Abortion (Serious Debate) [Archive] - ThisisBigBrother.com

Bells

31-01-2007, 07:25 PM

It's sad where in some cases teenagers these days don't take things seriously at all and then if they do get pregnant just say, 'Oh I'll have an abortion' when for me I feel a lot more moral thought should be put into it. There's a religious sense as well, e.g. Catholics believe straight after conception a 'person' is formed, whilst others think when there's signs of eyes, a nose and ears can be seen, then it's a human. But at the end of the day, it's a life form, a being, and killing it due to carelessness is morally wrong. I also feel that it's the duty of the girl to just be more careful and try their utmost best not to be careless and get themselves in such a situation, but unfortunately obviously people still do. Of course if there's no other option, and is best for the baby, e.g. he/she would be brought into a poor family where the mother would be in no fit state to raise the baby, there's no husband etc. then the issue is more understandable.

~Kizwiz~

31-01-2007, 07:25 PM

I've been brought up to never ever even think about having one. Now I have an adult opinion of my own. It depends on the person and their beliefs. If the situation meets the need then so be it.

I personally wouldn't have one.... but I would never ever put down a person who has.

One another level.... if you do not condone abortion..... what about the morning after pill??? Isnt that the same... taking a life???

Originally posted by Supersue
Depends on circumstances I would say

What sort of circumstances do you consider it depends on??? Do you think its ok or not?? If you had a teenage daughter... would you let her have one?

Once again..... a really good topic for debate :thumbs:

Emilee

31-01-2007, 07:28 PM

Pregnancy is a good thing as long as it is wanted.
If you get pregnant for not taking precortions, thats our own daft fault.

Emilee

31-01-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Emilee
Really?? Does she want to keep it?

yea
She's 12 weeks now :hugesmile:

Thats awesome. I keep asking my brother to give birth (well not him) his girlfriend haha. She keeps talking about addoption, im like nooo, have your own!!! lol.

BigSister

31-01-2007, 07:30 PM

i would only abort if my life was in danger any other circumsttances and i wouldnt i couldnt go through with it its aliving thing after all

Lauren

31-01-2007, 07:31 PM

Interesting point Kizwiz, about the morning after pill being similar to abortion in that it takes a life.

However, I think (not sure, I'm really dumb with these things) that the morning after pill prevents the release of a specific hormone that releases the egg? If so, then I don't agree that this is taking a life because the life was never formed in the first place.

Chrizzle

31-01-2007, 07:42 PM

I don't agree with abortion. Its murder, isn't it?
The baby didn't do anything wrong.

If the baby is a 'mistake' live with it, don't blame the baby.

MarkWaldorf

31-01-2007, 07:45 PM

I'm not in favour of abortion. It is like murder, and isn't that a crime?

Lauren

31-01-2007, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Markus™
I'm not in favour of abortion. It is like murder, and isn't that a crime?

I agree, but I also think that IF the baby was born into a family that couldn't cope with it - it could affect the baby worse.

MarkWaldorf

31-01-2007, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markus™
I'm not in favour of abortion. It is like murder, and isn't that a crime?

I agree, but I also think that IF the baby was born into a family that couldn't cope with it - it could affect the baby worse.

Yeah, I was gonna write something like the up-bringing, but I didn't think I could go into it much. :laugh:

But at the end of the day, it is up to the mother whether she want's to raise a child or not. But abortion shouldn't be an answer.

Lauren

31-01-2007, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Markus™
But abortion shouldn't be an answer.

I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Chrizzle

31-01-2007, 07:52 PM

What happened to adoption?

If another family can give the child love, then thats a good solution.

MarkWaldorf

31-01-2007, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markus™
But abortion shouldn't be an answer.

I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Yes, the pill. :laugh:
But sometimes sex is always unprotected, which then causes the abortion. I don't see why they can't let the child live. If they're killing it because they can't provide, why not send it into foster? Then they'll know it'll get treated properly.

Ruth*Star

31-01-2007, 07:57 PM

I dont agree with abortion because its killing a baby that deseves a chance at life, its the mothers fault if it is unplanned, the only way i would agree with it is if the mothers life was threatedn and carrying on with a prgnancy could leave her worse off or even dead.

Lauren

31-01-2007, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Chrizzle
What happened to adoption?

If another family can give the child love, then thats a good solution.

Good point Chris :thumbs:

Although the fostering situation at the moment is terrible in the UK. My friends parents died a couple of years ago in a car crash and she was put into foster care where she was then further abused. She asked to move, and they put her with a family who wanted her to move out.
Now she's 18 they've MADE her move into a block of flat with constant security so she cannot have visitors over. It's terrible.

Feral

31-01-2007, 08:33 PM

I am of the generation that abortions were not so easy to obtain and was never used as a form of contraception, therefore always prevented in any way it could be!

Nevertheless I do believe in choice – but in the right circumstances i.e. ill health or either the mother or child, rape cases, immaturity. I have never judged anyone who has had one either as I may be in that situation myself and would find it totally hypocritical to ‘bash’ on any woman who chose to have one.

What disturbs me lately is that young girls see as a form of contraception – it is a decision which should not be taken lightly, you have to live with for years as it defo does something to your mental state. It is a destruction of a life potential – regardless of the circs it may come into the world.

Also you can terminate at 20 weeks and special reasons 24 weeks and yet a baby born at 24 weeks can theoretically survive albeit with health problems, thanks to modern medicine. It has complete organs, brain, limbs – not a bunch of cells some seem to think.

Nothing wrong with the morning after pill – can save on weeks of torment and worry. Obviously if you have no intention of getting pregnant then the next morning is the best time to deal with it (or at the point of intercourse, prob even better!)

I have a little girl myself – the best thing that has ever happened to me – but I was lucky enough to be in a relationship at the time, my own home, love to give and family to support us.

Princess

31-01-2007, 08:48 PM

I don't argee with them generally. But it is circumstances. If a person is not emotionally or finacally ready for a child say as a teenager then yes. It really does depend on the person as well. I know I could never ever have one.

Sophii3x

31-01-2007, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by Lauren
I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Trust me the pill doesn't work
My sister was on the pill when her baby was conceived

Lauren

31-01-2007, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Lauren
I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Trust me the pill doesn't work
My sister was on the pill when her baby was conceived

Oh no! Really?
Hmm, well I suppose there's always condoms, but thats terrible because I know a lot of people who rely on the pill for that, wouldn't it be terrible if they got pregnant without wanting the baby.

Sorry to hear about your sister Soph. Hope it turns out ok in the end.

Sophii3x

31-01-2007, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Lauren
I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Trust me the pill doesn't work
My sister was on the pill when her baby was conceived

Oh no! Really?
Hmm, well I suppose there's always condoms, but thats terrible because I know a lot of people who rely on the pill for that, wouldn't it be terrible if they got pregnant without wanting the baby.

Sorry to hear about your sister Soph. Hope it turns out ok in the end.

yea a lot of girls go on the pill becuase their lazy and be bothered to ask whoever to wear a condom

B8ut my sister proves that the pill doesn't work 100%.. God my sisters an idiot:laugh:

lily.

