USA: Dallas : 5 Police Officers Shot Dead

[arista]

Live on CNNHD,
FoxnewsHD


This is the backlash, I assume,

9:34PM time in Dallas Now


it was Protest
but they are unsure how many shooters
Early Stage

A Business Area,
New reports the shooter is in Omni hotel (CNNHD) 9:57PM CT
they say 20 shots were fired.

[Jack_]

Who was it on here earlier who said if the US didn't sort out their issues with police brutality and racism soon it would spiral into bigger problems that included attacks on officers themselves? Looks like you're right already

Something has to give, it's a problem that's gone on far too long

[arista]

Who was it on here earlier who said if the US didn't sort out their issues with police brutality and racism soon it would spiral into bigger problems that included attacks on officers themselves? Looks like you're right already

Something has to give, it's a problem that's gone on far too long

Swat are there now
any Shooters will be arrested or Shot Dead.

[arista]

If I was in Charge
I would tell Everyone to go home
or be arrested

As we need to get these peace folk out of the way.....


Law And Order
must take effect

[BBfanUSA]

Who was it on here earlier who said if the US didn't sort out their issues with police brutality and racism soon it would spiral into bigger problems that included attacks on officers themselves? Looks like you're right already

Something has to give, it's a problem that's gone on far too long

I seriously fear that if Trump is elected, that it may ignite a civil war in this country that won't end well for either side.

[arista]

I seriously fear that if Trump is elected, that it may ignite a civil war in this country that won't end well for either side.



No Civil War with Trump
He will unite USA Workers.


The Last Civil War
we were there in the 1700's

[arista]

Evil Sniper Gang (2)
shot dead 3 Police Officers


CNNHD Live

[Shaun]

What's the bet that it takes police lives lost for there to be any change in gun laws?

[arista]

What's the bet that it takes police lives lost for there to be any change in gun laws?


NO the Reverse


More Guns

Evil Sniper Kilers
must be killed

[Xtopher]

I hate it here.

[arista]

1 Evil Sniper is trapped
with Police getting closer


Take Him Down Fellas

[arista]

I hate it here.

Xtopher its a blip
things will get better


young tibbers :
Its a Great Nation to Work in
Florida has many places that want Brits
Working Hard there.


NYC and LA
Fantastic places
you must Visit
can change your outlook
make your more positive

[Xtopher]

4th just passed. CNN reported.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who was it on here earlier who said if the US didn't sort out their issues with police brutality and racism soon it would spiral into bigger problems that included attacks on officers themselves? Looks like you're right already

Something has to give, it's a problem that's gone on far too long

It was me who said if people start trial by social media it leads to hysteria and mob justice

[arista]

Well Done SkyNewsHD
telling the Young watching
a Gararge (USA)
in the UK means a Multi Storey Car Park


Pathetic Steph
bbc1breakfast
just said in a Garage
(no translation to what we call it in the UK)

[Liberty4eva]

I'll bet Black Lives is happy with the 4 deaths.

[hijaxers]

OMG just seeing this on Sky 4Police officers dead 7 more shot 3 arrested and 1 still shooting . This is shocking !

[Crimson Dynamo]

black members of the public have also been shot by these mob justice morons

[hijaxers]

One of the snipers is a woman !

Another officer has died

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

This is what happens when you're hopeless and you know that nobody has been listening or ever will listen. Instead, they are focused on telling why you are wrong about your feelings and what you've witnessed.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Since Malcom ex black people have been talking about police brutality and still no progress and there never will be. Nobody cares.

[Josy]

Well this isn't going to solve anything is it, even more lives lost needlessly.

[Cherie]

Well this isn't going to solve anything is it, even more lives lost needlessly.

No..Every life matters

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Well this isn't going to solve anything is it, even more lives lost needlessly.

What is though? They loved Malcom X and MLK but only listen to certain parts of their speeches and ignored the other parts including brutality. If even they couldn't be heard what the heck else can be done?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

No..Every life matters

Yea every life matters so why did they give zero ****s when poorer people are unlawfully killed!

[Josy]

What is though? They loved Malcom X and MLK but only listen to certain parts of their speeches and ignored the other parts including brutality. If even they couldn't be heard what the heck else can be done?

I don't know what is, I don't have the answers. What I do know for a fact is that more lives being lost is NOT going to help or solve anything.

[kirklancaster]

Who was it on here earlier who said if the US didn't sort out their issues with police brutality and racism soon it would spiral into bigger problems that included attacks on officers themselves? Looks like you're right already

Something has to give, it's a problem that's gone on far too long

Ithink it was me Jack:
kirklancaster's Avatar

"I am not specifically referring to this video or any other, but the USA DOES have a very serious and increasing problem with members of its various Police Departments EXECUTING black people - including OAP's AND children - when there are NO justifiable reasons to do so.

It is becoming embarrassing the repeated number of times that such unlawful and heartbreaking 'murders' do not even result in any type of 'Official' investigations, and even more shameful when such an investigation is carried out, only for the inevitable 'whitewashed' verdict of 'No Case To Answer' to be given.

IF the USA Government does not ADDRESS this untenable and SHAMEFUL practice soon, REAL violence WILL erupt upon their streets as the more frustrated militant black community - tired of holding out for justice to be done - take the CORRUPT law into their own hands.

Anyone DENYING that the US police ARE executing - largely - unharmed and helpless victims, needs a reality check.

If it was the British Police shooting - largely - unarmed and helpless IMMIGRANT victims, there would be a HUE and CRY of protest which would be heard around the world.

WHY is the USA so deaf to the cries of the black community?"
__________________

It is so tragic that it has come to this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

sorry Kirk but you are being judge and jury again, just adding to the hysteria

If you have legal evidence for " US police ARE executing - largely - unharmed and helpless victims"

Post it here

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

So people understand this new thing and the concept of #bluelivesmatter but somehow the concept of #blacklivesmatter is a foreign language and is counter attacked with alllivesmatter hm look at that. ��

[Niamh.]

This is what happens when you're hopeless and you know that nobody has been listening or ever will listen. Instead, they are focused on telling why you are wrong about your feelings and what you've witnessed.

I watched that film Straight Outta Compton a couple of days ago and that touched on the Rodney King murder, that was way back in 1991 and it seems not to have changed at all since then, it's shameful really. What is the solution? I understand your frustration with the it

[Toy Soldier]

I've never understood why people take such issue with the term "black lives matter". It's almost like people get defensive about it, like "what about me??". Personally, I've always considered the slogan to be about saying "black lives matter too". A lot of people seem to take it as "Only black lives matter" but I don't think anyone has ever been saying that?

And yes I also agree that this sort of escalation was inevitable. For those saying "well this won't help anything"... That's not really the point. The point is that it's reaching breaking point and people are snapping. They don't think it will help, but they don't think that ANYTHING will help. When people feel unheard, powerless and under attack it is only a matter of time before they snap.

The absolute worst thing you can do is "pull an LT", throw your head in the sand and demand to see "concrete evidence" of a link before you will even acknowledge the legitimacy of people's grievances. This is what I've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. When there is a clear escalation in tensions in any situation you HAVE to acknowledge it and try to address it quickly before it rolls completely out of control. This is a lesson that Britain should be learning from the US right now, before we learn it ourselves the hard way.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I watched that film Straight Oughta Compton a couple of days ago and that touched on the Rodney King murder, that was way back in 1991 and it seems not to have changed at all since then, it's shameful really. What is the solution? I understand your frustration with the it

Thank you, it's just so sad. And now people will use this latest incident to further look away from where the anger stems from. Many murderers today get their motives looked into which they conclude is mental disability. Will they care to look into where this anger stems from and actually do something? Doubt it. Of course I absolutely disagree with killing cops.

The solution is that they need to listen and actually acknowledge that here is a problem with racial profiling and how cops treats people differently. Heck if we go as far back as the OJ case even the cop on trial was caught on tape saying that he targeted black people and at times planted evidence against them. It's a thing. It's the same reason many racists don't like to be called racists, they don't like to acknowledge that part of them because it makes them a bad person. Cops and people like to believe that they're all good cops and that they truly are there to serve the people for your best interest. Acknowledging this completely destroys that serving your country slogan and they hate it. Doesn't mean they're all bad, but when they're bad they're bad and those cops protecting them are also bad.

[kirklancaster]

I have said this before elsewhere, but America has a huge bifurcated problem with these murders by cops.

The first is OPPORTUNITY.

Paedophiles flock towards jobs in Children's homes, Embezzlers towards Accountancy, and mentally unbalanced, racial extremists gravitate towards institutions where they can vent their hatred, and there is NO better institution to afford them that opportunity than a Police Department.

Once in, the covert racist may be surprised to quickly discover that he is 'at home', and that there are either other racists just like himself on the job who are tolerated, or that the ENTIRE department is racist in thought and word, if not deed.

There is NO basement level at which standards stop once they start to descend, and what was once shocking to yesteryear's society becomes the accepted norm to a subsequent generation, and 'so on and so forth'.

A long time ago, I used to play squash, and I remember on one occasion, being surprised by a group of men in the locker room who were laughing and howling as they told each other 'racist' jokes. The joke-telling and laughter stopped as I entered - probably because I am coloured - but it was NOT the jokes which surprised me, but the fact that NONE of the members concerned were 'low brows', but all well educated, 'well off' types who had NEVER hinted at any kind of 'racism' in the couple of years I had known them.

This 'locker room' racism, may be 'milder' to some participants than others, but it is often endemic wherever males congregate in institutions, and if nothing else, in the twisted mind of an extreme racist, it empowers him, gives him a sense of fraternity - however false that perception may be.

In some Police Departments in the USA, as the more 'moral' officers leave and new recruits are either racist or are corrupted by the prevailing 'locker room' mentality into accepting racism - over generations - that racism can 'creep out' of the 'locker room' and overtly become the status quo.

It is NOT unusual, therefore, for any combination of of two or three extremely racist officers, or two extremely racist officers and one accepting officer, to be out on patrol together.

Thus, we have the recipe for a tragedy.

"Hey boy - that nogger's tail light is out. Let's teach this mother fecker a lesson".

We all know the untenable truth of what happens next, but here's the other prong of that bifurcated problem:

APATHY.

Or as some cases attest; COMPLICITY.

In any country - there must be both a deterrent AND a punishment element to any sentencing for a crime, in order to dissuade perpetrators from committing that crime, but it seems from all the evidence of many years, that when it comes to the murder of black citizens by racist cops, that the USA does NOT even recognize that crime - in diametric opposition to the rest of the world.

THE USA AUTHORITIES MUST NOW FACE UP TO THE VERY REAL, VERY OVERT FACT, THAT RACIST COPS ARE VENTING THEIR HATRED OF BLACK PEOPLE USING POLICE ISSUE GUNS AS A WEAPON, AND THEIR UNIFORMS AND BADGES AS SHIELDS.

A LEGAL police gun and badge has replaced an ILLEGAL low overhanging branch and a noose as the racist extremists most favoured method of murdering the blackman.

It is sad, shocking but true, and UNTIL the American authorities RECOGNISE that these racist murders are occurring and publicly ADMIT as much, and start to PUNISH the perpetrators with lengthy jail sentences, then the terrible events unfolding right now in Dallas will be replicated all over America.

For blacks to vent their years of bitter frustration by randomly killing innocent police officers, is WRONG - no matter how understandable may be their bitter frustration - but the fingers of EVERY police department chief who has turned a blind eye or actually been complicit in these 'Murders of Blacks by Cops', are on those snipers triggers too.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I've never understood why people take such issue with the term "black lives matter". It's almost like people get defensive about it, like "what about me??". Personally, I've always considered the slogan to be about saying "black lives matter too". A lot of people seem to take it as "Only black lives matter" but I don't think anyone has ever been saying that?

And yes I also agree that this sort of escalation was inevitable. For those saying "well this won't help anything"... That's not really the point. The point is that it's reaching breaking point and people are snapping. They don't think it will help, but they don't think that ANYTHING will help. When people feel unheard, powerless and under attack it is only a matter of time before they snap.

The absolute worst thing you can do is "pull an LT", throw your head in the sand and demand to see "concrete evidence" of a link before you will even acknowledge the legitimacy of people's grievances. This is what I've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. When there is a clear escalation in tensions in any situation you HAVE to acknowledge it and try to address it quickly before it rolls completely out of control. This is a lesson that Britain should be learning from the US right now, before we learn it ourselves the hard way.

:clap1:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I have said this before elsewhere, but America has a huge bifurcated problem with these murders by cops.

The first is OPPORTUNITY.

Paedophiles flock towards jobs in Children's homes, Embezzlers towards Accountancy, and mentally unbalanced, racial extremists gravitate towards institutions where they can vent their hatred, and there is NO better institution to afford them that opportunity than a Police Department.

Once in, the covert racist may be surprised to quickly discover that he is 'at home', and that there are either other racists just like himself on the job who are tolerated, or that the ENTIRE department is racist in thought and word, if not deed.

There is NO basement level at which standards stop once they start to descend, and what was once shocking to yesteryear's society becomes the accepted norm to a subsequent generation, and 'so on and so forth'.

A long time ago, I used to play squash, and I remember on one occasion, being surprised by a group of men in the locker room who were laughing and howling as they told each other 'racist' jokes. The joke-telling and laughter stopped as I entered - probably because I am coloured - but it was NOT the jokes which surprised me, but the fact that NONE of the members concerned were 'low brows', but all well educated, 'well off' types who had NEVER hinted at any kind of 'racism' in the couple of years I had known them.

This 'locker room' racism, may be 'milder' to some participants than others, but it is often endemic wherever males congregate in institutions, and if nothing else, in the twisted mind of an extreme racist, it empowers him, gives him a sense of fraternity - however false that perception may be.

