Racism on the rise in the UK following EU Referendum

[starry]

If people had been allowed to voice their concerns about immigration before, without everyone to the left of centre accusing them of racism and xenophobia, maybe the picture would have been different. The danger with ignoring people's concerns is that those concerns grow into problems.

And really, I'm tired of the suggestion that we are a ridiculously racist country when we are not. I hope this is a lesson learned. You have to listen to people because if you keep them down by calling them names, it just blows the situation out of all proportion.

I think some people just want more control of their own country rather than just some unelected German and French EU commissioners threatening us from abroad.

The fact is this country is split and has been for some time. The electoral system ignores that and disenfranchises people, but a referendum actually gives people a voice.

I think there is a great deal of scaremongering and some people seem to want things to go bad just because things didn't go their way. The way to address things properly is to listen to people, treat everyone with respect whether they are on the same side or not, and move forward. But with the dictatorial way the country has been run getting governing politicians to accept a more consensus approach won't be easy.

[user104658]

The fact is this country is split and has been for some time. The electoral system ignores that and disenfranchises people, but a referendum actually gives people a voice.


Had it been a resounding voice, sure, as it is though all it really did is confirm that the country is indeed split pretty much 50-50. Half of the country still living in a world that they didn't want or vote for. How is that any different to the electoral system?

[joeysteele]

Really good post starry and I agree with it all, especially as to our electoral system, which I now see as heightening divisions and not healing them, causing actually now more disconnect with voters and politics rather than drawing them in..

There are consensus Politicians in all parties, however I have to strongly say this,it is equally wrong, in my view for anyone to accuse 'everyone on the left',of whom I am one and a great majority of decent people are, of jumping on a racism bandwagon.
Grossly offensive.

Generalised and meant irrational prejudice against the right or left of politics, is as divisive and wrong in my view as are the worse kind of prejudices of racism and xenophobia.

[starry]

You could say the same if it was the other way. Of course it gives more separatist people a chance to come forward, same with the Scottish referendum. But if these issues had been addressed better, and Cameron got nothing when he went to negotiate before the vote, then this would likely not have happened. If politicians just ignore people's opinions, or scaremonger to try and shut them up then it's not going to work out well for anyone. You wouldn't really need referendums to decide things if politicians did their job properly and listened.

[Kizzy]

The shopkeeper of a Polish store near me was found unconscious covered in blood this morning.

What has been unleashed in the UK?... :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

The shopkeeper of a Polish store near me was found unconscious covered in blood this morning.

What has been unleashed in the UK?... :(

why is it related to this thread?

[Kizzy]

why is it related to this thread?

It was a racially motivated attack, and yes there were witnesses who can attest it was.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was a racially motivated attack, and yes there were witnesses who can attest it was.

and they mentioned the referendum?


do you have a news link?

[Kizzy]

and they mentioned the referendum?


do you have a news link?

It is a racially motivated attack following the referendum, which is the reason this thread was created isn't it?

Have a look on the West Yorkshire Police website if you want details.

[user104658]

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

[Tom4784]

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

It's only going to get worse, these people have think they've won and that their actions are now perfectly acceptable and they're only going to get louder and more violent because times are going to get harder and anyone that doesn't fit the mould will bare the brunt of the blame even though it's squarely down to Brexit for ****ing everything up.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Two incidents I heard about directly, today, from the source:

1) A friend of my wife lives in London, her mother is Greek and recently moved over here after her husband died, to live near her daughter and grandchild. Yesterday they were on the bus in the center of London - with her 6-year-old granddaughter I have to add - and a man went on an aggressive 10 minute long rant at her about how "the nation has voted and she needs to **** off back home" after he heard her accent. The bus was packed. Not one person said a word to help.

2) This one absolutely stunned me TBH. A Canadian guy we know - who is actually British - British parents born and raised, he was born in Canada and lived there until his teens (now in his 20's) and he still has a Canadian accent. He was out doing his shopping, was heading back to his car, someone behind him shouted "Go back to America we don't want you here" and when he turned around they punched him square in the jaw.


I'll also point out that I don't actually know that many people from outside the UK (most of my non-UK University friends "went home" happily after Uni) so it's not like I'm drawing from a huge sample size here. These are not isolated incidents, and they are not coincidences. England currently has a MAJOR problem with hate crime. The vote hasn't "changed anyone" of course and this isn't the majority of Leave voters or anything like that - bot those who DO hold these opinions are currently feeling bolstered and driven by an idea that "the country is behind them".

Oh and apparently it extends to Canadians and Americans, too?? It seems like anyone who doesn't have an English accent is fair game right now. To be honest, I don't imagine it's much fun having a Scottish or Irish accent and living in England right now, either.

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's only going to get worse, these people have think they've won and that their actions are now perfectly acceptable and they're only going to get louder and more violent because times are going to get harder and anyone that doesn't fit the mould will bare the brunt of the blame even though it's squarely down to Brexit for ****ing everything up.

