BBC1HD Live :Jeremy Corbyn & Owen Smith (special) Question Time 9PM Thurs. 8/9/16

[arista]

From Oldham

I hope its Live

[arista]

Good 9PM tonight
it is LIVE

[joeysteele]

Oh gosh, here we go again,never mind let's see what happens.
If Dimbleby can keep it on topic and moving of course.

[Kizzy]

Will be watching, glad the media bias is well and truly exposed, let's hope dimblebore can remain impartial...lol

[arista]

Live on Now

[MTVN]

Corbyn is so pie in the sky is hilarious

[Kizzy]

Smith is chatting so much rubbish...it's clear he doesn't believe half of what is coming out of his mouth!

[MTVN]

I don't know how anyone can deny that there are hard-left groups doing all they can to support Corbyn. Every Saturday I see the Socialist Workers Party have their little stand in my town and they are always bleating about defending Corbyn and doing all they can to protect his position.

[Kizzy]

Why is socialist a dirty word?..... :/


Anyone notice that 3 times dimbleby has only taken smiths answer and then asked to move on and Jeremy has had to ask to have his say?.... :idc:

[jaxie]

Corbyn is so pie in the sky is hilarious

They both are, one wants to daydream about talking Is down and getting North Korea not to get a bomb. The other one thinks he can just ignore the Brexit referendum because he doesn't agree with it. What a pair of tossers. And this is why Labour haven't a hope in hell of getting into government anytime soon.

[joeysteele]

Well for me Corbyn walked this one.
Owen Smith came across to me, really poor.

Having said that, the problem with Corbyn is, he has passion but fails to project that at PMQs particularly and when debating ,such as on the EU referendum.
If he could address that, he could be more effective.

Owen Smith has a good delivery but is off putting in how he conducts himself generally.

Neither in my view, will lead Labour to an election victory but I do think now possibly Corbyn is the one who could do enough to remove the Conservatives overall majority status in said election, not one held in the next year or so.
Why, in the main because he does offer at least a totally alternative message.

Labour is now backing the election of MPs to the shadow cabinet how it used to be,rather than the Leader choosing them.
If that comes into play and he was elected by MPs and Conference, is Owen smith going to throw that back at those voting for him.

However, definitely tonight, this was a substantial win for Corbyn in my view.

[jaxie]

Well for me Corbyn walked this one.
Owen Smith came across to me, really poor.

Having said that, the problem with Corbyn is, he has passion but fails to project that a PMQs particularly and when debating ,such as on the EU referendum.
If he could address that, he could be more effective.

Owen Smith has a good delivery but is off putting in how he conducts himself generally.

Neither in my view, will lead Labour to an election victory but I do think now possibly Corbyn is the one who could do enough to remove the Conservatives overall majority status in said election, not one held in the next year or so.
Why, in the main because he does offer at least a totally alternative message.

Labour is now backing the election of MPs to the shadow cabinet how it used to be,rather than the Leader choosing them.
If that comes into play and he was elected by MPs and Conference, is Owen smith going to throw that back at those voting for him.

However, definitely tonight, this was a substantial win for Corbyn in my view.

Neither of them came across well. Corbin's ideas about defence are frightening and naive. The main point is that it isn't about Labour supporters it's about winning over other votes to get into power. There is no way either of these men can do that.

[joeysteele]

Neither of them came across well. Corbin's ideas about defence are frightening and naive. The main point is that it isn't about Labour supporters it's about winning over other votes to get into power. There is no way either of these men can do that.

We have no idea at all as to what the voters may be looking for in 2020 nor as to what state the UK will be in, if we still have a UK that is.

I am only 24 and seen some of the oddest things happen in politics already.

I could,never have predicted that the Lib Dems would get 5 years in power alongside the Conservatives,I could never have believed a few years ago that the UK would vote to leave the EU.

I would have never believed Corbyn would have gone for leader,let alone win it.
Also never would I have believed the Conservative party would elect the worst Home Secretary ever to be its leader.
Also never would I have believed Tony Blair and Labour would win a landslide victory and then hold onto that with almost the exact same result in his 2nd election.

Predicting what will or will not happen in politics is a fools game,I gave up on predicting after the last election, when then again, I could never have believed the Conservatives would have got an overall majority.

