Jeremy Corbyn: Children Should Be Taught About Suffering Under British Empire

[letmein]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03454/jeremy-corbyn-labo_3454900b.jpg

Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, says that children should be taught how the British Empire expanded 'at the expense of people'

Every child should be taught about the negative impact and suffering caused by the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.

Mr Corbyn told young Labour supporters that the national curriculum should be re-written to teach children about how the Empire expanded "at the expense of people".

He also suggested that the curriculum should be changed so that every child should be taught about the importance of the trade unions, his biggest backers.


He said: "Perhaps we could do a little bit more about how history is taught in our schools.

"Of course the history of European expansion is important, but there are two other things that need to be added to that.

"One is the expansion of one empire at the expense of people where that empire is expanding.

"You need to get the story from the people where that empire is expanding into rather than those that came there to take control of it."

It came after Mr Corbyn earlier suggested that that Trotskyists and communists are welcome in the Labour Party as long as they accept its values.
"

Children should be taught about how people around the World suffered because of the rise of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.
The Labour leader told an audience of young supporters that he would like to see the national curriculum re-written to take into account the damaging impacts of British imperialism such as the slave trade.

He also suggested that the history curriculum should be changed so that every child should be taught about the importance of the trade unions, his biggest backers.

It came after Mr Corbyn suggested that Trotskyists and Communists are welcome in the Labour party and would not be thrown out as long as they accepted its values.

In a BBC interview on the eve of the party conference in Brighton, he was asked by presenter Andrew Marr: “Thirty years ago almost to the day, just down the coast, Neil Kinnock kicked out the Trotskyists and the Communists from the Labour Party. Are they welcome back in again?”

Mr Corbyn replied: “Anyone is welcome to join the Labour Party providing they support the principles of the party and be content with that.

“And thousands have joined the Labour Party in the last few weeks. Fifty thousand, maybe 60,000 have joined since I was elected two weeks ago, 150,000 have joined since the General Election. This is a growing, enthusiastic, optimistic party.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11895043/Children-should-be-taught-about-suffering-under-the-British-Empire-Jeremy-Corbyn-says.html

[Niamh.]

Funnily enough the vast majority of Irish history revolves around us fighting the British empire and trying to get our country back :idc:

[jennyjuniper]

He should also mention that when the British left India the nation split in two and have been murdering each other ever since.

[Niamh.]

He should also mention that when the British left India the nation split in two and have been murdering each other ever since.

So those Indians should have been grateful that the British took them over in the first place? ummm

[Kizzy]

:clap1: bang on Corbyn, what made Britain 'great' was murder.

[user104658]

They should be taught the philosophy of morality and abstract thought, and then taught history as accurately as possible without judgement or bias, and be given the chance to form their own conclusions. This should apply in every country.

Unfortunately, those things won't happen. Kids are taught rigid, formulaic thinking alongside a version of history tailored to whichever country they happen to be learning it in.

[jennyjuniper]

So those Indians should have been grateful that the British took them over in the first place? ummm

Not necessarily. I'm just pointing out that there are two sides to a story.
Also if children are being taught about the 'evils of empire', they should also be taught the good things that Britain has acheived. Give them some pride in their own country. As it is Corbyn and his ilk are the ones who want us to wear the welcome mats for the world to wipe it's feet on.

[joeysteele]

I don't know if there is much merit in teaching this to children now, however to build that empire some really horrible atrocities were carried out across the Globe.

It is part of history however and the building of the Empire should not just be a glossy mag full of so called good bits in its presentation of same..

[Niamh.]

Not necessarily. I'm just pointing out that there are two sides to a story.
Also if children are being taught about the 'evils of empire', they should also be taught the good things that Britain has acheived. Give them some pride in their own country. As it is Corbyn and his ilk are the ones who want us to wear the welcome mats for the world to wipe it's feet on.

How is that a second side to the story?

[Tom4784]

I'm all for it. The Empire was built on the blood of innocents. We shouldn't withhold the truth because it's ugly.

[Shaun]

I don't see the contention... empires have always committed genocide, rape, plundering and slavery. Some still are. Teaching the reality of history is...well...that's what teaching is supposed to be, right?

Being aware of your country's past atrocities =/= being ashamed of what it's like today. I dare say the majority of people who hate on traits of modern Britain are usually the ones complaining about a lack of patriotic pride.

