Stanford University Rape Trial [Brock is now appealing his conviction]

[Wizard.]

A 23 year old women was raped by a 20-year old student (now former student) and athlete Brock Turner next to a dumpster at a house party. She was unconscious and after he raped her 2 swedish students saw the attack and chased him off and contacted the police, of course he denied all allegations of rape. She wrote a letter to the judge and to the public in general to tell her story and it's really quite painful to read but also very moving and shows how horrible it must be to have people twist the situation so that they can get away with it. The jury found him guilty however the stupid judge only gave him a 6 month sentence as he had no previous convictions which is such BS there's a petition to get him sacked because he seems to side with the rapist: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stanford-university-rape-case-the-victims-letter-in-full-a7067146.html

[GiRTh]

QvjJow0IpEQ

Saw this story on the Young Turks channel today. Absolutely disgraceful the short sentence he's been given.

[Wizard.]

QvjJow0IpEQ

Saw this story on the Young Turks channel today. Absolutely disgraceful the short sentence he's been given.

his female friend has also stated today that his allegations are 'politcal correctness gone wrong' and that universities fuel this culture. wtf bitch no why do people make excuses.

[GiRTh]

Thankfully not everyone is on Brocks side Theres a vid on this page of Mike Golic saying prett much what everyone is thinking about the case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-golic-brock-turner_us_5756d7aae4b0b60682dee524

Unbelievable bullsh*t from his Dad that Brock cant sleep or eat his favourite foods after the attack. Poor him.

[kirklancaster]

I wonder what the abhorrent Dan A. Turner's warped and disgusting view will be if his son's soft little white buttocks prove too irresistible for some hairy lusty con in the jail showers and he is forcibly subjected to "20 minutes of action".

I doubt that the bastard will be as arrogantly and cruelly dismissive of the victim then.

[Niamh.]

his female friend has also stated today that his allegations are 'politcal correctness gone wrong' and that universities fuel this culture. wtf bitch no why do people make excuses.

Not raping someone is Political Correctness gone wrong???what the actual ****??

I read the dads letter, "20 minutes of action" and his poor sons life is ruined, disgusting

[Niamh.]

I wonder what the abhorrent Dan A. Turner's warped and disgusting view will be if his son's soft little white buttocks prove too irresistible for some hairy lusty con in the jail showers and he is forcibly subjected to "20 minutes of action".

I doubt that the bastard will be as arrogantly and cruelly dismissive of the victim then.

Yes but he's not a girl of course, girls should expect to be violated :shrug:

[jennyjuniper]

I am not excusing this behaviour one bit. Rape IS rape. But please all young women everywhere, don't drink so much that you don't know where you are or are unconcious, because there will always be some low life just waiting to take advantage.

[Niamh.]

For anyone who didn't read her victim impact statement you should have a read, it's very powerful and she expresses herself beautifully

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.cpXpb53Vgr#.cg4awRX6qJ

[the truth]

how does she know so much detail if she was unconscious is all that detail from the witness?

[Niamh.]

how does she know so much detail if she was unconscious is all that detail from the witness?

Did you read it? what detail do you mean?

[the truth]

Did you read it? what detail do you mean?

the extensive detail of the rape

[Niamh.]

the extensive detail of the rape

That was from the medical reports plus what the two Swedish men who came to her aid described

[the truth]

her description was understandably emotive and emotional and she is clearly intelligent. it did however also feel a bit contrived too.

[Shaun]

I wonder why that is, truthie x

[Crimson Dynamo]

We have a legal system for a reason, the facts were laid out and both sides spoke and the judge judged. If you dont like then that is fine but it the way the law works.

[Niamh.]

We have a legal system for a reason, the facts were laid out and both sides spoke and the judge judged. If you dont like then that is fine but it the way the law works.

The Jury found him guilty, the judge passed sentence extremely leniently, that should be questioned and allowed to be contested imho

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Jury found him guilty, the judge passed sentence extremely leniently, that should be questioned and allowed to be contested imho

there is a process to do this i think yes

[bots]

Not raping someone is Political Correctness gone wrong???what the actual ****??

I read the dads letter, "20 minutes of action" and his poor sons life is ruined, disgusting

One could equally say 5 seconds of action to slit someones throat. Its no wonder the son behaves as he does.

[Niamh.]

One could equally say 5 seconds of action to slit someones throat. Its no wonder the son behaves as he does.

yup

[Northern Monkey]

his female friend has also stated today that his allegations are 'politcal correctness gone wrong' and that universities fuel this culture. wtf bitch no why do people make excuses.

