Transphobia and 'cisbians'

[Vicky.]

I am unsure if this discussion will be able to be had tbh, as I can see it being deleted as transphobic. But I have been discussing this on another and it has really ****ing annoyed me

http://thetab.com/uk/edinburgh/2016/08/18/edinburghs-lgbt-convenor-said-i-sure-hope-police-die-today-24996

This Ada Wells guy. I refuse to call him 'her', sorry. Reckons he is a lesbian and says lesbians who refuse to have sex with transgender 'women' (who still have penises) are transphobes and pushing for them to be expelled from the University he represents. Calls women with natural vaginas 'cuntscum' (apologies for avoiding the filter but this specific insult is a major part of this...) along with various other very insulting viewpoints, including that our police should die. Oddly enough this person was elected to be 'EUSA’s LGBT+ Liberation Group Convenor'.

Now to me this very much comes across as a guy who wants to shag lesbians and thinks by saying he is a woman and bullying them into it by threatening expulsion and labelling them transphobic for not wanting to shag a penis, will get his sick twisted way with them.

Is there not a stage where this 'identifying' nonsense becomes bloody dangerous? Honestly, this whole thing is inexcusable and this guy has much support from others..when it appears all he wishes to do is surpress the rights of women, and more specifically lesbians, who are under the umbrella of people he claims to represent?!

Now, to me, I have no problem with calling someone who has fully transitioned a woman, or is at least in the final stages. What I refuse to do is pander to the nonsense that if someone thinks they are a female/male thats what they are and that they should be treat in everyway as a genuine woman. A bloke in a frock does not make a woman, regardless of whats going on inside his head. But apparently, this viewpoint is wrong. More wrong than bullying lesbians into shagging men...what a mess.


(for the record, this person has now resigned from their post due to public pressure about their sick views)

[letmein]

There's next to nothing about this person online. Stop giving them attention. Sounds like a wacko.

[Vicky.]

There's next to nothing about this person online. Stop giving them attention. Sounds like a wacko.

This is more than just that one person though. I genuinely think it is dangerous the way this 'identifying' thing is going. Added the person onto the post mainly as its nearly always said 'but do these people really exist' when people point out concerns about allowing people to 'be' whatever they 'think' they are. Well yes, they do exist, and in actual positions that hold power it seems.

[Toy Soldier]

This has very little to do with gender identity or anything like that though... It straight up doesn't make sense. People have sex with who they are attracted to (presumably)... There aren't any rules? Like what if the women said "Actually the penis doesn't bother me, it's your arse-ugly face that's a turn off, sorry."

I'm totally open to the idea of sexual fluidity. I'm a straight male but I'd probably suck off a good looking guy out of pure curiosity... I don't find the idea "horrific" or anything but I just happen to be someone who (so far, I guess?? :joker: ) is only sexually attracted to females.

Err...

I guess my point is, the idea that they are doing something "wrong" by not wanting to have sex with any individual for ANY reason, is just bizarre. As I said I'm straight... Does that mean my 62-year-old female colleague could get me fired for ageism for refusing to bang her? :umm2:

So yeah. This is more about a nasty individual looking for attention than anything to do with gender identity.

I can't agree that transsexuals aren't "real" transsexuals unless they have or plan to have reassignment surgery. It's not as simple as snippety snip, it's a major medical procedure so - even for people who would "want a vagina" if it was as simple as that - there are other health implications and considerations. Structurally female brains in male bodies (and vice versa) is a real thing. Verifiable. People should have the right to live as they choose and in the way that makes them comfortable without being "forced" into a medical procedure.

However, along the same lines, they certainly don't have the authority or the right to tell other people that they're "not lesbianing properly", or anything else.

[Vicky.]

This has very little to do with gender identity or anything like that though... It straight up doesn't make sense. People have sex with who they are attracted to (presumably)... There aren't any rules? Like what if the women said "Actually the penis doesn't bother me, it's your arse-ugly face that's a turn off, sorry."

I'm totally open to the idea of sexual fluidity. I'm a straight male but I'd probably suck off a good looking guy out of pure curiosity... I don't find the idea "horrific" or anything but I just happen to be someone who (so far, I guess?? :joker: ) is only sexually attracted to females.

Err...

I guess my point is, the idea that they are doing something "wrong" by not wanting to have sex with any individual for ANY reason, is just bizarre. As I said I'm straight... Does that mean my 62-year-old female colleague could get me fired for ageism for refusing to bang her? :umm2:

So yeah. This is more about a nasty individual looking for attention than anything to do with gender identity.