[Cherie]

Funnily enough the vast majority of Irish history revolves around us fighting the British empire and trying to get our country back :idc:

Fair enough but isn't it time we moved on, teaching history is fine but it's history, I remember my grandmother actually hating the English with a passion as her brother had been shot by the Black and Tans, her son went on to marry an English girl and in her later years she relented her position. If we continue to have hang ups based on history we will never move forward, I'd hate to be an Italian on Norwegian as the Romans and the Vikings have a lot to answer for :joker: Should the current English generations hang their head in shame for their colonial past..no, did the British people have any say when Tony Blair took us into Iraq or Cameron involved us in Syria?

[Niamh.]

Fair enough but isn't it time we moved on, teaching history is fine but it's history, I remember my grandmother actually hating the English with a passion as her brother had been shot by the Black and Tans, her son went on to marry an English girl and in her later years she relented her position. If we continue to have hang ups based on history we will never move forward, I'd hate to be an Italian on Norwegian as the Romans and the Vikings have a lot to answer for :joker: Should the current English generations hang their head in shame for their colonial past..no, did the British people have any say when Tony Blair took us into Iraq or Cameron involved us in Syria?

Who said anything about having hang ups about it. I just said it should be taught as it is a part of their history :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Fair enough but isn't it time we moved on, teaching history is fine but it's history, I remember my grandmother actually hating the English with a passion as her brother had been shot by the Black and Tans, her son went on to marry an English girl and in her later years she relented her position. If we continue to have hang ups based on history we will never move forward, I'd hate to be an Italian on Norwegian as the Romans and the Vikings have a lot to answer for :joker: Should the current English generations hang their head in shame for their colonial past..no, did the British people have any say when Tony Blair took us into Iraq or Cameron involved us in Syria?

Nobody is suggesting they should, To simply be made aware and acknowledge our history shouldn't be that contentious an issue, unless it's felt that we may from it be perceived in a less than perfect light.
As we know it's every other country that are grasping marauding usurpers... not us.

[Cherie]

Who said anything about having hang ups about it. I just said it should be taught as it is a part of their history :shrug:


Corbyn is hung up in it, I'm biased as I hated Irish history in school :fist:

Nobody is suggesting they should, To simply be made aware and acknowledge our history shouldn't be that contentious an issue, unless it's felt that we may from it be perceived in a less than perfect light.
As we know it's every other country that are grasping marauding usurpers... not us.

Pretty sure some areas of the history curriculum must touch on it :suspect:

[Niamh.]

Corbyn is hung up in it, I'm biased as I hated Irish history in school :fist:



Pretty sure some areas of the history curriculum must touch on it :suspect:

That's because it was so depressing and you know who's fault that is :hee:

[Cherie]

That's because it was so depressing and you know who's fault that is :hee:

That is so true, those awful Sasanachs :fist:

[Niamh.]

That is so true, those awful Sasanachs :fist:

:fan:

[the truth]

the funny thing is the empire was built on nothing so exciting or headline grabbing, the empire was built on the industrial revolution, namely cannonballs , copper and coal....the copper at the bottom of our ships made british ships unsinkable...67% of the worlds copper was produced in Swansea. the welsh were the only people who could produce pure copper as they had been making it for 4000 years at the great orme in Llandudno north wales , a wonderful place well worth a visit. I guarantee you less than 1% of brits even know that, our ignorance is staggering and is perpetuated by our elitist education system

[Kizzy]

http://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/history/gcse/history-8145/subject-content/shaping-the-nation#id-Migration_and_Empire_Britain_s_changing_identity_c 1000AD_present_day_1_3_1_3

The syllabus has changed, I hope the information is presented in context.

[Tom4784]

I can't remember being taught anything that painted the Empire in a bad light, hell I wasn't really aware that we were involved in the slave trade until I looked it up after watching 12 years a Slave.

I can only hope that the History syllabus has become more balanced since I was in School.

[lostalex]

The British empire was a million times worse than Slavery in America or The German Nazi holocaust. of course it should be taught to children for what it was... a complete humanitarian disaster.

[DemolitionRed]

I did some of my education in the French school system where we were taught that the French won the war (virtually single handedly) and that the Brits were supposed to be our allies but dropped more bombs on French civilians than the Germans ever did.

One of my closest friends was educated in the US and she was taught to believe that America won the 2nd world war and stopped the German invasion into the UK.

History is scewed by each and every country. The only exception is probably 'former' west Germany.

I was never taught about the former white slave ships that enslaved thousands of Irish people or the blood on our hands when forming the British Empire.

History is important when we can learn valuable lessons from it.

[lostalex]

I did some of my education in the French school system where we were taught that the French won the war (virtually single handedly) and that the Brits were supposed to be our allies but dropped more bombs on French civilians than the Germans ever did.

One of my closest friends was educated in the US and she was taught to believe that America won the 2nd world war and stopped the German invasion into the UK.

