Article: 'What is it about the left that makes anti-semitism so common?'

[JoshBB]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:
Part of the problem, I think, is the Left’s power-centric analysis of discrimination. Following the work of social scientist Patricia Bidol-Padva, it has become increasingly popular to define racism, sexism and other similar "isms" as “prejudice plus power”. This approach denies the possibility of anti-male sexism, for example, because men are not a discriminated against group. The goal is to discourage false equivalence in conflicts between oppressed and dominant groups. However, it’s an orthodoxy that can leave adherents with some odd blind spots.

My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too :)

[lostalex]

The right is just as anti-semitic just in a different way. it's a case of an enemy of my enemy is my friend. the same way the right bashes muslims for their treatment of women, but the right doesn't really care about women. the right bashes muslim for their treatment of gays but the right doesn't care about gays. The right supports jews only because they want to bash muslim, but behind closed doors the right doesn't care about jews at all.

[arista]

Yes JoshBB
Labour have some Nasty Jewish Haters.
Who write it all online or in papers


All Sensible Labour MP's want these Nasty ones
removed forever

Its been debated on the Daily Politics(BBC2HD),
Ch4HD News and SkyNewsHD
some weeks back.

[Livia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:

My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too :)


Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.

[JoshBB]

Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?

[Kizzy]

What happened in 1947?

[Livia]

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?

Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.

[Livia]

What happened in 1947?

Typo.... 1948.

[Mystic Mock]

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?

I think the reason that the left has such an issue with Jewish people is because a lot of Jewish people are business minded so are more likely to be right wing, hence why I think some of the left has an issue with Jewish people.

And also there are your racist left (which I know isn't very common) but it does exist, but I think as the secondry thing to the usual right versus left scenario.

What can be ironic with the left though is that they probably defend one of the most right wing organizations out there.:joker:

And btw I'm on about in their day to day lives, not with terrorism.

[joeysteele]

Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.

I always bow to your vast knowledge on this.
I have Jewish friends and they generally say much the same as you do.

I wish you would do a sort of blog on the issue really, it would be a fascinating, educating and insightful read for me, for one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

form a club and have some rules and it does not matter if its badminton or religion the hate will come from those who are not in it

[kirklancaster]

form a club and have some rules and it does not matter if its badminton or religion the hate will come from those who are not in it

:clap1::clap1::clap1: In a nutshell of pure truth.

[Kizzy]

I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:

[kirklancaster]

I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

balls in skirts?


the bastards

[JoshBB]

Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.

I mean don't get me wrong, I do feel like anti-semitism is more aligned to the far-right than those on the far-left, however it is one element of racism that seems to have at least a tiny amount of backing on the left whereas the left tends to reject every other form of racism. I'd find it really interesting if you did a longer post on what you think about the whole Israel scenario too like Kizzy said, with your knowledge & experiences it would be really insightful to read.

[Kizzy]

I don't think I said that Josh :laugh:
I would like a run down on 1948 though.

[Marsh.]

I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:

:joker::joker::joker:

[lostalex]

Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.

To be fair, there is a bias among jews all over the world towards Israel. especially jews in North America.

Probably because of right to return and family pressure to visit "the homeland". there is no doubt Livia that jews all over the world, no matter how far removed from Israel itself, just being jews they do feel a loyalty. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's silly to deny it exists.

Just like most blacks feel a loyalty to Africa even if they've never been there and have no desire to ever live there, they still have an automatic bias towards what is perceived as "the homeland".

[Ammi]

..I don't see that it could be seen as a 'bias' to see prejudices, no matter where in the world and regardless of whether that place in the world is lived in and no matter who is seeing those prejudices...surely we all see a connection to 'wrongs' and prejudice etc, simply because we're humans...

[bots]

For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing

[kirklancaster]

For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing

:laugh::clap1::clap1::clap1:

[user104658]

The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.

[Kizzy]

The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Kizzy]

For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing

What a reductive view, hey,some think war and genocide are wrong...let's mock them till they change their minds :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.

what "people" is this?

[user104658]

what "people" is this?
Stupid ones?

[Kizzy]

Stupid ones?

:joker: :joker: :joker:

[Livia]

I mean don't get me wrong, I do feel like anti-semitism is more aligned to the far-right than those on the far-left, however it is one element of racism that seems to have at least a tiny amount of backing on the left whereas the left tends to reject every other form of racism. I'd find it really interesting if you did a longer post on what you think about the whole Israel scenario too like Kizzy said, with your knowledge & experiences it would be really insightful to read.

Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.

To be fair, there is a bias among jews all over the world towards Israel. especially jews in North America.

Probably because of right to return and family pressure to visit "the homeland". there is no doubt Livia that jews all over the world, no matter how far removed from Israel itself, just being jews they do feel a loyalty. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's silly to deny it exists.

Just like most blacks feel a loyalty to Africa even if they've never been there and have no desire to ever live there, they still have an automatic bias towards what is perceived as "the homeland".

Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.

The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.

Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.

What a reductive view, hey,some think war and genocide are wrong...let's mock them till they change their minds :/

They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.

[joeysteele]

Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.



Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.



Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.



They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.



Actually I think I was the one who wished you would.:hee:

You have always been the focus of where I would come on this issue anyway.

[Livia]

Actually I think I was the one who wished you would.:hee:

You have always been the focus of where I would come on this issue anyway.

Well, that's what happens when I try to answer multi-posts!

Thanks for the kind words, joey.

[user104658]

Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.

I'm not saying it is, all I'm saying is that when some people talk about rising anti-Semitism, they are actually referring to anti-Israel sentiment / boycotting etc... A lot of people fail to make a distinction.

That's not to say that anti-Israel sentiment doesn't sometimes spill over into antisemitism... It does, unfortunately... In the same way that people the world over find themselves blamed by association for things that they don't endorse.

[lostalex]

Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.



Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.



Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.



They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.

the US definitely could have stopped them. don't act so entitled. we gave that to you, and don't forget it. the jews are getting a bit too cocky lately. The jews are still a people lost in the desert, and you can get a lot more lonely in that desert if you don't watch your tongue.

[Livia]

I'm not saying it is, all I'm saying is that when some people talk about rising anti-Semitism, they are actually referring to anti-Israel sentiment / boycotting etc... A lot of people fail to make a distinction.

That's not to say that anti-Israel sentiment doesn't sometimes spill over into antisemitism... It does, unfortunately... In the same way that people the world over find themselves blamed by association for things that they don't endorse.

Yes, I do agree it's one of the symptoms of the rising anti-Semitism but there are many other factors. The hijacking of the Islamic faith by terrorists have given right wingers all over Europe a fresh sense of indignation. They already hate the Jews anyway... so we're - confusingly - lumped in with the Islamists. And the terrorists themselves target Jews because of the Palestinian situation. It's a ****ing mare's nest. When you consider how long we have on this little planet it always astounds me that people don't make a bigger effort to get on. Except the Buddhists obviously... they're here over and over again.

[Livia]

the US definitely could have stopped them. don't act so entitled. we gave that to you, and don't forget it. the jews are getting a bit too cocky lately.

We believe that God gave it to us about 5000 years before there were any white faces in what became the USA.

Hey Alex.

[lostalex]

We believe that God gave it to us about 5000 years before there were any white faces in what became the USA.

Hey Alex.

Hey Livia.

there is no god. and even if there was he has no authority over this world.

[Livia]

Hey Livia.

there is no god. and even if there was he has no authority over this world.

I support your right to think that, Alex.

[user104658]

I also recently found an ancient tablet that says God gave me the whole of the US, I've had it dated and it's 8000 years old. Sooo... Start packin' Alex.

[Livia]

I also recently found an ancient tablet that says God gave me the whole of the US, I've had it dated and it's 8000 years old. Sooo... Start packin' Alex.

Like God would speak to the likes of you, TS... you bloody heathen.

[user104658]

Like God would speak to the likes of you, TS... you bloody heathen.
That's why he left a message...

[Livia]

That's why he left a message...

That wasn't God, it was Leather Trumpet 'avin' a larf.

[user104658]

That wasn't God, it was Leather Trumpet 'avin' a larf.
On the first day, LT created man.

On the second day, he created Cops.

On the third day, one of the cops shot a black kid for no reason.

On the fourth day, one of the cops shot all of the other cops by accident.

On the fifth day, that last cop shot all of the other humans and then himself.

On the sixth day, LT defended the actions of the cop because he had a stressful job, and decided to start over by creating a world populated only with cops.

On the seventh day he was going to rest... But instead decided to troll TS off TiBB by planting an ancient tablet to be discovered thousands of years later.




