Now, a work permit for Shilpa Shetty (press report and discussion)

[Red Moon]

Now, a work permit for Shilpa Shetty
LONDON: Bollywood star and winner of the popular reality show Celebrity Big Brother Shilpa Shetty has been granted a work permit by the British government.

Labour MP and former minister Keith Vaz wrote a covering letter for the permit application after which the British government granted Shetty the necessary work permit, enabling her to make money from lucrative personal appearances and media interviews.

"I am delighted to support her application to stay longer in the UK," said Vaz, the Leicester East MP.

The Indian actress is now in India because the original document allowing her to earn money in Britain had expired when the Channel 4 reality show came to an end two weeks ago. Shetty has now become one of Britain's most recognised faces, according to the Daily Mail newspaper.

Her show housemate Jade Goody's racist slurs had caused outrage in India and Britain and the issue was raised in the House of Commons. Feminist diva Germaine Greer and even two Indian ministers demanded corrective action.

The Indian star bagged an estimated 100,000 pounds (almost Rs.9 million) in prize money after winning the show. Shetty, who made her debut in Bollywood with the 1993 super-hit Baazigar , which also starred reigning superstar Shah Rukh Khan, never managed to touch the skies as a star. Her dance numbers were more appreciated than her emoting powers.

Source: The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Now_a_work_permit_for_Shilpa_Shetty/articleshow/1592182.cms)

[zachary]

Yay!!!!! So happpppyyy. :banana:

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by zacharybinx
Yay!!!!! So happpppyyy. :banana:

Why do you want her to have a work permit? Are you planning on employing her?

[~Kizwiz~]

Its nice to see she has got a permit to work so quickly :rolleyes:

[zachary]

Originally posted by GRiT
Originally posted by zacharybinx
Yay!!!!! So happpppyyy. :banana:

Why do you want her to have a work permit? Are you planning on employing her?

Um, no...It's just good that she'll be in the UK for longer...duh!

But... employing Shilpa as my personal assistant sounds good :lovedup:

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by zacharybinx

Um, no...It's just good that she'll be in the UK for longer...duh!

But... employing Shilpa as my personal assistant sounds good :lovedup:

It is good that she'll be in the UK. I wonder if she had to go through all the proper channels to get her work permit. I thought it took about six months to get one. She's not getting special treatment now, is she. :nono::nono:

Shilpa as your personal assistant. That seems likely. Huh. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[zachary]

Shilpa as your personal assistant. That seems likely. Huh. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, because I was being really serious (!)
:pat:

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by zacharybinx


Shilpa as your personal assistant. That seems likely. Huh. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, because I was being really serious (!)
:pat:

I know you weren't being serious. My post are simply to show that the honeymoon period is over with me. I don't think she should get any kind of special treatment when it comes to work permits. I think she should ***** off back home (I'm Joking!!!!).

She's a great ambassador and all that, but enough is enough.

[rayofsunshine]

She is different. She will bring great income and interest to the U.K. We are all not equal.

[Sasha]

Originally posted by rayofsunshine
She is different. She will bring great income and interest to the U.K. We are all not equal.

Nicey Put!

[Sasha]

By the way, Jermaine Jackson has also by passed the work permit 6 month wait, like all famous people do - including Jason Donovan, Madonna etc.

Anyone from outside the EU needs a work permit to work in the UK and its common. Properly why this piece of news didnt hit the british media

[randie]

*Post deleted- Please refrain from making racist comments and using bad language on this forum!

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by randie
*post deleted



What kind of a position are YOU in to make such sweeping generalisations. I’d like you to answer that question.

How will Shipla contribute 'more than most'? Again that's a very sweeping genaralisation. You need to explain exactly how you know how much people are contributing.

So, you’re saying that Shilpa should receive special treatment. Why? Has she cured cancer or brokered some amazing peace treaty? Therefore, you’re saying that she should receive special treatment for winning Big friggin Brother and her case should be heard before say some one who actually has done those thing. Is that what you’re stating?

[S2]

Back on topic. If you've got a problem with Shilpas' quick work permit, then take it up with the people who bypassed it so fast. On doing that, mention Jermaine Jacksons' quick visa too and all the other non UK resident celebs who have had quick visa jobs We don't want to be known as a biased person now, do we? :banana:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by rayofsunshine
She is different. She will bring great income and interest to the U.K. We are all not equal.

We're not all equal? Wtf. She's not better than ANYONE else.

She (and others) should have to go through the proper channels otherwise there's no points having the guidelines set up. We might as well just open our borders up for everyone, regardless of whether they're going to contribute to the economy or not.

[tinkerbell]

Its not fair that people get special treatment!

I agree with Lauren.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
Back on topic. If you've got a problem with Shilpas' quick work permit, then take it up with the people who bypassed it so fast. On doing that, mention Jermaine Jacksons' quick visa too and all the other non UK resident celebs who have had quick visa jobs We don't want to be known as a biased person now, do we? :banana:

I have as much of a problem with her quick work permit as I have with the others. I don't think she should receive special treatment. Me biased, I hate everybody with an equal amount.

