A hypothetical question for the hypothetical Brexit supporter...

[Toy Soldier]

This is a complete hypothetical, as I said, just a casual wondering, really...

IF significant numbers of polls over the next few months (and by significant I mean dozens, and every poll going one way) showed a large amount of regret over the result - for example, every single poll now showing 65%+ support for NOT implementing article 50 and remaining in the EU... What would your position be?

Would you accept that public opinion had shifted significantly and say we should just stay?

Would you think that we need a second vote?

... Or would you still want the government to forge ahead with Brexit based on Thursday's result?

Which best represents a true and fair democracy?

[arista]

No
its Set in Stone
I thank David for being Honest
In October or just after a New PM
takes over , She will start Art 50 off.


Just now on Question Time Live
I was pleased that Diane Abbott
confirmed that its Legit
and will now happen.

[DemolitionRed]

Your wording is somewhat provocative.
The democratic vote is now in and we should act on it.

[Tom4784]

Screw their regrets, they made a choice and now they're going to live with the consequences.

[smudgie]

I see no reason for anybody to panic, or have regrets yet, give it time.
The spin (lies) from both sides are over now and reality will dawn.
We opened the curtains this morning and the sky hasn't fallen in.:shrug:

[Toy Soldier]

Your wording is somewhat provocative.
The democratic vote is now in and we should act on it.
It's not supposed to be; I'm only even specifically using Brexit because it's what's sparked my pondering the nature of democracy itself, when it matters to people, when it doesn't, and what it's actually about. Is it about fluidly representing the will of the people? Or about "snapshots" like this one? Given the very changeable nature of opinion in an age with speed-of-light information and dominant, all encompassing media, do these snapshots actually mean anything at all? And if not, what IS modern democracy? Is it sustainable?

[Wizard.]

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word :D

[smudgie]

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word :D

Yeah, I was thinking more of her "Believe" .
Could have gone hand in hand with a BeLeave campaign.:joker:

[Toy Soldier]

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word :D
You're a funny sort of fellow. Wherever did you spring from, champ?

[jaxie]

This is a complete hypothetical, as I said, just a casual wondering, really...

IF significant numbers of polls over the next few months (and by significant I mean dozens, and every poll going one way) showed a large amount of regret over the result - for example, every single poll now showing 65%+ support for NOT implementing article 50 and remaining in the EU... What would your position be?

Would you accept that public opinion had shifted significantly and say we should just stay?

Would you think that we need a second vote?

... Or would you still want the government to forge ahead with Brexit based on Thursday's result?

Which best represents a true and fair democracy?

No I wouldn't accept we should just stay. If remain had won the vote and the same went the other way, would you? Sure you would. You have to accept that we voted this way. Democracy isn't having another vote every other week until it goes the way you want it to.

[bots]

a vote is never anything other than a snapshot in time. Thats why the leave campaign are quite happy to clarify all their lies now, the vote has been cast.

There is a responsibility on those voting to verify what they are being told or that their assumptions are correct, else they are just being spoon fed what to vote.

[Vicky.]

I doubt anyone who voted one way and won would be happy with the promised action not happening, even if EVERYONE else who voted that way changed their minds and this one person was the only one still sticking by it.

Most people I know voted out, however when they found out (the mnext day! Not even waiting a month or so to break it) that immigration levels wont actually change and the NHS gets none of the 'savings' felt very duped and wished they hadn't voted out.

I just wish the campaigns, on both sides, hadn't been so intent on scaring people into voting one or the other. if either campaign was actually factual...well basically it would have made more sense for people to understand what they are actually voting for. A referendum as it was, with so much misinformation flying around was really irresponsible I think tbh. Especially for a decision we can't ever go back on.

[jaxie]

a vote is never anything other than a snapshot in time. Thats why the leave campaign are quite happy to clarify all their lies now, the vote has been cast.

There is a responsibility on those voting to verify what they are being told or that their assumptions are correct, else they are just being spoon fed what to vote.

I voted to leave and the leave campaign might as well have been talking like the teacher in Charlie Brown for all the influence they had over my vote. I don't know if you realise this but sometimes people can make up their own minds without being spoon fed rhetoric by politicians.

[jaxie]

I doubt anyone who voted one way and won would be happy with the promised action not happening, even if EVERYONE else who voted that way changed their minds and this one person was the only one still sticking by it.