History is scewed by each and every country. The only exception is probably 'former' west Germany.

I was never taught about the former white slave ships that enslaved thousands of Irish people or the blood on our hands when forming the British Empire.

History is important when we can learn valuable lessons from it.

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

[Niamh.]

I can't remember being taught anything that painted the Empire in a bad light, hell I wasn't really aware that we were involved in the slave trade until I looked it up after watching 12 years a Slave.

I can only hope that the History syllabus has become more balanced since I was in School.

Did you know that an estimated 1 million Irish people died and another million left Ireland during the Irish Potato Famine and all the while that this was happening food was being shipped from Ireland to England under military guard

[Tom4784]

Did you know that an estimated 1 million Irish people died and another million left Ireland during the Irish Potato Famine and all the while that this was happening food was being shipped from Ireland to England under military guard

Nothing of the sort, I was never taught anything of Irish history. I was only lucky enough to receive the botched version of English History, I can't tell you anything about Scottish or Welsh history either.

[Niamh.]

Nothing of the sort, I was never taught anything of Irish history. I was only lucky enough to receive the botched version of English History, I can't tell you anything about Scottish or Welsh history either.

The million who left Ireland mostly left on ships heading for America known as "coffin ships" I'm sure you can guess why........not too dissimilar from what's going on now actually with Syrian refugees etc

[Tom4784]

The million who left Ireland mostly left on ships heading for America known as "coffin ships" I'm sure you can guess why........not too dissimilar from what's going on now actually with Syrian refugees etc

History will always repeat itself although not always in the same fashion.

[Niamh.]

History will always repeat itself although not always in the same fashion.

Yeah, true enough. Infact pictures of those coffin ships were posted around alot here to remind us that we were once in a similar situation, people forget, maybe that's why a reminder of such things can give people some perspective or make it more relate able

[the truth]

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.


lol yes and bruce willis was winston churchill:cheer2::cheer2:

[DemolitionRed]

America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

Oh I'm sure, if it wasn't for America, we would all be speaking German now. God bless America :worship:

:smug:

[jennyjuniper]

How is that a second side to the story?

That Empire isn't always all bad or all good.

[Niamh.]

That Empire isn't always all bad or all good.

Yeah it really doesn't prove that at all but whatever

[jennyjuniper]

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

America only decided to enter the war when Pearl Harbour was bombed. Britain had been asking for the Yanks to help stop Hitler for a long time before they actually complied.
I am so sick of Americans thinking that they solely were responsible for every victory.

[VanessaFeltz.]

History lessons should be objective and neutral. For example if british empire did something bad than it should be taught or if british empire did something good than it should be taught too.

Also If you live in a country you should know about every single culture which has been on the land not just only the dominant culture/country.

Unfortunately countries around the world are biased about their history so they dont tell history %100 objectively

[the truth]

OH BUT we cant possibly know the pure evil, rape and mass murder of the monarchy throughout their entire sick history

[MTVN]

So those Indians should have been grateful that the British took them over in the first place? ummm

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

[bots]

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

[Kizzy]

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

As tax havens?
We're still as exploitative today as we ever were.

[the truth]

the british empire was horrific in many parts, just 100 years ago we invented concentration camps which lead to the deaths of tens of thousands

[Niamh.]

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

All we got from "the empire" was our language taken from us, our lands taken from us, our people starving to death on the streets eventhough there was plenty of food in Ireland at the time it was just shipped abroad to feed English people while our own people either starved or were forced to leave. And do tell what is "the correct" way to invade a country? :think:

[Niamh.]

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

Sorry Matt, i usually agree with your opinions but that's such a maddening statement. You were better off being invaded by us? whhhhaaattt. Would you feel the same if it were England having been taken over by the Germans or whatever? I doubt it very much. How could you possibly know what India would be like now if Britain had never gone near them in the first place? And regardless, that "you're better off" reasoning is just so offensive

[Livia]

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

True.

The Empire did some dispicable things, but it also did some good things. India's system of government and it's railway system for a start. And of course, what took the place of the Empire - the Commonwealth - is a great institution. And anyone who thinks it isn't should ask themselves why countries who were never part of the Empire choose to be a part of the Commonwealth.

I think it's time we stopped being encouraged to beat ourselves up about things that were done decades, centuries, before our time while learning about what happened. But this means recognising the good as well as the bad. Lots of bad things were done in the past that should be remembered, but we should also keep in mind that, in the words of LP Hartley, the past is a different country, they do things differently there.

[Kizzy]

Oh 'the sins of the father' and so on and so forth... That's until it suits to do otherwise.

