One dead, five injured in Russell Square, London stabbing

[Shaun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36972126

A woman has died and five others were injured in a knife attack in Russell Square, central London.

Police and ambulance crews were called at 22:33 BST on Wednesday to reports of a man in possession of a knife and injuring people.

Up to six injured people were found at the scene; one woman was pronounced dead a short time later.

The man was arrested at 22:39; a taser was discharged by one of the arresting officers.

Terrorism is one possible motive being explored, the Metropolitan Police say.

[T*]

****ing terrifying... My anxiety is going to be super high this weekend.
Thoughts with them all

[Samm]

RIP to the women, hope the injured survive :(

[Ninastar]

Oh no :sad: really hope this isn't terrorism. Rip to the person who died

[reece(:]

Omg I've stayed in a hotel there before :worry: RIP

[EspeonBB]

Omg I was there a few weeks ago. RIP to the person who died </3

[Ninastar]

****ing terrifying... My anxiety is going to be super high this weekend.
Thoughts with them all

Just be extra vigilant. look for exits as soon as you go into a shop and stuff. I'd be so scared if I were you too, but hopefully there will be twice as much security now

[Ross.]

RIP to the woman who died, the world is really becoming quite a scary place

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

RIP
Just the other day I was in a building and I was in room on 3rd floor all the way to the end of a long corridor and I thought to myself if terrorists came in here with guns where would I hide? Cupboards were full, couldn't hide under the table, too high to jump out the window...this was random. The point is scary times and no just wish Isis :(

[T*]

Just be extra vigilant. look for exits as soon as you go into a shop and stuff. I'd be so scared if I were you too, but hopefully there will be twice as much security now

Will do :love:
I actually started doing this when I'm going places like the cinema in my small ass town

[bots]

i hope this isnt a terrorist attack, but it looks suspiciously like it

[Shaun]

Seen most on Twitter referring to it as gang-related... but then obviously that's just Twitter.

[LaLaLand]

****ing terrifying... My anxiety is going to be super high this weekend.
Thoughts with them all

In a really sick way you're lucky that this has happened as I'd imagine, if this turns out to be an act of terror and what with all the threats, that London security will be really ramped up so you should feel safer than ever when you're there.

Honestly just don't let it bother you - go about your business, enjoy yourself, have fun and do what you want. If you fear them they've won. London is a VERY big place and the chance of being caught up in something like this is very slim.

RIP to the lady. What a world we live in, sickening.

[T*]

In a really sick way you're lucky that this has happened as I'd imagine, if this turns out to be an act of terror and what with all the threats, that London security will be really ramped up so you should feel safer than ever when you're there.

Honestly just don't let it bother you - go about your business, enjoy yourself, have fun and do what you want. If you fear them they've won. London is a VERY big place and the chance of being caught up in something like this is very slim.

RIP to the lady. What a world we live in, sickening.



I was actually thinking this
If this is something to do with terror- in a horrible way- at least it's over and done with, if that sort of makes sense...

[Daniel-X]

RIP :sad: the world really is becoming a scary place.

[arista]

Yes could be Gang related

The Punk Arrested.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/04/03/article-3722796-36DB9E7700000578-22_964x412.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/terrorism-not-ruled-out-in-deadly-knife-attack-10522062

[Novo]

London far to scummy to be the Capital, give it to Liverpool instead

[Jason.]

That's awful. RIP :sad:

[Ammi]

Early indications suggest mental health is a significant factor in this case and that is one major line of inquiry.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/mass-stabbing-in-central-london-leaves-woman-dead-and-five-injured/ar-BBve9cw?ocid=spartandhp


...jeez her poor family, just inconceivable to image their world atm...


...Tom though, this will be one of the safest times to be in London...you'll be absolutely fine..try not to worry and spoil your time there and your plans..:hug:..

[arista]

London far to scummy to be the Capital, give it to Liverpool instead


Liverpool could be a Jr. Capital


London Stays Number 1

[AnnieK]

Awful news again to wake up to. RIP to the lady who lost her life and a speedy recovery to the injured

It is a scary world at the moment. I was at Old Trafford last night with 60 odd thousand other people and other than a quick bag search there wasn't much security and one of my first thoughts were that someone could do some serious damage in a place like that as you're so packed in. I refuse to let terror win though .....