I will do my utmost to help get Labour elected in 2020,whoever is leader and no one has any idea how voters will be feeling with leaving the EU, the Scottish issue and after 10 years of Conservative govt.

A lot can change in a week, never mind in over 3 years.

[jaxie]

We have no idea at all as to what the voters may be looking for in 2020 nor as to what state the UK will be in, if we still have a UK that is.

I am only 24 and seen some of the oddest things happen in politics already.

I could,never have predicted that the Lib Dems would get 5 years in power alongside the Conservatives,I could never have believed a few years ago that the UK would vote to leave the EU.

I would have never believed Corbyn would have gone for leader,let alone win it.
Also never would I have believed the Conservative party would elect the worst Home Secretary ever to be its leader.
Also never would I have believed Tony Blair and Labour would win a landslide victory and then hold onto that with almost the exact same result in his 2nd election.

Predicting what will or will not happen in politics is a fools game,I gave up on predicting after the last election, when then again, I could never have believed the Conservatives would have got an overall majority.

I will do my utmost to help get Labour elected in 2020,whoever is leader and no one has any idea how voters will be feeling with leaving the EU, the Scottish issue and after 10 years of Conservative govt.

A lot can change in a week, never mind in over 3 years.

A lot can change but as my granny used to say you can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear. Corbyn is a sow's ear.

It was fairly obvious conservatives would win the last election because of three things. The most important (this will be familiar) no one liked the labour leader and the man at the top is important. The SNP has slaughtered the labour vote in Scotland. The other reason they were likely to win was the promise of a referendum on the EU. Many people have wanted this for years but they wouldn't give it to us because they were scared we'd vote leave. Hence the leave vote not being a total shock.

Politics can be predictable. The GBP will not vote labour if they don't like the leader. Not supporters but all those other folks you need to win a general election. No one liked Gordon and his back door leadership deal. No one liked Ed, should have picked the other brother. No one likes Jeremy, no one will like Owen. Labour need to get one thing right and choose a leader people can get behind or they simply will not win.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well if we're a lefty I would not vote for the dyed hair goon. Corbyn for me

[the truth]

poor show, neither will push teresa may.... corbyn ducked the bma question, smith at least addressed the fact he wants the doctors not to strike 5 days as it will prove dangerous
corbyn is surpisingly unconvincing even on issues hes fought on for 40 years

[joeysteele]

A lot can change but as my granny used to say you can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear. Corbyn is a sow's ear.

It was fairly obvious conservatives would win the last election because of three things. The most important (this will be familiar) no one liked the labour leader and the man at the top is important. The SNP has slaughtered the labour vote in Scotland. The other reason they were likely to win was the promise of a referendum on the EU. Many people have wanted this for years but they wouldn't give it to us because they were scared we'd vote leave. Hence the leave vote not being a total shock.

Politics can be predictable. The GBP will not vote labour if they don't like the leader. Not supporters but all those other folks you need to win a general election. No one liked Gordon and his back door leadership deal. No one liked Ed, should have picked the other brother. No one likes Jeremy, no one will like Owen. Labour need to get one thing right and choose a leader people can get behind or they simply will not win.

Yes a leader is important,as time goes on, depending on what happens, it may be the voters do not like Theresa My lording it over us as PM after being elected by only 60% of Conservative MPs.
You omit to point out when you mention Browns back door Leadership deal, which in my view was wrong,, that he was elected unopposed, he actually became PM with no votes cast against him from any Labour MP at the time.
Far more voted that Theresa May got here.

Also you seem to have omitted that when Brown took over ,he got a resurgence for labour in the polls,taking labour into the lead again.
All experts were thinking he would call an election in the Autumn of 2007 as he was so high in the polling.
Who knows what may have happened had the problems and banking crisis not happened in 2008.
Again, you never know what crisis what may come to scupper the best of plans in politics.

I actually know no one at all, not ordinary person or political pundit who also believed the Conservatives would get an overall majority in the may 2015,all polling, all news, all expectations was for another hung parliament.
Furthermore in Scotland, you are right, the SNP has taken labour votes, however that does not necessarily need to hinder labour as the SNP would much rather have a Labour led govt in Westminster and would never help a Conservative led govt.

