Capitalism or Socialism: which is the better economic system?

[Liberty4eva]

I think most people would agree that neither system is perfect but which is better (or less worse)? And I don't mean which theory is better on paper or in ideal circumstances but rather which is better in cold hard reality. And I also realize that every country is in some way a mixture of the two so let me phrase it this way: Would you rather your country veer more towards the capitalistic side or the socialistic side?

[joeysteele]

I prefer a mix but forced now to choose what I would like to see,I would choose socialism.

[the truth]

obviously a mixed is better , capitalism is overused and misinterpreted, its meant to be healthy competition, what we have is a cartel of price fixing monopolies who are paying off politicians to be deregulated. also nations vary massively in their minimum wages and human rights to some get paid peanuts to produce cheap crap. socialism in its truest form has some merits, especially where certain key industries are nationalised. however the EU has in effect banned any nationalization, which makes corbyns pro EU stance completely contradictory to his beliefs. socialism ultimately fails, but certain parts of it are eternally important, workers rights especially are crucial in demanding fair wages and working conditions etc socialism sells well to kids with black and white ideals. ultimately many socialist leaders are stinking hypocrites as they try to look good demanding free gifts for everyone , but end up bankrupting the nation with anti common sense anti economic policies which bankrupt nations.

[arista]

I prefer a mix but forced now to choose what I would like to see,I would choose socialism.


No nation has it
it does not work.
Marx is a theory - but does not work in practice

[the truth]

do you want to live in the old east Germany or west Germany, simple choice, millions cried and screamed and tore down walls to get from east to west. says it all really.

[Crimson Dynamo]

one accepts that humans are greedy and selfish and the other pretends that they are not

[joeysteele]

No nation has it
it does not work.
Marx is a theory - but does not work in practice

Well with so many Nations in difficulties maybe it is time to try it.
Anyway,I still really prefer a mix rather than wholly one or the other.

[DemolitionRed]

No nation has it
it does not work.
Marx is a theory - but does not work in practice

Of course countries have it and they have it because its interchangeable. Britain, France and Italy are great examples of socialism running arm in arm with capitalism. Even the U.S. have numerous socialist policies.

[DemolitionRed]

do you want to live in the old east Germany or west Germany, simple choice, millions cried and screamed and tore down walls to get from east to west. says it all really.

I thought we were talking about socialism versus capitalism so why are we talking about ex communist E Berlin?

Socialism and Communism are about as different as Capitalism and Fascism; one can become the other but they all have very different ideologies.

[the truth]

I thought we were talking about socialism versus capitalism so why are we talking about ex communist E Berlin?

Socialism and Communism are about as different as Capitalism and Fascism; one can become the other but they all have very different ideologies.

not really the end results are often similar. they waste tax payers money and those in power take care of themselves and the countries go bankrupt.
a mixed economy is the best way, but the governments need to regulate big companies way tighter. instead of being bought off.

[Kazanne]

one accepts that humans are greedy and selfish and the other pretends that they are not

Which one is the first one? that's me:hee:

[user104658]

Full socialism would grind to a halt. Unbridled capitalism would be a disaster.

The question is meaningless because neither, on their own, actually work on a large scale.

[DemolitionRed]

not really the end results are often similar. they waste tax payers money and those in power take care of themselves and the countries go bankrupt.

But that's neither socialist or capatalist, its just corruption.


a mixed economy is the best way, but the governments need to regulate big companies way tighter. instead of being bought off.

Reformist socialism, is fruitful and adaptable within twenty first century Britain. Reformist socialism accepts a mixture of private and public ownership and very much encourages a free market sector. When it comes to nationalization its not only socialist idea, its also conservatist and liberal idea or at least it was before the neo-liberal conservatives got a grip and started turning every available asset into gold.

I'm all for a good dose of capitalism but lets at least follow the ideology of what capitalism is about.

[Firewire]

You need a mix for it to work properly, but socialism is better,

[the truth]

But that's neither socialist or capatalist, its just corruption.



Reformist socialism, is fruitful and adaptable within twenty first century Britain. Reformist socialism accepts a mixture of private and public ownership and very much encourages a free market sector. When it comes to nationalization its not only socialist idea, its also conservatist and liberal idea or at least it was before the neo-liberal conservatives got a grip and started turning every available asset into gold.

I'm all for a good dose of capitalism but lets at least follow the ideology of what capitalism is about.
sounds like utopia tbh but how do we get there.....who regulates the regulators?

[the truth]

You need a mix for it to work properly, but socialism is better,

how?

[DemolitionRed]

sounds like utopia tbh but how do we get there.....who regulates the regulators?

By getting rid of this new 'neo-liberal style conservatism'. I'm sure there are plenty of conservative MP's who would support that move.

[Alf]

Greed is a good thing in the individual, it's the best way to prosper.

The only time greed isn't good, is government greed.

[DemolitionRed]

Greed is a good thing in the individual, it's the best way to prosper.

The only time greed isn't good, is government greed.

Absolutely this ^. We are fundamentally selfish and we are naturally competative and that's why the human race has survived and prospered like it has. Capatalism in the wrong hands though, exasperates that selfish competativeness at the expense of others.

[empire]

I feel that socialism does not work in the 21st century, and capitalism is a get rich quick, for ten years, no longer gives a stable rich economy, like the EU, its nothing but a socialist grab all, and make the world better, its the same with globalism, another failed thing, that people think that, there should be no nations or borders, and the world should have one government, that rules all of us.

[jennyjuniper]

Capitalists with a socialist consciousness

[iRyan]

Democratic socialism

[DemolitionRed]

Democratic socialism

Democratic socialism is really interesting.

[smudgie]

Capitalists with a socialist consciousness

Sounds good to me.

[joeysteele]

Capitalists with a socialist consciousness

What the Conservatives used to be, I could go for that easily too.

[the truth]

By getting rid of this new 'neo-liberal style conservatism'. I'm sure there are plenty of conservative MP's who would support that move.

What does new neo liberal mean

[Livia]

What does new neo liberal mean

Whatever they are, I'm sure getting rid of them isn't going to lead us to Utopia.

[the truth]

Are they the types of people who banned bendy bananas

[Livia]

I like my bananas bendy...

[the truth]

I like my bananas bendy...

Tmi
Lol

[Livia]

Tmi
Lol

LOL....

[DemolitionRed]

What does new neo liberal mean

http://www.globalexchange.org/resources/econ101/neoliberalismhist

[Kizzy]

What does new neo liberal mean

It's an ideology that runs a country into the ground, outsource industry to reduce employment while at the same time privatising anything in the public sector with greatly reduced regulation and or accountability.
Demolish infrastructure by giving other governments control of essential services.
Trade with anyone regardless of human rights record and preach aherance to tax laws unless you are rich enough to not have to.

[DemolitionRed]

It's an ideology that runs a country into the ground, outsource industry to reduce employment while at the same time privatising anything in the public sector with greatly reduced regulation and or accountability.
Demolish infrastructure by giving other governments control of essential services.
Trade with anyone regardless of human rights record and preach aherance to tax laws unless you are rich enough to not have to.

Yes, its corporate rule. The only people who would vote for neoliberalism is the top 20% but because its a clever game where most people don't have a clue about neoliberal ideologies, the loser will be conned into voting for them.

[Livia]

Yes, its corporate rule. The only people who would vote for neoliberalism is the top 20% but because its a clever game where most people don't have a clue about neoliberal ideologies, the loser will be conned into voting for them.

We're lucky then to be in the company of someone who's got a tight grip on the handle of this, as well as so many other things.

[Kizzy]

We're lucky then to be in the company of someone who's got a tight grip on the handle of this, as well as so many other things.

It's a discussion forum Livia, most have a grasp of how those work.

[DemolitionRed]

It's a discussion forum Livia, most have a grasp of how those work.

Oh don't worry, I'm used to her cute sarcasms and put downs. Perhaps I should be honoured that she pays me so much attention :hee:

[Kizzy]

Oh don't worry, I'm used to her cute sarcasms and put downs. Perhaps I should be honoured that she pays me so much attention :hee:

You should haha, but seriously I agree with your interpretation it's bang on for me.

Edit: I just realised your post is my sig :joker:

[lostalex]

based on results... obviously Capitalism.

People need to have hope. if you have no hope that you can lift yourself higher then there is no reason to wake up in the morning. if everyone is just limited and equal then it's like being an animal in a zoo.

everyone gets just the right amount of food, and everyone gets just the same amount of play time, and everyone gets just the same amount of attention. it's like being an animal in a cage. people need to believe that they can earn more, and create whatever they want to create.

We are not animals in a zoo that all get taken care of by BIG BROTHER. People like and prefer to take care of themselves! it gives them self confidence and hope and satisfaction.

we don't want to be plants that are watered by the government. we can take care of ourselves!

[Kizzy]

based on results... obviously Capitalism.

People need to have hope. if you have no hope that you can lift yourself higher then there is no reason to wake up in the morning. if everyone is just limited and equal then it's like being an animal in a zoo.

everyone gets just the right amount of food, and everyone gets just the same amount of play time, and everyone gets just the same amount of attention. it's like being an animal in a cage. people need to believe that they can earn more, and create whatever they want to create.

We are not animals in a zoo that all get taken care of by BIG BROTHER. People like and prefer to take care of themselves! it gives them self confidence and hope and satisfaction.

we don't want to be plants that are watered by the government. we can take care of ourselves!

And yet thanks to capitalism that's what many of us have become, wage slaves chasing the next paycheck trapped in gray conurbations surrounded by the like.

[lostalex]

And yet thanks to capitalism that's what many of us have become, wage slaves chasing the next paycheck trapped in gray conurbations surrounded by the like.

but capitalism is no where near as bad as communism/socialism.. north korea, china, cuba, venuzuela...

if you want to know the truth, look at migration. people vote with their feet.

How many Chinese try to move to America every year VS. how many Americans try to move to China every year?

[Kizzy]

well human rights may have a part to play too there Alex come on be fair :laugh:

[lostalex]

well human rights may have a part to play too there Alex come on be fair :laugh:

Umm, well yea kizzy, duh.. obviously there is a pattern that countries that are economically restricting also have major issues with human rights... the point is that when the government takes control it's gonna discriminate against a lot of people, the government is there to RESTRICT people. The more powerful the government the more restrictions.

[Kizzy]

Umm, well yea kizzy, duh.. obviously there is a pattern that countries that are economically restricting also have major issues with human rights... the point is that when the government takes control it's gonna discriminate against a lot of people, the government is there to RESTRICT people. The more powerful the government the more restrictions.

You say that like it's a good thing, what about the US and gun laws, where's the restriction from people waving guns about?
Any govt with discrimination at it's core sounds corrupt to me.

[lostalex]

You say that like it's a good thing, what about the US and gun laws, where's the restriction from people waving guns about?
Any govt with discrimination at it's core sounds corrupt to me.

Um, there are very strict laws in the US against people "waving guns about" so i'm not sure what you mean? :shrug:

I've lived here for 34 years, and i've never seen anyone waving a gun. and i would most certainly call 911 if i did see it.

[Kizzy]

That was just the example that popped in my head sorry, I don't feel that economic restriction and lack of human rights should be interlinked, removal of human rights is happening here now, in a capitalist society.
Personally I would like to see a more socialist perspective in the UK (with human rights too) I'd like to see all sectors unionised and regulated too for balance.

[DemolitionRed]

The rich of this country rely very much on the social system. Capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich. Look what happened when the banks crashed; the government stepped in and bailed them out but did they bail out Joe Blogs when Sainsbury’s stopped buying things from his small business? Of course they didn’t because Joe Blogs lives within a Capitalist society which is sink or swim for small time businesses like his.

Supermarket profits are on the up since the government built in schemes to send in workers free of charge in return for work experience stacking shelves. Tax credits have ensured corporate companies can get away with paying a minimum wage because the government will subsidize what they don’t want to pay. All these big business benefit from tax payers money. State aid/subsidy for the big boys is at an all time high. Contrast that with the benefit sanctions for the poor in the name of ‘austerity.’

We are looking at a style of capitalism that has gone very wrong. A style of capitalism that creates unaffordable borrowing, ridiculous house pricing and massive amounts of poverty.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing but this isn’t capitalism, that’s just a name they’ve given it to con us all into believing we need to try harder because there may just be a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

[Kizzy]

The rich of this country rely very much on the social system. Capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich. Look what happened when the banks crashed; the government stepped in and bailed them out but did they bail out Joe Blogs when Sainsbury’s stopped buying things from his small business? Of course they didn’t because Joe Blogs lives within a Capitalist society which is sink or swim for small time businesses like his.

Supermarket profits are on the up since the government built in schemes to send in workers free of charge in return for work experience stacking shelves. Tax credits have ensured corporate companies can get away with paying a minimum wage because the government will subsidize what they don’t want to pay. All these big business benefit from tax payers money. State aid/subsidy for the big boys is at an all time high. Contrast that with the benefit sanctions for the poor in the name of ‘austerity.’

We are looking at a style of capitalism that has gone very wrong. A style of capitalism that creates unaffordable borrowing, ridiculous house pricing and massive amounts of poverty.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing but this isn’t capitalism, that’s just a name they’ve given it to con us all into believing we need to try harder because there may just be a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

Of course we're just rats on a wheel, some may have better straw and a bigger wheel but you're no less rat.