I can't agree that transsexuals aren't "real" transsexuals unless they have or plan to have reassignment surgery. It's not as simple as snippety snip, it's a major medical procedure so - even for people who would "want a vagina" if it was as simple as that - there are other health implications and considerations. Structurally female brains in male bodies (and vice versa) is a real thing. Verifiable. People should have the right to live as they choose and in the way that makes them comfortable without being "forced" into a medical procedure.

However, along the same lines, they certainly don't have the authority or the right to tell other people that they're "not lesbianing properly", or anything else.
I am not advocating forcing anyone into a medical procedure. However I do think that unless you have taken genuine steps towards 'becoming' (for want of a better word) the gender you are..you should not be classed as said gender. Out of respect I would use the correct pronouns and such when talking/to about transpeople (except this scumbag)..but the likes of using female changing rooms and such..I disagree with if you simply 'identify' as that gender. There was a case not long ago where a MTF trans took some womens refuge type place to court for refusing her a position based on her not having grown up as a woman and therfor not knowing about the experiences and such that they spoke about at said group, along with said group being vulnerable people who had been abused by men. I guess what I don't understand is why there isn't a bit more..consideration in many case rather than instant cries of 'transphobia' and such

[Toy Soldier]

I am not advocating forcing anyone into a medical procedure. However I do think that unless you have taken genuine steps towards 'becoming' (for want of a better word) the gender you are..you should not be classed as said gender. Out of respect I would use the correct pronouns and such when talking/to about transpeople (except this scumbag)..but the likes of using female changing rooms and such..I disagree with if you simply 'identify' as that gender. There was a case not long ago where a MTF trans took some womens refuge type place to court for refusing her a position based on her not having grown up as a woman and therfor not knowing about the experiences and such that they spoke about at said group, along with said group being vulnerable people who had been abused by men. I guess what I don't understand is why there isn't a bit more..consideration in many case rather than instant cries of 'transphobia' and such
My point I guess is that people shouldnt be considered a "bloke in a dress" if they identify as female, just because they won't get surgery. I get what you're saying about living as that gender, but then surely genitals are the least of that? I mean that's entirely private - no one should be looking close enough to know either way what's been "done".

And then it does start to get complicated when you factor in the drive for gender equality... What does "living as a man" vs "living as a woman" look like in the 21st century?

[Vicky.]

Well living as a man tends to involve higher pay than women and more respect at work. Rather tempted to start identifying as male given how easy it is for that to be accepted these days. :hehe:

I don't really give a stuff what people identify as, but I see a dangerous precedent being set recently. Thetruth will hate me for this but women have fought for equal rights for a long time and now we are getting there and suddenly the rights of women seem to be trumped by the rights of men who say they are women :S I would not be comfortable being in a changing room with an obvious guy. But changing rooms/toilets and such seem to be the main issues being fought for, which to me is just bizarre. Kinda comes across sometimes as if a fair few are just using it to exert some kind of power over women. The psycho in the OP being a prime example of this too.

[Liam-]

Disgusting, this is where labels and pc nonsense do my head in, a lesbian shouldn't be pressured into having sex with a penis, just because the owner of the penis says 'oh it's alright, I'm a woman really, just touch it' and then when they don't want to touch the penis - because they're lesbians - they get shamed and called names like that? nah, sorry, that's not right, get yourself a vagina and then a lesbian will sleep with you.

[Vicky.]

Disgusting, this is where labels and pc nonsense do my head in, a lesbian shouldn't be pressured into having sex with a penis, just because the owner of the penis says 'oh it's alright, I'm a woman really, just touch it' and then when they don't want to touch the penis - because they're lesbians - they get shamed and called names like that? nah, sorry, that's not right, get yourself a vagina and then a lesbian will sleep with you.

Through looking at the subject in a bit more detail, I have been informed that a penis on a 'woman' is not called a penis, it is a ladystick?

I have no words tbh

[Jamie89]

Obviously a disgusting person :mad: and I completely disagree with everything she's saying. But speaking generally on the issue of how someone identifies, whether to refer to them as 'she' or 'he'... for me personally I'd go off how they identify themself moreso than anything physical. I can see the argument for basing it on the physical stage they're at with transitioning, but from personal experience (one of my close friends is female to male trans) there can be a lot more involved than just deciding to transition, and then going through with the process. In my friends case, he began transitioning and was given hormone treatment etc, and was given surgery to have his breasts removed, but before his last operation, he was refused treatment for psychological reasons (I won't go fully into the details coz even though noone knows him I feel a bit weird giving really personal information about him lol), but it had nothing to do with him not being a man/living as a man etc, and this then had consequences for how he's identified legally etc. However in every aspect of how he lives, considers himself, looks, is treated by others, he's a man... except he has a vagina instead of a penis. And it's unlikely that he'll be allowed to have that changed so he's going to have to accept it. So i kind of think that if someone was to refer to him as 'she' because of it, it would be really unfair, and unnecessarily upsetting for him, because after all it's just a label (so I don't see any danger in it tbh) but for someone like him it has a much greater meaning, and why should someone else's view of who he is supersede his own.
I think this Ada person seems like a very extreme example though and definitely not representative of most people who go through (but don't complete) their transition. Like most groups there'll be people who draw negative attention to themselves and tar everyone else in that group with the same brush.