... It's as good an origin story as any, I suppose.

[Mystic Mock]

Pmsl at Toy Soldier and Livia.

[Kizzy]

Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.

I have, it's rare.. but I have.



They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.

Who are 'they', am I they...is Corbyn they?

[kirklancaster]

Illuminating article from The Spectator;

Why do leftists care more about Muslims than they do about Jews? If that sounds confrontational, consider this: this week, the Met Police released the latest hate-crime figures for London. They show that offences against Jews have risen by 93% over the past year, while offences against Muslims have risen by 70%. And guess which story the BBC, Guardian and Independent, those voices of the British liberal conscience, have chosen to flag up? Yep, the 70% hike in Islamophobic attacks, not the nearly 100% hike in anti-Semitic offences.

The BBC’s headline is ‘Islamophobic crime in London “up by 70%”‘. The Guardian‘s is ‘Hate crimes against Muslims soar in London’. The Indie opts for ‘Hate crimes against Muslims in London “up by 70%”‘. What about the crimes against Jews? Sorry, no room for those. They aren’t mentioned. Whether as a result of how the cops chose to press-release their new figures or how editors chose to interpret them, or maybe a bit of both, someone down the line has taken the decision that a bashed-up or verbally abused Muslim is more newsworthy than a bashed-up or verbally abused Jew.

This is becoming increasingly common. For some reason, so-called progressives, especially those of a leftist bent, are made more upset by hatred of Muslims than they are by hatred of Jews. It’s why the very people – Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Diane Abbott, every leftie on Twitter – who normally rail against racism, and against the people who rub shoulders with racists, could in essence say ‘What’s all the fuss?!’ when it was revealed Jeremy Corbyn had been hanging out with Holocaust deniers.

[Alt-Text]
It’s why every bovine attack on a mosque is held up as hard evidence that Europe is descending into a cesspool of anti-Muslim hatred, whereas you have to scour the media to find mentions of attacks on synagogues. In recent days, a Manchester teen was beaten up in a suspected anti-Semitic assault; a Jewish Spanish teenager was physically attacked; and two Holocaust survivors in Amsterdam were assaulted and called ‘dirty Jews’. Yet these incidents aren’t frontpage news; certainly they aren’t cited as evidence that a new plague of prejudice is stalking Europe, as is done when Muslims are assaulted. The message of this double standard, however implicit it might be, is pretty clear: attacks on Jews are less important than attacks on Muslims.

The extent to which chattering-class concern for Muslims trumps concern for Jews reached its nadir when four Jews were murdered in a Parisian deli shortly after the massacre at Charlie Hebdo. Pretty much every liberal newspaper in Europe continued thundering on about the potential for an ‘Islamophobic backlash’ following the Charlie killings, even as Jews were being killed. On the morning the four dead Jews were being put on a flight for burial in Israel, George Clooney was telling fawning hacks how worried he was about ‘anti-Muslim fervour’ in Europe. It’s surreal. Some people seem more worried about possible attacks on Muslims than by actual attacks on Jews.

And now, a hike in anti-Muslim crimes in London is given greater media prominence than a larger hike in anti-Jewish attacks. This implicit demotion of Jewish problems, this judgement that crimes against Jews aren’t all that serious, needs some explanation. I think there are two reasons for it.

The first is that flagging up attacks on Muslims allows the left to indulge some prejudices of their own, especially about the dumb, tabloid-reading hordes, whom they view as being one iffy Richard Littlejohn column away from organising a demented anti-Muslim pogrom. The liberal elite’s myopic focus on Islamophobia is really an expression of distrust for the insufficiently multicultural, apparently Western-centric masses.

The second reason is that many on the left seem to think anti-Semitism is politically justified. From Karen Armstrong’s insistence that the deli attack in Paris ‘had nothing to do with anti-Semitism’ and rather was ‘about Palestine’ to various commentators’ claims that anti-Semitism in Europe is the inevitable byproduct of Israel’s antics in the Middle East, many very respectable people now view assaults on Jews almost as a form of protest, as political rather than hateful.

That’s the terrifying message of the media and leftists’ implicit downgrading of the seriousness of anti-Semitism. Whether they’re excusing these crimes or simply acquiescing to them, they’re giving a green light to anti-Semitism.