31-01-2007, 10:02 PM

I personally wouldn't, actually couldn't, have an abortion.

However, I am pro-choice, and I have no issue with women who do.

I think that a lot of people are careless when it comes to contraception but, I think it's naive to say they take abortion lightly. Most women require counselling after having a termination, and it can take years to get over it. Some women never do.

I would never ask my teenage daughter to have one if she was pregnant (god forbid), but I would support her choice to either terminate or continue with the pregnancy. Again, pro-choice.

Sunny_01

01-02-2007, 08:28 AM

I am totally pro-choice. I feel that if a woman/girl becomes pregnant and then decides that she does not want to proceed with the pregnancy for whatever reason she should have the choice to end it.

My daughter has just had the blood test you have when pregnant to determine whether you are high or low risk of having a baby with downs, whatever the outcome I will support my daughter in her decision making. It is long term many people have to think about not just the here and now.

I agree with Stropz when she says that women rarely take it lightly when having an abortion, in fact many women are left traumatised for years following one. This is one of those situations where it would be so easy to judge people!

Getting an abortion isnt that easy there are guidelines and timescales that have to be followed:

In England, Scotland and Wales abortion is regulated by the Abortion Act 1967. It accepts that abortion is justified but only in certain circumstances and before the 24th week of the pregnancy. The Act says that:

· an abortion can legally be carried out if two doctors agree that to continue the pregnancy would put the mother's life at risk or she is at risk of physical or mental injury (which can include serious emotional strain, depression and other forms of mental stress); or,
· two doctors agree that the child is likely to be born with severe mental or physical disability.

An abortion must be carried out before the 24th week of pregnancy, unless a serious risk of life occurs to the mother beyond this period.

If you are under 16 either your parents must give their consent or else the two doctors who agree to the termination must also agree that you are mature enough to understand what their decision means. If the abortion is being carried out after eight weeks then it will be under a general anaesthetic in which case permission may be required from your parents if you are under 16.

The would-be-father (whether married or not) has no legal right to prevent the mother from having an abortion. The decision is hers.

As for the morning after pill both of you were right Kiz and Laura.
The morning-after pill will prevent or delay the release of an egg from the ovary if given prior to ovulation, or it will help prevent the egg from traveling down the fallopian tubes and implanting in the uterus if you have already ovulated. The morning-after pill reduces the chance of getting pregnant; it does NOT cause an abortion

Ruth

01-02-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Lauren
I don't think it should get to the point where abortion is an option. If a female has unprotected sex and there's a chance she may get pregnant when she doesn't want - there's always the pill.

Trust me the pill doesn't work
My sister was on the pill when her baby was conceived

Oh no! Really?
Hmm, well I suppose there's always condoms, but thats terrible because I know a lot of people who rely on the pill for that, wouldn't it be terrible if they got pregnant without wanting the baby.

Sorry to hear about your sister Soph. Hope it turns out ok in the end.

yea a lot of girls go on the pill becuase their lazy and be bothered to ask whoever to wear a condom

B8ut my sister proves that the pill doesn't work 100%.. God my sisters an idiot:laugh:

The pill is more reliable than the condom in preventing pregnancy. But nothing works 100%. I hope your sister's okay.

I am pro-choice. If abortion was outlawed, it would simply 'go underground' and people would have illegal abortions, which would risk their health.

Also, some people who have abortions would not make good parents, and the baby would have a terrible life.

I also don't think anyone should be forced to have a baby because of a mistake. Obviously, I am not saying that it is the ideal solution, but I think it should be an option. I do think though, that the time limit for abortions should be reduced.

The other thing that people say is "there's always adoption." That's fine - until you realise how many children there are who are in care awaiting adoption, with no chance of ever actually being adopted.

ttw

01-02-2007, 12:39 PM

I think it all depends on the circumstance and the person, there is no way it should be made illegal, you cannot force a young woman who has been raped to have the baby...

I don't think adoption is much of a defense of banning it either as the amount of children in care today is massive.

I understand when people say that teenagers especially are using it as though it were contraception but I don't think the answer to that is banning it, I think the answer to that lies, partly, in education so the female does not get pregnant in the first place.

And the pill does work if it is used properly, only a small percentage fall pregnant whilst on the pill.

andybigbro

01-02-2007, 03:47 PM

i have to say that i dont agree on abortion even if they baby is going to be handicapped it is still enititles to a life

And if the mother and father love it then it should be happy

Ruth

01-02-2007, 04:01 PM

And if the mother and father don't love it....?

Sophii3x

01-02-2007, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Ruth
And if the mother and father don't love it....?

Adoption i suppose:sad:

Ruth

01-02-2007, 04:46 PM

But there are so many children in care, who have no chance of being adopted. Only a very small percentage of children who hope to be adopted ever are.

Sophii3x

01-02-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Ruth
But there are so many children in care, who have no chance of being adopted. Only a very small percentage of children who hope to be adopted ever are.

I know
I feel sorry for children who are put up for adoption
As you said, not much actually get adopted and they have to grow up in care homes

Lauren

01-02-2007, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Sophii3x
Originally posted by Ruth
But there are so many children in care, who have no chance of being adopted. Only a very small percentage of children who hope to be adopted ever are.

I know
I feel sorry for children who are put up for adoption
As you said, not much actually get adopted and they have to grow up in care homes

Not only grow up in care homes, but once they reach 18 they're put in secure buildings and have curfew and need checks for whoever visits them up until the age of 21. It's diabolical.

Sunny_01

01-02-2007, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by andybigbro
i have to say that i dont agree on abortion even if they baby is going to be handicapped it is still enititles to a life

And if the mother and father love it then it should be happy

That is a very limited opinion that is not really backed up with much argument. Thats like stamping your feet and saying "so there"

Who are we to say people have to bring unwanted children into the world. That removes peoples rights to reproduce, and one thing I am all for is our rights.

I think someone has already said that to make it illegal would force women to have the old fashioned back street type abortion which led to infertitlty, illness and death in some cases. All because they were just to scared to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy.

Feral

01-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Sunny_01

If you are under 16 either your parents must give their consent or else the two doctors who agree to the termination must also agree that you are mature enough to understand what their decision means. If the abortion is being carried out after eight weeks then it will be under a general anaesthetic in which case permission may be required from your parents if you are under 16.

But wasn't there a case not so long ago in which a school arranged one of their pupils to have an abortion without her mothers knowledge let alone consent. I was sickened by this - what right do they have to take over and help make childrens/young adult decisions without the parents involved.
It only came out because the girl couldn't bear telling her mum and regretted doing the termination.

The ironic thing was she (the girl) became pregnant again!!!

Have I got this wrong? Maybe she was over 16?

:puzzled:

Feral

01-02-2007, 08:12 PM

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,1215653,00.html

Thought so!!!

Legend

01-02-2007, 09:54 PM

I agree with abortion in every circumstance. I think that if a woman falls pregnant and doesn't want the baby then she should be able to get rid of it. There is already enough unwanted babies in the world without bringing in even more. If abortion wasn't legal and people didn't get the unsafe abortion then there would be so many children who wouldn't be cared for properly and possibly abused.

