TV Debate Live : Michael Gove MP Sky NewsHD 8PM June 3rd

[arista]

[ITV has also secured two live programmes to be broadcast
in the second week of June. The first will feature
Mr Cameron and UKIP leader Nigel Farage. 7th June
The second will include other politicians putting
their arguments on both sides of the EU debate. 9th June
The cast list for a BBC debate is as
yet unclear, at this time.]


[David Cameron and Michael Gove
will face questions from journalists
and the public during the programmes.
The hour-long event will be broadcast
on Sky News at 8pm on 2 June,
three weeks before the 23 June referendum.
On 3 June, also at 8pm, Justice Secretary
Michael Gove, who is among those
spearheading the Vote Leave campaign,
will be questioned.]


http://news.sky.com/story/1694517/cameron-and-gove-in-eu-vote-shows-on-sky-news

[joeysteele]

I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage but I do admire and respect enormously his never changing position as to his view of the EU and leaving the EU.
So I am glad he is being given this high profile lead as to representing the no side, since really without Nigel Farage, there would never have likely been a EU referendum at all.

At least his sincerity and commitment to the issue cannot be justifiably questioned unlike the turncoats of the likes of Boris Johnson who are using the referendum to achieve further ambitions,not really about the EU at all.

Equally Gove is a good choice for the other one.
My guess is the PM will slay all that come against him on the EU anyway and hopefully the voters will see that the PM,on this issue, is guiding them on the right and better path to stay on.

[bots]

I don't honestly see the point of the debates if its just going to re-hash the same old crap over and over again. We have had months of "debate" already with no-one addressing the fundamental issues. I think it will be a complete waste of time.

[joeysteele]

I don't honestly see the point of the debates if its just going to re-hash the same old crap over and over again. We have had months of "debate" already with no-one addressing the fundamental issues. I think it will be a complete waste of time.

It is actually questions that spoil these debates.
They are left disappointing because of the right questions not being asked or deemed not worthy of time to be.

If you have 2 speakers,have them make their presentations uninterrupted,then a period where they challenge each other.
With then the audience asking on the spot questions, not prepared ones, as to anything not covered by the 2 speakers.

These things when staged come across as false and as you say little is learned at all that is new, or often even relevant.

[Kizzy]

Remember the 'debates' in Leeds before the election, the one with the tory plants? My guess is it'll be a bit like that.

[billy123]

The debates could be great but rarely are.
With this debate i would like to see each side of the fence give 5 reasons why they think to leave/stay would be better but with a right to question each point in between.

i.e. to stay reason 1: because (insert whatever) .questions asked by to leave and replied to by to stay.
to leave reason 1: becaue (insert whatever) .questions asked by to stay and replied to by to leave.
repeat x5

Otherwise it just becomes a who is the most shiny well polished media friendly speaker excercise which has fluff all to do with actual policy.

I also have no interest in listening to an audience opinion. The real audience are sat at home they dont need studio audience input that is too open to manipulation by the media.

[arista]

Remember the 'debates' in Leeds before the election, the one with the tory plants? My guess is it'll be a bit like that.



Sneaky

[Crimson Dynamo]

whilst this will be fun to watch there is not way in hell the vote will be to leave

[billy123]

whilst this will be fun to watch there is not way in hell the vote will be to leaveHave you decided yet?
I havent.

[bots]

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

[billy123]

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499It is media influece however you look at it. Decisions on who should be representing their point of view on tv should be made by each leave/stay campaign not a media company.

I dont know who ITV would prefer to win but i do know their primary reasoning will be tv ratings which is not in the public interest just their own interest.

[bots]

It is media influece however you look at it. Decisions on who should be representing their point of view on tv should be made by each leave/stay campaign not a media company.

I dont know who ITV would prefer to win but i do know their primary reasoning will be tv ratings which is not in the public interest just their own interest.

The moment the debate is shown on a media channel, it is influenced by the media, I've never been comfortable with these "debates"

I do agree that the official representative should put forward who they want for the debate if its an official debate. This is clearly not that though, its just a TV show.

[Kizzy]

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

How can they pit the other two against cameron? They are from his own party, wouldn't that just lead to speculations of massive rifts and leadership challenges that would deflect from the issue.