That's the problem with this whole victim culture thing that's going on atm.There are so many feminists trying to say that everything is rape that when real awful rapes do happen they are not taken as seriously because people don't know if it's real or not.Hardcore feminists,in universities especially are destroying their own cause by being idiotic.
Some people will conflate real rape accusations with 'political correctness gone wrong' because the lines have been blurred so much now by this extreme version of feminism.
Feminism was a great and much needed movement but it has turned into a nonsensical man hating monster.Some real common sense needs to be injected into the whole movement so real rapes can be dealt with efficiently and properly and people will take them more seriously.

[Niamh.]

That's the problem with this whole victim culture thing that's going on atm.There are so many feminists trying to say that everything is rape that when real awful rapes do happen they are not taken as seriously because people don't know if it's real or not.Hardcore feminists,in universities especially are destroying their own cause by being idiotic.
Some people will conflate real rape accusations with 'political correctness gone wrong' because the lines have been blurred so much now by this extreme version of feminism.
Feminism was a great and much needed movement but it has turned into a nonsensical man hating monster.Some real common sense needs to be injected into the whole movement so real rapes can be dealt with efficiently and properly and people will take them more seriously.

whether you subscribe to that opinion or not, this case absolutely was rape, the guy ran when the two Swedish men came to check if the girl was alright and she was lying unconscious behind a dumpster covered in cuts and dirt

[Northern Monkey]

whether you subscribe to that opinion or not, this case absolutely was rape, the guy ran when the two Swedish men came to check if the girl was alright and she was lying unconscious behind a dumpster covered in cuts and dirt

Yep i believe that and the guy should have been banged up for much much longer.
I'm more talking about peoples reaction to it and statements like 'political correctness gone wrong'.I bet a good few people will have that view.If the lines hadn't been blurred so much then people would be far less inclined to jump to conclusions like that,Specially people in that student environment and especially in the US.

[Niamh.]

Yep i believe that and the guy should have been banged up for much much longer.
I'm more talking about peoples reaction to it and statements like 'political correctness gone wrong'.I bet a good few people will have that view.If the lines hadn't been blurred so much then people would be far less inclined to jump to conclusions like that,Specially people in that student environment and especially in the US.

yeah I get what you're saying, I just wouldn't like this girls case to be tarred with that brush, all these cases are pretty unique and should be treated as such

[Livia]

If the girl was in my family I wouldn't want him in prison for long. I'd want him out where I could get to him. And his dickhead father too.

[the truth]

That's the problem with this whole victim culture thing that's going on atm.There are so many feminists trying to say that everything is rape that when real awful rapes do happen they are not taken as seriously because people don't know if it's real or not.Hardcore feminists,in universities especially are destroying their own cause by being idiotic.
Some people will conflate real rape accusations with 'political correctness gone wrong' because the lines have been blurred so much now by this extreme version of feminism.
Feminism was a great and much needed movement but it has turned into a nonsensical man hating monster.Some real common sense needs to be injected into the whole movement so real rapes can be dealt with efficiently and properly and people will take them more seriously.

100% right ...33% of police time is investigating sex allegations , mostly historical. some of the accusations are he touched my bottom in a lift 30 odd years ago. ridiculous nonsense. this takes away time and money from real victims and real cass such as this one. false accusers should rot in prison along with the real rapists out there

[Niamh.]

100% right ...33% of police time is investigating sex allegations , mostly historical. some of the accusations are he touched my bottom in a lift 30 odd years ago. ridiculous nonsense. this takes away time and money from real victims and real cass such as this one. false accusers should rot in prison along with the real rapists out there

mmm I do agree with that, unfortunately in a lot of cases it's extremely difficult to prove either way, mostly it's one persons word against the other

[Crimson Dynamo]

the problem is that rape is a catch-all word that spans this case and forced abduction rape at point to death with a knife over many hours

for example

[Livia]

Rape means being penetrated by a penis against your will. Other charges are add ons.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Rape means being penetrated by a penis against your will. Other charges are add ons.

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

[Niamh.]

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

Clearly that didn't happen in this case though........

[Crimson Dynamo]

Clearly that didn't happen in this case though........

no but am i right in saying that the girl got so paralytic she passed out outside?


(not that i think this is an invite etc)

[Niamh.]

no but am i right in saying that the girl got so paralytic she passed out outside?


(not that i think this is an invite etc)

What are you saying then? Yes she got far too drunk, that doesn't mean the guy didn't commit a violent and predatory crime against her

[Tom4784]

What a ridiculous sentence, the judge should definitely be investigated since six months for rape is completely insane.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What are you saying then? Yes she got far too drunk, that doesn't mean the guy didn't commit a violent and predatory crime against her

No its a lesson to all young girls about the dangers of strong drink

[Niamh.]

No its a lesson to all young girls about the dangers of strong drink

Getting raped is a lesson? :/

[Tom4784]

It's quite simple, if you don't have consent or the person is incapable of giving consent then it's a crime. It's not her fault for having a drink, it's his fault for choosing to take advantage and rape her.

The lesson here is simple, don't rape people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Getting raped is a lesson? :/

yes its one of the dangers, as is asphyxiating

But a woman has to be extra careful

[Niamh.]

yes its one of the dangers, as is asphyxiating

But a woman has to be extra careful

sounds like victim blaming to me

[Livia]

what about when you wake up and decide that whilst you did last night you dont this morning?

Then it's a much more difficult case to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That's not what happened here though. Is it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

sounds like victim blaming to me

No its the reality of life

get paralytic outdoors on your own and bad things can and will happen

[Shaun]

If anything the supposed grey area of consent under the influence of alcohol should be a warning against anyone trying to take advantage of drunk girls/men, not an excuse for what turned out to be rape to have just been "well I didn't know she didn't want it!"

[Niamh.]

No its the reality of life

get paralytic outdoors on your own and bad things can and will happen

So the guy wasn't responsible for raping her then, she was responsible for giving him the opportunity? I don't get what you're saying here at all, are you saying he deserved the lighter sentence because she was drunk?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So the guy wasn't responsible for raping her then, she was responsible for giving him the opportunity? I don't get what you're saying here at all, are you saying he deserved the lighter sentence because she was drunk?

I am saying neither

[Niamh.]

I am saying neither

what are you saying then?

[Livia]

Women have to be more responsible about drinking and putting themselves in harms way. That said, you're not allowed to beat or murder someone when they're drunk so I don't see why it should be okay to rape them.

[Shaun]

That said, you're not allowed to beat or murder someone when they're drunk

you haven't met Lucas

[Northern Monkey]

No its the reality of life

get paralytic outdoors on your own and bad things can and will happen

I get your point.We should all take personal responsibility for our own safety.
However that does'nt diminish the responsibility of the person who committed the crime.They have a responsibility to not commit crimes too.
So really the responsibility lies with both parties realistically.In a perfect world we would be able to get as pissed as we like or let our kids play out unsupervised without worry of devastating things happening.Unfortunately it's not a perfect world.
So in short it is stupid to get so pissed you end up unconscious but that doesn't take away any responsibility from the rapist who should face the full wrath of the law.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I made my (now deleted and infracted) Mccann comment not to troll but to make a comparison

2 situations that needed a perp for them to go very wrong

Both situations that were dangerous

1. leaving small children unattended and out of earshot
2. getting so drunk you pas out outside


Bur both situations that 9999/10000 or more happen all over the world and nowt happens

But introduce a perp and it goes very wrong

Both cases do not excuse the perp or the fact the danger was created

I see a parallel and i think its valid, hence why I made it, and not to troll..

[Livia]

you haven't met Lucas

Dark. He sounds like my kind of guy...

[Niamh.]

I made my (now deleted and infracted) Mccann comment not to troll but to make a comparison

2 situations that needed a perp for them to go very wrong

Both situations that were dangerous

1. leaving small children unattended and out of earshot
2. getting so drunk you pas out outside


Bur both situations that 9999/10000 or more happen all over the world and nowt happens

But introduce a perp and it goes very wrong

Both cases do not excuse the perp or the fact the danger was created

I see a parallel and i think its valid, hence why I made it, and not to troll..

Neglecting your children is, in itself against the law though............getting drunk is not, that's the huge difference

[Livia]

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Neglecting your children is, in itself against the law though............getting drunk is not, that's the huge difference

what the maccans did was not breaking the law or neglect in their eyes, that is just a matter of opinion

[Niamh.]

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

Absolutely but the point you made earlier is very relevant too, men drinking too much also can put themselves into vulnerable positions and may end up robbed or beaten up or even raped too but you rarely here anyone trying to apportion any of the blame on victims in those cases

[Niamh.]

what the maccans did was not breaking the law or neglect in their eyes, that is just a matter of opinion

They actually were, in fact the Portuguese police have said that they would have been arrested for neglect had they been Portuguese, the only reason they weren't is because they thought it was normal practice in Britain to leave your babies alone.which I'm sure is not the case for any decent parent. Anyway how you can compare abandoning your babies to someone getting too drunk is bizarre imo

[Niamh.]

and lets not turn this thread into another McCann one, we already have a few of those floating around and we always end up in circles

[Kizzy]

No its a lesson to all young girls about the dangers of strong drink

It really isn't, that's offloading responsibility for someone elses actions onto an innocent.

[Kizzy]

Absolutely but the point you made earlier is very relevant too, men drinking too much also can put themselves into vulnerable positions and may end up robbed or beaten up or even raped too but you rarely here anyone trying to apportion any of the blame on victims in those cases

Great point, just women I guess that are accused of making life easy for abusers :sigh:

[Livia]

Women generally are more vulnerable to attack than men, the statistics show that. And while men are robbed and raped, it's usually women and in a lot of cases, had the woman taken more care of her own personal safety, ie, not been drunk and incapable, it might have turned out differently. Rape is a dreadful, disgusting crime and there are some horrible people in the world... so look after yourself and if you MUST get paralytic, make sure you're with some trustworthy mates.

[kirklancaster]

and lets not turn this thread into another McCann one, we already have a few of those floating around and we always end up in circles

:laugh::clap1::clap1::clap1: So true Niamh - those old twin Tibb pillars of Deja Vu and Futility. :hee:

[Kizzy]

Women generally are more vulnerable to attack than men, the statistics show that. And while men are robbed and raped, it's usually women and in a lot of cases, had the woman taken more care of her own personal safety, ie, not been drunk and incapable, it might have turned out differently. Rape is a dreadful, disgusting crime and there are some horrible people in the world... so look after yourself and if you MUST get paralytic, make sure you're with some trustworthy mates.

What do you suggest? Chaperones.. 2 drink maximum.. anti spiking spray ( not sure if exists) .. chastity belts..tasers..burqas?

[Wizard.]

So now it's come out that he may only serve 3/6 months AND he's been placed into a protection unit of the prison incase prisoners attack or rape him. But where was the girls protection?

[user104658]

What do you suggest? Chaperones.. 2 drink maximum.. anti spiking spray ( not sure if exists) .. chastity belts..tasers..burqas?
I'd suggest not walking around alone at night especially when drunk - however, that's good advice for anyone, especially young / Uni age people. Lone young men are actually more likely to be "opportunity" mugged for things like wallets and smartphones than girls. There are plenty of rough guys around, not actually specifically out to rob people, who will chance their luck at grabbing an iPhone from a lone teenage lad but would find it unthinkable to attack a female.

I think there's a tendency to have the snap judgement of "oh no victim blaming!" when suggesting that people can do things to minimise risk... But it's really not that at all. It's not about saying it's anyone's fault, or that any attacker isn't abhorrent scum... It's just about accepting that these people DO exist, there ARE risks on a night out, and there simply always will be.

[Kizzy]

I'd suggest not walking around alone at night especially when drunk - however, that's good advice for anyone, especially young / Uni age people. Lone young men are actually more likely to be "opportunity" mugged for things like wallets and smartphones than girls. There are plenty of rough guys around, not actually specifically out to rob people, who will chance their luck at grabbing an iPhone from a lone teenage lad but would find it unthinkable to attack a female.

I think there's a tendency to have the snap judgement of "oh no victim blaming!" when suggesting that people can do things to minimise risk... But it's really not that at all. It's not about saying it's anyone's fault, or that any attacker isn't abhorrent scum... It's just about accepting that these people DO exist, there ARE risks on a night out, and there simply always will be.

There appears to be the presumption that all victims are wandering around waiting to be raped...
Heard of a roofie?
Read all the leading questions asked of the victim in her letter? No let's not make snap judgements.

[Ninastar]

While I fully back Niamh on this... I also believe some women put themselves into vulnerable positions by allowing themselves to get so drunk they can't defend themselves. You have to take responsibility for your own safety. That doesn't mean it's okay to rape a drunk woman, it means that there are men out there who would take advantage of you and you need to guard against it.

Totally agree, as per ;)

[user104658]

There appears to be the presumption that all victims are wandering around waiting to be raped...
Heard of a roofie?
Read all the leading questions asked of the victim in her letter? No let's not make snap judgements.
No one is saying it would never happen, it's not about making snap judgements either, it's not about judgement at all... It's about taking precautions to reduce risk. Same as safety features in cars... Power steering, ABS, etc... They reduce the risk of anything bad happening, but bad things will still happen despite that. That doesn't mean you should just remove all of those safety features.

E.g. With being drugged - it's much less likely to end badly if people stay with friends and look out for each other. Not impossible, people lose track of each other, people are attacked by those who were the very ones they were trusting, etc, but it still makes it less likely and so is still good advice. No blaming, no judgement, just an effort for everyone to be safer.

[Kizzy]

No one is saying it would never happen, it's not about making snap judgements either, it's not about judgement at all... It's about taking precautions to reduce risk. Same as safety features in cars... Power steering, ABS, etc... They reduce the risk of anything bad happening, but bad things will still happen despite that. That doesn't mean you should just remove all of those safety features.

E.g. With being drugged - it's much less likely to end badly if people stay with friends and look out for each other. Not impossible, people lose track of each other, people are attacked by those who were the very ones they were trusting, etc, but it still makes it less likely and so is still good advice. No blaming, no judgement, just an effort for everyone to be safer.

Right so using your car analogy if you are driving a car without ABS or power steering and someone deliberately drives their car repeatedly into your cars back end is it your fault?

[user104658]

Right so using your car analogy if you are driving a car without ABS or power steering and someone deliberately drives their car repeatedly into your cars back end is it your fault?
No but I've repeatedly and specifically said it's not about fault or blame, it's about minimising risk. In a perfect world there wouldn't be scumbags out to attack or take advantage of vulnerable people. Sadly, as you know, we don't live in a perfect world... We live in a ****ty one where these people exist, and are always going to exist. When they prey on someone, they are the only person at fault. They are the only person to blame. But what does that really matter to the victim when it's already happened?

One of the main reasons for having safety features on a car is because there are idiots on the road, and it doesn't matter how safe YOU are, if YOU do everything right... Someone else's actions can end in disaster, through no fault of your own.

You are less likely to be sexually assaulted if you go out in a group, and everyone watches out for each other and makes sure no one gets left behind. Can it still happen? Yes. But it's far less likely. Is it right or fair that people have to stick together in groups to be safe? Nope! It's crappy. To reiterate: the world is ****.

[GiRTh]

Stanford rape case judge removed from new sexual assault case (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/judge-aaron-persky-district-attorney-confidence/)

Not sure about this. Agree the judges sentencing was way to lenient but to recuse judges because of cases they have already tried could be bit of a slippery slope.

[Vicky.]

He got off with a pitiful sentence to start with. But the arrogant twat is apparently appealing even that

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brock-turner-ex-stanford-swimmer-appeals-sexual-assault-conviction-2017-12
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brock-turner-swimmer-olympic-hopeful-sexual-assault-stanford-university-woman-unconscious-a8090006.html

Doesn't want to be on the sex offenders register. Boo ****ing hoo.

This appeal could mean a decent sentence is finally given. So lets hope eh...

[Vicky.]

Could really do without seeing his smug face all over my ****ing facebook feed again.

This case angers me so much. I almost feel irrational when discussing it. That poor girl. And now hes still ****ing at it as god forbid there are any lasting consequences for him. I genuinely hope he gets the retrial like he wants, and gets a decent judge this time who gives him the sentence he deserved in the first place.

[smudgie]

Could really do without seeing his smug face all over my ****ing facebook feed again.

This case angers me so much. I almost feel irrational when discussing it. That poor girl. And now hes still ****ing at it as god forbid there are any lasting consequences for him. I genuinely hope he gets the retrial like he wants, and gets a decent judge this time who gives him the sentence he deserved in the first place.

I second that.:fist:

[lewis111]

I could in no way ever have any sort of respect for tbis creature
But I would despise it a little less if he just held his hands up and said "sorry I made an awful mistake" and took that already extremely short sentence he was beyond lucky to be given

But he's constantly trying to make out like he's a victim in this and appealing his case despite what he was given is just infuriating
He clearly has zero respect at all for th girl or her family - not that id expect him to though

[Withano]

Jfc. What is he even thinking. Kinda difficult to believe he's 100% in the head.

[Kizzy]

Let's hope the jury isn't full of '**** happens' people :/