I do object to her meeting the Queen and Blair as I think it was a political opportunity for the dignitaries and, for me, she is not worthy of such treatment. She’s only won Big friggin Brother she didn’t actually do anything worthy of the attention.

At the end of the day there is nothing I can do and if I could, I probably wouldn’t either as it has little significance to my life. However, I can comment on it on this forum and not expect certain members to react as if I’d insulted a family member.

You boy’s might need to chill out a bit or is Shilpa actually a personal friend of yours?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
If you've got a problem with Shilpas' quick work permit, then take it up with the people who bypassed it so fast.

I plan on doing that during the elections when I give my vote to David Cameron. :thumbs:

Stringent guidelines, thats what we need - not some self-obsessed pompous git who tries to please everyone equally but instead is introducing laughable policies.

:whistle: Phew.

[tinkerbell]

Originally posted by GRiT
Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
Back on topic. If you've got a problem with Shilpas' quick work permit, then take it up with the people who bypassed it so fast. On doing that, mention Jermaine Jacksons' quick visa too and all the other non UK resident celebs who have had quick visa jobs We don't want to be known as a biased person now, do we? :banana:

I have as much of a problem with her quick work permit as I have with the others. I don't think she should receive special treatment. Me biased, I hate everybody with an equal amount.

I do object to her meeting the Queen and Blair as I think it was a political opportunity for the dignitaries and, for me, she is not worthy of such treatment. She’s only won Big friggin Brother she didn’t actually do anything worthy of the attention.

At the end of the day there is nothing I can do and if I could, I probably wouldn’t either as it has little significance to my life. However, I can comment on it on this forum and not expect certain members to react as if I’d insulted a family member.

You boy’s might need to chill out a bit or is Shilpa a personal friend of yours?



Exactly. Did Chantelle get this treatment when she won CBB? no.

[S2]

Did Chantelle endure anything whilst in the house? Oh and the workout to her head on how to keep lying to the HMs doesn't count.

Meeting the PM/ Queen is out of Shilpas' control. They are the ones rolling out the offer to her. To people outside of the UK meeting the PM and the Queen is a rarity, and why shouldn't Shilpa take up this oppourtunity?

Anyways, this is a forum. You express, I express, possibly agree, possibly clash, but the next step is to move on. So good day to you too

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
Did Chantelle endure anything whilst in the house?

Shilpa hardly endured much, to be honest. :rolleyes: There's been housemates in the past that have "endured" the same name-calling as her, but now it's been slapped with the racist stamp for some reason it makes it worse?

But we're gonna have to agree to disagree cos I can't see us making any common ground on this. :tongue:

[mansi]

chantelle wasn't even a celebrity...so where did that come from tinker?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by mansi
chantelle wasn't even a celebrity...so where did that come from tinker?

Celebrities aren't better than "normal people".... ? :puzzled:

[tinkerbell]

Well she was a celebrity when she came out!! No offense no that many people knew shilpa either....

'prepares to get slashed'

[mansi]

how can you make that generalization about celebs...and what do you mean by "better"?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by mansi
how can you make that generalization about celebs...and what do you mean by "better"?

Because no-one is better than anyone else. :rolleyes: We're all humans, even celebs, surprisingly enough.
For one person to get fastracked for something that would moreso benefit others just because of their status is ridiculous and such a pathetic policy.

[mansi]

Originally posted by tinkerbell
Well she was a celebrity when she came out!! No offense no that many people knew shilpa either....

'prepares to get slashed'

you may think that the whole world revolves around your country...but i'm afraid it doesn't....shilpa has over a 100 million fans

[Lauren]

Originally posted by mansi
Originally posted by tinkerbell
Well she was a celebrity when she came out!! No offense no that many people knew shilpa either....

'prepares to get slashed'

you may think that the whole world revolves around your country...but i'm afraid it doesn't....shilpa has over a 100 million fans

Gah, not this whole argument again. I wish everyone would stop saying the UK thinks the world revolves around them :bored: BB is shown in the UK - and a very high percentage of the viewers were unaware of Shilpa and her status. :rolleyes: A lot of people knew who she was (including myself) - but just because some didn't know who she was doesn't mean they think the world revolves around "our country". :conf2:

[S2]

Originally posted by Lauren
Shilpa hardly endured much, to be honest. :rolleyes: There's been housemates in the past that have "endured" the same name-calling as her, but now it's been slapped with the racist stamp for some reason it makes it worse?

But we're going to have to agree to disagree cos I can't see us making any common ground on this. :tongue:

Shilpa got bullied. Had her accent mocked. Had he cultural beliefs questioned. Had her countrys' way of doing things questioned/ridiculed. Had racial jibes made at her. You are right, she didn't endure anything that could possibly scar her.
It got slapped with the racist stamp by nearly 50,000 people. and not all of them asian too, that speaks volumes.
Hey cool rolley eyes, whats that for?


Mansi I suggest you leave it, you don't know know what your barking with. Say good day and end it sister :dance2:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
Originally posted by Lauren
Shilpa hardly endured much, to be honest. :rolleyes: There's been housemates in the past that have "endured" the same name-calling as her, but now it's been slapped with the racist stamp for some reason it makes it worse?

