How do you feel about this Gorilla thing? [Archive] - ThisisBigBrother.com

View Full Version : How do you feel about this Gorilla thing?

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 12:05 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/30/15/34C572A300000578-0-image-m-2_1464617445423.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/30/16/34C5D69700000578-3616453-The_boy_s_mother_wrote_a_Facebook_post-a-4_1464623964420.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/31/00/34C8870D00000578-0-image-a-1_1464652047487.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/30/07/34BEE4E000000578-3615783-His_death_has_sparked_an_outrage_with_many_called_ it_a_murder_an-a-11_1464591377542.jpg

Deonne Dickerson and Michelle Gregg have been heavily criticized
Harambe was fatally shot after their four-year-old boy crawled past a railing and fell 15ft into the gorilla exhibit moat
Harambe was shot dead after dragging the boy around
Many have blamed the boy's parents for 17-year-old Harambe's death
They released a statement on Sunday saying their boy is doing 'just fine'
Zoo director said Harambe was 'disoriented' and tranquilizer would have taken too long with the possibility of agitating the animal even more
Director said: 'Looking back we would make the same decision'
He insisted barriers were secure, asking: 'Do you know any four-year-olds? They can climb over anything'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html

LukeB

31-05-2016, 12:11 PM

I think it was cruel and wrong to kill the Gorilla because it's not their fault they have no sense of right or wrong the mother should have kept a closer eye on her child especially around the exhibit.

Gypsy

31-05-2016, 12:11 PM

Obviously his parents should have been keeping an eye on him but the gorilla was dragging the boy through water, could have drowned him unintentionally or whatever so unfortunately shooting him was the only choice

Very odd that anyone was even able to get that close to fall in

Ninastar

31-05-2016, 12:11 PM

I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.

I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but their should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1203379103029809&set=a.136952966339100.18704.100000731932790&type=3&theater

this pretty much confirms what i thought... He wasnt trying to protect the child, its ****ing stupid to say that he was

i do however, blame the mother and think its tragic either way. Either the gorilla would be killed, or the child. There is no 'win win' situation. As awful as it sounds, I know what I'd rather happen.

y.winter

31-05-2016, 12:12 PM

They should have shot his parents.
Jailing and killing the gorilla, the zoo is not better...
Ridiculously sad situation.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 12:14 PM

or maybe not have gorillas in zoos?

Ninastar

31-05-2016, 12:15 PM

I don't believe in Zoo's anyway. Not because of what happened, I just think its cruel (for the most part) to keep animals inside a cage their whole lives.

billy123

31-05-2016, 12:16 PM

The zoo are dickheads for making it possible for a child to get into the enclosure but made a decision to kill the Animal which they shoudnt be criticized for.

These animals shouldnt be on display to the public in the first place and i dont care about the conservation argument they can be conserved in captivity without being paraded to the public like a circus.

LukeB

31-05-2016, 12:18 PM

or maybe not have gorillas in zoos?

Why? the gorilla didn't magically get the child to fall into the exhibit, everyone is safe from them aslong you yourself are not stupid enough to do something silly or not paying close attention to the child.

smudgie

31-05-2016, 12:20 PM

arista

31-05-2016, 12:23 PM

I think they should
have fired to 2 darts into it at first.

But Keeping the Rifle Gun man ready,
He was not attacking the kid , more protecting him.

Samm

31-05-2016, 12:26 PM

I don't blame the parents since it's virtually impossible to watch your child 24/7, it's all the Zoo's fault how did it even become possible for a child to fall into a gorilla pit in the first place, and there was no need to shot it, they should have tranquillised the gorllia

I don't agree with inclosed zoo's in the first place anyways

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 12:27 PM

the stupid mother thanking God for killing a magnificent Gorilla?

it beggars belief

:facepalm:

arista

31-05-2016, 12:27 PM

billy123

31-05-2016, 12:29 PM

Tranquilizers weren't a realistic option fyi they take a few minutes to work and in those few minutes you just angered the Gorilla.

arista

31-05-2016, 12:31 PM

Tranquilizers weren't a realistic option fyi they take a few minutes to work and in those few minutes you just angered the Gorilla.

Yes they take time work
so fire 2 into him at first
he would not get angry - not used to them

billy123

31-05-2016, 12:32 PM

Yes they take time work
so fire 2 into him at first
he would not get angry - not used to them
OK you better email this vital info to the zoo.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 12:34 PM

Tranquilizers weren't a realistic option fyi they take a few minutes to work and in those few minutes you just angered the Gorilla.

Yeah ^

of course the only option was to shoot the Gorilla and save the child, I've heard some absolutely disgusting comments like "they should have shot the boy instead" etc

It's sad, Gorillas are beautiful animals, I think most of the blame lands with the Zoo, why could a child that young be able to get into the enclosure?

It's a shame that Gorillas couldn't be preserved in a wild life sanctuary though instead of a Zoo in the first place

Ammi

31-05-2016, 12:37 PM

..sadly, I don't think that there was any option but to shoot him..anything else would have been too unpredictable and possibly endangered the child even more..it's a shame that such a magnificent beast had to die but the fault I think is keeping such powerful animals in zoos the first place...

billy123

31-05-2016, 12:38 PM

Yeah ^

of course the only option was to shoot the Gorilla and save the child, I've heard some absolutely disgusting comments like "they should have shot the boy instead" etc

It's sad, Gorillas are beautiful animals, I think most of the blame lands with the Zoo, why could a child that young be able to get into the enclosure?