[Cherie]

Awful news again to wake up to. RIP to the lady who lost her life and a speedy recovery to the injured

It is a scary world at the moment. I was at Old Trafford last night with 60 odd thousand other people and other than a quick bag search there wasn't much security and one of my first thoughts were that someone could do some serious damage in a place like that as you're so packed in. I refuse to let terror win though .....


I agree Annie

[the truth]

thank goodness we are not surrounded by 7 or 8 open land borders like france and other EU nations...that thought simply underlines how insane the EU open borders masterplan is and how infinitely harder, nay impossible the EU have made the job for the police and counter terrorism / secret services

imagine trying to catch a rat , to stop him entering a property and if he does get inside they trying to kill him before he leaves, ok so you set your traps but then the owner of the property says you cant close holes , so then try stopping/catching the rat with 100 holes in the walls? guess what your job has just become impossible and you will be chasing rats through holes for the rest of your life

[Livia]

London far to scummy to be the Capital, give it to Liverpool instead

Novo offending 9 million people in one fell swoop.

[Northern Monkey]

London far to scummy to be the Capital, give it to Liverpool instead:joker:

(Cos Liverpool's much nicer):laugh:

[arista]

Novo offending 9 million people in one fell swoop.


He is a scally wag

[Livia]

The message from IS to Muslims all over the world is for them to act to kill infidels. People with mental health problems are the ideal candidates for that message... but that doesn't mean it isn't terrorism. It's the instant denial that makes me angry. Why not say nothing rather than imply it's anything else but terrorism when the likelihood is that is was carried out in the name of IS.

And Sadiq Khan... "I urge Londoners to remain calm & vigilant". Unnecessary advice.

[Livia]

He is a scally wag

He is... I've often thought Novo needs a good spanking.

[Will.]

Really sad :(

RIP to the woman who died.

[Cherie]

the killer is a Norwegian national of Somali origin, the women that died is an American national

[Suze]

One of my sister's lives right opposite Russell Square Station in the Brunswick flats, she doesn't use the tubes though, but family who visit her do. I tend to get off at Kings cross and walk to hers from there rather than mess about with the one stop from Kings Cross to Russell Square

[Cherie]

One of my sister's lives right opposite Russell Square Station in the Brunswick flats, she doesn't use the tubes though, but family who visit her do. I tend to get off at Kings cross and walk to hers from there rather than mess about with the one stop from Kings Cross to Russell Square

I don't think this happened on the tube Suze

[Suze]

I don't think this happened on the tube Suze


Thanks Cherie, I don't know why I assumed it had, I was just thinking of the crowds there so jumped to that conclusion.

[arista]

the killer is a Norwegian national of Somali origin, the women that died is an American national



Yes a Crazy Somali


Had enough of Norway
Picked a USA person to Murder??????

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

****ing terrifying... My anxiety is going to be super high this weekend.
Thoughts with them all

I know people say being vigilant is useless but it could help for example I was in rush hour on the tube, literally couldn't move but a man as tall as the tube stood in front of me he had a huge black coat which was fine BUT it's wasn't that cold, he was acting nervous, had shifty eyes and he smelled of some sort of substance. I got the hell out the next stop. :D

2 Russian men left their bags on one end of the tube and went to sit at the other end. People wondered why and paid attention.

Try to think if they're going to bomb a tube are they more likely to bomb the middle to seperate the train which means you could have a chance if you sit at the very last carriage or the front. Just be attentive. If you're in a crowded area for a while scope out the exits etc.


Have fun :D

[Cherie]

Yes a Crazy Somali


Had enough of Norway
Picked a USA person to Murder??????

Yeah I wonder if they are playing this down i

[arista]

Yeah I wonder if they are playing this down i


Police say at his flat
nothing to do with Isis?

But I want to know
Why murder a USA Person?


he will go to Court Charged with Murder
and the attack the others near that Dead person

[MB.]

Police believe the attack in Russell Square on Wednesday was "spontaneous", with victims "selected at random".

Not sure which part of that you're not getting, Arista

[arista]

Not sure which part of that you're not getting, Arista


Police "Believe"
Thats Fecking Guess Work

MB - You and I -- were not there,
at that time.

[Jamie89]

I was out near there last night :worry: So sad for the victim and her loved ones :sad:

[letmein]

Police "Believe"
Thats Fecking Guess Work

MB - You and I -- were not there,
at that time.

Perhaps, based on evidence collected.