In some Police Departments in the USA, as the more 'moral' officers leave and new recruits are either racist or are corrupted by the prevailing 'locker room' mentality into accepting racism - over generations - that racism can 'creep out' of the 'locker room' and overtly become the status quo.

It is NOT unusual, therefore, for any combination of of two or three extremely racist officers, or two extremely racist officers and one accepting officer, to be out on patrol together.

Thus, we have the recipe for a tragedy.

"Hey boy - that nogger's tail light is out. Let's teach this mother fecker a lesson".

We all know the untenable truth of what happens next, but here's the other prong of that bifurcated problem:

APATHY.

Or as some cases attest; COMPLICITY.

In any country - there must be both a deterrent AND a punishment element to any sentencing for a crime, in order to dissuade perpetrators from committing that crime, but it seems from all the evidence of many years, that when it comes to the murder of black citizens by racist cops, that the USA does NOT even recognize that crime - in diametric opposition to the rest of the world.

THE USA AUTHORITIES MUST NOW FACE UP TO THE VERY REAL, VERY OVERT FACT, THAT RACIST COPS ARE VENTING THEIR HATRED OF BLACK PEOPLE USING POLICE ISSUE GUNS AS A WEAPON, AND THEIR UNIFORMS AND BADGES AS SHIELDS.

A LEGAL police gun and badge has replaced an ILLEGAL low overhanging branch and a noose as the racist extremists most favoured method of murdering the blackman.

It is sad, shocking but true, and UNTIL the American authorities RECOGNISE that these racist murders are occurring and publicly ADMIT as much, and start to PUNISH the perpetrators with lenghty jail sentences, then the terrible events unfolding right now in Dallas will be replicated all over America.

For blacks to vent their years of bitter frustration by randomly killing innocent police officers, is WRONG - no matter how understandable may be their bitter frustration - but the fingers of EVERY police department chief who has turned a blind eye or actually been complicit in these 'Murders of Blacks by Cops', are on those snipers triggers too.

If you don't preach. :bawling:


The cop badge was originally slave patrol badge.

[Niamh.]

Thank you, it's just so sad. And now people will use this latest incident to further look away from where the anger stems from. Many murderers today get their motives looked into which they conclude is mental disability. Will they care to look into where this anger stems from and actually do something? Doubt it. Of course I absolutely disagree with killing cops.

The solution is that they need to listen and actually acknowledge that here is a problem with racial profiling and how cops treats people differently. Heck if we go as far back as the OJ case even the cop on trial was caught on tape saying that he targeted black people and at times planted evidence against them. It's a thing. It's the same reason many racists don't like to be called racists, they don't like to acknowledge that part of them because it makes them a bad person. Cops and people like to believe that they're all good cops and that they truly are there to serve the people for your best interest. Acknowledging this completely destroys that serving your country slogan and they hate it. Doesn't mean they're all bad, but when they're bad they're bad and those cops protecting them are also bad.

yep, I agree with all that. The Cops should be trained differently and Racial profiling should be brought into their training as well(as in don't do it), it's like a vicious circle really, black people get targeted by Police so black people don't trust the Police and end up more hostile towards them because of that and then that "confirms" that thought that black people are bad and so it continues endlessly. A massive change in attitude and how the Police are taught to deal with people most especially black people is needed but that's never going to happen until the Police stop closing ranks and accept that change is needed

[Northern Monkey]

Let's hope these ****ers are all arrested or shot asap.RIP those poor people who died.

[arista]

Well this isn't going to solve anything is it, even more lives lost needlessly.


But they Confirmed the Hidden Evil Sniper
was Killed by SWAT


One arrested was a Woman


Lock It Down
Get the Evil Sniper Gang
arrested or Shot DEAD


Obama wants that

[_Tom_]

Thoughts are with the fallen and the people of Dallas on this terribly tragic day.

[Northern Monkey]

I've never understood why people take such issue with the term "black lives matter". It's almost like people get defensive about it, like "what about me??". Personally, I've always considered the slogan to be about saying "black lives matter too". A lot of people seem to take it as "Only black lives matter" but I don't think anyone has ever been saying that?

And yes I also agree that this sort of escalation was inevitable. For those saying "well this won't help anything"... That's not really the point. The point is that it's reaching breaking point and people are snapping. They don't think it will help, but they don't think that ANYTHING will help. When people feel unheard, powerless and under attack it is only a matter of time before they snap.

The absolute worst thing you can do is "pull an LT", throw your head in the sand and demand to see "concrete evidence" of a link before you will even acknowledge the legitimacy of people's grievances. This is what I've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. When there is a clear escalation in tensions in any situation you HAVE to acknowledge it and try to address it quickly before it rolls completely out of control. This is a lesson that Britain should be learning from the US right now, before we learn it ourselves the hard way.Well why don't they just make their slogan 'black lives matter too' to stop any confusion?Having a slogan like that which implies that only black lives matter is bound to cause controversy.
Some of these blm people actually do think that only black lives matter and are racist.Those are the ones who give blm the bad reputation they have and detract from their cause.Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that.

[Tom4784]

It's terrible but unavoidable, it was only a matter of time until the backlash against the police turn violent and it's a tragedy that these officers, who were likely some of the good ones, had to pay for the crimes of the corrupt ones that are protected by the system.

Something has got to give, innocent civilians and good police officers are being killed by a lack of action on the government's part.

[Niamh.]

Well why don't they just make their slogan 'black lives matter too' to stop any confusion?Having a slogan like that which implies that only black lives matter is bound to cause controversy.
Some of these blm people actually do think that only black lives matter and are racist.Those are the ones who give blm the bad reputation they have and detract from their cause.Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that.

No it doesn't

and in regards to this "Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that." The big difference here is that the Police are supposed to be there to uphold the law, serve and protect, they're not supposed to be the criminals

[Northern Monkey]

No it doesn't

and in regards to this "Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that." The big difference here is that the Police are supposed to be there to uphold the law, serve and protect, they're not supposed to be the criminals

And the police were out there protecting the protesters so they could have their protest before they started getting killed and nobody is 'supposed' to be criminals but those elements are in all walks of life.Most police are good.It's only a minority who are incompetent.
If they just made their slogan Black lives matter too then nobody would ever take issue with it.Why have one that at best causes confusion and at worst implies that black lives matter more.No wonder people reply with 'all lives matter' because well...they do.

[Tom4784]

I've never understood why people take such issue with the term "black lives matter". It's almost like people get defensive about it, like "what about me??". Personally, I've always considered the slogan to be about saying "black lives matter too". A lot of people seem to take it as "Only black lives matter" but I don't think anyone has ever been saying that?

And yes I also agree that this sort of escalation was inevitable. For those saying "well this won't help anything"... That's not really the point. The point is that it's reaching breaking point and people are snapping. They don't think it will help, but they don't think that ANYTHING will help. When people feel unheard, powerless and under attack it is only a matter of time before they snap.

The absolute worst thing you can do is "pull an LT", throw your head in the sand and demand to see "concrete evidence" of a link before you will even acknowledge the legitimacy of people's grievances. This is what I've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. When there is a clear escalation in tensions in any situation you HAVE to acknowledge it and try to address it quickly before it rolls completely out of control. This is a lesson that Britain should be learning from the US right now, before we learn it ourselves the hard way.

Some white people take issue with BLM because they're used to being the majority and being catered for, when they see something like BLM, BET/MOBO awards and Black History month, they have a reaction similar to that of a spoiled child who's seen another kid with a toy they haven't got and they want it. What these people don't understand is that the other 11 months are White History months, that every channel and award ceremony mostly caters to white people. Pretty much everything in the rest caters to white people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I heard LBC reporting today that the guy shot in the car with his girlfriend was only reaching for his licence

They reported that as a fact

Unbelievable but this is half the problem

They took one report from the girlfriend and reported it as a fact. It is not. We have not heard the police side. But all round AMerica people will be saying "omg this poor guy just reached for his licence and they shot him"

this is what happens when we do not wait for justice and law

and now we have the dallas murders that are just an extension of this misinformation, prejudice and hysteria

[arista]

It's terrible but unavoidable, it was only a matter of time until the backlash against the police turn violent and it's a tragedy that these officers, who were likely some of the good ones, had to pay for the crimes of the corrupt ones that are protected by the system.

Something has got to give, innocent civilians and good police officers are being killed by a lack of action on the government's part.


Yes Dezzy
Troops will now get ready , again


Obama is Right


Evil Sniper Gangs are being hunted now

[arista]

I heard LBC reporting today that the guy shot in the car with his girlfriend was only reaching for his licence

They reported that as a fact

Unbelievable but this is half the problem

They took one report from the girlfriend and reported it as a fact. It is not. We have not heard the police side. But all round AMerica people will be saying "omg this poor guy just reached for his licence and they shot him"

this is what happens when we do not wait for justice and law

and now we have the dallas murders that are just an extension of this misinformation, prejudice and hysteria



Yes the Evil Sniper Gangs
can shoot from up High
Police had no chance.


The Protesters had nothing to do with this Evil Gang

[Crimson Dynamo]

The protesters are protesting over misinformation and hysteria and are part of the problem

[Toy Soldier]

Well why don't they just make their slogan 'black lives matter too' to stop any confusion?Having a slogan like that which implies that only black lives matter is bound to cause controversy.
Some of these blm people actually do think that only black lives matter and are racist.Those are the ones who give blm the bad reputation they have and detract from their cause.Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that.

The thing is, it doesn't imply that, not to anyone who isn't already pre-conditioned to read it as that.

What about "Votes For Women"? That was a HUGE movement. Should men have been up-in-arms saying "No no no no, votes for EVERYONE that should be". Did anyone think that "Votes For Women" was asking for votes to be ONLY for women? No. Everyone knew, by context, that it meant "Votes for women too". That should be just as obvious with "Black Lives Matter". When people use that slogan they are quite obviously NOT saying "...and white / asian / any other lives don't matter".

[Niamh.]

And the police were out there protecting the protesters so they could have their protest before they started getting killed and nobody is 'supposed' to be criminals but those elements are in all walks of life.Most police are good.It's only a minority who are incompetent.
If they just made their slogan Black lives matter too then nobody would ever take issue with it.Why have one that at best causes confusion and at worst implies that black lives matter more.No wonder people reply with 'all lives matter' because well...they do.

You really think? I think you're wrong about that, i think people would still have a problem with it, i don't think it's the slogans wording that's the issue, i think it's the fact people want to dilute it by preaching "equality for whites too" and hide the fact that there is a problem

[Niamh.]

The thing is, it doesn't imply that, not to anyone who isn't already pre-conditioned to read it as that.

What about "Votes For Women"? That was a HUGE movement. Should men have been up-in-arms saying "No no no no, votes for EVERYONE that should be". Did anyone think that "Votes For Women" was asking for votes to be ONLY for women? No. Everyone knew, by context, that it meant "Votes for women too". That should be just as obvious with "Black Lives Matter". When people use that slogan they are quite obviously NOT saying "...and white / asian / any other lives don't matter".

So much truth :clap2:

[Alf]

I suppose it takes the attention of Hillary Clinton.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/08/04/360F3C5400000578-3680097-image-a-140_1467947234809.jpg
Well Done Fellas Killing the Evil Sniper

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/08/03/360F395000000578-3680097-image-a-134_1467946452583.jpg
The time before
the Evil Sniper Gang started Killing Police

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/08/04/360F3CE000000578-3680097-image-a-141_1467947239380.jpg
Hit The Deck
fella - stay safe

[Crimson Dynamo]

Arista 5 Police Officers have been killed

[arista]

Arista 5 Police Officers have been killed


Yes its Terrible Day

[Northern Monkey]

The thing is, it doesn't imply that, not to anyone who isn't already pre-conditioned to read it as that.

What about "Votes For Women"? That was a HUGE movement. Should men have been up-in-arms saying "No no no no, votes for EVERYONE that should be". Did anyone think that "Votes For Women" was asking for votes to be ONLY for women? No. Everyone knew, by context, that it meant "Votes for women too". That should be just as obvious with "Black Lives Matter". When people use that slogan they are quite obviously NOT saying "...and white / asian / any other lives don't matter".Now i know that you know that that is an incredibly bad comparison.

To anybody who first comes accross these two slogans when you read or hear them what do you think the first reactions are going to be in their mind?
I would opine that they are something very close to this:

Slogan - Votes for women. First reaction: 'oh can't women vote?'

Slogan - Black lives matter. First reaction: 'well yeah obviously,All lives matter'

You see 'votes for women' is self explanatory.Nothing more needs to be said.The slogan tells you that women don't have the vote already.
'Black lives matter' tells you nothing except possibly somebody thinks that black lives somehow seem to matter more than everyone else or why would it be said?
It's not until you research what Black Lives Matter is and get some context that you understand what they(some of them) are trying to say.
Simply adding 'too' to the end of that slogan would have the same impact as 'Votes for women'.It would immediately tell you that BLM are telling you that they believe they are oppressed.
Now i know you are intelligent and i know that you know the different connotations that these slogans imply so i was reluctant to type out all of this.
Whoever created the BLM slogan either knew that it would cause controversy and confusion and did it deliberately OR they were totally naive.I would bet of the former.

[Northern Monkey]

So much truth :clap2:

No,Just a deliberately bad comparison.

[Tom4784]

All this discussion over a name just distracts from the issue at hand.

It's incredibly self entitled to think that 'Black Lives Matter' means that no one else's does. White people aren't being routinely killed at the hands of the police that should be protecting them, we don't need a movement to tell us white lives matter, we're already the majority.

Honestly, white people should be thankful they don't need civil movements, not be jealous of them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Interesting that not one RIP in 3 pages

I guess as its the police "and they had it coming" no one cares

shocking but predictable

[Niamh.]

