Chilcott on Wednesday : Can we call Blair a War Criminal

[arista]

This was Debated Live on LBC
today
on the Stig Abell Show.

[Stig at 3pm on @LBC: ahead of Chilcot, is it time to recognise that,
whatever else he may be,
Tony Blair should not be called a war criminal?]

Stig made a valid start
Then a lady from the Middle East phoned in
and destroyed all his words.


She said Blair/Bush in Iraq
murdered children (meaning Carpet Bombing)

There is also a story on SkyNewsHD today
its a mother and he young son
she said Blair killed her Husband.
The boy said if he came across Blair
he would not say a word
just look into his eyes.


Is Blair a War Criminal
I say Yes he is

[Pete.]

Blair and Bush are both criminal scum but I don't think they are sweating over this report

[arista]

Blair and Bush are both criminal scum but I don't think they are sweating over this report


No do not use that word please
He was a PM who made a Big Error

[DemolitionRed]

I'm presently reading 'Blair & Iraq' by Steve Richards.

Interestingly, the chilcot report doesn’t look into the psychology of why Blair chose to side with the American president and lie to his own government and the British people.

From what I’ve read so far, Blair seems like a very weak minded leader who was desperate to remain popular with the Conservatives, Rupert Murdoch and President Bush and if that meant turning his back on his own establishment as well as the British people, he was willing to take that risk. He actually reveled in being called Bush’s poodle and saw it as a big compliment. He was well aware that Margaret Thatcher became a super star after being accepted within the close circles of Reagan; he wanted that same status.

[kirklancaster]

He is totally abhorrent; a war criminal, crook and traitor. I once accused him of hiding from the rammifications of his policies and told him; "Come out from behind that BUSH". :laugh:

[arista]

I'm presently reading 'Blair & Iraq' by Steve Richards.

Interestingly, the chilcot report doesn’t look into the psychology of why Blair chose to side with the American president and lie to his own government and the British people.

From what I’ve read so far, Blair seems like a very weak minded leader who was desperate to remain popular with the Conservatives, Rupert Murdoch and President Bush and if that meant turning his back on his own establishment as well as the British people, he was willing to take that risk. He actually reveled in being called Bush’s poodle and saw it as a big compliment. He was well aware that Margaret Thatcher became a super star after being accepted within the close circles of Reagan; he wanted that same status.


Yes I like Steve Richards
get him on LBC , Stig please

[arista]

He is totally abhorrent; a war criminal, crook and traitor. I once accused him of hiding from the rammifications of his policies and told him; "Come out from behind that BUSH". :laugh:


What in person?

[DemolitionRed]

He is totally abhorrent; a war criminal, crook and traitor. I once accused him of hiding from the rammifications of his policies and told him; "Come out from behind that BUSH". :laugh:

:joker:

[kirklancaster]

What in person?

Yes, I think it was 2002? I was in Blackpool on business and I do not want to go into detail, but I actually was within shouting distance of the 'orrible treacherous lttle pixie - seperated by his security and hangers on. He ignored me, but I nearly got arrested. :laugh:

It was the same time, the great Andrew Neil spent time talking to me (and agreeing with me. :hee:) while he was sitting with an attractive blond waiting for a Chinese takeaway.

Later that night, I was about to enter my friend's nightclub in a mixed party, when a Channel 4 Outside Broadcasting team - who were carrying out street interviews - stopped me and asked if I could comment on some political shet (I can't even remember what :hee:) and I had a 10 minute 'rant' which drew great applause from the growing crowd AND the TV crew, but guess what Arista -- NONE of it was broadcast. The political truth hurts uh?

Happy days.

[DemolitionRed]

Well I've just finished the book and all I can say is, what a pathetic mess of a man.

[arista]

"Yes, I think it was 2002? "


HOW NICE

[joeysteele]

My guess would be that this report will no doubt be indeed very long but the main thrust of it will be that the war was not illegal,that parliament was misled.
For that Tony Blair will be firmly to blame.

I think it will condemn in the strongest way possible that having no full and just plan for the end of the conflict .
Again that will be Tony Blair to blame.