[user104658]

There are thousands of horrific crimes committed across the globe every single day, and the vast majority have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. When are we, therefore, going to stop assuming that every attack is terrorism-related as soon as the story breaks? It's illogical, paranoid, and surefire proof that terrorism is working. People see terrorist faces lurking in every corner even when there are none... This is aim of terrorism. Small scale attacks to encourage wide reaching fear.

We DON'T have to prefix every thread with "...might be terrorism" before the facts are known! The facts tend to come to light well within 24 hours. IF it then seems like it could be terror related, start posting the "Immigrants! Borders! Refugees! Oh my!" if you absolutely must but the fact that it comes pouring in long before the motives are even vaguely clear, is straight up ridiculous.

[Kizzy]

Well said TS the paranoia is tangible, there is no reasoning with people who make up their minds about an issue within the first minuet of hearing of it, even when faced with the truth the scenario they dreamed is still the preferred version.... :/

[Cherie]

I'm the last person anyone could accuse of paranoia, this is the second knife attack on the public in London in recent months that has been attributed to mental health, I have lived in London for years so I'm entitled to ask questions as to whether we are being told the truth, the streets were flooded with armed police only the day before the attack even though the UK has been in high alert for years and yes TS killings have been going on for years blah blah but random knife attacks on members of the public in crowded areas are not as common as you north of the border might assume. I agree that people should wait for the facts before assuming terror, that said I don't think we need to lap up every thing we are told either.

[Ammi]

The woman killed in the Russell Square knife rampage, in which a man stabbed six people at random, has been named as Darlene Horton.

The 64-year-old is the only person to have died in the central London attack, late on Wednesday evening, when a man began attacking people at random at around 10.30pm.


The Metropolitan Police said they had arrested a 19-year-old Norwegian national of Somali descent on suspicion of Horton’s murder. He is still in custody. Sky News has named him as Zakaria Bulhan.


Horton and her husband Richard Wagner were in London for a summer course and were due to return to the US on Thursday.


Florida State University, where Wagner is a psychology scholar, issued a statement saying: “There are no words to express our heartache over this terrible tragedy.”


Police had earlier said there was no evidence the attack was related to terrorism but was “triggered by mental health issues”.


A British man, who suffered a stab wound to his stomach, remains in hospital. Police said his condition was serious but stable.


They also confirmed the injuries and nationalities of the other victims, who have all been discharged from hospital. They are:



- An American man, who suffered a stab wound to his chest.


- An Australian woman, who suffered a stab wound to her back.


- An Australian woman, who suffered a stab wound to his chest.


- An Israeli woman, who suffered a stab wound to her bicep.


One witness revealed the last panic-stricken words of Horton.

The witness, who used towels in an attempt to halt the blood pouring from the victim’s wounds, said: “I was just trying to console and help her.


“The victim said something about, ‘He’s still here, he’s still here’. After that she was not lucid,” the Evening Standard reports.


Police originally said officers were pursuing terrorism as a “line of inquiry”, but subsequent statements have omitted any mention of terrorism.


An eyewitness said he believed the victims were speaking in Spanish prior to the stabbing.


The witness, called Michael, told MailOnline: “I heard a scream, and then we went to the park and I saw a girl lying on the floor with blood coming from her back. Another girl had blood on her arm.”


He added: “They all spoke Spanish so I guess they were a group. I only saw the victim and the girl with the arm stabbed from that group.


“I just saw blood just next to her. She was lying on the floor with a friend hugging her.”



http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBvgOqi.img?h=768&w=1366&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

[Cherie]

The woman killed in the Russell Square knife rampage, in which a man stabbed six people at random, has been named as Darlene Horton.

The 64-year-old is the only person to have died in the central London attack, late on Wednesday evening, when a man began attacking people at random at around 10.30pm.


The Metropolitan Police said they had arrested a 19-year-old Norwegian national of Somali descent on suspicion of Horton’s murder. He is still in custody. Sky News has named him as Zakaria Bulhan.


Horton and her husband Richard Wagner were in London for a summer course and were due to return to the US on Thursday.


Florida State University, where Wagner is a psychology scholar, issued a statement saying: “There are no words to express our heartache over this terrible tragedy.”


Police had earlier said there was no evidence the attack was related to terrorism but was “triggered by mental health issues”.


A British man, who suffered a stab wound to his stomach, remains in hospital. Police said his condition was serious but stable.