[kirklancaster]

Sadiq Khan: I wear badge of shame over anti-Semitism in Labour

Labour mayoral candidate Sadiq Khan today said he wears a “badge of shame” because of anti-Semitism in his party.

He attacked Labour’s leadership for not taking a “tougher stance” and said he knew what it was to “suffer hate crime”, before adding: “I also know it’s unacceptable in 2016 that there is anti-Semitism in the Labour party.

“It’s with sorrow that I wear that badge of shame.” He added: “If it means members of my party, senior members of my party including members of [Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee] being trained about what anti-Semitism is, then so be it.”

NEC members include party leader Jeremy Corbyn. At a hustings organised by the London Jewish Forum, Jewish news and JW3 in Finchley Road, Mr Khan added: “I have said at the outset, I’m embarrassed and sorrowful about anti-Semitism in the party.

"I think the Labour leadership could have taken a tougher stance and needs to take a tougher stance.”

It comes after Mr Corbyn’s brother was dragged into the furore for comments relating to Jewish Labour MP Louise Ellman.

After she called for tougher action on anti-Semitism in the party, Piers Corbyn described her remarks as “absurd” and tweeted: “#Zionists cant cope with any-one supporting rights for #Palestine.”

The Sun reported that Jeremy Corbyn responded saying: “My brother has his point of view, I have mine and we actually fundamentally agree. We are a family that were brought up fighting racism from the day we were born.”

[kirklancaster]

Jeremy Corbyn's brother attacks 'Zionist' Jewish Labour MP

Labour has been rocked by a series of anti-Semitic incidents in recent weeks

JEREMY Corbyn has been caught up in another anti-Semitism row – after his BROTHER attacked a “Zionist” Jewish Labour MP.

Just two weeks after Labour leader Corbyn promised to do more to tackle anti-Semitism within his own party, astrophysicist and weather expert Piers Corbyn has landed him in more hot water.

Responding to a story about Jewish Labour MP Louise Ellman saying not enough is being done to tackle the problem within the party, he defended those accused and wrote: “Zionists can’t cope with anyone supporting rights for Palestine.”

Weather forecaster Corbyn has previous form with contentious tweets, including one linking Israel with ISIS.

In November last year, he retweeted a post from openly anti-Semitic Twitter account @RealFKNews – whose bio says “expose the Holocaust Hoax” - promoting a conspiracy theory suggesting Israel is in cahoots with ISIS.

When challenged about the allegation, Piers, who is not thought to be a member of the Labour party any more, wrote he simply retweeted it to “get an answer.”

He also responded in 2014 to an article about the Iranian Supreme Leader calling for Muslims to arm Hamas with this capitalised tweet saying “ISRAEL WILL REAP A WHIRLWIND.”

It comes after a string of anti-Semitic incidents within the Labour party.

Vicki Kirby, the vice chair of the Labour's Woking branch, was promoted despite tweeting that Jews have "big noses" and "slaughter the oppressed", before calls for Corbyn to suspend her.

In the past few days, it has also emerged that Labour councillor and former Lord Mayor of Bradford Khadim Hussain was suspended from the Party after promoting a cartoon on social media bemoaning the emphasis schools place on teaching the Holocaust "and the six million Zionists that were killed."


HOW REVEALING THAT ANTI-SEMITIC PIERS CORBYN DISGUSTINGLY STATES ALL THE ABOVE (AND MORE) YET LABOUR LEADER JEREMY CORBYN SUPPORTS HIM AND STATES;

“My brother has his point of view, I have mine and we actually fundamentally agree."

[Kizzy]

Illuminating article from The Spectator;

Why do leftists care more about Muslims than they do about Jews? If that sounds confrontational, consider this: this week, the Met Police released the latest hate-crime figures for London. They show that offences against Jews have risen by 93% over the past year, while offences against Muslims have risen by 70%. And guess which story the BBC, Guardian and Independent, those voices of the British liberal conscience, have chosen to flag up? Yep, the 70% hike in Islamophobic attacks, not the nearly 100% hike in anti-Semitic offences.

The BBC’s headline is ‘Islamophobic crime in London “up by 70%”‘. The Guardian‘s is ‘Hate crimes against Muslims soar in London’. The Indie opts for ‘Hate crimes against Muslims in London “up by 70%”‘. What about the crimes against Jews? Sorry, no room for those. They aren’t mentioned. Whether as a result of how the cops chose to press-release their new figures or how editors chose to interpret them, or maybe a bit of both, someone down the line has taken the decision that a bashed-up or verbally abused Muslim is more newsworthy than a bashed-up or verbally abused Jew.