But we're going to have to agree to disagree cos I can't see us making any common ground on this. :tongue:

Shilpa got bullied. Had her accent mocked. Had he cultural beliefs questioned. Had her countrys' way of doing things questioned/ridiculed. Has racial jibes made at her. You are right, she didn't endure anything that could possibly scar her.
It got slapped with the racist stamp by nearly 50,000 people. and not all of them asian too, that speaks volumes.
Hey cool rolley eyes, whats that for?


Mansi I suggest you leave it, you don't know know what your barking with. Say good day and end it sister :dance2:

Jade's accent was also mocked? (I'm not a Jade fan, just making a point).

Sorry, the rolley eyes made me look sarcastic/rude - I didn't mean it like that, I was just trying to show how in comparison to past HM's she hasn't endured much more than them.

[mansi]

jade has a heavy british accent, even I couldn't understand what the hell she was saying, as well as dirk, shilpa....well big brother would have been axed if it weren't for shilpa making staments saying that jade and the gang weren't racist.

[mansi]

how was her accent mocked?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by mansi
how was her accent mocked?

Shilpa said she couldn't understand it then did an imitation of her. Dirk also did the same thing. It was also said that she can't speak proper English.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by mansi
how was her accent mocked?

Shilpa said she couldn't understand it then did an imitation of her. Dirk also did the same thing. It was also said that she can't speak proper English.
Dirk did an impression of Danielle too. Which I have to say, was hilarious.

[S2]

Jades accent was mocked in the sense of comparision. Shilpa was comparing how she and Jade say same words, but due to accent difference, it sounded different. Whereas the covens ridiculed Shilpas' accent. Shilpa even talked about this in the Diary Room and was upset about it, but as optimistic as she is, she said "Nevermind....". If they wanted to bitch about her, why not just do it in plain english???
When Shilpa couldn't take anymore of Jackiey and was complaining to Ian and Jermaine,she did it in her own natural voice/accent. It didn't sound demeaning so much, as when the girls put on the mumbai accent and were pulling her every word/action apart

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan
Jades accent was mocked in the sense of comparision. Shilpa was comparing how she and Jade say same words, but due to accent difference, it sounded different. Whereas the covens ridiculed Shilpas' accent. Shilpa even talked about this in the Diary Room and was upset about it, but as optimistic as she is, she said "Nevermind....". If they wanted to bitch about her, why not just do it in plain english???
When Shilpa couldn't take anymore of Jackiey and was complaining to Ian and Jermaine,she did it in her own natural voice/accent. It didn't sound demeaning so much, as when the girls put on the mumbai accent and were pulling her every word/action apart

Good point.

The girls were mocking while Shilpa was simply trying to compare their accents. I think it's a question of respect and the girls were not being respectful when they imitated Shilpas accent.

[mansi]

jade, jo, and danielle all mocked shilpa so called "accent" when she was bleaching her hair....so why didn't they mock dirk's american accent??? they were racist I don;t care what the hell they say...

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by Red Moon

Labour MP and former minister Keith Vaz wrote a covering letter for the permit application after which the British government granted Shetty the necessary work permit, enabling her to make money from lucrative personal appearances and media interviews. "I am delighted to support her application to stay longer in the UK," said Vaz, the Leicester East MP.

racist slurs had caused outrage in India and Britain and the issue was raised in the House of Commons. Feminist diva Germaine Greer and even two Indian ministers demanded corrective action.

It seems Mr. Vas may have more than a passing interest, not dissimilar to Lembit Opik's.

Germaine Greer actually said that there wasn't any racism involved at all.



Originally posted by Lauren

I plan on doing that during the elections when I give my vote to David Cameron. :thumbs:

Stringent guidelines, thats what we need - not some self-obsessed pompous git who tries to please everyone equally but instead is introducing laughable policies.

So you're planning on voting for a self-obsessed pompous git who tries to please everyone equally yet has no policies whatsoever instead? How does that work, exactly? *Keeps fingers crossed that you live in a safe Labour constituency*


Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan

Shilpa got bullied.

Had her accent mocked.

Had he cultural beliefs questioned.

Had her countrys' way of doing things questioned/ridiculed.

Had racial jibes made at her.

It got slapped with the racist stamp by nearly 50,000 people. and not all of them asian too, that speaks volumes.

She was the perpetrator of bullying, every bit as much as she was the victim.

By H, too - is he also on the hit list?

What beliefs would they be, exactly? That it's acceptable to employ people as glorified slaves? That children should be beaten to ensure discipline?

What shouldn't be questioned about her country's 'way of doing things', exactly? That 160 million people in her country are considered 'untouchables'? That 56% of Indian girls aged 11 to 15 are anaemic? That 35 million Indian children receive no education? That over 5 million people have been diagnosed with H.I.V. / A.I.D.S. - 200,000 of them children under 15 years of age? That almost 1 million children have lost one or both parents to A.I.D.S? That 40% of Indian women can't read or write? That 40% of girls aged under 14 receive no education?

No, she didn't. But she certainly dished out more than enough blatant class bias of her own accord, that's for sure.