It's a shame that Gorillas couldn't be preserved in a wild life sanctuary though instead of a Zoo in the first placeI couldnt agree more its nothing more than an animal freak show hiding behind the excuse of animal conservation i would never visit one.

Drew.

31-05-2016, 12:41 PM

There are loads of people that could be at fault for this. It's easy to say it's the parents fault but realistically it's almost impossible to have your eyes on a kid 24/7.. kids manage to escape from their parents attention all the time whether it's at a supermarket or wherever, this time it happened to be at a zoo. But then it should never have been possible for a human to enter the enclosure in the first place so whoever designed it should be at fault as well. Gotta feel for animals though, they are so innocent & helpless being put in these situations that cost them their own lives

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 12:48 PM

They should have shot his parents.
Jailing and killing the gorilla, the zoo is not better...
Ridiculously sad situation.

:/

Cal.

31-05-2016, 12:53 PM

It's so ****ed up that he was put in a zoo, kept there for people to watch him and then some boy fell in and he got shot for it. Animals don't belong in zoos!

Cal.

31-05-2016, 12:54 PM

The boys mum really needs to know herself thanking God for the gorilla's death.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 12:56 PM

The boys mum really needs to know herself thanking God for the gorilla's death.

She was thanking god for her son being safe not for the Gorillas death, come on

DemolitionRed

31-05-2016, 01:17 PM

Poor Harambe, such an awful shame that he had to be killed.

Now, if the Zoo took more care to protect its animals and its customers this would not have happened.
You have to ask yourself, if a little 4 year old can gain access to a Gorilla enclosure are their tight enough controls.
As to the parents, you can't keep your eye on a child every second on a day out, you can't stick them in a straight jacket either, they need to be able to walk around and explore safely in a public place like a Zoo or a park.

Those bolded words say it all. Animals in zoos and safari parks need to be protected from things like this happening. You're right, children need to be able to run about and explore in places like this without tragic incident to either child or animal.

The zoo is completely responsible for this sad outcome.

Tom4784

31-05-2016, 01:33 PM

Tragic but there was no other course of action. The Zoo needs to look at it's enclosures and make them more safe for both visitors and the animals.

Shaun

31-05-2016, 01:38 PM

Tragic but there was no other course of action. The Zoo needs to look at it's enclosures and make them more safe for both visitors and the animals.

Basically. I'm sure many an angry vegan will get a kick out of this being 'murder' rather than desperate measures though. Wouldn't be an issue if the animal involved wasn't endangered, really.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 01:46 PM

She was thanking god for her son being safe not for the Gorillas death, come on

Sheer superstitious ignorance, she was actually thanking "her" god and not giving a rats arse to the logic that "her god" allowed a Gorilla to die - mainly because 1. she was too thick to make that bridge and 2. that vile religion teaches them that man is better than animals.

such is the total fckd up nature of religion, like the reporter asking a woman to thank god that she was saved from a tornado (yet 24 people had died that day in that tornado)

you could not make it up

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 01:51 PM

Sheer superstitious ignorance, she was actually thanking "her" god and not giving a rats arse to the logic that "her god" allowed a Gorilla to die - mainly because 1. she was too thick to make that bridge and 2. that vile religion teaches them that man is better than animals.

such is the total fckd up nature of religion, like the reporter asking a woman to thank god that she was saved from a tornado (yet 24 people had died that day in that tornado)

you could not make it up

Well that's a whole other discussion altogether, I was simply saying she wasn't saying "Dear God, thank you for killing a Gorilla" she was saying thanks for saving my child (whether a God saved her child or not is not the point I was making)

y.winter

31-05-2016, 01:56 PM

:/

Not literally...
There's so much ignorant people involved in this story and the innocent gorilla paying the (deadly) price. It's frustrating. The gorilla has done nothing wrong and had no chance of surviving this madness whatsoever.

DigitalSid

31-05-2016, 01:57 PM

The mother's an idiot and the Gorilla should have been tranquilised.

Northern Monkey

31-05-2016, 02:01 PM

Imo there should be no way for anyone to be able to get in with a dangerous animal.Security needs re-evaluating.

Mokka

31-05-2016, 02:04 PM

Sheer superstitious ignorance, she was actually thanking "her" god and not giving a rats arse to the logic that "her god" allowed a Gorilla to die - mainly because 1. she was too thick to make that bridge and 2. that vile religion teaches them that man is better than animals.

such is the total fckd up nature of religion, like the reporter asking a woman to thank god that she was saved from a tornado (yet 24 people had died that day in that tornado)

you could not make it up

I agree with you... The first thing that stood out to me in the OP was her thanking god...and I rolled my eyes.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 02:07 PM

The mother's an idiot and the Gorilla should have been tranquilised.

Tranquilizing the Gorilla would have been too risky, it takes too long and could have caused the Gorilla to become more angry. I wouldn't be too quick to vilify the mother, kids that age can run off in a split second, parents aren't super human, sometimes they break concentration or become distracted (it's not like she went off socializing for the night and left him alone for hours or anything ehem lol)

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 02:11 PM

I agree with you... The first thing that stood out to me in the OP was her thanking god...and I rolled my eyes.

Also surreptitiously saying that ultimately its out of her hands...

:facepalm:

I wonder how all the other parents manage to keep their kids from going in?

Marsh.

31-05-2016, 02:13 PM

Oh look, it's turning into another religion bashing thread. How novel.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 02:13 PM

Also surreptitiously saying that ultimately its out of her hands...

:facepalm:

I wonder how all the other parents manage to keep their kids from going in?

God was busy helping Lewis Hamilton win last weeks Grand Prix :nono:

Mokka

31-05-2016, 02:14 PM

Oh look, it's turning into another religion bashing thread. How novel.