[bots]

How can they pit the other two against cameron? They are from his own party, wouldn't that just lead to speculations of massive rifts and leadership challenges that would deflect from the issue.

The electoral commission thingy designated vote leave as the official representative for the out campaign. If they are not allowed to choose who represents them in a debate, then the debate can't be designated official. If its not an official debate, and it gets shown on television during the pre-referendum period, then it risks violating the rules of fairness around voting.

Its an interesting one for sure

[Kizzy]

The electoral commission thingy designated vote leave as the official representative for the out campaign. If they are not allowed to choose who represents them in a debate, then the debate can't be designated official. If its not an official debate, and it gets shown on television during the pre-referendum period, then it risks violating the rules of fairness around voting.

Its an interesting one for sure

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP? :hehe:

[bots]

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP? :hehe:

well Farage wasn't given official blessing to lead the out campaign, so he is effectively a concerned citizen the same as you and I ... nothing more :shrug:

[Kizzy]

well Farage wasn't given official blessing to lead the out campaign, so he is effectively a concerned citizen the same as you and I ... nothing more :shrug:

Then the conservatives have shot themselves in the foot, maybe this issue should have been addressed when they took the official leave position (and the 7 million funding?)

[bots]

Then the conservatives have shot themselves in the foot, maybe this issue should have been addressed when they took the official leave position (and the 7 million funding?)

See the problem is that the official party will have a message that they want to put out. It may for example down play immigration. That is their right as the official representatives.

If Farage goes on to the debate and starts spouting about immigration, then that could be seen as damaging the official representatives chances of winning the referendum .... I wouldn't want to be in ITV's shoes if that happens

[joeysteele]

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP? :hehe:

Nothing wrong at all Kizzy in Nigel Farage taking part.

For me he is the one who should be leading the out campaign.
At least when he says anything EU related,you know it is coming from his own experience and sincere determined commitment to the UK leaving the EU.

I don't agree with all he says or his position at present but I will take far more notice of and respect him more than the other turncoats such as Boris Johnson.

[Kizzy]

Yes there was a very generous allowance on offer to lead the campaign, it was always going to go straight back in elite coffers wasn't it? Like most public money.

[MTVN]

Ultimately these things will always seem a bit arbitrary, like with a general election when there's endless debate about which parties are 'big' enough to take part or in America in the primaries where they have to decide which candidates are worthy of a spot on the main televised debate and which take part in the earlier debate which no one watches. ITV are hosting the debate and its their right to pit Cameron and Farage against each other, they're a private broadcaster so have no obligation to anyone surely. Like Joey I think Farage is a perfectly appropriate choice to represent the Leave campaign

[Kizzy]

Are the leave campaign not terrified bojo will just burst into a German rendition of 'Ode to joy'?

[bots]

I'm sure Farage would be a great speaker, but the out brigade couldn't agree enough to come together as a single entity. So the official leave group are variant 1 and he represents variant 2 :laugh:

There are rules that ITV can't breach as the vote approaches, so they will need to be careful, whether they are a private company or not. Given this event isn't likely to happen again any time soon, one would really expect them to stick with protocol.

[arista]

The BBC are doing one a Wembley Arena
still waiting for them to give more details

[arista]

Live tonight
on SkyNewsHD and SkyNewsHD on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
on YouTube link above simply click for 1080P to get Free Full HD
it has less ads shows clips from the World Reports and World Weather
unlike TV


8PM Live with the PM

[arista]

Live Now

[Kizzy]

Thanks Arista.

[_Tom_]

Faisal is brilliant, Cameron rattled already :clap1:

Not one straight answer to a question he's been asked.

[_Tom_]

"Which comes first, World War Three or the global Brexit recession?" - brilliant! :laugh:

[_Tom_]

"I'm an English literature student, I know waffling when I see it!" - Cameron is getting a proper roasting :laugh2:

[Johnnyuk123]

I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage but I do admire and respect enormously his never changing position as to his view of the EU and leaving the EU.
So I am glad he is being given this high profile lead as to representing the no side, since really without Nigel Farage, there would never have likely been a EU referendum at all.