Now i know that you know that that is an incredibly bad comparison.

To anybody who first comes accross these two slogans when you read or hear them what do you think the first reactions are going to be in their mind?
I would opine that they are something very close to this:

Slogan - Votes for women. First reaction: 'oh can't women vote?'

Slogan - Black lives matter. First reaction: 'well yeah obviously,All lives matter'

You see 'votes for women' is self explanatory.Nothing more needs to be said.The slogan tells you that women don't have the vote already.
'Black lives matter' tells you nothing except possibly somebody thinks that black lives somehow seem to matter more than everyone else or why would it be said?
It's not until you research what Black Lives Matter is and get some context that you understand what they(some of them) are trying to say.
Simply adding 'too' to the end of that slogan would have the same impact as 'Votes for women'.It would immediately tell you that BLM are telling you that they believe they are oppressed.
Now i know you are intelligent and i know that you know the different connotations that these slogans imply so i was reluctant to type out all of this.
Whoever created the BLM slogan either knew that it would cause controversy and confusion and did it deliberately OR they were totally naive.I would bet of the former.

No you're so wrong about that. For someone to make a slogan like Black Lives Matter it's because they feel like they're being treated like they don't. ITILYT mentioned some new slogans popping up like GorillasLivesMatter, why was that? It was in reaction to that Gorilla being shot recently because people were feeling like Gorillas were being treated unfairly............. It's the same logic and no one seems to be totally confused by that at all

[Niamh.]

Interesting that not one RIP in 3 pages

I guess as its the police "and they had it coming" no one cares

shocking but predictable

No one said the Police had it coming ffs but isn't it wise to try and understand why it's come to something as extreme as this and try to discuss it so things like this are avoided in the future?

[Tom4784]

Interesting that not one RIP in 3 pages

I guess as its the police "and they had it coming" no one cares

shocking but predictable

I never say RIP to anyone, it's a useless and cold stock phrase that has no meaning to me.

I think it's a tragedy that these officers have been killed but ignoring why this has happened will only continue the cycle of violence.

[Northern Monkey]

No you're so wrong about that. For someone to make a slogan like Black Lives Matter it's because they feel like they're being treated like they don't. ITILYT mentioned some new slogans popping up like GorillasLivesMatter, why was that? It was in reaction to that Gorilla being shot recently because people were feeling like Gorillas were being treated unfairly............. It's the same logic and no one seems to be totally confused by that at all
If i am totally wrong then why are an awful lot of peoples first reaction to hearing Black Lives Matter that All lives matter?
The Gorrilla thing happened on the back of the BLM slogan so context was already established.

[Niamh.]

If i am totally wrong then why are an awful lot of peoples first reaction to hearing Black Lives Matter that All lives matter?
The Gorrilla thing happened on the back of the BLM slogan so context was already established.

Because they're trying to downplay the fact that there is actually a problem and Black peoples lives are treated as less important than white peoples

Re the Gorilla thing, well those people who made the slogan must have understood what BLM meant then :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Yea every life matters so why did they give zero ****s when poorer people are unlawfully killed!

And if every life matters why do many shrug at the sight of upturned boats in the med?... The truth is every life does not matter, and the sooner everyone removes the blinkers and sees this the better.

[Toy Soldier]

Now i know that you know that that is an incredibly bad comparison.

To anybody who first comes accross these two slogans when you read or hear them what do you think the first reactions are going to be in their mind?
I would opine that they are something very close to this:

Slogan - Votes for women. First reaction: 'oh can't women vote?'

Slogan - Black lives matter. First reaction: 'well yeah obviously,All lives matter'

You see 'votes for women' is self explanatory.Nothing more needs to be said.The slogan tells you that women don't have the vote already.
'Black lives matter' tells you nothing except possibly somebody thinks that black lives somehow seem to matter more than everyone else or why would it be said?
It's not until you research what Black Lives Matter is and get some context that you understand what they(some of them) are trying to say.
Simply adding 'too' to the end of that slogan would have the same impact as 'Votes for women'.It would immediately tell you that BLM are telling you that they believe they are oppressed.
Now i know you are intelligent and i know that you know the different connotations that these slogans imply so i was reluctant to type out all of this.
Whoever created the BLM slogan either knew that it would cause controversy and confusion and did it deliberately OR they were totally naive.I would bet of the former.
I think we simply disagree on this one NM; I think the obvious response to the slogan "Black Lives Matter" would be "Oh... Do some people believe that black lives don't matter or matter less?".

By your logic, it's just as valid to assume that someone politically completely unaware would see a "votes for women!" banner and say, "Hey, why only women??". What you're pointing out is that people were not naive to the context; they knew that it was just women who didn't have the vote. There is nothing IN the message that explains the context, it is assumed as "known".

Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter. Taken in political context, the "too" should easily be implied and the argument that people are getting it wrong "because they are naive to the situation" and don't know that BLM is protesting an inequality is dubious at best. I just don't think it's the case. There is no widespread misunderstanding of the message that needs fixing, those who don't like hearing BLM simply have a problem with the statement full stop, and the supposed "misunderstanding" is a strawman,for the mostpart.

In my opinion adding "... too" is not a simple solution at all. It makes the statement sound like a whine and dilutes it's impact. It takes the power out of it. Definitely not worth it for the (very few) who might be failing to understand the message.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one said the Police had it coming ffs but isn't it wise to try and understand why it's come to something as extreme as this and try to discuss it so things like this are avoided in the future?

It is mob justice from one side of the story, thick people who cannot wait for justice

Horrible

[arista]

All this discussion over a name just distracts from the issue at hand.

It's incredibly self entitled to think that 'Black Lives Matter' means that no one else's does. White people aren't being routinely killed at the hands of the police that should be protecting them, we don't need a movement to tell us white lives matter, we're already the majority.

Honestly, white people should be thankful they don't need civil movements, not be jealous of them.


Yes But the President says its Wrong.

The Suspects they have said they will Kill White Police Officers

This must End

[Jordan.]

All this discussion over a name just distracts from the issue at hand.

It's incredibly self entitled to think that 'Black Lives Matter' means that no one else's does. White people aren't being routinely killed at the hands of the police that should be protecting them, we don't need a movement to tell us white lives matter, we're already the majority.

Honestly, white people should be thankful they don't need civil movements, not be jealous of them.

Statistics would say otherwise. I guess it's easier to be oblivious since it doesn't get plastered all over social media every time it happens though.

[Northern Monkey]

Because they're trying to downplay the fact that there is actually a problem and Black peoples lives are treated as less important than white peoples

Re the Gorilla thing, well those people who made the slogan must have understood what BLM meant then :shrug:
Some people are trying to downplay that there is a problem with the US police.Some.Not everybody or even a majority.
I don't really see where you're going with the gorilla thing.
That slogan was made well after the black lives matter one was already well established and is obvs just a copy of it to do with gorillas.
Why not just add 'too' to the end of BLM so it's perfectly clear what they are trying to say?

[Niamh.]

Some people are trying to downplay that there is a problem with the US police.Some.Not everybody or even a majority.
I don't really see where you're going with the gorilla thing.
That slogan was made well after the black lives matter one was already well established and is obvs just a copy of it to do with gorillas.
Why not just add 'too' to the end of BLM so it's perfectly clear what they are trying to say?

Why? to appease the white folk?

[Northern Monkey]

Why? to appease the white folk?Well when people respond by saying that all lives matter then they are ones who will bitch about it.It's a self created problem by this group.

[Niamh.]

Well when people respond by saying that all lives matter then they are ones who will bitch about it.It's a self created problem by this group.

I don't believe that the majority of people who respond with "alllivesmatter" were actually confused at all

[Northern Monkey]

I think we simply disagree on this one NM; I think the obvious response to the slogan "Black Lives Matter" would be "Oh... Do some people believe that black lives don't matter or matter less?".

By your logic, it's just as valid to assume that someone politically completely unaware would see a "votes for women!" banner and say, "Hey, why only women??". What you're pointing out is that people were not naive to the context; they knew that it was just women who didn't have the vote. There is nothing IN the message that explains the context, it is assumed as "known".

Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter. Taken in political context, the "too" should easily be implied and the argument that people are getting it wrong "because they are naive to the situation" and don't know that BLM is protesting an inequality is dubious at best. I just don't think it's the case. There is no widespread misunderstanding of the message that needs fixing, those who don't like hearing BLM simply have a problem with the statement full stop, and the supposed "misunderstanding" is a strawman,for the mostpart.

In my opinion adding "... too" is not a simple solution at all. It makes the statement sound like a whine and dilutes it's impact. It takes the power out of it. Definitely not worth it for the (very few) who might be failing to understand the message.

"Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter".

Should apply doesn't mean it does though.You actually have to research what BLM are about to understand it.
I'd say Votes for women is pretty self explanatory.
Or maybe not everybody has your intelligence to read between the lines.
Can you honestly say that the first time you heard the phrase Black Lives Matter without any context that you knew what it was about?
I did'nt.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't believe that the majority of people who respond with "alllivesmatter" were actually confused at all

I would say that alot of people did'nt know wtf it was and just saw a group of people shouting Black Lives Matter at them and they were like 'well yeah of course,So does everyone elses'

[Niamh.]

I would say that alot of people did'nt know wtf it was and just saw a group of people shouting Black Lives Matter at them and they were like 'well yeah of course,So does everyone elses'

I think we're never going to agree on it

[Toy Soldier]

"Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter".

Should apply doesn't mean it does though.You actually have to research what BLM are about to understand it.
I'd say Votes for women is pretty self explanatory.
Or maybe not everybody has your intelligence to read between the lines.
Can you honestly say that the first time you heard the phrase Black Lives Matter without any context that you knew what it was about?
I did'nt.
If anyone has to research the context of black lives matter to know what it's about then they are either children, or too politically unaware to be confidently engaging in the debate in the first place (in other words meaning they SHOULD look it up, rather than being reactionary and defensive).

[Jack_]

The people who scream 'all lives matter' are the same idiots who ask 'where's straight pride?!?!' or 'when's black history month?!'

They just miss the point completely

[Crimson Dynamo]

What most people miss is that watching a video is not evidence of anything

[Northern Monkey]

If anyone has to research the context of black lives matter to know what it's about then they are either children, or too politically unaware to be confidently engaging in the debate in the first place (in other words meaning they SHOULD look it up, rather than being reactionary and defensive).

Well now yeah most people know what it is.They did'nt at first though when the all lives matter thing happened as a response.They just saw people shouting 'Black lives matter' at them on Twitter and they were like well yeah so does my white/latino/asian/insert ethnicity life.Not everybody who goes on Twitter and Facebook are politically minded or aware.

[Toy Soldier]

What most people miss is that watching a video is not evidence of anything
Watching a video is not but seeing repeated and similar incidents of something happening, and the majority of them coming from the same country, is enough to form a "bigger picture" view. This is a running issue for you LT... A (mistaken) impression that social opinion is (or should be) forged in a court of law.

[Northern Monkey]

I think we're never going to agree on it

You have to remember that it's not just non-blacks that think the BLM slogan is controversial and a bad slogan.There are many many black people saying it too.Ones who are obvs not involved with the group and who are against them for their behaviour,racism and extreme views.

[Toy Soldier]

You have to remember that it's not just non-blacks that think the BLM slogan is controversial and a bad slogan.There are many many black people saying it too.Ones who are obvs not involved with the group and who are against them for their behaviour,racism and extreme views.
There will be aspects of it that have been hijacked by extremists but unfortunately that's true of all movements,and is really a separate debate.

[Munchkins]

Why am i not surprised many are using this as an excuse to completely discredit the blacklivesmatter movement and tar them all with the same brush
This was exactly the situation they needed, so they could exploit
Yes this is a tragedy, but this does not discredit the amount of police brutality towards POC in America. Both are tragic
Seeing many now trying to label blacklivesmatter as an extremist movement is just tragic

[Niamh.]

This is a good article re the slogan

http://fusion.net/story/170591/the-next-time-someone-says-all-lives-matter-show-them-these-5-paragraphs/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Watching a video is not but seeing repeated and similar incidents of something happening, and the majority of them coming from the same country, is enough to form a "bigger picture" view. This is a running issue for you LT... A (mistaken) impression that social opinion is (or should be) forged in a court of law.

No, its a mistaken social opinion that is based on a fact that good police videos do not exist as a medium generally but apparent bad ones do and thus young people think that "omg the police are awful"

Its no surprise that this has become an issue with the rose of social media


People are demonstrating and killing innocent people based on videos with zero context or recourse from one side

despicable

[Toy Soldier]

No, its a mistaken social opinion that is based on a fact that good police videos do not exist as a medium generally but apparent bad ones do and thus young people think that "omg the police are awful"

Its no surprise that this has become an issue with the rose of social media


People are demonstrating and killing innocent people based on videos with zero context or recourse from one side

despicable
You're over-simplifying, acknowledging that the police force in the US has some major issues that need to be addressed is not the same as saying "OMG the police are awful". The police are neither awful nor perfect. You're just as guilty of refusing to see the middle ground as those who would demonise them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The chief of police in Dallas says they used a bomb on a robot to kill one of the snipers

[Livia]

The people who scream 'all lives matter' are the same idiots who ask 'where's straight pride?!?!' or 'when's black history month?!'

They just miss the point completely

Are you saying that all lives don't matter?

I'm so tired of this sectioning off of society... All lives matter, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Jew, gentile, Muslim, transgender.... ALL lives.

[Livia]

The chief of police in Dallas says they used a bomb on a robot to kill one of the snipers

I think that referring to these people as "snipers" gives them a kind of glamour they don't deserve.

