The problem with the Koran?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So the extremists say well this is what it says about X and this is what the prophet says we should do to Y

The moderates say well this is this is what it says about X and this is what the prophet says we should do to Y

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/files/2010/09/koran-21-350x245-custom.jpg


the reality is that, being all lies (or at best made up at the time based on a lack of knowledge and a need to use knowledge as power), you can naturally interpret it both ways


So should we intervene and outlaw this cyclical parent to child superstition ( and all religions) otherwise it just goes on and on and on?

or should we just shrug our shoulders and put up with it?

[DemolitionRed]

Are you suggesting we ban religion ?

[Northern Monkey]

The problem with Islam is imo that it is so far behind the rest of the world.The cultures who follow it are behind and it will imo be the last religion to die out.I think this is due to it being a relatively new religion.Other religions have and are adapting more to modern values.Islam is not there yet.It will change over time with the globalised society we live in and the more muslims who are moving to the west,It will have to.The problem now is that it has not yet and Islam is incompatible with our western society and there is a massive culture clash with us all being forced together like we are.Integration is moving at a snails pace as we see with all the muslim ghettos we have.Progress is being made and we are in a transition period.The tough times we are having now with Islam will get easier over time but it will take a very long time.Imo of course.

[Marsh.]

the reality is that, being all lies

So should we intervene and outlaw this cyclical parent to child superstition ( and all religions) otherwise it just goes on and on and on?

No, because the world doesn't revolve around you and only things that you believe in and/or are comfortable with. :hee:

[T*]

I see nothing wrong with Korean food :(

[Mokka]

I don't see how the Koran is any different than the Bible... Christianity is split and divided into different denominations or non-denominational congregations based on interpretation of the same book of scripture. Historically Christianity is riddled with violent crimes and wars in the name of God... and hate crimes still happen today by those purporting to be acting in the cause of Christianity.

So as Demolition Red said... are you proposing we ban all religions... and then the answer to that is surely what Marsh posted... No.. because one belief system, even if that belief system is not to believe in any god or higher power, does not get to make the rules for everyone.

[the truth]

Are you suggesting we ban religion ?
no just parts of radical islam

[Ammi]

..it would be impossible to ban any faith../any belief, whether it be religious or not...because it's something that's in people's minds and in their hearts...could we ban the faith we have in our children/our families../friends etc...I think that if you believe that having a religious faith of any kind is not what makes someone a 'good person' in life...(..which I do..)...it's the person they are that makes them that...then having that religious belief, isn't what makes a 'bad person' either ...so 'banning' would not change anything...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not ban it but outlaw it from schools and politics - give i no preferential treatment make sure that our politicians do not bs about it to garner votes.

We need to be teaching children about science and the latest peer reviewed research on evolution and cosmology and making sure that they know why religion existed but why it is flawed, based on lies and superstition and why that leads to the terror problems we have today.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, because the world doesn't revolve around you and only things that you believe in and/or are comfortable with. :hee:

forget about me marsh and think about the question

:hee:

[Ammi]

Not ban it but outlaw it from schools and politics - give i no preferential treatment make sure that our politicians do not bs about it to garner votes.

We need to be teaching children about science and the latest peer reviewed research on evolution and cosmology and making sure that they know why religion existed but why it is flawed, based on lies and superstition and why that leads to the terror problems we have today.

..it doesn't lead to any terrorist issues there may be though..only hate and intolerance is responsible for that and outlawing is also an intolerance, so it's just adding more on more on more../.. negativity...

[Crimson Dynamo]

..it doesn't lead to any terrorist issues there may be though..only hate and intolerance is responsible for that and outlawing is also an intolerance, so it's just adding more on more on more../.. negativity...

can you think of any reason it should be in schools save a history lesson or too, or in politics?

[Ammi]

can you think of any reason it should be in schools save a history lesson or too, or in politics?

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT..:fist:....(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...

[joeysteele]

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT..:fist:....(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...




I agree 100%. Really strong points all through.

[Crimson Dynamo]

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT..:fist:....(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...