Which, given people's access to mobile phones as well as landlines, emails, sms messaging, a concerted campaign encouraging people to complain (a vast percentage of which had clearly never even seen the show, or even lived in the UK, for that matter) that lasted for several days, etc. was nothing more than a drop in the ocean. That, as you say, speaks volumes.

[James]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Originally posted by Shilpa_Fan

Shilpa got bullied.

Had her accent mocked.

Had he cultural beliefs questioned.

Had her countrys' way of doing things questioned/ridiculed.

Had racial jibes made at her.

It got slapped with the racist stamp by nearly 50,000 people. and not all of them asian too, that speaks volumes.

What beliefs would they be, exactly? That it's acceptable to employ people as glorified slaves? That children should be beaten to ensure discipline?

What shouldn't be questioned about her country's 'way of doing things', exactly? That 160 million people in her country are considered 'untouchables'? That 56% of Indian girls aged 11 to 15 are anaemic? That 35 million Indian children receive no education? That over 5 million people have been diagnosed with H.I.V. / A.I.D.S. - 200,000 of them children under 15 years of age? That almost 1 million children have lost one or both parents to A.I.D.S? That 40% of Indian women can't read or write? That 40% of girls aged under 14 receive no education?


Why would Jade et al question Shilpa about all that? They wouldn't even be capable of asking those questions. And in any case Shilpa shouldn't be looked down on over those things anymore than a British housemates deserves to be looked down on for the many injustices of this country. Or the American housemates either.

I think by 'had her cultural questioned' the previous poster was referring more to Jackiey making fun of Shilpa because she wore a sari, and the disliking Shilpa for not talking about sex and things like that. That is belittling someones cultural beliefs .

[CharlotteSometimes]

Firstly, she recited her lengthy list of 'employees' while she was in the house. We all saw how uncomfortable Jade was with the task, as is the norm for most right-thinking working class people. The employment of servants is morally reprehensible, and even Jade is savvy enough to appreciate as much. And secondly, there was a conversation when Jermaine was discussing the way his father used to beat him and his siblings during their childhoods (which is also well documented elsewhere). Shilpa completely misjudged his comments, and replied as though in agreement with something that could be considered good practice, and used the awful 'spare the rod, spoil the child' adage. Those are beliefs that justify challenge from anyone. Jade and/or the others may not have been present when those particular conversations took place. But there's every possibility that they were during other, similar conversations.

Saying that they 'wouldn't be capable' is every bit as prejudiced as some would claim the three girls to have been. We only saw a snapshot, we don't know them and we don't know what they are or are not aware of. Jade certainly suggested during the more heated part of her argument that she had at least some insight into the Indian way of life. And yes, Shilpa should indeed be looked down on over those things. We all have different moral values, and greed in the face of poverty is something I'm not prepared to overlook, just because Shilpa plays the part of the dignified victim with much aplomb. Absolute poverty to such degrees doesn't exist in either Britain or America. Shilpa lives in the lap of luxury in a penthouse, with a retinue of servants waiting on her hand and foot. Meanwhile, people in her own country suffer a lifetime of state-sanctioned abuse and torment. There are literally people starving in the streets in some areas, and entire communities surviving on the pickings from rubbish dumps. To live in ignorant bliss of such social injustice and do nothing at all about it is beyond contempt.

I'm not aware of the sari comments, and wasn't even thinking of Jade's mum in relation to this thread, either. She's not one of the three scapegoats, after all. Shilpa's reaction to the conversation about sex and the losing of virginity was overblown and out of proportion. She put a spin on it that never existed, and could easily have not commented at all, or even left the room. But that side of Shilpa was soon proved to be a sham, in any case. We saw that as soon as she was asked to pose for the tabloids, and her hypocrisy when the article about her mocking black people on an Indian tv show came out, too.

[mansi]

^
she didn't recite them, she was asked at the table...she's a celebrity so obviously she's going to have people that look after her just the way celebs have in hollywood...
she didn't say it was a good thing to beat children....they don't beat children now in india...maybe in some parts buts that's rare now....
shilpa isn't mother teresa to go around and help the underprivileged, how is it her fault that people are starving, dying from diseases?
Jackiey got away with the remarks she made about shilpa, saying how she would chase her with an Indian broom, why indian broom??? the comment about the indian shawl. she was ignorant and that came across when she couldn't pronounce shilpa's name...and kept calling shilpa by "the indian".....
she said she was a nightmare....shilpa kept quiet despite the fact that she's a celeb and jackiey is a nobody...

[CharlotteSometimes]

She still listed them, and it was still ludicrous to have so many. But when their services can be obtained so cheaply, in every sense of the word, it must be difficult not to be greedy.

That's pretty much exactly what she said. It was a clear endorsement of physically punishing children. The rest of India doesn't come into it at this point - it was her own personal endorsement.

It's not 'her fault'. But to surround yourself with wealth while your own people suffer is just plain wrong. It's the Marie Antoinette aspect that grates.

As I said in reply to James earlier in the thread, I've no intention of defending Jade's mum or her actions. That has nothing to do with the other three, who are the ones who have been singled out.