All that is being suggested is that history isn't creatively re written.
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

[Niamh.]

True.

The Empire did some dispicable things, but it also did some good things. India's system of government and it's railway system for a start. And of course, what took the place of the Empire - the Commonwealth - is a great institution. And anyone who thinks it isn't should ask themselves why countries who were never part of the Empire choose to be a part of the Commonwealth.

I think it's time we stopped being encouraged to beat ourselves up about things that were done decades, centuries, before our time while learning about what happened. But this means recognising the good as well as the bad. Lots of bad things were done in the past that should be remembered, but we should also keep in mind that, in the words of LP Hartley, the past is a different country, they do things differently there.

^^ Very easy to make a statement like that when your country was the oppressor in the scenario though..........

[Niamh.]

Imagine saying, you know slavery wasn't so bad, those black people are better off now they live in America anyway........

[Kizzy]

Imagine saying, you know slavery wasn't so bad, those black people are better off now they live in America anyway........

Good point Niamh.

[Beso]

he isn't asking for much, maybe some of the future academies will.

[Beso]

^^ Very easy to make a statement like that when your country was the oppressor in the scenario though..........

get over it, we forgave the romans.

[Denver]

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

All the Yanks did was fight the Japanese when they was attacked, had they not been attacked they would not of got involved it bloody sickens me that they try take full credit

[Kizzy]

get over it, we forgave the romans.

How do we know the Romans invaded? It was taught.
There was no embellishment, no watering down of the facts and no bias.
If the teaching of British colonialism is as honest then that gets an A* from me.

[Niamh.]

get over it, we forgave the romans.

Romans were a little bit longer ago though but cheers for the advice captain

[Crimson Dynamo]

i am sure we will get round to it once the abject failure of communism and socialism have been dealt with


:idc:

[Kizzy]

i am sure we will get round to it once the abject failure of communism and socialism have been dealt with


:idc:

Yes and while we sit and contemplate foreign govts owning our industry, infrastructure and property we can congratulate ourselves on how successful venture capitalism is.

[MTVN]

Sorry Matt, i usually agree with your opinions but that's such a maddening statement. You were better off being invaded by us? whhhhaaattt. Would you feel the same if it were England having been taken over by the Germans or whatever? I doubt it very much. How could you possibly know what India would be like now if Britain had never gone near them in the first place? And regardless, that "you're better off" reasoning is just so offensive

I don't think its offensive because the Indians themselves played a huge part in how their country was run under the Empire. This is a good article by a British-Indian which gives a fair assessment: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1298569/Britain-need-make-apology-India-Empire-.html

A few of its points:


Of course, Empire was not a purely altruistic enterprise. Britain reaped enormous profits from India at the expense of its growth.

It prohibited industrialisation and kept the vast bulk of Indians in a state of abject poverty, growing cotton or mining metals that would then be sent to the factories and mills of northern England...

But these bleak facts should not obscure the fact that British rule in India was a joint effort, impossible without the widespread co- operation of Indians themselves...

Indians assisted with Empire because it brought them unprecedented order and civility. Indians were no strangers to outside rulers; for eight centuries before the Raj, the sub-continent had been subjected to the plunder and depravity of the Mughals - Muslim rulers who came from as far west as Turkey.
...

In 1846, the British commissioner, John Lawrence, told the local elite that Punjabis could no longer burn their widows, commit female infanticide, nor bury their lepers alive...

In addition to combating these barbaric practices, the British also outlawed slavery in 1843 at a time when an estimated 10 million Indians were slaves - up to 15 per cent of the population in some regions.
...

Yes, British rule was exploitative and took away more than it provided, but compared to what Indians had known previously, there was much to be thankful for.

This gratitude expressed itself in 1939 when, at the height of the independence movement led by Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi, two million Indians nonetheless enlisted in the fight against fascism - the largest volunteer army in history.

It's no overstatement to say that, without the British, Indians would not even know what it is to be Indian.

After 800 years of Mughal rule, Hindu culture was in terminal decline and it was the likes of Warren Hastings and William Jones, the founders of the Asiatic Society, who began the collection and renewed study of India's ancient texts, educating Indians about their own rich and unique past...

For all they extracted from India, the British left behind a practical network of transportation, governance and values without which India would not be the dynamic democracy it is today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1298569/Britain-need-make-apology-India-Empire-.html

[the truth]

whichever way its told, ghandi was an absolute legend and everyone should be taught about him..
the great pacifists of all time should be taught

[the truth]

kids are not even taught about lloyd george the greatest politician who ever lived, that man did more for working class people than anyone in history