Yes I agree ammi we can teach them about it and teach them why they happen and why people believe in false gods that is fine but as part of the same way we teach them about the Vikings etc. No faith schools, no praying, no ministers near schools and making sure that children know that star signs, werewolves, gods, ghosts etc do not exist there is no evidence what so ever.

Tolerance comes from knowing why people can believe in ghosts but making sure that the child knows categorically that there is zero evidence to support them and therefore do not exist.

Not by saying well, if some people believe in them then they "could be true" - all that does is encourage superstitions

[Livia]

An anti-religion thread from LT. How refreshing...

[Ammi]

Yes I agree ammi we can teach them about it and teach them why they happen and why people believe in false gods that is fine but as part of the same way we teach them about the Vikings etc. No faith schools, no praying, no ministers near schools and making sure that children know that star signs, werewolves, gods, ghosts etc do not exist there is no evidence what so ever.

Tolerance comes from knowing why people can believe in ghosts but making sure that the child knows categorically that there is zero evidence to support them and therefore do not exist.

Not by saying well, if some people believe in them then they "could be true" - all that does is encourage superstitions

...hmmm, so the history lesson..(as opposed to the lesson on religion..)...would go something like...so, why did that (religious war etc..)..happen, do you think, children..?..and the response to that would be...because of lack of tolerance of other religions/cultures etc...ok, well we've banned all of that now../we've banned or out-lawed people from having any faiths or any beliefs because that'll show them what tolerance is..(..it's not something that would ever be possible to outlaw anyway but the attempt to do so would only aggravate more hate from those who choose to try to justify hate through religion..)....

[Crimson Dynamo]

An anti-religion thread from LT. How refreshing...

well its only anti religion if you take my point of view but as a discussion forum thankfully everyone has their own opinion

:hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

...hmmm, so the history lesson..(as opposed to the lesson on religion..)...would go something like...so, why did that (religious war etc..)..happen, do you think, children..?..and the response to that would be...because of lack of tolerance of other religions/cultures etc...ok, well we've banned all of that now../we've banned or out-lawed people from having any faiths or any beliefs because that'll show them what tolerance is..(..it's not something that would ever be possible to outlaw anyway but the attempt to do so would only aggravate more hate from those who choose to try to justify hate through religion..)....

I dont have an issue of education about religion but i do if children are labelled as part of a religion simply by accident of birth and parents

[Livia]

well its only anti religion if you take my point of view but as a discussion forum thankfully everyone has their own opinion

:hee:

We know what your opinion is, you think it's hogwash. You don't have faith and you don't understand those who do. It's not exactly a new thread topic for you LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We know what your opinion is, you think it's hogwash. You don't have faith and you don't understand those who do. It's not exactly a new thread topic for you LT.

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

[Livia]

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

Not to put too fine a point on it... bullsh1t.

[the truth]

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

What the heck?

[Marsh.]

forget about me marsh and think about the question

:hee:

The question was should we ban it because you don't like it.

My answer was relevant. :hee:

[Livia]

Marsh telling it like it is...

[Denver]

Its a great read in bed

[Livia]

Adam... buy a Kindle... get a library card...

[Crimson Dynamo]

One of the main problems with the bible and the koran is the fact so few people read them but are happy to quote from them and then use these quotes to justify acts of greed or violence

[user104658]

One of the main problems with the bible and the koran is the fact so few people read them but are happy to quote from them and then use these quotes to justify acts of greed or violence

Let's face it, if it's anything like the Christian Bible it's going to be hard ****ing work to get through. Don't get me wrong, the bible has its moments, some really great passages, some really exciting and dramatic stuff but it's like 20%... the other 80% of it is boring, long-winded waffling BS.

[Mokka]

One of the main problems with the bible and the koran is the fact so few people read them but are happy to quote from them and then use these quotes to justify acts of greed or violence

No, as you said in your OP, it's down to interpretation. Even the scholars of these books disagree on the meaning and intent behind the words

[Livia]

One of the main problems with the bible and the koran is the fact so few people read them but are happy to quote from them and then use these quotes to justify acts of greed or violence

I've read the Bible many times... and I've also read the Koran, although it was some time ago. I feel like I've earned the right to quote from them. Anyone quoting from them to justify acts of greed or violence has misinterpreted their message, in my opinion. What's more, it isn't only religious people who try to justify acts of greed and violence, so the point is moot.