:hee:

Jordan.

31-05-2016, 02:17 PM

Think people who are abusing the parents are being a tad OTT. Yes they should have been more responsible but it was just an unfortunate accident.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 02:20 PM

Oh look, it's turning into another religion bashing thread. How novel.

If you read the thread marshall you will see that it was the mother who brought up religion.

Also if you think anyone can talk about religion without exposing it for what it is then you are bonkers

Marsh.

31-05-2016, 02:24 PM

If you read the thread marshall you will see that it was the mother who brought up religion.

Also if you think anyone can talk about religion without exposing it for what it is then you are bonkers

Nobody's spoken about religion apart from you who brought it up first.

"Thank God" is an expression used by many people, both religious and non-religious.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 02:26 PM

Nobody's spoken about religion apart from you who brought it up first.

"Thank God" is an expression used by many people, both religious and non-religious.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/30/16/34C5D69700000578-3616453-The_boy_s_mother_wrote_a_Facebook_post-a-4_1464623964420.jpg

Marsh.

31-05-2016, 02:27 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/30/16/34C5D69700000578-3616453-The_boy_s_mother_wrote_a_Facebook_post-a-4_1464623964420.jpg

The fact that references to "God" are the most discussion worthy aspects to this whole story speaks volumes. And not about the mother.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 02:31 PM

The fact that references to "God" are the most discussion worthy aspects to this whole story speaks volumes. And not about the mother.

Well you cant bring the Gorilla back to life, you cant unput the boy in the pen and last time i checked we dont have to run by you discussion points:hee:. We are discussing the mother all you are doing is discussing us discussing the mother

who looks like the drongo?

:hehe:

Lostie!

31-05-2016, 02:36 PM

Basically. I'm sure many an angry vegan will get a kick out of this being 'murder' rather than desperate measures though. Wouldn't be an issue if the animal involved wasn't endangered, really.

Don't really think the cliched vegan stereotyping needs to start, it's not just vegans / vegetarians angered by this whole situation. And nobody who genuinely cares for animal life would "get a kick" out of this in any way.

Marsh.

31-05-2016, 03:05 PM

Well you cant bring the Gorilla back to life, you cant unput the boy in the pen

Who said we could? :hee: Someone's put 2 and 2 together and come up with 6? :smug:

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 03:15 PM

Who said we could? :hee: Someone's put 2 and 2 together and come up with 6? :smug:

You and neem are 2 peas in a pod at times

:joker:

Marsh.

31-05-2016, 03:19 PM

You and neem are 2 peas in a pod at times

:joker:

I wish. :shame:

Firewire

31-05-2016, 03:30 PM

Tragic but there was no other course of action. The Zoo needs to look at it's enclosures and make them more safe for both visitors and the animals.

Totally agree with this. I didn't agree with the news at the time but after reading up on it I understand they had no choice.

The boy should never have fell into the pit though, that's down to the zoo to make sure it's safe.

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 03:45 PM

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 03:48 PM

When I used to go to Chester Zoo when I was little I remember my mum holding my hand at the open exhibits, it's not solely down to the zoo to babysit, a little common sense is surely expected?

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 03:49 PM

I think shooting the Gorilla was ultimately the right decision, it was clearly not protecting the child and had the animal been tranquilized it could have lashed out and killed the kid.

I do blame the parent, she should have been aware of where her child was at all times, it's not about keeping an eye on him 24/7 as some have said it's about being a good parent and bring responsible. On facebook a woman who visits the zoo frequently said the child must have crawled through shrubbery and over railings to even get close to the edge of the edge of the enclosure. The stupid bitch clearly took her eyes off her child for more than a few seconds for him to do that.

Not necessarily, she could have taken her eyes off him for a couple of seconds giving him enough time to be out of her sight, that doesn't mean she wasn't looking around for him in the wrong places, giving him enough time to climb in there (I'm not saying this is what happened, just that it doesn't actually mean that she wasn't paying attention for all that time that it took for him to get in there, if you get what I mean)

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 03:50 PM

When I used to go to Chester Zoo when I was little I remember my mum holding my hand at the open exhibits, it's not solely down to the zoo to babysit, a little common sense is surely expected?

I wouldn't call making sure enclosures are secure baby sitting :laugh:

Ashley.

31-05-2016, 03:53 PM

LT is anti-religion? I would never have guessed.

Ammi

31-05-2016, 04:00 PM

..a zoo is though a place which is essentially for families to visit..so built to keep out children from the enclosures and keep them safe ... with fences ..?...they should be made so that it wouldn't ever be possible for any child to climb over and this is a very young/small child as well..so, so much easier for a larger child..?..there shouldn't have been any shrubbery which could have been crawled through etc and no possible way for him to have been able to get into the enclosure...I mean, that seems like basic safety requirements because it would have to be allowed for parents taking their eyes of their child for a few moments...

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 04:05 PM

I wouldn't call making sure enclosures are secure baby sitting :laugh:
And I wouldn't call watching your child closely in a zoo much to ask, undoubtedly the enclosure wasn't as appropriate as it should have been but if the mother had put his interests first and actually taken care of him none of this would have happened.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 04:09 PM

And I wouldn't call watching your child closely in a zoo much to ask, undoubtedly the enclosure wasn't as appropriate as it should have been but if the mother had put his interests first and actually taken care of him none of this would have happened.

