Forgiveness vs. Foolishness

[Ashley.]

I have always seen forgiveness as a good trait to have. I am incapable of hate, I am incapable of holding heavy grudges, and I always look for the good in people even if it takes incredible amounts of digging, so I have always found it relatively easy to forgive.

Others may see the act of forgiving as naive or foolish, because when you subject yourself to that forgiveness you can never be sure that they won't put you in that position again, and it's thought that the second time always hurts more than the first. You could link it to the whole "leopards never change their spots" saying. Forgiving can sometimes take a lot of trust and sometimes when you get enveloped in the trust you have for someone, you become blind to the possibility that they haven't changed at all.

So my question, do you find forgiving to be a good thing, or a bad thing? And to what extent does forgiving just become plain foolishness?

[Niamh.]

Depends on the situation I guess

[Crimson Dynamo]

Depends on the situation I guess

i forgiven neem for ending the thread with the first reply

:hehe:

[Niamh.]

i forgiven neem for ending the thread with the first reply

:hehe:

:laugh:

Well, if someone murdered my mother I'm not likely to forgive them but if someone called me a name I didn't like in the heat of an argument I'd probably give them a second chance

[Mokka]

Niamh is right about circumstances

Forgiveness is always the right choice to make if you can initially or on a first offense, but it isn't always the right choice going forward. It's really up to each individual where the line is drawn... but for me, I can't forgive someone who hasn't acknowledged the offense and made an effort at amends... but also if going forward they continue the same pattern of behaviour regardless of it's negative impact on me... then a point occurs where it is foolishness for me to allow that person the power in my life to continue to cause hurt.

[Mokka]

:laugh:

Well, if someone murdered my mother I'm not likely to forgive them but if someone called me a name I didn't like in the heat of an argument I'd probably give them a second chance

Not saying I don't like my mother... but there are circumstances where even this is forgivable.

[Niamh.]

Not saying I don't like my mother... but there are circumstances where even this is forgivable.

Not for me there isn't :nono:

[Ashley.]

I can't really say how I'd feel about someone killing my mother because I haven't been in that situation but I agree with Mokka, it may well be possible to forgive someone who has done the worst of things. I have known many instances where people have strongly expressed a desire to meet murderers of their close friends or family members despite all objections, to gain perspective and understanding and perhaps, down the line, forgive them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

im always forgiving people, life is too short

[Niamh.]

I can't really say how I'd feel about someone killing my mother because I haven't been in that situation but I agree with Mokka, it may well be possible to forgive someone who has done the worst of things. I have known many instances where people have strongly expressed a desire to meet murderers of their close friends or family members despite all objections, to gain perspective and understanding and perhaps, down the line, forgive them.

Well they're better people than I am because there's no way in hell I'd forgive someone like that

[joeysteele]

It does depend on the situation but I would always go for forgiving when I could,even several times, especially if I was as sure as I could be that the offending person was in my view genuinely sorry.

I think forgiveness becomes more nearer foolishness if you just roll over and forgive even with no apology at the very least from the offender.
Even moreso if you do that repeatedly.

Obviously there are also instances where forgiveness would not be an option for me such as to someone wilfully murdering other human beings and also as to child abuse.

[Mokka]

Well they're better people than I am because there's no way in hell I'd forgive someone like that

Proving forgiveness is personal, subjective and dependent on circumstance for all of us

[Niamh.]

Proving forgiveness is personal, subjective and dependent on circumstance for all of us

What do you mean by "proving forgiveness"?

[Mokka]

What do you mean by "proving forgiveness"?

proving that forgiveness is...:shrug:

My meaning is that everyone has strong personal feelings and standards about what is forgivable and not... and how forgiveness is used in their lives

I know I have people I have never forgiven
I have people I have forgiven and still don't allow back into my life in the same manner as before
And I have people I will probably always forgive no matter what they do

[Kizzy]

I think cynicism is something that comes with age, the more people fick you off or fick you over the harder it is to forgive but the best thing to do is have a sliding scale and don't sweat the small stuff haha!

[Niamh.]

proving that forgiveness is...:shrug:

My meaning is that everyone has strong personal feelings and standards about what is forgivable and not... and how forgiveness is used in their lives

I know I have people I have never forgiven
I have people I have forgiven and still don't allow back into my life in the same manner as before
And I have people I will probably always forgive no matter what they do

I still don't get what you mean about proving forgiveness :laugh:

[Mokka]

I still don't get what you mean about proving forgiveness :laugh:

And I don't get what you are asking :hehe:

:laugh:

[AnnieK]

Think Mikka was saying that the points raised in this thread prove that forgiveness is subjective Niamh. .....not that you have to prove it :laugh:

[Niamh.]

And I don't get what you are asking :hehe:

:laugh:


I'm so confused :laugh:

[joeysteele]

For me the proof of regret as to an offending against another is that the person who offended really is sincere in making amends and really sorry for offending in any way.

Proof of forgiveness as by my own standards of forgiveness,would be that if you say you have forgiven you go on as you were before with the person you were offended by.

If they act differently after an apology and being forgiven, then they were likely not sorry in the first place possibly.
If I say I forgive someone but then I do not restore how we were with each other before the offending issue, then I have not likely really forgiven either.

[Mokka]

I'm so confused :laugh:

Me too :hehe:

Just disregard...I maybe didn’t phrase what I meant to say right

[Niamh.]

For me the proof of regret as to an offending against another is that the person who offended really is sincere in making amends and really sorry for offending in any way.

Proof of forgiveness as by my own standards of forgiveness,would be that if you say you have forgiven you go on as you were before with the person you were offended by.

If they act differently after an apology and being forgiven, then they were likely not sorry in the first place possibly.
If I say I forgive someone but then I do not restore how we were with each other before the offending issue, then I have not likely really forgiven either.

Actions speak louder than words and all that Joey? I'm a big believer in that phrase

[Stu]

I can't really say how I'd feel about someone killing my mother because I haven't been in that situation.
You could probably have a reasonable stab in the dark at it though, no? You might find maybe you in fact are capable of hate. I believe outside some serious transcendental guruism or existentialist martydom we practically all are. The potential for it seems hardwired into our psyches far too deeply. Maybe most of us can be lucky enough not to seriously tap into it too much but I feel to deny the idea that I am capable of hate is to circumnavigate my own humanity.

Angels are quite dull and certainly imaginary. As for forgiveness I guess I discern on my own terms like with everything. I'll suffer friends for a long time but won't turn the cheek for a fool.

[Mokka]

For me the proof of regret as to an offending against another is that the person who offended really is sincere in making amends and really sorry for offending in any way.

Proof of forgiveness as by my own standards of forgiveness,would be that if you say you have forgiven you go on as you were before with the person you were offended by.

If they act differently after an apology and being forgiven, then they were likely not sorry in the first place possibly.
If I say I forgive someone but then I do not restore how we were with each other before the offending issue, then I have not likely really forgiven either.

I disagree with the last statement.
I can forgive someone, not hold a grudge or hate or malice towards them... And truly want the best for them...but not want to go forward in any type of personal relationship with them.
A case may be where a couple separate or divorce in an amicable fashion

[Crimson Dynamo]

I believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth


Its essentially why my carboot business failed

[Niamh.]

im always forgiving people, life is too short

I believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth


Its essentially why my carboot business failed

:suspect:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:suspect:

its all about proving your forgiveness you see


:hee:

[Redway]

Depends on the situation I guess

Summed up nicely in four words.

[Niamh.]

its all about proving your forgiveness you see


:hee:

I'll forgive you once I've poked your eye out and proved you're sorry :fist:

[Mokka]

I'll forgive you once I've poked your eye out and proved you're sorry :fist:

:joker:

[Ammi]

You could probably have a reasonable stab in the dark at it though, no? You might find maybe you in fact are capable of hate. I believe outside some serious transcendental guruism or existentialist martydom we practically all are. The potential for it seems hardwired into our psyches far too deeply. Maybe most of us can be lucky enough not to seriously tap into it too much but I feel to deny the idea that I am capable of hate is to circumnavigate my own humanity.

Angels are quite dull and certainly imaginary. As for forgiveness I guess I discern on my own terms like with everything. I'll suffer friends for a long time but won't turn the cheek for a fool.

..I agree with you...I think that if we're capable of love, then we're also capable of hate..(and as a parent, I know the love that I'm capable of feeling..)... and if we find that we can forgive (in certain situations..)..then we would also find situations that we couldn't find forgiveness in../not ever..I don't believe you can have one without the other, it's just that we may never have (yet) experienced those situations in our lives....


..hey by the way, it's lovely to see you../I hope you're well and good..:love:..

[Cherie]

I think cynicism is something that comes with age, the more people fick you off or fick you over the harder it is to forgive but the best thing to do is have a sliding scale and don't sweat the small stuff haha!

I'd go with that, I can hold a grudge forever if it's warranted :hee:

[Daniel-X]

I'm extremely forgiving and often the first to apologise as I dislike holding grudges. My mum tells me I'm foolish sometimes for forgiving some people or being the first to apologise when I'm not in the wrong, but I don't know I just find it very hard to hold a grudge against someone. Being forgiving is meant to be one of the key Gemini traits and I'd say i'm pretty much the stereotypical Gemini down to a tea.

[DemolitionRed]

Like Niamph, it depends on what's in front of me. I don't have time to be overly sensitive or offended by people and like my old man says, "if you allow someone to upset you its because you set your own expectations of that person too high".

Saying that, I think it takes the bigger person to stand up and apologize and I've never yet found myself in a situation where I haven't accepted an apology gracefully from someone, but depending on what its about, regardless of an apology, I may be more wary around them. That doesn't mean I haven't forgiven them, it just means I'm more savvy re-going forward with that person.

[joeysteele]

I disagree with the last statement.
I can forgive someone, not hold a grudge or hate or malice towards them... And truly want the best for them...but not want to go forward in any type of personal relationship with them.
A case may be where a couple separate or divorce in an amicable fashion

Absolutely,I respect that and your last statement is a strong point and very valid.

I said it was just my own way of assessing forgiveness and indeed true contrition from any offending me too.

I just feel if I was close to someone who really offended me,and they really apologised and I believed they meant the apology too, to the point where I said I had forgiven them.
Just again, and only speaking from my own feeling on forgiveness,If I then treat them differently from how we were before,I myself would feel I had not really forgiven them.

[Beso]

If someone hurt me or any of my friends then they would have to forgive me for punching them before i forgave them.

[Dollface]

I think forgiveness overall is a good thing, i.e not holding a grudge. But I have a friend that has forgiven her boyfriend for LOADS of things, and to me that is foolishness. I believe in giving people second chances but not six or seven chances.

[bots]

Everyone has the capacity to forgive anything. Its choosing to forget it that's foolish

[Mokka]

Everyone has the capacity to forgive anything. Its choosing to forget it that's foolish

This I agree with wholeheartedly

[jennyjuniper]

Forgive your enemies, but never forget the bastards name!! (an old Scottish saying)
I wish I could be more forgiving. I think it only becomes foolishness when you constantly have to forgive a person for the same thing.