They also confirmed the injuries and nationalities of the other victims, who have all been discharged from hospital. They are:



- An American man, who suffered a stab wound to his chest.


- An Australian woman, who suffered a stab wound to her back.


- An Australian woman, who suffered a stab wound to his chest.


- An Israeli woman, who suffered a stab wound to her bicep.


One witness revealed the last panic-stricken words of Horton.

The witness, who used towels in an attempt to halt the blood pouring from the victim’s wounds, said: “I was just trying to console and help her.


“The victim said something about, ‘He’s still here, he’s still here’. After that she was not lucid,” the Evening Standard reports.


Police originally said officers were pursuing terrorism as a “line of inquiry”, but subsequent statements have omitted any mention of terrorism.


An eyewitness said he believed the victims were speaking in Spanish prior to the stabbing.


The witness, called Michael, told MailOnline: “I heard a scream, and then we went to the park and I saw a girl lying on the floor with blood coming from her back. Another girl had blood on her arm.”


He added: “They all spoke Spanish so I guess they were a group. I only saw the victim and the girl with the arm stabbed from that group.


“I just saw blood just next to her. She was lying on the floor with a friend hugging her.”



http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBvgOqi.img?h=768&w=1366&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f


Poor woman what a way to die

[arista]

Evil

[Ammi]

Poor woman what a way to die

...'with a friend hugging her'...just heart wrenching for her friend, Cherie..impossible enough to come to terms with such a death in that way but to be there with her as well...

[bots]

I'm the last person anyone could accuse of paranoia, this is the second knife attack on the public in London in recent months that has been attributed to mental health, I have lived in London for years so I'm entitled to ask questions as to whether we are being told the truth, the streets were flooded with armed police only the day before the attack even though the UK has been in high alert for years and yes TS killings have been going on for years blah blah but random knife attacks on members of the public in crowded areas are not as common as you north of the border might assume. I agree that people should wait for the facts before assuming terror, that said I don't think we need to lap up every thing we are told either.

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

[Ammi]

..I think that we're seeing a rise of 'random attacks' and we've always been led to believe in these type of things not being so 'random' but that there is some kind of connection, so quite rare really ..(although obviously there are random attacks on the general public but really not that many compared to what it feels atm...)...so there is bound to be speculations as well in the current terrorism climate and so many recent events...

[arista]

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.


Bang On Right
b.o.t.s.

He will go to Court soon
and more will come out.
Also I hate BBC saying he is from Norway
(and now not mentioning he is
originally from Somali)


I thank LBC Global Radio
for sticking with the Full story

[user104658]

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

It's pure conjecture; you could just as easily say that this was caused by xenophobia in the wake of Brexit. Maybe this mentally unstable individual who is not a UK native experienced higher levels of hostility / xenophobia in the wake of Brexit and that was enough to push him over the edge and start attacking people.

Is that what happened? I have absolutely no idea, it's a total guess, but it's just as likely a scenario as it being a terrorist copycat attack.

[Cherie]

What we are seeing i think is a form of copy catting. Those not particularly stable see events on the news and think ... hey, i could do that. All it takes is someone a bit mentally vulnerable. I too don't take what I hear as fact, its not like the police are proven to be 100% accurate in their summation of situations in the past. For me, it was still a terrorist attack, albeit not clear if it was related to ISIS or not, it was still a terrorist attack and should be viewed as such.

My thoughts exactly, I understand the need for people to retain perspective but let's not just shrug our shoulders and call mental illness the police won't have had time to make an informed judgement on that. He was 19, what brought him to London from Norway, who did he live with, was he under medical supervision all questions I would like to get an answer to,

[Cherie]

Also, how long was he here, who funded his trip and how was he supporting himself, I have a lot of questions, that's not xenophobia that's common sense

[bots]

It's pure conjecture; you could just as easily say that this was caused by xenophobia in the wake of Brexit. Maybe this mentally unstable individual who is not a UK native experienced higher levels of hostility / xenophobia in the wake of Brexit and that was enough to push him over the edge and start attacking people.

Is that what happened? I have absolutely no idea, it's a total guess, but it's just as likely a scenario as it being a terrorist copycat attack.

Someone that goes wild with a knife attacking members of the public, is terrorising them. Do you think the people being attacked were not frightened?

Therefore, by definition, it is a terrorist attack. No jumping to conclusions necessary, its a fact.