This is becoming increasingly common. For some reason, so-called progressives, especially those of a leftist bent, are made more upset by hatred of Muslims than they are by hatred of Jews. It’s why the very people – Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Diane Abbott, every leftie on Twitter – who normally rail against racism, and against the people who rub shoulders with racists, could in essence say ‘What’s all the fuss?!’ when it was revealed Jeremy Corbyn had been hanging out with Holocaust deniers.

[Alt-Text]
It’s why every bovine attack on a mosque is held up as hard evidence that Europe is descending into a cesspool of anti-Muslim hatred, whereas you have to scour the media to find mentions of attacks on synagogues. In recent days, a Manchester teen was beaten up in a suspected anti-Semitic assault; a Jewish Spanish teenager was physically attacked; and two Holocaust survivors in Amsterdam were assaulted and called ‘dirty Jews’. Yet these incidents aren’t frontpage news; certainly they aren’t cited as evidence that a new plague of prejudice is stalking Europe, as is done when Muslims are assaulted. The message of this double standard, however implicit it might be, is pretty clear: attacks on Jews are less important than attacks on Muslims.

The extent to which chattering-class concern for Muslims trumps concern for Jews reached its nadir when four Jews were murdered in a Parisian deli shortly after the massacre at Charlie Hebdo. Pretty much every liberal newspaper in Europe continued thundering on about the potential for an ‘Islamophobic backlash’ following the Charlie killings, even as Jews were being killed. On the morning the four dead Jews were being put on a flight for burial in Israel, George Clooney was telling fawning hacks how worried he was about ‘anti-Muslim fervour’ in Europe. It’s surreal. Some people seem more worried about possible attacks on Muslims than by actual attacks on Jews.

And now, a hike in anti-Muslim crimes in London is given greater media prominence than a larger hike in anti-Jewish attacks. This implicit demotion of Jewish problems, this judgement that crimes against Jews aren’t all that serious, needs some explanation. I think there are two reasons for it.

The first is that flagging up attacks on Muslims allows the left to indulge some prejudices of their own, especially about the dumb, tabloid-reading hordes, whom they view as being one iffy Richard Littlejohn column away from organising a demented anti-Muslim pogrom. The liberal elite’s myopic focus on Islamophobia is really an expression of distrust for the insufficiently multicultural, apparently Western-centric masses.

The second reason is that many on the left seem to think anti-Semitism is politically justified. From Karen Armstrong’s insistence that the deli attack in Paris ‘had nothing to do with anti-Semitism’ and rather was ‘about Palestine’ to various commentators’ claims that anti-Semitism in Europe is the inevitable byproduct of Israel’s antics in the Middle East, many very respectable people now view assaults on Jews almost as a form of protest, as political rather than hateful.

That’s the terrifying message of the media and leftists’ implicit downgrading of the seriousness of anti-Semitism. Whether they’re excusing these crimes or simply acquiescing to them, they’re giving a green light to anti-Semitism.

Initially that sounds very bad, unless you consider what the figures for the previous year were... if there were say 10 attacks for one group and 1000 for another then the rise would be no less concerning but the response significantly different.

[Kizzy]

Personally I'd say it was the rise and rise of the far right movements that has created the increase in antisemitism, they don't like Muslims or the Jewish do they?

[Livia]

Personally, I'm not really bothered about knowing who hates us more, the left or the right. The Jews have been oppressed, murdered, exiled, detested, like I said earlier, for millennia. The word "ghetto" might mean something different now, but it's derived from a Hebrew word, ghettos were initially areas of cities where Jews were "allowed" to live. We've lasted as a people for well over 5000 years despite regular bouts of genocide and still people say stuff like "yeah but, you people own Hollywood", or "Jews aren't liked because they own all the banks". Both those comments have been made on this forum. The Jewish religion doesn't recruit, I'm pretty sure there aren't any Jewish terrorists blowing up the west... yet we're still hated by people on the right and on the left. Despite everything the human race has been through and everything we know... we're not really any further forward.

[Ninastar]

im up for joining whoever hates the jews the most

[Ninastar]

(im joking Livia.... i love you really)

[Livia]

im up for joining whoever hates the jews the most

I'm watching you, Missy......