Most people I know voted out, however when they found out (the mnext day! Not even waiting a month or so to break it) that immigration levels wont actually change and the NHS gets none of the 'savings' felt very duped and wished they hadn't voted out.

I just wish the campaigns, on both sides, hadn't been so intent on scaring people into voting one or the other. if either campaign was actually factual...well basically it would have made more sense for people to understand what they are actually voting for. A referendum as it was, with so much misinformation flying around was really irresponsible I think tbh. Especially for a decision we can't ever go back on.

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.

[bots]

I voted to leave and the leave campaign might as well have been talking like the teacher in Charlie Brown for all the influence they had over my vote. I don't know if you realise this but sometimes people can make up their own minds without being spoon fed rhetoric by politicians.

that was exactly the point i was making, it requires effort and thought from the voter.

[Cherie]

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.


I wish everyone had done this Jaxie I fear that heart over head won the day in a lot of cases, spurred on by headlines like Inpdendence day etc, there seems to be a lot of ...oh I didn't realise ...or mine was a protest vote..I didn't expect to actually leave votes

[Vicky.]

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.

The NHS increased funding will absolutely not happen. I would bet my life on it, and its nothing to do with the Eu or whatever, but to do with the government who are currently in power, voted for by us. The Torys have been dismantling the NHS purposely. As such, no way on earth would they send any 'saved' money that way. I don't think the general public will see a penny of any savings made. Taxed will still go up, public services will still go down.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hang on I'll tell Dave and half of labour to rethink

[kirklancaster]

Absolutely no way. If such a precedent is set, we might as well ditch Democracy altogether and let anarchy reign.

How many times have people who voted Tory or Labour in General Elections soon come to regret their decision?

[Toy Soldier]

So the consensus then is that "democracy" is more about following a set of rules in order to fulfil the will of the individual, and not at all about ensuring that the wishes of the majority are adhered to?

[Withano]

A refferendum is not at all set in stone.. But I'm not a Brexit supporter so I can't answer this, I'd imagine 35% would not be okay with it whatsoever.

[kirklancaster]

The NHS increased funding will absolutely not happen. I would bet my life on it, and its nothing to do with the Eu or whatever, but to do with the government who are currently in power, voted for by us. The Torys have been dismantling the NHS purposely. As such, no way on earth would they send any 'saved' money that way. I don't think the general public will see a penny of any savings made. Taxed will still go up, public services will still go down.

It is up to us - THE PEOPLE of this country - Vicky, to FORCE any Government to spend the £20 Billion pa EU savings on this county's services and infrastructure.

This is NOT money that we don't know about - as is the general case - and the Government CANNOT spend it covertly the way Cameron did with the £34 Billion pound extra payment he secretly made to the EU after its demand for the UK to help settle the £259 Billion pound 'Black Hole' in the EU Budget because of fraud, even though that theft had zilch to do with us.

Thanks to the much wrongly maligned Farage, this 'Victory' is a clear message to ALL our politicians that THE PEOPLE are the UK, and that they are nothing more than public servants - OUR servants.

THEY are our servants, and we should now ramp it up and start ACTUALLY taking a more pro-active role in politics and what the politicians are really doing with our tax monies.

The last time that British people of all political persuasions stood together, a particularly nasty piece of Government legislature called The Poll Tax was scrapped.

The money will be there. It is up to US what the polticians do with it.

[Toy Soldier]

It's a lofty and admittedly admirable goal Kirk, and genuinely, you do put so much passion into the way you state it that I know you mean it, but I just do think that we're going to (quickly) find out that the likes of BawrisJawsson and Gove have very different ideas and that so far things are very much going their way, rather than "the people's". The only blip has been them prematurely losing their main "fall guy" in Cameron but I have no doubt they'll root out another.

[jaxie]

I wish everyone had done this Jaxie I fear that heart over head won the day in a lot of cases, spurred on by headlines like Inpdendence day etc, there seems to be a lot of ...oh I didn't realise ...or mine was a protest vote..I didn't expect to actually leave votes

I genuinely 100% feel that this will the best thing we have ever done for the UK. That's all I can say to you, give it time.

But I have never been a supporter of the EU, there are a few reasons but mostly for me it is simply unacceptable to be part of an organisation that has the power to make laws for me, but cannot be voted out democratically. I find the mindset of the European project where everyone who doesn't want that federal ideal has to be dragged along with it without any say in it and with no compromise completely alien.

[Liberty4eva]

I just had a brilliant idea for the Remainers who are mad at the result.

What if the UK government and EU set up a program where all the Remainers can sign up and, for their own sanity, keep pretending that they are still part of the EU? How it would work is every year they send Brussels 250 pounds by mail. Then the following month Brussels sends them 100 pounds along with a list of the latest bureaucratic developments which highlight the things they can and can't do.

I think it's a win-win. Those who voted for freedom from the EU will have it and those who didn't won't. I am a genius. :smug:

[Cherie]

I just had a brilliant idea for the Remainers who are mad at the result.

What if the UK government and EU set up a program where all the Remainers can sign up and, for their own sanity, keep pretending that they are still part of the EU? How it would work is every year they send Brussels 250 pounds by mail. Then the following month Brussels sends them 100 pounds along with a list of the latest bureaucratic developments which highlight the things they can and can't do.

I think it's a win-win. Those who voted for freedom from the EU will have it and those who didn't won't. I am a genius. :smug:

I have a brilliant idea could you just stop trolling?

[Liberty4eva]

I have a brilliant idea could you just stop trolling?

It's not trolling. Sometimes one silly idea deserves to be answered by another silly idea. I think the people have spoken and every time people vote there ought to be consequences.

[jennyjuniper]

This is a complete hypothetical, as I said, just a casual wondering, really...

IF significant numbers of polls over the next few months (and by significant I mean dozens, and every poll going one way) showed a large amount of regret over the result - for example, every single poll now showing 65%+ support for NOT implementing article 50 and remaining in the EU... What would your position be?

Would you accept that public opinion had shifted significantly and say we should just stay?

Would you think that we need a second vote?

... Or would you still want the government to forge ahead with Brexit based on Thursday's result?

Which best represents a true and fair democracy?

In Denmark, which is supposed to be a democracy, the public were asked to vote whether or not to become part of the EU. There was a resounding NO. So the government had another referendum and they kept on having them until they reached the magic 51%. So I suppose my answer is that people can be swayed to the 'other side' or just give in out of sheer exasperation.

[Cherie]

In Denmark, which is supposed to be a democracy, the public were asked to vote whether or not to become part of the EU. There was a resounding NO. So the government had another referendum and they kept on having them until they reached the magic 51%. So I suppose my answer is that people can be swayed to the 'other side' or just give in out of sheer exasperation.

For it :clap2:

[joeysteele]

In Denmark, which is supposed to be a democracy, the public were asked to vote whether or not to become part of the EU. There was a resounding NO. So the government had another referendum and they kept on having them until they reached the magic 51%. So I suppose my answer is that people can be swayed to the 'other side' or just give in out of sheer exasperation.

That is really interesting.

I think another referendum here on this would be likely absurd,however in light of the type of misinformed campaign, and now seeing the after effects following the vote, it could be interesting to see what another came up with as to the result.

Voting in hindsight, rather than in the dark may not be that bad a thing.

[Kizzy]

Scotland may veto it and force one.

[bots]

Scotland may veto it and force one.

they can't actually veto. They can withold consent, but it doesn't equate to the same thing as their consent is not required to action it.

[joeysteele]

Scotland may veto it and force one.

For sure Kizzy, Nicola Sturgeon is not going to leave any stone unturned in order to find a way if she can to veto this, or influence Westminster MPs to vote it down.

She is formidable and not to be underestimated.

[Kizzy]

they can't actually veto. They can withold consent, but it doesn't equate to the same thing as their consent is not required to action it.

You sure?

Nicola Sturgeon has appeared to suggest the Scottish Parliament could effectively block the UK’s exit from the European Union.

It comes after Scotland voted by 62 per cent to Remain in the European Union while Britain, as a whole, voted by 52 per cent to 48 per cent to leave Europe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-veto-brexit-scottish-parliament-eu-referendum-scotland-latest-a7104046.html

[bots]

You sure?

Nicola Sturgeon has appeared to suggest the Scottish Parliament could effectively block the UK’s exit from the European Union.

It comes after Scotland voted by 62 per cent to Remain in the European Union while Britain, as a whole, voted by 52 per cent to 48 per cent to leave Europe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-veto-brexit-scottish-parliament-eu-referendum-scotland-latest-a7104046.html

yes, i'm sure

[joeysteele]

She seems fairly sure there is something she has come across that can possibly be used in the devolved powers bills to Scotland as to constitutional issues.

No doubt she will have a good and strong legal team looking more deeply into that possibility.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its up to individuals to get off their arses and research not rely on busses and what is written in them

If you would rathert watch GOT or play lotto than Google 'what is the EU'


Then FU

[Cherie]

That is really interesting.

I think another referendum here on this would be likely absurd,however in light of the type of misinformed campaign, and now seeing the after effects following the vote, it could be interesting to see what another came up with as to the result.

Voting in hindsight, rather than in the dark may not be that bad a thing.


Ireland went to a second referendum only few years back..it's not unheard of

[Kizzy]

yes, i'm sure

Is there any logic behind your comment then as it appears the Scottish first minister thinks differently? Or are you not listening because she's an expert, I know some people have just had enough of experts.

[joeysteele]

Ireland went to a second referendum only few years back..it's not unheard of

As to the euro.

It could be legitimately done and this vote was really close too, if no one can agree on the way forward,who knows Cherie.

[Toy Soldier]

Its up to individuals to get off their arses and research not rely on busses and what is written in them

If you would rathert watch GOT or play lotto than Google 'what is the EU'


Then FU
Yes but they didn't, and that is what in part makes it a total farce,and really the basis of my point. The few dupe the masses into furthering their agenda and then when the public suddenly realised that they're not getting what they voted for, they are "too late". The masses opinion then changes but the few have already taken their snapshot and use it to their advantage - in full knowledge that their action now no longer represents the will of the majority.

I just keep hearing a lot of "OMG can't you just accept majority opinion". But what if it simply isn't? What if it WAS a majority opinion based on people believing "facts and figures" that have already proven to be fantasy? None of it is real, it's the illusion of input. Smoke and mirrors of the powerful designed to win a "game" and get that snapshot opinion poll at just the right second to further machinations that have nothing at all to do with what people thought they were voting on. I don't understand why more leave voters aren't furious about the process, about being so blatantly and unashamedly used, even if they still believe the outcome was for the best. I don't understand why we're all still playing along with the list process that makes all of us so, so small. If anything, we should all be United in disgust by the very process, the fact that no one - NO ONE - on either side of any of these votes will just give us the facts and the figures and let us truly decide.

Maybe we're all just so blinded by the disappointment / excitement of the result every time that we fail to stop and question the rest of it.

[kirklancaster]

yes, i'm sure

Yes, and you are right to be sure BOTS.

[Kizzy]

Oh it's ok, I think someone asked bob down the dog track....Apparently it can't be done.

[kirklancaster]

Yes but they didn't, and that is what in part makes it a total farce,and really the basis of my point. The few dupe the masses into furthering their agenda and then when the public suddenly realised that they're not getting what they voted for, they are "too late". The masses opinion then changes but the few have already taken their snapshot and use it to their advantage - in full knowledge that their action now no longer represents the will of the majority.

I just keep hearing a lot of "OMG can't you just accept majority opinion". But what if it simply isn't? What if it WAS a majority opinion based on people believing "facts and figures" that have already proven to be fantasy? None of it is real, it's the illusion of input. Smoke and mirrors of the powerful designed to win a "game" and get that snapshot opinion poll at just the right second to further machinations that have nothing at all to do with what people thought they were voting on. I don't understand why more leave voters aren't furious about the process, about being so blatantly and unashamedly used, even if they still believe the outcome was for the best. I don't understand why we're all still playing along with the list process that makes all of us so, so small. If anything, we should all be United in disgust by the very process, the fact that no one - NO ONE - on either side of any of these votes will just give us the facts and the figures and let us truly decide.

Maybe we're all just so blinded by the disappointment / excitement of the result every time that we fail to stop and question the rest of it.