Dezzy's crystal ball must have got another polish

[user104658]

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?
To deny that it's not because of the referendum result is ridiculous to the point of delusion, LT. In the first case the man did specifically mention the vote. In the second we're talking about a guy who has lived here most of his life suddenly being attacked for having a Canadian accent.

As I said I don't even know many non-UK-native people personally and of the very small number I do know, two, who have never even felt uncomfortable in the country having been here YEARS or even over a decade, have been outright attacked less than a week after the referendum?

There's a limit to what you can realistically call coincidence LT, without it simply becoming a farce.

[Crimson Dynamo]

as far as i saw the man on the bus was a drunk mentalist as for the second incident you are attributing it with zero evidence. random attacks happen every day in the UK.

Like this one in May

Horrific moment convicted Polish rapist BEATS stranger after being in Britain for TWO DAYS

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/671696/Horrific-moment-convicted-Polish-rapist-BEATS-stranger-after-being-in-Britain-for-TWO-DAYS

[Tom4784]

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

Be careful, you'll get sand in your mouth.

[user104658]

as far as i saw the man on the bus was a drunk mentalist as for the second incident you are attributing it with zero evidence. random attacks happen every day in the UK.

Like this one in May

Horrific moment convicted Polish rapist BEATS stranger after being in Britain for TWO DAYS

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/671696/Horrific-moment-convicted-Polish-rapist-BEATS-stranger-after-being-in-Britain-for-TWO-DAYS
"Random" attacks happened to TWO non-UK nationals who I know personally within less than a week of the referendum, both with "get out of our country" messages, despite neither of them having ever been attacked before.

You're living in a dangerously blinkered fantasy, that's all I can say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Random" attacks happened to TWO non-UK nationals who I know personally within less than a week of the referendum, both with "get out of our country" messages, despite neither of them having ever been attacked before.

You're living in a dangerously blinkered fantasy, that's all I can say.

i would imagine there were more violent attacks following Englands defeat to Iceland tbh - imo

[Alf]

We have laws to deal with these people.

Stop flaming the fires.

[user104658]

i would imagine there were more violent attacks following Englands defeat to Iceland tbh - imo
I can see that this is another "Kate McCann" situation for you LT, meaning that there's not really much point discussing it.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Poor Trish Adudu :( Some racist had a field day calling someone a Pak-- then turning to BBc news reporter "n----- go home " :(

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/749073437713272833

Racist bastards you need the diversity. How often do you bloody spend abroad cause you can't bear your own country for more than a few working months. Those that have money make the choice to not even stay here.

[Ammi]

Poor Trish Adudu :( Some racist had a field day calling someone a Pak-- then turning to BBc news reporter "n----- go home " :(

https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/749073437713272833

Racist bastards you need the diversity. How often do you bloody spend abroad cause you can't bear your own country for more than a few working months. Those that have money make the choice to not even stay here.

..yeah I read that a few days after the referendum vote outcome, CeeCee...mind you, sadly I don't think it's because of the outcome as such because I think that it would have been the same with a small percentage Remain win...it's that delusion that there are 'many voices' in the prejudice that is felt by a few....it's now making those voices realise that they are isolated in their racial prejudice...

[kirklancaster]

Dezzy's crystal ball must have got another polish

Is this a 'pun' LT? :hee:

[arista]

..yeah I read that a few days after the referendum vote outcome, CeeCee...mind you, sadly I don't think it's because of the outcome as such because I think that it would have been the same with a small percentage Remain win...it's that delusion that there are 'many voices' in the prejudice that is felt by a few....it's now making those voices realise that they are isolated in their racial prejudice...


I do not mind the Public On TV.

But other Day Jamelia, on LWHD (itv)
took over the start of the show
but could not confirm who it was
who was rude to her?
No photo - No Confirmation
of his uniform?
The Police are helping her
LWHD told us.


That was not in the Papers , much
so some things become Promo's

[Tom4784]

The Police have revealed that the rate of reported hate crime is five times higher than it was before the referendum with a police chief suspecting that the number would be significantly higher if you countered unreported issues since it's not a crime that gets reported a lot.

I'm sure this increase in racist incidents that began just after the referendum has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the Referendum....

[billy123]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

[DemolitionRed]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

Now that was refreshing ty :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

:worship::worship::worship: WOW - He absolutely NAILS it. "The working Classes made the difference" :clap1::clap1::clap1: One in the eye for the pro-EU 'Labour Party' and their false 'socialism', AND for all the deluded Labour supporters who 'toed the party line' and voted 'Remain' thinking that the Federalist anti-democratic, elitist, EU did not PREY on the working classes and most vulnerable, steal their money, and divert into the already swollen coffers of the corporations and top 10% elite.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

:clap1:

[Mystic Mock]

why is this relevant to the referendum?

or is every racist attack now attributed to the referendum because it makes remainers feel better?

Hate crime should make nobody feel better.

Of course it can't be factually attached to the Referendum as hate crimes happen in this country every single day, but it's convenient that it seems to be in bigger numbers after the Referendum result than it was before the Referendum result.

In fact I miss the days when the verbal abuse on the Train was the biggest deal of racism in the country.:joker:

[_Tom_]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

Love that :clap1:

[joeysteele]

Hate crime should make nobody feel better.

