Yorkshire: UK School Promoting Extreme Islam

[arista]

[Leaflets available at a Muslim school
warn against adopting British customs
and watching TV - and say women
should not go to work.
A private Muslim school in Yorkshire
is promoting an extreme form of Islam,
claiming that Jews are engaged
in a global conspiracy to take
over the world and that adopting
British customs is forbidden.
The Islamic Tarbiyah Academy
in Dewsbury teaches 140 primary school
children in an after-school madrasa
and runs full-time classes
for over-16s and adults.
Mufti Zubair Dudha, the centre's
founder and head, is a respected
cleric from the orthodox Deobandi
sect which is thought to control half
of all mosques and madrasas in the UK.]


This is so wrong.

http://news.sky.com/story/1670528/exposed-uk-school-promoting-extreme-islam

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/3/31/456287/default/v1/cegrab-20160331-190948-735-1-736x414.jpg

[Tom4784]

Close it down.

[Josy]

Needs closing.

[Ammi]

....hmmmm, not great but they're also condemning terrorism and promoting non-violence it says so I would like to know more because this might just be 'slanted media propaganda' as well....

[kirklancaster]

'Tis but one of many throughout the UK, and yet another nail in the coffin of all those who claim that ALL Muslims desire to INTEGRATE.

I remember being berated for writing about this very problem a long time ago.

It does, indeed, need closing, but more than that; the principals need banning from ever being associated with any type of learning institution again - 'Private' or otherwise.

[Mystic Mock]

[Leaflets available at a Muslim school
warn against adopting British customs
and watching TV - and say women
should not go to work.
A private Muslim school in Yorkshire
is promoting an extreme form of Islam,
claiming that Jews are engaged
in a global conspiracy to take
over the world and that adopting
British customs is forbidden.
The Islamic Tarbiyah Academy
in Dewsbury teaches 140 primary school
children in an after-school madrasa
and runs full-time classes
for over-16s and adults.
Mufti Zubair Dudha, the centre's
founder and head, is a respected
cleric from the orthodox Deobandi
sect which is thought to control half
of all mosques and madrasas in the UK.]


This is so wrong.

http://news.sky.com/story/1670528/exposed-uk-school-promoting-extreme-islam

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/3/31/456287/default/v1/cegrab-20160331-190948-735-1-736x414.jpg

How do they ever procreate then if the woman can't go to work?:hehe:

But seriously I'm fed up of Religious extremists trying to run Secular Countries and telling us how we should live our lives, especially one that's going against every other Religion, Agnostic, and Atheist out there.

[bots]

Keep it open, then we can track the people that send their children to such schools and later track the children themselves. At least we know what they are up to now, rather than it being hidden in secrecy

[hijaxers]

'Tis but one of many throughout the UK, and yet another nail in the coffin of all those who claim that ALL Muslims desire to INTEGRATE.

I remember being berated for writing about this very problem a long time ago.

It does, indeed, need closing, but more than that; the principals need banning from ever being associated with any type of learning institution again - 'Private' or otherwise.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Close it and expose the staff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

close all religious schools tho

immediately

[arista]

Do a 60mins Docu on it
for BBC1HD
Ch4HD
or
SkyNewsHD

That will help Ammi
see the full story

[DemolitionRed]

Its good that this place has been exposed and no doubt it will now have to close its doors. The problem is, closing down this sort of place doesn't rid us of the problem because they just become more secretive and move more underground.

I wish they would just ban all religious schools. Whilst they can't do this in adult colleges, they can stop children attending radicalised main stream schools.

[Kizzy]

I'd say schools being changed to academies will be a godsend for those who have an ulterior motive too.

[arista]

I'd say schools being changed to academies will be a godsend for those who have an ulterior motive too.


I Blame New Labour Blair

[Kizzy]

I Blame New Labour Blair

Well there's a surprise...Thought you might.

[Cherie]

Its good that this place has been exposed and no doubt it will now have to close its doors. The problem is, closing down this sort of place doesn't rid us of the problem because they just become more secretive and move more underground.

I wish they would just ban all religious schools. Whilst they can't do this in adult colleges, they can stop children attending radicalised main stream schools.

Wouldn't banning all religious school be discrimination?

[DemolitionRed]

Wouldn't banning all religious school be discrimination?

Probably

[DemolitionRed]

Well there's a surprise...Thought you might.

:joker:

[Kizzy]

A similar story's in the Independent today.