Also, James Callaghan was miles ahead of Margaret Thatcher as the person liked best to be PM in 1979, yet she beat him.

Going further back too, Harold Wilson suffered one of the most surprising and unexpected defeats in 1970, when virtually from nowhere, Ted Heath came through to beat him then.

Politics is full of shocks in history, none moreso than way back in 1945 when war leader Winston Churchill was not just beaten by labours Attlee but beaten by a landslide in that election right after the war..

I am not going to join in with personal insulting of politicians as you do with Corbyn,I judge politicians on what they actually stand for and do,no need for personal insults, which is something I admire in Corbyn, he does not engage in that.

Do I however wish Labour had another leader, yes,again though, now if there is a split if Corbyn wins, I do not now think it will be a bad one as to numbers.
I am not that sure there will be one now either and hope not.

Never underestimate Parties and their machinery to fight back,the Conservatives fell way under 200 seats in 1997 and 2001,yet still came back.
You may be right that labour cannot win the next election but things have never been as they are now with political minefields that can pop up anywhere and anytime now too.
Which can wipe away support for a party and also govts. at a stroke.

I do however believe that Labour can seemingly against the odds at present, do well well enough to remove the Conservatives overall majority.
UKIP are actually also doing pretty poorly in the polls now too, the Lib Dems have made no progress really since may 2015.
I think writing anything and anyone off as to politics at the present time, is unwise.

The UK is in massively uncharted waters, this govt. is really not that popular.
A lot to come forward and a lot to possibly go wrong and right for all in politics, which can really make big changes possible and predictions at this time worthless.
The unpredictability of politics is what makes it exciting for me and really with years to go, no one can know what may happen.
It may yet be if Theresa may starts to get the EU issue wrong, she could be gone before the next election.

There could yet be another challenge to Corbyn if he wins this again too.

Who knows, no one, not I, you or really anyone else.

The voters will decide the next election and it will depend on their mood alone what happens and no one has much idea of what they may be looking for or want,or more to the point what all the new eligible voters will be looking for, come that next election.
Voters who more often than not can spring big surprises on Parties and their leaders in elections and anytime they get to vote really.

[bots]

Those with a natural leaning toward labour can say how wonderful the new leader is till the cows come home, it doesn't change the fact that even amongst many labour voters, the 2 potential leaders are not the correct candidate. Circumstances can change to make a candidate more acceptable, but to make it clear a turd with a bow on it, is still a turd, and I am afraid that peoples opinion is so low of the candidates, its beyond compare.

[Livia]

Those with a natural leaning toward labour can say how wonderful the new leader is till the cows come home, it doesn't change the fact that even amongst many labour voters, the 2 potential leaders are not the correct candidate. Circumstances can change to make a candidate more acceptable, but to make it clear a turd with a bow on it, is still a turd, and I am afraid that peoples opinion is so low of the candidates, its beyond compare.

Made me LOL...

[smudgie]

They both are, one wants to daydream about talking Is down and getting North Korea not to get a bomb. The other one thinks he can just ignore the Brexit referendum because he doesn't agree with it. What a pair of tossers. And this is why Labour haven't a hope in hell of getting into government anytime soon.

Yes, spot on.
Such a shame really.

[the truth]

Yes a leader is important,as time goes on, depending on what happens, it may be the voters do not like Theresa My lording it over us as PM after being elected by only 60% of Conservative MPs.
You omit to point out when you mention Browns back door Leadership deal, which in my view was wrong,, that he was elected unopposed, he actually became PM with no votes cast against him from any Labour MP at the time.
Far more voted that Theresa May got here.

Also you seem to have omitted that when Brown took over ,he got a resurgence for labour in the polls,taking labour into the lead again.
All experts were thinking he would call an election in the Autumn of 2007 as he was so high in the polling.
Who knows what may have happened had the problems and banking crisis not happened in 2008.
Again, you never know what crisis what may come to scupper the best of plans in politics.

I actually know no one at all, not ordinary person or political pundit who also believed the Conservatives would get an overall majority in the may 2015,all polling, all news, all expectations was for another hung parliament.
Furthermore in Scotland, you are right, the SNP has taken labour votes, however that does not necessarily need to hinder labour as the SNP would much rather have a Labour led govt in Westminster and would never help a Conservative led govt.

