprising in a foreign country - He also did a dodgy deal that allegedly netted him 10 million quid (and it was signed off by his mother)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/mark-thatcher-accused-sources-say-he-got-12m-pounds-from-arms-deal-signed-by-his-mother-1441851.html

Corruption is everywhere!

[Cherie]

Let's not forget the dodgy dealings of Mark Thatcher while his mother was PM. He supplied weapons illegally to support an uprising in a foreign country - He also did a dodgy deal that allegedly netted him 10 million quid (and it was signed off by his mother)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/mark-thatcher-accused-sources-say-he-got-12m-pounds-from-arms-deal-signed-by-his-mother-1441851.html

Corruption is everywhere!

Forgot about that!

[DemolitionRed]

We were warned weeks ago that Obama may just stoop to this nonsense. The next thing on from this is about how we are all at risk of a nuclear attack if we leave the EU. Weeks ago I said, if he Obama does this, as predicted, I'd be voting out of the EU.

[Tom4784]

The fact that there are nukes in the world makes them open to abuse if they find their way into the wrong hands.

People WILL do anything if the money is right, and something that ISIS have more than any previous terrorist group is money, and plenty of it.

Being aware that the possibility exists for weapons to fall into the wrong hands, is not scaremongering. It's highlighting a potential problem that we should be monitoring very closely

Does that extend to removing fundamental rights of individuals? I don't think so. We should protect our fundamental rights, using due process to track down those that would seek to harm us.

Well it's not a realistic scenario, We basically destabilised the Middle East on a lie that Iraq had WMDs. If there's even a chance of IS getting nuclear capabilities then they would be slaughtered without pause.

It's just a stupid scenairio to justify the invasion of everyone's privacy and one that would never happen outside of 24. Arista thinks it's likely that IS will get their hands on a nuke, plan to plant it in America and then **** it all up by leaving a phone with all the information to stop it from happening lying about for the FBI to get their hands on.

The only reason why the FBI wants to access that phone is so that they can set a precedent to invade anyone's privacy as long as they justify it using the T-word. Anyone defending the FBI's actions are the ones who are TRULY naive.

[Cherie]

We were warned weeks ago that Obama may just stoop to this nonsense. The next thing on from this is about how we are all at risk of a nuclear attack if we leave the EU. Weeks ago I said, if he Obama does this, as predicted, I'd be voting out of the EU.

Who warned us?

[DemolitionRed]

Who warned us?

It was fairly widely broadcast a few weeks back. Obama has supposedly given millions of dollars towards the remain in campaign and it was suggested that Obama would speak out to the Brits in the 'project fear' campaign, which is what we are witnessing here.

http://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-brexit-project-fear-economy-jobs-terror-warning-britain-leaves-eu/

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/12/barack-obama-plans-eu-referendum-intervention

[Cherie]

It was fairly widely broadcast a few weeks back. Obama has supposedly given millions of dollars towards the remain in campaign and it was suggested that Obama would speak out to the Brits in the 'project fear' campaign, which is what we are witnessing here.

http://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-brexit-project-fear-economy-jobs-terror-warning-britain-leaves-eu/

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/12/barack-obama-plans-eu-referendum-intervention


Oh the out campaign warned us? It's an atomic summit, it would be a bit remiss not to mention the possibility of terrorism and ISIS wouldn't it?

[Cherie]

Well it's not a realistic scenario, We basically destabilised the Middle East on a lie that Iraq had WMDs. If there's even a chance of IS getting nuclear capabilities then they would be slaughtered without pause.

It's just a stupid scenairio to justify the invasion of everyone's privacy and one that would never happen outside of 24. Arista thinks it's likely that IS will get their hands on a nuke, plan to plant it in America and then **** it all up by leaving a phone with all the information to stop it from happening lying about for the FBI to get their hands on.

The only reason why the FBI wants to access that phone is so that they can set a precedent to invade anyone's privacy as long as they justify it using the T-word. Anyone defending the FBI's actions are the ones who are TRULY naive.

In your humble opinion

[DemolitionRed]

Oh the out campaign warned us? It's an atomic summit, it would be a bit remiss not to mention the possibility of terrorism and ISIS wouldn't it?

Yes you would, especially when the TTIP trade treaty is structured and reliant on the survival of the EU.

Nice try America but I for one am not convinced.