[Vicky.]

Obviously a disgusting person :mad: and I completely disagree with everything she's saying. But speaking generally on the issue of how someone identifies, whether to refer to them as 'she' or 'he'... for me personally I'd go off how they identify themself moreso than anything physical. I can see the argument for basing it on the physical stage they're at with transitioning, but from personal experience (one of my close friends is female to male trans) there can be a lot more involved than just deciding to transition, and then going through with the process. In my friends case, he began transitioning and was given hormone treatment etc, and was given surgery to have his breasts removed, but before his last operation, he was refused treatment for psychological reasons (I won't go fully into the details coz even though noone knows him I feel a bit weird giving really personal information about him lol), but it had nothing to do with him not being a man/living as a man etc, and this then had consequences for how he's identified legally etc. However in every aspect of how he lives, considers himself, looks, is treated by others, he's a man... except he has a vagina instead of a penis. And it's unlikely that he'll be allowed to have that changed so he's going to have to accept it. So i kind of think that if someone was to refer to him as 'she' because of it, it would be really unfair, and unnecessarily upsetting for him, because after all it's just a label (so I don't see any danger in it tbh) but for someone like him it has a much greater meaning, and why should someone else's view of who he is supersede his own.
I think this Ada person seems like a very extreme example though and definitely not representative of most people who go through (but don't complete) their transition. Like most groups there'll be people who draw negative attention to themselves and tar everyone else in that group with the same brush.
So had began transitioning, rather than just deciding they are the opposite gender and dressing that way..yeah I should maybe have been more clear that I would class this person as a man as it is not just a case of 'I think therefor I am'. Not that anyone would care what I personally think mind :laugh:

[Liam-]

Through looking at the subject in a bit more detail, I have been informed that a penis on a 'woman' is not called a penis, it is a ladystick?

I have no words tbh

A ladystick?.. a lady stick.

:joker:

Sounds like something you wave to magically make someone a lady.

[Jamie89]

So had began transitioning, rather than just deciding they are the opposite gender and dressing that way..yeah I should maybe have been more clear that I would class this person as a woman as it is not just a case of 'I think therefor I am'. Not that anyone would care what I personally think mind :laugh:

A man :fist: lol

[Toy Soldier]

There are complicated considerations but I'm not convinced that trying to "strip it back to basics" in order to simplify it is necessarily the way to go, either.

[Vicky.]

A man :fist: lol

That was a genuine mistake :laugh:

[Niamh.]

He wants people who won't have sex with him to be expelled? ummm

[Toy Soldier]

So had began transitioning, rather than just deciding they are the opposite gender and dressing that way..yeah I should maybe have been more clear that I would class this person as a man as it is not just a case of 'I think therefor I am'. Not that anyone would care what I personally think mind [emoji23]
Again though it's not entirely that simple, it's a big step, it's not that you take pills and get sliced and that's that.

A bad or even just mediocre surgeon can make a complete mess. There's a risk of post-surgical infection. There are risks associated with anaesthesia. There are cancer risks and other health risks associated with hormone replacement.

Drugs and surgeries should never be taken lightly. Many will eventually choose to go down that route but in my opinion, it's not right to tell people what they MUST do in order to be taken seriously.

[Vicky.]

Again though it's not entirely that simple, it's a big step, it's not that you take pills and get sliced and that's that.

A bad or even just mediocre surgeon can make a complete mess. There's a risk of post-surgical infection. There are risks associated with anaesthesia. There are cancer risks and other health risks associated with hormone replacement.

Drugs and surgeries should never be taken lightly. Many will eventually choose to go down that route but in my opinion, it's not right to tell people what they MUST do in order to be taken seriously.

On the same note though, its not right to tell people what they must accept when it comes to their own rights :shrug: Whose rights trump who's in this case..unless you draw some lines somewhere, its all a bit iffy.

[Tom4784]

A mess of a human being. How they got elected I'll never know.

[Vicky.]

OK this has made me delve rather deeply into a subject I have never really given that much thought to before.

What exactly is living as a woman? And what is living as a man?

If anyone can tell me the answer to these without resorting to sterotypes I would be grateful as I genuinely cannot think of any besides appearance based? Ie. Having breasts and a vagina or a penis.