At least his sincerity and commitment to the issue cannot be justifiably questioned unlike the turncoats of the likes of Boris Johnson who are using the referendum to achieve further ambitions,not really about the EU at all.

Equally Gove is a good choice for the other one.
My guess is the PM will slay all that come against him on the EU anyway and hopefully the voters will see that the PM,on this issue, is guiding them on the right and better path to stay on.

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

[_Tom_]

Loving this audience. The PM is getting burned by them with every question.

738457270393163776

:clap1:

[MTVN]

The interview was good but the Q&A was a bit disorganised with people just shouting out instead of putting their hand up.

That literature student was ridiculous as well. Thought she was an expert on the middle east because she's got Moroccan family and obviously had her attack on the PM scripted whatever he said in response to her question. Trying to bang on about Saudi Arabia was not exactly relevant either.

Overall the PM did well and had a good answer to everything I felt, a couple of the questions he was very strong on and left the questioners a bit flummoxed

[joeysteele]

The interview was good but the Q&A was a bit disorganised with people just shouting out instead of putting their hand up.

That literature student was ridiculous as well. Thought she was an expert on the middle east because she's got Moroccan family and obviously had her attack on the PM scripted whatever he said in response to her question. Trying to bang on about Saudi Arabia was not exactly relevant either.

Overall the PM did well and had a good answer to everything I felt, a couple of the questions he was very strong on and left the questioners a bit flummoxed

I'd agree with all that,I also hope Faisal is as demanding and forceful with Michael Gove in that interview.

I really do think the PM made very strong points, I do think he got more than many people will give him credit for in that re-negotiation.

He is right too even before the re-negotiation, he with the coalition govt, put in place that any further treaty and transfer of powers cannot be done without the permission of the UK electorate.
He is right he has secured the UK not ever joining the euro if it doesn't want to and again that would have to be put to the people in a referendum too.

I honestly do think he made a good case for the deal the UK now has with the EU and I further think he is right to say that it is at best unlikely we could get anything better out of the EU.

For me he did well although with limited time, please will the organisers get a better questions than will Boris make a good PM,what for goodness sake had that to do with the EU referendum.

However, I would have happily answered that question for David Cameron, no, no,and no again, Boris would not in my view make a good PM.

[MTVN]

738461448758820864

Fair point

[Kizzy]

The interview was good but the Q&A was a bit disorganised with people just shouting out instead of putting their hand up.

That literature student was ridiculous as well. Thought she was an expert on the middle east because she's got Moroccan family and obviously had her attack on the PM scripted whatever he said in response to her question. Trying to bang on about Saudi Arabia was not exactly relevant either.

Overall the PM did well and had a good answer to everything I felt, a couple of the questions he was very strong on and left the questioners a bit flummoxed

How was she? I'm not an expert on Europe as my family live here, she's an English lit student not a middle eastern politics graduate.

[MTVN]

How was she? I'm not an expert on Europe as my family live here, she's an English lit student not a middle eastern politics graduate.

I was saying that she thought she was an expert on the Middle East, not that she was one

[joeysteele]

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

[Johnnyuk123]

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

[Johnnyuk123]

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

Your own thinking is exactly my point. You won't have it.

[Johnnyuk123]

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

[joeysteele]

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

I am very happy with the deal, trade and otherwise the UK now has with the EU yes.

No more powers can be transferred without the UK electorates permission in a referendum.
We never need to join the euro.
We do not have to be part of any further political integration with the EU after the PMs deal this year.

I have made my own mind up on that definitely and I have further made my own mind up on that I doubt very much that the UK could get anything like the deal it has with the EU now, even just on trade, that is already has.

I also think,not just as to myself but that the UK the Nation I was born in and live in, will also have little more than just an opinion around the world rather than influence, overall, 'if' it leaves the EU.

[Johnnyuk123]

I am very happy with the deal, trade and otherwise the UK now has with the EU yes.

No more powers can be transferred without the UK electorates permission in a referendum.
We never need to join the euro.
We do not have to be part of any further political integration with the EU after the PMs deal this year.

I have made my own mind up on that definitely and I have further made my own mind up on that I doubt very much that the UK could get anything like the deal it has with the EU now, even just on trade, that is already has.