Of course it can't be factually attached to the Referendum as hate crimes happen in this country every single day, but it's convenient that it seems to be in bigger numbers after the Referendum result than it was before the Referendum result.

In fact I miss the days when the verbal abuse on the Train was the biggest deal of racism in the country.:joker:

Even Police forces have said it is on the rise considerably since the referendum campaign and result Mock.

However the Police are likely lying too, anyone is that finds fault with the campaign with this result.

They seem to forget an MP was brutally murdered for her views on immigration and supporting refugees, when did that last happen for that reason, in the UK for goodness sake.
Another MP is standing down because during the campaign and afterwards she is getting death threats.

It will be nothing at all to do with that vile campaigning and posters and the tone as to immigration though but in my view it for sure is..

[Jack_]

This sums it up pretty well for me.

(Some bad Language so if you are a sensitive flower dont ****ing watch it)

WcXf1Fz5Fw4

One of his best this

[DemolitionRed]

It will be nothing at all to do with that vile campaigning and posters and the tone as to immigration though but in my view it for sure is..

American Jimmy Dore gets it right czE7dkSSFB0&feature=youtu.be
https://

Quote: “the driving force (behind support for Brexit, and Trump) is economic insecurity and economic insecurity makes people vulnerable to racist demagogues”

[user104658]

:worship::worship::worship: WOW - He absolutely NAILS it.

:clap1:

Love that :clap1:
Guys you do understand that he's saying what I've been saying all week, right? That the austerity+capitalism focused far right Tories have duped a gullible and disenfranchised working class into voting out of the EU, and in doing so, those very people have placed themselves at the mercy of undiluted, full on Tory austerity and cruelty?

Yes he's saying to stop the petty squabbling... But he's saying "Stop it, you're going to need your strength, because you have left yourself at the mercy of the worst and least caring politicians this country has to offer".

You're all clapping an absolutely massive anti-Brexit rant... And not just that... A doomsday rant. You know. The sort of thing you've been laughing at all week?

Very confused.

[DemolitionRed]

Guys you do understand that he's saying what I've been saying all week, right? That the austerity+capitalism focused far right Tories have duped a gullible and disenfranchised working class into voting out of the EU, and in doing so, those very people have placed themselves at the mercy of undiluted, full on Tory austerity and cruelty?

Yes he's saying to stop the petty squabbling... But he's saying "Stop it, you're going to need your strength, because you have left yourself at the mercy of the worst and least caring politicians this country has to offer".

You're all clapping an absolutely massive anti-Brexit rant... And not just that... A doomsday rant. You know. The sort of thing you've been laughing at all week?

Very confused.

He clearly was a remainer but that wasn't the point of his video.

quote "Yes, there were thousands of horrible racist, bigoted stupid twats in this countr but to accuse 17.5 million people outright of bigotry and stupidity. If you do that you shut the argument down; if you refuse to engage in argument you will lose the argument. This anger and blame is being misdirected"

quote "Its time to stop moping about, stop signing meaningless petitions and stop hurling insults"

quote "Why are old people allowed to vote?
Why are people who live outside London allowed to vote?
why are white men who read the Daily Mail allowed to vote"
Because that's democracy and if you don't like it then fcuk off and go and live in North Korea"

[kirklancaster]

He clearly was a remainer but that wasn't the point of his video.

quote "Yes, there were thousands of horrible racist, bigoted stupid twats in this countr but to accuse 17.5 million people outright of bigotry and stupidity. If you do that you shut the argument down; if you refuse to engage in argument you will lose the argument. This anger and blame is being misdirected"

quote "Its time to stop moping about, stop signing meaningless petitions and stop hurling insults"

quote "Why are old people allowed to vote?
Why are people who live outside London allowed to vote?
why are white men who read the Daily Mail allowed to vote"
Because that's democracy and if you don't like it then fcuk off and go and live in North Korea"

EXACTLY.

[user104658]

Except that no one has ever realistically accused all 17 million leave voters of being racists, and I haven't seen anyone actually suggest that subsections of society should be banned from voting either.

This applause seems very cherry picked. When he says that people need to stop moaning and petitioning etc. he's certainly not saying the same thing that most people are (which is essentially "put up and shut up that's Democracy")... He's saying wake up and change your focus, Britain has been DAMAGED by this vote, and if people don't rally themselves now they're going to be blind-sided by some of the worst politicians, potentially one of the worst governments, that this country has known in modern times. I'm amazed that people are managing to skim over this, pick out and applaud the minor parts of what he's saying that they happen to like ("yay! He's telling them to quit whining!") whilst somehow completely overlooking the bulk of his reasoning and argument.

I agree with everything he says; the only difference being that I don't see much point in wasting time and energy "rallying our strength" now because the sh*t-train we're on can't be stopped, slowed down or redirected. We're on it to the end of the line now. Choo choo!

[Ammi]

Except that no one has ever realistically accused all 17 million leave voters of being racists, and I haven't seen anyone actually suggest that subsections of society should be banned from voting either.