Also, James Callaghan was miles ahead of Margaret Thatcher as the person liked best to be PM in 1979, yet she beat him.

Going further back too, Harold Wilson suffered one of the most surprising and unexpected defeats in 1970, when virtually from nowhere, Ted Heath came through to beat him then.

Politics is full of shocks in history, none moreso than way back in 1945 when war leader Winston Churchill was not just beaten by labours Attlee but beaten by a landslide in that election right after the war..

I am not going to join in with personal insulting of politicians as you do with Corbyn,I judge politicians on what they actually stand for and do,no need for personal insults, which is something I admire in Corbyn, he does not engage in that.

Do I however wish Labour had another leader, yes,again though, now if there is a split if Corbyn wins, I do not now think it will be a bad one as to numbers.
I am not that sure there will be one now either and hope not.

Never underestimate Parties and their machinery to fight back,the Conservatives fell way under 200 seats in 1997 and 2001,yet still came back.
You may be right that labour cannot win the next election but things have never been as they are now with political minefields that can pop up anywhere and anytime now too.
Which can wipe away support for a party and also govts. at a stroke.

I do however believe that Labour can seemingly against the odds at present, do well well enough to remove the Conservatives overall majority.
UKIP are actually also doing pretty poorly in the polls now too, the Lib Dems have made no progress really since may 2015.
I think writing anything and anyone off as to politics at the present time, is unwise.

The UK is in massively uncharted waters, this govt. is really not that popular.
A lot to come forward and a lot to possibly go wrong and right for all in politics, which can really make big changes possible and predictions at this time worthless.
The unpredictability of politics is what makes it exciting for me and really with years to go, no one can know what may happen.
It may yet be if Theresa may starts to get the EU issue wrong, she could be gone before the next election.

There could yet be another challenge to Corbyn if he wins this again too.

Who knows, no one, not I, you or really anyone else.

The voters will decide the next election and it will depend on their mood alone what happens and no one has much idea of what they may be looking for or want,or more to the point what all the new eligible voters will be looking for, come that next election.
Voters who more often than not can spring big surprises on Parties and their leaders in elections and anytime they get to vote really.

its deeper than that

labour have destroyed their core base plus they have been hopelessly wasteful in wales for 100 years....the way they run councils there is an absolute disgrace , in many cases riding roughshod over the laws of the land and the welsh government turning a blind eye
vast swathes of public land have been sold in the past 3 years in wales at 20 times below the market value, its like the wild west. and no one is accountable.
the way theyve run the nhs is a national disgrace , waiting lists are off the charts in wales and the funding is way behind england. just 1 of infinite disasters by labour in wales.

[jaxie]

Those with a natural leaning toward labour can say how wonderful the new leader is till the cows come home, it doesn't change the fact that even amongst many labour voters, the 2 potential leaders are not the correct candidate. Circumstances can change to make a candidate more acceptable, but to make it clear a turd with a bow on it, is still a turd, and I am afraid that peoples opinion is so low of the candidates, its beyond compare.

:clap1: Well put.

[jaxie]

Yes a leader is important,as time goes on, depending on what happens, it may be the voters do not like Theresa My lording it over us as PM after being elected by only 60% of Conservative MPs.
You omit to point out when you mention Browns back door Leadership deal, which in my view was wrong,, that he was elected unopposed, he actually became PM with no votes cast against him from any Labour MP at the time.
Far more voted that Theresa May got here.

Also you seem to have omitted that when Brown took over ,he got a resurgence for labour in the polls,taking labour into the lead again.
All experts were thinking he would call an election in the Autumn of 2007 as he was so high in the polling.
Who knows what may have happened had the problems and banking crisis not happened in 2008.
Again, you never know what crisis what may come to scupper the best of plans in politics.

I actually know no one at all, not ordinary person or political pundit who also believed the Conservatives would get an overall majority in the may 2015,all polling, all news, all expectations was for another hung parliament.
Furthermore in Scotland, you are right, the SNP has taken labour votes, however that does not necessarily need to hinder labour as the SNP would much rather have a Labour led govt in Westminster and would never help a Conservative led govt.

Also, James Callaghan was miles ahead of Margaret Thatcher as the person liked best to be PM in 1979, yet she beat him.

Going further back too, Harold Wilson suffered one of the most surprising and unexpected defeats in 1970, when virtually from nowhere, Ted Heath came through to beat him then.

Politics is full of shocks in history, none moreso than way back in 1945 when war leader Winston Churchill was not just beaten by labours Attlee but beaten by a landslide in that election right after the war..

I am not going to join in with personal insulting of politicians as you do with Corbyn,I judge politicians on what they actually stand for and do,no need for personal insults, which is something I admire in Corbyn, he does not engage in that.

Do I however wish Labour had another leader, yes,again though, now if there is a split if Corbyn wins, I do not now think it will be a bad one as to numbers.
I am not that sure there will be one now either and hope not.

Never underestimate Parties and their machinery to fight back,the Conservatives fell way under 200 seats in 1997 and 2001,yet still came back.
You may be right that labour cannot win the next election but things have never been as they are now with political minefields that can pop up anywhere and anytime now too.
Which can wipe away support for a party and also govts. at a stroke.

I do however believe that Labour can seemingly against the odds at present, do well well enough to remove the Conservatives overall majority.
UKIP are actually also doing pretty poorly in the polls now too, the Lib Dems have made no progress really since may 2015.
I think writing anything and anyone off as to politics at the present time, is unwise.

The UK is in massively uncharted waters, this govt. is really not that popular.
A lot to come forward and a lot to possibly go wrong and right for all in politics, which can really make big changes possible and predictions at this time worthless.
The unpredictability of politics is what makes it exciting for me and really with years to go, no one can know what may happen.
It may yet be if Theresa may starts to get the EU issue wrong, she could be gone before the next election.

There could yet be another challenge to Corbyn if he wins this again too.

Who knows, no one, not I, you or really anyone else.

The voters will decide the next election and it will depend on their mood alone what happens and no one has much idea of what they may be looking for or want,or more to the point what all the new eligible voters will be looking for, come that next election.
Voters who more often than not can spring big surprises on Parties and their leaders in elections and anytime they get to vote really.

As bit on the slide said a turd with a bow is still a turd. I think you are missing the point about Scotland and your friends at the SNP. If Labour can't claw some of those seats back they can't ever have enough votes to win a general election. Scotland has always been vital to Labour to win an election. A vote for Nicola Sturgeon in a general election is a vote for a Tory government.

[Kizzy]

Turd with a bow... what is it Corbyn has suggested that would classify him as a turd?
And what was it that dressed it with a bow?

[Livia]

What did Cameron ever say to suggest he was a lizard? Or that he was a Nazi... recalling your sig with him giving a Nazi salute. Mud gets slung on both sides. Thin skinned people don't last long in politics.

[joeysteele]

As bit on the slide said a turd with a bow is still a turd. I think you are missing the point about Scotland and your friends at the SNP. If Labour can't claw some of those seats back they can't ever have enough votes to win a general election. Scotland has always been vital to Labour to win an election. A vote for Nicola Sturgeon in a general election is a vote for a Tory government.

Not strictly accurate.

There are only 4 elections out of the 9 elections won by Labour post war,where if there were no Scottish seats, Labour would not have been able to form the govt.
They are the election of 1950,1964 and the 2 held in 1974,February and October respectively.

All the others, 1945, 1966,1997,2001 and 2005,Labour would have been the govt in any event,without any Scottish seats, also in fact very comfortably still so in 1945,1966,1997 and 2001, a little tighter in 2005 but still would have had an overall majority.


However you are right,in that the Scottish picture does make things look worse for Labour at present.
The one consolation being, that the SNP,( if there was the chance no matter how small),to support a Labour led govt. rather than a Conservative one, they would for sure do so.

[kirklancaster]

What did Cameron ever say to suggest he was a lizard? Or that he was a Nazi... recalling your sig with him giving a Nazi salute. Mud gets slung on both sides. Thin skinned people don't last long in politics.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: 'Sauce for the goose...'