[Livia]

I feel like I ask this every time is one of these threads appear - so two or three times a month on average... People with faith have a right to their beliefs without being ridiculed for them by people who imagine they know better. To be ridiculed about any other aspect of your life would probably be some kind of "ism", but people of faith are a soft target. Extremists of all faiths are dangerous... the vast majority of people of faith just want to get on with their lives unmolested.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I've read the Bible many times... and I've also read the Koran, although it was some time ago. I feel like I've earned the right to quote from them. Anyone quoting from them to justify acts of greed or violence has misinterpreted their message, in my opinion. What's more, it isn't only religious people who try to justify acts of greed and violence, so the point is moot.

unfortunately around the world the main issues seem to be religion related

Israel, the middle east in general, africa, Afghanistan, pakistan

you name the sh1tstorms and you have wee guys in outfits saying their god is on their side

Its only good old North Korea who seem to be bucking the trend

[Kizzy]

Yes that's true but they are extremists and terrorists mainly trying to invent reasons for their murderous regimes which in reality have more to do with greed and/or power.

Religion is a great cover for monsters and warmongers it's has been used as such for 100s of years.

Of course every book is open to misinterpretation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes that's true but they are extremists and terrorists mainly trying to invent reasons for their murderous regimes which in reality have more to do with greed and/or power.

Religion is a great cover for monsters and warmongers it's has been used as such for 100s of years.

Of course every book is open to misinterpretation.

Of course as its man invented for that very purpose.

[Kizzy]

There are nice bits....

[Crimson Dynamo]

There are nice bits....

well you have to give it the gloss to get recruits and to sell it to the masses

[user104658]

I feel like I ask this every time is one of these threads appear - so two or three times a month on average... People with faith have a right to their beliefs without being ridiculed for them by people who imagine they know better. To be ridiculed about any other aspect of your life would probably be some kind of "ism", but people of faith are a soft target. Extremists of all faiths are dangerous... the vast majority of people of faith just want to get on with their lives unmolested.

That's a matter of opinion there Livia. My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of (what I think you would refer to as "ridicule") anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No. Do they have the right to then dislike the person for doing it? Of course! But that's as far as it goes IMO. Ignore it, fight back, whatever... just don't go around expecting to tell people what they do or don't have the "right" to do with their day whilst not only insisting on upholding the rights of others, but attempting to drape them in some bulletproof shield of political correctness. "You can't say that because...".

Blergh. No. Organised Religion (note: NOT necessarily general spiritualism)... is ****ing stupid. It makes me angry, because it reminds me that people are fearful, gullible and easily lead. In my genuine opinion. And I have as much right to say so as any religious person does to believe what THEY believe, and I don't feel particularly inclined to keep it to myself for fear of ruffling feathers or hurting feelyfeels. It genuinely isn't something that bothers me... because I'm not a particularly "nice" person, I'm afraid. I like to think that I am a good person... but I am not a nice one.

However, as I said, I do fully accept ANY person's right to dislike me for that, and for balance, I am 100% willing to be ridiculed on any aspect of my existence in return.

[Mokka]

That's a matter of opinion there Livia. My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of (what I think you would refer to as "ridicule") anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No. Do they have the right to then dislike the person for doing it? Of course! But that's as far as it goes IMO. Ignore it, fight back, whatever... just don't go around expecting to tell people what they do or don't have the "right" to do with their day whilst not only insisting on upholding the rights of others, but attempting to drape them in some bulletproof shield of political correctness. "You can't say that because...".

Blergh. No. Organised Religion (note: NOT necessarily general spiritualism)... is ****ing stupid. It makes me angry, because it reminds me that people are fearful, gullible and easily lead. In my genuine opinion. And I have as much right to say so as any religious person does to believe what THEY believe, and I don't feel particularly inclined to keep it to myself for fear of ruffling feathers or hurting feelyfeels. It genuinely isn't something that bothers me... because I'm not a particularly "nice" person, I'm afraid. I like to think that I am a good person... but I am not a nice one.