This applause seems very cherry picked. When he says that people need to stop moaning and petitioning etc. he's certainly not saying the same thing that most people are (which is essentially "put up and shut up that's Democracy")... He's saying wake up and change your focus, Britain has been DAMAGED by this vote, and if people don't rally themselves now they're going to be blind-sided by some of the worst politicians, potentially one of the worst governments, that this country has known in modern times. I'm amazed that people are managing to skim over this, pick out and applaud the minor parts of what he's saying that they happen to like ("yay! He's telling them to quit whining!") whilst somehow completely overlooking the bulk of his reasoning and argument.

I agree with everything he says; the only difference being that I don't see much point in wasting time and energy "rallying our strength" now because the sh*t-train we're on can't be stopped, slowed down or redirected. We're on it to the end of the line now. Choo choo!

..yeah, it's a 'be careful what you wish for' type thing really in saying that there are not going to be any 'winners' here that he can see../which is a vein of thought of many, I think...the only thing that I could add really to what you've said is that ..(and I agree with him that it only 'shuts down' these feelings of racial prejudice etc..)... then he's more or less advocating in 'shutting down', himself of almost half the population and their heightened fears and emotions right now...you can't really get much more shutting down than put up or shut up, tbh....

[DemolitionRed]

Except that no one has ever realistically accused all 17 million leave voters of being racists, and I haven't seen anyone actually suggest that subsections of society should be banned from voting either.

This applause seems very cherry picked. When he says that people need to stop moaning and petitioning etc. he's certainly not saying the same thing that most people are (which is essentially "put up and shut up that's Democracy")... He's saying wake up and change your focus, Britain has been DAMAGED by this vote, and if people don't rally themselves now they're going to be blind-sided by some of the worst politicians, potentially one of the worst governments, that this country has known in modern times. I'm amazed that people are managing to skim over this, pick out and applaud the minor parts of what he's saying that they happen to like ("yay! He's telling them to quit whining!") whilst somehow completely overlooking the bulk of his reasoning and argument.

I agree with everything he says; the only difference being that I don't see much point in wasting time and energy "rallying our strength" now because the sh*t-train we're on can't be stopped, slowed down or redirected. We're on it to the end of the line now. Choo choo!

What he was saying is, although he didn’t vote brexit, he understands why people did.
One of his quotes… “The remain argument was, “stay as we are OR risk uncertainty” If you’ve got nothing, why would you vote to stay as you are? At least with uncertainty there’s some hope that things might change. If I was in that position I would take uncertainty over nothing and why have they got nothing? Because austerity has systematically taken from the poorest in this country until they’ve got nothing left.”

He understands both sides and I think a lot of us understand both sides. He’s also saying, in a very frustrated way, lets march forward with what we’ve got because if we don’t, the Tory’s are going to take advantage of this and I agree.

[arista]

The Poor Voted Out of EU

Thats is there Fecking Right



There are some Criminals - that need to be arrested
as they break our RACE LAWS

[user104658]

He specifically states that people he believes exploited that uncertainty and people's vulnerability to their own dishonest ends. He's very clear that he thinks people were wrong to think that this will make things better, and that they have doomed themselves to ever-harsher austerity under even worse people.

So far he is 100% correct, just look at the monsters looming on the hill now.

[DemolitionRed]

He specifically states that people he believes exploited that uncertainty and people's vulnerability to their own dishonest ends. He's very clear that he thinks people were wrong to think that this will make things better, and that they have doomed themselves to ever-harsher austerity under even worse people.

So far he is 100% correct, just look at the monsters looming on the hill now.

Nobody is disputing that but he’s also saying, lets stop this divide. Its a message to all of us, not just the remain voters.

[user104658]

Nobody is disputing that but he’s also saying, lets stop this divide. Its a message to all of us, not just the remain voters.
True, and then we can usher in a new era of fairness and social justice.

... Can anyone even say it with a straight face?

[Ammi]

..it's a message that's very ill-timed though and when he talks or fake rants about 'engaging people', then it's the timing of that engagement as well that's extremely relevant..it's the right 'listening time' also and actually probably the most important thing with 'messages'...yes, we don't have any chance of moving forward into anything that could possible bring any types of positive unless we move forward together.../a nation divided is the worst possible part of this outcome/how close the vote was....but it's essentially like a period of mourning of a separation atm..our 'marriage' to the EU as it's been described...and that has many things that many people need to feel and not be 'shut down' from feeling atm, these are the natural processes that are needed to enable any 'moving on' to be a possibility at all.... 'putting up and shutting up' as he's advocating basically, will only delay the process, not accelerate it....

[Tom4784]

As ever, TS is completely right.

It's funny that people are applauding that video when it's basically condemning them for choosing to leave.

[DemolitionRed]

As ever, TS is completely right.

It's funny that people are applauding that video when it's basically condemning them for choosing to leave.

That’s what you choose to see Dezzy, its not what I see.

Ammi has got this right. He said all the right things but possibly at the wrong time. I never thought of this as a period of mourning Ammi but you’re right.
Here’s me thinking we just need to get on with things now but perhaps I’m being too impatient.