I have long hair, but to many I would be classed as living as a guy I guess, going on stereotypes? I often lounge about in tracksuit bottoms, HATE wearing dresses, am about as little 'girly' as you can be, am not really soft natured, prefer going to the pub to getting a manicure, don't bother with makeup in general, will never chose salad over a big juicy steak, preferred 'boys toys' to dollies and such as a child, and so on.

[Niamh.]

OK this has made me delve rather deeply into a subject I have never really given that much thought to before.

What exactly is living as a woman? And what is living as a man?

If anyone can tell me the answer to these without resorting to sterotypes I would be grateful as I genuinely cannot think of any besides appearance based? Ie. Having breasts and a vagina or a penis.

I have long hair, but to many I would be classed as living as a guy I guess, going on stereotypes? I often lounge about in tracksuit bottoms, HATE wearing dresses, am about as little 'girly' as you can be, am not really soft natured, prefer going to the pub to getting a manicure, don't bother with makeup in general, will never chose salad over a big juicy steak, preferred 'boys toys' to dollies and such as a child, and so on.

That's an interesting question Vicky, I would be similar to you as well, that I'm pretty "un" girly

[Amy Jade]

You know when you read something and it's so ridiculous you are lost for words...me now.

This person is honestly shocling, expell lesbians who don't want to have sex with him? :laugh:

[Vicky.]

And now I have discovered a whole other world I didn't even know existed :umm2:

https://terfisaslur.com/cotton-ceiling/

cisbians using 'I'm just not attracted to penises'

Except noone is attracted to penises. Noone is attracted to vaginas. Noone is attracted to genitals. You're attracted to the person.

When you first see someone you're attracted to them as a person. You don't know what genitals they have, implying you can tell a trans person from a cis person is cissexist and would force you to admit you are attracted to trans people before you fvine out they're trans.

So ask yourself why you'd be attracted to a transperson until you find out they're trans or what genitals they have?

Hint. Its because you're a sad little transmisogynist and you deserve to have your teeth beaten in.

The slurs are almost exclusively towards lesbians who will not shag blokes who are 'in their head' women but have male parts.

Jesus christ. Kinda wish I hadn't came across the story in the OP now as the further I delve the more disgusting it gets. Doesn't seem as uncommon as I assumed it was either :S

[Jamie89]

OK this has made me delve rather deeply into a subject I have never really given that much thought to before.

What exactly is living as a woman? And what is living as a man?

If anyone can tell me the answer to these without resorting to sterotypes I would be grateful as I genuinely cannot think of any besides appearance based? Ie. Having breasts and a vagina or a penis.

I have long hair, but to many I would be classed as living as a guy I guess, going on stereotypes? I often lounge about in tracksuit bottoms, HATE wearing dresses, am about as little 'girly' as you can be, am not really soft natured, prefer going to the pub to getting a manicure, don't bother with makeup in general, will never chose salad over a big juicy steak, preferred 'boys toys' to dollies and such as a child, and so on.

It's a good question. I'm not really sure, thinking about my friend, he walks, talks, looks like a man, in terms of stereotypes. And when I first met him it didn't cross my mind he used to be a woman. So I'm not really sure what 'living as a man' means for him because he doesn't really 'try' to do anything. I wonder if it is just stereotypes/physical things though. I think if I had breasts and wore a dress I'd probably feel less masculine :laugh: Our minds are conditioned to think of certain attributes as feminine/masculine, and for someone like you who is physically female, it wouldn't really matter so much if you do things that are stereotypically male, because you know in your mind you're still a woman and people will still consider you to be a woman. Whereas for someone who's trans they don't have that, so maybe it's about actively trying to appear as a certain gender in other peoples eyes, and be treated as that gender.

[Crimson Dynamo]

his comment on the police..


an immature silly boy desperate for attention and full of self loathing

best to ignore him

[Cal.]

Why does he wanna fuque lesbians so much? Is there not enough straight gals out there?

[Vicky.]

Why does he wanna fuque lesbians so much? Is there not enough straight gals out there?

Indeed. There seems to be a dark underbelly to the trans-movement which I have only discovered literally today. Not a one off view held by a psycho, but a fair few who think their 'right' to be seen as a woman trumps the rights of women to refuse to submit to their very male dicks. Women must be transphobic if they refuse to believe that someone with a penis is female.

Oddly I have found no comments calling straight men transphobic for not wanting to shag pre-op MTF trans people. Seems to be directed at women. And more specifically lesbians. Which has scared me a bit now tbh as its quite coming across as some are...saying they are trans to have some weird kind of power over womens bodies/choices. Very power kick-y some of this is.

Honestly wish I had never started this, nor looked into stuff as much as I have :bored: