Media blackout

[Kizzy]

What is going on?

There is a protest march in London today and yet there is nothing in our media, there is a live link on RT....except for some reason google won't connect to RT for me, every other site no problem but not that one :/
There are also no results for a protest today on google.

[kirklancaster]

Perhaps people are fed up with protests, and the media are using the space for more interesting events - such as a clog dancing festival being rained off in Tintwistle Lancashire or similar worthy news.

[Livia]

There are protest marches every day of the week in London, everyone with a grievance makes their way there. If they reported every one there'd be no room for other news.

[user104658]

Kirk is right, people have been ground down by uncaring politics and are now submissive and subservient, and so not interested in things like marches and protests.

That's what you were saying, right Kirk?

[Kizzy]

#marchforeurope

[Livia]

Stop trolling, TS, that's not what Kirk said.

[Kizzy]

Perhaps people are fed up with protests, and the media are using the space for more interesting events - such as a clog dancing festival being rained off in Tintwistle Lancashire or similar worthy news.

Fed up with experts and protests? Wow what a nation of lowly serfs you envisage.

[Kizzy]

Stop trolling, TS, that's not what Kirk said.

That is exactly what he said.

[Livia]

The referendum is finished. More people should have got off their arses then, not now... to march for no purpose and then wonder why the press isn't interested.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Some dull march?

Its not news, no one cares and there is other more interesting things happening

Watching some sore losers walk is not news

[Livia]

That is exactly what he said.

You're the first one to whine about people putting words in your mouth. Funny, that.

[Livia]

Some dull march?

Its not news, no one cares and there is other more interesting things happening

Watching some sore losers walk is not news

Exactly.

[Liam-]

Protests are great when they're done right and for something that can actually be changed, but when they're done every other week, for something that is just not going to change, they sort of become redundant and quite a nuisance for the people who are just going about their business in the area I imagine, my reaction whenever I hear about protests these days is generally 'oh, what for now?' because they're so common I just can't keep up with what's being protested against, people get their megaphones and signs out for anything these days, it's lost it's power and I just don't really care anymore.

[Pete.]

A true Coupure Electrique :omgno:

[Kizzy]

You're the first one to whine about people putting words in your mouth. Funny, that.

The words were from his own mouth...I didn't put anything in there :/

[Livia]

The words were from his own mouth...I didn't put anything in there :/

Red Kirk's post, then read TS's and then you will see that is not "exactly what he said".

Anyhoo... no one's interested in another protest that won't change a democratic result.

[kirklancaster]

That is exactly what he said.

:shrug::laugh::laugh::laugh: How UTTERLY confused are your views?

You took obvious umbrage at my post because you took what I said at 'FACE VALUE' and thus responded with the comment below:

"Fed up with experts and protests? Wow what a nation of lowly serfs you envisage."

THEN - ToySoldier responds to my post with the sarcastic comments below:

"Kirk is right, people have been ground down by uncaring politics and are now submissive and subservient, and so not interested in things like marches and protests.

That's what you were saying, right Kirk?"

To which Livia - rightly counters that the above is NOT what I was saying, BUT because it is Livia who has corrected your buddy, you then post:

"That is exactly what he said".

Which is it?

Am I saying the things which you responded to?

Or the TOTALLY OPPOSITE things which ToySoldier SAYS I am saying, for which Livia corrected him, and which you then CLAIMED that I WAS saying?

Confused? I am. :laugh::wavey:

[kirklancaster]

The words were from his own mouth...I didn't put anything in there :/

If I did not exist ToySoldier would Troll himself.

And if you were all alone in this world, you would argue with yourself.

Life is really sad for some it appears.

[Kizzy]

You agreed with the statement that people have had enough of experts during the referendum and following it you now suggest that 'people' have also had enough of protests....clearly not as they are still protesting in their thousands.

I would prefer it if you didn't refer to people on this thread as trolls please.

[Kizzy]

Red Kirk's post, then read TS's and then you will see that is not "exactly what he said".

Anyhoo... no one's interested in another protest that won't change a democratic result.

I can iron out any disagreements without your input, it's not necessary for you to police the thread thank you.

[Livia]

Hands up whp wants serious debates to go back to being about debates, instead of incessant trolling and bickering?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/PadockPig/hand-up.jpg

[smudgie]

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/PadockPig/hand-up.jpg

Yes please.

[Liam-]

What Livia said

[Kizzy]

Hands up whp wants serious debates to go back to being about debates, instead of incessant trolling and bickering?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/PadockPig/hand-up.jpg

Take your tag teaming posts elsewhere please.

[Livia]

You didn't put your hand up, Kizzy. I'm putting you down as "against".

[kirklancaster]

Hands up who wants serious debates to go back to being about debates, instead of incessant trolling and bickering?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/PadockPig/hand-up.jpg

I've got to go record another song for the Music thread now, because you have inspired me Liv:

...... "To dream the impossible dream.... " :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Sigh... the baiting and trolling has worsened here, I'll just patiently wait for you both to stop before I continue with the thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sigh... the baiting and trolling has worsened here, I'll just patiently wait for you both to stop before I continue with the thread.

there is nothing to continue, the answer is no one cares about the "march"

[Kizzy]

You may not feel there is however I do, if you don't wish to be part of the discussion then that's fine.

[Cherie]

There isn't any point reporting it as the deal is done, there was some uncertainly while we waited for a new PM as to how he/she would proceed, but it's now been confirmed there won't be a new referendum and there won't be a GE, even if there was to be a new reffo I think the result would be more or less the same with the percentages being very close in favour of one side or the other, if the "ins" won what would that achieve just more arguing, we made the decision and now we must get on with it, a lot of people on both sides didn't actually know what they were voting for, a friend of mine got off a plane in Alicante last week and the majority of the plane headed to the non EU customs queue :facepalm: that's what we are dealing with :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Well exactly, that's what the issue appears to be now more than wanting a new referendum, protesting about the misinformation and the subterfuge surrounding brexit then and now.
Being assured there would be discussions in parliament and then we discover there will be no discussions... so why the secrecy? what will the brexit terms be?
How democratic is a process where decisions are made that have not been debated on?

[kirklancaster]

There isn't any point reporting it as the deal is done, there was some uncertainly while we waited for a new PM as to how he/she would proceed, but it's now been confirmed there won't be a new referendum and there won't be a GE, even if there was to be a new reffo I think the result would be more or less the same with the percentages being very close in favour of one side or the other, if the "ins" won what would that achieve just more arguing, we made the decision and now we must get on with it, a lot of people on both sides didn't actually know what they were voting for, a friend of mine got off a plane in Alicante last week and the majority of the plane headed to the non EU customs queue :facepalm: that's what we are dealing with :laugh:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: PERFECTLY articulated Cherie. There REALLY is no more to be said.

The Referendum is history. Those who do not like the the Democratic decision will just have to lump it.

[Cherie]

Well exactly, that's what the issue appears to be now more than wanting a new referendum, protesting about the misinformation and the subterfuge surrounding brexit then and now.
Being assured there would be discussions in parliament and then we discover there will be no discussions... so why the secrecy? what will the brexit terms be?
How democratic is a process where decisions are made that have not been debated on?


I didn't think we had been assured of discussions in parliament, I know they were called for after the vote, maybe I missed those assurances, who knows what the terms will be, it makes no difference now as we can't vote back in as we won't be given the option :shrug: I'm told people are working behind the scenes to garner the best deal, who knows if that's true or not, the whole thing is a shambles

[Crimson Dynamo]

the state of them

:laugh2:

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DA8F/production/_91015955_mediaitem91015954.jpg

[Kizzy]

I didn't think we had been assured of discussions in parliament, I know they were called for after the vote, maybe I missed those assurances, who knows what the terms will be, it makes no difference now as we can't vote back in as we won't be given the option :shrug: I'm told people are working behind the scenes to garner the best deal, who knows if that's true or not, the whole thing is a shambles

Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)

May I begin by thanking the Foreign Secretary for welcoming me to this new job? It is right to say that we are compact team, but we have the advantage of being made up of two blessed difficult women, and so we are formidable and up for the task. If rumours of promotion are true, this may be my final session with him before he takes another job. It would seem that everyone is in flux. He has a reputation of being a formidable but approachable Minister to shadow, so I will be sorry if our acquaintance is so brief.

The Foreign Secretary rightly said that he has given assurances that he will consult Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar on the Government’s negotiating strategy for Brexit prior to triggering article 50. Will those assurances also apply in respect of Her Majesty’s Opposition, to ensure that the needs and concerns of the communities we represent are reflected as the Government develop their negotiating strategy?

Mr Hammond


First, I am surprised to hear the hon. Lady saying that she expects promotion. I thought that those in the Labour party who were expecting promotion threw their hat in the ring yesterday—perhaps she is going to be a late entrant to that competition. On the substance of her question, of course there will be extensive discussion about all these issues in Parliament. The Opposition will have an opportunity to present their views, and we shall listen carefully to them.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-07-12/debates/16071240000015/EUWithdrawalNegotiations

[kirklancaster]

the state of them

:laugh2:

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DA8F/production/_91015955_mediaitem91015954.jpg

:laugh: There are plenty of countries which remain as part of the EU for them to migrate to if they cannot accept democracy here.

Well, for now there is - until the whole EU disintegrates shortly, that is.

[the truth]

Kirk is right, people have been ground down by uncaring politics and are now submissive and subservient, and so not interested in things like marches and protests.

That's what you were saying, right Kirk?

these protests are often mindless
just a large bunch of people chating the same mindless slogan for 8 hours?
that is the same pack mentality that spat at fellow miners who dared to go to work to earn a living for their families

[Kizzy]

Not everyone accepts being lied to on such a fundamental issue as sovereignty though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not everyone accepts being lied to on such a fundamental issue as sovereignty though.

The head of Remain, DC


Question: "will you resign if you lose?"

Answer: "No"


Loses, resigns

:facepalm:

[Kizzy]

these protests are often mindless
just a large bunch of people chating the same mindless slogan for 8 hours?
that is the same pack mentality that spat at fellow miners who dared to go to work to earn a living for their families

And how are those mining communities today that were given assurances of prosperity and jobs following the crushing of their industry?....

[the truth]

And how are those mining communities today that were given assurances of prosperity and jobs following the crushing of their industry?....

destroyed by the extremes on both sides....as usual the failure to engage listen communicate and compromise brought upon total destruction....the first rule of conflict resolution is simply that all parties agree that the solution lies somewhere between the extreme views

[Kizzy]

The head of Remain, DC


Question: "will you resign if you lose?"

Answer: "No"


Loses, resigns

:facepalm:

Yes his heart was truly in it, as was Theresa Mays clearly as she steers the runaway brexit train :facepalm:

[Kizzy]

destroyed by the extremes on both sides....as usual the failure to engage listen communicate and compromise brought upon total destruction....the first rule of conflict resolution is simply that all parties agree that the solution lies somewhere between the extreme views

They were lied to, there was no alternative and were persecuted and blacklisted.
How can fighting to keep your job be an extreme view?

[Cherie]

Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)

May I begin by thanking the Foreign Secretary for welcoming me to this new job? It is right to say that we are compact team, but we have the advantage of being made up of two blessed difficult women, and so we are formidable and up for the task. If rumours of promotion are true, this may be my final session with him before he takes another job. It would seem that everyone is in flux. He has a reputation of being a formidable but approachable Minister to shadow, so I will be sorry if our acquaintance is so brief.

The Foreign Secretary rightly said that he has given assurances that he will consult Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar on the Government’s negotiating strategy for Brexit prior to triggering article 50. Will those assurances also apply in respect of Her Majesty’s Opposition, to ensure that the needs and concerns of the communities we represent are reflected as the Government develop their negotiating strategy?