You speak the truth that politicians deceive the GBP with lies in order to secure their support on proposals, but when it comes to the 'EU Referendum' and any suggestion that alleged lies any 'Leave' politicians told 'Leave' voters, is reason enough to contest the legality of the Referendum, or justification for holding a further one, then, unfortunately, we are on very shaky ground, because:

1) I can personally PROVE that the 'Remain' campaigners lied on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE which formed the WHOLE case to remain.
m
2) We would NOT even be in the EU in the first place, had Sir Edward Teeth, I mean Heath, not LIED TO us when he took us in to what was then The Common Market', after which, we were lied to again in Wilson's 1975 Referendum, when we voted to stay in.

So, in my opinion, there is nothing to be gained from anyone using any alleged 'Leave' Campaign lies in order to try to justify any ridiculous notion of any second Referendum.

[bots]

Is there any logic behind your comment then as it appears the Scottish first minister thinks differently? Or are you not listening because she's an expert, I know some people have just had enough of experts.

i'm basing it on knowledge that i have. Is that a problem?

[kirklancaster]

i'm basing it on knowledge that i have. Is that a problem?

Any other member's knowledge is a problem if it doesn't fit the viewpoint of the one's questioning it BOTS - you ought to know that. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

i'm basing it on knowledge that i have. Is that a problem?

So you know more than the Scottish first minister, is that what you are saying? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying.

[kirklancaster]

I know more than the Scottish First Minister - I know what DEMOCRACY is.

[Vicky.]

It is up to us - THE PEOPLE of this country - Vicky, to FORCE any Government to spend the £20 Billion pa EU savings on this county's services and infrastructure.

This is NOT money that we don't know about - as is the general case - and the Government CANNOT spend it covertly the way Cameron did with the £34 Billion pound extra payment he secretly made to the EU after its demand for the UK to help settle the £259 Billion pound 'Black Hole' in the EU Budget because of fraud, even though that theft had zilch to do with us.

Thanks to the much wrongly maligned Farage, this 'Victory' is a clear message to ALL our politicians that THE PEOPLE are the UK, and that they are nothing more than public servants - OUR servants.

THEY are our servants, and we should now ramp it up and start ACTUALLY taking a more pro-active role in politics and what the politicians are really doing with our tax monies.

The last time that British people of all political persuasions stood together, a particularly nasty piece of Government legislature called The Poll Tax was scrapped.

The money will be there. It is up to US what the polticians do with it.
That is a lovely idea. Unrealistic, but lovely.

[Kizzy]

I know more than the Scottish First Minister - I know what DEMOCRACY is.

Oh two of you are experts now?..Oh sorry, experts are so last season.

[joeysteele]

I think her legal team will know more than any of us and if there is anything in the devolved power bill that has any guarantees as to constitutional change or any mention of Scotland's protection as to the EU.

Then even if there is the slightest piece of a condition that can be used that way, then for as long as Scotland is part of the UK, the UK will not be able to proceed and force Scotland to comply.

There may be nothing of that nature there but she thinks she has come across something, if its not then she cannot veto the move.
If by any small chance there is anything that can be used to maybe veto,then it will be her 'democratic' right to use it to protect Scotland and possibly veto this change, and that will be 'democracy' too.

None of us know every little thing in the devolved powers acts there have been to Scotland, absolutely none of us.

[bots]

I think her legal team will know more than any of us and if there is anything in the devolved power bill that has any guarantees as to constitutional change or any mention of Scotland's protection as to the EU.

Then even if there is the slightest piece of a conditions that can be used that way, then for as long as Scotland is part of the UK, the UK will not be able to proceed and force Scotland to comply.

There may be nothing of that nature there but she thinks she has come across something, if its not then she cannot veto the move.
If by any small chance there is anything that can be used to maybe veto,then will be her 'democratic' right to use it to protect Scotland and possibly veto this change, and that will be 'democracy' too.

None of us know every little thing in the devolved powers acts there have been to Scotland, absolutely none of us.
There have been experts in constitutional law that have already commented on it. Anyway, i'm not going to get in an argument about it. What will be will be .... my feeling is we will end up associate EU members anyway so hold on to your hats :laugh:

[joeysteele]

There have been experts in constitutional law that have already commented on it. Anyway, i'm not going to get in an argument about it. What will be will be .... my feeling is we will end up associate EU members anyway so hold on to your hats :laugh:

I agree and would be happy myself with us being associate members,I doubt most of the leave side will be too happy with that however.

[Tom4784]

Oh two of you are experts now?..Oh sorry, experts are so last season.

EXPERTS?! WE DON'T NEED EXPERTS! THEY'RE NAZI SCUM! We know best!

[Cherie]

It's not trolling. Sometimes one silly idea deserves to be answered by another silly idea. I think the people have spoken and every time people vote there ought to be consequences.


So I've just heard a figure this morning that might interest you, in Middlesborough a deprived City in the North East, for every 1.00 they gave the EU they got 1.07 back, care to comment on that silly idea.

[jaxie]

I agree and would be happy myself with us being associate members,I doubt most of the leave side will be too happy with that however.

That would depend entirely on what the associate membership meant, what was in it for us, if we had to pay for it, whether we would have any control over our own borders and if and how much we had to comply with EU law. If we can have a trade deal without any of the other crap and didn't have to pay more than tarrifs outsiders pay for it, sure why not.

If Sturgeon found a way to prevent the vote going forward it would be unforgivable.

[bots]

That would depend entirely on what the associate membership meant, what was in it for us, if we had to pay for it, whether we would have any control over our own borders and if and how much we had to comply with EU law. If we can have a trade deal without any of the other crap and didn't have to pay more than tarrifs outsiders pay for it, sure why not.

If Sturgeon found a way to prevent the vote going forward it would be unforgivable.

We would be setting the terms for any associate membership, so yes, thats how i see it ending up. It would basically be the re-negotiating terms that should have happened in the first place before we left.

[joeysteele]

That would depend entirely on what the associate membership meant, what was in it for us, if we had to pay for it, whether we would have any control over our own borders and if and how much we had to comply with EU law. If we can have a trade deal without any of the other crap and didn't have to pay more than tarrifs outsiders pay for it, sure why not.

If Sturgeon found a way to prevent the vote going forward it would be unforgivable.

Not really jaxie and hi by the way.

Nicola Sturgeon runs a Nationalist govt in Scotland, she has to at all times consider the wishes of her citizens.
She is in a difficult position of having just over a third of her electorate voting to leave the EU and nearly two thirds voting to remain.
Now that was really a decisive result.

It is then her duty to do anything and everything she can to halt the process of herself and her nation being forced out of the EU massively against their wishes.
For her not to try to do that would be what was unforgivable.

Equally Northern Ireland too who voted with a double figure majority to remain, 55.8% to 44.2%.

Whereas the vote to leave in Wales was only a majority of 5% and in England also smaller being 6.8%

The main thrust of the leave campaigns were to remove the free movement of EU citizens, it is very likely under associate membership that free movement will have to be still accepted.

If the leave campaigns can now likely accept that, what was the issue before then and why make it a major part of the campaign,if in the end we end up still having to accept it.
Along with other conditions too, that we will not be able to vote on in future if they change them again but will still have to accept..

[smudgie]

So I've just heard a figure this morning that might interest you, in Middlesborough a deprived City in the North East, for every 1.00 they gave the EU they got 1.07 back, care to comment on that silly idea.

Middlesbrough is a town, not actually a city.
Only parts of the town are run down...mostly populated by asslum seekers, Middlesbrough has the highest quota of asylum seekers in the country , perhaps the 7p in the pound they receive is to pay for their housing and upkeep:shrug:

[Kizzy]

Middlesbrough is a town, not actually a city.
Only parts of the town are run down...mostly populated by asslum seekers, Middlesbrough has the highest quota of asylum seekers in the country , perhaps the 7p in the pound they receive is to pay for their housing and upkeep:shrug:

Maybe it is, and now there will be no excess but the asylum seekers will still be there, because we all know that Oxford can't afford to house asylum seekers.

There will be towns and cities where this scenario is replicated too, so where will the excess come from?

[smudgie]

Maybe it is, and now there will be no excess but the asylum seekers will still be there, because we all know that Oxford can't afford to house asylum seekers.

There will be towns and cities where this scenario is replicated too, so where will the excess come from?

Hopefully it will be a kick up the backside for the authorities and the applications for asylum seekers will be speeded up.

[Kizzy]

Hopefully it will be a kick up the backside for the authorities and the applications for asylum seekers will be speeded up.

Are you thinking that those who have homes in Middlesboro are unprocessed that's asylum seekers? that's not how immigration works.

[Livia]

The referendum had been and gone and the result was clear. I don't see the point in hypotheticals now. You can't have another election because the loudest people say it's the wrong decision.

[arista]

The referendum had been and gone and the result was clear. I don't see the point in hypotheticals now. You can't have another election because the loudest people say it's the wrong decision.


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[Niamh.]

Or don't post in it if you're not interested in it? ^

[Kizzy]

Or don't post in it if you're not interested in it? ^

:clap1:

[Toy Soldier]

The referendum had been and gone and the result was clear. I don't see the point in hypotheticals now. You can't have another election because the loudest people say it's the wrong decision.
The point of a hypothetical is to open up abstract debate. Not really important that you personally don't see the point.

The original question, just to add, was what would you say if there was significant and irrefutable evidence that the vast majority of people had changed their opinion... Not the "loudest".

I'm also not saying that that has or is likely to happen.

[joeysteele]

The result is clear as to the overall vote, no doubt about that,although even Boris Johnson is now saying it is not an overwhelming result.

What is a fact also and which should not just be discounted by some with a more negative attitude towards other citizens across in the UK, is the fact that 2 of the 4 UK Nations wanted to remain in the EU, and by a good bit stronger majority than the 2 that voted to leave.

England in the main,can dismiss and ignore those votes if it wishes but it should not end up complaining and regretting, should it end up not even having a United Kingdom at the end of such arrogance.

[Kizzy]

The result is clear as to the overall vote, no doubt about that,although even Boris Johnson is now saying it is not an overwhelming result.

What is a fact also and which should not just be discounted by some with a more negative attitude towards other citizens across in the UK, is the fact that 2 of the 4 UK Nations wanted to remain in the EU, and by a good bit stronger majority than the 2 that voted to leave.

England in the main,can dismiss and ignore those votes if it wishes but it should not end up complaining and regretting, should it end up not even having a United Kingdom at the end of such arrogance.

You know that's right the vote maybe should have been counted based on the representative electorate in each country within the UK?

[GiRTh]

Or don't post in it if you're not interested in it? ^
x2

[bots]

You know that's right the vote maybe should have been counted based on the representative electorate in each country within the UK?

Apparently Nicola asked for the results to be treated separately by country as the referendum was being formulated and Dave told her not to be stupid :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Apparently Nicola asked for the results to be treated separately by country as the referendum was being formulated and Dave told her not to be stupid :laugh:

How rude, what an unpleasant person he is.

[Cherie]

Apparently Nicola asked for the results to be treated separately by country
as the referendum was being formulated and Dave told her not to be stupid :laugh:

She wanted a majority of 60 per cent I bet he wished he listened

[joeysteele]

She wanted a majority of 60 per cent I bet he wished he listened

I am sure he does too.

After all we have heard a lot about no democracy in the EU, yet when it comes down to the issue of a new Nation joining the EU, all the member Nations have to support it.
Malta with a tiny population has the same status as a member, as to that issue, as the big guns, Germany ad France, despite their populations being massively larger it is still one vote for all.
ALL 'have' to agree.


Yet here in the UK we call democracy where 2 UK supposed equal Nations who voted to remain and with the bigger percentage of population voting majorities, have their votes and status dismissed by the 2 who voted to leave with much smaller percentage of population voting majorities.

I know which one I prefer to see.
All the Nations of the UK should have had to agree to this exit from the EU, not just 2 of them.

[the truth]

I am sure he does too.

After all we have heard a lot about no democracy in the EU, yet when it comes down to the issue of a new Nation joining the EU, all the member Nations have to support it.
Malta with a tiny population has the same status as a member, as to that issue, as the big guns, Germany ad France, despite their populations being massively larger it is still one vote for all.
ALL 'have' to agree.


Yet here in the UK we call democracy where 2 UK supposed equal Nations who voted to remain and with the bigger percentage of population voting majorities, have their votes and status dismissed by the 2 who voted to leave with much smaller percentage of population voting majorities.

I know which one I prefer to see.
All the Nations of the UK should have had to agree to this exit from the EU, not just 2 of them.


theyre part of the uk end of.....when the tories gets voted into westminster the scots and welsh always vote for labour or snp but the population is in england so thats end of chat