Also, the 'law' that says who 'fits the criteria' for abortion is crap too because anybody who just doesn't fancy a baby can come to the clinic and tell the doctor that they 'won't be able to cope with a baby and they don't know how they would treat the baby' etc just to fit the 'mentally unstable' criteria and therefore be entitled to an abortion.

I don't think anybody should have to keep a baby they don't want, yeah they made the mistake in most cases but we all make them, they shouldn't be kept with a baby that they don't want IMO.

GlitterEyes

10-02-2007, 02:23 AM

I think abortion is needed for rapes and certain cases but I don't think people should be allowed to have numerous abortions.

secrets

10-02-2007, 07:37 AM

i dont believe in killing a child at any cost.
people who do this tend to go through a lifetime of regret.

Ruth*Star

10-02-2007, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Feral
Originally posted by Sunny_01

If you are under 16 either your parents must give their consent or else the two doctors who agree to the termination must also agree that you are mature enough to understand what their decision means. If the abortion is being carried out after eight weeks then it will be under a general anaesthetic in which case permission may be required from your parents if you are under 16.

But wasn't there a case not so long ago in which a school arranged one of their pupils to have an abortion without her mothers knowledge let alone consent. I was sickened by this - what right do they have to take over and help make childrens/young adult decisions without the parents involved.
It only came out because the girl couldn't bear telling her mum and regretted doing the termination.

The ironic thing was she (the girl) became pregnant again!!!

Have I got this wrong? Maybe she was over 16?

:puzzled:

i read that story, the school nurse sorted out to two pills for her to have, she told her mum after she had she first pill. and she regretted it but had to to have the second pill, i never said why but it said she needed to have it, and her mother was convinced she had the second baby to replace the one she terminated.

Kristen

11-02-2007, 07:20 AM

Abortion is an individual choice however you have to be 110% sure about having one if you do. It's something most people regret all of there lifes. If I got pregnant there would be absolutely no way I would have one but if you think it's the right decision then go for it. If they made abortion illegal however it would be just like back when they made them illegal the first time and women had them in backalleys and were infertile there whole life. This is your own decision however and it should not be made illegal.

Ruth

11-02-2007, 09:45 AM

I don't believe people tend to regret it for their whole lives. I think if they have an abortion for the wrong reasons (ie., pressurised into one by partner, family) they will regret it, but if it's for the right reason, then not so much.

Ella

16-05-2007, 01:09 PM

My views on Abortion are very very strong.

It is wrong. In all circumstances except Rape, that is the only time I think an abortion should be allowed to take place.

I mean I've heard people using the excuse 'I was drunk' Or T'he condom split' and those excuses are pathetic and overused. If you were drunk, had sex and got pregnant then then Man and the Women are both slags! May seem harsh but its true, If the condom split, then theres the morning after pill or maybe people should learn how to put them on properly. If people are willing to have unprotected sex, then they should deal with the consequences. Simple as.

And I really do feel for women that have been raped, and as a result get pregnant, Like I said that is the only case I think abortion is the only option.

16-05-2007, 02:04 PM

I agree with Ella's point about rape, the child would probably be despised by the mother as it grew up. Personally I'm pro-choice, I think women should be allowed to abort unwanted children. However, I'm presuming that there are women out there who abuse the system and just don't use protection, safe in the knowledge they can abort the child later. I think that's a terrible view, and more should be done in schools to teach us about the pros and cons of abortion, because I've certainly never been taught about that, and it shows within the group of people I've been growing up with, I know many girls who've had abortions and they're often very childlike themselves; growing up too fast etc.

Ruth

16-05-2007, 02:20 PM

No doubt there are people who abuse the system - isn't it the same with everything though? It's easy to judge someone when you've never trodden in their footsteps. I personally support the right of every woman to choose. There are too many unwanted children in the world already - and I don't buy the 'adoption' argument. The amount of children hoping to be adopted - who never will be - is huge.

Incidentally, sometimes you can do everything right - take all the precautions in the world, and STILL become pregnant. Is it fair to the baby if the mother is unable to cope, financially or emotionally? Is it right to bring a child into the world under those circumstances?

It's not fair to say that if someone gets drunk and pregnant, then they are a slag. Are they a slag if they get drunk and have sex, but don't get pregnant? If you think they are being that irresponsible, do you really think they would make good parents?

bananarama

16-05-2007, 06:04 PM

Abortion (Slaughter) for social convenience which is what most abortions are is a policy that Adolf Hitler would have been proud of.

We won the war did we.........!!!! I have to wonder as we have sadistic evil policies that have and will kill far more than Hitler could have dreamed of.

Abortion should be strictly for survival reasons if the mother life is in danger or the baby is known to have major health problems then the mother with advice from the medical world should be allowed to decide,

Slaughtering the unborn for any other reason is murder and murder on a scale far greater than Hitler ever dreamed of.....:devil::devil:

Ruth

17-05-2007, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by bananarama
Abortion (Slaughter) for social convenience which is what most abortions are is a policy that Adolf Hitler would have been proud of.

We won the war did we.........!!!! I have to wonder as we have sadistic evil policies that have and will kill far more than Hitler could have dreamed of.

Abortion should be strictly for survival reasons if the mother life is in danger or the baby is known to have major health problems then the mother with advice from the medical world should be allowed to decide,

Slaughtering the unborn for any other reason is murder and murder on a scale far greater than Hitler ever dreamed of.....:devil::devil:

Well, I sure hope the view from up there on the moral high ground is nice.

People have abortions for all sorts of reasons. Many women are terrified, desperate and alone. Likening them to Hitler does not help anybody - that in itself is cruel and un-necessary, and not to mention that it is a ridiculous comparison.

I'm very surprised actually - I certainly never thought that the most offensive post I ever read on this forum would be one of yours.

Have to smile at the irony of a post that slates abortion, but then deems it okay, if the baby has severe health problems. So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?

Dr43%er

17-05-2007, 11:16 AM

"So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?" I totally agree. That is more Hitler like than having a choice.

I am pro choice. How anyone can use terms like murders and slaughter is beyond me.

Can I ask, the people who are against it. Are you religious?

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Should the man have say? After all, it is half his.

Ella

17-05-2007, 11:18 AM

GiRTh

17-05-2007, 11:21 AM

I'm Pro-choice. A woman can do what she like to her body and if she wants an abortion then she should be allowed to have it.

~Kizwiz~

17-05-2007, 11:28 AM

I agree with Pro-choice, nobody should take away a right over my body. However, I dont agree with people using abortions like a controceptive. Some people have had several and there should be a number that you should only be allowed to have.

Ella

17-05-2007, 11:30 AM

I read somewhere that a women can only have 3 abortions, after that she cant have kids anymore, so its quite shocking that women are doing this just because they couldn't be bothered using a condom.

~Kizwiz~

17-05-2007, 11:32 AM

But some people do that...... not sure about the 3 rule.... its good if thats true

Ella

17-05-2007, 11:35 AM

I think its true..I read it somewhere. I mean after 3 they can't concieve full stop. Even with Fertility treatment. I am going to see if I can get any more infomation on that.

~Kizwiz~

17-05-2007, 11:40 AM

I guess its like a DNC.

Dr43%er

17-05-2007, 11:41 AM

I would never dream of telling some on to get rid but if they got rid without talking to me I would be upset. After all it is half mine.

Going off on a slight tangent. For those who say the man should have no say as it is her body, how do you feel about the case where the only chance for the woman to have kids is with her ex's and hers embryo that has been stored and he is saying no. Does her perceived right (I don't see it as a right) to a baby out way his right not to become a farther?

Ella

17-05-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Dr43%er
I would never dream of telling some on to get rid but if they got rid without talking to me I would be upset. After all it is half mine.

Going off on a slight tangent. For those who say the man should have no say as it is her body, how do you feel about the case where the only chance for the woman to have kids is with her ex's and hers embryo that has been stored and he is saying no. Does her perceived right (I don't see it as a right) to a baby out way his right not to become a farther?
But surely if they are Ex's and the Man is saying no then legally it can't happen anyway without the Mans consent?

Ruth

17-05-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Ella
I think its true..I read it somewhere. I mean after 3 they can't concieve full stop. Even with Fertility treatment. I am going to see if I can get any more infomation on that.

That's not true.

And yes, I think the father should have a say.

Ella

17-05-2007, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Ella
I think its true..I read it somewhere. I mean after 3 they can't concieve full stop. Even with Fertility treatment. I am going to see if I can get any more infomation on that.

That's not true.

And yes, I think the father should have a say.
How do you know its not true? Can you post some sources on that please...and I didnt say it WAS true, I just said I read it somewhere...

Dr43%er

17-05-2007, 12:07 PM

Well I did just type a 3000 word essay on human rights and where it could go if she won, but it disappeared and i cant be arsed again.

Ella

17-05-2007, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Dr43%er
Well I did just type a 3000 word essay on human rights and where it could go if she won, but it disappeared and i cant be arsed again.

Lol noo i wasn't on about you! I was talking about Ruth..she seems preety sure that what I read was wrong, I was just asking for proof.

~Kizwiz~

17-05-2007, 12:28 PM

I am very pro-choice, but I wouldnt have one myself. Even talking about abortion makes me hug my bump..... But I dont think it should be legal up to 24 week...... thats just too late in my opinion

Ella

17-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Yeah knowing that some women actually can give birth to perfectly normal babies at 24 weeks, It makes me sick to think some women have abortions at that late stage

Bells

17-05-2007, 12:52 PM

That raises the scenario where you have two wards in the same hospital - one battling to save a 21 week old foetus, and the other aborting it...

Ella

17-05-2007, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Ash
That raises the scenario where you have two wards in the same hospital - one battling to save a 21 week old foetus, and the other aborting it...

Yeah exactly. There needs to be a new law about that surely. Because to me that's just inhumane..

Diablo

17-05-2007, 01:13 PM

I think it depends on the indiviadual circumstances.. personally though I wouldn't do it..

Ruth

17-05-2007, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Ella
Originally posted by Dr43%er
Well I did just type a 3000 word essay on human rights and where it could go if she won, but it disappeared and i cant be arsed again.

Lol noo i wasn't on about you! I was talking about Ruth..she seems preety sure that what I read was wrong, I was just asking for proof.

I'm speaking from experience. Not my own, I hasten to add.
My best friend at college had three abortions over ten years (which I was shocked by). I went to the abortion clinic with her for one of them, and was talking to another girl there, who was on her fourth abortion, which rather suggests that she was able to get pregnant after the third.

And I wasn't trying to be argumentative either, which you seem to think I might have been. I was on my way out when I posted my last post, so had to keep it quick.

Personally I believe that if someone has had three abortions, there are obviously issues which need to be addressed somewhere. I don't believe in abortion as an alternative to contraception.

GiRTh

17-05-2007, 01:53 PM

I think a woman is allowed three abortions but if she gets pregnant again she will not be granted one.

Ruth

17-05-2007, 01:59 PM

The girl at the clinic had definitely had four, or to clarify, she was there for her fourth one. But this was a few years ago. I have just been googling like crazy and can find anything to suggest that after three abortions a woman can't concieve. As I said earlier, I know someone who has had two children after having had three abortions.

All the articles I can find have said that an abortion does not affect fertility at all (unless there is some complication of course).

Ruth

17-05-2007, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Ella
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Ella
I think its true..I read it somewhere. I mean after 3 they can't concieve full stop. Even with Fertility treatment. I am going to see if I can get any more infomation on that.

That's not true.

And yes, I think the father should have a say.
How do you know its not true? Can you post some sources on that please...and I didnt say it WAS true, I just said I read it somewhere...

Was I accusing you of lying?! No. You just said that you read something somewhere and I said it wasn't true. It wasn't a personal attack on your honesty or anything like that. You seem to have taken it very personally.

Ruth

17-05-2007, 02:17 PM

I should be working but a quick google search found these two articles...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_infe.htm

http://www.fwhc.org/qa/ab-multiple.htm

I could look for more, but frankly, I have far too much work to do. I have not been able to find one single article which suggests that abortion affects fertility (except for rare complications).

As I said before, I wasn't questioning your honesty - which you seem to think I was. What's the point of having a debate if someone isn't allowed to tell someone else when something isn't correct?

Sunny_01

17-05-2007, 06:00 PM

I am very much pro-choice.

I do think that you should discuss it with your partner, but I think the ultimate decision lies with woman who has to go through with the procedure.

Ella

17-05-2007, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Ruth
I should be working but a quick google search found these two articles...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_infe.htm

http://www.fwhc.org/qa/ab-multiple.htm

I could look for more, but frankly, I have far too much work to do. I have not been able to find one single article which suggests that abortion affects fertility (except for rare complications).

As I said before, I wasn't questioning your honesty - which you seem to think I was. What's the point of having a debate if someone isn't allowed to tell someone else when something isn't correct?

I wasn't having a go at you! I was just wondering if you have any sources, Becuase I am interested to know. And don't try making out like I am saying your point wasn't valid. I was simply asking for proof! Which I think I have a right to!

Ruth

18-05-2007, 07:45 AM

Okay Ella, looks like there was a breakdown in communication. When I wrote "That isn't true," it probably looked a bit abrupt, but to tell the truth I was posting in a real rush. I wasn't accusing you of lying or anything like that. Sorry if I misunderstood what you posted. It was a very stressful day yesterday:spin2:

Ruth

18-05-2007, 08:09 AM

Ella, check your u2u honey
x

18-05-2007, 09:48 AM

I think that there are two particular "types" of situation that really annoy me; where one prospective parent blocks the intended action of the other (e.g. the father makes the mother abort, or the mother refuses to abort for the father - in both cases, without any serious discussion.) or when people take advantage of the system and just abort every time. It's saddening.

Ella

18-05-2007, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Ruth
Okay Ella, looks like there was a breakdown in communication. When I wrote "That isn't true," it probably looked a bit abrupt, but to tell the truth I was posting in a real rush. I wasn't accusing you of lying or anything like that. Sorry if I misunderstood what you posted. It was a very stressful day yesterday:spin2:

I'm sorry if you thought I was having a go at you. I really wasn't, Its just my way of speaking that some people misunderstand I think. And thanks for the U2U, That was really nice.

x

Right now thats sorted...Back to the topic!

Sunny_01

18-05-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Z
I think that there are two particular "types" of situation that really annoy me; where one prospective parent blocks the intended action of the other (e.g. the father makes the mother abort, or the mother refuses to abort for the father - in both cases, without any serious discussion.) or when people take advantage of the system and just abort every time. It's saddening.

Discussion is the key Z! I truly believe that discussions should take place between everyone involved but the ultimate decision is the womans, after all its her body.

A potential father has no legal rights over a foetus. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is made between the woman and her doctor. Which I am not saying I agree with but things would become very difficult if it were not that way, I mean how do you force a woman to continue with a pregnancy she does not want, she will do everything with in her power to stop this!

Ruth

18-05-2007, 03:42 PM

I agree with Sunny. I do believe that the father should be able to have a say, but there is no way that he should be able to force a woman to abort, or force a woman to have a baby that she does not want.

Ella

18-05-2007, 04:11 PM

I agree to a certain extent..But at the end of the day. I feel that ultimately it is the womens choice her body ect ect. As long as she explains and talks through her decision with the Father.

bananarama

20-05-2007, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Dr43%er
"So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?" I totally agree. That is more Hitler like than having a choice.

I am pro choice. How anyone can use terms like murders and slaughter is beyond me.

Can I ask, the people who are against it. Are you religious?

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Should the man have say? After all, it is half his.

To answer one question. No I am not religious at all. My views are not based on religious belief but instead on right and wrong. Put simply would pro abortionists like to be destroyed because you are an inconvenience to someone!!!

My post has no doubt offended some. When I here people defending the slaughter of the unborn without good reason then I too am offended and have to put up with hearing it.

As for the male having a choice. It takes two to tango so two should decide.......

It is said the woman has the right to decide because it is her body. Not any more there are now two bodies. One of which has no say and nobody to save them from the slaughter of convenience... Lazy birth control....Oh I am expecting a baby!!! Oh how inconvcenient....I know I'll go and get advice on how to kill it.......Typical of todays cold blooded selfish society....

bananarama

20-05-2007, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by bananarama
Abortion (Slaughter) for social convenience which is what most abortions are is a policy that Adolf Hitler would have been proud of.

We won the war did we.........!!!! I have to wonder as we have sadistic evil policies that have and will kill far more than Hitler could have dreamed of.

Abortion should be strictly for survival reasons if the mother life is in danger or the baby is known to have major health problems then the mother with advice from the medical world should be allowed to decide,

Slaughtering the unborn for any other reason is murder and murder on a scale far greater than Hitler ever dreamed of.....:devil::devil:

Well, I sure hope the view from up there on the moral high ground is nice.

People have abortions for all sorts of reasons. Many women are terrified, desperate and alone. Likening them to Hitler does not help anybody - that in itself is cruel and un-necessary, and not to mention that it is a ridiculous comparison.

I'm very surprised actually - I certainly never thought that the most offensive post I ever read on this forum would be one of yours.

Have to smile at the irony of a post that slates abortion, but then deems it okay, if the baby has severe health problems. So what you're saying is that abortion is cruel unless somebody deems the baby imperfect enough to be subject of an abortion?

Moral high ground I don't think so. Not supporting the needless destruction of life is not a moral high ground simply of knowing right from wrong.

You find my post offensive. I find the support of killing for convenience offensive.

The abortion debate is a very hot potato and will raise very strong passions from both sides of the fence.....In such a debate if one is to speak true to oneself then there is always the possibility of offence......

Ruth. To put the record straight as my original post was beneath your post. My comments were not targeting you in particular. It was a general comment for all people who think killing for convenience is just fine and dandy...

You query my comment on supporting abortion for the possibly severly disabled unborn. By disabled I mean if the would be child were to have an existance that would be a life long torture of illness and suffering. In such cases if it were certain that a baby may be born to that fate then abortion for reasons of humanity is in my view acceptable just like some belive that severly sick and suffering adults should have the right to have there lives prematurly terminated.Now thats another hot potato of a debate

Ruth

20-05-2007, 10:34 AM

If you are against abortion, fair enough. I wasn't criticising you for that opinion, but more for your Hitler comparisons. And that you seem to think it's not okay for someone to decide to abort a healthy baby, but it's okay for them to make a decision about what kind of life a disabled baby would have, and then to take the decision to abort. What say does that baby get?

Also, I would say that while a lot of unwanted pregnancies are as a result of lazy birth control, many aren't. Sometimes you can do everything right, and still get pregnant.

bananarama

20-05-2007, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Ruth
If you are against abortion, fair enough. I wasn't criticising you for that opinion, but more for your Hitler comparisons. And that you seem to think it's not okay for someone to decide to abort a healthy baby, but it's okay for them to make a decision about what kind of life a disabled baby would have, and then to take the decision to abort. What say does that baby get?

Also, I would say that while a lot of unwanted pregnancies are as a result of lazy birth control, many aren't. Sometimes you can do everything right, and still get pregnant.

The reason I use the Hitler comparison is because that was the culture of Hitler. Kill what he does not approve of....Thats a fact I am afraid of which there is no escape.

I have explained in detail my view on when abortion is justifiable perhaps you may wish to read again as I don't understand your logic on that point!!!

Of course its true pregnancy can occure even with the best of planning.......An inconvenient baby still does not mean the poor child should be killed. Why not adoption!!!

What we have at present is effectivel abortion on demand. The killing of the unborn for no justifiable reasons other than they are not wanted.....Hitler did not want the Jews.So what did he do.....You guessed. He killed them.....I am sorry but I cannot say sorry for the comparison because the sentiment is the same....Regards......bananarama

Sunny_01

20-05-2007, 04:21 PM

At what stage do you say that they will be handicapped "enough" to justify abortion? surely by your logic we have no right to decide this!

I just feel that rather than bring more unwanted children into this world a termination is the best option for some people. Childrens homes are busrting at the seams in this country so adoption is not always an option.

I just feel strongly that women have the right to end an unwanted pregnancy. I have 2 beautiful children but had no desire to have more so had I by some chance ended up pregnant again I would have had to seriously consider a termination.

I have a friend who has had a termination and it was not a decision she made easily but she has not regreted it, she was not at a good place in her life and had nothing to offer to a child. I certainly wouldnt want her to be treated badly for this decision or called cruel names for it.

Ruth

20-05-2007, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by bananarama
[quote]Originally posted by Ruth
Of course its true pregnancy can occure even with the best of planning.......An inconvenient baby still does not mean the poor child should be killed. Why not adoption!!!

Well obviously we are not going to agree on this point...fair enough.

However, seeing as you have asked 'why not adoption' - there are literally thousands of children who need homes in the UK. Most of them have no hope of getting adopted. The hard fact is that there are nowhere near the amount of prospective adoptive parents to take in the amount of children who hope to be adopted.

Lil-Lindz

20-05-2007, 08:29 PM

Im not sure about abortion, i dont think people should do it unless it is for a medical reason, however if i was in the situation of being pregnant when i didnt want to be im not sure what i would do

InTheFade

05-06-2007, 12:23 PM

I personally don't think that abortion is the worst thing in the world and I'm the furthest thing away from ignorant on this subject but it is a matter of opinion and I can understand why so many people are against it. I do believe that the time limit in which abortion can be carried out should be reduced as 24 weeks is far too late into pregnancy and also, the number of abortions a woman can have should be restricted.

sarahtheangel

11-06-2007, 02:39 PM

abortions !!! well my view is unless the mother is raped , in serious danger of carrying the child or there is enough evidence that the baby will have no quality of life int the world then it should not happen there is to much abortions being used for contraceptive reasons and this is not a reason to have 1 what with the contraceptive available now adays there is no excuse.

001steven

12-06-2007, 03:47 PM

depends on circumstances

Psylocke

12-06-2007, 03:48 PM

Individuals choice.

spitfire

12-06-2007, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by sarahtheangel
abortions !!! well my view is unless the mother is raped , in serious danger of carrying the child or there is enough evidence that the baby will have no quality of life int the world then it should not happen there is to much abortions being used for contraceptive reasons and this is not a reason to have 1 what with the contraceptive available now adays there is no excuse. And what if the contraception fails?Accidents do happen.

Originally posted by Psylocke
Individuals choice. Agreed.:thumbs:

sarahtheangel

13-07-2007, 09:21 AM

how many fails should a woman be able to have

Stu

13-07-2007, 09:24 AM

Anybody ever hear of Dr. Gunn?! He was a pro choice abortionist who was killed by pro-lifers. Marilyn Manson did a song on him entitled 'get your gunn' claiming that it was the greatest hypocricy he witnessed growing up.

Anyway im pro choice. I have the position that you must live in order to die. And then death is wrong.

In that respect theirs nothing wrong with abortion in my point of view.

sarahtheangel

13-07-2007, 09:29 AM

sorry but no one is thinking of the babys choice in britian upto 24 weeks you can have an abortion, babys can survive at that gestation and many abortions are born alive then they leave the baby to die thats not right have any of you looked at images of abortions it so usetting

Ella

13-07-2007, 09:38 AM

I agree Sarah. Its shocking to think some women kill their child at 24 weeks. People can give birth to perfectly healthy babies at that age. Women that do have abortions this late on are selfish and IMO should feel ashamed of themselves.

Stu

13-07-2007, 09:45 AM

In that case an argument can be made that obviously abortions should nto be made that late into the pregnancy.

Ella

13-07-2007, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Stu
In that case an argument can be made that obviously abortions should nto be made that late into the pregnancy.

Yeah I totally agree with that. I think it should be reduced to 8 weeks. A women knows when shes had unprotected sex and should know what she wants to do as soon as she finds out.

Stu

13-07-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Ella
Originally posted by Stu
In that case an argument can be made that obviously abortions should nto be made that late into the pregnancy.

Yeah I totally agree with that. I think it should be reduced to 8 weeks. A women knows when shes had unprotected sex and should know what she wants to do as soon as she finds out.
Exactly. Fail safe plans should come into immediate effect when its somebodys potential life your discussing. Anything else and the girls just silly.

Ella

13-07-2007, 09:54 AM

Its quite shocking to hear that some girls think that abortion is a quick solution to a one night stand, I heard this one girl say that her and her boyfriend didnt have any condoms..so they had unprotected sex. She then said 'It doesn't matter though, There's always abortion'. So she knew exactly what she was doing. The silly silly girl.

Stu

13-07-2007, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Ella
Its quite shocking to hear that some girls think that abortion is a quick solution to a one night stand, I heard this one girl say that her and her boyfriend didnt have any condoms..so they had unprotected sex. She then said 'It doesn't matter though, There's always abortion'. So she knew exactly what she was doing. The silly silly girl.
She should be made watch paint dry or watch an episode of Big Brother Big Mouth or something.

rex3

13-07-2007, 01:24 PM

well just have protected sex than

sarahtheangel

13-07-2007, 01:31 PM

thanks ella with agreeing with my points , i think it should be down to the morning after pill , even at 8 weeks a fetus is fully formed

LovelyL

26-07-2007, 07:53 PM

Its completely up to the girl and unless you are her and know her circumstances NOBODY can judge.

nodisharmony

26-07-2007, 09:00 PM

I think that more people should use condoms and nevermind the Pill, I know that Condoms can split, but there is the morning after pill, just in case?

But, if an Abortion is really something that the future mother wants, then that should be the right and just thing to do.

I am a Protestant, so that makes sense..

Catholics have a rule to follow, so they say???????

nodisharmony :angel:

spacebandit

26-07-2007, 10:13 PM

Womans Body
Womans Choice
Womans Decision

Billy

26-07-2007, 10:14 PM

At the end of the day, there are different circumstances not everything is black and white

Sunny_01

27-07-2007, 09:16 AM

I am very much pro-choice.

I accept that everyone has strong feelings about this issue and especially those with young children. I have 2 children and 1 grandchild yet would still support a family member or friend should they choose to terminate a pregnancy. Sometimes people dont even realise they are pregnant until they are in exccess of 8 weeks, does that mean they should have to have a baby that they have no desire to have. Is it fair to bring more unwanted children into the world?

I know all the arguments that people want to adopt, but some people can not stand the thought of being pregnant, and at the end of the day it is their body, no-one has the right to tell them what to do with it.

Does anyone want to see us go back to back street abortions which often left young women dead or maimed? I dont and if the laws changed thats what we would see more and more of. Young women to scared to talk to anyone they know and sneaking off to god knows where.

I just want some middle ground, I agree 24 weeks seems very late, considering a fetus is viable at that stage, it can and often will survive, my friends son was born at that stage and is now 19! However there have to be some exceptions, some tests you can not have until you are nearly 20 weeks which would highlight disabilities in a child, should they then be forced to continue with a pregnancy that they want to end. A 24 week termination is a lot rarer than people think in this country, most are done before 12 weeks, 24 weeks is only for extreme circumstances.

Ruth

27-07-2007, 09:53 AM

I agree 100% with Sunny, and am very much pro-choice. It's easy for people to stand in judgement and say abortion is wrong. I do agree that the legal limit of 24 weeks is too long, and it should perhaps be reduced to about 12 weeks (I wouldn't say 8 - only because my friend was not able to get in to have an abortion before she was 8 weeks pregnant; that was a while ago and I don't know if things have changed. Plus, if a girl's periods are irregular, she may not realise that she is pregnant until later on). And as Sunny said, there are certain tests which cannot be taken before a certain amount of time.

Adoption is an easy, but not a viable argument. There are far too many children hoping to be adopted, and who never will be, already.

Further, if abortion was made illegal (and don't hold your breath folks, because it's never going to happen), it wouldn't stop. You would get young women dying or becoming seriously ill, because they would seek illegal, backstreet abortions, which aren't safe to the mother or the baby.

Dr43%er

27-07-2007, 10:16 AM

Plus, if a girl's periods are irregular, she may not realise that she is pregnant until later on

Had a mate that was 6 and a half months gone before she found out. How the **** that happens I don't know, but it does.

secrets

27-07-2007, 10:34 AM

whichever way you look at it,its killing a life.
its time couples were more responsable and not be rushing into having sex without precautions.

some treat it all as a game and abortion is a quick fix.
if sex is all you want out of life ,guys get the snip,girls get sterilised. you dont ever deserve to be parents.

natjake2504

27-07-2007, 10:56 AM

i never beleived in them at first - but at the same time was not against people who had them.

Now i am a mum its hard to even think of abortions but a few months ago my 16 yr old cousin who i am really close to got raped and became pregnant from. After much thought and crying together she decied to have one - she just knew that she could not cope and feared that she would hate her unborn child.

Anyway - i just think that there are alot of girls out there that really do struggly with this and they dont always take the option lightly

Ruth

27-07-2007, 01:52 PM

You know, it's a bit unfair for people to keep insinuating that if someone gets pregnant by accident, then they have been irresponsible or stupid. Sometimes you can do everything right and take all necessary precautions and STILL get pregnant.

I think it's unreasonable to expect people to have vasectomys or sterilisations when they might be at an age when they don't even know if they want children or not.

We all know that there are some people who use abortion as an alternative to contraception, and that IS irresponsible, particularly as you can get free condoms from a family planning clinic. But these people need to be educated about how to protect themselves. Expecting them to have an operation that will mean they can never have children is not fair.

LovelyL

27-07-2007, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by secrets
whichever way you look at it,its killing a life.
its time couples were more responsable and not be rushing into having sex without precautions.

some treat it all as a game and abortion is a quick fix.
if sex is all you want out of life ,guys get the snip,girls get sterilised. you dont ever deserve to be parents.

Like who are you to say that?

spacebandit

27-07-2007, 04:42 PM

To all those who would deny women the right to choose what THEY do with THEIR OWN bodies, and say the child must be born - to explain what to do with the child some suggest adoption..

Are you willing to put your money were your mouths are ?, raise an unwanted child for 18+ years - feed it, clothe it, bring it up as a responsible adult - put your life out for the sake of the unborn child.

If so - how many have you adopted ?
or
How many do you plan to adopt ?

if not... why not ?

Sunny_01

27-07-2007, 04:50 PM

Like Ruth I can not believe that people are saying those that get pregnant are bein irresponsible. Many young women end up pregnant even after using contraception. No contraception is 100% effective so accidents do happen.

It's very cruel to suggest that just because someone is not ready straight away to become a parent that they be denied the right to go on to have happy, healthy children in the future..

There are so many babies and children in the care system in this country, do you not see the adverts for foster parents in the papers all the time! many of these are for children who simply cant be adopted for whatever reason. Do you think its fair to bring a child into the world that you do not want and subject it to a life of constant change and moving home and not knowing where you will be next? I dont, the system in this country is already at breaking point, why should we fail yet more children.

People talk about the rights of the unborn fetus, yet are happy to forget about the basic human rights of the mother to choose whether she wishes to continue with a pregnancy.

I personally would terminate a pregnancy were I to become pregnant at this stage in my life, I wouldnt do it happily but I would certainly not want anyone passing a judgement about what I can and can not do with MY body. CHOICE is the key here, we live in a country where we are given a CHOICE, who are any of us to deny anyone the right to choose what is best for them.

LovelyL

29-07-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Sunny_01

If the abortion is being carried out after eight weeks then it will be under a general anaesthetic in which case permission may be required from your parents if you are under 16.

If you are under 16 weeks it wont be done under general anaesthetic, you will be induced and have to deliver it like a normal birth

Sunny_01

29-07-2007, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by LovelyL
Originally posted by Sunny_01

If the abortion is being carried out after eight weeks then it will be under a general anaesthetic in which case permission may be required from your parents if you are under 16.

If you are under 16 weeks it wont be done under general anaesthetic, you will be induced and have to deliver it like a normal birth

This is not the case at all. There are different options depending on the stage of pregnancy and what is available in your area

Under 9 weeks women are now offered a medical abortion which is done via tablets that they take then a vaginal pessary the next day

Under 14 weeks is generally done under general anisthetic using the vacum method. Any later than this can mean a woman is induced and expected to deliver normally but this depends on circumstances etc...

When I said 16 I was on about aged 16.

If anyone wants to look at more info they can go to

http://www.brook.org.uk/content/M2_5_abortion.asp

LovelyL

29-07-2007, 06:58 PM

It is the case if you are like 15 weeks or 14 weeks you have to deliver it

Sunny_01

29-07-2007, 07:11 PM

thats not always the case at all though.

From nine to to 24 weeks - medical or drug treatments can be used at any stage of pregnancy, but the process takes longer later in pregnancy and you will need to come into hospital and may need to stay.

From five to 15 weeks - the pregnancy can be removed through a tube placed through the vagina into the cervix. This is called a suction termination and can be done as a day case, avoiding a hospital stay. This may be done under sedation, local anaesthetic or a light general anaesthetic.

From 15 to 19 weeks - it may be necessary to stretch the cervix to empty the womb, which usually means that a light general anaesthetic is required.

LovelyL

30-07-2007, 03:23 PM

Sorry Sunny but I dont know why you keep saying its not the case at all,when it is. There may be exceptions in some cases but generally at 15 weeks you will have tablets inserted to induce you and you will then deliver in a process very similar to normal birth with no anaesthetic. That is the case.

Sunny_01

30-07-2007, 04:09 PM

LovelyL

30-07-2007, 07:34 PM

I never said if you are under 14/15 weeks, I said if you are under 16 weeks. I said if you are 15 weeks that method will usually be used and you said thats not the case at all and I know that it is. I never once said if you are UNDER 15 weeks I said if you ARE 15 weeks.

Ruth

31-07-2007, 06:19 AM

Under 15 weeks, the suction method (horrible name) is generally used. However, if someone is really early on (I think it's under 9 weeks, but I'm not sure), they can give you a tablet to induce a miscarriage.

More info...

http://www.efc.org.uk/Foryoungpeople/Factsaboutabortion/Methods

Sunny_01

31-07-2007, 09:25 AM

LovelyL if you are under 15 weeks the suction method will be used, I have said that twice now Ruth has told you it, we have both left links.

Altering your posts wont change the facts, you said Under 16 weeks a woman would be made to go through Labour and that is NOT the case anyone under 15 weeks will be offered the suction method, (under 15 weeks is still under 16 weeks), I am confusing myself here.

If you are so certain that a woman UNDER 16 weeks has to go through labour post a link to a site that will tell us that, I think you will struggle though as you are wrong.

LovelyL

31-07-2007, 05:43 PM

I haven't altered anything.You can check all my posts. I said at 15 weeks that method will be used and 15 weeks is under 16 weeks. I didnt say any stage under 16 weeks. I dont really care about links tbh and I wont struggle because I know for a fact at 15 weeks that method is most likely to be used. I have u2u you.