[kirklancaster]

Corbyn is so pie in the sky is hilarious

:laugh: :laugh::laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Those with a natural leaning toward labour can say how wonderful the new leader is till the cows come home, it doesn't change the fact that even amongst many labour voters, the 2 potential leaders are not the correct candidate. Circumstances can change to make a candidate more acceptable, but to make it clear a turd with a bow on it, is still a turd, and I am afraid that peoples opinion is so low of the candidates, its beyond compare.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: I am going to write a new song with that title - Thank you. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

What did Cameron ever say to suggest he was a lizard? Or that he was a Nazi... recalling your sig with him giving a Nazi salute. Mud gets slung on both sides. Thin skinned people don't last long in politics.

The sig that was objected to by someone with the thinnest skin ever?

Again what has been said that would classify either of these candidates as turds? I did ask the question first.

[joeysteele]

If Jeremy Corbyn would embrace electoral reform, that would appeal to many younger voters and those who believe a vote is wasted.

It still may not win him an election but he could make it that a Conservative party was left powerless with no majority to stop electoral reform, since all other Parties in the Commons would strongly support a change now.

That is one way forward, Blair talked about it, Brown and Miliband looked at it, it just takes someone to actually go for it now.
What an election it would be fought on that idea.
One thing is for sure, the Conservatives will never ever go for it.

[bots]

One thing is for sure, the Conservatives will never ever go for it.

It was the Conservatives that gave everyone the opportunity to vote for a change in the electoral system ... and what was the result again?

[Niamh.]

Turd with a bow... what is it Corbyn has suggested that would classify him as a turd?
And what was it that dressed it with a bow?

What did Cameron ever say to suggest he was a lizard? Or that he was a Nazi... recalling your sig with him giving a Nazi salute. Mud gets slung on both sides. Thin skinned people don't last long in politics.

The sig that was objected to by someone with the thinnest skin ever?

Again what has been said that would classify either of these candidates as turds? I did ask the question first.

Are you two seriously having an argument about Poos and Dicky Bows? :hehe:

ETA : is it a normal Bow or a dicky bow? :think:

[joeysteele]

It was the Conservatives that gave everyone the opportunity to vote for a change in the electoral system ... and what was the result again?

That was only to appease the Lib Dems,Conservative MPs however, much to the annoyance of the Lib Dems spoke out and some canvassed against the change.
Also it was AV, not really that substantial a change.

Also they allowed the referendum to be held right at the time they were starting the top down re-organisation of the NHS plan, which when the Lib Dems were supporting those plans,the tide swung heavily against the Lib Dems and Clegg in particular.

So a plan well and truly scuppered by the leaders of that coalition.
We need more than just AV however,people were also rightly not convinced that AV would change much really as to helping to make voting really count across the board..
A proper PR system would alter things dramatically, it will need one of the big parties to embrace it as a policy.

I hope that will be the Labour party who does,(John Mcdonnell is seemingly more sympathetic to the idea), as every other Party in the Commons would now support a change except for the Conservatives.

[kirklancaster]

Are you two seriously having an argument about Poos and Dicky Bows? :hehe:

ETA : is it a normal Bow or a dicky bow? :think:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: POST OF the DAY.

[bots]

That was only to appease the Lib Dems,Conservative MPs however, much to the annoyance of the Lib Dems spoke out and some canvassed against the change.
Also it was AV, not really that substantial a change.

Also they allowed the referendum to be held right at the time they were starting the top down re-organisation of the NHS plan, which when the Lib Dems were supporting those plans,the tide swung heavily against the Lib Dems and Clegg in particular.

So a plan well and truly scuppered by the leaders of that coalition.
We need more than just AV however,people were also rightly not convinced that AV would change much really as to helping to make voting really count across the board..
A proper PR system would alter things dramatically, it will need one of the big parties to embrace it as a policy.

I hope that will be the Labour party who does,(John Mcdonnell is seemingly more sympathetic to the idea), as every other Party in the Commons would now support a change except for the Conservatives.

ok, so what should we do, have a vote every year, every time someone thinks up a new voting system?

I mean, the tories made no secret of not wanting electoral change. so did labour ... they put forward a system that actually had the most possibility of getting support, and the public said no.

We all get angry at elections when they don't go our way, but constantly moaning about the system becomes very tiresome, to me anyway. There are many more important things in life to get worked up about I think. For a new system to get support it needs to be a lot more than the grass looks greener

[kirklancaster]

ok, so what should we do, have a vote every year, every time someone thinks up a new voting system?

I mean, the tories made no secret of not wanting electoral change. so did labour ... they put forward a system that actually had the most possibility of getting support, and the public said no.

We all get angry at elections when they don't go our way, but constantly moaning about the system becomes very tiresome, to me anyway. There are many more important things in life to get worked up about I think. For a new system to get support it needs to be a lot more than the grass looks greener

I could not agree more.

[Kizzy]

Are you two seriously having an argument about Poos and Dicky Bows? :hehe:

ETA : is it a normal Bow or a dicky bow? :think:

It's NOT an argument, it's a debate!

It's the great turd debate of 2016 :hmph:

[jaxie]

Are you two seriously having an argument about Poos and Dicky Bows? :hehe:

ETA : is it a normal Bow or a dicky bow? :think:

I think it must be a dicky, it's closer to the area in question.

[Livia]

The sig that was objected to by someone with the thinnest skin ever?

Again what has been said that would classify either of these candidates as turds? I did ask the question first.

As you well know, I objected to your sig. Do you need me to spell out why? I don't have to have a thick skin so people can have a chuckle at the Nazis, I suspect you only used it because you knew it would offend. Anyway, I am not a politician neither am I aspiring to be one.

Turds, Lizards.... it's all the same. You can't object to someone calling your team a name when you've been slagging the other team since you joined.

[bots]

Are you two seriously having an argument about Poos and Dicky Bows? :hehe:

ETA : is it a normal Bow or a dicky bow? :think:

i couldnt find an example with a bow .... can i change it to christmas hat :think:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/23/24/15/232415191b8801c0ed82eba714831f4c.jpg

[Kizzy]

As you well know, I objected to your sig. Do you need me to spell out why? I don't have to have a thick skin so people can have a chuckle at the Nazis, I suspect you only used it because you knew it would offend. Anyway, I am not a politician neither am I aspiring to be one.

Turds, Lizards.... it's all the same. You can't object to someone calling your team a name when you've been slagging the other team since you joined.

Oh was it you? I had no idea.

I don't object to the name I simply asked ( not from you incidentally ) what made them turds as I was curious.

I wouldn't 'slag' anyone.

[Niamh.]

i couldnt find an example with a bow .... can i change it to christmas hat :think:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/23/24/15/232415191b8801c0ed82eba714831f4c.jpg

Good ol Mr Hanky :flutter:

[Johnnyuk123]

For me it was like watching this...
S4AmLcBLZWY

[joeysteele]

ok, so what should we do, have a vote every year, every time someone thinks up a new voting system?

I mean, the tories made no secret of not wanting electoral change. so did labour ... they put forward a system that actually had the most possibility of getting support, and the public said no.

We all get angry at elections when they don't go our way, but constantly moaning about the system becomes very tiresome, to me anyway. There are many more important things in life to get worked up about I think. For a new system to get support it needs to be a lot more than the grass looks greener

Actually it is hardly every year, the AV vote was 2011,over 5 years ago now.

I repeat, AV was not that big a change, what we need is a proposal for a full PR system of voting not AV.
Where parties that get over 10% of the votes at least get a fair proportion of seats too.

The Lib Dems got 8% in 2015, they got 8 seats, UKIP was around 13% and got only 1 seat.
We have now had 3 elections in a row where the leading party has had over 300 seats for only between 35% and 37% of the votes cast.

Also 'we do not need' a referendum either, just party policy for people to vote on in a general election.
PR was brought in for the European elections, the Welsh, Scottish and Irish assemblies too, all done without a referendum.
PR now for the national govt of the UK would just be bringing all in line with everything else around the UK and would be fairer.

As I believe in consensus politics too,I now see PR as the only way to bring together more the consensus minded MPs of all Parties,to maybe then actually work together more too.
Something that will never be achieved at all under this outdated current system, that was not designed really for multi party elections.

Also please don't play the party politics card with me, I am hammering here the Labour govts win in 2005 too, they got a 68 overall majority then, with only around 35% of the votes, as opposed to the Conservatives gaining just over 32%.
The 2010 govt was only made credible by the joining of the Lib Dems in full coalition, with their votes and seats won in that general election.

I balance my arguments whenever I can.