Mr Hammond


First, I am surprised to hear the hon. Lady saying that she expects promotion. I thought that those in the Labour party who were expecting promotion threw their hat in the ring yesterday—perhaps she is going to be a late entrant to that competition. On the substance of her question, of course there will be extensive discussion about all these issues in Parliament. The Opposition will have an opportunity to present their views, and we shall listen carefully to them.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-07-12/debates/16071240000015/EUWithdrawalNegotiations


Maybe it will be discussed then? I was under the impression no negotiations would take place until Article 50 is triggered, what comes first the chicken or the egg,

[Kizzy]

No, that's the whole point of the protests... the fact that in July it was stated there would be discussions and then come august that assurance was reneged on.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its generally accepted that TM is running a good ship

There is no alternative anyroad

[Kizzy]

Its generally accepted that TM is running a good ship

There is no alternative anyroad

Ah well that's the end of the discussion for you then.

[Cherie]

No, that's the whole point of the protests... the fact that in July it was stated there would be discussions and then come august that assurance was reneged on.


I'm completely confused :laugh: I thought no deals would be made until Article 50 was triggered, it's not like the UK can out terms the EU are in the driving seat vroom vroom

[the truth]

They were lied to, there was no alternative and were persecuted and blacklisted.
How can fighting to keep your job be an extreme view?

lol I live in a minining community both sides lied and bullied like hell, the unions were just as guilty as maggie thatcher milk snatcher...these morons couldnt find a compromise if it slapped them in the face. they needed to compromise and concentrate all the best miners in the best most economic pits with bigger wider shafts too. instead of the crazy stand off we got. it was so obvious thatcher would stock pile coal and drive the coal men to breaking point. but the macho unions leaders were more concerned with their own egos than the long term prospect of old king coal

[Kizzy]

lol I live in a minining community both sides lied and bullied like hell, the unions were just as guilty as maggie thatcher milk snatcher...these morons couldnt find a compromise if it slapped them in the face. they needed to compromise and concentrate all the best miners in the best most economic pits with bigger wider shafts too. instead of the crazy stand off we got. it was so obvious thatcher would stock pile coal and drive the coal men to breaking point. but the macho unions leaders were more concerned with their own egos than the long term prospect of old king coal

How about you start a thread and we'll continue this discussion there?

[Kizzy]

I'm completely confused :laugh: I thought no deals would be made until Article 50 was triggered, it's not like the UK can out terms the EU are in the driving seat vroom vroom

We aren't talking deals just discussions prior to the trigger, as in what takes priority what are the concerns of the electorate and business.. that kind of thing.
That has been railroaded and not many have so much as noticed, except perhaps these people protesting, to which many say 'oh look another protest' in a ignorant/dismissive manner.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Kizzy, you haven't really got over losing this thing have you?

[Kizzy]

Kizzy, you haven't really got over losing this thing have you?

Is this just you baiting now because you haven't anything to offer the discussion?

[arista]

What is going on?

There is a protest march in London today and yet there is nothing in our media, there is a live link on RT....except for some reason google won't connect to RT for me, every other site no problem but not that one :/
There are also no results for a protest today on google.


Kizzy , if you can Catch Ch4HD News at 6:40PM

[arista]

Its was just on SkyNewsHD
free online

[Kizzy]

thanks Arista, anyone else not able to access RT from google?

[arista]

thanks Arista, anyone else not able to access RT from google?

Goggle On firefox has it
no problem


https://www.rt.com/news/

[arista]

BBC London News - Did not have it

But Well done to ITV London News
who did have it

[Kizzy]

well no luck on RT but the guardian and the BBC have decided in the last hour to report on it, so nice of them.

[the truth]

the left blame everything on the daily mail lol its hilarious

[_Tom_]

It's just embarrassing now. :umm2:

This is the best thing to come of it though:
http://news.sky.com/story/izzard-grapples-with-balaclava-clad-beret-thief-10563847

"The pair clashed near Downing Street and then Izzard, wearing high heels, chased after him before the man was caught by police." :joker::joker:

[_Tom_]

the state of them

:laugh2:

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DA8F/production/_91015955_mediaitem91015954.jpg

:joker:

[Kizzy]

the left blame everything on the daily mail lol its hilarious

Who mentioned the daily mail?

[Kizzy]

It's just embarrassing now. :umm2:

This is the best thing to come of it though:
http://news.sky.com/story/izzard-grapples-with-balaclava-clad-beret-thief-10563847

"The pair clashed near Downing Street and then Izzard, wearing high heels, chased after him before the man was caught by police." :joker::joker:

If anyone elses bag was snatched would you be laughing?...

[Jack_]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/06/10/brexit-june-10-16_custom-8f2c82dd6d2ef45b914a4419d7c235b44fa6dfb8-s900-c85.jpg

:joker: look at the state of them, the National Front's a bit of a who these days lads x

[_Tom_]

If anyone elses bag was snatched would you be laughing?...

You mean beret?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/06/10/brexit-june-10-16_custom-8f2c82dd6d2ef45b914a4419d7c235b44fa6dfb8-s900-c85.jpg

:joker: look at the state of them, the National Front's a bit of a who these days lads x

What's that gotvto with this lame march or did yoiu just discover google iimages?

[Alf]

Can't these morons protest about something worthy and important, like bringing smoking back to our pubs.

These people spend all their lives fighting the establishment, but when it's come to the crunch, they've sided with? The establishment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Can't these morons protest about something worthy and important, like bringing smoking back to our pubs.

These people spend all their lives fighting the establishment, but when it's come to the crunch, they've sided with? The establishment.

Its like a march to complain about Leicester winning the league. Pathetic:joker:

[jaxie]

Um hardly a black out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

Makes you a bit sad though to see all the people who want to sell us to the EU and can't accept a vote that didn't go their way.