LovelyL

31-07-2007, 06:01 PM

Sunny_01

31-07-2007, 07:04 PM

makes more sense when you say it like that LovelyL, so you can see where the confusion for myself and Ruth came from!

sexy_leigh

07-08-2007, 01:07 PM

if u were raped then abortion can be an option but there are many women especially teenagers who are aborting babies like it a bloody fashion trend, i saw a newspaper where a girl who was 17 was going for her SIXTH abortion i was WHAT THE ******* it has got to stop cos if your aborting babies when the time comes when your ready for children in alot of cases many women find out that they can't have children plus there are other options such as adoption, if your having unprotected sex then u must suffer the consequences and alot of women are saying that there not ready for a child whe exactly is the time to have a child??? those women should be lucky as many women can't bore children and haven't people heard of the moring after pill and condoms??? ABORTION IZ WRONG!!!

Ruth

07-08-2007, 01:20 PM

I'm going to say this one more time, because it seems like people are really having trouble understanding it.

1. All abortions are not the result of unprotected sex. Sometimes you can take all the precautions necessary, and still get pregnant.

2. Will people stop harping on about adoption? There are already far too many children in the care system, and most of the children who hope to be adopted NEVER will be. If all the people who had abortions had kept the children and put them up for adoption, it would just have meant thousands more unwanted children who were going to end up as nothing more than a statistic. Is THAT not cruel?

Sunny_01

07-08-2007, 01:25 PM

Abortion is wrong in your opinion, I respect your opinion and do agree that there should be a time to say enough is enough when women are repeatedly having abortions. That said I would hate someone to dictate to me about what I could and could not do with my body. I like the fact that we all have a choice about when to start a family. The morning after pill is all well and good for those who have un-protected sex but many girls and women have sex with contraception and still end up pregnant so that argument falls down at that point.

If women end up infertile following abortion, which is very very rare indeed then it is a risk they take, it is not the abortion that will make you infertile it is generally infection etc..

As for when is the right time, well only the pregnant person knows if they are ready for a child, no-one should have the right to dictate that a woman must continue with a pregnancy. Some women are just never ready to have kids.

Adoption, yeah in an ideal world, but sadly we dont live in an ideal world. Like I said in an earlier post the system in the UK is already at breaking point and sadly many would end up in the care system for their whole lives rather than the picture perfect idea people have that they would go to lovely families and live the dream.

I still stand by pro-choice, I think it is the key, choice!

InTheFade

09-08-2007, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Ruth
I'm going to say this one more time, because it seems like people are really having trouble understanding it.

1. All abortions are not the result of unprotected sex. Sometimes you can take all the precautions necessary, and still get pregnant.

2. Will people stop harping on about adoption? There are already far too many children in the care system, and most of the children who hope to be adopted NEVER will be. If all the people who had abortions had kept the children and put them up for adoption, it would just have meant thousands more unwanted children who were going to end up as nothing more than a statistic. Is THAT not cruel?

I agree - to say 'you can always give the baby up for adoption' makes it sound easy, you could be ruining more than one life by doing that.
Although, not always.

spacebandit

09-08-2007, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by sexy_leigh
plus there are other options such as adoption ....

.... ABORTION IZ WRONG!!!

So if you would stop abortion, or could stop abortion how many of those unwanted children DO you intend to adopt and raise ?

and how many are you currently taking care of and raising ?

sexy_leigh

09-08-2007, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by spacebandit
Originally posted by sexy_leigh
plus there are other options such as adoption ....

.... ABORTION IZ WRONG!!!

So if you would stop abortion, or could stop abortion how many of those unwanted children DO you intend to adopt and raise ?

and how many are you currently taking care of and raising ?
when i am of age which is 21 i am going to adopt, have you got a problem with that???

Sunny_01

09-08-2007, 09:37 PM

I dont think space bandit was saying he had a problem with what you do at 21, he was suggesting that there is more to it than just having them adopted. The system in our country is so complex that many children end up in the care system and moved from carer to carer and home to home as they get older because red tape stops them being adopted.

I dont think that adoption is the issue here though, the issue is that a woman in this country is entitled to make a decision about what she chooses to do with regards to a pregnancy. Why should she be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she does not want, why should she go through the motions and put more expense in terms of health care on an already over burdened system when she simply does not want to.

I hate all these flimsy excuses that women should be more careful, we are all human and all make mistakes in life, so should we forever have to live with a child that is not wanted. I am glad we live in a country that is pro-choice, I am glad that women have the right to make this decision about their own bodies.

spacebandit

09-08-2007, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by sexy_leigh
Originally posted by spacebandit
Originally posted by sexy_leigh
plus there are other options such as adoption ....

.... ABORTION IZ WRONG!!!

So if you would stop abortion, or could stop abortion how many of those unwanted children DO you intend to adopt and raise ?

and how many are you currently taking care of and raising ?
when i am of age which is 21 i am going to adopt, have you got a problem with that???

Good for you, I hope the child you raise turns out to be a good and decent person and you do an excellent job in that regard.

Yet you would force a woman to go through a pregnancy ?
You would force a woman to give birth ?
You would be happy to create an underclass of unwanted children ?

That is the language of the far right christian fundamentalists and they don't think through the consequences in any rational way.

Education is what is required and common social and personal responsibility and accountability, but even then mistakes happen and nothing is 100% effective except a hysterectomy.

Not laying down the law in what a woman can and cannot with her own body, regardless of your personal feelings on abortion it would not be you forced to carry that child to term.

Educate them don't subjugate them

Billy

09-08-2007, 10:00 PM

Abortion isnt wrong though. Each situation is different and nobody can judge someoen by having an abortion unless they know teh facts and such. Thats just my opinion

Sunny_01

09-08-2007, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Abortion isnt wrong though. Each situation is different and nobody can judge someoen by having an abortion unless they know teh facts and such. Thats just my opinion

A very responsible opinion as well, you said in 2 lines what we have guffed on about for weeks, I wish I could be as succinct as you lol

Billy

09-08-2007, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Abortion isnt wrong though. Each situation is different and nobody can judge someoen by having an abortion unless they know teh facts and such. Thats just my opinion

A very responsible opinion as well, you said in 2 lines what we have guffed on about for weeks, I wish I could be as succinct as you lol

Lol thanks

Tom4784

10-08-2007, 11:58 PM

I fully believe in choice, If soemone feels that they need an abortion then who are we to stop them? As long as it's want they want then it's their choice.

James_15

14-08-2007, 04:11 PM

I like babys.

I dont think abortion is good, but too many chavs are having sex and getting pregnant at like 16. Abortion is their only option cos they are immature. You can say its murder etc but put your self in their shoes and you feeel differently.

DONT YOU?

ha

x

LovelyL

14-08-2007, 05:41 PM

I'm sure most people like babies but for some women raising one and actually having one of their own just isnt an option for many different reasons. Not just chavs, any woman, any age, any class should be allowed to choose to have an abortion if it is the absolute right thing to do for them.

Sunny_01

14-08-2007, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by James_15
I like babys.

I dont think abortion is good, but too many chavs are having sex and getting pregnant at like 16. Abortion is their only option cos they are immature. You can say its murder etc but put your self in their shoes and you feeel differently.

DONT YOU?

ha

x

Not only Chavs have abortions, like LovelyL says people from every walk of life make the decision not to continue with a pregnancy for whatever reason.

Not all 16 year olds are chavs either and many that do get pregnant at 16 go on to have their babies and make good parents.