[Jack_]

Are you saying that all lives don't matter?

I'm so tired of this sectioning off of society... All lives matter, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Jew, gentile, Muslim, transgender.... ALL lives.

No, and nobody who is a part of the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that all lives don't matter either. Rather they are saying that black people's lives do.

It is such a simple concept for people to get their head around. There is a massive issue in the US with black men and women disproportionately being killed at the hands of police officers. It has to stop. The movement is campaigning for acknowledgement that this is an issue, and that the lives of the black people who are being killed in these incidents matter just as much as a white person's or anyone else's and that they must not be ignored.

It is not a competition, it is not a 'our lives are more important than yours!', it's a 'our lives are just as important as yours!'. Nothing more, nothing less

These same idiots who scream the obvious 'all lives matter' statement miss the concept completely, in much the same way they don't understand why straight pride doesn't need to be a thing and nor does white history month. These movements are about the recognition of oppressed minorities, not a chance for them to say they're better than anyone else. Just that they are the same.

It's very straightforward.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, and nobody who is a part of the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that all lives don't matter either. Rather they are saying that black people's lives do.

It is such a simple concept for people to get their head around. There is a massive issue in the US with black men and women disproportionately being killed at the hands of police officers. It has to stop. The movement is campaigning for acknowledgement that this is an issue, and that the lives of the black people who are being killed in these incidents matter just as much as a white person's or anyone else's and that they must not be ignored.

It is not a competition, it is not a 'our lives are more important than yours!', it's a 'our lives are just as important as yours!'. Nothing more, noting less

These same idiots who scream the obvious 'all lives matter' statement miss the concept completely, in much the same way they don't understand why straight pride doesn't need to be a thing and nor does white history month. These movements are about the recognition of oppressed minorities, not a chance for them to say they're better than anyone else. Just that they are the same.

It's very straightforward.

Its not its based on a crooked premis that police officers dont care about black people. There is scant evidence for this.

[Jack_]

Its not its based on a crooked premis that police officers dont care about black people. There is scant evidence for this.

You are trying way too hard LT, I have no idea why people buy into what you say but hey

[Crimson Dynamo]

You are trying way too hard LT, I have no idea why people buy into what you say but hey

I am sorry that you seem to find it difficult to believe that you may be wrong about things

[Jack_]

I am sorry that you seem to find it difficult to believe that you may be wrong about things

Nope, just that obvious baiting is obvious :joker:

No sane person denies this is an issue so that's why it's BS, sorry LT but your faux defence of the police anytime there's a negative thread about them doesn't wash with me

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/16/07/536x302/ca533962a684a51d83771b0a2512afd834f0c4faf54870fb30 da695a7c76340e_3739901.jpg?20160708120618


http://e3.365dm.com/16/07/536x302/0bb9cf2ec3b3c1c5ba04cf34eca09eba6d2da709514c591e11 25d3263571ef7a_3739899.jpg?20160708120438
Early paper before the total of Dead went up to 5

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nope, just that obvious baiting is obvious :joker:

No sane person denies this is an issue so that's why it's BS, sorry LT but your faux defence of the police anytime there's a negative thread about them doesn't wash with me

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

[Jack_]

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

The evidence and facts actually stack up against your pretend argument, but you know that already

[Crimson Dynamo]

The evidence and facts actually stack up against your pretend argument, but you know that already

well when they arrive i will let you know

[empire]

there is a section of black americans, who want to start a race war with white americans, this has been hidden for years, the number of white americans killed by the cops is at the same number as the black americans, the media is still hushing this up, even so, black policeman have killed alot of there fellow black brothers, the whole thing has been hijacked by black racial supremacy groups, what the public should of said from day one, cops who kill unarmed people, should face the death row, but because these guys who just killed 5 police officers have just made the situation worse,

[microscope]

Isn't it usually the case that when a police officer arrests or assaults or kills a black man or woman, they tend to play the race card straight away. They say "You killed him/her coz he/she was black". They say "You picked on him/her and arrested him/her coz he/she was black". They seem to interpret the situation the way that they see it through their rose-tinted spectacles, as if they can mind-read or something!!

Generally any police officer will arrest, assault or kill a man or a women who they believe is breaking the law and may be a danger to others, regardless of skin colour. The only racism is in the eye of the beholder or spectator who is black themselves and thinks every non-black police officer is racist.

The black man who went out with premeditated murder on his mind is nothing more than a murdering scumbag than needs a torturous type of capital punishment to make him suffer. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever or any other vigilante types who go after police officers who are out there risking their lives every day to save other people, just because they get it into their heads that their arresting actions are always racially motivated.

[Ninastar]

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

What I find strange is that more white people have actually been killed by cops than any other race this year, yet no one seems to be protesting over that? :shrug:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

[Northern Monkey]

From the news it seems like he was a lone nutter.Ex military.They found bomb making materials and rifles in his home.He said he was "upset with white people" and he "wanted to kill white people specially officers".They believe he was a lone gun man and it was a peaceful protest.

[Maru]

This is #2 for us. We went through it with the first time with Goforth. My husband works for the Sheriff's Office and is a detention officer doing CIRT for the Mental Health Unit at the jail. I have another close family in the same building as well and we know a bunch that are on the streets.

The gas station where the Goforth shooting occurred is a place our close friend frequented while on patrol and it very easily could've been him. The Goforth's lived down the road and we are in the same district. It affected a lot of people in the community here so there was a huge outpouring of support from the community, which helps. We are still reeling from Goforth. These conversations sadly have become daily for us. There is high turnover right now where my husband is stationed so he is working insane hours. So some days he works 16 hour shifts and he's doing 2-3 of those a week. The turnover was bad before, but it's even worse now. I worry about him pumping gas or walking into a store with his uniform on.

You can understand how so much hate and vitriol is being spread if you listen/read our national mainstream media. Most of you are in the UK, so you don't know about our insanely outrageous media coverage. For example, with our local media Houston floods like crazy and we are no stranger to natural disasters, but as soon as water starts to enter people's homes, there's a helicopter, a crew and a phone call with a local neighbor describing the flowing water situation and a photo from Twitter of the cat floating away on a couch plastered all over the net and TV. Everything is sensationalized and over-hyped. It is embarrassingly excess.

National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares :shrug:). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets). The internet is a little better (depends on the station) because people read for content but even lately that's become more filler... thanks to Facebook cutting off the stream of cash flow to smaller outfits and ad-blockers.

Also, there is an high likelihood that the candidates and organizations pay a ton of people to post on websites which further adds to the distortions and vulgar sensationalism. Go on the Daily Mail and see how many people are turning unrelated news into conversations about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in comments section. If you click on some of them, you'll notice some of their posting histories are highly suspect. (also who has the money or time to care about spending all day commenting on news sites about politicians? Seriously.) Why would the media filter out those commentors if they're contributing to click rates? The same reason Facebook will have dead people follow brands, paid sponsorship.

That means for every much needed discussion about racism, you have an overly inciteful commentor writing "coded" messages towards in very particular personas in to distort the public's perception. Mix in a few actual crazies and it looks like the country is going seriously to pot and then legitimately people read these commenters thinking they are real posters and become really angry.

This kind of "sponsorship" is now common on social media. Let's not forget too the online media who have "guest bloggers" posting articles from a very biased POV.

"Are online comments full of paid lies?"
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2485252/social-media/are-online-comments-full-of-paid-lies-.html
A thriving industry of paid-for user comments pollutes social networks with fake opinions. Even Samsung does it

"Paid Commenters Hired By Fox News To Spread Right Wing Talking Points Across The Net"
http://addictinginfo.org/2013/10/27/paid-commenters-flood-internet/

Facebook will make your dead friend "like" stuff.

"Why are dead people liking stuff on Facebook"
http://readwrite.com/2012/12/11/why-are-dead-people-liking-stuff-on-facebook/

"FB fans aren’t seeing your posts (and how to fix it)"
http://alwaysupward.com/blog/fb-fans-arent-seeing-your-posts-and-how-to-fix-it/

It’s no conspiracy. Facebook acknowledged it as recently as last week: messages now reach, on average, just 15 percent of an account’s fans. In a wonderful coincidence, Facebook has rolled out a solution for this problem: Pay them for better access.

As their advertising head, Gokul Rajaram, explained, if you want to speak to the other 80 to 85 percent of people who signed up to hear from you, “sponsoring posts is important.”

In other words, through “Sponsored Stories,” brands, agencies and artists are now charged to reach their own fans—the whole reason for having a page—because those pages have suddenly stopped working.

This is a clear conflict of interest. The worse the platform performs, the more advertisers need to use Sponsored Stories. In a way, it means that Facebook is broken, on purpose, in order to extract more money from users. In the case of Sponsored Stories, it has meant raking in nearly $1M a day.

Let's not forget the filter bubble by way of Google through way of Personalized Search results... i.e. we generally only see views we agree with

Filter Bubble - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble

A filter bubble is a result of a personalized search in which a website algorithm selectively guesses what information a user would like to see based on information about the user (such as location, past click behavior and search history[1][2]) and, as a result, users become separated from information that disagrees with their viewpoints, effectively isolating them in their own cultural or ideological bubbles. Prime examples are Google Personalized Search results and Facebook's personalized news stream. The term was coined by internet activist Eli Pariser in his book by the same name; according to Pariser, users get less exposure to conflicting viewpoints and are isolated intellectually in their own informational bubble. Pariser related an example in which one user searched Google for "BP" and got investment news about British Petroleum while another searcher got information about the Deepwater Horizon oil spill and that the two search results pages were "strikingly different".[3][4][5][6] The bubble effect may have negative implications for civic discourse, according to Pariser, but there are contrasting views suggesting the effect is minimal[6] and addressable.[7]

So Americans on social media popularize the issues, even though not all social media websites are playing fair in publishing them. The media then dissects this into a persona, neglecting most of the facts and only picking it apart for entertainment/sensation value and then uses a baiting headline to incite reactions and then self-aggrandizing groups or political figuers such as the NRA, NAACP, Tea Party, Donald Trump, etc polarize the issues further to get attention and control perception because who cares about facts when they can push their platform and make $$$. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That last bit is the most important part and has gotten really out of control in the US the past several years. The media is becoming more and more nationalist and comments/retweets on my Twitter are starting to read like obituaries. We're not as dire as the media portrays, but it's the media that gives a platform to much of the vitriol that incites the violence. It started to get really bad after 9/11, we massively over-reacted to it politically and militarily and the media has been riding on a polarized public ever since.

Oh and voter apathy among minorities and moderates does not help. I was shocked to read Brexit voting population percentage was 70%+.... that would be a miracle here. We are lucky to get more than 50% of the population to vote in a general election. Far far less in a primary.

[Ninastar]

This is #2 for us. We went through it with the first time with Goforth. My husband works for the Sheriff's Office and is a detention officer doing CIRT for the Mental Health Unit at the jail. I have another close family in the same building as well and we know a bunch that are on the streets.

The gas station where the Goforth shooting occurred is a place our close friend frequented while on patrol and it very easily could've been him. The Goforth's lived down the road and we are in the same district. It affected a lot of people in the community here so there was a huge outpouring of support from the community, which helps. We are still reeling from Goforth. These conversations sadly have become daily for us. There is high turnover right now where my husband is stationed so he is working insane hours. So some days he works 16 hour shifts and he's doing 2-3 of those a week. The turnover was bad before, but it's even worse now. I worry about him pumping gas or walking into a store with his uniform on.

You can understand how so much hate and vitriol is being spread if you listen/read our national mainstream media. Most of you are in the UK, so you don't know about our insanely outrageous media coverage. For example, with our local media Houston floods like crazy and we are no stranger to natural disasters, but as soon as water starts to enter people's homes, there's a helicopter, a crew and a phone call with a local neighbor describing the flowing water situation and a photo from Twitter of the cat floating away on a couch plastered all over the net and TV. Everything is sensationalized and over-hyped. It is embarrassingly excess.

National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares :shrug:). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets). The internet is a little better (depends on the station) because people read for content but even lately that's become more filler... thanks to Facebook cutting off the stream of cash flow to smaller outfits and ad-blockers.

Also, there is an high likelihood that the candidates and organizations pay a ton of people to post on websites which further adds to the distortions and vulgar sensationalism. Go on the Daily Mail and see how many people are turning unrelated news into conversations about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in comments section. If you click on some of them, you'll notice some of their posting histories are highly suspect. (also who has the money or time to care about spending all day commenting on news sites about politicians? Seriously.) Why would the media filter out those commentors if they're contributing to click rates? The same reason Facebook will have dead people follow brands, paid sponsorship.

That means for every much needed discussion about racism, you have an overly inciteful commentor writing "coded" messages towards in very particular personas in to distort the public's perception. Mix in a few actual crazies and it looks like the country is going seriously to pot and then legitimately people read these commenters thinking they are real posters and become really angry.

This kind of "sponsorship" is now common on social media. Let's not forget too the online media who have "guest bloggers" posting articles from a very biased POV.

"Are online comments full of paid lies?"
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2485252/social-media/are-online-comments-full-of-paid-lies-.html


"Paid Commenters Hired By Fox News To Spread Right Wing Talking Points Across The Net"
http://addictinginfo.org/2013/10/27/paid-commenters-flood-internet/

Facebook will make your dead friend "like" stuff.