[Mitchell]

Kizzy, you haven't really got over losing this thing have you?

Well actually no and she doesn't have to, yes we democratically voted to leave the EU, but almost half of us didn't want to leave, we don't automatically have to be ok with the decision, we have as much right to be annoyed at the vote as you do to be happy with the result, we're not dictating to you how to react to it, don't do the same to others.

[jaxie]

Well exactly, that's what the issue appears to be now more than wanting a new referendum, protesting about the misinformation and the subterfuge surrounding brexit then and now.
Being assured there would be discussions in parliament and then we discover there will be no discussions... so why the secrecy? what will the brexit terms be?
How democratic is a process where decisions are made that have not been debated on?

We have a new PM who was supporting remain. You have to give her time to reset her thinking and gather information so we do this in the best interests of the UK. Would you rather they rushed it through and ****ed it up? :shrug:

[jaxie]

I'm completely confused :laugh: I thought no deals would be made until Article 50 was triggered, it's not like the UK can out terms the EU are in the driving seat vroom vroom

That's what was said. Nothing has been gone back on. It's been a month, a month in which they've all been on vacation. :shrug: Obviously there will be discussions, many of them.

[Kizzy]

You mean beret?

And bag..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/09/03/eddie_bag-large_trans++piVx42joSuAkZ0bE9ijUnLXU7gd1mWUCWbCau CXAOdc.jpg

[Kizzy]

Um hardly a black out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

Makes you a bit sad though to see all the people who want to sell us to the EU and can't accept a vote that didn't go their way.

You joined the convo a bit late that was put up early evening.

[Kizzy]

We have a new PM who was supporting remain. You have to give her time to reset her thinking and gather information so we do this in the best interests of the UK. Would you rather they rushed it through and ****ed it up? :shrug:

No I would rather it was discussed in parliament as was agreed in july.

[jaxie]

You joined the convo a bit late that was put up early evening.

Is there a set time when things have to be in the news then? :shrug:

[jaxie]

No I would rather it was discussed in parliament as was agreed on july.

Parliament has been closed for the summer. As it always is in August. :shrug: I believe there is a debate in the house scheduled for this coming Monday if you didn't know.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well actually no and she doesn't have to, yes we democratically voted to leave the EU, but almost half of us didn't want to leave, we don't automatically have to be ok with the decision, we have as much right to be annoyed at the vote as you do to be happy with the result, we're not dictating to you how to react to it, don't do the same to others.

So when you lose at snakes and ladders do you March through your house 3 months later? :joker:



Get real:hee:

[Johnnyuk123]

If I did not exist ToySoldier would Troll himself.

And if you were all alone in this world, you would argue with yourself.

Life is really sad for some it appears.

:joker::joker::worship::worship::worship:

[bots]

Just to clarify for those that are confused:

The referendum is not legally binding, it requires a vote in parliament for the UK to trigger article 50. Associated with that vote will be a debate. So, clearly all sides in parliament will have an opportunity to discuss/question what is going to happen, when it is to happen and how it is going to happen.

It is still quite possible for parliament to reject leaving the EU, however, one could expect any MP's that go against their area result not to be in parliament for long if they vote against.

So, for example, the SNP can vote to reject article 50 being triggered decisively as that was the will of the Scottish people. Its by no means yet a certainty that article 50 will get triggered in the time frame being proposed .... it may have many twists and turns yet. We will just need to wait an see.

So .... while some might want to say the vote is over, there is no point in protesting, that would be completely false. The legal vote has yet to take place.

[Johnnyuk123]

Hands up whp wants serious debates to go back to being about debates, instead of incessant trolling and bickering?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/PadockPig/hand-up.jpg

Me! I also would like the mods to do their job and remove those said trolls. Alas i can only dream.

[Kizzy]

Is there a set time when things have to be in the news then? :shrug:

When it's an organised live event you would have thought it would be reported on as it happened, unless the media didn't want to encourage anyone from offering their support... but that's my cynical side speaking.

[jaxie]

Just to clarify for those that are confused:

The referendum is not legally binding, it requires a vote in parliament for the UK to trigger article 50. Associated with that vote will be a debate. So, clearly all sides in parliament will have an opportunity to discuss/question what is going to happen, when it is to happen and how it is going to happen.

It is still quite possible for parliament to reject leaving the EU, however, one could expect any MP's that go against their area result not to be in parliament for long if they vote against.

So, for example, the SNP can vote to reject article 50 being triggered decisively as that was the will of the Scottish people. Its by no means yet a certainty that article 50 will get triggered in the time frame being proposed .... it may have many twists and turns yet. We will just need to wait an see.

So .... while some might want to say the vote is over, there is no point in protesting, that would be completely false. The legal vote has yet to take place.

It doesn't actually require a vote.

"Oliver Letwin, heading Whitehall’s Brexit unit, says legal advice is that article 50 can be invoked under royal prerogative."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/brexit-can-go-ahead-without-parliament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say

[jaxie]

When it's an organised live event you would have thought it would be reported on as it happened, unless the media didn't want to encourage anyone from offering their support... but that's my cynical side speaking.

I doubt most small protests like that would be considered important enough for live news.

[Kizzy]

Me! I also would like the mods to do their job and remove those said trolls. Alas i can only dream.

As would I , which reminds me you haven't actually commented on the topic at all here have you?...

[bots]

It doesn't actually require a vote.

"Oliver Letwin, heading Whitehall’s Brexit unit, says legal advice is that article 50 can be invoked under royal prerogative."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/brexit-can-go-ahead-without-parliament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say

they can try and bypass parliament if they wish, but it will set a precedent that I am sure no right minded MP would support. It would spell the end of democracy and place us in similar waters to some of our more exotic eastern european neighbours

[Kizzy]

I doubt most small protests like that would be considered important enough for live news.

It was massive RT covered it, it's important enough for Russian media but not ours?