[mansi]

^actually it's quite common to have many there in the east, non-celebs have servants as well....when I go there, we have people that wash our clothes, drive us around and what not.... what do you want her to do, give away money? it very easy for you to say all of this but if you were in her spot you would be the same...

you can't say it's wrong to beat children just because you've grown up in the west...in the east it was common to beat as they felt it would teach children discipline...if she did happen to say that beating children is fine then there's nothing wrong with that, she was just stating her opinion...
it may seem as if there are many suffering in India in comparison to the UK, but the UK only has 60 million people whereas india has over 1 billion people...I stand correct, she can't do anything about it...infact I would say she's doing them good because there are many that are unemployed and are willing to do just about anything....she also said she doesn't treat them like servants

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Saying that they 'wouldn't be capable' is every bit as prejudiced as some would claim the three girls to have been. We only saw a snapshot, we don't know them and we don't know what they are or are not aware of. Jade certainly suggested during the more heated part of her argument that she had at least some insight into the Indian way of life.

Erm...no it isn't prejudiced. As you yourself have said, Jo made cultural gaffes in the house. She clearly showed herself to be ignorant of Asian culture. I'm not even going to pretend that Jade might have much going on between her ears - even Jade herself would admit that she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer ("why don't Eskimos turn into ice people?"). If any of the girls had asked for Shilpa's opinions on any of the problems in India that you listed, it would have been fair enough, and a reasonable question to ask. They didn't - they weren't even interested in her culture, except as a reason to get at her.

And if we only saw a snapshot of those girls - we only saw a snapshot of Shilpa as well. But you seem prepared to make several judgements about her.

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by mansi
^actually it's quite common to have many there in the east, non-celebs have servants as well....when I go there, we have people that wash our clothes, drive us around and what not.... what do you want her to do, give away money? it very easy for you to say all of this but if you were in her spot you would be the same...

you can't say it's wrong to beat children just because you've grown up in the west...in the east it was common to beat as they felt it would teach children discipline...if she did happen to say that beating children is fine then there's nothing wrong with that, she was just stating her opinion...
it may seem as if there are many suffering in India in comparison to the UK, but the UK only has 60 million people whereas india has over 1 billion people...I stand correct, she can't do anything about it...infact I would say she's doing them good because there are many that are unemployed and are willing to do just about anything....she also said she doesn't treat them like servants

It used to be quite common to send small children up chimneys and down coal mines, too. That doesn't make it right. Yes, I want her to give away money. Vast, enormous amounts of money. But no, I wouldn't be the same. I wouldn't even eat in a restaurant, because I don't think it's morally right to sit around while someone waits on you.

Everything is wrong with it! There's no justification to ever beat a defenceless child! I can't believe you've posted such nonsense. The size of the population isn't the point, it's the unequal distribution of wealth that's the problem. Of course not everyone in Britain is rolling around in cash. But nobody is literally starving to death or scavenging on rubbish tips for food, either. There's food and resources there to stop it, but it won't end while the wealthy turn their backs on their own people.

[tinkerbell]

Originally posted by mansi
Originally posted by tinkerbell
Well she was a celebrity when she came out!! No offense no that many people knew shilpa either....

'prepares to get slashed'

you may think that the whole world revolves around your country...but i'm afraid it doesn't....shilpa has over a 100 million fans


Are you kidding me, you dont even kow where i come from...

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by Ruth

Erm...no it isn't prejudiced. As you yourself have said, Jo made cultural gaffes in the house. She clearly showed herself to be ignorant of Asian culture. I'm not even going to pretend that Jade might have much going on between her ears - even Jade herself would admit that she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer ("why don't Eskimos turn into ice people?"). If any of the girls had asked for Shilpa's opinions on any of the problems in India that you listed, it would have been fair enough, and a reasonable question to ask. They didn't - they weren't even interested in her culture, except as a reason to get at her.

And if we only saw a snapshot of those girls - we only saw a snapshot of Shilpa as well. But you seem prepared to make several judgements about her.

Yeah, she did. But to automatically presume that the three of them knew absolutely nothing is prejudiced. Unless you were there whenever any of them were talking, 24 hours a day, of course. All of the hm's have said that certain things weren't shown, including the supposed 'good guys'. Wouldn't your average English/British person be equally as naive about her culture? For all we know, they could've asked her plenty about her culture. Did she ask them about theirs?

Indeed. I don't think that she's a bad person at all. Much like anyone else, she has her good points and her bad points, too. But she's been painted as almost serene, somehow floating in a special aura that exists just for her. That's what I'm objecting to, because she hasn't done anything to justify being elevated to some kind of cod-sainthood. She sneered at Jade and her family from the very moment they walked into the house, before they'd had any opportunity to even settle in. She was exceptionally patronising towards them and towards Danielle, too. As previously mentioned, her views concerning the discipline of children were repugnant. And she frequently bitched about the three girls with Jermaine and at times with Dirk and H, too. It's simply not fair to criticise the actions of the other housemates without admitting that Shilpa has her flaws, too.

[expat]

Charlotte Sometimes needs to calm down and have a curry. You need to look around at THIS society and examine what YOUR way of disciplining kids etc has in fact produced. You are judging things from a western point of view,or at least a very 'British' one, which by the way, with respect to visible outcomes is, by statistics, THE WORST in the world, check it out.