However, as I said, I do fully accept ANY person's right to dislike me for that, and for balance, I am 100% willing to be ridiculed on any aspect of my existence in return.

:clap1:

[user104658]

well you have to give it the gloss to get recruits and to sell it to the masses

Only because people were desensitised; fear worked pretty well early on. They had to add in the nice bits later to entice back those who had figured out that God doesn't actually smite people, make floods, or diseases or plagues of locusts etc. because he isn't real and stuff. "Stick has broken, commence operation Carrot!"

I reckon someone just figured out that humans, over time, become increasingly defiant but remain steadily greedy.

"OBEY or bad things!"
- "Oh no, help! I will obey!"

"Continue to obey, or bad things!"
- "Nah, bored, come at me bro."

"Err... if you obey you get infinite sweets in heaven, really awesome ones."
- "...they free?"

"Yeah infinite! Free sweeties! You have to OBEY for now though."
- "Free... free sweets, you say? OK I'm back in."

[Kizzy]

That's a matter of opinion there Livia. My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of (what I think you would refer to as "ridicule") anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No. Do they have the right to then dislike the person for doing it? Of course! But that's as far as it goes IMO. Ignore it, fight back, whatever... just don't go around expecting to tell people what they do or don't have the "right" to do with their day whilst not only insisting on upholding the rights of others, but attempting to drape them in some bulletproof shield of political correctness. "You can't say that because...".

Blergh. No. Organised Religion (note: NOT necessarily general spiritualism)... is ****ing stupid. It makes me angry, because it reminds me that people are fearful, gullible and easily lead. In my genuine opinion. And I have as much right to say so as any religious person does to believe what THEY believe, and I don't feel particularly inclined to keep it to myself for fear of ruffling feathers or hurting feelyfeels. It genuinely isn't something that bothers me... because I'm not a particularly "nice" person, I'm afraid. I like to think that I am a good person... but I am not a nice one.

However, as I said, I do fully accept ANY person's right to dislike me for that, and for balance, I am 100% willing to be ridiculed on any aspect of my existence in return.

Great post TS, mind you I don't think I could consider 99% of the religious people I've met as good or nice, I'm just unlucky maybe?

[Livia]

unfortunately around the world the main issues seem to be religion related

Israel, the middle east in general, africa, Afghanistan, pakistan

you name the sh1tstorms and you have wee guys in outfits saying their god is on their side

Its only good old North Korea who seem to be bucking the trend

Hitler wasn't on a religious crusade, neither was Stalin. Two of the biggest mass-murderers of the last century. Like I said, it isn't just religious people who can be violent. People in general can be violent.

[Livia]

Only because people were desensitised; fear worked pretty well early on. They had to add in the nice bits later to entice back those who had figured out that God doesn't actually smite people, make floods, or diseases or plagues of locusts etc. because he isn't real and stuff. "Stick has broken, commence operation Carrot!"

I reckon someone just figured out that humans, over time, become increasingly defiant but remain steadily greedy.

"OBEY or bad things!"
- "Oh no, help! I will obey!"

"Continue to obey, or bad things!"
- "Nah, bored, come at me bro."

"Err... if you obey you get infinite sweets in heaven, really awesome ones."
- "...they free?"

"Yeah infinite! Free sweeties! You have to OBEY for now though."
- "Free... free sweets, you say? OK I'm back in."


Yeah, I just can't real another of your comic replies to a serious subject, TS.

[user104658]

Great post TS, mind you I don't think I could consider 99% of the religious people I've met as good or nice, I'm just unlucky maybe?

Personally all I can say is that I don't think it makes much difference... of the religious people I know, and the non-religious, the split between good eggs and bad 'uns is pretty similar :shrug:. So I can only conclude that it's not a factor.

I do find that close-knit church groups have a tendency to start to veer towards being cliquey and judgemental, but again, that happens with the vast majority of small close-knit groups of any kind.

[Livia]

That's a matter of opinion there Livia. My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of (what I think you would refer to as "ridicule") anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No. Do they have the right to then dislike the person for doing it? Of course! But that's as far as it goes IMO. Ignore it, fight back, whatever... just don't go around expecting to tell people what they do or don't have the "right" to do with their day whilst not only insisting on upholding the rights of others, but attempting to drape them in some bulletproof shield of political correctness. "You can't say that because...".

Blergh. No. Organised Religion (note: NOT necessarily general spiritualism)... is ****ing stupid. It makes me angry, because it reminds me that people are fearful, gullible and easily lead. In my genuine opinion. And I have as much right to say so as any religious person does to believe what THEY believe, and I don't feel particularly inclined to keep it to myself for fear of ruffling feathers or hurting feelyfeels. It genuinely isn't something that bothers me... because I'm not a particularly "nice" person, I'm afraid. I like to think that I am a good person... but I am not a nice one.

However, as I said, I do fully accept ANY person's right to dislike me for that, and for balance, I am 100% willing to be ridiculed on any aspect of my existence in return.

How many times are you going to exercise your right to ridicule religious people? How many times? It's a couple of times a month right now... and always the same thing, over and over and ****ing over.

You don't hurt my feelings. I am just aware that you don't have faith and have no understanding of it. I make allowances for you.

[Livia]

Okay, there are four of you now. You can all sit around agreeing with each other.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hitler wasn't on a religious crusade, neither was Stalin. Two of the biggest mass-murderers of the last century. Like I said, it isn't just religious people who can be violent. People in general can be violent.

Its a fair point but i am not saying religion has any monopoly alls i am saying is that it is ripe for violence and suppression as essentially its based on made up stuff.

My god says you are bad, its not my fault. You yourself have said many times that your god gave Israel to Israel 5000 years ago,. The reality is none did, they made that up to excuse some marauding and murder.

[user104658]

Yeah, I just can't real another of your comic replies to a serious subject, TS.

All I can really say there, is what I already said above:

My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No.

The "seriousness" of the subject is, surely, as much a matter of opinion as anything else. You take religion seriously and therefore religion is a serious topic; I try my very hardest not to take it seriously and so it isn't necessarily. It *can* be, but it certainly doesn't have to be.

[Livia]

All I can really say there, is what I already said above:

My personal belief is that everyone has the right to make light of anything and everything they would like to make light of. Do people have to like it? No.

The "seriousness" of the subject is, surely, as much a matter of opinion as anything else. You take religion seriously and therefore religion is a serious topic; I try my very hardest not to take it seriously and so it isn't necessarily. It *can* be, but it certainly doesn't have to be.

All I can really say it, and it's a repeat of my last post... there are four of you now all clapping and nodding at each other. Enjoy!

[user104658]

How many times are you going to exercise your right to ridicule religious people? How many times? It's a couple of times a month right now...

The only honest answer to that is... as often as LT feels like making a thread about it and it coincides with me having nothing better to do. Which, sadly, I admit, is quite often.

and always the same thing, over and over and ****ing over.

That applies to all of us in every single thread here :joker:

[Mokka]

All I can really say it, and it's a repeat of my last post... there are four of you now all clapping and nodding at each other. Enjoy!

Woh woh woh... I never said I agree with LT about anything :smug:

[user104658]

All I can really say it, and it's a repeat of my last post... there are four of you now all clapping and nodding at each other. Enjoy!

Nothing wrong with a good circlejerk Livia.

...hence Church. Where one might go to see someone literally preaching to the flock. Who would clap. And nod. No?

[Livia]

Nothing wrong with a good circlejerk Livia.

...hence Church. Where one might go to see someone literally preaching to the flock. Who would clap. And nod. No?

You tell me... I'm not a Christian, I am not in the Christian flock.

Anyway, like I said, enjoy. I'll look in next time LT starts another anti-religion thread and we can all say the same things over again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

well i dont think i will start a pro religion thread anytime soon

same way you wont start a pro socialism one

:idc:

[Marsh.]

Nothing wrong with a good circlejerk Livia.

...hence Church. Where one might go to see someone literally preaching to the flock. Who would clap. And nod. No?

People don't clap in church. :suspect:

[Marsh.]

Its a fair point but i am not saying religion has any monopoly alls i am saying is that it is ripe for violence and suppression

As is the human race in all aspects about anything and everything.

So how is "banning" all religion at all going to change that? Humans will find other reasons to fight. As they have and still do.

[Mokka]

People don't clap in church. :suspect:

Oh yes they do... depending on the denomination of course...but every Christian denominational type of church I have been to has clapping... to music, to god, for each others achievements in god...

[Marsh.]

Oh yes they do... depending on the denomination of course...but every Christian denominational type of church I have been to has clapping... to music, to god, for each others achievements in god...

Each other's achievements? Everyone has a turn to list their achievements? :amazed:

But, yeah, the roman catholic churches I've been to don't have such back slapping. :hmph:

[Crimson Dynamo]

As is the human race in all aspects about anything and everything.

So how is "banning" all religion at all going to change that? Humans will find other reasons to fight. As they have and still do.

not ban just eradicate from schools and politics apart from teaching about as part of say history or modern studies. No preferential treatment in society.

We need to thoroughly reverse the prevailing notion that religious "faith" is intrinsically deserving of respect.

[Northern Monkey]

Well i'm not religious.I don't believe the concepts involved.
However i find the history of religions absolutely fascinating and how if you research different religions you can see how they evolved and ideas and even characters from one religion end up popping up later on in other religions.Moses for instance may actually have been a real guy and possibly the step brother of Thutmoses iii who was a real pharoah.Now i personally don't believe he parted the Red Sea or recieved the commandments from god but even the fact that he could've been a real person over 3000 years ago is fascinating imo.I believe the Exodus probably was a real thing and i believe Jesus could very well have been a real preacher who was involved in creating an offshoot of Judaism that became very popular(Christianity).
I don't think religion was created originally as a way to control the masses.I think it was inevitable due to early man/woman not understanding the wonders around them.The control factor came about later on.Long after ritual burial and the worshipping of gods.People want to understand what we see around us.Invisible gods was possibly the only explanation that human brains could come up with imo.
I think religion is very much historically relevant.

[Marsh.]

not ban just eradicate from schools and politics apart from teaching about as part of say history or modern studies. No preferential treatment in society.

We need to thoroughly reverse the prevailing notion that religious "faith" is intrinsically deserving of respect.

Preferential treatment? :joker:

Religious people get nothing but mocked in this country.

[Mokka]

Preferential treatment? :joker:

Religious people get nothing but mocked in this country.

I think that's the crux of it... if we were to find a way to ban extremism in religion... which I don't think we can do... or certain parts of a religion..or religion itself, then we will make the people who are extremists or even the modernists into martyrs for their faith, making them more valid unfortunately, and giving them a greater cause to rally behind.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Preferential treatment? :joker:

Religious people get nothing but mocked in this country.

they get prime time slots on the radio 2 breakfast show (audience 9 million) and radio 4 (slightly less but similar)

what other organisation do you know who gets this free advertising?

(this being one example)

[Kizzy]

Nothing wrong with a good circlejerk Livia.

...hence Church. Where one might go to see someone literally preaching to the flock. Who would clap. And nod. No?

*Claps and nods*

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh and have a look at the national secular society's strapline,...


http://www.secularism.org.uk/

[Kizzy]

People don't clap in church. :suspect:

Pentecostals clap.

[user104658]

You tell me... I'm not a Christian, I am not in the Christian flock.

You realise that you've now given me the idea that, in Jewish church, everyone goes along and disagrees with what the Jew preacher has to say, shakes their head and... maybe some jeering and booing?

If that is the case then it sounds wonderful TBH.

[user104658]

Pentecostals clap.

Only on obese people.

[the truth]

As is the human race in all aspects about anything and everything.

So how is "banning" all religion at all going to change that? Humans will find other reasons to fight. As they have and still do.

This is very true