"Why are dead people liking stuff on Facebook"
http://readwrite.com/2012/12/11/why-are-dead-people-liking-stuff-on-facebook/

"FB fans aren’t seeing your posts (and how to fix it)"
http://alwaysupward.com/blog/fb-fans-arent-seeing-your-posts-and-how-to-fix-it/



Let's not forget the filter bubble by way of Google through way of Personalized Search results... i.e. we generally only see views we agree with

Filter Bubble - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble



So Americans on social media popularize the issues, even though not all social media websites are playing fair in publishing them. The media then dissects this into a persona, neglecting most of the facts and only picking it apart for entertainment/sensation value and then uses a baiting headline to incite reactions and then self-aggrandizing groups or political figuers such as the NRA, NAACP, Tea Party, Donald Trump, etc polarize the issues further to get attention and control perception because who cares about facts when they can push their platform and make $$$. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That last bit is the most important part and has gotten really out of control in the US the past several years. The media is becoming more and more nationalist and comments/retweets on my Twitter are starting to read like obituaries. We're not as dire as the media portrays, but it's the media that gives a platform to much of the vitriol that incites the violence. It started to get really bad after 9/11, we massively over-reacted to it politically and militarily and the media has been riding on a polarized public ever since.

Oh and voter apathy among minorities and moderates does not help. I was shocked to read Brexit voting population percentage was 70%+.... that would be a miracle here. We are lucky to get more than 50% of the population to vote in a general election. Far far less in a primary.

Very, very well said.

[Mystic Mock]

Why am i not surprised many are using this as an excuse to completely discredit the blacklivesmatter movement and tar them all with the same brush
This was exactly the situation they needed, so they could exploit
Yes this is a tragedy, but this does not discredit the amount of police brutality towards POC in America. Both are tragic
Seeing many now trying to label blacklivesmatter as an extremist movement is just tragic

This was all I wanted to say really.

Thanks Munchkins for saving me time.:dance:

[Mystic Mock]

Isn't it usually the case that when a police officer arrests or assaults or kills a black man or woman, they tend to play the race card straight away. They say "You killed him/her coz he/she was black". They say "You picked on him/her and arrested him/her coz he/she was black". They seem to interpret the situation the way that they see it through their rose-tinted spectacles, as if they can mind-read or something!!

Generally any police officer will arrest, assault or kill a man or a women who they believe is breaking the law and may be a danger to others, regardless of skin colour. The only racism is in the eye of the beholder or spectator who is black themselves and thinks every non-black police officer is racist.

The black man who went out with premeditated murder on his mind is nothing more than a murdering scumbag than needs a torturous type of capital punishment to make him suffer. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever or any other vigilante types who go after police officers who are out there risking their lives every day to save other people, just because they get it into their heads that their arresting actions are always racially motivated.

I'm not defending what happened to the Police Officers, but one of the black men that got shot was shot eight times, there was footage showing him running away from the Police Officer so he wasn't going to attack him.

Of course does it mean that these innocent Police Officers that weren't involved in the case should be shot dead? Of course not, but I can understand this BlackLivesMatter group's frustration at what's going on in their country.

[arista]

That last Evil Sniper Was so Tooled Up,
that Police Chief had to use the bomb detection Robot
with a "Bomb on it" - Fair play as he would have taken more Cops with him.

[Ammi]

What I find strange is that more white people have actually been killed by cops than any other race this year, yet no one seems to be protesting over that? :shrug:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

..it's not really the volume of those killed by the police though, Caitlin...whether there have been more white people than black people..?...it's whether those white people were 'justifiably' killed and whether there was no alternative because of the threat they were being at the time ...it seems that sadly too often, black people are killed by the police when there have been alternatives to loss of life in those situations...so that would be the comparison to make...

[Ammi]

..excellent insight and heart-felt post, Maru...I can't imagine how it must be for you when your partner is out in his working day..:hug:...

[Ammi]

Isn't it usually the case that when a police officer arrests or assaults or kills a black man or woman, they tend to play the race card straight away. They say "You killed him/her coz he/she was black". They say "You picked on him/her and arrested him/her coz he/she was black". They seem to interpret the situation the way that they see it through their rose-tinted spectacles, as if they can mind-read or something!!

Generally any police officer will arrest, assault or kill a man or a women who they believe is breaking the law and may be a danger to others, regardless of skin colour. The only racism is in the eye of the beholder or spectator who is black themselves and thinks every non-black police officer is racist.

The black man who went out with premeditated murder on his mind is nothing more than a murdering scumbag than needs a torturous type of capital punishment to make him suffer. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever or any other vigilante types who go after police officers who are out there risking their lives every day to save other people, just because they get it into their heads that their arresting actions are always racially motivated.


..no, it's usually the case when OTT/unnecessary and inappropriate to the situation force is used and when loss of life results without any other alternatives being explored, which are all very definite duties and pledges of police officers...and oh, look it just happens to be a black person again which it's being applied to...

[Ninastar]

..it's not really the volume of those killed by the police though, Caitlin...whether there have been more white people than black people..?...it's whether those white people were 'justifiably' killed and whether there was no alternative because of the threat they were being at the time ...it seems that sadly too often, black people are killed by the police when there have been alternatives to loss of life in those situations...so that would be the comparison to make...

We wouldn't know whether they were 'justifiably' killed or not though, because no one kicks up a fuss about it when they are white.

This sounds like I'm one of those 'WHITE LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!' people but I'm not. I hate those people.

I'm just saying that I don't think its a race thing like people claim it is. If it was, there would be far, far many more POC killed than white people.

Perhaps we do need to look more into who we do employ as a police officer. But again, its a tricky one, we will never know how difficult it is to be an officer. I once watched this and I thought it was pretty interesting.

yfi3Ndh3n-g

[Ammi]

...your partner/child/sibling/friend goes out for their working day and never returns again, I can't even begin to imagine how it is for the loved ones of those police officers right now..:sad:...

[Ammi]

We wouldn't know whether they were 'justifiably' killed or not though, because no one kicks up a fuss about it when they are white.

This sounds like I'm one of those 'WHITE LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!' people but I'm not. I hate those people.

I'm just saying that I don't think its a race thing like people claim it is. If it was, there would be far, far many more POC killed than white people.

Perhaps we do need to look more into who we do employ as a police officer. But again, its a tricky one, we will never know how difficult it is to be an officer. I once watched this and I thought it was pretty interesting.

yfi3Ndh3n-g


...but that's the thing though of what has just sadly happened, Caitlin..we do know because police officers have been shot dead because they were white officers...families of white people wouldn't not shout out loud about it if they felt that a loved one had lost their life because of the colour of their skin...hang on, let me watch your vid...and morning..:love:...

[Ammi]

.....hmmm, see though that's only really showing situations when it would be appropriate to draw weapons and sometimes use them..(although it's still whether an officer has shot to kill when he could have disabled..)...someone coming toward him in the way that is shown is most definitely 'threatening'...but would he shoot in the chest or in the legs because a shot to the chest would raise the chances more of a death shot... where the guy had a hidden knife..?...he was disarmed of that knife in a training situation that could be compared to the recent case, with the guy with the gun in his pocket..?..he was pinned down and unable to draw or use any weapon he may have had but was still shot to death...and Tamir Rice was shot and killed within seconds of the police officer's arriving on the scene with no attempt at any other alternative...the vid is only really showing 'no alternative' situations...

[Ammi]

Well why don't they just make their slogan 'black lives matter too' to stop any confusion?Having a slogan like that which implies that only black lives matter is bound to cause controversy.
Some of these blm people actually do think that only black lives matter and are racist.Those are the ones who give blm the bad reputation they have and detract from their cause.Most black people are killed by other black people but they don't go protesting over that.

..BLM is a raising of awareness though, NM...and like any raising of awareness of anything, it's not saying that any comparisons aren't of equal importance, just that it's focusing on something in particular ...I mean, we don't say 'this is a Race for Life for breast cancer because we feel that breast cancer is of more importance than any other cancer', type thing..it's just that the focus of raising awareness in anything is..well, focused on one thing, I mean always, surely ..:laugh:...so the use of 'too' is not really necessary and shouldn't be...that in itself would seem to me to justify more than anything else, the BLM campaigners....so it's understandable the frustrations and (yes anger..)..felt with 'all lives matter' because it completely dismisses any thought at all...


....slightly off topic but just because the #gorillalivesmatter thing has been mentioned and I hadn't heard of that until this thread....I found that quite interesting as well, the way the media attention in the immediate after days were very focused on the boy's family in terms of delving into their background and his dad being an ex drug addict and having a criminal record etc.../I didn't see any relevance at all to what happened and the death of Harambe....that we had so much negative information/background given about the family...

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Why am i not surprised many are using this as an excuse to completely discredit the blacklivesmatter movement and tar them all with the same brush
This was exactly the situation they needed, so they could exploit
Yes this is a tragedy, but this does not discredit the amount of police brutality towards POC in America. Both are tragic
Seeing many now trying to label blacklivesmatter as an extremist movement is just tragic

That's it. It was originally founded by 3 black women that wanted equality. This is the main message of BLM.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

..it's not really the volume of those killed by the police though, Caitlin...whether there have been more white people than black people..?...it's whether those white people were 'justifiably' killed and whether there was no alternative because of the threat they were being at the time ...it seems that sadly too often, black people are killed by the police when there have been alternatives to loss of life in those situations...so that would be the comparison to make...

And that is it. People don't seem to get it.
PS- I am skeptical about the numbers we are presented with in terms of deaths. There was a percentage that Trump shouted out which turned out to be false. So it really needs to be paid attention to, who is releasing these numbers.

[kirklancaster]

..it's not really the volume of those killed by the police though, Caitlin...whether there have been more white people than black people..?...it's whether those white people were 'justifiably' killed and whether there was no alternative because of the threat they were being at the time ...it seems that sadly too often, black people are killed by the police when there have been alternatives to loss of life in those situations...so that would be the comparison to make...

:clap1::clap1::clap1: ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON. No one should ever underestimate the brain and insight inside that beautiful exterior Ammi.

[kirklancaster]

This is #2 for us. We went through it with the first time with Goforth. My husband works for the Sheriff's Office and is a detention officer doing CIRT for the Mental Health Unit at the jail. I have another close family in the same building as well and we know a bunch that are on the streets.

The gas station where the Goforth shooting occurred is a place our close friend frequented while on patrol and it very easily could've been him. The Goforth's lived down the road and we are in the same district. It affected a lot of people in the community here so there was a huge outpouring of support from the community, which helps. We are still reeling from Goforth. These conversations sadly have become daily for us. There is high turnover right now where my husband is stationed so he is working insane hours. So some days he works 16 hour shifts and he's doing 2-3 of those a week. The turnover was bad before, but it's even worse now. I worry about him pumping gas or walking into a store with his uniform on.

You can understand how so much hate and vitriol is being spread if you listen/read our national mainstream media. Most of you are in the UK, so you don't know about our insanely outrageous media coverage. For example, with our local media Houston floods like crazy and we are no stranger to natural disasters, but as soon as water starts to enter people's homes, there's a helicopter, a crew and a phone call with a local neighbor describing the flowing water situation and a photo from Twitter of the cat floating away on a couch plastered all over the net and TV. Everything is sensationalized and over-hyped. It is embarrassingly excess.

National media is basically tabloids disguised as real news on TV 24/7. It is 95% entertainment, 4.9% headlines, .1% facts. 100% of the coverage is Donald Trump, BLM, evil law enforcement, dead people, mass shootings and constant coverage of celebrity deaths (like Anna Nicole Smith, who cares :shrug:). Donald Trump gets more coverage than the superbowl. A racist self-absorbed prick's opinion is more important than delivering the facts around majorly important issues. Ok.

If you listened to national media all day you would think our society has gone insane, but it's a major distortion of life here that people eat it up because it adds color and meaning to their otherwise mundane lives. Disenfranchised people want other people to blame. Businesses want other parties to be responsible for their failures. The public hear that actual effort won't fix the issues, but getting attention and promoting violence will (by suggesting people will arm themselves or go to the streets). The internet is a little better (depends on the station) because people read for content but even lately that's become more filler... thanks to Facebook cutting off the stream of cash flow to smaller outfits and ad-blockers.

Also, there is an high likelihood that the candidates and organizations pay a ton of people to post on websites which further adds to the distortions and vulgar sensationalism. Go on the Daily Mail and see how many people are turning unrelated news into conversations about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in comments section. If you click on some of them, you'll notice some of their posting histories are highly suspect. (also who has the money or time to care about spending all day commenting on news sites about politicians? Seriously.) Why would the media filter out those commentors if they're contributing to click rates? The same reason Facebook will have dead people follow brands, paid sponsorship.

That means for every much needed discussion about racism, you have an overly inciteful commentor writing "coded" messages towards in very particular personas in to distort the public's perception. Mix in a few actual crazies and it looks like the country is going seriously to pot and then legitimately people read these commenters thinking they are real posters and become really angry.

This kind of "sponsorship" is now common on social media. Let's not forget too the online media who have "guest bloggers" posting articles from a very biased POV.

"Are online comments full of paid lies?"
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2485252/social-media/are-online-comments-full-of-paid-lies-.html


"Paid Commenters Hired By Fox News To Spread Right Wing Talking Points Across The Net"
http://addictinginfo.org/2013/10/27/paid-commenters-flood-internet/

Facebook will make your dead friend "like" stuff.

"Why are dead people liking stuff on Facebook"
http://readwrite.com/2012/12/11/why-are-dead-people-liking-stuff-on-facebook/

"FB fans aren’t seeing your posts (and how to fix it)"
http://alwaysupward.com/blog/fb-fans-arent-seeing-your-posts-and-how-to-fix-it/



Let's not forget the filter bubble by way of Google through way of Personalized Search results... i.e. we generally only see views we agree with

Filter Bubble - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble



So Americans on social media popularize the issues, even though not all social media websites are playing fair in publishing them. The media then dissects this into a persona, neglecting most of the facts and only picking it apart for entertainment/sensation value and then uses a baiting headline to incite reactions and then self-aggrandizing groups or political figuers such as the NRA, NAACP, Tea Party, Donald Trump, etc polarize the issues further to get attention and control perception because who cares about facts when they can push their platform and make $$$. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That last bit is the most important part and has gotten really out of control in the US the past several years. The media is becoming more and more nationalist and comments/retweets on my Twitter are starting to read like obituaries. We're not as dire as the media portrays, but it's the media that gives a platform to much of the vitriol that incites the violence. It started to get really bad after 9/11, we massively over-reacted to it politically and militarily and the media has been riding on a polarized public ever since.