As i said, we don't know if it was directly related to ISIS, but at a minimum, it is a copycat of similar ISIS inspired events. We haven't had brexit random stabbings, so again, with respect, please don't attribute my statements to lacking coherence and clarity.

The details will no doubt come out over time, but I share Cherie's concern that it is being swept under the carpet when it should most certainly not be.

[user104658]

Someone that goes wild with a knife attacking members of the public, is terrorising them. Do you think the people being attacked were not frightened?

Therefore, by definition, it is a terrorist attack. No jumping to conclusions necessary, its a fact.

On a technicality yes, but... That is not what most people mean when they say "terrorist attack", it is not what the media means when it talks of terrorist attacks, and it is not the connotation of the term (which is vital) so for the sake of clarity, in my opinion, it should be avoided in the case of random rage-fuelled attacks that are not politically motivated.

As i said, we don't know if it was directly related to ISIS, but at a minimum, it is a copycat of similar ISIS inspired events.

There is absolutely no evidence at all of this? These sorts of attacks have been going on a Ince long before ISIS / Islamic terrorism and you could just as easily assume that it's a "copycat" of Columbine, or any number of similar mass attacks.

Are mentally disturbed people increasingly lashing out and attacking? Yes, potentially... I don't know the actual stats, it may just be that it sells papers these days do is being reported on a larger scale... But anyway, if it IS true that it's on the rise, what they are being inspired by is an atmosphere of chaos and violence that is being furthered and encouraged by PEOPLE and THE MEDIA.

[Ammi]

On a technicality yes, but... That is not what most people mean when they say "terrorist attack", it is not what the media means when it talks of terrorist attacks, and it is not the connotation of the term (which is vital) so for the sake of clarity, in my opinion, it should be avoided in the case of random rage-fuelled attacks that are not politically motivated.



There is absolutely no evidence at all of this? These sorts of attacks have been going on a Ince long before ISIS / Islamic terrorism and you could just as easily assume that it's a "copycat" of Columbine, or any number of similar mass attacks.

Are mentally disturbed people increasingly lashing out and attacking? Yes, potentially... I don't know the actual stats, it may just be that it sells papers these days do is being reported on a larger scale... But anyway, if it IS true that it's on the rise, what they are being inspired by is an atmosphere of chaos and violence that is being furthered and encouraged by PEOPLE and THE MEDIA.


..there's definitely felt as though there has been a rise in 'random' attacks that have caused deaths/serious injuries etc ..and yes, it could be questioned 'are they terrorist group inspired' ..?...but in thinking about it, I think it's also possible that funding is so dire in mental health care and people with mental health issues/serious ones, not getting the care they should be so a link there as well, maybe..?....

[Ammi]

...we don't give the funding that is needed and is this what we get..?..death of random innocents....

[Cherie]

...we don't give the funding that is needed and is this what we get..?..death of random innocents....

He s a 19 year old Norwegian national, and the UK should be funding his mental health issue? how long was he in the country? We could apply this theory to the Leytonstone slasher, not sure it applies here though

[user104658]

..there's definitely felt as though there has been a rise in 'random' attacks that have caused deaths/serious injuries etc ..and yes, it could be questioned 'are they terrorist group inspired' ..?...but in thinking about it, I think it's also possible that funding is so dire in mental health care and people with mental health issues/serious ones, not getting the care they should be so a link there as well, maybe..?....

The funding is dire for mental health and has been for years, my dad is/was very actively involved in campaigning around it, he was a mental health professional for 25 years and then worked for the RCN council for another 10 (retired now). Essentially, it's under-funded and just generally not taken as seriously as "real" (physical) elements of healthcare. The thinking is totally backwards, though... if they doubled mental health funding, they would save twice as much again (or probably FAR more) in other areas, as properly funded mental health service would dramatically reduce drug / especially alcohol related illness, which costs untold billions. The UK has a massive alcohol dependency problem and it's firmly rooted in depression/anxiety and self-medication.

Apparently Scotland has recently renewed focus on mental health and there's a drive to have it at the core of services (rather than handing out prescription pills like they're tictacs), but frankly I can't see that extending to the rest of the UK, with the way things are going south of the border.

[Cherie]

Some huge leaps being made here by the same person saying we shouldn't leap to conclusions, we know nada about the guy apart from his nationality, let's see how long he was in the country before we start blaming UK mental health services which is underfunded but may be of no consequence in this case

[user104658]

Some huge leaps being made here by the same person saying we shouldn't leap to conclusions, we know nada about the guy apart from his nationality, let's see how long he was in the country before we start blaming UK mental health services which is underfunded but may be of no consequence in this case

Are there? Where? I went a bit off topic, which I'll apologise for, I was really just responding to the part about mental health services being under-funded which is true. You're correct that - just as with terrorism - we have no idea whether or not it's relevant to this specific case at this point.

Apparently assuming that it's terrorism related is OK, though. We shouldn't make any assumptions, unless that assumption is ":omgno: ISIS!", because Terrorists.

[Cherie]

Are there? Where? I went a bit off topic, which I'll apologise for, I was really just responding to the part about mental health services being under-funded which is true. You're correct that - just as with terrorism - we have no idea whether or not it's relevant to this specific case at this point.

Apparently assuming that it's terrorism related is OK, though. We shouldn't make any assumptions, unless that assumption is ":omgno: ISIS!", because Terrorists.

As I've said previously I'm not assuming anything, after the Leytonstone incident the guys family came out quickly in his defence and could prove they were trying to get him help with his mental health, nevertheless less his actions were inspired by ISIS, the seems a bit different and until I hear more I am not discounting anything, I don't think the police do anyone any favours by immediately jumping on mental health as a motive.

[user104658]

As I've said previously I'm not assuming anything, after the Leytonstone incident the guys family came out quickly in his defence and could prove they were trying to get him help with his mental health, nevertheless less his actions were inspired by ISIS, the seems a bit different and until I hear more I am not discounting anything, I don't think the police do anyone any favours by immediately jumping on mental health as a motive.

No they don't but the police (or others - usually it *is* others - the public and the media) not only "do no favours" but actively cause harm by jumping on terrorism as a motivation.

[Kizzy]

The mental health issue could just as well be due to substance abuse? It seems the increased armed presence has had the opposite effect, far from making those in the capital feel safer it has ramped up the pressure to feel vulnerable to immediate attack.

[Cherie]

The mental health issue could just as well be due to substance abuse? It seems the increased armed presence has had the opposite effect, far from making those in the capital feel safer it has ramped up the pressure to feel vulnerable to immediate attack.

I don't know anyone that feels like that Kizzy, police presence on the streets is reassuring as it would be in any City

[Kizzy]

I don't know anyone that feels like that Kizzy, police presence on the streets is reassuring as it would be in any City

A police presence yes...an armed presence no.

I felt like that, I was in London recently and the armed presence was unnerving.
Of course I'm just another northern monkey.

[Cherie]

A police presence yes...an armed presence no.

I felt like that, I was in London recently and the armed presence was unnerving.
Of course I'm just another northern monkey.

Soft Northerners, you need to toughen up :laugh:

[Liberty4eva]

Brexit was really only half the battle. The other half is to hold the UK politician's feet to the fire and stop this scum from going to your country.

[Kizzy]

Soft Northerners, you need to toughen up :laugh:

Toughen up for what... walk around like a coiled spring? no thanks :laugh:

[Cherie]

Toughen up for what... walk around like a coiled spring? no thanks :laugh:

It really doesn't bother me at all :shrug:

[bots]

armed police are necessary in order to be able to react effectively to the threats the UK currently faces, or are people actually saying the UK isn't vulnerable at the moment? Cause that seems to be the notion in this thread.

When we had the 7/7 attacks, I was very happy to see an increased armed police presence, and everyone working and living in London echoed that sentiment.

Perhaps the Jeremy Corbyn pacifist approach of ... don't do that again is seen as the better option?

[Kizzy]

I'm the last person anyone could accuse of paranoia, this is the second knife attack on the public in London in recent months that has been attributed to mental health, I have lived in London for years so I'm entitled to ask questions as to whether we are being told the truth, the streets were flooded with armed police only the day before the attack even though the UK has been in high alert for years and yes TS killings have been going on for years blah blah but random knife attacks on members of the public in crowded areas are not as common as you north of the border might assume. I agree that people should wait for the facts before assuming terror, that said I don't think we need to lap up every thing we are told either.

"At 8.20am we were called to the first stabbing and that man went to hospital where he is in a serious but stable condition.
"Forty-five minutes later other calls came in to other stabbings in the area. One of those people stabbed has died.
"The stabbings were random and there appears to be no link between the victims. They were also a cross-section in terms of ethnicity.

Us north of the border get the same news as the south... There have always been random attacks, I do feel that with the recent attacks in Europe, our armed response and the media there is a slight urge to presume a link whilst maintaining the perspective that there is still going to be unrelated violent crime as there was before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-331834/Man-dies-crazed-random-knife-attacks.html

[Cherie]

"At 8.20am we were called to the first stabbing and that man went to hospital where he is in a serious but stable condition.
"Forty-five minutes later other calls came in to other stabbings in the area. One of those people stabbed has died.
"The stabbings were random and there appears to be no link between the victims. They were also a cross-section in terms of ethnicity.

Us north of the border get the same news as the south... There have always been random attacks, I do feel that with the recent attacks in Europe, our armed response and the media there is a slight urge to presume a link whilst maintaining the perspective that there is still going to be unrelated violent crime as there was before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-331834/Man-dies-crazed-random-knife-attacks.html


Most people killed in terrorist attacks are random, and aren't linked so I'm not sure what that comment is meant to prove

[Livia]

armed police are necessary in order to be able to react effectively to the threats the UK currently faces, or are people actually saying the UK isn't vulnerable at the moment? Cause that seems to be the notion in this thread.

When we had the 7/7 attacks, I was very happy to see an increased armed police presence, and everyone working and living in London echoed that sentiment.

Perhaps the Jeremy Corbyn pacifist approach of ... don't do that again is seen as the better option?

And we're back to the "we don't live in dangerous times" comment. There was a whole swathe of people who agreed with that... and apparently that still do. It's like, if they ignore it, it'll go away. I suppose it's not close enough to home for some people.

Like I said in another thread armed police are everywhere on the continent, Paris was littered with them well before the terrorist incidents but the Parisians managed to carry on without buckling. The USA the same... I spend a bit of time in Israel every year and everyone's armed there, including primary school teachers... and people still live a normal life.

Something about this incident that's annoyed me from the start... they keep saying he's Norwegian of Somalian descent. He is not. He is Somalian with Norwegian citizenship.

[user104658]

We DON'T live in "dangerous times". That doesn't mean that we live in "safe times" or that the world isn't dangerous. That's where people seem to be getting confused. Saying that we live in dangerous "times" suggests that there is something abnormal or different about the "times" compared to the entirity of history. We arguably live in a more dangerous world than the world of the latter half of the 20th century (IF you ignore cold war rumblings, as nothing actually kicked off). Before that? The world has ALWAYS been a vaguely dangerous place for the average person... and if you bother to look at the actual stats for even 5 seconds it becomes VERY obvious that, if you are a healthy adult, your risk of dropping dead tomorrow (by any means) is far less (FAR far less) than at any other point in history. If you take road traffic deaths out of the equation that difference is even more staggering.

Does that mean there aren't dangers in the world? No, of course there are dangers. It's a dangerous world, but these are not especially dangerous times. If anyone has ANY facts or figures to dispute that - I will happily alter my stance.

[Livia]

We live in dangerous times. I'm not failing to understand anything. On the contrary.

[user104658]

We live in dangerous times. I'm not failing to understand anything. On the contrary.

Compared to when?

[Livia]

Compared to when?

Compared to before the rise of IS, and them appealing to every skewed Muslim in the world to kill the infidel; compared to a time before we let in hundreds of thousands...millions... of unchecked people into Europe and have no idea at all how many are followers of IS. One in a million? One in a thousand? One in ten? Maybe it's different in the little village where you live... I expect the people who live in the little village where the priest was murdered thought they were far enough from the fray, but there's no such thing any more. Maybe because of the nature and area of my work I'm a little more aware? Maybe I've heard and seen things that make it more clear to me? It doesn't govern my life, but I have to acknowledge that the times are more dangerous now and to deny that... well... where's that picture? You know? the head in the sand one...

[user104658]

Compared to before the rise of IS, and them appealing to every skewed Muslim in the world to kill the infidel; compared to a time before we let in hundreds of thousands...millions... of unchecked people into Europe and have no idea at all how many are followers of IS. One in a million? One in a thousand? One in ten? Maybe it's different in the little village where you live... I expect the people who live in the little village where the priest was murdered thought they were far enough from the fray, but there's no such thing any more. Maybe because of the nature and area of my work I'm a little more aware? Maybe I've heard and seen things that make it more clear to me? It doesn't govern my life, but I have to acknowledge that the times are more dangerous now and to deny that... well... where's that picture? You know? the head in the sand one...