[James]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Firstly, she recited her lengthy list of 'employees' while she was in the house. We all saw how uncomfortable Jade was with the task, as is the norm for most right-thinking working class people. The employment of servants is morally reprehensible, and even Jade is savvy enough to appreciate as much.
This is all very self-righteous.

I'm sure Jade employs nannys, cleaners, bodyguards etc. to help her - 'servants' by any other name.
Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Saying that they 'wouldn't be capable' is every bit as prejudiced as some would claim the three girls to have been. We only saw a snapshot, we don't know them and we don't know what they are or are not aware of. Jade certainly suggested during the more heated part of her argument that she had at least some insight into the Indian way of life.
They wouldn't be capable because they have no knowledge of such matters let alone alone an interest. This is Jade 'Is East Angular abroad?' Goody we are talking about here. Those three girls (and Jack and Jackiey) didn't have the slightest inclination to discuss weighty subjects of that nature in the house (maybe they should have given them access to the Wikipedia website or something so they could fire off a few stats!). Nothing to do with prejudice - just observed behaviour.
Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
And yes, Shilpa should indeed be looked down on over those things. We all have different moral values, and greed in the face of poverty is something I'm not prepared to overlook, just because Shilpa plays the part of the dignified victim with much aplomb. Absolute poverty to such degrees doesn't exist in either Britain or America. Shilpa lives in the lap of luxury in a penthouse, with a retinue of servants waiting on her hand and foot. Meanwhile, people in her own country suffer a lifetime of state-sanctioned abuse and torment. There are literally people starving in the streets in some areas, and entire communities surviving on the pickings from rubbish dumps. To live in ignorant bliss of such social injustice and do nothing at all about it is beyond contempt.
Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Yes, I want her to give away money. Vast, enormous amounts of money.
Hang on a sec... Jade lives in the lap of luxury while absolute poverty exists around the world. Should she have to give her money away / sell all her possessions etc by this logic? What difference does it make that Shilpa lives in the same country where absolute poverty exists. Aren't we in the west equally morally responsible. In fact to extend the sanctimoniusness for a second shouldn't ordinary people in this country give away their money to alleviate poverty rather than spend money on all the useless stuff that we buy.
Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Of course not everyone in Britain is rolling around in cash. But nobody is literally starving to death or scavenging on rubbish tips for food, either. There's food and resources there to stop it, but it won't end while the wealthy turn their backs on their own people.
Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
But to surround yourself with wealth while your own people suffer is just plain wrong. It's the Marie Antoinette aspect that grates.
Shilpa isn't a Queen who rules a country or even a politician - in fact as I mentioned before the people of India - and all other parts of the world - are as much our 'own people' as they are to a fellow Indian. We're all part of the human race.

And by employing people at least she is redistributing her wealth as part of the economy. Countries generally become wealthier by having successful businesses like the film industry for instance.

.....

I doubt many people agree that being served in a restaurant is morally wrong either.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by mansi
how was her accent mocked?

Shilpa said she couldn't understand it then did an imitation of her. Dirk also did the same thing. It was also said that she can't speak proper English.

have you heard Jade? She can't speak proper English!

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Originally posted by Ruth

Erm...no it isn't prejudiced. As you yourself have said, Jo made cultural gaffes in the house. She clearly showed herself to be ignorant of Asian culture. I'm not even going to pretend that Jade might have much going on between her ears - even Jade herself would admit that she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer ("why don't Eskimos turn into ice people?"). If any of the girls had asked for Shilpa's opinions on any of the problems in India that you listed, it would have been fair enough, and a reasonable question to ask. They didn't - they weren't even interested in her culture, except as a reason to get at her.

And if we only saw a snapshot of those girls - we only saw a snapshot of Shilpa as well. But you seem prepared to make several judgements about her.

Yeah, she did. But to automatically presume that the three of them knew absolutely nothing is prejudiced. Unless you were there whenever any of them were talking, 24 hours a day, of course. All of the hm's have said that certain things weren't shown, including the supposed 'good guys'. Wouldn't your average English/British person be equally as naive about her culture? For all we know, they could've asked her plenty about her culture. Did she ask them about theirs?

Considering Jade thought Cambridge was in London, 'East Angular' was abroad, and she didn't know who George Bush or Tony Blair are, it's not a hard stretch to realise that she's not going to have a clue about Asian culture.

Did Shilpa ask them about their culture? Well, I don't know. Unless you were there whenever any of them were talking, 24 hours a day, of course - you couldn't know either.

Indeed. I don't think that she's a bad person at all. Much like anyone else, she has her good points and her bad points, too. But she's been painted as almost serene, somehow floating in a special aura that exists just for her. That's what I'm objecting to, because she hasn't done anything to justify being elevated to some kind of cod-sainthood.

I'm not a particular fan of Shilpa. But I do think she handled herself with grace and dignity. I doubt that Jade could even spell grace or dignity. If that makes me prejudiced, so be it.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Germaine Greer actually said that there wasn't any racism involved at all.


Is Germaine the mighty oracle then? Does something have to be true, because she said it?