However I don't think and would be surprised if it did, go as far as to say any war crimes issue is in play here.

A lot of blame and inappropriate handling of the conflict, up to, during and after it,no real guilt of any standing however.
To hold Tony Blair as a war criminal would be to infer and accuse the former USA President of same and it would really surprise me to find that being inferred in this report.

[Mystic Mock]

If Blair was Chinese, Russian, or Pakistani he would be being called a War Criminal, as would the idiot that was the US's President at the time.

[DemolitionRed]

Yes but its up to the Americans to investigate Bush. The reason we investigated Blair was because sound evidence came forward that proved he very deliberately mislead his cabinet and nation about WMD. By all accounts he had taken a very weak document and spruced it up into something quite unrecognizable.

On top of that, when it came to light that American military personnel were torturing prisoners of war in Iraq, Blair continued to hold Bush’s hand. When America gave Sadam the death sentence he still held Bush’s hand.

He didn’t only sacrifice innocent Iraqi’s for his own vanity, he sacrificed our soldiers and that’s what he has to pay for.

[arista]

Yes but its up to the Americans to investigate Bush. The reason we investigated Blair was because sound evidence came forward that proved he very deliberately mislead his cabinet and nation about WMD. By all accounts he had taken a very weak document and spruced it up into something quite unrecognizable.

On top of that, when it came to light that American military personnel were torturing prisoners of war in Iraq, Blair continued to hold Bush’s hand. When America gave Sadam the death sentence he still held Bush’s hand.

He didn’t only sacrifice innocent Iraqi’s for his own vanity, he sacrificed our soldiers and that’s what he has to pay for.

Bush Paints Now.

America say they did Nothing Wrong

It was All Blairs Fault UK Parliament Falsehood

[arista]

All TV / RADIO

is at the outside of the QEC (down the road from Westminster)
for the Result of Blair's Falsehood.

[DemolitionRed]

If you want to read the full report, don't want to spend £767 and have a few days to spend you will be able to read it, later today, on http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/

[Livia]

There are over 2.6 million words in this report. I'd be willing to bet that no one on here will be reading it.

The fact that Blair stepped away from Iraq and went on to be a Middle East Peace Envoy demonstrates how little he will suffer from this report.

[DemolitionRed]

Peace envoy or not, Tony Blair is going straight to hell 1O2Hfx8Xggg

[Livia]

That's an excellent clip....

As a Jew I don't believe in hell. This is one time I really hope I'm wrong.

[DemolitionRed]

There are over 2.6 million words in this report. I'd be willing to bet that no one on here will be reading it.

The fact that Blair stepped away from Iraq and went on to be a Middle East Peace Envoy demonstrates how little he will suffer from this report.

I agree, very few people will read this entire report but the download is easy to navigate if all you want to look at is key findings and conclusions.

[arista]

LAWYER Blair
is all Live on Media NOW

He is Re writing History
to trick the Young on tibb.


His Crying Now

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476230/default/v1/cegrab-20160706-142049-735-1-736x414.jpg

Now Mr.Blair
Stop Crying


You say America
was going to attack anyway
LET THEM DO IT ALONE.


France said NO
so what did USA do
Removed French Fries
Renamed them./
And Destroyed French Wine Bottles


But at that time France was right.


Mr . Blair
Legally I can not call you much
but Because of your Parliament falsehood
USA then went to war


SHOCK AND AWARE
CARPET BOMBING

Now Isis are here
because of You Mr. Blair


Stop Crying you Punk

[arista]

1441 a REMIX

Corbyn Please
tell us what you think
of New Blair Labour.


I say YES attack
but only USA
not our troops.

Ch4HDNews
will be good

At the time of Invasion NO WMD
found
FACT

[Shaun]

In response to the title, a resounding yes.

[arista]

And because Blair Joined hands with GW Bush


London got bombed in Tubes
and One Bus
because that last Terrorist could not set it off in the underground
they were BIG back packs
all were British Muslims


Fact

[arista]

In response to the title, a resounding yes.