[jaxie]

they can try and bypass parliament if they wish, but it will set a precedent that I am sure no right minded MP would support. It would spell the end of democracy and place us in similar waters to some of our more exotic eastern european neighbours

It was voted on by the people, there is no need for parliament, elected by the people, to ratify something the people have already voted on themselves. :shrug: That would be fairly undemocratic, to have to approve the vote of the nation because we can't be trusted?

[Kizzy]

Just to clarify for those that are confused:

The referendum is not legally binding, it requires a vote in parliament for the UK to trigger article 50. Associated with that vote will be a debate. So, clearly all sides in parliament will have an opportunity to discuss/question what is going to happen, when it is to happen and how it is going to happen.

It is still quite possible for parliament to reject leaving the EU, however, one could expect any MP's that go against their area result not to be in parliament for long if they vote against.

So, for example, the SNP can vote to reject article 50 being triggered decisively as that was the will of the Scottish people. Its by no means yet a certainty that article 50 will get triggered in the time frame being proposed .... it may have many twists and turns yet. We will just need to wait an see.

So .... while some might want to say the vote is over, there is no point in protesting, that would be completely false. The legal vote has yet to take place.

the protest is due to the fact there will be no vote.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/26/theresa-may-will-trigger-brexit-negotiations-without-commons-vot/

[bots]

It was voted on by the people, there is no need for parliament, elected by the people to ratify something the people have already voted on themselves. :shrug:

referendum's are not legally binding, this was made quite clear prior to the vote taking place.

I don't for one moment expect parliament to go against that vote, but it is the body that decides the nations course. It ensures proper democratic process is followed.

[Kizzy]

It was voted on by the people, there is no need for parliament, elected by the people, to ratify something the people have already voted on themselves. :shrug: That would be fairly undemocratic, to have to approve the vote of the nation because we can't be trusted?

it was not to annul or reverse the vote but to debate and vote on issues relating to brexit.

[jaxie]

referendum's are not legally binding, this was made quite clear prior to the vote taking place.

I don't for one moment expect parliament to go against that vote, but it is the body that decides the nations course. It ensures proper democratic process is followed.

Not seeing how you think that is more democratic than a vote by everyone in the country. Before the referendum it wasn't mentioned that it needed a parliamentary vote to happen.

What is profoundly undemocratic is to keep trying to have votes on it until you get the answer you want.

[jaxie]

it was not to annul or reverse the vote but to debate and vote on issues relating to brexit.

A debate is an entirely different thing to a vote of approval. As I mentioned previously there is reportedly a debate on this coming Monday about Brexit.

However again, the people have spoken, so it's only paying lip service to mp opinions.

[bots]

Not seeing how you think that is more democratic than a vote by everyone in the country. Before the referendum it wasn't mentioned that it needed a parliamentary vote to happen.

it was actually stated quite clearly that it would need a vote in parliament.

It should be a rubber stamping of the will of the people with an opportunity for parliament to guide the direction we as a country take on leaving. It ensures that all relevant issues are debated. Surely that can only be a good thing. We all want a balanced withdrawal that safeguards the British people

[Kizzy]

it was actually stated quite clearly that it would need a vote in parliament.

It should be a rubber stamping of the will of the people with an opportunity for parliament to guide the direction we as a country take on leaving. It ensures that all relevant issues are debated. Surely that can only be a good thing. We all want a balanced withdrawal that safeguards the British people

Yeah, we won't be getting that... not for a minute did I think we would.

[jaxie]

it was actually stated quite clearly that it would need a vote in parliament.

It should be a rubber stamping of the will of the people with an opportunity for parliament to guide the direction we as a country take on leaving. It ensures that all relevant issues are debated. Surely that can only be a good thing. We all want a balanced withdrawal that safeguards the British people

MPs are our representatives not the other way round, the debate has already happened prior to the referendum. It was talked about incessantly. :shrug:

Where was it stated that a vote in parliament would be needed? Do you have links I don't recall that at all.

[jaxie]

Yeah, we won't be getting that... not for a minute did I think we would.

A House of Commons debate on a petition calling for a second EU referendum will take place on Monday, 5 September. :shrug:

“The debate will allow MPs to put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents. At the end of the debate, a Government Minister will respond to the points raised.”

Quoted above was reported in July.

[bots]

MPs are our representatives not the other way round, the debate has already happened prior to the referendum. It was talked about incessantly. :shrug:

Where was it stated that a vote in parliament would be needed? Do you have links I don't recall that at all.

Referendums are advisory only, and to protect against any undemocratic processes happening down stream of this vote, it has to be ratified by a bill in parliament. Those that say they can bypass that are on very shady ground. This is one event that needs to follow all due process, or it will forever haunt us.

It was all discussed before the vote, on TV several times, on the BBC website, national newspapers etc. Don't get me wrong, if parliament went against the referendum result there would be catastrophic fall out, but still, the proper democratic process should be followed

[kirklancaster]

Not seeing how you think that is more democratic than a vote by everyone in the country. Before the referendum it wasn't mentioned that it needed a parliamentary vote to happen.

What is profoundly undemocratic is to keep trying to have votes on it until you get the answer you want.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: There is NO FECKING CHANCE AT ALL of overturning the Referendum result - but, if it happened THEN YOU WOULD SEE WHAT A PROTEST REALLY IS.

And I would be in the VANGUARD.

[Kizzy]

Let's not forget that this petition was set up by a brexit supporter :hee:

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/07/12/15/eu-petition.jpg

It led to the vote on monday.

[jaxie]

Let's not forget that this petition was set up by a brexit supporter :hee:

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/07/12/15/eu-petition.jpg

It led to the vote on monday.

Or that most of the signatures were faked. The point is you said there wouldn't be any debates, there are.

[Kizzy]

Or that most of the signatures were faked. The point is you said there wouldn't be any debates, there are.

this isn't a bebate on brexit it's to decide whether or not to hold another referendum.... Which of course can't and won't happen.