I’ve spent the last week laying low on here because there are too many people who seem to be gleeful about the clusterfcuk going on. I didn’t expect Cameron to resign because he told his nation he wouldn’t but then went back on his word. I didn’t expect the left, who had a fantastic opportunity, would turn on Corbyn and bring the Labour party into disrepute but I did expect the stock market would fall, that we probably would be faced with QE and we would all be hitting the bunkers for a while.

I'm sick to death of people wallowing in the results and rubbing salt into wounds but I'm equally sickened by the ‘sky is falling in’ brigade who seriously want this country to fall apart. Frankly, this forum group has become trapped in a tit for tat war of words. Its a shame but it is what it is and so for the time being I'll be opting out of any further discussions on here re-brexit.

[Cherie]

That’s what you choose to see Dezzy, its not what I see.

Ammi has got this right. He said all the right things but possibly at the wrong time. I never thought of this as a period of mourning Ammi but you’re right.
Here’s me thinking we just need to get on with things now but perhaps I’m being too impatient.

I’ve spent the last week laying low on here because there are too many people who seem to be gleeful about the clusterfcuk going on. I didn’t expect Cameron to resign because he told his nation he wouldn’t but then went back on his word. I didn’t expect the left, who had a fantastic opportunity, would turn on Corbyn and bring the Labour party into disrepute but I did expect the stock market would fall, that we probably would be faced with QE and we would all be hitting the bunkers for a while.

I'm sick to death of people wallowing in the results and rubbing salt into wounds but I'm equally sickened by the ‘sky is falling in’ brigade who seriously want this country to fall apart. Frankly, this forum group has become trapped in a tit for tat war of words. Its a shame but it is what it is and so for the time being I'll be opting out of any further discussions on here re-brexit.


Of course that is your choice! I haven't told anyone what to post or what not to post and I am sick and tired of being told that I shouldn't speak about anything negative that has happened or might happen, I'm pretty sure no one wants the UK to fail, as it impacts on our lives so much, I would love for some one to come on here and reassure me that everything is going to be okay and back it up with some facts, the truth is we are going to live with uncertainty for at least the next two years

[arista]

"I am sick and tired of being told that I shouldn't speak about anything negative that has happened or might happen"

Yes You tell them Lady
I am glad you post on SD
you are a Star

[_Tom_]

As ever, TS is completely right.

It's funny that people are applauding that video when it's basically condemning them for choosing to leave.

Except he isn't condemning the voters - his very line is "if the voters vote the "wrong way" that's the politicians' fault and yet people are throwing insults at the voters" - he's condemning the politicians for not being engaging with their argument.

[Jack_]

Except he isn't condemning the voters - his very line is "if the voters vote the "wrong way" that's the politicians' fault and yet people are throwing insults at the voters" - he's condemning the politicians for not being engaging with their argument.

And he also said 'the people that tipped the balance were the working classes because they were preyed upon by people who used misinformation and the politics of fear and they bought it', which is true.

So you agree the Vote Leave campaign engaged in the politics of fear? I too am baffled as to why you're all in support of this video

[user104658]

Except he isn't condemning the voters - his very line is "if the voters vote the "wrong way" that's the politicians' fault and yet people are throwing insults at the voters" - he's condemning the politicians for not being engaging with their argument.
No he is condemning the politicians for not being engaging in general - for leaving the voting public feeling unheard and disenfranchised. Which left them vulnerable to disingenuous opportunists (Farage et al) who told them what they wanted to hear about "change" in order to fulfil their own goals, and then promptly took it all back.

At the heart of it though, he's essentially saying that "the masses" are easily duped. I've been saying that frequently since last summer on here but no one's applauded me fore it :shrug:. In fact I'm frequently told that I don't give the dumb ****ers "enough credit".

[Livia]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

[joeysteele]

Well for me and it is likely true on both sides. I don't think everyone that voted thought about their vote and really what it was they were voting for.

I have got angry at and am at more and more people who are Labour supporters who voted to leave, in order to get rid of David Cameron, believing that would get a general election and maybe put Labour in.
Unbelievable.

Then I have come across lot of people who voted leave,believing it would make the EU come back with a better deal.
They say Boris Johnson inferred that, I keep saying he didn't.

Then worst of all, people who really believed voting leave,would see all immigrants out of the Country within weeks.

The politicians should have been out of this campaign, all people needed was facts and pros and cons as to both sides, nothing else.
While accepting the result, never will I accept all who voted really knew or that a minority of them even cared what they were voting about.

[Liberty4eva]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif

[Cherie]

"I am sick and tired of being told that I shouldn't speak about anything negative that has happened or might happen"

Yes You tell them Lady
I am glad you post on SD
you are a Star

Right back at you honey

[jaxie]

Well for me and it is likely true on both sides. I don;t think everyone thought about their vote and really what it was they were voting for.

I have got angry at and am at more and more people who are Labour supporters who voted to leave, in order to get rid of David Cameron, believing that would get a general election and maybe put Labour in.
Unbelievable.

Then I have come across lot of people who voted leave,believing it would make the EU come back with a better deal.
They say Boris Johnson inferred that, I keep saying he didn't.

Then worst of all, people who really believed voting leave,would see all immigrants out of the Country within weeks.

The politicians should have been out of this campaign, all people needed was facts and pros and cons as to both sides, nothing else.
While accepting the result, never will I accept all who voted really knew or that a minority of them even cared what they were voting about.

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

[jaxie]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

:clap2:

[kirklancaster]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

:worship::worship::worship:Liv - crystallising the thoughts of many, and vocalising them, where many dare not. This whole fecking cacophany of whinging, whining, and sniping following Brexit is tiresome and wholly irrational.

[Johnnyuk123]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Arise Livia the Dragon Slayer. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

http://www.lovethisgif.com/uploaded_images/17839-By-The-Time-The-Dragon-Slayer-Arrived-Anything-Not-Already-Lit-On-....gif

[joeysteele]

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

If you had bothered to read my post properly you would have seen that was the very first thing I said actually,

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Wtf these racist Brexit idiots are also targeting Spaniards?! So they want UK to be strictly British only is it? Stupid *****. Best book your future holidays in Cornwall and Brighton then to stand firm with your views.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Actually not everyone thought carefully about their votes. It's been proven some Brexit now regret their votes and didn't know all the "facts"

[the truth]

racism has been on the rise is tony bliar blew up iraq

[Livia]

Actually not everyone thought carefully about their votes. It's been proven some Brexit now regret their votes and didn't know all the "facts"

And I'm sure some remainers also had doubts.

Don't assume you're cleverer than anyone else, regardless of how they voted. And really... how tiresome are your constant "racist" comments on anyone who voted to leave.

[the truth]

i voted for brexit mainly because the eu commission is corrupt anti-democratic, unaccountable and unelected and the majority of its member nations and borderline bankrupt

[joeysteele]

There is a change for the worse as to racism and xenophobia from during the referendum campaign and post the result.
Not that it has caused it, as the people who had those prejudices would have had them anyway, although keeping them more suppressed.

However the new atmosphere from the referendum has really deteriorated things and the ugly side of such prejudices are now much more to the fore than before.

I have overheard some really horrible things,deliberately said in earshot of people from other Countries here in the UK.
I said this earlier, some people who voted leave,really sadly and stupidly in my view,believed that if the result was to leave, that all those from other Countries would be sent out of the UK within weeks.

Whatever criticisms can be made as to the remain side,and there are many,one thing for sure is no one voting for remain wanted to create that grossly ugly scenario where people who have been here for decades and see the UK as home, are made to feel not only unwelcome but fearful too, as to their future and safety.

Nobody at all who voted remain,voted for anyone to be made to feel like that or for this ugly behaviour against anyone to be brought into play ever.

[the truth]

i detest all racism but keeping things in perspective , there are different degrees of racism, stupid comments one hand , death threats violence, murder and terrorism at the worst end of the scale

[user104658]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

I don't give them ANY credit. Not the ones who voted based on bull**** reasons that have been proven false. You can claim these people don't exist all day... They do :shrug:. I didn't say that all leave voters are fick nor that all remain voters are brightsparks. People voted remain for hilarious reasons too. Like wanting to "be able to go to Disneyland Paris"... I've stated more than once that both sides of the campaign were a shambles. Few truths, all fear.

Im well aware that I'm not "cleverer than everyone else"... I am however cleverer than most people. So are you. As you well know. Is there honour in false modesty? Meh... Maybe, but I personally can't be arsed with it.

As for labouring under the belief that my stance is the right one - I've covered this multiple times on here. Of course I am?? If anyone truly believes that their stance is NOT the right one then why are they even bothering to share an opinion? This baffles me. I can freely admit that there is a possibility that I'm incorrect but of course I don't believe that I am? What sort of bull**** is that :joker:

[Mystic Mock]

No he is condemning the politicians for not being engaging in general - for leaving the voting public feeling unheard and disenfranchised. Which left them vulnerable to disingenuous opportunists (Farage et al) who told them what they wanted to hear about "change" in order to fulfil their own goals, and then promptly took it all back.

At the heart of it though, he's essentially saying that "the masses" are easily duped. I've been saying that frequently since last summer on here but no one's applauded me fore it :shrug:. In fact I'm frequently told that I don't give the dumb ****ers "enough credit".

Don't worry Toy Soldier I've been agreeing with you all along on this, and many other people have too, just because we don't all post on here on these threads doesn't mean that there isn't people agreeing with you.

I am amazed at just how many people buy the **** that The Sun and The Daily Mail sell to people, I thought that most people read those Papers just to laugh at them, not actually buying what they sell.:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I went to Fife today

I saw no racism.

So all is ok

[Mystic Mock]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Tbf a lot of people that I've listened to speak on the EU front wanted the Muslims out of the country, and wanted the NHS fixed, two things which are never going to be fixed by pulling out of the EU as the Governments in this country don't give a **** about a mass of Muslims in the country as they're easy figures to control and put more blame on for the woes in the country, and both the Tories and Labour have grown to despise the NHS as it means that the working class get free healthcare and those two parties hate having to fund anything for the working class, so being out of the EU won't change those two things.

Also a lot of people are putting it as a class war, the thing is that the working class in this country will be hindered a lot more by a financially poorer Tories than we ever was staying in the EU and letting the Tories and Labour have what they want on that front.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

[Mystic Mock]

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

Both sides have scare mongered, just saying that one over the other has done that is incredibly biased.

[Mystic Mock]

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

We all could be claimed to be doing that on this very thread so don't just throw that at me.

[Kizzy]

Aw, I get the feeling the 'brexit' voters are like Bruce Willis in sixth sense, and just don't realise they've been duped..
Actually believing it's plausible to make a conscious decision on no information, it's impossible to say there was any measurable facts within the misinformation to base any semblance of a reasoned conclusion on.

Similarly, when faced with reports of racist incidents it is only brexiters who refuse to acknowledge it's happening?

Is this real life?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

And I'm sure some remainers also had doubts.

Don't assume you're cleverer than anyone else, regardless of how they voted. And really... how tiresome are your constant "racist" comments on anyone who voted to leave.

I'm not assuming i'm cleverer than anyone else. I said ''racist Brexit idiots''. This applies to the racist Brexiters, unless you're one of the racist ones.

[Kizzy]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

[Ammi]

..my thoughts are that it's 'deteriorated' since the referendum results..(I think that Joey used that expression...and as he says, the referendum calling or results of which haven't caused any racial prejudices or xenophobia that wasn't already felt but more made them feel more comfortable with their comrades to have a voice..)...because of the 'it's all your fault/did you not think..' thing as well, adding another layer of hostility and negativity...that really is never going to have any value at all other than to detract from the problem that it is and one thing that I think both the vast majority of Brexiters and Remainers are in agreement on and come together on...is that we have to work together to quash that voice again and let it know that it isn't acceptable to any of us, no matter what our vote was...because 'accusing'../laying blame etc will only leave it to rise and rise...

[Livia]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

[Kizzy]

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

It's my opinion there is no agenda Livia, have I not been vocal about my feelings on the issue from day one?...I've been as genuine as humanly possible.

You may want to lump the forum together as to racism but I feel that suits your agenda, I agree however that there is a racist element to the forum as there is in society.

It is disingenuous to acknowledge racism towards one group but not another.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

what hate crime is this. It seems to be missing from the news

[kirklancaster]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is sunjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reportingand anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

[Kizzy]

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

[kirklancaster]

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

I agree LT - but I will wager that IF anyone actually HONESTLY and IMPARTIALLY analysed those 'reports', then PUBLISHED the results (which they won't) then we would see that a FAR reduced number of actually genuine 'Hate' crimes have been reported.

[Kizzy]

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

[kirklancaster]

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential £200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

[kirklancaster]

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

[Kizzy]

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential £200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

Hey I like google as much as the next person...but in this instance it is of no help as there is no plan...so nothing to google :(

Do I applaud a man who made it his mission to wipe trillions from the markets for his beloved Britain and go hide behind his nets in middle England?....Laughable.

[Kizzy]

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

Stats are BS now? Thanks I'll remember that for the next time you google some.

[Kizzy]

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-stats-spike-police-england-wales-eu-referendum-a7126706.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-racism-stats-spike-police-england-wales-eu-referendum-a7126706.html

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

[Kizzy]

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I would question the validity of that claim.

[kirklancaster]

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

I find it amazing and depressing how this gets reported as news and then as fact

[Livia]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

That should be the motto of this place.

[joeysteele]

The Police have said there is a rise in reported hate crimes or incidents.

Sadly there are a few who refuse to warrant that a change in tone and indeed action against others has increased since this referendum and post its result.

How serious do things have to get before people have the right to report when they are now ,feeling unsafe and fearful, in what should be a 'safe' country the UK.
Just because it doesn't sit cosily with some who are maybe also fearful that one day this referendum could end up being seen as the most inflammatory ingredient to bringing out the worst in a minority of people who are racist, xenophobic and prejudiced.

When did we last have an MP doing her job,being stabbed and shot in the street because of her support of refugees and being in favour of immigration.
A good number it is reported of women MPs have had death threats and one is standing down as an MP, because of them and massive fears for her safety.

That is those in higher public life, now try to imagine if the scum who are racist and xenophobic are not bothered about how they go about people in higher public life, what will they be like to those ordinary people from other Countries when they come across them.

Things like we voted to leave the EU and get rid of you lot.
What has happened is the cowardly filth that are racist and xenophobic, now think they have been given licence from this referendum to show more of their rotten sick prejudices.

Why more hate incidents are being reported and dealt with now is because the tone has got stronger, the threats far worse and things are far more intimidating for those on the receiving end of it.
A little understanding as to how those people feel, rather than try to justify in any way or belittle racist and xenophobic attacks,verbal or otherwise on innocent people, would not go amiss in my view.

This post will be wasted on any who may read it,on and off here, who may be hardliners or who just cannot accept, or maybe even don't want to admit, this referendum has helped bring out the worst in a prejudiced minority.
However MPs of all parties are disgusted at what they are getting told in their constituencies, from the PM downwards.

It isn't the people from other Countries in my view who should not be in the UK, it is the rotten sick racist and xenophobic of our so called own people who shouldn't be.
How anyone can even try to belittle this rise in hate incidents is totally beyond me,unbelievable.

[kirklancaster]

The Police have said there is a rise in reported hate crimes or incidents.

Sadly there are a few who refuse to warrant that a change in tone and indeed action against others has increased since this referendum and post its result.

How serious do things have to get before people have the right to repost when they are now ,feeling unsafe and fearful, in what should be a 'safe' country the UK.
Just because it doesn't sit cosily with some who are maybe also fearful that one day this referendum could end up being seen as the most inflammatory ingredient to bringing out the worst in a minority of people who are racist, xenophobic and prejudiced.

When did we last have an MP doing her job,being stabbed and shot in the street because of her support of refugees and being in favour of immigration.
A good number it is reported of women MPs have had death threats and one is standing down as an MP, because of them and massive fears for her safety.

That is those in higher public life, now try to imagine if the scum who are racist and xenophobic are not bothered about how they go about people in higher public life, what will they be like to those ordinary people from other Countries when they come across them.

Things like we voted to leave the EU and get rid of you lot.
What has happened is the cowardly filth that are racist and xenophobic, now think they have been given licence from this referendum to show more of their rotten sick prejudices.

Why more hate incidents are being reported and dealt with now is because the tone has got stronger, the threats far worse and things are far more intimidating for those on the receiving end of it.
A little understanding as to how those people feel, rather than try to justify in any way or belittle racist and xenophobic attacks,verbal or otherwise on innocent people, would not go amiss in my view.

This post will be wasted on hardliners who just cannot accept, or maybe even don't want to admit, this referendum has helped bring out the worst in a prejudiced minority.However MPs of all parties are disgusted at what they are getting told in their constituencies, from the PM downwards.

It isn't the people from other Countries in my view who should not be in the UK, it is the rotten sick racist and xenophobic of our so called own people who shouldn't be.
How anyone can even try to belittle this rise in hate incidents is totally beyond me,unbelievable.

I do not try to 'belittle' any rise in hate crime - and neither does LT from what I can see - but what we are both saying, is:

1. How many of the largely unchecked and uncheckable reports of hate crime are genuine? Because without knowing this, the figures are meaningless, and it is not 'reaching' to entertain the possibility that certain political factions may have seized this opportunity to discredit Brexit.

2. Is there any irrefutable PROOF that any rise in racism has been CAUSED by the Brexit decision? Because my logic decrees that it is far more likely that a 'Remain' decision would have triggered any racists to vent their frustration by attacking or abusing 'Foreigners'.

In any event, I find it baffling when ALL the facts and figures which I have posted showing the REAL negative data of our 42 year membership of the EU is readily dismissed as 'meaningless' but less verifiable data is held up as Gospel simply because that data dovetails with certain views.

[joeysteele]

I do not try to 'belittle' any rise in hate crime - and neither does LT from what I can see - but what we are both saying, is:

1. How many of the largely unchecked and uncheckable reports of hate crime are genuine? Because without knowing this, the figures are meaningless, and it is not 'reaching' to entertain the possibility that certain political factions may have seized this opportunity to discredit Brexit.

2. Is there any irrefutable PROOF that any rise in racism has been CAUSED by the Brexit decision? Because my logic decrees that it is far more likely that a 'Remain' decision would have triggered any racists to vent their frustration by attacking or abusing 'Foreigners'.

In any event, I find it baffling when ALL the facts and figures which I have posted showing the REAL negative data of our 42 year membership of the EU is readily dismissed as 'meaningless' but less verifiable data is held up as Gospel simply because that data dovetails with certain views.


I couldn't care how many of them are genuine or not, I do not however think people go to the Police with this lightly.
I have overheard myself some things I am disgusted with.
Also I made no reverence to anyone directly either.
What has 42 years in the EU now got to do with people becoming victims of racism, xenophobia and suffering intimidation and death threats at this time.

MPs are saying their surgeries have had people coming fearful for their future safety and being told to get out of the Country.

I again mention we had an MP stabbed to death and shot for her stand for refugees,I mentioned other MPs too, one who has had so bad as to death threats she is giving up her career in politics.

Go and talk to an MP like Anna Soubry and others, who will relay the disgusting and hateful things they have seen and heard during the referendum campaign and since.

The fact the police are getting a significant rise in the reporting of these hate incidents and that they will be investigating them leaves me to believe they take them very seriously.

How does one know when a hate threat or death threat is genuine, who knows, however if someone can be shown to have made them, then they deserve all that comes to them.

That's what should be done, or do some just want to sit back and just wait for more innocent people to be accosted, attacked, stabbed and shot as the MP was before it's said, 'oh yes, there may be something worse going on now'.