I also think,not just as to myself but that the UK the Nation I was born in and live in, will also have little more than just an opinion around the world rather than influence, overall, 'if' it leaves the EU.

The EU has the lowest growth in the world and you are happy with that?:shrug:

[joeysteele]

The EU has the lowest growth in the world and you are happy with that?:shrug:

Things fluctuate, actually the eurozone is growing again now anyway.
It has been strong before, it has had problems and is growing again now, with countries lining up to get trading deals with it.

Can you tell me exactly what growth the UK will have if it leaves the EU, will it be better, the same or worse.

Ian Duncan Smith stated there would be a 2 year downturn for the UK with lower growth than had we stayed in, for at least 2 years.

Can you state that we would,how we would, and how long afterwards it would take, to make that lost ground up once alone, after that 2 years and just get back to even where we are now.

[Johnnyuk123]

Things fluctuate, actually the eurozone is growing again now anyway.
It has been strong before, it has had problems and is growing again now, with countries lining up to get trading deals with it.

Can you tell me exactly what growth the UK will have if it leaves the EU, will it be better, the same or worse.

Ian Duncan Smith stated there would be a 2 year downturn for the UK with lower growth than had we stayed in, for at least 2 years.

Can you state that we would,how we would, and how long afterwards it would take, to make that lost ground up once alone, after that 2 years and just get back to even where we are now.

I will be happy to answer all of your questions when you actually answer any one of mine which you have failed to do and continue to avoid. Why is anyone's guess. :shrug:

[joeysteele]

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

What??

If the UK votes to leave and by some backwards miracle the Conservative party elects Boris as leader and PM then I equally have to accept that.
Only in a general election can I express my dissatisfaction and vote for another party but yes I would be moaning that he was PM as I do not feel he deserves to be in any way.

Others however,wouldn't agree and would welcome that taking place.

I don't see anyone overseas running the UK,I see 28 Nations making decisions,with the UK being one of them, and it likely getting harder for the unelected element to influence more as to EU matters now.

I simply do not myself see the negatives of the EU as you do,just as you cannot see the positives to it either.
Although at least I can and do accept there are both positives and negatives as to its make up.

[Johnnyuk123]

What??

If the UK votes to leave and by some backwards miracle the Conservative party elects Boris as leader and PM then I equally have to accept that.
Only in a general election can I express my dissatisfaction and vote for another party but yes I would be moaning that he was PM as I do not feel he deserves to be in any way.

Others however,wouldn't agree and would welcome that taking place.

I don't see anyone overseas running the UK,I see 28 Nations making decisions,with the UK being one of them, and it likely getting harder for the unelected element to influence more as to EU matters now.

I simply do not myself see the negatives of the EU as you do,just as you cannot see the positives to it either.
Although at least I can and do accept there are both positives and negatives as to its make up.

As a member of the EU you will not have that choice. I rest my case.

[joeysteele]

I will be happy to answer all of your questions when you actually answer any one of mine which you have failed to do and continue to avoid. Why is anyone's guess. :shrug:

I avoid none of your questions,the problem is you do not get the answer you want as I do not agree with you at all,you so just make play this tit for tat game that goes around in circles and gets neither of us anywhere.

I know what being in the EU is like,I need little more information as to that, I have no idea what the facts really are as to being out and you just as is the case with the out campaign, have given no substantiated picture or facts as to being out.

Had you and the out side,any Nations,in the EU or out of it backing your case as to the UKs future out of the EU,you would easily be able to credibly demonstrate and present factual information.
The fact the out side cannot do so,and in fact has no Nations supporting the claims,for me that speaks volumes about being out and the dangers of same.

[joeysteele]

As a member of the EU you will not have that choice. I rest my case.

You are joking, you are trying to say we will not have general elections in the UK and not be able to vote for other Parties,if we stay in now.
Now I really think you are wasting my time.

[Johnnyuk123]

I avoid none of your questions,the problem is you do not get the answer you want as I do not agree with you at all,you so just make play this tit for tat game that goes around in circles and gets neither of us anywhere.