[jaxie]

this isn't a bebate on brexit it's to decide whether or not to hold another referendum.... Which of course can't and won't happen.

Now you're nitpicking. What else is there to debate?

Well I suppose we could debate why some people want to be part of a corrupt, failing superstate rather than an independent country. But since that is the minority not much point.

[joeysteele]

they can try and bypass parliament if they wish, but it will set a precedent that I am sure no right minded MP would support. It would spell the end of democracy and place us in similar waters to some of our more exotic eastern european neighbours

I agree totally.
A growing number in the Conservative party will not be happy if Parliament is not consulted.

[Kizzy]

Now you're nitpicking. What else is there to debate?

Well I suppose we could debate why some people want to be part of a corrupt, failing superstate rather than an independent country. But since that is the minority not much point.

Nope not nitpicking, that is part of due process in a referendum, democratic process.

If you want to be part of an autocracy then fine, I don't.

[Kizzy]

Still happy?...

Ideas suggested by the PM this weekend to keep Britain afloat in a post-Brexit world include closer ties with China, the summit’s host country.

“This is a golden era for UK-China relations and one of the things I will be doing at the G20 is obviously talking to President Xi about how we can develop the strategic partnership that we have between the UK and China,” she said as she boarded her RAF Voyager plane to the summit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-eu-g20-china-summit-andrew-marr-difficult-times-plain-sailing-a7224306.html

[Mitchell]

So when you lose at snakes and ladders do you March through your house 3 months later? :joker:



Get real:hee:

There's a difference between snakes and ladders and a life changing decision.

[jaxie]

Still happy?...

Ideas suggested by the PM this weekend to keep Britain afloat in a post-Brexit world include closer ties with China, the summit’s host country.

“This is a golden era for UK-China relations and one of the things I will be doing at the G20 is obviously talking to President Xi about how we can develop the strategic partnership that we have between the UK and China,” she said as she boarded her RAF Voyager plane to the summit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-eu-g20-china-summit-andrew-marr-difficult-times-plain-sailing-a7224306.html

And the EU is run by Germany who have a terrifying history and have brought the world to war twice. Ironically to gain the purchase over Europe they now have with the EU. You can't quibble about China if you want to cuddle up to Germany. :shrug:

[Ammi]

...this is not a football match or any such similar...there are no winning or losing sides...if we lose, then we all lose and if there are any 'wins' then we all win/no matter which way we voted...and there are no sour grapes either because if the grapes turn sour then they turn sour for all of us and all of our children...this referendum hasn't produced a result/a voice of a country, all it's produced is a divide of a country and how can a divide ever take us into something better.../divided we fall...

[joeysteele]

...this is not a football match or any such similar...there are no winning or losing sides...if we lose, then we all lose and if there are any 'wins' then we all win/no matter which way we voted...and there are no sour grapes either because if the grapes turn sour then they turn sour for all of us and all of our children...this referendum hasn't produced a result/a voice of a country, all it's produced is a divide of a country and how can a divide ever take us into something better.../divided we fall...



That is absolutely spot on.

The only thing I will add to this debate is that marches and protests are in fact a democratic right in a democratic Nation and it is odd how they are dismissed and stated as wrong because they are against what others think and get.

Any march or protest from legitimate citizens and voters should be newsworthy, no matter what it is about.

For sure I dare bet all I had, that if this had been a 3.8% majority vote to 'remain', there would have been protests and marches for a 2nd referendum from the 'leave' side, who have actually been moaning now for over 20 years at least.

I have had abuse off here for voting remain,that is fine, however if anyone gets really nasty I will take it to the Police.
To ignore this very narrow result indeed and 2 Nations of the UK voting to remain as well as 2 voting to leave,then at the same time to ignore the really bad divisions this referendum has created across the Nation, would be very unwise to say the very least.

All opinion should be newsworthy and when people feel strongly enough to march in the streets too, that should be reported.
Had there been any trouble or smashing of windows, you can bet your life there would have been reporting of it then, and then we'd get the opinionated hardliners jumping in saying they were 'all' thugs.

Funny how some only see democratic rights for people, when it is on issues they agree with.
I would have for sure expected to see marches calling for a 2nd referendum had this been 3.8% the other way,indeed Nigel Farage himself stated there would be a great call for another referendum in that event.
I maybe wouldn't have agreed with the idea but would have certainly defended their right to do the march and also that it should be considered a news item too.

The media is there to report what goes on in the Country and World,it should not be selective as to events and the odd couple of minutes on the news is hardly time consuming.
Especially when you look at some items included which are called news, which are far from being so.

[jaxie]

[/B]


That is absolutely spot on.

The only thing I will add to this debate is that marches and protests are in fact a democratic right in a democratic Nation and it is odd how they are dismissed and stated as wrong because they are against what others think and get.

Any march or protest from legitimate citizens and voters should be newsworthy, no matter what it is about.

For sure I dare bet all I had, that if this had been a 3.8% majority vote to 'remain', there would have been protests and marches for a 2nd referendum from the 'leave' side, who have actually been moaning now for over 20 years at least.

I have had abuse off here for voting remain,that is fine, however if anyone gets really nasty I will take it to the Police.
To ignore this very narrow result indeed and 2 Nations of the UK voting to remain as well as 2 voting to leave,then at the same time to ignore the really bad divisions this referendum has created across the Nation, would be very unwise to say the very least.

All opinion should be newsworthy and when people feel strongly enough to march in the streets too, that should be reported.
Had there been any trouble or smashing of windows, you can bet your life there would have been reporting of it then, and then we'd get the opinionated hardliners jumping in saying they were 'all' thugs.

Funny how some only see democratic rights for people, when it is on issues they agree with.
I would have for sure expected to see marches calling for a 2nd referendum had this been 3.8% the other way,indeed Nigel Farage himself stated there would be a great call for another referendum in that event.
I maybe wouldn't have agreed with the idea but would have certainly defended their right to do the march and also that it should be considered a news item too.

The media is there to report what goes on in the Country and World,it should be selective as to events and the odd couple of minutes on the news is hardly time consuming.
Especially when you look at some items included which are called news, which are far from being so.

But no one has said anything about people not being allowed to protest and it was covered quite extensively by the media. :shrug:

[jaxie]

...this is not a football match or any such similar...there are no winning or losing sides...if we lose, then we all lose and if there are any 'wins' then we all win/no matter which way we voted...and there are no sour grapes either because if the grapes turn sour then they turn sour for all of us and all of our children...this referendum hasn't produced a result/a voice of a country, all it's produced is a divide of a country and how can a divide ever take us into something better.../divided we fall...

There has always been a divide over the EU which is why it took so long to get a referendum. The establishment feared the outcome.

[bots]

i don't think many, if any are disputing the outcome of the referendum, they just want due process followed ... thats my feelings on it anyway. We are going to be out of the EU, now lets get the deal that best suits all in our country :shrug:

[joeysteele]

But no one has said anything about people not being allowed to protest and it was covered quite extensively by the media. :shrug:

Not really, it was very patchy as to any references to it originally.

It has been moreso much later but this thread is actually about protests being newsworthy and how the media conveniently avoids certain issues as to the news.
Even comments on here are saying protest marches are regular and if all were on the news, there would be room for little else.
I disagree, we have 24 hour news channels and that should mean all events are well covered and addressed, whatever they are about.

You can bet your life, there would not only be solid reporting of any protests had this been the other way but likely interviews and debates on the issue too.
I'd like to see the balance honoured whichever way it had gone.

The right to try to influence govt. and air any grievances people have as to how things are going or have gone, is just that a right.
Even if no one, as in this govt, and indeed the Labour govt in 1978/9 does in refusing to use their ears to listen.

Anyhow, I have not put any of my points on this on this thread until now, so when I acknowledged Ammi's point, I then chose to add my first contribution to this thread's topic then.
Which as a member on here is actually my right too.

[jaxie]

Not really, it was very patchy as to any references to it originally.

It has been moreso much later but this thread is actually about protests being newsworthy and how the media conveniently avoids certain issues as to the news.
Even comments on here are saying protest marches are regular and if all were on the news, there would be room for little else.
I disagree, we have 24 hour news channels and that should mean all events are well covered and addressed, whatever they are about.

You can bet your life, there would not only be solid reporting of any protests had this been the other way but likely interviews and debates on the issue too.
I'd like to see the balance honoured whichever way it had gone.

The right to try to influence govt. and air any grievances people have as to how things are going or have gone, is just that a right.
Even if no one, as in this govt, and indeed the Labour govt in 1978/9 does in refusing to use their ears to listen.

Anyhow, I have not put any of my points on this on this thread until now, so when I acknowledged Ammi's point, I then chose to add my first contribution to this thread's topic then.
Which as a member on here is actually my right too.

Again I have to say that no one has said you shouldn't post on the thread. :shrug: I'm not sure where you got that impression from.

I think that people who feel upset that we didn't remain are perhaps conspiracy theorising a bit. The thread dramatically states media blackout but it wasn't. I feel like there are some elements of looking to be hard done by. I don't mean anyone in particular when I say that but there is a flavour of it whenever Brexit comes up. I'm pretty sure the coverage would have been the same regardless of which perspective people were coming from and actually was because there also a counter demonstration by leavers at same time and that didn't get any more major coverage either.

I think people need to stop looking for rejection where it isn't as that doesn't help anyone but don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

[_Tom_]

Unlike the protestors who want to dismiss a democratic vote, no-one is saying they cannot "march for Europe" - they can do as they like but that doesn't stop us from laughing at them.

[jaxie]

i don't think many, if any are disputing the outcome of the referendum, they just want due process followed ... thats my feelings on it anyway. We are going to be out of the EU, now lets get the deal that best suits all in our country :shrug:

Isn't due process being followed according to the law? I think there would be some pretty fast legal challenges if it were not.

Plus there has been a month off for Summer so not much happening in public during that so a bit unfair to say that things have or not been done during that. Let's at least wait until things start going before the condemnation.

As to leaving tbh I do wonder if we should be striking a deal at all. The EU seems to want to make an example of us so I'd be inclined to part ways, make them pay their tariffs and pursue my own free trade club with anyone I want to. They don't have the exclusivity on free trade deals. There are many countries who manage just fine without the free market access.

[the truth]

Not really, it was very patchy as to any references to it originally.

It has been moreso much later but this thread is actually about protests being newsworthy and how the media conveniently avoids certain issues as to the news.
Even comments on here are saying protest marches are regular and if all were on the news, there would be room for little else.
I disagree, we have 24 hour news channels and that should mean all events are well covered and addressed, whatever they are about.

You can bet your life, there would not only be solid reporting of any protests had this been the other way but likely interviews and debates on the issue too.
I'd like to see the balance honoured whichever way it had gone.

The right to try to influence govt. and air any grievances people have as to how things are going or have gone, is just that a right.
Even if no one, as in this govt, and indeed the Labour govt in 1978/9 does in refusing to use their ears to listen.

Anyhow, I have not put any of my points on this on this thread until now, so when I acknowledged Ammi's point, I then chose to add my first contribution to this thread's topic then.
Which as a member on here is actually my right too.


wheres the marches for the 25,000 people who die in biritsh hospitals every year from undiagnosed blood clots they pick up in hospitals?

these issues arent sexy enough for attention seekers

[joeysteele]

wheres the marches for the 25,000 people who die in biritsh hospitals every year from undiagnosed blood clots they pick up in hospitals?

these issues arent sexy enough for attention seekers

If you feel strongly enough and have the time, maybe you, with your passion for this, should be someone who could start one for that.
It would be a valid cause to stand against and maybe help to ensure more NHS efficiency, if anyone listened from the NHS and the govt that is.

I would plan a march for something I felt really strongly about for sure, and have been on a few in the past too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

and not to mention the disruption to business and traffic that these mindless idiots cause

[Kizzy]

And the EU is run by Germany who have a terrifying history and have brought the world to war twice. Ironically to gain the purchase over Europe they now have with the EU. You can't quibble about China if you want to cuddle up to Germany. :shrug:

Let's talk historical human rights offences... let's also talk about modern day human rights offences and see which country has progressed on those.

[Kizzy]

But no one has said anything about people not being allowed to protest and it was covered quite extensively by the media. :shrug:

It was not covered extensively by the media on the day nor was it a 'hit' on google on the day.

[Kizzy]

Again I have to say that no one has said you shouldn't post on the thread. :shrug: I'm not sure where you got that impression from.

I think that people who feel upset that we didn't remain are perhaps conspiracy theorising a bit. The thread dramatically states media blackout but it wasn't. I feel like there are some elements of looking to be hard done by. I don't mean anyone in particular when I say that but there is a flavour of it whenever Brexit comes up. I'm pretty sure the coverage would have been the same regardless of which perspective people were coming from and actually was because there also a counter demonstration by leavers at same time and that didn't get any more major coverage either.

I think people need to stop looking for rejection where it isn't as that doesn't help anyone but don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

I started the thread and media blackout was the reason so it's clear you mean me here, the coverage would not have been the same for any other protest... when tens of thousands gather there is usually a media presence but there was very little on the day untill approx 6pm.

You may think that those protesting are wanting to halt brexit or have a new referendum and yes some might, however as stated earlier the main issue is the diversion from due process which is anti democratic and an example of the govt behaving autonomously, something that should have people out in the streets demonstrating about. Instead it is glossed over, effectively buried amid other news and distractions.

[MTVN]

I'd say it was given fair coverage. I was driving home from work Saturday evening and it was featured on Radio 2's 6 o clock news and thats a 1 minute slot which only features 4 or 5 headlines. Its pretty common that protests are only given prominent coverage later on when its more clear how many were involved, what the circumstances were etc.

[jaxie]

Let's talk historical human rights offences... let's also talk about modern day human rights offences and see which country has progressed on those.

History doesn't matter enough for you? All the people who died at the death camps not relevant enough?

[Kizzy]

History doesn't matter enough for you? All the people who died at the death camps not relevant enough?

Is that British death camps?... If you want to do history let's do history.

[Kizzy]

I'd say it was given fair coverage. I was driving home from work Saturday evening and it was featured on Radio 2's 6 o clock news and thats a 1 minute slot which only features 4 or 5 headlines. Its pretty common that protests are only given prominent coverage later on when its more clear how many were involved, what the circumstances were etc.

It was clear how many were involved at 12pm, 2pm and 4pm no coverage then :/

[jaxie]

It was not covered extensively by the media on the day nor was it a 'hit' on google on the day.

I hardly think the gov or press have much influence over Google hits. :shrug: it was covered on the radio, BBC, ITV, Sky, that's fairly extensive coverage, what more are you expecting, scenes projected onto every street in the country?

[Kizzy]

I hardly think the gov or press have much influence over Google hits. :shrug: it was covered on the radio, BBC, ITV, Sky, that's fairly extensive coverage, what more are you expecting, scenes projected onto every street in the country?

No need to get churlish, at the time I was attempting to access information there was very little, until early evening.

[jaxie]

I'd say it was given fair coverage. I was driving home from work Saturday evening and it was featured on Radio 2's 6 o clock news and thats a 1 minute slot which only features 4 or 5 headlines. Its pretty common that protests are only given prominent coverage later on when its more clear how many were involved, what the circumstances were etc.

So would I but I think some just want to complain about 'the establishment' without any real substance on his particular subject. :shrug:

[jaxie]

Is that British death camps?... If you want to do history let's do history.

I am boggled by the things some will shrug off lightly or try to deflect.

[jaxie]

No need to get churlish, at the time I was attempting to access information there was very little, until early evening.

:nono: No need to get personal and start name calling.

[Kizzy]

:nono: No need to get personal and start name calling.

I'll stop the discussion there as you're now making accusations.

[Kizzy]

I am boggled by the things some will shrug off lightly or try to deflect.

Agreed, however I am able to understand that Germany is not the only country to have had a period for which they are ashamed.

[jaxie]

Agreed, however I am able to understand that Germany is not the only country to have had a period for which they are ashamed.

Most countries have a period of which they should be ashamed, though you did begin by complaining about doing business with China.

If we didn't do business with anyone who had questionable practices now or in the past, we wouldn't do business with anyone. That doesn't make it right but that's the problem with tossing a stone or two.

[jaxie]

I'll stop the discussion there as you're now making accusations.

No I was admonishing you for calling me churlish. That is against the forum rules as it's personal.

Thanks for the debate, it was fun.

[Kizzy]

Most countries have a period of which they should be ashamed, though you did begin by complaining about doing business with China.

If we didn't do business with anyone who had questionable practices now or in the past, we wouldn't do business with anyone. That doesn't make it right but that's the problem with tossing a stone or two.

I am more interested in the present than the past however your issues with Germany are from almost 100yrs ago, therefore not quite as relevant as the human rights violations of today. That's the difference.

[Kizzy]

No I was admonishing you for calling me churlish. That is against the forum rules as it's personal.

Thanks for the debate, it was fun.

Then don't, I found the tone of your post rude, there is nothing in the rules that prohibits me informing you of that.

[jaxie]

Then don't, I found the tone of your post rude, there is nothing in the rules that prohibits me informing you of that.

You can say I think that is rude. You can't say you are this or that. Them's the rules. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

You can say I think that is rude. You can't say you are this or that. Them's the rules. :shrug:

I basically did... I said 'no need to get churlish' I didn't say you are churlish.

I know the rules.