So you're at more risk now than you would have been in the 1940's? You're more at risk walking down the street in London today than you would have been in the Victorian era or earlier?

Like I said; I'm not saying we don't live in a dangerous world but the phrase "these are dangerous times" is comparative; it's stating that an individual is more at risk TODAY than they were in the past... which is simply false. The statistical likelihood of you, me, or any other healthy adult going out and dying today is FAR lower than it has been throughout the vast majority of history - and as I said, that's even WITH automotive accidents (the number one killer of healthy people, by a country mile). This can actually be verified by actual numbers and stats. You are safer today than you would have been in any other era, bar perhaps a few parts of the latter 20th century when things were pretty "quiet" in western Europe... but I would call that an uncommon period of calm, rather than the world now "uncommonly dangerous".

So... like I said; I've nt been claiming that the world is not a dangerous place. It obviously can be. And all you've done is explain why you think the world is dangerous, and that's fine. But it doesn't answer my question, other than in pointing out that we had a very briefly calm period before the rise of ISIS.

More dangerous, compared to WHEN? In terms of broader history.

[bots]

So you're at more risk now than you would have been in the 1940's? You're more at risk walking down the street in London today than you would have been in the Victorian era or earlier?

Like I said; I'm not saying we don't live in a dangerous world but the phrase "these are dangerous times" is comparative; it's stating that an individual is more at risk TODAY than they were in the past... which is simply false. The statistical likelihood of you, me, or any other healthy adult going out and dying today is FAR lower than it has been throughout the vast majority of history - and as I said, that's even WITH automotive accidents (the number one killer of healthy people, by a country mile). This can actually be verified by actual numbers and stats. You are safer today than you would have been in any other era, bar perhaps a few parts of the latter 20th century when things were pretty "quiet" in western Europe... but I would call that an uncommon period of calm, rather than the world now "uncommonly dangerous".

So... like I said; I've nt been claiming that the world is not a dangerous place. It obviously can be. And all you've done is explain why you think the world is dangerous, and that's fine. But it doesn't answer my question, other than in pointing out that we had a very briefly calm period before the rise of ISIS.

More dangerous, compared to WHEN? In terms of broader history.

We are more at risk of ISIS terrorist attacks now than we were 10 years ago. Ask those Brits attacked in Tunisia, ask the family of the beheaded soldier.

These are more dangerous times than most peoples living memory. To deny that, is sticking your head in the sand.

[user104658]

We are more at risk of ISIS terrorist attacks now than we were 10 years ago. Ask those Brits attacked in Tunisia, ask the family of the beheaded soldier.

These are more dangerous times than most peoples living memory. To deny that, is sticking your head in the sand.

Statistically, they are not. There is a higher level of perceived risk but more danger of being killed or seriously injured, on any day, when you step out of your door? There simply isn't one. You might be at (marginally) more risk from ISIS... ok... but you're tens of thousands of times more likely to be killed crossing the street, or by a random illness, than being beheaded by a terrorist.

I get that the stories are scary and that there are people who tragically have been killed and maimed and that's awful, too, but "dangerous times" is a sweeping statement that suggests an individual in the UK is at statistically significantly more risk of being killed today than previously. It's simply not the case.

[billy123]

We are more at risk of ISIS terrorist attacks now than we were 10 years ago. Ask those Brits attacked in Tunisia, ask the family of the beheaded soldier.

These are more dangerous times than most peoples living memory. To deny that, is sticking your head in the sand.I would think that goes without saying as ISIS hadnt been created by the west 10 years ago.
Has anyone been killed by ISIS in the UK? I seriously doubt it. Sure 3-4 people might have been murdered by extremist nutters but do you really think they have any link to the rebels that were funded by the west to overturn the Syrian leaders before predictably turning against the west at the first sniff of power?
No i dont think so.
Terrorism isnt a new thing although you wouldnt believe it judging by the media. The IRA murdered around 1800 people alone.

[Kizzy]

Most people killed in terrorist attacks are random, and aren't linked so I'm not sure what that comment is meant to prove

It was just a news article to show there have always been random stabbings, but there's no point really,

[Braden]

More sad news. I hope those who are injured pull through and are not to effected by the trauma of this incident.

Poor woman :(