I know what being in the EU is like,I need little more information as to that, I have no idea what the facts really are as to being out and you just as is the case with the out campaign, have given no substantiated picture or facts as to being out.

Had you and the out side,any Nations,in the EU or out of it backing your case as to the UKs future out of the EU,you would easily be able to credibly demonstrate and present factual information.
The fact the out side cannot do so,and in fact has no Nations supporting the claims,for me that speaks volumes about being out and the dangers of same.

Please give me credible reasons for remaining in the EU.
Just answer the two points below please...

EG: How much will the UK save each year by remaining in the EU?
EG: How many less immigrants will enter the UK after the 23rd of June 2016?

[Johnnyuk123]

You are joking, you are trying to say we will not have general elections in the UK and not be able to vote for other Parties,if we stay in now.
Now I really think you are wasting my time.

No... You will NOT have the choice of who runs the EU.

[Johnnyuk123]

And to be totally honest with you joey you have opinions and very strong belief on matters, you relish the fact that you can make up your own mind on issues by yourself yet you are prepared to give ALL of that up to remain in the EU. Please explain why you are so keen on giving up all of your own personal beliefs to remain within the EU............

[Kizzy]

And to be totally honest with you joey you have opinions and very strong belief on matters, you relish the fact that you can make up your own mind on issues by yourself yet you are prepared to give ALL of that up to remain in the EU. Please explain why you are so keen on giving up all of your own personal beliefs to remain within the EU............

Instead of goading Joey lets have your explanation why that would be the case in this matter.

[bots]

Please give me credible reasons for remaining in the EU.
Just answer the two points below please...

EG: How much will the UK save each year by remaining in the EU?
EG: How many less immigrants will enter the UK after the 23rd of June 2016?

Being in the EU is the status quo, so of course those things are not going to change any time soon in the future. What Joey has been saying, we are in the EU, we therefore know how that is. We don't get any credible verifiable info from the out campaign. If we did, it may have a lot more support than it does now. The out campaign has been nothing short of ludicrous and laughable.

[Kizzy]

Being in the EU is the status quo, so of course those things are not going to change any time soon in the future. What Joey has been saying, we are in the EU, we therefore know how that is. We don't get any credible verifiable info from the out campaign. If we did, it may have a lot more support than it does now. The out campaign has been nothing short of ludicrous and laughable.

And pinned on misinformation with regard to figures.

[joeysteele]

Being in the EU is the status quo, so of course those things are not going to change any time soon in the future. What Joey has been saying, we are in the EU, we therefore know how that is. We don't get any credible verifiable info from the out campaign. If we did, it may have a lot more support than it does now. The out campaign has been nothing short of ludicrous and laughable.

Thank you,you make the point far better and more briefly than I have done.

I actually think it is unfortunate any of the Politicians are the main campaigners.
They likely ,some anyway, have other interests as to raising their profiles further, using the EU referendum to do so.
The information from both sides goes nowhere as to really balancing both scenarios of in and out.

Instead we have a sort of mish mash of an election campaign full of near irrelevant and wrong statistics and figures with further over exaggerated claims and counter claims.

I am glad you were able to understand my meaning so thanks again for your input.

[Cherie]

Someone pointed out that each campaign should have manifestos detailing what will happen if we stay in/go out, For the out campaigners they can't really make any promises as they don't know how other countries will react to the UK leaving, it's a mess in reality

[joeysteele]

Someone pointed out that each campaign should have manifestos detailing what will happen if we stay in/go out, For the out campaigners they can't really make any promises as they don't know how other countries will react to the UK leaving, it's a mess in reality

Exactly, which is why I fail to grasp why the 'remain' side need to make over exaggerated claims.
They just needed to point out the fact we are in, we are successful and that we would be better able to overcome difficulties while remaining in rather than out.
Make the case for staying in after all these decades, not as if we were just looking to join now.

For the 'leave' side, they had a hard task admittedly but they at least needed to get substantiated support from at least some of the other EU Nations,for being able to get a trade deal with the EU but without having to accept the free movement of EU citizens.

It doesn't help that they still are driving around the Nation on their bus with the misleading claim that £350million will be 'saved' every week if we leave and that could go to the NHS.
Until they at least clear away that lie,which is what it is, their credibility,in my view, will and should suffer as a result.

This is a shocking campaign really as to giving balanced and true information to the voters who have to decide how or whether to vote.
Sadly after last nights example of questions being put, I fear these TV debates are not going to help matters in the slightest.

This is a major decision, and by both sides in the campaigning it has been turned into a ridiculous and uninformed farce.

On Wednesday I spoke to 50 people,in a street and campaigning at their doors, I was stunned, as were those with me, that 27 of them said they were sick of hearing about this referendum,were more confused than ever before, and now had no interest in it whatsoever.

What a disgrace and a shameful thing to be the result of this referendum in my view.

[arista]

Live at 8PM tonight
its Gove MP with Out Of Europe
same type of Debate as with the PM yesterday.

[Kizzy]

Live at 8PM tonight
its Gove MP with Out Of Europe
same type of Debate as with the PM yesterday.

Oh goody hope he gets asked about the £350 million bullplop he's been suggesting we'll save being out of the EU

[joeysteele]

Oh goody hope he gets asked about the £350 million bullplop he's been suggesting we'll save being out of the EU

So do I.

[arista]

Live Now

[Johnnyuk123]

The elites versus the people. Well said!!!

[arista]

Fisal he is From the Conservative Party
not UKIP
keep them out of this debate.

And stop going on about Facts

[_Tom_]

Gove doing well, despite being constantly interrupted

[Johnnyuk123]

Gove owning him. :joker:

[karl100589]

Fisal he is From the Conservative Party
not UKIP
keep them out of this debate.

And stop going on about Facts

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02709/f3_2709249a.jpg
Some people like facts.

[Johnnyuk123]

This interviewer seems to think UK jobs will be safe by staying in the EU. :joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:

[_Tom_]

Faisal is struggling tonight, Gove has an answer to almost everything. Audience clapping Gove much more than Cameron last night :clap1:

[Johnnyuk123]

I want liberation!!! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

[Johnnyuk123]

Voting for people that you have no idea who they actually are (besides millionaires) is absolute madness.

[Johnnyuk123]

Well said!!! :clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:

[_Tom_]

Gove did great - positive, factual and honest! A much better performance than Cameron last night. Stayed calm and got great points across despite unprofessional badgering from Faisal who was all over the place in that interview.

Time to be proud of Great Britain again and lead, not follow.

[Johnnyuk123]

Gove did great - positive, factual and honest! A much better performance than Cameron last night. Stayed calm and got great points across despite unprofessional badgering from Faisal who was all over the place in that interview.

Time to be proud of Great Britain again and lead, not follow.

I could not agree more with you Tom. He was brilliant! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

[joeysteele]

To be fair to Michael Gove and he is a Conservative politician I have respect for, he did perform really well although in my view he got a slightly easier ride from Faisal than David Cameron got.

However, he still lost me by standing by that £350million figure and the endless don't knows to the questions and no substantiated vision of being out.
He gave a vision but one that has no substance and authority because no one anywhere backs it internationally or even at home in the UK either.

Mragaret Thatcher won a rebate for the UK from the EU,it has stood near solid since she did so in the 1980s.it is wrong to state now by Gove that that rebate could be altered or discontinued, since that also would likely be an issue for a further referendum, so more pie in the sky to me was that claim.
So really no way would the EU attempt that and it also would not I feel, get the agreement of all the other 27 Nations.

He performed well to be fair but it was for me very telling at the end, when asked if he was positioning himself to be PM after Cameron..
He said no to himself but said there were several who could go for PM after Cameron.

Very telling too he did not clearly and strongly insist that Cameron will be there after the EU referendum, or that he would be supporting Cameron to negotiate the leaving terms from the EU either.
I fear the voters are being hoodwinked into having a pre run of a leadership challenge momentum, followed by a leadership election for the Conservative party after this EU referendum.
I hope all undecided voters think very hard on that one.

It saddens me to see a politician like Michael Gove being in any way intentionally or inadvertently party to that too.

[Johnnyuk123]

To be fair to Michael Gove and he is a Conservative politician I have respect for, he did perform really well although in my view he got a slightly easier ride from Faisal than David Cameron got.

However, he still lost me by standing by that £350million figure and the endless don't knows to the questions and no substantiated vision of being out.
He gave a vision but one that has no substance and authority because no one anywhere backs it internationally or even at home in the UK either.

Mragaret Thatcher won a rebate for the UK from the EU,it has stood near solid since she did so in the 1980s.it is wrong to state now by Gove that that rebate could be altered or discontinued, since that also would likely be an issue for a further referendum, so more pie in the sky to me was that claim.
So really no way would the EU attempt that and it also would not I feel, get the agreement of all the other 27 Nations.

He performed well to be fair but it was for me very telling at the end, when asked if he was positioning himself to be PM after Cameron..
He said no to himself but said there were several who could go for PM after Cameron.

Very telling too he did not clearly and strongly insist that Cameron will be there after the EU referendum, or that he would be supporting Cameron to negotiate the leaving terms from the EU either.
I fear the voters are being hoodwinked into having a pre run of a leadership challenge momentum, followed by a leadership election for the Conservative party after this EU referendum.
I hope all undecided voters think very hard on that one.

It saddens me to see a politician like Michael Gove being in any way intentionally or inadvertently party to that too.

Can you assure me that in the next 4 years if we do not like what the leader of the EU imposes on the UK during that time that we can vote them out?

[Kizzy]

The elites versus the people. Well said!!!

Gove is the elite though :/

[bots]

Can you assure me that in the next 4 years if we do not like what the leader of the EU imposes on the UK during that time that we can vote them out?

the EU can't impose anything on the UK without our agreement, that was the deal that was agreed prior to the referendum announcement. So we don't need to do anything

[Johnnyuk123]

the EU can't impose anything on the UK without our agreement, that was the deal that was agreed prior to the referendum announcement. So we don't need to do anything

Just answer the question. Can we remove the leader of the EU or not? Yes or No will suffice...

[Johnnyuk123]

I've not had one single question answered yet by the pro remain side. Make of that what you will.:shrug:

[bots]

Just answer the question. Can we remove the leader of the EU or not? Yes or No will suffice...

but its irrelevant as we don't need to do what they say ... that was the point you were making. In addition, the terms of leaders within the EU are all limited timescales, and we always have a voice in deciding who the new leadership will be. Sometimes we will get our preferred choice of leader, other times not. Thats the way it goes.

[Johnnyuk123]

but its irrelevant as we don't need to do what they say ... that was the point you were making. In addition, the terms of leaders within the EU are all limited timescales, and we always have a voice in deciding who the new leadership will be. Sometimes we will get our preferred choice of leader, other times not. Thats the way it goes.

You still have not answered my simple question. Can we remove the EU leader in 4 yrs time? Yes or No?

[joeysteele]

the EU can't impose anything on the UK without our agreement, that was the deal that was agreed prior to the referendum announcement. So we don't need to do anything

Exactly,that is all true bitontheslide.

However I will,(likely making a big mistake again here tonight),answer his question even though he never really answers any of the remain sides questions or gives any assurances on the certainty for the UKs future out of the EU.

No, we will not be able to vote that individual out, however we can send MPs to the European parliament and as you have told Johnny,the EU cannot now impose anything on the UK without the UKs agreement.
That is good enough for me.

So I am not bothered as to voting the leader of the EU out in 4 years and again as you have told Johnny,the UK govt gets a say as to who gets elected to the position anyway.
That equally is good enough for me too.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/6/3/469445/default/v1/inew-1-992x558.jpg

[joeysteele]

Its supposed to be an EU debate and all we are getting in the press is the constant sniping between the next leadership contenders of the Conservative party against the present incumbent.

This campaign is a total disgrace as to what it is for,it is like an election campaign of 2 parties only but everyone from the same party supportive of one manifesto or the other.

How can Gove state that £100million would go to the NHS, he does not make policy himself, he has no idea and cannot tell us what the costs, tariffs and conditions of any trade deal with the EU or indeed the rest of the World will entail.

Yes he can say we would have possibly funding spare if we left but he cannot say where that money would go or for what it would be used for.

It is almost as if what we have is now 2 govts,one with the policies it has now led by Cameron.
Then another just waiting to pounce and throw him and his supporters out for them to take over.

It is pathetic,and it does seem more and more to I would say more and more people too, that this is a battle for the Conservative party leadership and has really very little of conviction as to the EU as to 'in' or 'out'.

David Cameron is in my view, being forced to battle for his political survival,while the self styled bumbling buffoon Boris Johnson with his backers,plans his takeover bid against the PM.

Awful, I am ashamed of UK democracy that a campaign on such an issue as important as this one, has delivered no real facts,truths or reliably substantiated information the voters need to make a really informed decision on the EU and the future of the UK.
An absolute disgrace and headlines like Gove castigates the Prime Minister, just about sums up all the 'out' side and its campaign.

The 'leave' camp promises near Utopia if we leave but with no substance whatsoever, lies,no facts and no support for same internationally or Nationally either,except from themselves.
This is not now fully and really about the EU at all in my view, it is about who is going to be the Prime Minister after the EU vote.

[Alf]

You still have not answered my simple question. Can we remove the EU leader in 4 yrs time? Yes or No?
No we cannot Johnny.

Decisions and laws will be made for us by the CEO's of the biggest company's in Europe, because that's who run the show.

They will even hand pick our candidate's to be our Prime Minister.

[bots]

Its supposed to be an EU debate and all we are getting in the press is the constant sniping between the next leadership contenders of the Conservative party against the present incumbent.

This campaign is a total disgrace as to what it is for,it is like an election campaign of 2 parties only but everyone from the same party supportive of one manifesto or the other.

How can Gove state that £100million would go to the NHS, he does not make policy himself, he has no idea and cannot tell us what the costs, tariffs and conditions of any trade deal with the EU or indeed the rest of the World will entail.

Yes he can say we would funding spare if we left but he cannot say where that money would go or for what it would be used for.

It is almost as if what we have is now 2 govts,one with the policies it has now led by Cameron.
Then another just waiting to pounce and throw him and his supporters out for them to take over.

It is pathetic,and it does seem more and more to I would say more and more people too, that this is a battle for the Conservative party leadership and has really very little of conviction as to the EU as to 'in' or 'out'.

David Cameron is in my view, being forced to battle for his political survival,while the self styled bumbling buffoon Boris Johnson with his backers,plans his takeover bid against the PM.

Awful, I am ashamed of UK democracy that a campaign on such an issue as important as this one, has delivered no real facts,truths or reliably substantiated information the voters need to make a really informed decision on the EU and the future of the UK.
An absolute disgrace and headlines like Gove castigates the Prime Minister, just about sums up all the 'out' side and its campaign.

The 'leave' camp promises near Utopia if we leave but with no substance whatsoever, lies,no facts and no support for same internationally or Nationally either,except from themselves.
This is not now fully and really about the EU at all in my view, it is about who is going to be the Prime Minister after the EU vote.

i think this is a pretty accurate reflection. No-one can say where money will be spent. If labour are in power it may go to local councils, NHS or even foreign aid!! ... if its the tories, it may go to reducing taxes or helping small business, but no-one has the authority other than Cameron to say how it will be spent as he is the PM ... and, he is the one not wanting the money to spend .... hope thats all clear then :joker:

[joeysteele]

i think this is a pretty accurate reflection. No-one can say where money will be spent. If labour are in power it may go to local councils, NHS or even foreign aid!! ... if its the tories, it may go to reducing taxes or helping small business, but no-one has the authority other than Cameron to say how it will be spent as he is the PM ... and, he is the one not wanting the money to spend .... hope thats all clear then :joker:

Spot on again.

The media is to blame here too with not challenging and making these points for the voters as well.

[Kizzy]

So was the inaccurate £350 million figure raised? I missed it.

[MTVN]

Faisal was more confrontational with Gove imo but I think the audience were much easier on him than they were with Cameron. Some of the scripted questions were quite poor as well and didn't really challenge him. He held up pretty well overall but I think he had an easier task seeing as anyone can just stand there and rubbish the EU and given that there is no precedent for leaving an organisation like that he can basically promise the world and not be held to account for it.