'A London council’s education authority destroyed documents showing children were being educated in illegal faith schools at the request of religious institutions, The Independent can reveal.

The Department for Education has been aware of the apparent cover-up since 2010 but does not appear to have taken any steps to act against the destruction of these records.

An investigation by The Independent also found that more than 1,000 children are missing from schools in London and are at risk of abuse in illegal faith schools. The schools are ultra-Orthodox Jewish faith schools at which boys are placed from the age of 13, and where they receive no education beyond studying religious texts. A number of pupils leave school with little or no ability to speak English, and few – if any – qualifications or skills which equip them to work, or live independently.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/illegal-jewish-schools-department-of-education-knew-about-council-faith-school-cover-up-as-thousands-a6965516.html

[Tom4784]

Faith based schools shouldn't be a thing, religion should be taught in RE in a balanced impartial matter. Religion should never form the backbone of an education facility.

[JoshBB]

This is one of the reasons I am opposed to faith schools tbh, this kind of old-fashioned thining could not be promoted in a mixed environment without significant complaints.

[Mystic Mock]

close all religious schools tho

immediately

I really like the sound of this idea, it might stop some of the prejudice that's going on between each others Religions because they'll be mixing with each other from such a young age.

[Mystic Mock]

Faith based schools shouldn't be a thing, religion should be taught in RE in a balanced impartial matter. Religion should never form the backbone of an education facility.

I personally believe that there shouldn't even be an RE lesson at School.

Religion is something that's personal to the individual and should be practiced in the person's free time, wasting an hour or more on something so trivial is just bizarre to me when we could have that time dedicated to something that's done less but is more important to learn in life like History, Geography, Technology etc.

My other issue with RE is that whoever's teaching it is never going to be impartial.

[Marsh.]

I personally believe that there shouldn't even be an RE lesson at School.

Religion is something that's personal to the individual and should be practiced in the person's free time, wasting an hour or more on something so trivial is just bizarre to me when we could have that time dedicated to something that's done less but is more important to learn in life like History, Geography, Technology etc.

My other issue with RE is that whoever's teaching it is never going to be impartial.

RE as a subject couldn't be less trivial.

In most cases it's not like going to church (or any other place of worship) and being taught to believe the earth is flat and bearded men live on clouds etc fgs. It's a full education on the history and culture from around the world. Very valid education.

[Mystic Mock]

RE as a subject couldn't be less trivial.

In most cases it's not like going to church (or any other place of worship) and being taught to believe the earth is flat and bearded men live on clouds etc fgs. It's a full education on the history and culture from around the world. Very valid education.

It's something that can be picked up on in day to day life, I know that I've learned more about Religions in my own spare time than I ever did when I was at School.

[Marsh.]

It's something that can be picked up on in day to day life, I know that I've learned more about Religions in my own spare time than I ever did when I was at School.

Yes, we can all learn about the entire world in our day to day life.

Close the schools! We can just learn in our spare time!

[arista]

Yes, we can all learn about the entire world in our day to day life.

Close the schools! We can just learn in our spare time!



No Close Schools like this one
that have gone wrong

[Mystic Mock]

Yes, we can all learn about the entire world in our day to day life.

Close the schools! We can just learn in our spare time!

Ironically I've educated myself a lot better than my Teachers ever did.:joker:

But obviously I know that School is needed for those that need guidance, and to get better at socializing.:laugh:

But you honestly think that teaching Religion is so important when you're going to School? It gets talked about so much in day to day life that it isn't really needed as you're very likely to get your information from your parents, friends, atheists, and the Political side of them you can learn from the news.

When you're going to School you want to learn about stuff that's gonna help you provide for yourself such as English, Maths, Science, History (if you want to become an Historian) Geography, PE etc, yet a lot of these are studied significantly less just so the Teachers can put their own points of view across on a particular Religion/Religions.

[Cherie]

No Close Schools like this one
that have gone wrong


Precisely Arista :clap2:

ironic that the people who say all Muslims mustn't be judged on the actions of a few are quite happy to close all faith schools on the actions of a handful, where is the freedom of expression or choice in that :idc: or shall we sweep those freedoms aside for religious people to please the atheists

[Mystic Mock]

Precisely Arista :clap2:

ironic that the people who say all Muslims mustn't be judged on the actions of a few are quite happy to close all faith schools on the actions of a handful, where is the freedom of expression or choice in that :idc: or shall we sweep those freedoms aside for religious people to please the atheists

I'm no Atheist, but having Faith Schools is just gonna keep causing Religious feuds all of the time and do you really want that when Christians, Muslims, and Jewish could all mix in the same Secular School?

[Cherie]

I'm no Atheist, but having Faith Schools is just gonna keep causing Religious feuds all of the time and do you really want that when Christians, Muslims, and Jewish could all mix in the same Secular School?

Doesn't feuding happen between schools whether they are religious or not? People will always find something to feud about, you can't live in a democracy and deny people their rights, if we are going to pick and choose which people have freedom to choose there is no democracy

[Marsh.]

Ironically I've educated myself a lot better than my Teachers ever did.:joker:

But obviously I know that School is needed for those that need guidance, and to get better at socializing.:laugh:

But you honestly think that teaching Religion is so important when you're going to School? It gets talked about so much in day to day life that it isn't really needed as you're very likely to get your information from your parents, friends, atheists, and the Political side of them you can learn from the news.

When you're going to School you want to learn about stuff that's gonna help you provide for yourself such as English, Maths, Science, History (if you want to become an Historian) Geography, PE etc, yet a lot of these are studied significantly less just so the Teachers can put their own points of view across on a particular Religion/Religions.

If you think education is only about preparing you for what you might require in a job ("if you want to become a historian") then this conversation is over. :hee:

Also, why are you suggesting that time is lost on English, Maths, Science and History to spend more time on religion where the teachers push their own beliefs on the students? That's a bizarre notion.

[arista]

Precisely Arista :clap2:

ironic that the people who say all Muslims mustn't be judged on the actions of a few are quite happy to close all faith schools on the actions of a handful, where is the freedom of expression or choice in that :idc: or shall we sweep those freedoms aside for religious people to please the atheists


Yes this school , not like other Muslims Schools,
crossed the line.

We have Rules on this

Democracy

[Northern Monkey]

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

[kirklancaster]

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Tom4784]

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

Foolishly shortsighted and hysterical. What next? Putting them in camps just in case?

Treating an entire subsection of people like criminals when they haven't done anything will only divide us further. It's suggestions like this that only help IS. Crush extremism when it's found but don't punish innocent people and make them feel like second class citizens out of fear. 'Preventative' action like that sounds more like something IS would endorse.

[JoshBB]

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

It's not going to do much to prevent radicalisation when you're going to single people out as an enemy before they've done anything wrong. I agree muslim schools need extra monitoring given the stats, but so should christian schools given that violence against muslims by white people has seen an increase in recent years. Not all churches are extremist and neither are all mosques though, and they are not all 'the problem'.

[Northern Monkey]

It's not going to do much to prevent radicalisation when you're going to single people out as an enemy before they've done anything wrong. I agree muslim schools need extra monitoring given the stats, but so should christian schools given that violence against muslims by white people has seen an increase in recent years. Not all churches are extremist and neither are all mosques though, and they are not all 'the problem'.

No but you need to search out and find the problem ones.Muslim schools need to be focussed on because they are the problem.Wasting resources on other areas just to 'make it fair' is pointless and detracts from where the actual threat is coming from.We are'nt America with crazy Christian sects and Sikhs,Hindus and Jews are generally peaceful atleast in this country.
If you get a tumour in your lung then searching your big toe for it won't help.
We should'nt be scared to sniff out terrorism from it's source just because 'it does'nt look PC'

[Tom4784]

No but you need to search out and find the problem ones.Muslim schools need to be focussed on because they are the problem.Wasting resources on other areas just to 'make it fair' is pointless and detracts from where the actual threat is coming from.We are'nt America with crazy Christian sects and Sikhs,Hindus and Jews are generally peaceful atleast in this country.
If you get a tumour in your lung then searching your big toe for it won't help.
We should'nt be scared to sniff out terrorism from it's source just because 'it does'nt look PC'


It's not about being PC, it's about creating a bigger mess out of fear.

If we pre-preemptively treat people like terrorists then we're doing IS' job for them.

[Kizzy]

What is wrong with regulation for all schools state, private or academy?

[Ammi]

...singling out Muslim schools would be a breach of Islamic human rights...this school hasn't been 'singled out', it's being investigated because there are concerns and there have to be concerns like this...schools/any school shouldn't just be investigated or targeted to 'keep a close eye on' unless there are definite reasons to do so...

[Crimson Dynamo]

the answer is to take religion out of schools completely and utterly

[icecakes]

the answer is to take religion out of schools completely and utterly

:clap1: Exactly school is for learning, not having religion crammed down their throats, let them be kids.

[Mystic Mock]

If you think education is only about preparing you for what you might require in a job ("if you want to become a historian") then this conversation is over. :hee:

Also, why are you suggesting that time is lost on English, Maths, Science and History to spend more time on religion where the teachers push their own beliefs on the students? That's a bizarre notion.

That's exactly what School is for, teaching children the basics and then the children are suppose to go on and persue their subjects that they're interested in, and of course to help children socialise with strangers.

What do you think School is suppose to be for?:laugh:

And until I was old enough to go for subjects that I wanted to learn, RE was pushed ahead of History at my Schools, and it was on par with English and Science (as for some reason my Schools loved Maths and I'm beyond **** at it) but yeah RE used to be done a lot, and all it ever really was, was pro Christianity, anti-Islam, and indifferent responses to the others.

[Mystic Mock]

Doesn't feuding happen between schools whether they are religious or not? People will always find something to feud about, you can't live in a democracy and deny people their rights, if we are going to pick and choose which people have freedom to choose there is no democracy

We're also suppose to be in a multicultural society and having Faith Schools around that some of them actively teaches hatred of anything different to themselves is not exactly embracing the UK's ways.

I honestly don't feel comfortable with parents brainwashing their children by putting them in a Faith School that could completely mess up their outlook on life.

[Marsh.]

That's exactly what School is for, teaching children the basics and then the children are suppose to go on and persue their subjects that they're interested in, and of course to help children socialise with strangers.

What do you think School is suppose to be for?:laugh:

And until I was old enough to go for subjects that I wanted to learn, RE was pushed ahead of History at my Schools, and it was on par with English and Science (as for some reason my Schools loved Maths and I'm beyond **** at it) but yeah RE used to be done a lot, and all it ever really was, was pro Christianity, anti-Islam, and indifferent responses to the others.

School is for far more than just preparing you for what job you would like as an adult Mock. Don't act dumb.

Your school taught you to be anti-islamic?

I call bulls*t. :hee:

[Mystic Mock]

School is for far more than just preparing you for what job you would like as an adult Mock. Don't act dumb.

Your school taught you to be anti-islamic?

I call bulls*t. :hee:

It's not acting dumb, School teaches you to get on in your Adult life, and how to socialize.:conf:

Don't tell me that you think School is suppose to be fun do you? Because trust me, bullies, Teachers being biased towards certain kids, and when you have Migraine's and the School won't let you go home, or even Phone your parents about you having a Migraine so you're just trapped there lying on a pillow doing nothing is not fun.

Teachers getting the **** beaten out of them by 13/14 year olds is not fun.

Having homophobic and racism thrown out you isn't fun.

So tell me what is School suppose to be about other than Job prospects, and socializing?:hee:

And my Schools wasn't so open about being "Anti-Islam" but they definitely used to show more of the barbaric parts of the Koran than they ever did the Bible or the Torah, or the Vedas etc.

[Marsh.]

Yes, Mock, I was clearly referring to how "fun" school is supposed to be. That was my point. :umm2:

[bots]

So tell me what is School suppose to be about other than Job prospects, and socializing?:hee:


It's about getting an education perhaps? :unsure:

[user104658]

School is for far more than just preparing you for what job you would like as an adult Mock.

It should be. It isn't. It's for creating productive drones, but it's not even very good at that :shrug:

[Kizzy]

It should be. It isn't. It's for creating productive drones, but it's not even very good at that :shrug:

Amen to that! :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

It's about getting an education perhaps? :unsure:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Genuine Lolling. So well said, but isn't it a pity when 'stating the bleedin' obvious' is both necessary and humorous. :laugh:

[user104658]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Genuine Lolling. So well said, but isn't it a pity when 'stating the bleedin' obvious' is both necessary and humorous. [emoji23]
That's a pretty broad statement, though. Is it "An education" in terms of the academic basics of narrow, defined subjects so that they can "get into the world of work and pay their taxes"... or are we talking about a more broad "education" as in actually teaching young people about the world / philosophy / how to think with logic and reason about complex real-world problems.

The aim of the government and current school system, while they like to claim it is that latter, is unquestionably the former of these. They want functional parts for their machine, be that the basic cogs going into min-wage slog or the "more complex parts" going into higher professions or business. At the end of the day, it's rat-race stuff, it's about creating Workers, not Thinkers. Which I personally struggle to define as "an education".

... And like I said, they're not even particularly efficient at that :shrug:.

[Mystic Mock]

It's about getting an education perhaps? :unsure:

And what are you suppose to do with that education?

So I was right and people was debating my initial post for nothing.

[bots]

And what are you suppose to do with that education?

So I was right and people was debating my initial post for nothing.

Use it to benefit your future life in whatever you do, not just in a job

[Marsh.]

It should be. It isn't. It's for creating productive drones, but it's not even very good at that :shrug:

Maybe in bad schools, I feel for anyone who had to go to one.

[Marsh.]

And what are you suppose to do with that education?

You think the only use for broadening your knowledge and education is for potential jobs?

[Mystic Mock]

Use it to benefit your future life in whatever you do, not just in a job

Well how you use your education in other ways of your life will depend on how well you can socialise which again School is needed for that aspect.

However not every kid suits learning in big environments such as School, some children are better in one on one learning (like myself) because the Teachers tend to explain their subjects better with just one child than they do when there's loads of bratty children disturbing the class.

And also some children like hanging around adults more than they do other children at their own age group (again I was like this) as children/teenagers try to push you out of cliques if you're just slightly “weird” and it can be hell for people and make them anti-social.

School could be great, but the Teachers need to actually give a toss about the kids instead of rewarding the bullies.

[Mystic Mock]

You think the only use for broadening your knowledge and education is for potential jobs?

Well for the millionth time I would also say it tests children's social intelligence too.

I say test as sadly not every child gets accepted in these hell holes.

[user104658]

Maybe in bad schools, I feel for anyone who had to go to one.

Nah, I went to a school that was (at the time) a top-10 state school in the country. My 6 year old goes to the best (by a mile) state primary school in the county.

They like to dress it up in frills and distractions to make it seem, on the surface, like it's about more than getting you out there as a productive proletarian... but fundamentally, that is the aim. Full stop. They want to "educate" you to meet your earning potential, be that builder or brain surgeon. Beyond that, they have absolutely zero interest in expanding your world-view or what you might do with the rest of your "non-work" life.

Let me be clear that this isn't true of all teachers - there are some wonderful teachers in our schools - but it is true of the system as a whole, it's built into the very foundations of it. Obedience and homogenisation. There's a reason that countless young teachers become quickly disillusioned and end up leaving the profession, even after spending years and thousands of pounds in training.

[Kizzy]

I was the first year to do GCSEs instead of O levels, I remember walking past classrooms and seeing teachers CRYING, I think they knew how things were going to turn out :/

[Ammi]

That's a pretty broad statement, though. Is it "An education" in terms of the academic basics of narrow, defined subjects so that they can "get into the world of work and pay their taxes"... or are we talking about a more broad "education" as in actually teaching young people about the world / philosophy / how to think with logic and reason about complex real-world problems.

The aim of the government and current school system, while they like to claim it is that latter, is unquestionably the former of these. They want functional parts for their machine, be that the basic cogs going into min-wage slog or the "more complex parts" going into higher professions or business. At the end of the day, it's rat-race stuff, it's about creating Workers, not Thinkers. Which I personally struggle to define as "an education".

... And like I said, they're not even particularly efficient at that :shrug:.

Nah, I went to a school that was (at the time) a top-10 state school in the country. My 6 year old goes to the best (by a mile) state primary school in the county.

They like to dress it up in frills and distractions to make it seem, on the surface, like it's about more than getting you out there as a productive proletarian... but fundamentally, that is the aim. Full stop. They want to "educate" you to meet your earning potential, be that builder or brain surgeon. Beyond that, they have absolutely zero interest in expanding your world-view or what you might do with the rest of your "non-work" life.

Let me be clear that this isn't true of all teachers - there are some wonderful teachers in our schools - but it is true of the system as a whole, it's built into the very foundations of it. Obedience and homogenisation. There's a reason that countless young teachers become quickly disillusioned and end up leaving the profession, even after spending years and thousands of pounds in training.


..I'm sorry about your own experiences with schools TS..both yours and your children's and others that you might know but it's not accurate to generalise all schools in such a way because many do encourage creative/critical and independent thinking...it's the ethos to do so of not only our school but of many schools..to encourage it also with active participation of parents in social and philosophy times...and there are also many reasons why teaching staff make choices to leave their profession...and I have to say, that (some) parents also do have a part in some of those decisions, some decisions that I've personally known of, to leave the profession..that with the best and most loving intentions, they themselves can be a huge issue in hindering their child's individuality..and frustrations that teaching staff have with that as well...

[user104658]

I'm not saying those elements aren't there though, Ammi. Like I said, a big part of the claim across the board is that these things are being encouraged and on the surface there are plenty of elements of it. However, when you chip away at the surface a little, it becomes clear that those things are the "add on activities". The core function of the school system is to prepare average kids for average work as an adult. The resources and structures simply are not available to properly cater to especially bright or especially challenged children with any meaningful individual focus, the bulk of the learning experience is standardised, homogenised and ultimately, arbitrarily graded.

[Ammi]

I'm not saying those elements aren't there though, Ammi. Like I said, a big part of the claim across the board is that these things are being encouraged and on the surface there are plenty of elements of it. However, when you chip away at the surface a little, it becomes clear that those things are the "add on activities". The core function of the school system is to prepare average kids for average work as an adult. The resources and structures simply are not available to properly cater to especially bright or especially challenged children with any meaningful individual focus, the bulk of the learning experience is standardised, homogenised and ultimately, arbitrarily graded.

...but it always was though, in that the core has always been National Curriculum based obviously and certain things/topics have to be covered in lessons but what does vary a lot ..(and is to do with individual schools/teaching staff etc..)...is how those topics are covered, that's why it can't be generalised, even though topics are set...it's not about philosophy for instance only being covered in a specific lesson, it's about it being applied in all lessons, which it can be...and about children learning to apply in every day life as well, which is very much individual/analytical and critical thinking...(I don't believe in any exam system btw but that's another thing..:laugh:..)...but I do feel that most schools I know, try as best they can to cater for individual children, whatever their needs are plus very much try to involve parents as well so that they can help as they (generally..)..haven't got 30 children whose each individuality is being considered....plus budgets, budgets, budgets baby../a nightmare as always...but I have to say..(in my humble opinion and experiences of course..)...a huge 'hinderer' in some cases with encouraging a child's individuality is that positive steps forward by the school and other outside resources if applicable are often then taken steps back, by a parent themselves....

[user104658]

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...

[Cherie]

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...


Getting everyone to read, write and do basic maths can't be a bad thing! Don't they have a Gifted and Talented programme in your school?

[Cherie]

Maybe you could home school as you are so annoyed with the curriculum?

[user104658]

Getting everyone to read, write and do basic maths can't be a bad thing! Don't they have a Gifted and Talented programme in your school?

No it's not a "bad thing" but it's also not enough.

Maybe you could home school as you are so annoyed with the curriculum?

Yes this seems like exactly the right thing to do, for anyone who has a complaint or criticism about anything. Opt out and ignore it, right?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Toy Soldier;8604108]No it's not a "bad thing" but it's also not enough.

You didn't answer the question 're Gifted and Talented

Yes this seems like exactly the right thing to do, for anyone who has a complaint or criticism about anything. Opt out and ignore it, right?[/QUOTE


In my experience if you opt out of the system...the system sits up and takes notice

[user104658]

You didn't answer the question 're Gifted and Talented


The closest thing to it that I know of, is that they'll allow children to take on the work of (and at times work alongside) older children if they've blown through the curriculum intended for their age group. This is largely irrelevant, though; "prepping for work" is still "prepping for work"... pushing them through it faster doesn't change that? "Hey buddy guess what? You could have graduated University and be working full time by 19 instead of 22! HOORAYYY! Think of all of those extra taxes you'll get to pay!"

This is an existential issue, I suppose, so I don't expect everyone to understand. I find the birth-school-work-retire-death life cycle to be empty, meaningless and depressing. I do understand that most people convince themselves that they're OK with it, though.

[empire]

Im not one bit surprised by this, are mps are living in a huge bubble, where the land is milk and honey, too them, any mp who would have the balls, and said no to having these schools built in this country, the big problem is that the government has done far too much pandering too these people, and to many years of it, these guys think that people must role out the red carpet and follow their way of life, in switzerland they told them that if you don't like are way of life then don't live here, after trojan horse, are government is too scared too to shut them all down, because they will be called islamophobic, that's how weak people are now.

[Ammi]

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...

..how could it ever be 'ideal', I mean that would just be impossible to totally, individually tailor lesson structure etc for each child in a school so there has to be a 'mainstream' core etc...but whatever that core was, it wouldn't suit everyone for the reason that we are all individuals... and each individual child does have personal plans/targets etc, which are individually structured for them..their needs, their abilities etc..these are also set with parent's input as well...and I would say that it's a bit more than 'marginally' better than back in the day because it isn't all geared up to academics anymore in the way that it used to be....

...anyways, I do understand how frustrating it is for parents as well if they feel they have a 'gifted and talented' child..(at Primary School level, I specifically mean and at the start of their early years learning..)...and maybe feeling that their child's needs aren't being met..?...obviously I don't know about you child's needs specifically or her school but schools/teachers also have to factor into personal plans that progressions will not necessarily follow at equal paces ..so for instance, a child in Reception or Year 1..?..could excel in some things in comparison with others in the class but the progression in others could be at a much faster pace, so children could not only catch up but could 'over-take' as well...so it's also not to push a child 'too hard' as well, which could only effect their confidence, so many things to take into consideration ...even if home schooled, a core curriculum would be the same and still have to be followed...anyways, whatever special needs and requirements a child may need, whether it be 'gifted and talented' or the opposite extreme of a child who struggles to achieve...schools do get funding for those children (so for that reason as well..)...they very much support individual children in meeting their needs as best they can..(in my experience..)...

[Ammi]

Im not one bit surprised by this, are mps are living in a huge bubble, where the land is milk and honey, too them, any mp who would have the balls, and said no to having these schools built in this country, the big problem is that the government has done far too much pandering too these people, and to many years of it, these guys think that people must role out the red carpet and follow their way of life, in switzerland they told them that if you don't like are way of life then don't live here, after trojan horse, are government is too scared too to shut them all down, because they will be called islamophobic, that's how weak people are now.


..'these people'..?...I don't see respecting religious beliefs of others/showing tolerance to beliefs/faiths as 'rolling out a red carpet'....

[Kizzy]

Religious schools in general have had a patchy reputation, I remember friends locally that went to a religious school, they were either whacked or touched up.
That said I sent my own son to a religious school, suckered in by the whole caring, family like vibe and he was bullied by a teacher for a year... :/
It has simply coloured my view further, how is it getting progressively worse and not better no lessons are being learnt are they? (npi) makes you wonder if it is the fear of a backlash for the whistleblowers or they are paying someone off.

[user104658]

..how could it ever be 'ideal', I mean that would just be impossible to totally, individually tailor lesson structure etc for each child in a school so there has to be a 'mainstream' core etc...but whatever that core was, it wouldn't suit everyone for the reason that we are all individuals... and each individual child does have personal plans/targets etc, which are individually structured for them..their needs, their abilities etc..these are also set with parent's input as well...and I would say that it's a bit more than 'marginally' better than back in the day because it isn't all geared up to academics anymore in the way that it used to be....

...anyways, I do understand how frustrating it is for parents as well if they feel they have a 'gifted and talented' child..(at Primary School level, I specifically mean and at the start of their early years learning..)...and maybe feeling that their child's needs aren't being met..?...obviously I don't know about you child's needs specifically or her school but schools/teachers also have to factor into personal plans that progressions will not necessarily follow at equal paces ..so for instance, a child in Reception or Year 1..?..could excel in some things in comparison with others in the class but the progression in others could be at a much faster pace, so children could not only catch up but could 'over-take' as well...so it's also not to push a child 'too hard' as well, which could only effect their confidence, so many things to take into consideration ...even if home schooled, a core curriculum would be the same and still have to be followed...anyways, whatever special needs and requirements a child may need, whether it be 'gifted and talented' or the opposite extreme of a child who struggles to achieve...schools do get funding for those children (so for that reason as well..)...they very much support individual children in meeting their needs as best they can..(in my experience..)...
Like I said Ammi, you more or less follow / respect the "status quo of life" so you're never going to understand what I'm saying. I find it depressing that schools are essentially factories designed to churn out "productive citizens", worker bees who get the "best job they can" then do that for 50 years, retire for 10, then die.

It doesn't matter whether bright kids go through faster or attain more and get jobs which require more qualifications, or if little Billy's nin-academic strengths are identified so that he can get a good and productive non-academic job... It's all geared towards the same thing. Prepping kids to grow up and work themselves into the grave.

Essentially my problem is that I don't think there's enough time for kids to just be kids. I don't think the issue is that Sally Smith is stuck on Book B7 of the Blue series when she should be on C1 Orange. I think the issue is that kids are lined up, homogenised and prepped to be cogs in a crappy machine instead of being given any time at all to explore, be curious, and learn in unstructured, creative, chaotic ways. Like you said, even if you choose to home school, you still "have to" follow the basic curriculum. You CAN'T even opt out. We're herded into these structured little factories at 5 years old, moulded and drilled into "something productive", and we don't leave the production line until we retire. Which is now aged 70. So basically dead.

[Mystic Mock]

Religious schools in general have had a patchy reputation, I remember friends locally that went to a religious school, they were either whacked or touched up.
That said I sent my own son to a religious school, suckered in by the whole caring, family like vibe and he was bullied by a teacher for a year... :/
It has simply coloured my view further, how is it getting progressively worse and not better no lessons are being learnt are they? (npi) makes you wonder if it is the fear of a backlash for the whistleblowers or they are paying someone off.

Tbf Teachers can bully students in all sorts of different School environments, that's not just Faith Schools that have that problem.

Teachers need to care more about the kids, in my Primary School in particular the bullies used to get the treats while the well behaved kids used to get nothing.

Also in Secondry School I always suspected that certain people used to cheat their Exams as they was getting higher scores than me and they was thick as ****.

[Kizzy]

Tbf Teachers can bully students in all sorts of different School environments, that's not just Faith Schools that have that problem.

Teachers need to care more about the kids, in my Primary School in particular the bullies used to get the treats while the well behaved kids used to get nothing.

Also in Secondry School I always suspected that certain people used to cheat their Exams as they was getting higher scores than me and they was thick as ****.

I didn't say it was, with it being a faith school however my expectations for more social/spiritual education were higher.

[T*]

Faith based schools shouldn't be a thing, religion should be taught in RE in a balanced impartial matter. Religion should never form the backbone of an education facility.

This

[Ammi]

Like I said Ammi, you more or less follow / respect the "status quo of life" so you're never going to understand what I'm saying. I find it depressing that schools are essentially factories designed to churn out "productive citizens", worker bees who get the "best job they can" then do that for 50 years, retire for 10, then die.

It doesn't matter whether bright kids go through faster or attain more and get jobs which require more qualifications, or if little Billy's nin-academic strengths are identified so that he can get a good and productive non-academic job... It's all geared towards the same thing. Prepping kids to grow up and work themselves into the grave.

Essentially my problem is that I don't think there's enough time for kids to just be kids. I don't think the issue is that Sally Smith is stuck on Book B7 of the Blue series when she should be on C1 Orange. I think the issue is that kids are lined up, homogenised and prepped to be cogs in a crappy machine instead of being given any time at all to explore, be curious, and learn in . Like you said, even if you choose to home school, you still "have to" follow the basic curriculum. You CAN'T even opt out. We're herded into these structured little factories at 5 years old, moulded and drilled into "something productive", and we don't leave the production line until we retire. Which is now aged 70. So basically dead.

....hmmm, I wouldn't say that receiving physical injuries or/and vocal abuse on almost a daily basis is 'following a status quo in life' so that really isn't me at all TS... but yes, I do hold great respect for the children I work with because I know that their aim was'is never to hurt me or anyone else as such, but is only their own frustrations and struggles with 'individuality'....so I do completely understand what you're saying TS...but I just don't agree with it is all, not as a generalisation of all schools because some schools do encourage individual/critical thinking through many things..many things in school..so far as it's possible..)..and many changes in school are choices of the children and not choices of the staff...and their choices are also something they discuss with their parents if they wish to...and 'unstructured, creative, chaotic ways' are all part of school times as well..(both in lesson time and after school activities..)...but obviously curriculum lessons have to be followed as well so that children do have balances and information to be able to make their individual choices in life at the times they will make them...

[user104658]

No, I am 100% certain that you don't know what I'm talking about. That's OK though, I don't think I'm explaining it very clearly.

[Mystic Mock]

I didn't say it was, with it being a faith school however my expectations for more social/spiritual education were higher.

The only thing that's surprised me about it is that your Son was bullied from one of their Teachers, because that really sounds like my Schools.:joker:

Mine were C Of E Schools.