I think you're being unreasonable tbh, people get distracted, it happens, wait till you have a kid yourself and come back to me when they're 5 and tell me that not one single time in their whole life did you get distracted :laugh:

LaLaLand

31-05-2016, 04:11 PM

Parents need to be reprimanded for causing all of this mess by not watching their child but also the zoo need to look into how such a small child could be able to get into the enclosure to avoid anything happening like this again for sure (higher barriers for a start!)

That poor gorilla.

arista

31-05-2016, 04:19 PM

The mother's an idiot and the Gorilla should have been tranquilised.

Bang On Right DS

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 04:21 PM

In a zoo, looking at a massive gorilla, in an open pen situation, you dont ever take your eye off a kid, even for 1 second

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 04:22 PM

In a zoo, looking at a massive gorilla, in an open pen situation, you dont ever take your eye off a kid, even for 1 second

omg I'm sorry but this coming from the guy who defended the McCanns decision to leave three babies alone in an unlocked apartment while they went out drinking :o

_Tom_

31-05-2016, 04:23 PM

The right thing was done as far as I am concerned. It's humans before animals, end of story. No sane person could sit there and watch a 4 year old boy get killed by an animal. If they hadn't have stepped in, and the boy had died, everyone would be up in arms that they didn't shoot the gorilla.

For a kid to be able to in the first place get into a gorilla enclosure is a safety issue at the zoo you would think.

I just don't get the uproar about it, the gorilla's dead which of course is sad, but hello - we've got a 4 year old boy who's safe and sound.

And I wouldn't call watching your child closely in a zoo much to ask, undoubtedly the enclosure wasn't as appropriate as it should have been but if the mother had put his interests first and actually taken care of him none of this would have happened.

The parents have more than one kid, it's tough to keep your eye on every kid. If you turn your eye for a second, anything can happen. Parents make mistakes, no parent is perfect.

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 04:24 PM

The right thing was done as far as I am concerned. It's humans before animals, end of story. No sane person could sit there and watch a 4 year old boy get killed by an animal. If they hadn't have stepped in, and the boy had died, everyone would be up in arms that they didn't shoot the gorilla.

For a kid to be able to in the first place get into a gorilla enclosure is a safety issue at the zoo you would think.

I just don't get the uproar about it, the gorilla's dead which of course is sad, but hello - we've got a 4 year old boy who's safe and sound.

The parents have more than one kid, it's tough to keep your eye on every kid. If you turn your eye for a second, anything can happen. Parents make mistakes, no parent is perfect.

:clap2:

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 04:24 PM

The right thing was done as far as I am concerned. It's humans before animals, end of story. No sane person could sit there and watch a 4 year old boy get killed by an animal. If they hadn't have stepped in, and the boy had died, everyone would be up in arms that they didn't shoot the gorilla.

For a kid to be able to in the first place get into a gorilla enclosure is a safety issue at the zoo you would think.

I just don't get the uproar about it, the gorilla's dead which of course is sad, but hello - we've got a 4 year old boy who's safe and sound.

The parents have more than one kid, it's tough to keep your eye on every kid. If you turn your eye for a second, anything can happen. Parents make mistakes, no parent is perfect.

so by that token I hope you are not one of those who criticise the Mccanns?

Niamh.

31-05-2016, 04:26 PM

so by that token I hope you are not one of those who criticise the Mccanns?

I wouldn't call making a conscious decision to leave you children on their own for hours while you went out drinking a momentary distraction, how you justify that but condemn these parents is baffling tbqh

Tom4784

31-05-2016, 04:30 PM

omg I'm sorry but this coming from the guy who defended the McCanns decision to leave three babies alone in an unlocked apartment while they went out drinking :o

https://40.media.tumblr.com/de5660f478fe2f0176bdee543cf4a225/tumblr_nztxjqZVND1u4d93ao2_400.jpg

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 04:33 PM

Astonishing new footage shows gorilla 'PROTECTING' boy and holding his hand before being shot dead

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/astonishing-new-footage-shows-gorilla-8082168

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 04:36 PM

Also think about the other Gorillas in that pen, intelligent creatures, what do they now think about Humans?

user104658

31-05-2016, 04:39 PM

'Do you know any four-year-olds? They can climb over anything'

Trying to avoid the blame with ridiculous statements: I know plenty of 4 year olds and, no, amazingly, they can't simply "climb over anything" :suspect:.

IF they are going to keep dangerous animals in captivity, they need better enclosures. That's about the long and short of it. This idea that it would be "impossible" to have fences that a child couldn't climb over... is just nonsense.

user104658

31-05-2016, 04:43 PM

Astonishing new footage shows gorilla 'PROTECTING' boy and holding his hand before being shot dead

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/astonishing-new-footage-shows-gorilla-8082168

There's a good chance that the gorilla was trying to protect the boy, it certainly sounds like it, however it would take a split second for it to kill him even completely unintentionally... especially in a situation where people are starting to panic and the animal is becoming confused. It's tragic, and maybe they could have gotten him out without incident, but in my opinion, it's simply not worth risking the child's life in that way.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 04:49 PM

There's a good chance that the gorilla was trying to protect the boy, it certainly sounds like it, however it would take a split second for it to kill him even completely unintentionally... especially in a situation where people are starting to panic and the animal is becoming confused. It's tragic, and maybe they could have gotten him out without incident, but in my opinion, it's simply not worth risking the child's life in that way.

I dont buy "she only took her eye off him for a second"

It does not take a second to get into a dangerous animal pen - it takes a second to run off to the ice cream van but go under the rail, through wires and over the moat wall?