Oh and voter apathy among minorities and moderates does not help. I was shocked to read Brexit voting population percentage was 70%+.... that would be a miracle here. We are lucky to get more than 50% of the population to vote in a general election. Far far less in a primary.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: I am not usually a lover of long, comprehensive posts Maru :hee: - But this is SO superbly written and your points so relevant, that I just have to applaud you.

[arista]

And that is it. People don't seem to get it.
PS- I am skeptical about the numbers we are presented with in terms of deaths. There was a percentage that Trump shouted out which turned out to be false. So it really needs to be paid attention to, who is releasing these numbers.


Sure but once the sound bite is out there
it gets its own river to flow in

[Mystic Mock]

We wouldn't know whether they were 'justifiably' killed or not though, because no one kicks up a fuss about it when they are white.

This sounds like I'm one of those 'WHITE LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!' people but I'm not. I hate those people.

I'm just saying that I don't think its a race thing like people claim it is. If it was, there would be far, far many more POC killed than white people.

Perhaps we do need to look more into who we do employ as a police officer. But again, its a tricky one, we will never know how difficult it is to be an officer. I once watched this and I thought it was pretty interesting.

yfi3Ndh3n-g

If there was a substantial amount of white people being shot dead by The Police for no reason whatsoever then the News would report it.

[Tom4784]

What I find strange is that more white people have actually been killed by cops than any other race this year, yet no one seems to be protesting over that? :shrug:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

The difference is that they were more likely to be lawful shootings, given how the phrase 'Black Lives Matter' causes certain white people to froth at the mouth in rage how do you think they'd react if a white person was executed by the police in a similar fashion to these killings? There'd be riots.

If what happened to Tamir Rice happened to a white child there'd be calls for blood.

There's an imbalance here, I'm not against lawful killings if there's no other way but considering it feels like there's a new incident like this happening every other week it feels foolish to deny there's a problem. Nothing will change if we bury our heads in the sand but if the american people take a stand against Police Brutality then it benefits everyone.

[Livia]

There's already a thread about the unlawful shootings of black men. This is about the murder of police officers. Funny how the thread has been turned into some kind of place to gather to "understand" why the shooter was angry. These arguments are always so skewed on this forum.

The shooting of the black men was appalling. Shooting innocent officers in retaliation is not understandable.... it's JUST as appalling.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There's already a thread about the unlawful shootings of black men. This is about the murder of police officers. Funny how the thread has been turned into some kind of place to gather to "understand" why the shooter was angry. These arguments are always so skewed on this forum.

The shooting of the black men was appalling. Shooting innocent officers in retaliation is not understandable.... it's JUST as appalling.

:clap1:

[Ninastar]

Think that was my fault, sorry!

[arista]

Dallas Police say they have had a New Credible Threat
of more White Officers to be killed

http://news.sky.com/story/dallas-police-hq-in-lockdown-after-threat-10497346

[Cherie]

There's already a thread about the unlawful shootings of black men. This is about the murder of police officers. Funny how the thread has been turned into some kind of place to gather to "understand" why the shooter was angry. These arguments are always so skewed on this forum.

The shooting of the black men was appalling. Shooting innocent officers in retaliation is not understandable.... it's JUST as appalling.

:clap2:

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

There's already a thread about the unlawful shootings of black men. This is about the murder of police officers. Funny how the thread has been turned into some kind of place to gather to "understand" why the shooter was angry. These arguments are always so skewed on this forum.

The shooting of the black men was appalling. Shooting innocent officers in retaliation is not understandable.... it's JUST as appalling.
Also funny how you didn't say anything in that thread but say something here.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

This poor sista was just talking why the swat team? :rollseyes: https://twitter.com/thereaibanksy/status/751989375706099713

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Dallas Police say they have had a New Credible Threat
of more White Officers to be killed

http://news.sky.com/story/dallas-police-hq-in-lockdown-after-threat-10497346

Well it's been brewing up since the sixties if not earlier than that and the problem is still not acknowledged. It's come to this unfortunately. They're lucky they haven't done anything worst over the decades against cops.

[Livia]

Also funny how you didn't say anything in that thread but say something here.

I hope you're not calling me a racist. You. Who told me I couldn't be racially abused because Jews own Hollywood.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This poor sista was just talking why the swat team? :rollseyes: https://twitter.com/thereaibanksy/status/751989375706099713

what is a sista?

[arista]

I hope you're not calling me a racist. You. Who told me I couldn't be racially abused because Jews own Hollywood.


Yes Good Job they manage things


I have worked with many in LA.


You pay the Fee
GET THE DEAL

Sign Of The Times

[arista]

what is a sista?


black female



Possible perp




Beep Beep

Frisk Her.


OK let her Go

[Tom4784]

I don't see the problem with discussing both issues as they are related.

It's better to discuss something meaningful then just have a thread full of 'RIP xx' posts.

[Northern Monkey]

A very interesting take on the media spin on all this from two black American ladies.
60 shootings over a weekend in Chicago and it hardly gets a mention because it won't attract viewers like a white 'oppressor' and a black 'victim'
/7fb_hXTjbO0

[Northern Monkey]

Great ladies
"This is the United States not the Divided States and we are One race and ALL LIVES MATTER"

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Great ladies
"This is the United States not the Divided States and we are One race and ALL LIVES MATTER"

United like the forever active KKK members, those that don't want to let Syrian refugees in and those that target Muslims? Ok :laugh: great ladies when they agree with some white views

[Maru]

United like the forever active KKK members, those that don't want to let Syrian refugees in and those that target Muslims? Ok :laugh: great ladies when they agree with some white views

Girl, that's your own people. Have a little bit more respect. At least they have the cajones to reach out across the aisle and try to have a conversation. That is much braver than sitting on a message board posting vitriol for reactions :shrug:

You sound pretty young. You're all over the board posting the same stuff on a bunch of topics. I've read what you've had to say and I wish I could say something constructive and try to add positively, but what I'm more worried about that you will get lost in another of your rants and that I will have wasted my time...

Some of the people here are not even willing to give you the time of the day. It may come off as intolerant in retrospect and make you feel angry, but consider too that you may be part of the problem and getting in the way of your own arguments...

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Girl, that's your own people. Have a little bit more respect. At least they have the cajones to reach out across the aisle and try to have a conversation. That is much braver than sitting on a message board posting vitriol for reactions :shrug:

You sound pretty young. You're all over the board posting the same stuff on a bunch of topics. I've read what you've had to say and I wish I could say something constructive and try to add positively, but what I'm more worried about that you will get lost in another of your rants and that I will have wasted my time...

Some of the people here are not even willing to give you the time of the day. It may come off as intolerant in retrospect and make you feel angry, but consider too that you may be part of the problem and getting in the way of your own arguments...
That is my own people so that means I have to agree? This must mean you agree with the racist side of your own people, because they're your people? For whatever reason my post on response to that video was deleted I responded that she stereotyped black men to justify white cops fears, and she suggested that we sit down at a table and discuss it first of all which table? On many formats black people have spoken about this for years even on news channel but their concerns are mostly rebuffed . People are more concerned with proving their claims wrong rather than actually listening to their concerns. And I ended with even if all all lives matter can we still discuss the Mark Furhmans and Eric garners!

Well I'm glad you've read my posts. First time I see your name actually. I see you're quite new you must have come when I was on hiatus maybe. When you have to discuss the same thing over and over again with the same people you kind have a fair idea where everyone stands and it's highly unlikely you'll change their perspective, especially on a message board so yes at some point you just rant as you call and because you only see my latest posts, as per your new arrival to the board, you think that's all I'm about. I can only shrug.

Thanks on the I'm young comment but what relevance does it have to anything?
Some don't have the time for me you concluded, cool. Since I've been here I've only been close to 4 people. 2 have disappeared and one remains which I've told her that I have concerns about her still interacting with me because ever since I've talked more about racism, whether rants or not, things have become different and o don't want her viewed the same way.

How do you know I'm not active on this? Not hat it's any of your business but my dad owns a charity with this is one of things discussed. Telling me to stop discussing it/ranting it on a board while it's alright for you to write your lengthy analysis here? I suppose you think you're better than I am then?
How do you know my "rants" aren't a result of personal experience also?
Just this morning I had a chat with an elderly man seemed friendly kept a gentle tone to his voice. The convo went from discussing his friend dying of cancer to "so where do you come from then?" I thought he was talking about parts of London but he meant Country. After he commented on how the country is now racist and how lovely Australia is but not before he mentioned that they had a "white policy" before where people "like you [me] " couldn't enter the country. I added sort of like what Trump wants to do to the Muslims. The whole conversation ended with him telling I should probably go back to where I came from due to growing racism. He was acting like he was talking for my best interest. My friend was called a blackie and her boyfriend harassed because he's with her and family have experienced it. If you don't like this latest stage of me "ranting" girl, you can utilise block button.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Larry Gordon shot 2-3 police officers where's the outrage?

[Northern Monkey]

United like the forever active KKK members, those that don't want to let Syrian refugees in and those that target Muslims? Ok :laugh: great ladies when they agree with some white views

White views?What even are white views?
Surely Everybody has their own views no matter what race they are?These two ladies for instance want to try and end the divisions,They are not just white views they are many peoples views.

[Maru]

That is my own people so that means I have to agree? This must mean you agree with the racist side of your own people, because they're your people? For whatever reason my post on response to that video was deleted!

Enthusiastically, you should in the very least welcome the difference in opinion because their experience can be merged with your own and give your voice and arguments more credit (which is generally how debates work). Just because they may have experienced life differently than your own doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

I didn't catch the deleted response so I can't comment on it.

[Maru]

Just to add to this thread because not sure if what news makes it over there or not.

Dallas Police Department Sees Surge in Applications After Mass Shooting
http://fortune.com/2016/07/23/dallas-police-application-surge/

Applications have increased threefold since the attack that killed five officers

The Dallas Police Department received 467 job applications in the 12 days after the July 7 shooting, Reuters reported on Friday, citing city officials. That number represents a 344% increase from just 136 applications during 12 days in June.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott proposes law increasing penalties for crimes against cops
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160718-texas-gov.-greg-abbott-proposes-law-increasing-penalties-for-crimes-against-cops.ece

AUSTIN — Following the police shootings in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Gov. Greg Abbott said Monday that he will ask lawmakers next year to enact a "Police Protection Act," aiming to increase penalties for crimes against officers.

"At a time when law enforcement officers increasingly come under assault simply because of the job they hold, Texas must send a resolute message that the state will stand by the men and women who serve and protect our communities," Abbott said in a written statement.

[Kizzy]

Girl, that's your own people. Have a little bit more respect. At least they have the cajones to reach out across the aisle and try to have a conversation. That is much braver than sitting on a message board posting vitriol for reactions :shrug:

You sound pretty young. You're all over the board posting the same stuff on a bunch of topics. I've read what you've had to say and I wish I could say something constructive and try to add positively, but what I'm more worried about that you will get lost in another of your rants and that I will have wasted my time...

Some of the people here are not even willing to give you the time of the day. It may come off as intolerant in retrospect and make you feel angry, but consider too that you may be part of the problem and getting in the way of your own arguments...

Your own people? Do we all have to be representative of whichever hue matches our own tone now? She is entitled to her opinion if you don't like it you are entitled to not read or respond Maru.

Personally I enjoy reading ITILYTs posts, if she is angry then she is angry I respect her right to voice that anger and frustration, I am more than willing to give her the time of day... I object to those who wish to subdue others however whether in person or on a message board, and I have the cajones to express that.

I hope you appreciate this.

[Maru]

Your own people? Do we all have to be representative of whichever hue matches our own tone now? She is entitled to her opinion if you don't like it you are entitled to not read or respond Maru.

Without launching into a large explanation, my response was not meant for the purpose of saying "get in line", but except maybe remember that all who walked before you and beside you are working towards a common goal and that one should borrow their brothers and sister's experiences. I'm of a very strong opinion that people should work together, particularly those within the same communities, for a common goal and purpose because no one will have your back like those who have walked in your shoes before.

Her responses are very divisive and for me, quite disconcerting because this is a time that we should all be relying one each other. I was just pointing this out in my own little way because it is my take, but at the same time dipping my toe in to see if we both could have a conversation that can go beyond certain rhetoric. Are they open to constructive thoughts or is it all just reactionary? If she took my response as too personal and too blunt, then that is half the problem... this is a controversial topic, it's going to be personal. Am I supposed to ignore my own observations of discussion and feelings being expressed here and not voice my opinion? It just seems like so few are listening to each other, more would rather do all the talking...

That said, my own words, "your own people". A person's culture is more than just skin color, it's shared experiences and common ancestors and obstacles that need to be overcome or that they are working to overcome. I can't possibly have a conversation from those shoes, because I am not in the. If I started to act as if I completely understand, that wouldn't be right. However, to reach a common goal, there eventually will need to trying other people's shoes on to see each other's points... however I take offense to someone who can be so disrespectful to others fighting the same fight and yet have no respect for their experience in it.

I would argue to some degree that it is self-hate. The disconnect is clear which is why I wrote my response and was so blunt about it. Sorry if it doesn't sound 'sensitive', but I'm the type that does not beat around the bush. She and I are very similar in that manner.