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Saying that they 'wouldn't be capable' is every bit as prejudiced as some would claim the three girls to have been. We only saw a snapshot, we don't know them and we don't know what they are or are not aware of. Jade certainly suggested during the more heated part of her argument that she had at least some insight into the Indian way of life.
Did she? I don't remember that.

And yes, Shilpa should indeed be looked down on over those things. We all have different moral values, and greed in the face of poverty is something I'm not prepared to overlook, just because Shilpa plays the part of the dignified victim with much aplomb. Absolute poverty to such degrees doesn't exist in either Britain or America.

Believe me, there are people living in apalling conditions in this country. And there are people in this country who have servants too. Are they all morally reprehensible? Am I morally reprehensible because I enjoy pastimes that cost money, while other people have no money whatsoever?

Shilpa's reaction to the conversation about sex and the losing of virginity was overblown and out of proportion. She put a spin on it that never existed, and could easily have not commented at all, or even left the room.

No, it wasn't overblown. She didn't get angry or pick a fight or anything. It was pretty obvious that she did not wish to discuss her virginity or her sex life. That was her perogative, regardless of her culture or background. She tried to answer the question while not touching on the subject of her sexual history. But Jade wouldn't let it lie. It's certainly possible that Jade didn't have the intelligence to see that Shilpa was uncomfortable discussing it, because Jade is not the exactly the cleverest housemate ever is she? But I think it more likely that she just wanted to make Shilpa say it, because it was obvious that Shilpa was not happy talking about it. If Shilpa had left the room or not commented, people would have been criticising her for that as well!

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by James

This is all very self-righteous.

I'm sure Jade employs nannys, cleaners, bodyguards etc. to help her - 'servants' by any other name.

They wouldn't be capable because they have no knowledge of such matters let alone alone an interest. This is Jade 'Is East Angular abroad?' Goody we are talking about here. Those three girls (and Jack and Jackiey) didn't have the slightest inclination to discuss weighty subjects of that nature in the house (maybe they should have given them access to the Wikipedia website or something so they could fire off a few stats!). Nothing to do with prejudice - just observed behaviour.

Hang on a sec... Jade lives in the lap of luxury while absolute poverty exists around the world. Should she have to give her money away / sell all her possessions etc by this logic? What difference does it make that Shilpa lives in the same country where absolute poverty exists. Aren't we in the west equally morally responsible. In fact to extend the sanctimoniusness for a second shouldn't ordinary people in this country give away their money to alleviate poverty rather than spend money on all the useless stuff that we buy.

Shilpa isn't a Queen who rules a country or even a politician - in fact as I mentioned before the people of India - and all other parts of the world - are as much our 'own people' as they are to a fellow Indian. We're all part of the human race.

And by employing people at least she is redistributing her wealth as part of the economy. Countries generally become wealthier by having successful businesses like the film industry for instance.

.....

I doubt many people agree that being served in a restaurant is morally wrong either.

It's not at all, James. It's the complete opposite, in fact. But the same could be said about your admittance that you judge people on their past actions, and don't care to give them a clean slate. I don't know you from Adam, or anything in the main about your beliefs and values either, for that matter. In my way of looking at things, everyone deserves a little respect and basic human dignity, until they do something to warrant that privilege being withdrawn. I don't like having people scurrying around at my beck and call. It's belittling, and nobody deserves to be treated in that manner nor has the right to treat others in that way, either. There would be an ever-so-slightly enormous difference in their salaries though, don't you think? It would be good to see a clip of that moment. I can remember several different professions, and wasn't it three chauffeurs? Completely necessary and not suggestive of a rather spoilt individual at all, I'm sure.

This you assume, rather than know as a fact. It would seem that lens you observed events through is somewhat stained with newsprint.

She lives in a house, rather than a penthouse. And 'around the world' doesn't cut it - shifting the goalposts doesn't, either. Shilpa made her fortune from her own people, and she should feel duty bound to redress the balance. Jade made her money in the UK, where absolute poverty does not exist. She's not supporting and endorsing a state which allows people to suffer while she sits back and counts her cash. Using words such as 'sanctimoniusness' is a little rich (no pun intended) when you seemingly consider poverty so very amusing. Some people's consciences run a little deeper than drawing the curtains and telling themselves everything's alright in the world, as long as they're happy.

No, she isn't. She just has a tendency to expect to be treated like a princess. Trying to play the snide racist card is very poor form. The 'we're all members of the human race' scenario is nothing more than a soundbite. You know quite well that there's very little any external government, coalition or charity, etc. could do about the situation, as it's enshrined in the country's caste system. I'm surprised that you've time to type a reply, though. Don't you need to pack and fly out to fight for the salvation of the forgotten in some far distant land, or something? Excuse the sarcasm, but it's catching after encountering it at every line in your post, at the expense of actually addressing the point.

But you're assuming that they're paid wages that would allow that to be the case. It's just a shame that it's so expensive to go to the cinema in India that most can't afford it.

I really don't care, James. I have my moral values, and you no doubt have your own. I can sleep soundly at night. It's not my business to know whether anyone else who reads this thread can do the same or not.