If it so easy it would happen all the time surely? I would be very interested to see the video footage of the bit prior to him entering..

user104658

31-05-2016, 04:56 PM

I dont buy "she only took her eye off him for a second"

It does not take a second to get into a dangerous animal pen - it takes a second to run off to the ice cream van but go under the rail, through wires and over the moat wall?

If it so easy it would happen all the time surely? I would be very interested to see the video footage of the bit prior to him entering..

I agree and I wouldn't take my eyes off my kids for a second if there was any risk at all of something like that happening (dangerous animals and fences that aren't basically sky-high)... however I have to say, like others, I do find it a bit confusing that you particularly have such an issue with it LT...

Anyway, HOW he got in there doesn't really affect my thinking on whether or not they should have killed the gorilla. No matter whose fault it was (parents or park... it was definitely someone's) it happened, and from that point there was really only one outcome.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 05:05 PM

I agree and I wouldn't take my eyes off my kids for a second if there was any risk at all of something like that happening (dangerous animals and fences that aren't basically sky-high)... however I have to say, like others, I do find it a bit confusing that you particularly have such an issue with it LT...

Anyway, HOW he got in there doesn't really affect my thinking on whether or not they should have killed the gorilla. No matter whose fault it was (parents or park... it was definitely someone's) it happened, and from that point there was really only one outcome.

Whilst I get why it was shot I am not 100% comfortable with the notion that a human life is somehow more valuable than that of a gorilla but that is another debate

AnnieK

31-05-2016, 05:10 PM

It's a terribly sad situation. The gorilla certainly looks like he is trying to protect the boy and by all accounts the screaming visitors were agitating the situation but ultimately there was only going to be one outcome when a child is at risk. Had the gorilla killed him, I would imagine he would be put to sleep anyway. The zoo should have ensured there was no possible way this could have happened.....or better still zoos shouldn't have caged animals and money invested in conservation in the wild.

Ammi

31-05-2016, 05:10 PM

Whilst I get why it was shot I am not 100% comfortable with the notion that a human life is somehow more valuable than that of a gorilla but that is another debate

..and if it was your child's life and you were watching helplessly...would you really be saying..hold back, let's try a tranquiliser, let's take that risk that the gorilla doesn't become agitated and my son is ok...

GiRTh

31-05-2016, 05:12 PM

I wouldn't call making a conscious decision to leave you children on their own for hours while you went out drinking a momentary distraction, how you justify that but condemn these parents is baffling tbqh:clap1:

|There was little option than killing the Gorilla. Terrible tragedy to deal with but the actions taken seem appropriate.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 05:12 PM

..and if it was your child's life and you were watching helplessly...would you really be saying..hold back, let's try a tranquiliser, let's take that risk that the gorilla doesn't become agitated and my son is ok...

I have not said anything about tranquillisers, holding back or taking a risk I am afraid

And I would have been holding onto my children at all times in that situation so it would not have arisen

AnnieK

31-05-2016, 05:12 PM

Whilst I get why it was shot I am not 100% comfortable with the notion that a human life is somehow more valuable than that of a gorilla but that is another debate

I agree but the simple matter is gorillas can't sue! There is no way the zoo could possibly risk a lawsuit of that nature so the gorilla became collateral damage sadly. Were it your child though, I'm sure you would feel their life was more valuable, I know I would.

Disclaimer....I am not saying you would take your eye of your child etc etc purely hypothetical

Ammi

31-05-2016, 05:20 PM

I have not said anything about tranquillisers, holding back or taking a risk I am afraid

And I would have been holding onto my children at all times in that situation so it would not have arisen

...whether the parents took their eyes off their child or not though and for however many moments..?..that would still have meant no danger at all to Harambe, he would have been safely in his enclosure...except that his enclosure wasn't safe for him because it was able to be breached...that is only and entirely the responsibility and fault of the zoo....regardless of any 'curious children'...

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 05:21 PM

I think you're being unreasonable tbh, people get distracted, it happens, wait till you have a kid yourself and come back to me when they're 5 and tell me that not one single time in their whole life did you get distracted :laugh:

I look after my neice a lot now and if we are out I don't let go of her hand. If I do she's in my eyeline constantly.

If I took her to the zoo I'd certainly pay her my undevided attention around an enclosure of potentially dangerous animals.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 05:27 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/31/17/34CCB76C00000578-3618113-image-m-55_1464710939235.jpg

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 05:28 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/31/16/34CC890200000578-3618113-image-a-23_1464708244230.jpg

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 05:28 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3618113/Kaley-Cuoco-Ricky-Gervais-lead-tributes-gorilla-killed-zoo-child-fell-enclosure.html

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 05:30 PM

The parents have more than one kid, it's tough to keep your eye on every kid. If you turn your eye for a second, anything can happen. Parents make mistakes, no parent is perfect.
If they find it difficult to keep track of their kids maybe they should have invested in a buggy or some reigns.

I'm not saying it wasn't an unfortunate accident but the parents should take some responsibility for clearly not being in control of their children.

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 05:42 PM

Witness heard the child tell his mother he wanted to get in the water, but she said 'no'

So the kid had already told his mother he wanted to get in the water, this could have easily been prevented.

LukeB

31-05-2016, 05:46 PM

How old is he? I remember I had a harness on when I went to the zoo with my parents.
http://www.losebabyweight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/8609558642892272.jpg

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 05:55 PM

4 I think it said.

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 06:02 PM

https://i.imgur.com/7WryBKv.jpg

billy123

31-05-2016, 06:22 PM

Lets have a game of spot the people with no children of their own. :joker:

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 06:25 PM

Lets have a game of spot the people with no children of their own. :joker:

or a game of spot the parents who dont stop their children climbing into a gorilla pit

:idc:

Mokka

31-05-2016, 06:27 PM

How old is he? I remember I had a harness on when I went to the zoo with my parents.
http://www.losebabyweight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/8609558642892272.jpg

Just last week then ?? :hehe:

Livia

31-05-2016, 06:36 PM

Lets have a game of spot the people with no children of their own. :joker:

Like having a kid automatically makes you all-knowing. Plenty of children are killed by their parents sometimes in the most horrific ways. So while I don't have kinds of my own, I've never murdered one either.

My take on this is, what the hell were the parents doing letting such a small child out of their sight. Secondly, how is it possible for a child get into the enclosure? They had no option but to kill the gorilla, which is as outrageous as it is tragic. The parents and the zoo are responsible for this.

user104658

31-05-2016, 06:46 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/31/17/34CCB76C00000578-3618113-image-m-55_1464710939235.jpg

Can't disagree with any of that; like I said before, I really can't think of any good reason that a dangerous wild animal's enclosure should be easily accessible by any member of the public, let alone a 4-year-old child. I can't see any way around it not being negligenceon the part of the zoo.

The parents, I think the issue here is the complacency that comes with unquestioning adherence to figures of authority - but as a society, we drum that into people FROM age 4. Basically... people have this idea that "There's no way that X would be allowed", "surely the people in charge will keep us safe", "the place wouldn't be allowed to be open if there was any danger" etc. etc.

Just look at the litigation culture... "Oh I tripped over a broken pieve of path, that's the council's fault for not fixing the path, they owe me..." rather than, "I should have been watching where I was going, I wasn't and tripped."

In short... when people think it's "impossible" for something like that to happen, they aren't considering the possibility of it at all, and like I said possibly become complacent, rather than truly negligent.

In truth... there's really no one "looking out for you and yours" other than yourself, most of the time, and you should live with that in mind. Not paranoia, per se, just awareness.

Ninastar

31-05-2016, 07:07 PM

https://i.imgur.com/7WryBKv.jpg

No, I'm sorry but this ****ing stupid and just plain laughable. He was not 'looking after the kid' at all. He dragged the kid by the ankle though water, multiple times... An expert has already said that he wasn't looking after the child, I don't know why people keep saying this. It's just cringey and stupid. :shrug:

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 07:13 PM

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 07:16 PM

which expert?

Somebody on facebook apparently.

waterhog

31-05-2016, 07:16 PM

as heart breaking as this is and it is wrong a child could get in but it had to happen. sorry if that upsets anyone but in reality - that was the only option with least risk.

Amy Jade

31-05-2016, 07:18 PM

Lets have a game of spot the people with no children of their own. :joker:

Yeah like the parents of Baby P...Oh no wait...Shannon Matthews mum...no wait ermmm

Being a parent doesn't mean they know better, that's a stupid statement.

Crimson Dynamo

31-05-2016, 07:19 PM

Ninastar

31-05-2016, 07:38 PM

which expert?

A woman who has been working with gorillas for over 10 years :shrug:

Ninastar

31-05-2016, 07:40 PM

I have seen "experts" call it both ways but how they know when there have been so few examples of this I have no idea

Its not a Lion or a Tiger

Its the fault of a disgusting zoo who trap and exhibit animals for profit

So what if it's not a lion or a tiger?? What does that have to do with anything? They are still classed as one of the most dangerous animals in the world...

Jake.

31-05-2016, 07:44 PM

The right thing was done at the time for the safety of the child. Sure, they could have left it to chance, but if the child had been killed, everybody would be asking why something drastic wasn't done.

However, the fact that the child was able to get into the enclosure in the first place is complete madness.

AnnieK

31-05-2016, 07:55 PM

No, I'm sorry but this ****ing stupid and just plain laughable. He was not 'looking after the kid' at all. He dragged the kid by the ankle though water, multiple times... An expert has already said that he wasn't looking after the child, I don't know why people keep saying this. It's just cringey and stupid. :shrug:

It's not really cringed or stupid though, there was another case in a zoo where a gorilla cradled an unconscious child who fell to not his enclosure, kept the other gorillas away and let the zoo staff rescue him. People are hoping that this gorilla was doing similar...he could have killed him in a second and he was dragging the child through the water, but other experts have said this is because he felt the screaming humans above where trying to get at him...which was why he moved him away. You can clearly see him holding hands at some point and being gentle... The gorilla is the victim in this ultimately but he paid the price for human error from all sides. :sad:

MTVN

31-05-2016, 08:10 PM

user104658

31-05-2016, 08:17 PM

Beats them being left to go extinct in the wild
... Because of other humans hunting them and destroying their homes for profit. I don't think we as a species can take the moral high ground when it comes to conservation: the vast majority of it is only necessary in the first place because of us.

Scarlett.

31-05-2016, 08:20 PM

There was simply no other option but to kill it, it would have mauled the child, Gorrilas are very violent creatures, hitting it with a sleep dart would have just enraged it further. Children have an amazing knack of finding ways to get themselves killed, while the parents should have been watching, I'm pretty sure they imagined the zoo keepers would have made the enclosure idiot/childproof.

MTVN

31-05-2016, 08:30 PM

... Because of other humans hunting them and destroying their homes for profit. I don't think we as a species can take the moral high ground when it comes to conservation: the vast majority of it is only necessary in the first place because of us.

Take the moral highground over who? I wasn't trying to lord it over gorillas for their inability to preserve their species

Also that doesn't change the fact that zoos are the most successful means of conservation we have though, short of dramatically transforming the whole way that humanity conducts itself

Johnnyuk123

31-05-2016, 08:55 PM

The parents are now being investigated.

DemolitionRed

31-05-2016, 08:56 PM

...whether the parents took their eyes off their child or not though and for however many moments..?..that would still have meant no danger at all to Harambe, he would have been safely in his enclosure...except that his enclosure wasn't safe for him because it was able to be breached...that is only and entirely the responsibility and fault of the zoo....regardless of any 'curious children'...

:clap1:

bots

31-05-2016, 08:57 PM

i feel sad that this incident has occurred, and they need to make sure lessons are learned from it

Shaun

31-05-2016, 09:31 PM

I'm just upset this means no more Dairy Milk ads with him

the truth

31-05-2016, 09:56 PM

This was 100% the zoos fault for having fences only 3 feet high. it was a disgrace to kill the gorilla. those who murdered him should be locked away for life. now build your fences higher and leave the animals in peace

joeysteele

31-05-2016, 10:05 PM

I hate zoos,I don't mind safari parks etc but zoos annoy me.

However zoos should be a 'safe' place for the protection of the animals, wild animals that is, that are in them.

So it is rather unjust and infuriating that careless parenting in such a place, has resulted in a said animal in that environment, had to lose its life.

No one should be able to get anywhere near the situation where they can fall, roll or stumble into the animal's environment.
I guess there was nothing else that could be realistically done after this happened but the zoo, should be prosecuted and maybe even closed down for it being ever able to in the first place.

However what on earth do families and people think a zoo is,it is full of potential dangers and making sure you are safe and also any children in your charge particularly, should be paramount.

the truth

31-05-2016, 10:36 PM

Liberty4eva

01-06-2016, 03:26 AM

The gorilla was the innocent one but he paid the price. The child, the zoo, and especially the parent were to blame but the gorilla was the one least responsible and that's what makes it tragic.

Nicky91

01-06-2016, 07:16 AM

I feel so sad for the Gorilla :( :( :bawling:

Cal.

01-06-2016, 07:20 AM

Like having a kid automatically makes you all-knowing Plenty of children are killed by their parents sometimes in the most horrific ways. So while I don't have kinds of my own, I've never murdered one either.

My take on this is, what the hell were the parents doing letting such a small child out of their sight. Secondly, how is it possible for a child get into the enclosure? They had no option but to kill the gorilla, which is as outrageous as it is tragic. The parents and the zoo are responsible for this.

This. All the mummy's on Facebook condemning anyone who says the gorilla shouldn't have been shot just cos 'you don't have children' is stupid.

Crimson Dynamo

01-06-2016, 07:21 AM

Cal.

01-06-2016, 07:23 AM

The child sounds like a little brat anyway. Gorillas>bratty children!

Ammi

01-06-2016, 08:03 AM

..well, the police are now investigating the parents and the leading up to the child getting into the enclosure so hopefully that will appease those on media sites who are responsible for death threats to the parents...my thoughts are still that regardless of any negligence found or not..a child wandering off is not the cause of Harambe's death..only a breach-able enclosure can be held accountable for that...

joeysteele

01-06-2016, 09:16 AM

it would have mauled the child, Gorrilas are very violent creatures

Lets see some evidence for this outrageous claim please?

I agree with what you say there, and I can see how they could not try to sedate it first too, as the shot could have initially really angered the Gorilla and would not have worked instantly.
Thereby endangering the child's life even more with more uncertainty as to any rescue too.

Niamh.

01-06-2016, 09:25 AM

I have seen "experts" call it both ways but how they know when there have been so few examples of this I have no idea

Its not a Lion or a Tiger

Its the fault of a disgusting zoo who trap and exhibit animals for profit

well yeah, that is the crux of it really, if the aim really is preservation than it should be done properly in sanctuaries not in Zoos, they're outdated. I'm sure they will eventually stop like the way circus animals are starting to be phased out but it will still take quite a while I'd imagine

Niamh.

01-06-2016, 09:27 AM

Take the moral highground over who? I wasn't trying to lord it over gorillas for their inability to preserve their species

Also that doesn't change the fact that zoos are the most successful means of conservation we have though, short of dramatically transforming the whole way that humanity conducts itself

:laugh2:

DemolitionRed

01-06-2016, 09:38 AM

it would have mauled the child, Gorrilas are very violent creatures

Lets see some evidence for this outrageous claim please?

We only have the opinion from those who have worked with and studied the behavior of gorillas but even those opinions are conflicting.

Jennifer Miller who has worked with these beings had this to say:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201605/why-was-the-gorilla-harambe-killed-the-cincinnati-zoo

Adamw92

01-06-2016, 09:39 AM

It's awful but shooting him with a tranq would have took too long to take effect, it could have easily angered him and led to the boy being injured, however, there should never have even been a situation like this in the first place, a little boy shouldn't have been able to even get in there and his parents should have noticed their son climbing into a gorilla enclosure. It's just really sad.

joeysteele

01-06-2016, 10:11 AM

Beso

01-06-2016, 11:15 AM

As long as they now fully utilise the gorillas body to make such things as gorilla hand ashtrays to sell in the shop so they can use the money to build safer enclosures then really,what harms been done?

the truth

01-06-2016, 11:45 AM

Kizzy

02-06-2016, 06:54 AM

Surely they could've tried something else as a distraction? food or something? :(

Niamh.

02-06-2016, 09:14 AM

Surely they could've tried something else as a distraction? food or something? :(

They did, they tried to get him to come in by enticing him with food I believe all the other Gorillas did go in except him

user104658

02-06-2016, 09:57 AM

They did, they tried to get him to come in by enticing him with food I believe all the other Gorillas did go in except him

What is tragic is, if in his head, he was like "Yeah I want to go in for food too but, ****, that little kid just fell all the way down here and he's scared and upset... maybe he's being chased by those screaming people up there... so I'm going to stay and make sure he's alright. You all go, guys."

And he got shot for it!

Bit of an allegory for the situation with humans though to be honest; I wouldn't go over to a lost / upset child to try to help when I'm on my own, for fear of some sour-faced mother charging at me screaming "Paedo!!!". I'd keep an eye on them and try to find a staff member wherever I was instead.

Niamh.

02-06-2016, 10:08 AM

What is tragic is, if in his head, he was like "Yeah I want to go in for food too but, ****, that little kid just fell all the way down here and he's scared and upset... maybe he's being chased by those screaming people up there... so I'm going to stay and make sure he's alright. You all go, guys."

And he got shot for it!

Bit of an allegory for the situation with humans though to be honest; I wouldn't go over to a lost / upset child to try to help when I'm on my own, for fear of some sour-faced mother charging at me screaming "Paedo!!!". I'd keep an eye on them and try to find a staff member wherever I was instead.

That's the way the world has gone though hasn't it? Like I read somewhere that single men aren't allowed in family theme parks on their own incase they're paedos, that's outrageous if it's true

user104658

02-06-2016, 10:22 AM

That's the way the world has gone though hasn't it? Like I read somewhere that single men aren't allowed in family theme parks on their own incase they're paedos, that's outrageous if it's true

Maybe there's a criteria of how paedo-y they have to look? Sort of a scale from 1 to Rolf Harris, and any hint of a trenchcoat is an automatic life time ban.

That said... who WOULD actually go to a theme park alone... that's one of the saddest things I've ever heard :(. And I actively like going places alone like the cinema / shopping / for lunch and coffee etc... but a theme park? :bawling:

Niamh.

02-06-2016, 10:29 AM

Maybe there's a criteria of how paedo-y they have to look? Sort of a scale from 1 to Rolf Harris, and any hint of a trenchcoat is an automatic life time ban.

That said... who WOULD actually go to a theme park alone... that's one of the saddest things I've ever heard :(. And I actively like going places alone like the cinema / shopping / for lunch and coffee etc... but a theme park? :bawling:

Yeah I know :laugh: But still, if that rule was there for women only there would be uproar

the truth

02-06-2016, 12:29 PM

Yeah I know :laugh: But still, if that rule was there for women only there would be uproar

true. society is marred not just by perverts but by thousands of false accusers who go unpunished and create a state hysterical paranoia and lies

thesheriff443

02-06-2016, 02:06 PM

Very sad that a beautiful animal should die,
But every day beautiful animals are tortured and killed some skinned alive needlessly by humans.
We live in a sick world.

billy123

02-06-2016, 03:09 PM

Like having a kid automatically makes you all-knowing. Plenty of children are killed by their parents sometimes in the most horrific ways. So while I don't have kinds of my own, I've never murdered one either.

My take on this is, what the hell were the parents doing letting such a small child out of their sight. Secondly, how is it possible for a child get into the enclosure? They had no option but to kill the gorilla, which is as outrageous as it is tragic. The parents and the zoo are responsible for this.Talk about purposely missing the point ffs :crazy: Bless ya little cotton socks. Your retoric is so silly.

Show me a parent that claims their child hasn't ever left their eyeline while they are out and about and i will show you a liar.

The Zoo did the right thing shooting the Animal they just had to but they should be prosecuted for making it possible for a child or any person for that matter too enter the enclosure. Its that simple.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a74_1464489122

the truth

02-06-2016, 03:50 PM

Talk about purposely missing the point ffs :crazy: Bless ya little cotton socks. Your retoric is so silly.

Show me a parent that claims their child hasn't ever left their eyeline while they are out and about and i will show you a liar.

The Zoo did the right thing shooting the Animal they just had to but they should be prosecuted for making it possible for a child or any person for that matter too enter the enclosure. Its that simple.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a74_1464489122

lol thats probably the most 100% incorrect post ever seen on this site. 1) The fence was only 3 foot high? why? thats 100% the zoo owners fault. They murdered the ape just to deflect attention from their own idiocy 2) What parents leave 4 year olds run around near a 3 foot fence a steep fall and king kong at the bottom, idiots. 3) Theres a h in rhetoric and 4) Only I'm allowed to argue with lovely legal eagle livia

billy123

02-06-2016, 03:54 PM

lol thats probably the most 100% incorrect post ever seen on this site. 1) The fence was only 3 foot high? why? thats 100% the zoo owners fault. They murdered the ape just to deflect attention from their own idiocy 2) What parents leave 4 year olds run around near a 3 foot fence a steep fall and king kong at the bottom, idiots. 3) Theres a h in rhetoric and 4) Only I'm allowed to argue with lovely legal eagle livia:joker::joker: Classic the truth.

Cherie

02-06-2016, 04:22 PM

You can tell the non parents on this thread, that said its one thing to lose sight of your kid, it's a completely different thing for a kid to have time to climb a three foot fence especially in a crowded public place where you should really have a hold of their hand :unsure: the Zoo keepers did the right thing they didn't have the benefit of time to think about it, it's a shame the gorilla had to die I lay that squarely at the hands of the parents.

Kizzy

02-06-2016, 07:53 PM

They did, they tried to get him to come in by enticing him with food I believe all the other Gorillas did go in except him

Ah right thanks, couldn't bring myself to watch the vid :(

Marsh.

02-06-2016, 08:49 PM