Anyway, her other post was deleted as well and so the only thing left was the lone extreme response and that was the one I had the emotional reaction to.

She is not a representative, but the last thing we need is more hate. You've made a valid point, that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if I may be so bold

You're absolutely right. The last thing we need is more hate which is why I wrote my post. I think the other part that got taken out of context was when I mentioned people turning a blind eye. There are a few posters here who have made that clear and after a while you have to ask yourself if you'd just be fueling a pattern. She was very much allowed to write her own response, why would I tell someone what they can and cannot post? My post may have been very blunt and to the point in terms of trying to figure out if a conversation could happen, but I feel like the lines will get crossed anyway because these topics are so controversial and highly personalized.

Personally I enjoy reading ITILYTs posts, if she is angry then she is angry I respect her right to voice that anger and frustration, I am more than willing to give her the time of day... I object to those who wish to subdue others however whether in person or on a message board, and I have the cajones to express that.

I hope you appreciate this.

How am I stopping anyone from expressing an opinion? I was expressing my own? That doesn't mean someone can't reply? Wow, you really can't say anything these days :laugh: Respectfully, I think my post was taken a little bit out of context because honestly I don't think that much about what I posted? :shrug: I wrote my concern about getting involved because of the observation. Sometimes people just write and write, they're not really there to be discussed with and that was my concern there.

If you look at my reply, it's fairly neutral. Some of her response was offensive, but she had her go at me and that was it. I sent her a friend request to reach out but I'm not going to go out of my way to be verbally abused when I legitimately do care about someone's POV's and wanted to strike a conversation. Her posts at times do not come off as welcoming discussion. I was afraid to take a chance? Many of her posts are outright name calling. I would love to discuss, but I'm only human and even I have a limit to what I can tolerate. I imagine some feel the same, which is why I wrote my post, to see if we could break the cycle?

Anyway, these are controversial discussions and I really feel to get anywhere, there needs to be trust and common respect. There seems to be little in this case, so I had already let it go. She had her rant at me and I wish her the best. I have no issues putting anyone on ignore so I already have her on there out of respect tbf. I did not want to be "tempted" by an intense discussion and find out it turns into verbal abuse and she didn't seem too keen on me with her reply but you can never be too sure. There is a lot of that going on in this particular section and I'd just like to avoid getting into some of the more ill language posts on here. I feel ill when I end up in passive aggressive conversations as they don't do me any world of good and they're predictable to be in anyway.

I do appreciate your words and I don't mind your "calling me out".

Edit: Opps, it turned into a large explanation. Sorry about that :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

sorry Kirk but you are being judge and jury again, just adding to the hysteria

If you have legal evidence for " US police ARE executing - largely - unharmed and helpless victims"

Post it here

There is far too much evidence LT for me to post to be honest.

'Legal Evidence' is NOT the 'be all and end all' LT, nor is it infallible - as the dozens of PROVEN innocent men still serving life sentences in the USA (and other countries) attests, as do those cases of belatedly freed and pardoned wrongly convicted 'murderers' such as ex-World Champion boxer, Ruben 'The Hurricane' Carter - himself a victim of the most appalling and blatant racial victimisation by a police officer.

No Judicial system - anywhere - is free from corruption, because such a system, like all systems, relies on the scrupulous fairness, impartiality and honesty of MAN, and that, I am afraid, is one rather big 'ASK'.

From my perspective, 'Empirical Evidence - that evidence collated by my senses - is evidence, and I personally trust my own logic and powers of judgement based upon the overwhelming and wholly convincing wealth of empirical evidence pertaining to this issue, than I do ANY Court or 'Official Report' anywhere in the world.

I think that it must be well known on here, that I am NOT some anti-Establishment, anti-police nutjob - far from it - because I lean to the Right and The Establishment, but not so much that my leaning distorts my view or my balance of judgement.

The EVIDENCE that the USA has a real, tangible, palpable INCREASING problem with psychotic, racist, POLICE OFFICERS venting their agendas without fear of RECRIMINATION is absolutely IRREFUTABLE - in my opinion.

I cede that the percentage of such bastards is low, but percentages by themselves are meaningless; 90% of 100 is 90, 10% of 4 billion is 400000000, but when it comes to the unnecessary taking of HUMAN life. ONE is too many.

I also cede that the vast MAJORITY of Police Officers are NOT racist and that we should ALL laud the highly dangerous and thankless job which they do in both SERVING and PROTECTING the public, but to DENY or REFUSE TO SEE that there is a problem with racially motivated unlawful killing of POC's by SOME serving police officers, for fear of tarnishing the reputation of those Police Forces as a whole, is wholly unacceptable.

These murderers could NOT flourish or even ACT unless the system which they are part of was not ALSO racially corrupt and tolerant of this practice to some degree - hence the blatant reluctance to hold any kind of 'OFFICIAL' inquiry following a lot of these 'incidents', AND the even more blatant 'Whitewashed' verdicts of 'No Case To Answer' in most cases when an inquiry is held.

The problem is NOT going to go away, and the more it is denied or ignored, the GREATER it will become.

Incidentally LT - I am making these points in a response to your question to me, but they are NOT meant intend to refer to you specifically.

[Kizzy]

Without launching into a large explanation, my response was not meant for the purpose of saying "get in line", but except maybe remember that all who walked before you and beside you are working towards a common goal and that one should borrow their brothers and sister's experiences. I'm of a very strong opinion that people should work together, particularly those within the same communities, for a common goal and purpose because no one will have your back like those who have walked in your shoes before.

Her responses are very divisive and for me, quite disconcerting because this is a time that we should all be relying one each other. I was just pointing this out in my own little way because it is my take, but at the same time dipping my toe in to see if we both could have a conversation that can go beyond certain rhetoric. Are they open to constructive thoughts or is it all just reactionary? If she took my response as too personal and too blunt, then that is half the problem... this is a controversial topic, it's going to be personal. Am I supposed to ignore my own observations of discussion and feelings being expressed here and not voice my opinion? It just seems like so few are listening to each other, more would rather do all the talking...

That said, my own words, "your own people". A person's culture is more than just skin color, it's shared experiences and common ancestors and obstacles that need to be overcome or that they are working to overcome. I can't possibly have a conversation from those shoes, because I am not in the. If I started to act as if I completely understand, that wouldn't be right. However, to reach a common goal, there eventually will need to trying other people's shoes on to see each other's points... however I take offense to someone who can be so disrespectful to others fighting the same fight and yet have no respect for their experience in it.

I would argue to some degree that it is self-hate. The disconnect is clear which is why I wrote my response and was so blunt about it. Sorry if it doesn't sound 'sensitive', but I'm the type that does not beat around the bush. She and I are very similar in that manner.

Anyway, her other post was deleted as well and so the only thing left was the lone extreme response and that was the one I had the emotional reaction to.



You're absolutely right. The last thing we need is more hate which is why I wrote my post. I think the other part that got taken out of context was when I mentioned people turning a blind eye. There are a few posters here who have made that clear and after a while you have to ask yourself if you'd just be fueling a pattern. She was very much allowed to write her own response, why would I tell someone what they can and cannot post? My post may have been very blunt and to the point in terms of trying to figure out if a conversation could happen, but I feel like the lines will get crossed anyway because these topics are so controversial and highly personalized.



How am I stopping anyone from expressing an opinion? I was expressing my own? That doesn't mean someone can't reply? Wow, you really can't say anything these days :laugh: Respectfully, I think my post was taken a little bit out of context because honestly I don't think that much about what I posted? :shrug: I wrote my concern about getting involved because of the observation. Sometimes people just write and write, they're not really there to be discussed with and that was my concern there.

If you look at my reply, it's fairly neutral. Some of her response was offensive, but she had her go at me and that was it. I sent her a friend request to reach out but I'm not going to go out of my way to be verbally abused when I legitimately do care about someone's POV's and wanted to strike a conversation. Her posts at times do not come off as welcoming discussion. I was afraid to take a chance? Many of her posts are outright name calling. I would love to discuss, but I'm only human and even I have a limit to what I can tolerate. I imagine some feel the same, which is why I wrote my post, to see if we could break the cycle?

Anyway, these are controversial discussions and I really feel to get anywhere, there needs to be trust and common respect. There seems to be little in this case, so I had already let it go. She had her rant at me and I wish her the best. I have no issues putting anyone on ignore so I already have her on there out of respect tbf. I did not want to be "tempted" by an intense discussion and find out it turns into verbal abuse and she didn't seem too keen on me with her reply but you can never be too sure. There is a lot of that going on in this particular section and I'd just like to avoid getting into some of the more ill language posts on here. I feel ill when I end up in passive aggressive conversations as they don't do me any world of good and they're predictable to be in anyway.

I do appreciate your words and I don't mind your "calling me out".

Edit: Opps, it turned into a large explanation. Sorry about that :laugh:

Sorry all I got from that was 'divisive' and disconcerting' why do you say so many words when just a few will do to get your opinion of others posts across?...

I don't doubt her post was deleted, when confronted with virtual finger wagging responses rarely maintain positivity.

If a post offends you report it, personally I wouldn't go into chapter and verse about it as it can be seen as character assassination...if I were to get passionate about a topic I wouldn't like it to define me as a person.

[Maru]

There is far too much evidence LT for me to post to be honest.

'Legal Evidence' is NOT the 'be all and end all' LT, nor is it infallible - as the dozens of PROVEN innocent men still serving life sentences in the USA (and other countries) attests, as do those cases of belatedly freed and pardoned wrongly convicted 'murderers' such as ex-World Champion boxer, Ruben 'The Hurricane' Carter - himself a victim of the most appalling and blatant racial victimisation by a police officer.

No Judicial system - anywhere - is free from corruption, because such a system, like all systems, relies on the scrupulous fairness, impartiality and honesty of MAN, and that, I am afraid, is one rather big 'ASK'.

From my perspective, 'Empirical Evidence - that evidence collated by my senses - is evidence, and I personally trust my own logic and powers of judgement based upon the overwhelming and wholly convincing wealth of empirical evidence pertaining to this issue, than I do ANY Court or 'Official Report' anywhere in the world.

I think that it must be well known on here, that I am NOT some anti-Establishment, anti-police nutjob - far from it - because I lean to the Right and The Establishment, but not so much that my leaning distorts my view or my balance of judgement.

The EVIDENCE that the USA has a real, tangible, palpable INCREASING problem with psychotic, racist, POLICE OFFICERS venting their agendas without fear of RECRIMINATION is absolutely IRREFUTABLE - in my opinion.

I cede that the percentage of such bastards is low, but percentages by themselves are meaningless; 90% of 100 is 90, 10% of 4 billion is 400000000, but when it comes to the unnecessary taking of HUMAN life. ONE is too many.

I also cede that the vast MAJORITY of Police Officers are NOT racist and that we should ALL laud the highly dangerous and thankless job which they do in both SERVING and PROTECTING the public, but to DENY or REFUSE TO SEE that there is a problem with racially motivated unlawful killing of POC's by serving police officers, for fear of tarnishing the reputation of those Police Forces as a whole, is wholly unacceptable.

These murderers could NOT flourish or even ACT unless the system which they are part of was not ALSO racially corrupt and tolerant of this practice to some degree - hence the blatant reluctance to hold any kind of 'OFFICIAL' inquiry following a lot of these 'incidents', AND the even more blatant 'Whitewashed' verdicts of 'No Case To Answer' in most cases when an inquiry is held.

The problem is NOT going to go away, and the more it is denied or ignored, the GREATER it will become.

Incidentally LT - I am making these points in a response to your question to me, but they are NOT meant intend to refer to you specifically.

Well said, kirk. I also can't believe we are still having a discussion about whether or not A or B problem exists. Of course police brutality and abuse exists. It will always be something that needs to be kept an eye on and in check. A corrupt government and a corrupt police agency often go hand in hand.

One obstacle I get frustrated with is the way some of these agencies handle policy. To the extremely bureaucratic ones, policy is equal to efficiency. Therefore officers are expected to follow as much as they can to the letter, keeping everything neat and clear, black and white. The problem is, context and circumstances vary and sometimes things don't quite fit in the box the way they were "expected" to. The chain of command will very often have one way of handling things, which is usually micromanaging from up top from an office with no view of the field, and I'm beginning to think they purposefully choose to remain this blind so they don't have as much culpability when things go wrong.

So then the sergeant or direct supervisor does things differently than the mucky mucks up top thought they were destined to be done and in all that report writing, there's a lot of creative chatter back and forth in order to "justify" things that didn't exactly go along with policy...

Well... a lot of creative reports get written and eventually these officers start to become too good so good at it that that becomes the default way to explain situations that maybe should be handled differently or policies need to be changed. They've learned also that there are ways to explain certain things without falling on the wrong side of policy, so while up top those officials have no clue whatsoever the loop holes they've left opened and set up that eventually the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. When something does go wrong and there is a scandal they claim later on they didn't know about what was going on because even though it was in the reports, it obviously wasn't made clear enough. Therefore it isn't their responsibility so they pass it to someone else in the chain until eventually someone is stuck holding the bomb.

We had a major issue recently with an elected official, they claimed they had no responsibility because they were simply unaware... even though they were in charge of day to day operations, because they could hide behind the chain of command, they instead promised an investigation and that they would without a doubt find the people at fault and "make them pay".

It's frustrating to work within such organization as someone lower on the chain, and even more frustrating if you're the officer who wants to see things change for the better and to do things right. You have no idea who to talk to about improving or changing any policy or situation that is causing problems until you find that one guy who is willing to not only commit to the paperwork, but put his stamp on it to see it get done. When there is a lot of public scrutiny in the media and no good leadership in your org, then that one guy becomes even more difficult to find.