I thank You

[arista]

Yes Blair : you should have said
America will invade
without us.

Then we would not be connected

[chuff me dizzy]

100% War criminal ,may he rot in hell

[arista]

No Chuff he walks FREE

[Kizzy]

There are over 2.6 million words in this report. I'd be willing to bet that no one on here will be reading it.

The fact that Blair stepped away from Iraq and went on to be a Middle East Peace Envoy demonstrates how little he will suffer from this report.

Please don't presume anything about other members.

Is it required to read the full document to comment? Strange.

[the truth]

100% War criminal ,may he rot in hell 100% the man is pure evil scum. the master of lies and evasion

[kirklancaster]

100% the man is pure evil scum. the master of lies and evasion

It is not just concerning this grave issue either - he was duplicitous over the EU.

He is now the politician whom I regard with the most hatred, and his arrogant contempt in parading himself on our TV screens and in the media to support the remain argument when he should have been hiding under a rock, just about sums him up for me, the slimy bastard.

[the truth]

It is not just concerning this grave issue either - he was duplicitous over the EU.

He is now the politician whom I regard with the most hatred, and his arrogant contempt in parading himself on our TV screens and in the media to support the remain argument when he should have been hiding under a rock, just about sums him up for me, the slimy bastard.

A-Plan Insurance | Parkstone
58 /60 Commercial Rd, Parkstone BH14 0JT


the vile despicable liar tony blair is exposed yet again as a charlatan warmonger, today cameron was mealy mouthed as he voted for the invasion, corbyn was excellent he totally nailed it and was against this abomination from the start, bravo corbyn

[joeysteele]

A-Plan Insurance | Parkstone
58 /60 Commercial Rd, Parkstone BH14 0JT


the vile despicable liar tony blair is exposed yet again as a charlatan warmonger, today cameron was mealy mouthed as he voted for the invasion, corbyn was excellent he totally nailed it and was against this abomination from the start, bravo corbyn

Full credit to Corbyn,he was spot on and made a truly brilliant response to this today.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/06/16/35FEAE1000000578-3676847-Protests_Several_demonstrators_were_wearing_Tony_B lair_masks_and-a-231_1467817870888.jpg
The Demo outside
while Blair spoke

[Pete.]

Send him to The Hague :clap1:

[Livia]

Please don't presume anything about other members.

Is it required to read the full document to comment? Strange.

Pointless post Kizzy.

No one's going to read it, it's four times the size of War and Peace. And no... quite obviously... no one has to read it to comment. I haven't read it and I've commented. Obvious.

[MTVN]

Well I have neither read it all nor followed much of the coverage today but it seems to me that the report has told us nothing that we did not already know and reached nowhere near the damning verdict of Mr Blair as a 'war criminal' that many people would have liked

[joeysteele]

Well I have neither read it all nor followed much of the coverage today but it seems to me that the report has told us nothing that we did not already know and reached nowhere near the damning verdict of Mr Blair as a 'war criminal' that many people would have liked

This really.

Mistakes, bad judgement,possibly inexperience in part too,being a bit gullible as to just accepting so called evidence of wmd.
However as you say it was not the damning report some were hoping for.

I still also say, no matter who was in power at the time, we would have still followed the USA on this with likely not much better outcome or even the same as to the result.
Without any appropriate end plan and what came after.

As the PM said, it had almost happened again as to Libya.

[Kizzy]

I don't know what papers you've been reading... seems like the report was pretty damning to me :/

[the truth]

report crucified him. blamed his for everything. exaggerating ecverything rushing everything no equipment for troops agreeing to the illegal war way in advance with bush, failure to form a coallition of nations, no second un mandate for war, totally obstructing and circumventing cabinet, the dodgy dossier fo damn lies, the made up 45 minute threat, the contradiction over saddam who the west empowered for decades, the million plus dead, the millions of refugees he created, the lack of any weapons of mass destruction, spin doctors in cabinet sexing up documents, lack of fighter planes, failure to look after injured soliders, the complete and utter failure to plan the aftermath, the collapse of infrastructure, the lies and the catastrophe is infinite

[arista]

Well I have neither read it all nor followed much of the coverage today but it seems to me that the report has told us nothing that we did not already know and reached nowhere near the damning verdict of Mr Blair as a 'war criminal' that many people would have liked

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476123/default/v3/gettyimages-51702691-1-536x302.jpg

[Jack_]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476123/default/v3/gettyimages-51702691-1-536x302.jpg

"Did you not bleach like I asked you to, George?"

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476278/default/v1/metro-th-1-992x558.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476279/default/v1/ft-thurs-1-992x558.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476283/default/v1/daily-teleg-1-992x558.jpg

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476285/default/v1/times-thurs-1-992x558.jpg

Sure but he is the Fecker that started Isis
in the end result

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/7/6/476287/default/v1/mirror-daily-t-1-992x558.jpg

But France said NO

So USA renamed "French Fries"
and French Wine was chucked down the Drain

Alot of Drunk Rats

I hope the Younger Members of tibb
buy a Newspaper today

[arista]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1296D/production/_90314167_i.jpg

You are Fecking MAD


http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/065F/production/_90313610_sun.jpg
Master Plan


http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16207/production/_90313609_mail.jpg

Devil

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/42F5/production/_90314171_star.jpg


Bang On Right

[arista]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13AF7/production/_90313608_guardian.jpg

[the truth]

the man is a deranged psychopath he must go the the war crimes court for heinous crimes against humanity.

[Mystic Mock]

the man is a deranged psychopath he must go the the war crimes court for heinous crimes against humanity.

And don't forget that grin.

[arista]

And don't forget that grin.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/07/00/35FED1EE00000578-0-image-a-99_1467847205332.jpg

[DemolitionRed]

Full credit to Corbyn,he was spot on and made a truly brilliant response to this today.

The man who heckled Corbyn during his speech was no other than New Labour Ian Austin. Disgusting little runt.

[DemolitionRed]

The Sun's headline should not be using the word 'squaddie'. Squaddie is slang for soldier of a low rank.

[joeysteele]

A main point is and I have no time for Tony Blair.

This inquiry could not really look at the legality of the invasion.
So immaterial of what the press use for their sensationalist headlines, this thread asks as to Chilcott, can Blair be called a war criminal.
The short answer is no after this report.

He has been made to look really foolish and misguided, also his obvious determination to do nothing to upset President bush and totally following the lead there also brings in incompetence.

We should not have invaded, we should not have supported the USA to do so.

Really little has come out of this report that I and others in my circle of political opinion didn't expect.

He could have never supported the action had the Commons maybe delved deeper as to the vote.
Over 130 of Blair's MPs voted against the action, it only got through parliaments thanks to the opposition votes.

As David Cameron said yesterday, all who supported it have to look at themselves too.
Obviously as the PM, Blair has to rightly take the blame and full burden of responsibility for the handling of the issue.

However those wanting him brought up for war crimes, I feel are going to be disappointed, so to justifiably call him a war criminal has not been supported or indicated by this report.
As understandably infuriating and frustrating that is to many.

[Samm]

He should be prosecuted as a war criminal, evil ****

[kirklancaster]

A main point is and I have no time for Tony Blair.

This inquiry could not really look at the legality of the invasion.
So immaterial of what the press use for their sensationalist headlines, this thread asks as to Chilcott, can Blair be called a war criminal.
The short answer is no after this report.

He has been made to look really foolish and misguided, also his obvious determination to do nothing to upset President bush and totally following the lead there also brings in incompetence.

We should not have invaded, we should not have supported the USA to do so.

Really little has come out of this report that I and others in my circle of political opinion didn't expect.

He could have never supported the action had the Commons maybe delved deeper as to the vote.
Over 130 of Blair's MPs voted against the action, it only got through parliaments thanks to the opposition votes.

As David Cameron said yesterday, all who supported it have to look at themselves too.
Obviously as the PM, Blair has to rightly take the blame and full burden of responsibility for the handling of the issue.

However those wanting him brought up for war crimes, I feel are going to be disappointed, so to justifiably call him a war criminal has not been supported or indicated by this report.
As understandably infuriating and frustrating that is to many.

Report findings or no eport findings, there is much more to Criminal Liability than deliberate intent, there is Criminal Neglect - and on that score Smiling Boy Blair is emphatically guilty.

[Livia]

He sent our troops into a war zone woefully under-equipped after years of under-funding in the MOD. For that alone he should be prosecuted... and if he claims he didn't know, well, ignorance is no defence.

[kirklancaster]

He sent our troops into a war zone woefully under-equipped after years of under-funding in the MOD. For that alone he should be prosecuted... and if he claims he didn't know, well, ignorance is no defence.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: His fecking ears are big enough - He should have LISTENED to advisors.

[Livia]

:clap1::clap1::clap1: His fecking ears are big enough - He should have LISTENED to advisors.

You know, the American troops called our troops "The Borrowers" because they didn't even have the basics and the Americans were lending them stuff. Our guys were writing home for families to send them equipment.

Didn't we always know, all along, that Blair would come out of this giving only an apology?

[Anaesthesia]

You know, the American troops called our troops "The Borrowers" because they didn't even have the basics and the Americans were lending them stuff. Our guys were writing home for families to send them equipment.

Didn't we always know, all along, that Blair would come out of this giving only an apology?

Not only just an apology, but a half-assed insincere one at that...and then says he would do it all again........

[lostalex]

I forgive him. You can't blame him for having such a high opinion of arabs to think they could embrace democracy. Only racists think we created chaos in the middle east, they think that all arabs need to be controlled by a dictator. i agree with tony that arabs are capable of democracy. i won't be like most on here that think they are all just savages.

Arabs are people too! you wouldn't think it the way most on here see arabs as just a wild horde that need to be controlled by tyrants.

[Livia]

I forgive him. You can't blame him for having such a high opinion of arabs to think they could embrace democracy. Only racists think we created chaos in the middle east, they think that all arabs need to be controlled by a dictator. i agree with tony that arabs are capable of democracy. i won't be like most on here that think they are all just savages.

Arabs are people too! you wouldn't think it the way most on here see arabs as just a wild horde that need to be controlled by tyrants.

The crux of this story is that he sent our soldiers into war on a big fat lie. Documents were doctored and the truth was dispensed with. We lost nearly 200 military personnel, not even counting the dead Iraqis. Your own army was well-equipped and ready for the conflict, ours were not. They had their funding stripped to the bone and yet Blair felt okay sending them into a war zone having to borrow kit off other countries' soldiers.

No one has said on this thread or anywhere else, that Arabs are savages. That's not what this is about. It's about being duped by a liar who went on to be a Middle East Peace Envoy. You couldn't make that sh1t up.

[DemolitionRed]

I forgive him. You can't blame him for having such a high opinion of arabs to think they could embrace democracy. Only racists think we created chaos in the middle east, they think that all arabs need to be controlled by a dictator. i agree with tony that arabs are capable of democracy. i won't be like most on here that think they are all just savages.

Arabs are people too! you wouldn't think it the way most on here see arabs as just a wild horde that need to be controlled by tyrants.

Your entire post is odd and makes not a jot of sense.
Are you saying that Bush and Blair were trying to create democracy?

You don’t create democracy by mass murder. It was never about creating a democracy, it was all about creating and re-structuring a new government who would be more compliant with the West. Creating a democracy doesn't include the needless murder of hundreds of thousands of people.

[joeysteele]

Report findings or no eport findings, there is much more to Criminal Liability than deliberate intent, there is Criminal Neglect - and on that score Smiling Boy Blair is emphatically guilty.

Oh I agree with you, I personally think he has much to answer for and your points are strong all through as to Blair

However what this report has done is not support any real'criminal' wrongdoing.
Therefore I cannot see him being forced to do more now.
As wrong, and a big wrong that is, to that too.

[the truth]

Oh I agree with you, I personally think he has much to answer for and your points are strong all through as to Blair

However what this report has done is not support any real'criminal' wrongdoing.
Therefore I cannot see him being forced to do more now.
As wrong, and a big wrong that is, to that too.