[MTVN]

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

[lostalex]

Personally, I'm not really bothered about knowing who hates us more, the left or the right. The Jews have been oppressed, murdered, exiled, detested, like I said earlier, for millennia. The word "ghetto" might mean something different now, but it's derived from a Hebrew word, ghettos were initially areas of cities where Jews were "allowed" to live. We've lasted as a people for well over 5000 years despite regular bouts of genocide and still people say stuff like "yeah but, you people own Hollywood", or "Jews aren't liked because they own all the banks". Both those comments have been made on this forum. The Jewish religion doesn't recruit, I'm pretty sure there aren't any Jewish terrorists blowing up the west... yet we're still hated by people on the right and on the left. Despite everything the human race has been through and everything we know... we're not really any further forward.

unless you count the West Bank...

[Kizzy]

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

Not saying your right, but you say that like it's somehow more acceptable to hate Jewish people due to to conspiracy theories.
If both sides 'hate' the Jews then are not both sides equally unjustified?

[DemolitionRed]

I try not to get overly involved in debates about Gaza because I'm married to a none practising Jew and according to him and his family, I am Jewish because my ancestral maternal line is Jewish, though not since the early nineteen hundreds.

Anti-semitism and not liking Bibi's oppressive government are not the same thing.

[MTVN]

Not saying your right, but you say that like it's somehow more acceptable to hate Jewish people due to to conspiracy theories.
If both sides 'hate' the Jews then are not both sides equally unjustified?

Well I didn't intend to imply that, if anything I think I was saying the other way round that the right's anti-semitism is more unhinged, not that that makes it 'worse' exactly

[Kizzy]

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?

[bots]

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?

not when it manifests as anti semitism

[Ninastar]

TBH if I'm gonna be really stereotypical or w.e the right phrase is, I think the Left is more 'All religion is bad apart from Muslims!!!!!!!!' where as the right is more 'All Religion is great apart from Muslims!!!!'

[Kizzy]

not when it manifests as anti semitism

How could that happen?
If you are anti war then you are against the ideology of war, ( all war) not religious belief.
The only way that could be misconstrued is if it was spun intentionally to do so.

[user104658]

Could anti war be confused with anti-semitism at times though to further an agenda?
Of course, accusations of anti-semitism will be used to try to shut down all sorts of discussions, on the assumption that people will be "too scared to go there".

[MTVN]

not when it manifests as anti semitism

Exactly. Howard Jacobson always talks a lot of sense about it:

Alone of prejudices, anti-Zionism is sacrosanct. How very dare we distinguish the motivation of one sort from another? Or question, in any instance, an anti-Zionist’s good faith? In fact, what determines whether anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic is the nature of it. Question Israel’s conduct of recent wars and you won’t find many Jews, in Israel or outside it, who disagree with you. Join Hamas in calling for the destruction of the Jewish state, as the prime instigator of all evil, and you’re on shakier ground.

In an apparent softening of party tone, Corbyn’s warm-up man, the journalist Owen Jones, recently reprimanded the Left for its ingrained anti-Semitism. Welcome words, but they will remain only words so long as the Corbynite Left – and indeed the not-so Corbynite Left – refuses to acknowledge the degree to which anti-Semitism is snarled up in the before and after of Israelophobia. The Stop The War Coalition is a sort of home to Jew-haters because its hate music about Israel is so catchy. It simplifies a complex and heartbreaking conflict, it elides causes and effects, it perpetuates a fable that flatters one side and demonises another, it ignores all instances of intransigence and cruelty but one, inflaming hatred and enabling the very racism it declares itself opposed to.

Let’s forget whether or not anti-Semitism is the root of this. It is sufficient that it is the consequence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-may-say-hes-not-anti-semitic-but-associating-with-the-people-he-does-is-its-own-crime-10487318.html

[Kizzy]

'Let’s forget whether or not anti-Semitism is the root of this. It is sufficient that it is the consequence.'

This is in itself a nonsensical statement.
In essence it means no matter your ideology should someone either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpret it, it's your fault.

[DemolitionRed]

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

There are plenty of left leaning conspiracy theorists but they don't stoop as low as suggesting the holocaust never happened.

Left leaning people tend to be more atheist than right leaning people and therefore, don't look at the religion but at the troubles and the person/people involved. Most left wing people believe that everybody has a right to live on that land in safety and security and therefore "Jew" and "Israel" and "Muslims and "Palestine" are not the same thing. It would be ignorant to assume otherwise.

Right leaning Protestant Christians embrace Israel because it is the landing zone for "The second coming" and they want to be sure that zone is under Western authority when Jesus comes back to spirit them off.

[user104658]

Right leaning Protestant Christians embrace Israel because it is the landing zone for "The second coming" and they want to be sure that zone is under Western authority when Jesus comes back to spirit them off.

What I find hilarious is, if Jesus was real and really could do magic tricks and stuff, and he did return... no one would actually believe it :joker:. Everyone's a skeptic these days.

He would be like "I have returned! Behold my miracles!"

And the people who were there would be like "lol yeah right I bet I know how he did it. My mate John said he could even see the strings pmsl"

And the people seeing pictures and videos from home would be like "Haha yeah OK. Photoshop / green-screen. Fake."

[DemolitionRed]

What I find hilarious is, if Jesus was real and really could do magic tricks and stuff, and he did return... no one would actually believe it :joker:. Everyone's a skeptic these days.

He would be like "I have returned! Behold my miracles!"

And the people who were there would be like "lol yeah right I bet I know how he did it. My mate John said he could even see the strings pmsl"

And the people seeing pictures and videos from home would be like "Haha yeah OK. Photoshop / green-screen. Fake."

The Jews would certainly have a good laugh because they don't believe in the 2nd coming but in the mean time, they're happy to get political support :joker:

[user104658]

The Jews would certainly have a good laugh because they don't believe in the 2nd coming but in the mean time, they're happy to get political support :joker:

It could all get really confusing if the J-man does turn up, couldn't it? The Jews would be like "He's finally here!", and the Christians be like "He's back!". What a pickle.

[waterhog]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:

My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too :)


very interesting post but a song springs to mind to help me explain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWmlRNfLck

[letmein]

I think the reason that the left has such an issue with Jewish people is because a lot of Jewish people are business minded so are more likely to be right wing, hence why I think some of the left has an issue with Jewish people.

And also there are your racist left (which I know isn't very common) but it does exist, but I think as the secondry thing to the usual right versus left scenario.

What can be ironic with the left though is that they probably defend one of the most right wing organizations out there.:joker:

And btw I'm on about in their day to day lives, not with terrorism.

Jews are overwhelmingly left-wing.

[bots]

Jews are overwhelmingly left-wing.

Livia, our voice from the left :joker:

[Kizzy]

Livia, our voice from the left :joker:

I almost choked on my falafel then :)

[kirklancaster]

There has been a problem with the left and anti-semitism for a long time I think. It's different from the far-right - they hate Jews because of mad conspiracies about them controlling money and governments and the like - on the left the issue derives from their 'solidarity' with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and their hatred for Israel. It is they who confuse anti-zionism with anti-semitism, not their critics.

So true. You have it in one Matt.

[kirklancaster]

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?

You are correct about 'One-sided sympathy' Josh, but a much better phrase would be 'WRONG sided sympathy', because the greater majority who have sympathy for the Palestinians and who detest and blame Israel, are simply swallowing propaganda and do not know the truth or the history.

[lostalex]

what i will say about the idea of a power imbalance in the middle east, when people on the left specifically like to say that Jews and Israel have the scales tipped in their favor because of support from the USA and other western countries...i would say that the Palestinians should have the same support from their supposed Arab friends, so why isn't there the same support from huge rich muslim countries like Saudi, and UAE, or even Indonesia, why do the other arab/muslim countries leave Palestine high and dry?

There must be a reason. instead they just use it as an issue to bash the USA, but they don't actually provide any actual support to the Palestinian people. why??

[kirklancaster]

what i will say about the idea of a power imbalance in the middle east, when people on the left specifically like to say that Jews and Israel have the scales tipped in their favor because of support from the USA and other western countries...i would say that the Palestinians should have the same support from their supposed Arab friends, so why isn't there the same support from huge rich muslim countries like Saudi, and UAE, or even Indonesia, why do the other arab/muslim countries leave Palestine high and dry?

There must be a reason. instead they just use it as an issue to bash the USA, but they don't actually provide any actual support to the Palestinian people. why??

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Another insightful post Alex.