American culture too itself has major issues and I'm glad it's taking a beating, because let's be honest, a lot of problems begin there as well.

[Maru]

Sorry all I got from that was 'divisive' and disconcerting' why do you say so many words when just a few will do to get your opinion of others posts across?...

I don't doubt her post was deleted, when confronted with virtual finger wagging responses rarely maintain positivity.

If a post offends you report it, personally I wouldn't go into chapter and verse about it as it can be seen as character assassination...if I were to get passionate about a topic I wouldn't like it to define me as a person.

You seem more invested about my posts than I am. I'm just having a discussion and I tend to write in essays. I'm a very fast typist. :laugh: Moving on...

[Kizzy]

You seem more invested about my posts than I am. I'm just having a discussion and I tend to write in essays. I'm a very fast typist. :laugh: Moving on...

Oh no, I just say what I see about all topics...you're not special :laugh:

I'll move on when I'm good and ready..............ok, I m ready.

[kirklancaster]

Well said, kirk. I also can't believe we are still having a discussion about whether or not A or B problem exists. Of course police brutality and abuse exists. It will always be something that needs to be kept an eye on and in check. A corrupt government and a corrupt police agency often go hand in hand.

One obstacle I get frustrated with is the way some of these agencies handle policy. To the extremely bureaucratic ones, policy is equal to efficiency. Therefore officers are expected to follow as much as they can to the letter, keeping everything neat and clear, black and white. The problem is, context and circumstances vary and sometimes things don't quite fit in the box the way they were "expected" to. The chain of command will very often have one way of handling things, which is usually micromanaging from up top from an office with no view of the field, and I'm beginning to think they purposefully choose to remain this blind so they don't have as much culpability when things go wrong.

So then the sergeant or direct supervisor does things differently than the mucky mucks up top thought they were destined to be done and in all that report writing, there's a lot of creative chatter back and forth in order to "justify" things that didn't exactly go along with policy...

Well... a lot of creative reports get written and eventually these officers start to become too good so good at it that that becomes the default way to explain situations that maybe should be handled differently or policies need to be changed. They've learned also that there are ways to explain certain things without falling on the wrong side of policy, so while up top those officials have no clue whatsoever the loop holes they've left opened and set up that eventually the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. When something does go wrong and there is a scandal they claim later on they didn't know about what was going on because even though it was in the reports, it obviously wasn't made clear enough. Therefore it isn't their responsibility so they pass it to someone else in the chain until eventually someone is stuck holding the bomb.

We had a major issue recently with an elected official, they claimed they had no responsibility because they were simply unaware... even though they were in charge of day to day operations, because they could hide behind the chain of command, they instead promised an investigation and that they would without a doubt find the people at fault and "make them pay".

It's frustrating to work within such organization as someone lower on the chain, and even more frustrating if you're the officer who wants to see things change for the better and to do things right. You have no idea who to talk to about improving or changing any policy or situation that is causing problems until you find that one guy who is willing to not only commit to the paperwork, but put his stamp on it to see it get done. When there is a lot of public scrutiny in the media and no good leadership in your org, then that one guy becomes even more difficult to find.

American culture too itself has major issues and I'm glad it's taking a beating, because let's be honest, a lot of problems begin there as well.

Thank you Maru. By return - and as I have said to you before - I LOVE your posts, so please keep them coming.

Your posts are ALWAYS well written, intelligent and informed, and on this particular issue, you are UNIQUELY placed to give us a real insight into the matter, as well as the benefit of your highly qualified opinion.

[Kizzy]

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8206725.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS92737944-1.jpg

[Maru]

Thank you Maru. By return - and as I have said to you before - I LOVE your posts, so please keep them coming.

Your posts are ALWAYS well written, intelligent and informed, and on this particular issue, you are UNIQUELY placed to give us a real insight into the matter, as well as the benefit of your highly qualified opinion.

Thanks kirk. I actually don't feel half the time my posts are all that well-written as I am trying to work on my English. I'm just glad when my words get across at least halfway decently. My husband is the writer and I often have him check it as well to see if I'm getting sloppy again :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Thanks kirk. I actually don't feel half the time my posts are all that well-written as I am trying to work on my English. I'm just glad when my words get across at least halfway decently. My husband is the writer and I often have him check it as well to see if I'm getting sloppy again :laugh:

Nothing 'sloppy' in your writing as far as I'm concerned.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Without launching into a large explanation, my response was not meant for the purpose of saying "get in line", but except maybe remember that all who walked before you and beside you are working towards a common goal and that one should borrow their brothers and sister's experiences. I'm of a very strong opinion that people should work together, particularly those within the same communities, for a common goal and purpose because no one will have your back like those who have walked in your shoes before.

Her responses are very divisive and for me, quite disconcerting because this is a time that we should all be relying one each other. I was just pointing this out in my own little way because it is my take, but at the same time dipping my toe in to see if we both could have a conversation that can go beyond certain rhetoric. Are they open to constructive thoughts or is it all just reactionary? If she took my response as too personal and too blunt, then that is half the problem... this is a controversial topic, it's going to be personal. Am I supposed to ignore my own observations of discussion and feelings being expressed here and not voice my opinion? It just seems like so few are listening to each other, more would rather do all the talking...

That said, my own words, "your own people". A person's culture is more than just skin color, it's shared experiences and common ancestors and obstacles that need to be overcome or that they are working to overcome. I can't possibly have a conversation from those shoes, because I am not in the. If I started to act as if I completely understand, that wouldn't be right. However, to reach a common goal, there eventually will need to trying other people's shoes on to see each other's points... however I take offense to someone who can be so disrespectful to others fighting the same fight and yet have no respect for their experience in it.

I would argue to some degree that it is self-hate. The disconnect is clear which is why I wrote my response and was so blunt about it. Sorry if it doesn't sound 'sensitive', but I'm the type that does not beat around the bush. She and I are very similar in that manner.

Anyway, her other post was deleted as well and so the only thing left was the lone extreme response and that was the one I had the emotional reaction to.



You're absolutely right. The last thing we need is more hate which is why I wrote my post. I think the other part that got taken out of context was when I mentioned people turning a blind eye. There are a few posters here who have made that clear and after a while you have to ask yourself if you'd just be fueling a pattern. She was very much allowed to write her own response, why would I tell someone what they can and cannot post? My post may have been very blunt and to the point in terms of trying to figure out if a conversation could happen, but I feel like the lines will get crossed anyway because these topics are so controversial and highly personalized.



How am I stopping anyone from expressing an opinion? I was expressing my own? That doesn't mean someone can't reply? Wow, you really can't say anything these days :laugh: Respectfully, I think my post was taken a little bit out of context because honestly I don't think that much about what I posted? :shrug: I wrote my concern about getting involved because of the observation. Sometimes people just write and write, they're not really there to be discussed with and that was my concern there.

If you look at my reply, it's fairly neutral. Some of her response was offensive, but she had her go at me and that was it. I sent her a friend request to reach out but I'm not going to go out of my way to be verbally abused when I legitimately do care about someone's POV's and wanted to strike a conversation. Her posts at times do not come off as welcoming discussion. I was afraid to take a chance? Many of her posts are outright name calling. I would love to discuss, but I'm only human and even I have a limit to what I can tolerate. I imagine some feel the same, which is why I wrote my post, to see if we could break the cycle?

Anyway, these are controversial discussions and I really feel to get anywhere, there needs to be trust and common respect. There seems to be little in this case, so I had already let it go. She had her rant at me and I wish her the best. I have no issues putting anyone on ignore so I already have her on there out of respect tbf. I did not want to be "tempted" by an intense discussion and find out it turns into verbal abuse and she didn't seem too keen on me with her reply but you can never be too sure. There is a lot of that going on in this particular section and I'd just like to avoid getting into some of the more ill language posts on here. I feel ill when I end up in passive aggressive conversations as they don't do me any world of good and they're predictable to be in anyway.

I do appreciate your words and I don't mind your "calling me out".

Edit: Opps, it turned into a large explanation. Sorry about that :laugh:
Was hoping to keep ignoring this thread all together.

''but except maybe remember that all who walked before you and beside you are working towards a common goal and that one should borrow their brothers and sister's experiences.''
This is not a fact but just an opinion. Just because we share the same hue you assume their goal must be common to mine.

''Her responses are very divisive and for me, quite disconcerting because this is a time that we should all be relying one each other.''
As divisive as anybody else's comment who doesn't share a similar opinion. You call my comments divisive but from the start some of her comments were divisive, such as stereotyping black men and assume from a police stand point that the black men stereotype must by why fear instilled in the police officer. That offended me, which since you care so much about divide is also a culprit in divide. Why stereotype a group to justify another's wrong actions? Police have to deal with terrorists, criminals from all sorts of life and some of them end up in custody alive.


''You sound pretty young. You're all over the board posting the same stuff on a bunch of topics. I've read what you've had to say and I wish I could say something constructive and try to add positively, but what I'm more worried about that you will get lost in another of your rants and that I will have wasted my time...

Some of the people here are not even willing to give you the time of the day. It may come off as intolerant in retrospect and make you feel angry, but consider too that you may be part of the problem and getting in the way of your own arguments. ''

''If she took my response as too personal and too blunt, then that is half the problem... this is a controversial topic,*it's going to be personal ''

Your whole original post was personal. Your first paragraph alone was about assuming I post just for reaction and unbravely just react on a message board, which is what you yourself are doing. Then you talked about my age as if this has any relevance and it goes on. I have no idea why whether people give me the time of the day or not came into the post? Is it something you were discussing with someone? Either way, that comment was itself to create a reaction wasn't it? If you had a problem with my side of things, just comment on that. Why take it into my age, where and how I should post and who does or doesn't give me the time of day for how I post?!



''How am I stopping anyone from expressing an opinion?''
''*Are they open to constructive thoughts or is it all just reactionary? ''

Either way my posts are it's not up to you to dictate how someone should or shouldn't post If you want to monitor that, create your own board but if you yourself touched on thoughts not being too important when posted on a message board why does it concern you that much if some of my posts are reactionary? If reactionary posts are a waste of your time from forum members, keep scrolling or perhaps you yourself should go out there and put your essays somewhere where it actually matters.

''however I take offense to someone who can be so disrespectful to others fighting the same fight and yet have no respect for their experience in it. ''

What was disrespectful about my post? My original quote that you quoted was in response to the lady saying that this is the United states-well I was pointing out things that showed that the United states isn't and hasn't really been ''UNITED'' as she claims and those were examples. In fact her quote is redundant because that is the very thing that the group she's scolding have been fighting against. ''In ALL LIVES includes black lives, we are all one race, treat us the same''. If you listen to some of Malcom X or MLK's speeches, not just the glossed over commercialiased ones, what they say sounds like it was written about an event today which shows the problem has always been there. If she wants to make a point that we should all keep fighting peacefully (not that it helps) then she can do so without being oppressive. This is where my ''reactionary'' reaction came in.



'' Some of her response was offensive, but she had her go at me and that was it.''

Tbf you had a 'go. Please don't play the victim as my replies above shows why I felt the need to have a ''go'' aswell.

''I'm not going to go out of my way to be verbally abused ''

If you felt so verbally abused why send me a friend request then? :facepalm:

''which is why I wrote my post, to see if we could break the cycle?''

Yes ''your own people'' ''at least they have the cajones'' 'this is much braver'' are great cycle breakers.

You took offence to my post, I personally take offence to people using the word abuse so loosely.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Your own people? Do we all have to be representative of whichever hue matches our own tone now? She is entitled to her opinion if you don't like it you are entitled to not read or respond Maru.

Personally I enjoy reading ITILYTs posts, if she is angry then she is angry I respect her right to voice that anger and frustration, I am more than willing to give her the time of day... I object to those who wish to subdue others however whether in person or on a message board, and I have the cajones to express that.

I hope you appreciate this.

Thank you.

[Kizzy]

Nay worries keep defending the things you are passionate about, not for the past not for the future just for you. x

[kirklancaster]

Oh no, I just say what I see about all topics...you're not special :laugh:

I'll move on when I'm good and ready..............ok, I m ready.

Is the unnecessary remark; "you're not special" a Freudian slip on your part? It mystifies me.

[Maru]

Was hoping to keep ignoring this thread all together.

Right. I find it interesting you will engage my response to the other poster, but you didn't bother to engage my other reply and let the conversation go stale where I was more conciliatory and had already confessed I didn't read the other response so I lacked the proper context to reply.

Beyond that, there's nothing else to say. The rest would just be beating a dead horse which serves no real purpose than to derail a thread further.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Right. I find it interesting you will engage my response to the other poster, but you didn't bother to engage my other reply and let the conversation go stale where I was more conciliatory and had already confessed I didn't read the other response so I lacked the proper context to reply.

Beyond that, there's nothing else to say. The rest would just be beating a dead horse which serves no real purpose than to derail a thread further.

maru dont rise to the baiting. You have expressed yourself impeccably so no need to further qualify this.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

maru dont rise to the baiting. You have expressed yourself impeccably so no need to further qualify this.

Erm excuse me why the heck are you getting involved? What baiting? Obviously I was the one ignoring her after the initial responses because I did not want to engage with her any further but as she replied to Kizzy posts today and made further accusations in her newer posts I felt the need to respond.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Right. I find it interesting you will engage my response to the other poster, but you didn't bother to engage my other reply and let the conversation go stale where I was more conciliatory and had already confessed I didn't read the other response so I lacked the proper context to reply.

Beyond that, there's nothing else to say. The rest would just be beating a dead horse which serves no real purpose than to derail a thread further.

Well on my newer post I replied to your original ask. That's my side of things. Your first ever post to me was judgmental so excuse me if I didn't particularly want to engage with you at the time.