He is a war criminal and this is mere;y another stepping stone to the hague for this psyychopath

[the truth]

The late great tony benn put it into a nutshell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Dz3TM2GCA

[mr rochester]

Bush and Blair are war criminals, have always said that.

[joeysteele]

David Davis is trying to put down a contempt motion against Tony Blair this week.
It doesn't mean that much or carry any real weight but I agree it is worth doing .

[the truth]

even two jabs two jags prescott says he is ashamed of it and it was illegal he also praise corbyn for apologising on behalf of the labour party

[the truth]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-john-prescott-says-tony-blair-led-uk-into-illegal-war-in-iraq-a7129106.html

[joeysteele]

even two jabs two jags prescott says he is ashamed of it and it was illegal he also praise corbyn for apologising on behalf of the labour party

He has indeed, that actually surprised me as to both.

[the truth]

He has indeed, that actually surprised me as to both.

prescott for all his many flaws his usually a pretty straight shooter, this is a serious killer blow to the vile tony bliar. as for gordon brown ? he has said absolutely nothing, his reputation will also collapse the longer he supports that illegal decision

[Kizzy]

Confidence will never be restored, because they are still doing the exact same thing :/

'Tony Blair did long-term damage to trust in politics when he put forward a case for war that went beyond the “facts of the case”, the author of the scathing official report into the Iraq War has said.

Sir John Chilcot, who has remained silent on the report since its publication in July, told a panel of senior MPs be believed it would take many years to repair the harm the former prime minister’s actions had caused.

After an inquiry lasting seven years, the Chilcot report found that former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein posed “no imminent threat” at the time of the invasion of his country in 2003, and the war was unleashed on the basis of “flawed” intelligence.

Its publication led to calls for the prosecution of Mr Blair, but the former premier insisted that, while he felt sorrow for those whose loved ones died, he stood by his decision to commit Britain to the US-led military action.

Asked if trust in politics had been corroded because MPs were told things that could not reasonably be supported by the evidence, Chilcot told the House of Commons liaison committee: “I think when a government or the leader of a government presents a case with all the powers of advocacy that he or she can command, and in doing so goes beyond what the facts of the case and the basic analysis of that can support, then it does damage politics, yes.”

He told MPs he “can only imagine” it would take a long time to repair the trust.

Chilcot said Blair’s decision to describe the threat the Hussein regime posed as imminent had been the “best possible inflection” of the evidence he had.

“A speech was made in advocate’s terms and putting the best possible inflection on the description that he used,” he said.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/nov/02/pmqs-may-corbyn-chilcot-hammond-to-adopt-flexible-fiscal-targets-in-autumn-statement-politics-live

[Kizzy]

Chilcot says witnesses subjected to the Maxwellisation process respected the confidentiality of the process. And they also responded within a reasonable time, he says. He says one or two asked for extra time, but they had a lot of material to read.

Facebook Twitter Google plus
8m ago
16:24
Q: Did any of the witnesses offered the chance to respond to the draft report water it down?

Chilcot says the inquiry thought it was important that witnesses had the chance to respond to the draft. This process (Maxwellisation) was essential for fairness. But it also improved the report, he says.

He says the Maxwellisation did not hold the process up, because while witnesses were being consulted, the inquiry team carried on working on other matters.

What the heck is 'maxwellisation'?

[Kizzy]

'Andrew Tyrie says it looks like a war that was pushed through by one man. Therefore you need to apportion blame accordingly.

Tyrie quotes paragraph 617 in the executive summary, saying: “At no stage did ministers or senior officials commission the systematic evaluation of different options, incorporating detailed analysis of risk and UK capabilities, military and civilian, which should have been required before the UK committed to any course of action in Iraq.” He suggests Blair was to blame for that.

Chilcot says anyone who could have commissioned an evaluation should have done so.'

Same old same old.... But there was a vote in parliament, and our representatives voted for it... on what evidence? None.
So no change there then, just media hype political bluster and nothing else.