[CharlotteSometimes]

Originally posted by Ruth

Considering Jade thought Cambridge was in London, 'East Angular' was abroad, and she didn't know who George Bush or Tony Blair are, it's not a hard stretch to realise that she's not going to have a clue about Asian culture.

Did Shilpa ask them about their culture? Well, I don't know. Unless you were there whenever any of them were talking, 24 hours a day, of course - you couldn't know either.

I'm not a particular fan of Shilpa. But I do think she handled herself with grace and dignity. I doubt that Jade could even spell grace or dignity. If that makes me prejudiced, so be it.

Gosh, is it International Sarcasm Day today and I've somehow missed it, Ruth? I won't reply in kind, as I've more respect for you than that.

Do you not have any friends or associates who perhaps aren't blessed with a great deal of intelligence, Ruth? If so, I'd bet you don't view them with such disdain. It's not Jade's fault that she's not exactly rocket scientist material, is it?

I think she did too, for the most part. Although with her tongue pressed firmly into her cheek.

Originally posted by Ruth

Is Germaine the mighty oracle then? Does something have to be true, because she said it?

If you look at the article I quoted Ruth, it suggests that she supported the racism allegations, when in fact she denounced them.


Originally posted by Ruth

Did she? I don't remember that.

Believe me, there are people living in apalling conditions in this country. And there are people in this country who have servants too. Are they all morally reprehensible? Am I morally reprehensible because I enjoy pastimes that cost money, while other people have no money whatsoever?

No, it wasn't overblown. She didn't get angry or pick a fight or anything. It was pretty obvious that she did not wish to discuss her virginity or her sex life. That was her perogative, regardless of her culture or background. She tried to answer the question while not touching on the subject of her sexual history. But Jade wouldn't let it lie. It's certainly possible that Jade didn't have the intelligence to see that Shilpa was uncomfortable discussing it, because Jade is not the exactly the cleverest housemate ever is she? But I think it more likely that she just wanted to make Shilpa say it, because it was obvious that Shilpa was not happy talking about it. If Shilpa had left the room or not commented, people would have been criticising her for that as well!

Yes, she did. It was one of the lines that was twisted afterwards, when Jade mentioned 'slums'.

Nobody is living in abject poverty here, unless they've removed themselves from society for whatever reason. Yes, there are some in that situation. But they're not beyond help - and I'm not expanding on that any further and being drawn into a sideways argument. Suffice to say that there are support systems in place for those in need. And I've yet to see entire villages of people living on rubbish dumps in this country. That reads as though I have a problem with those people, when I don't. It's their government which allows it to happen in the first place that I have a problem with. And yeah, people who 'employ' servants are morally reprehensible. As for you personally, I don't know. Do you earn your living from a vast number of people who admire and look up to you?

It was overblown, because she could've removed herself from the conversation or even the room whenever she wanted to. She stayed willingly, ergo she didn't actually have quite as much of a problem with it as she suggested. It was a fuss about nothing. A fuss for the sake of a fuss.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Gosh, is it International Sarcasm Day today and I've somehow missed it, Ruth? I won't reply in kind, as I've more respect for you than that.

Do you not have any friends or associates who perhaps aren't blessed with a great deal of intelligence, Ruth? If so, I'd bet you don't view them with such disdain. It's not Jade's fault that she's not exactly rocket scientist material, is it?

I didn't criticise Jade for being stupid. I was just stating that she is stupid. Did I say it was a bad thing?

No, it's not International Sarcasm Day today. I don't think what I wrote was any more sarcastic than most of your posts tbh! But I'm not trying to have an argument.

I have plenty of friends, but none of them are remotely like Jade.

[CharlotteSometimes]

Well you mention it a heck of a lot, and it's really not anything that anyone is going to doubt or doesn't already know. So yes, if it's mentioned in a dismissive post then it comes across as though it's meant as 'a bad thing'.

I wouldn't say that I've been at all sarcastic towards you today.

Fair enough, you're not obliged to answer questions, of course. But that wasn't really what I asked, was it? What is Jade like, including all of the bits that happened outside of the argument with Shilpa, and her conversations with Danielle and Jo?

[Ruth]

Originally posted by CharlotteSometimes
Well you mention it a heck of a lot, and it's really not anything that anyone is going to doubt or doesn't already know. So yes, if it's mentioned in a dismissive post then it comes across as though it's meant as 'a bad thing'.

I wouldn't say that I've been at all sarcastic towards you today.

Fair enough, you're not obliged to answer questions, of course. But that wasn't really what I asked, was it? What is Jade like, including all of the bits that happened outside of the argument with Shilpa, and her conversations with Danielle and Jo? I mentioned it in relation to the fact that you said that she may have asked Shilpa about her culture, but we didn't see it. Yes, it's possible, but the point I was trying to make was that it was unlikely, given Jade's level of intelligence. I wasn't saying that it was a bad thing that she was stupid - I mentioned it only because I was illustrating that I thought it was unlikely that she had asked Shilpa any in depth conversations about her culture. Do I mention it a heck of a lot? I wasn't aware of that. I would only ever intend to mention it if it was relevant to the thread I was posting in.

Any disdain I show towards Jade is not anything to do with what I think of her IQ - just what I think of her attitude.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to avoid answering any questions.:puzzled: