Pupils turned away from school because their black shoes were "not plain enough"

[Headie]

Some examples of the shoes turned away:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/07/12/37FC860700000578-3777409-Mother_Allison_Hopper_was_told_her_daughter_Kim_s_ shoes_were_not-a-10_1473246871429.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/07/11/38022BA000000578-3777409-image-m-12_1473245646732.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/07/11/38022B0500000578-3777409-image-a-13_1473245654809.jpg

Full article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3777409/School-gates-stand-father-one-fifty-pupils-sent-home-weren-t-wearing-right-school-uniform-vows-daughter-dress-today.html

I think this is ridiculous if you ask me :laugh:

[Kyle]

Nowt wrong with any of those shoes pictured in my opinion. Seems a bit uppity if that's a word.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its not ridiculous its about rules and following them. The headmaster is there to improve a failing school and it starts with following rules that are entrenched in common sense


well done him

welcome to the real world pupils

[armand.kay]

This is all getting out of hand ffs. What is actually the purpos of all this?? What on earth does it add to a child's education?? Those shoes look perfectly line to me smart, sharp and clean looking shoes what the hell is their problem? I'm all for children having to dress smart and wear proper uniform but this to me is just pointless.

[Will.]

They look perfectly fine for school, just get on teaching them and improving grades.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the rule says black leather shoes

not suede. Its not rocket science

[Crimson Dynamo]

there is a REASON for uniform. google it

[Withano]

I wonder if theres anything anyone could ever post on tibb and there wouldnt be a person with an opposing belief. Being denied an education because you bought black suede instead of black leather is obviously ridiculous, what a weird argument to fight.

[Will.]

the rule says black leather shoes

not suede. Its not rocket science

There are better things to worry about than the bloody material of a school shoe.

[armand.kay]

The head teacher looks bloody scruffy to me his ill fitting suit and choice of boots rather than a smart shoe is more offensive to me than a girl choosing not to wear leather shoes. Maybe he should lead by example and get his **** together and not come in looking like a junkie serving his court date.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There are better things to worry about than the bloody material of a school shoe.

Incorrect. Its crucial to the education of every child.

------------------------------------------------------

"Perhaps most importantly, a uniform means students don't have to worry about peer pressure when it comes to their clothes. When everyone is dressed the same, worrying about what you look like isn't so important. There is no competition about being dressed in the latest trend, which would put a great deal of financial pressure on students and parents. Potential bullies have one less target for their insults; it's hard to make fun of what someone is wearing when you're dressed exactly the same.


In America, where a majority of schools do not have a uniform, roughly 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. This might not be directly linked to what they're wearing, but having a uniform can be a safety net for many students who might otherwise suffer from bullying. A strict uniform gives the impression that rules are strict too, perhaps helping maintain a sense of order at school.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/mortarboard/2013/oct/03/why-wear-school-uniform

[bots]

LT is of course correct. All we are seeing is people moaning and trying to play the system so that they don't get educated. Blame someone else .. its not my fault is the common mantra .. just get on with it and do what you are supposed to do .. learn

[Kizzy]

INGSOC

[Cal.]

He's hampering learning by sending them home from school. That's more severe than wearing some shoes that aren't allowed on a basis of opinion.

[jaxie]

I think this is ridiculous. Uniforms are also generally ridiculous and don't aid learning in any way.

[Tom4784]

It's stupid af and there's no defending it, it's pedantic bull**** that's interfering with these kids' education for no good reason and the headteacher should be disciplined for disrupting these kids' education.

The two main reasons that always pop up to support these stupid decisions are:

1. Kids will get bullied and the uniform is somehow meant to prevent that. Bull****. Bullies will always find a reason to bully someone, uniform or not. It does nothing to prevent bullying and it doesn't aid the education process in any way, in fact, depending on the uniform and the weather it can actually decrease concentration.

2. The idea that uniforms somehow prep kids for working life, news-****ing-flash, if a workplace dictates that black shoes must be worn then chances are they won't give a **** about what they look like as long as they are black shoes.

The headteacher is a power mad bureaucrat who has just shown that he shouldn't actually have any authority because he has abused it in this situation. Education comes first and this headtwat's forgotten that.

[joeysteele]

It's stupid af and there's no defending it, it's pedantic bull**** that's interfering with these kids' education for no good reason and the headteacher should be disciplined for disrupting these kids' education.

The two main reasons that always pop up to support these stupid decisions are:

1. Kids will get bullied and the uniform is somehow meant to prevent that. Bull****. Bullies will always find a reason to bully someone, uniform or not. It does nothing to prevent bullying and it doesn't aid the education process in any way, in fact, depending on the uniform and the weather it can actually decrease concentration.

2. The idea that uniforms somehow prep kids for working life, news-****ing-flash, if a workplace dictates that black shoes must be worn then chances are they won't give a **** about what they look like as long as they are black shoes.

The headteacher is a power mad bureaucrat who has just shown that he shouldn't actually have any authority because he has abused it in this situation. Education comes first and this headtwat's forgotten that.

This, says it all for me.

[Saph]

ugh I used to hate teachers who always nagged about uniform.. like school was **** enough as it was at least lemme look cute

[Marsh.]

the rule says black leather shoes

not suede. Its not rocket science

Yes, because 4 year olds can afford leather shoes. :oh: Even I bloody can't.

[Marsh.]

LT is of course correct. All we are seeing is people moaning and trying to play the system so that they don't get educated. Blame someone else .. its not my fault is the common mantra .. just get on with it and do what you are supposed to do .. learn

Yes, I'm sure they picked those perfectly acceptable shoes in the OP "to play the system so that they don't get educated".

WHAT BOLLOCKS. :joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Its not ridiculous its about rules and following them. The headmaster is there to improve a failing school and it starts with following rules that are entrenched in common sense


well done him

welcome to the real world pupils

It's ridiculous that it's even a rule in the first place.

When I was at School no other students even paid attention to what shoes people was wearing to "mock them" as that will be the excuse that the Teachers will use for the rule being in place, so why should it bother them?

They're black shoes which is apart of the School rules.

[Mystic Mock]

Incorrect. Its crucial to the education of every child.

------------------------------------------------------

"Perhaps most importantly, a uniform means students don't have to worry about peer pressure when it comes to their clothes. When everyone is dressed the same, worrying about what you look like isn't so important. There is no competition about being dressed in the latest trend, which would put a great deal of financial pressure on students and parents. Potential bullies have one less target for their insults; it's hard to make fun of what someone is wearing when you're dressed exactly the same.


In America, where a majority of schools do not have a uniform, roughly 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. This might not be directly linked to what they're wearing, but having a uniform can be a safety net for many students who might otherwise suffer from bullying. A strict uniform gives the impression that rules are strict too, perhaps helping maintain a sense of order at school.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/mortarboard/2013/oct/03/why-wear-school-uniform

I was bullied at School as was a lot of people, uniform does not make one bit of difference as people will just bully at School for something else thus keeping these kids away from School still.

[user104658]

the rule says black leather shoes

not suede. Its not rocket science

Not wanting to nitpick here LT but... suede is a type of leather.

[armand.kay]

ugh I used to hate teachers who always nagged about uniform.. like school was **** enough as it was at least lemme look cute

the hags just jealous they couldn't pull off the exposed midriff with min skirt combo like you could?

[MB.]

LT getting all #BlackShoesMatter on us I see

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not wanting to nitpick here LT but... suede is a type of leather.

It's not leather.

Following rules is not hard. Look at your car insurance. Or council tax.

I'd imagine you follow those to the T

[Marsh.]

It's not leather.

Following rules is not hard. Look at your car insurance. Or council tax.

I'd imagine you follow those to the T

If you think I'm driving around in a leather car you can FUQ OFF SIR.

[armand.kay]

bye I never knew suede was made from animal skin.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hi iv come to play for man u but I have a Bournemouth top. Its red and white and black. Wait, what? I can't play?

Oh iv turned up at school with £450 suede designer shoes and I can't wear them. But the peasants get in with primarkleather? Its a fck joke. Why should my mum not superced the headmaster?

[user104658]

It's not leather.

Following rules is not hard. Look at your car insurance. Or council tax.

I'd imagine you follow those to the T

It ****ing literally is leather LT.


suede
sweɪd/
noun
leather with the flesh side rubbed to make a velvety nap.

Not here for LeatherT not even knowing what suede is :hmph:. Get the name changed.

[Marsh.]

Hi iv come to play for man u but I have a Bournemouth top. Its red and white and black. Wait, what? I can't play?

Oh iv turned up at school with £450 suede designer shoes and I can't wear them. But the peasants get in with primarkleather? Its a fck joke. Why should my mum not superced the headmaster?

:umm2:

Yes, the shoes in the OP are clearly £450 designer shoes and not all from the same Back to School shelf at Matalan.

[James]

I remember being at school and feeling left out cause I didn't have some of the top brands for sports gear. That kind of thing would have been 10x worse if it applied to everyday clothes too.

[Shaun]

I presume you moved on with your life however.

Kinda thought that was what the whole point of tackling bullying was meant to be.

[arista]

The Dumb Dad
went to the press saying her may take his girl to another School.http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/07/13/3804DA6700000578-3777409-image-a-58_1473252602665.jpg
Pesky Dad on the right

So the Headteacher
should refuse them.

Buy Leather ones
stop going to the Press
you Pesky Dad.

[Kizzy]

I remember being at school and feeling left out cause I didn't have some of the top brands for sports gear. That kind of thing would have been 10x worse if it applied to everyday clothes too.

It's character building to express your individuality ... the fact this is being phased out of existence is heartbreaking.

[Marsh.]

It's character building to express your individuality ... the fact this is being phased out of existence is heartbreaking.

The only thing they're expressing is the amount their parents are stupid enough to spend on their clothing.

[Rob!]

This sort of thing really annoys me - in what possible way does this affect the education of students? So they're not wearing correct uniform - who cares? How does that affect their or their peers ability to learn?

[Maru]

I have to wonder what the edge case is they are trying to avoid by being so explicit about the type of shoes they expect. When we had dress code, they were this picky, but they gave pretty clear examples during the orientation (if you bothered to go) so there was really is no excuse for trying to skirt the rule... same with not having the correct ruler, exact type of paper, exact color folders by the 2nd class meeting... you were humiliated a little bit if you didn't have these things and were called out for not following instruction.

It seems silly, but the schools I went to were very large and we had a local gang population so they were trying to treat kids to better conform. It can be a reasonable, but it depends on the situation and the interpretation. It may not seem to apply to the shoes in the picture, but you would be surprised the stupid things some of these kids will fight over/steal from each each to get higher up the food chain. I for one hated my dress code as I was looking forward to dressing up in MS/HS. Uniform shopping was soul crushing as it wasn't common at that time. It made sense with all the physical fights and such... I guess it's to keep it fair, not just discriminating kids with "fancier" tastes so that every kid will feel really that they blend in. I still got threatened regularly and told to come to the bus stop after school, but it was mostly due to myself being one of a 2-3 white people in that school, my petite size, my very long blonde hair and the fact I was a total nerd... unless everyone wore body paint and shoes to adjust for height, I was screwed :laugh:

[arista]

Maru
the Stupid Dad
got the press , then said he may
pull his Girl out
out that school and take her to another.

So he is working against the School
The Enemy - so to speak.

He went live on GMBHD itv
so we all got to see how stupid he was.

If only the Mother was there
instead

[Ammi]

...but then, the new Head is working against the parents as well, Arista so stupid as stupid as stupid, really...the main thing doesn't seem to be about the shoes themselves but more about the way in which it was done...which really wasn't going to do anything else other than alienate parents and that 'stupid' lies with the Head...the stupid dad..:laugh:..was actually in agreement that uniform should be enforced but the guidance policy of the uniform/shoes specifically isn't very clear because the examples it gives of 'acceptable' are also a bit decorative..so which 'decorative' is acceptable and which 'decorative' isn't acceptable..?.../that's not really clear and instead of making it clear/defining it more clearly..many children were just sent home, rather than giving time to rectify etc...also with his daughter, the reason for her being sent home the previous day was a blazer issue..?...and her shoes weren't mentioned even though they were the same shoes that the Head had issue with the following day...so yeah, maybe 'stupid' and dumb to take your child out of the school but stupid and dumb to exclude a child when the policy has been so left open to interpretation of 'plain'...


...anyways, he's a Christian Head because the DM says so and very involved in the church etc etc...so he could inspire in his Christian ways and allow some reasonable leeway on footwear while he reviews the policy and clarifies... and allow all of the shoes to be worn for this term..(so long as they're appropriate in terms of safety etc, which they seem to be..)... and ask all of those children (and parents..)...to organise a shoebox/Operation Christmas Child and turn it into something positive in line with his Christian values, which I assume he wants for his school and pupils as well..../a trade off..you can have your shoes this term/but we want your filled shoeboxes and a little thought for those children who only wish they had shoes to think about...

[James]

I presume you moved on with your life however.

Kinda thought that was what the whole point of tackling bullying was meant to be.

I wouldn't necessarily call it bullying - it's more like a hierarchy.

It's character building to express your individuality ... the fact this is being phased out of existence is heartbreaking.

As I remember it, it wasn't about what looked good, but rather having the best brands - and the more expensive the better. All that seems a bit strange to me now, but I think attitudes change when you have your own money to spend.

[Cherie]

How many kids attend this school? It looks like a small minority were unable to follow the uniform policy so it must be fairly clear if the majority got it right. There are always parents who think rules don't apply to their little dears, they are the ones who hog the teacher for an hour at parents evening when they are allocated 15 mins and don't care that they are inconveniencing others or make a song and dance at the school gates like this Dad because he feels he doesn't have to comply thereby role modelling to his daughter that she doesn't need to comply either, follow the rules, you can express your individuality in many ways both in and outside school and wearing the same clothes as everyone else doesn't take away your personality which is the biggest part of what makes you an individual. Team Head :D:

[Jamie89]

I generally agree with there being uniform in schools (I mean I don't feel particularly strongly about it either way but I can see the benefits of it, and the 'rules are rules' argument) but this is just ridiculous. They're shoes :facepalm:
I really think that sometimes people become so institutionalised in jobs like his, and so robotic in terms of thought that they lose the ability to apply common sense and judgement (which is also an important message to be teaching kids to prepare them for adulthood)...

...but then, the new Head is working against the parents as well, Arista so stupid as stupid as stupid, really...the main thing doesn't seem to be about the shoes themselves but more about the way in which it was done...which really wasn't going to do anything else other than alienate parents and that 'stupid' lies with the Head...the stupid dad..:laugh:..was actually in agreement that uniform should be enforced but the guidance policy of the uniform/shoes specifically isn't very clear because the examples it gives of 'acceptable' are also a bit decorative..so which 'decorative' is acceptable and which 'decorative' isn't acceptable..?.../that's not really clear and instead of making it clear/defining it more clearly..many children were just sent home, rather than giving time to rectify etc...also with his daughter, the reason for her being sent home the previous day was a blazer issue..?...and her shoes weren't mentioned even though they were the same shoes that the Head had issue with the following day...so yeah, maybe 'stupid' and dumb to take your child out of the school but stupid and dumb to exclude a child when the policy has been so left open to interpretation of 'plain'...


...anyways, he's a Christian Head because the DM says so and very involved in the church etc etc...so he could inspire in his Christian ways and allow some reasonable leeway on footwear while he reviews the policy and clarifies... and allow all of the shoes to be worn for this term..(so long as they're appropriate in terms of safety etc, which they seem to be..)... and ask all of those children (and parents..)...to organise a shoebox/Operation Christmas Child and turn it into something positive in line with his Christian values, which I assume he wants for his school and pupils as well..../a trade off..you can have your shoes this term/but we want your filled shoeboxes and a little thought for those children who only wish they had shoes to think about...

...and this sums it up perfectly for me.

[Cherie]

I don't know though what if they don't turn up with the shoe boxes and then you have allowed the footwear and set the precedent :laugh: It's a failing school, parents need to get behind Head otherwise it will always be a failing school, he can't do it on his own

[Crimson Dynamo]

:umm2:

Yes, the shoes in the OP are clearly £450 designer shoes and not all from the same Back to School shelf at Matalan.

The example is in principle. The school make rules, the parents when they send their children agree to adhere to the rules. Reading an A4 piece of paper about uniform is not hard to do.

The school in question was a failing school, the headmaster has a track record of improving schools like this.

and yet the stupid (few) parents think they somehow know better

:facepalm:

[Livia]

If these people put as much time and effort into following the rules there wouldn't be any kind of problem. If they don't like the school rules maybe they should try to get their little angels into a school where they can "express themselves".

[Josy]

Rules are rules and are in place for a reason.

[arista]

Ammi in this trade said:
"the new Head is working against the parents as well,"

Bollocks

All the kids with the Parents that
went by his printed Letter
are in the school.


Its was Just the bad parents
not bothering to much.



I back the New Head 100%
this has gone Worldwide
giving England a Top name in Education.

[Kizzy]

The only thing they're expressing is the amount their parents are stupid enough to spend on their clothing.

Oh don't get me wrong I agree with the 'no logo' aspect however it's the whole aspect pf uniformity that I see as stifling individuality.

[user104658]

allow some reasonable leeway on footwear while he reviews the policy and clarifies... and allow all of the shoes to be worn for this term..(so long as they're appropriate in terms of safety etc, which they seem to be..).

As always Ammi is most wise: this is the reasonable and obvious middle ground. Point out that some of the footwear is not what the school would ideally like, and make the uniform policy more specific and more widely publicised for next term / next year... then leave it at that.

Specifically, if the uniform policy states "black leather shoes" then none of the shoes actually violate that. Maybe the headteacher, like LT, is confused and believes that suede isn't leather but as the rest of us right-thinking people know... suede is of course leather, as is patent leather (obviously). They need to rewrite the uniform policy to state black PLAIN leather, if that's what they want people to wear.

[Niamh.]

Seems very OTT tbh

[Kizzy]

If these people put as much time and effort into following the rules there wouldn't be any kind of problem. If they don't like the school rules maybe they should try to get their little angels into a school where they can "express themselves".

If more schools put the effort into actually educating and having a reputation for that rater than enforcing certain 'rules' perhaps, which schools are allowed to express themselves?.. Apart from faith schools that don't have to follow any curriculum, but by god the dress code is bang on!

[bots]

Seems very OTT tbh

not if its a recognised method of identifying troublemakers and rectifying the problem. If parents truly want their kids education improved, they would applaud and support the school in its attempts to do so

[Niamh.]

not if its a recognised method of identifying troublemakers and rectifying the problem. If parents truly want their kids education improved, they would applaud and support the school in its attempts to do so

Suede shoes = potential serial killer? :fan:

[bots]

Suede shoes = potential serial killer? :fan:

in a school with problems, attitudes of parents and pupils are very important. They are there to learn, not compare shoes. The school is basically setting its stall out in creating a controlled educational environment. If people want to question that, they should do so after giving the school the opportunity to resolve the educational deficiencies. Its identifying those that want to be obstructive, and that can only be good.

[Kizzy]

If schools insist on regulation then perhaps they should provide regulation appropriate attire?
It would remove this trial and error approach.

[Niamh.]

in a school with problems, attitudes of parents and pupils are very important. They are there to learn, not compare shoes. The school is basically setting its stall out in creating a controlled educational environment. If people want to question that, they should do so after giving the school the opportunity to resolve the educational deficiencies. Its identifying those that want to be obstructive, and that can only be good.

mmm, pretty much all schools here have uniforms which is fine, it makes life easier for both me and my kids tbh but at the end of the day kids aren't robots either, they should be allowed some from of expression imo be that with their hair or with shoes (as long as it doesn't cause a health and safety issue)

[Vicky.]

Jesus christ..I could understand it if they were black but covered in multicoloured rhinestones or something, but those are just *****g black shoes.

[bots]

mmm, pretty much all schools here have uniforms which is fine, it makes life easier for both me and my kids tbh but at the end of the day kids aren't robots either, they should be allowed some from of expression imo be that with their hair or with shoes (as long as it doesn't cause a health and safety issue)

i don't disagree, but that type of environment is to be encouraged, only after you have repaired what is a flawed school. The first thing to put in place is educational discipline, create a non disruptive environment for learning, then make it fluffy for everyone once its on solid ground

[Niamh.]

i don't disagree, but that type of environment is to be encouraged, only after you have repaired what is a flawed school. The first thing to put in place is educational discipline, create a non disruptive environment for learning, then make it fluffy for everyone once its on solid ground

I'm not sure making a stand on something as trivial as this will help calm a disruptive pupil though, surely it would have the opposite effect?

[bots]

I'm not sure making a stand on something as trivial as this will help calm a disruptive pupil though, surely it would have the opposite effect?

it serves 2 purposes. It's the heads way of saying to the education authority .... look ... how can i improve a school as disruptive as this .... it also zooms in on parents likely to be obstructive. They can deal with kids .... parents are more difficult .... and this identifies them on day 1.

[Niamh.]

it serves 2 purposes. It's the heads way of saying to the education authority .... look ... how can i improve a school as disruptive as this .... it also zooms in on parents likely to be obstructive. They can deal with kids .... parents are more difficult .... and this identifies them on day 1.

They could also be causing parents to get their backs up because of sheer stupidity imo. To me those shoes looks perfectly acceptable, if I spent alot of money buying my child a pair of shoes (and they're not cheap) only to be told that the plain black shoes I got aren't plain enough, I'd be pretty annoyed and probably a fair chunk out of pocket. I mean, those shoes pictured don't, to me, scream "rebel without a cause" they look like shoes a parent who was trying to follow the rules would buy :shrug:

[Kizzy]

i don't disagree, but that type of environment is to be encouraged, only after you have repaired what is a flawed school. The first thing to put in place is educational discipline, create a non disruptive environment for learning, then make it fluffy for everyone once its on solid ground

If this was the only issue facing the schools system in the UK then fine...but it isn't.
It's all well and good to focus on 'failing' schools .. like hospitals this is a dupe to introduce .special measures', whilst the academies and free enterprise privatised ventures or faith schools have no such regulation or statutory measures to meet.

You have to ask yourself what is the bigger picture here, why is one under performing school thrust into the media spotlight?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its about rules and showing who is in charge. Try turning up for work 10 mins late all week and try and say 'its only 10 minutes ffs'

The school has rules like life has rules. Follow them or find a new school. Dead simple

[Niamh.]

Its about rules and showing who is in charge. Try turning up for work 10 mins late all week and try and say 'its only 10 minutes ffs'

The school has rules like life has rules. Follow them or find a new school. Dead simple

Me everyday tbh :hee:

[Livia]

Me everyday tbh :hee:

LOL... you bad.

[Vicky.]

They could also be causing parents to get their backs up because of sheer stupidity imo. To me those shoes looks perfectly acceptable, if I spent alot of money buying my child a pair of shoes (and they're not cheap) only to be told that the plain black shoes I got aren't plain enough, I'd be pretty annoyed and probably a fair chunk out of pocket. I mean, those shoes pictured don't, to me, scream "rebel without a cause" they look like shoes a parent who was trying to follow the rules would buy :shrug:

Indeed. Also black leather shoes tend to be a lot more expensive than other black shoes..I can imagine lower income people struggling, especially when the restg of the uniform is paid for too

Its about rules and showing who is in charge. Try turning up for work 10 mins late all week and try and say 'its only 10 minutes ffs'

The school has rules like life has rules. Follow them or find a new school. Dead simple

Oddly enough, I have never got into trouble for this :laugh: Bosses just roll their eyes about it and make a sarcastic comment :joker:

[Tom4784]

The headtwat is preventing kids from learning in order to follow what is a pointless rule. There's no defending it and there's nothing sadder than depriving kids of a day's schooling to enforce a pedantic rule that serves no purpose.

Rules that don't serve a purpose should not be rules in the first place.

You could probably find those shoes in the pictures in the bargain bin of a George store so it's not about status since none of those shoes are designer in any way. The headtwat just wanted to flex his muscles and it cost a bunch of kids a day of education for no real reason.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Me everyday tbh :hee:
and your boss is..........

[Vicky.]

The headtwat is preventing kids from learning in order to follow what is a pointless rule. There's no defending and there's nothing sadder than depriving kids of a day's schooling to enforce a pedantic rule that serves no purpose.

Rules that don't serve a purpose should not be rules in the first place.

You could probably find those shoes in the pictures in the bargain bin of a George store so it's not about status since none of those shoes are designer in any way. The headtwat just wanted to flex his muscles and it cost a bunch of kids a day of education for no real reason.

The shiny-ish ones, I am sure I saw them in shoezone a few weeks back for 4 quid, when I was looking for school shoes for my kids

[Niamh.]

Indeed. Also black leather shoes tend to be a lot more expensive than other black shoes..I can imagine lower income people struggling, especially when the restg of the uniform is paid for too



Oddly enough, I have never got into trouble for this :laugh: Bosses just roll their eyes about it and make a sarcastic comment :joker:

exactly, infact I think it would have the complete opposite effect of what stamping down their authority is trying to achieve, widen the divide between lower income families and making the us and them feeling even bigger.

[Niamh.]

and your boss is..........

No one tells me what to do :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

No one tells me what to do :hee:

Poor Gav


:worry:

[Mystic Mock]

It's character building to express your individuality ... the fact this is being phased out of existence is heartbreaking.

Exactly.

And tbh if we just kept letting stupid rules stay in place because "it's the rules" then I dread to think what the world would be like by now.

[Mystic Mock]

mmm, pretty much all schools here have uniforms which is fine, it makes life easier for both me and my kids tbh but at the end of the day kids aren't robots either, they should be allowed some from of expression imo be that with their hair or with shoes (as long as it doesn't cause a health and safety issue)

The problem with Schools is that they take away any of your own expression away from you and try and mold you into what they like (kinda like Simon Cowell actually lol) it's a horrible experience as I'm an individual and I do not like being told off for doing nothing wrong.

And this rules are rules argument that a few people on here are using to defend the head (who's in the wrong) the question I want to ask you is that do you agree with the rules? Because said rules being defended do not serve a single purpose other than to be controlling and make students feel less comfortable with the environment which is surely a bad thing?

[Niamh.]

The problem with Schools is that they take away any of your own expression away from you and try and mold you into what they like (kinda like Simon Cowell actually lol) it's a horrible experience as I'm an individual and I do not like being told off for doing nothing wrong.

And this rules are rules argument that a few people on here are using to defend the head (who's in the wrong) the question I want to ask you is that do you agree with the rules? Because said rules being defended do not serve a single purpose other than to be controlling and make students feel less comfortable with the environment which is surely a bad thing?

I think rules on shoes/hair/colour/style are silly yeah

[Vicky.]

I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid.

Certain colours and such, yeah. But dictating exactly which shoes is OTT.

My husbands daughters school has found a way to make sure that overpriced school uniform is bought instead of people getting it cheaper from tesco or whatever. Their 'school colours' are dark green tartan in a specific print. Because of this, it cost just over 200 quid for 2 sets of skirt, top, jumper and trousers. I am quite pissed off with uniform policies at the moment :laugh2: They are allowed any black shoes though..as long as the heel is under 3 inches if they have a heel.

[Mystic Mock]

I think rules on shoes/hair/colour/style are silly yeah

Thanks for your honest answer Niamh, it's truly appreciated and I agree with you.

Imo Teachers should only be getting involved if the child is going out of control at School, or they're falling behind in lessons, that's what a School is for, not to be the fashion police.

[Niamh.]

I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid.

Certain colours and such, yeah. But dictating exactly which shoes is OTT.

My husbands daughters school has found a way to make sure that overpriced school uniform is bought instead of people getting it cheaper from tesco or whatever. Their 'school colours' are dark green tartan in a specific print. Because of this, it cost just over 200 quid for 2 sets of skirt, top, jumper and trousers. I am quite pissed off with uniform policies at the moment :laugh2: They are allowed any black shoes though..as long as the heel is under 3 inches if they have a heel.

crazy, mine have a uniform and tracksuit, just the top of the tracksuit in my daughters school is €60

[Vicky.]

crazy, mine have a uniform and tracksuit, just the top of the tracksuit in my daughters school is €60

We got 3 sets of Skyes for 20 quid. All from tesco as her uniform is grey trousers/skirt and white top. Black shoes. Red jumper. We did pay 20 quid for 2 of the schools jumpers as I think it looks better with the logo on those. But they didn't insist on it or anything so could have got two of those for a tenner or so too. Takes the piss when schools insist you get their own stupidly overpriced stuff..

[Niamh.]

We got 3 sets of Skyes for 20 quid. All from tesco as her uniform is grey trousers/skirt and white top. Black shoes. Red jumper. We did pay 20 quid for 2 of the schools jumpers as I think it looks better with the logo on those. But they didn't insist on it or anything so could have got two of those for a tenner or so too. Takes the piss when schools insist you get their own stupidly overpriced stuff..

It's ridiculous, I understand why schools want uniforms etc but not why they have to be so expensive. School is expensive enough as it is (free education.....)

[Marsh.]

The example is in principle. The school make rules, the parents when they send their children agree to adhere to the rules. Reading an A4 piece of paper about uniform is not hard to do.

The school in question was a failing school, the headmaster has a track record of improving schools like this.

and yet the stupid (few) parents think they somehow know better

:facepalm:

"Black shoes" if they're not more specific than that they can't complain when some have shiny black shoes, some with a heel, some with velcro, some with lace.

Shoes have more variables than a standard colour.

[arista]

" I understand the need for uniform..but whingeing on about what kind of black shoes (unless very OTT black shoes, such as knee high leather boots etc) is stupid."

Vicky that Stupid Dad
went Live on GMBHD itv and newspapers
saying he was thinking of moving his
girl , out of that school.


So he then became the enemy,
thats the end result of this mess

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/07/13/3804DA6700000578-3777409-image-a-58_1473252602665.jpg

The Stupid Dad
on the right

[Vicky.]

Taking the kid out of school for it is a bit overboard, but I completely understand why he was annoyed. I would have been too. 'Stupid Mum' eh? :wink:

[Niamh.]

Taking the kid out of school for it is a bit overboard, but I completely understand why he was annoyed. I would have been too. 'Stupid Mum' eh? :wink:

As would I

[Ammi]

i don't disagree, but that type of environment is to be encouraged, only after you have repaired what is a flawed school. The first thing to put in place is educational discipline, create a non disruptive environment for learning, then make it fluffy for everyone once its on solid ground

it serves 2 purposes. It's the heads way of saying to the education authority .... look ... how can i improve a school as disruptive as this .... it also zooms in on parents likely to be obstructive. They can deal with kids .... parents are more difficult .... and this identifies them on day 1.

..it's not really about 'fluffy' though...that 'solid ground' is difficult to reach if you alienate and he's alienating the very parents/pupils that he so needs to gain the trust of...those 'obstructive' parents are his target really because the less obstructive ones won't be the issue...but target in a positive way and to get on board, not target in a negative way as he's done...it's less also about the shoes themselves for me and more the method...'create a non disruptive environment'...(I believe or it's been reported that the police became involved..)...that's very far from creating a non disruptive environment, it couldn't be further from and he has to take some responsibility there himself because his first 'command' as a new head was to maintain command of a situation that he had initiated...if he couldn't do that then hmmmmm, it's not a good starting point for his new role for me...


...anyways and just on a point that Marsh made as well...the link given in the policy on the school website to what are 'acceptable' shoes are also quite decorative shoes/are not 'plain' at all so it's a very unclear policy and that really is the issue/rather than the parents or the pupils...

[VanessaFeltz.]

Incorrect. Its crucial to the education of every child.

------------------------------------------------------

"Perhaps most importantly, a uniform means students don't have to worry about peer pressure when it comes to their clothes. When everyone is dressed the same, worrying about what you look like isn't so important. There is no competition about being dressed in the latest trend, which would put a great deal of financial pressure on students and parents. Potential bullies have one less target for their insults; it's hard to make fun of what someone is wearing when you're dressed exactly the same.


In America, where a majority of schools do not have a uniform, roughly 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. This might not be directly linked to what they're wearing, but having a uniform can be a safety net for many students who might otherwise suffer from bullying. A strict uniform gives the impression that rules are strict too, perhaps helping maintain a sense of order at school.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/mortarboard/2013/oct/03/why-wear-school-uniform

But being so strict on the uniform also puts pressure on the children and their families and the point was... not to pressure children :idc:

[VanessaFeltz.]

Also may i just add how strict schools are in this messy subject, when i was a children they were OBSESSED with the haircut and stuff it just put dumbass pressure on me like it wasnt even that long. Just make everyone wear uniforms but dont freak out about every single **** let them just enjoy their life when they grow up they will face enough sadness anyways

[joeysteele]

Also may i just add how strict schools are in this messy subject, when i was a children they were OBSESSED with the haircut and stuff it just put dumbass pressure on me like it wasnt even that long. Just make everyone wear uniforms but dont freak out about every single **** let them just enjoy their life when they grow up they will face enough sadness anyways

Absolutely.

Some great points across the board on this issue on this thread.
Too many to multi quote but Mock, Ammi ( as near always), Marsh, Niamh, Vicky and you yourself MelihV, have said some really good stuff and raised great points.

My school was strict,some of the things they moaned as to to full uniform, just seemed as ridiculous then as this incident does now.

[Livia]

It's brilliant prep for going to work. If you have to wear a uniform for work and decide to express yourself by wearing funky shoes, someone else will be doing your job by the end of the week. You have to follow rules in the workplace, unless you intend to be long-term unemployed, and then you can wear pretty much what you want and express yourself all day long.

[Niamh.]

It's brilliant prep for going to work. If you have to wear a uniform for work and decide to express yourself by wearing funky shoes, someone else will be doing your job by the end of the week. You have to follow rules in the workplace, unless you intend to be long-term unemployed, and then you can wear pretty much what you want and express yourself all day long.

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough :laugh:

[bots]

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough :laugh:

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

[Niamh.]

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

Well, I can't say much more than I already have I guess, we'll only end up going round in circles but I'll just say that I think what they're doing will end up having the opposite effect to what they want to achieve

[joeysteele]

its a serious environment for group learning that must have associated rules with it. No-one will end up learning anything if everyone is allowed to do their own thing. Thats the point really, it is a struggling school, attempting to push up its performance, and very small minority are being disruptive and trying to fight against that aim, supported by their parents. It's wrong on so many levels

I'd agree a little more if they were wearing red shoes, brown shoes, white shoes etc;, since the colour specified is black.
I don't see why it should matter what shoes were worn as long as they were black, as these were.

It is hardly being disruptive in the true meaning of the word in my view anyway.
Perhaps wearing multi coloured shoes would have been nearer that mark

[joeysteele]

Well, I can't say much more than I already have I guess, we'll only end up going round in circles but I'll just say that I think what they're doing will end up having the opposite effect to what they want to achieve

I do too for what it's worth.
I would have actually learned as much dressed in a tracksuit as I use my Brain to learn.
I agree a uniform can be a good sort of training as to examples being set but if black shoes are the order of the day, and black shoes are worn, then what should be the issue.

If they then want a special kind of shoe, supply them then.

[Livia]

They're children though, they will be boring adults for long enough :laugh:

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

[Niamh.]

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

I don't think you and I are going to agree on this one at all :laugh:

[Johnnyuk123]

Yep, good training for them. And people are talking about bringing the voting age down to 16. If teenagers are smart enough to vote, they're smart enough to toe the line. You never hear parents and kids moaning about the strict uniform regimes of some of the top private schools... and they are strict. Parents pay thousands to send their kids and they manage to survive, express themselves and thrive without wearing shoes they've picked themselves. And no one's saying once they're out of school they can't wear whatever they choose and express themselves in any way they want.

I agree 100% Well said Livia! :clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Livia]

I don't think you and I are going to agree on this one at all :laugh:

If you're not going to agree with me I'm afraid we're going to have to wrestle in the car park.

[Niamh.]

If you're not going to agree with me I'm afraid we're going to have to wrestle in the car park.

:laugh:

[bots]

If you're not going to agree with me I'm afraid we're going to have to wrestle in the car park.

thats something i would like to watch! :amazed:

[Livia]

thats something i would like to watch! :amazed:

If it happens tickets will be on sale. Niamh and I aren't stupid...

[Niamh.]

If it happens tickets will be on sale. Niamh and I aren't stupid...

Obviously :hee:

[Tom4784]

It's brilliant prep for going to work. If you have to wear a uniform for work and decide to express yourself by wearing funky shoes, someone else will be doing your job by the end of the week. You have to follow rules in the workplace, unless you intend to be long-term unemployed, and then you can wear pretty much what you want and express yourself all day long.

I tackled this point earlier because I knew it would come up.

There aren't many workplaces that would care about what the shoes look like as long as they are black. None of the shoes in the pictures are at all 'funky' and few employers would bat an eyelid at them. Sending pupils home on a pedantic technicality does not prepare them for working life at all. It's silly to say so.

The Headtwat is being a pedantic mess to try to flex his authority and send a message but all he has done is bring bad press to the school and antagonised the parents and pupils because he's focusing on the insignificant details when he should be focused on doing his job and ensuring these kids get an education.

[joeysteele]

I tackled this point earlier because I knew it would come up.

There aren't many workplaces that would care about what the shoes look like as long as they are black. None of the shoes in the pictures are at all 'funky' and few employers would bat an eyelid at them. Sending pupils home on a pedantic technicality does not prepare them for working life at all. It's silly to say so.

The Headtwat is being a pedantic mess to try to flex his authority and send a message but all he has done is bring bad press to the school and antagonised the parents and pupils because he's focusing on the insignificant details when he should be focused on doing his job and ensuring these kids get an education.


I totally agree.

It is bad enough that some in Education allow children to be branded failures as to not learning quickly enough.
Here now to actually make an issue out of wearing a kind of black shoes, when all that was stipulated was that they needed to be black as to the uniform, and thereby by his actions now possibly affecting learning is just plain ridiculous.

[Livia]

I tackled this point earlier because I knew it would come up.

There aren't many workplaces that would care about what the shoes look like as long as they are black. None of the shoes in the pictures are at all 'funky' and few employers would bat an eyelid at them. Sending pupils home on a pedantic technicality does not prepare them for working life at all. It's silly to say so.

The Headtwat is being a pedantic mess to try to flex his authority and send a message but all he has done is bring bad press to the school and antagonised the parents and pupils because he's focusing on the insignificant details when he should be focused on doing his job and ensuring these kids get an education.

My three nieces were doing quite badly at their local school and my brother and his wife decided to send them to private school. They're not wealthy, they have good jobs and they've given up moving, holidays, an extension and all kinds of other stuff they were planning to send them to this new school. The old school was really lax about uniforms... the new school, you have to wear exactly what the school dictates, including shoes. My nieces are thriving... and their parents are paying. No one moans about the shoes. No one moans that they are not being allowed to "express themselves", on the contrary they are encouraged to follow their passions... my eldest niece is barely in her teens and is doing extra-curricular film studies and one of the others is learning street dance. But the uniform is non-negotiable. The school doesn't see uniform as an insignificant detail. They have all sorts of kids there, kids who have wealthy parents, kids who have parents working hard to pay their fees and kids on scholarships. They all wear the same. They are all equal. I see that as a positive thing.

[Kizzy]

But what relevance does that have to this situation, are the kids thriving because of the quality of the teachers the resources and facilities at their private school or the uniform?

[Johnnyuk123]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

[Jay28jay2]

In my school we have to wear polishable black shoes. Some of those don't look polishable so i've got nothing to say about this

[bots]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

Johnny speaks the truth!

[kirklancaster]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

"Gretchen and Kurt, and Fritz and Hans
Get ready for ze Mods to hand out ze Bans"

:joker:

[Cherie]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

:hee:

[Vicky.]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

Oddly enough, we also have normal lives away from this forum...shocking I know :eek:

Main issue with this for me is...the shoes pictured are not what anyone (rational) would describe as fancy or OTT for school. They are just black shoes. Asking specifically for black 'leather' shoes makes it more expensive, and it is also not clear whether they expect real leather?! Which would be a ridiculous ask.

I would have an issue if someone went in with pink shoes instead of the specified black, but I do not see why the school gets to decide on the actual style of shoe (besides saying, for example, no trainers)

[Niamh.]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

:laugh2:

[Maru]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.

Because society has been preaching rules can be changed when it no longer suits you.. just go on facebook/twitter/media and complain... the school system is right to provide solid structure... when you're out in the world, you can wear whatever you want and do/live however you want... but in school your parent's aren't there to move the goal posts to accommodate for you or to twist arms so you can wear your favorite shoes... you're there to learn to follow instructions and deal with new obstacles... not to complain every time you receive a little bit of humiliation for acting out when things don't go your way... the headmaster is right not to bend on the parent's whim

To me it is just shoes, so why fuss over it, just return them to the store and get others? It wouldn't be any different if you picked up the wrong type of instrument for class or incorrectly lined paper... I made mistakes like that every year, we forgot something we needed and we had to go and exchange something for the right one :shrug: That's life.

[Tom4784]

My three nieces were doing quite badly at their local school and my brother and his wife decided to send them to private school. They're not wealthy, they have good jobs and they've given up moving, holidays, an extension and all kinds of other stuff they were planning to send them to this new school. The old school was really lax about uniforms... the new school, you have to wear exactly what the school dictates, including shoes. My nieces are thriving... and their parents are paying. No one moans about the shoes. No one moans that they are not being allowed to "express themselves", on the contrary they are encouraged to follow their passions... my eldest niece is barely in her teens and is doing extra-curricular film studies and one of the others is learning street dance. But the uniform is non-negotiable. The school doesn't see uniform as an insignificant detail. They have all sorts of kids there, kids who have wealthy parents, kids who have parents working hard to pay their fees and kids on scholarships. They all wear the same. They are all equal. I see that as a positive thing.

I'd say their success is more to do with little things like a higher quality of teaching rather than what they are wearing.
Uniforms only benefit the school, it doesn't benefit the students and it benefits NO ONE AT ALL to pick over the smallest details of someone's shoes when they fit the basic criteria of what's asked of the students.

The headteacher is being a snob that is abusing his authority for no good reason. He needs to remember that he is an educator and not a detective for the Fashion Police.

Uniforms in most schools are just a ****ing racket to squeeze money out of parents anyway.

[arista]

Rules are rules and there to be followed....and NOT debated. All mods know this so why some are siding with the parents is pretty confusing to say the least.


Yes Johnny
Printed Rules to Every Fecking Parent



All Good parents got there kids
in.

[Maru]

Yes Johnny
Printed Rules to Every Fecking Parent



All Good parents got there kids
in.

And orientations :laugh:
"How dare those bastards hold an orientation without us!"... everyone every year

[Livia]

I'd say their success is more to do with little things like a higher quality of teaching rather than what they are wearing.
Uniforms only benefit the school, it doesn't benefit the students and it benefits NO ONE AT ALL to pick over the smallest details of someone's shoes when they fit the basic criteria of what's asked of the students.

The headteacher is being a snob that is abusing his authority for no good reason. He needs to remember that he is an educator and not a detective for the Fashion Police.

Uniforms in most schools are just a ****ing racket to squeeze money out of parents anyway.

Why do we never see parents who've paid for their kids to go to a good school, moaning in the press about the uniform, when it's almost always a much stricter uniform code than state schools. The whole thing about getting the press in to make a fuss detracts much more from the kids' learning than actually following the rules in the first place.

I'd much rather have a strict uniform code, which reinforces the idea that there is discipline in schools, than have the kids in designer wear ripping the piss out of the kids wearing Primark. I remember secondary school... I remember kids emerging, dripping, from the fish pond because they didn't have the right bag.

[Tom4784]

Why do we never see parents who've paid for their kids to go to a good school, moaning in the press about the uniform, when it's almost always a much stricter uniform code than state schools. The whole thing about getting the press in to make a fuss detracts much more from the kids' learning than actually following the rules in the first place.

I'd much rather have a strict uniform code, which reinforces the idea that there is discipline in schools, than have the kids in designer wear ripping the piss out of the kids wearing Primark. I remember secondary school... I remember kids emerging, dripping, from the fish pond because they didn't have the right bag.

Well no, the press attention was a result of the Headtwat's decision to prevent these kids from learning. It was a consequence of HIS decision, not the cause of the disruption itself.

The whole fashion excuse is stupid, bullies will always find a reason to bully others. To try to limit bullying triggers is a pointless endeavor because there will always be a trigger regardless.

The whole idea that uniforms=discipline is also flawed. At my school, if you didn't have the correct uniform, you'd be put into isolation and made to do lines until your parents coughed up the money to buy an overpriced replacement from the school itself and guess what? Our school completely lacked discipline despite the draconian level of strictness over the uniforms. It only reinforced my opinion that uniforms are just a way for schools to force parents to pay for public school.

There's no benefits for students when it to uniforms, they don't prepare you for working life, they don't aid in education (they can actually be a distraction in summer or hot weather), they don't aid in discipline and they don't prevent bullying from occurring. They only benefit a school's profits.

[bots]

Well no, the press attention was a result of the Headtwat's decision to prevent these kids from learning. It was a consequence of HIS decision, not the cause of the disruption itself.

The whole fashion excuse is stupid, bullies will always find a reason to bully others. To try to limit bullying triggers is a pointless endeavor because there will always be a trigger regardless.

The whole idea that uniforms=discipline is also flawed. At my school, if you didn't have the correct uniform, you'd be put into isolation and made to do lines until your parents coughed up the money to buy an overpriced replacement from the school itself and guess what? Our school completely lacked discipline despite the draconian level of strictness over the uniforms. It only reinforced my opinion that uniforms are just a way for schools to force parents to pay for public school.

There's no benefits for students when it to uniforms, they don't prepare you for working life, they don't aid in education (they can actually be a distraction in summer or hot weather), they don't aid in discipline and they don't prevent bullying from occurring. They only benefit a school's profits.

The school published its rules, the vast majority of parent and children complied. The media attention came from the disruptive element that didn't want to comply, and wanted to undermine the schools efforts for improvement.

[joeysteele]

Well no, the press attention was a result of the Headtwat's decision to prevent these kids from learning. It was a consequence of HIS decision, not the cause of the disruption itself.

The whole fashion excuse is stupid, bullies will always find a reason to bully others. To try to limit bullying triggers is a pointless endeavor because there will always be a trigger regardless.

The whole idea that uniforms=discipline is also flawed. At my school, if you didn't have the correct uniform, you'd be put into isolation and made to do lines until your parents coughed up the money to buy an overpriced replacement from the school itself and guess what? Our school completely lacked discipline despite the draconian level of strictness over the uniforms. It only reinforced my opinion that uniforms are just a way for schools to force parents to pay for public school.

There's no benefits for students when it to uniforms, they don't prepare you for working life, they don't aid in education (they can actually be a distraction in summer or hot weather), they don't aid in discipline and they don't prevent bullying from occurring. They only benefit a school's profits.

Very strong point there Dezzy, my school had strict uniform rules which I thought silly myself, however I actually liked my school uniform so was happy to wear it.

I think you are making the really good points as to this issue, the issue really being that the school insisted on black shoes, not a specific type of black shoe, and these were 'black shoes'.

However your point as to bullies, is an even stronger one, everyone conformed to the rules of the School I was at but there were still bullies getting at people, for whatever suited them to get at them for.
I made many stands for other lads against bullies at the school I finished up at.

They were bullying for usually nothing valid ,just out of plain and sheer nastiness.
Nothing as to fashion as you rightly point out.
They will always find something to bully others for.

[_Tom_]

I disagree. If there was no school uniform at all and everyone came in with their own clothes everyday, bullies would have so much more ammunition. Sure, bullies will always find reasons to bully someone - but someone coming in wearing cheaper brands, or coming into class with the same outfit more than once a week for example would make them a much bigger target than their peers.

[Livia]

Well no, the press attention was a result of the Headtwat's decision to prevent these kids from learning. It was a consequence of HIS decision, not the cause of the disruption itself.

The whole fashion excuse is stupid, bullies will always find a reason to bully others. To try to limit bullying triggers is a pointless endeavor because there will always be a trigger regardless.

The whole idea that uniforms=discipline is also flawed. At my school, if you didn't have the correct uniform, you'd be put into isolation and made to do lines until your parents coughed up the money to buy an overpriced replacement from the school itself and guess what? Our school completely lacked discipline despite the draconian level of strictness over the uniforms. It only reinforced my opinion that uniforms are just a way for schools to force parents to pay for public school.

There's no benefits for students when it to uniforms, they don't prepare you for working life, they don't aid in education (they can actually be a distraction in summer or hot weather), they don't aid in discipline and they don't prevent bullying from occurring. They only benefit a school's profits.

I'm not in agreement with calling this man the "headtwat". He hasn'tmade this decision alone, there would have been a whole host of people in on it, including the Board of Governors, many of whom will be parents.

Uniforms are not a distraction. If there is a uniform, there will be a summer version. And also, the school doesn't make a profit on uniforms unless they have a shop in the school or take a cut of profits from the suppliers. And the cost of them are considerably less than the designer stuff that was the chosen uniform by the kids my nieces' old school.

We're going to have to disagree on the rest of it Dezzy. But I can tell you that, as a person who was bullied mercilessly at school, my experience has shown me that what you're wearing is the A.No.1 trigger. It's the first thing the bullies see.

[joeysteele]

I disagree. If there was no school uniform at all and everyone came in with their own clothes everyday, bullies would have so much more ammunition. Sure, bullies will always find reasons to bully someone - but someone coming in wearing cheaper brands, or coming into class with the same outfit more than once a week for example would make them a much bigger target than their peers.

I can see what you mean but I still think bullies would only use fashion as an excuse to bully someone the way they would use any other reason.

I have seen lads bullied for actually having more costly items than others, just as the other way round as well as for cheaper.

Bullies don't really care for the reasons they do it, they just want to make someone's life hell if they can get away with it and will hide behind any excuse to do so too.

This issue is not about cheaper brands however, we have no idea what the offending type of shoes cost anyway.
I doubt the shoes would make for any bullying since they were black ones anyway, in line with the colour code of the school.

However this headteacher,could well have made these pupils open to some abuse in the future for singling them out like this on this issue.

[Vicky.]

Why do we never see parents who've paid for their kids to go to a good school, moaning in the press about the uniform, when it's almost always a much stricter uniform code than state schools. The whole thing about getting the press in to make a fuss detracts much more from the kids' learning than actually following the rules in the first place.

I'd much rather have a strict uniform code, which reinforces the idea that there is discipline in schools, than have the kids in designer wear ripping the piss out of the kids wearing Primark. I remember secondary school... I remember kids emerging, dripping, from the fish pond because they didn't have the right bag.Personally if I could afford to send my kids to private school..I would easily be able to afford the overpriced school crap. As it stands, I cannot afford to pay 100+ per outfit (3 full sets sets would be near 300 quid, plus PE bag, school bag and such that they recommend is coming up to 400 per child)..so have to make do with tescos stuff in the same colours. The school could piss and moan about it if they wanted to be dickheads, and I would be in the same situation as the parents in this story :S And being judged for 'not following rules'. Though I wouldn't go moaning to the press :laugh:

[Jamie89]

I got bullied in school for being a geek... so maybe if we didn't have a uniform the bullies would have targeted other people instead as my fashion sense was flawless :smug: #DownWithUniforms

In all seriousness though I do agree that as far as bullying is concerned they'll find any reason. I think that particular argument is one that's usually tacked on when the real reasons we have uniforms have nothing to do with bullying. I also think the argument that it's to do with preparation for real world uniformity isn't really why schools have uniforms either. I think it's all to do with presentation and how the school wants to be perceived, rather than being for any reason that's particularly beneficial to the child (although I do appreciate there might be some benefits to the child, I don't think that's necessarily the intention of them).

[Vicky.]

I like uniforms as it means my kids don't mess up their nice clothes :laugh: If the school started being strict about it though like the school in this story, I would be ****ed as I wouldn't want them to be wearing stuff everyday that cost me a hundred quid+ :laugh:

[Tom4784]

The school published its rules, the vast majority of parent and children complied. The media attention came from the disruptive element that didn't want to comply, and wanted to undermine the schools efforts for improvement.

And that doesn't change the fact that the original disruption came from the fact that the headtwat decided to go on a power trip that contradicted the very nature of his job. The shoes in the pictures were all black shoes that were perfectly acceptable, the parents have a right to be mad that a headteacher is impeding their children's education just to be a pedantic prick. People like him shouldn't be in charge of schools, actions like this only goes to show that education is secondary to his ego.

I disagree. If there was no school uniform at all and everyone came in with their own clothes everyday, bullies would have so much more ammunition. Sure, bullies will always find reasons to bully someone - but someone coming in wearing cheaper brands, or coming into class with the same outfit more than once a week for example would make them a much bigger target than their peers.

Must we conform in the naive hopes of preventing bullying although we know that it doesn't work anyway? Everyone could go to school looking exactly the same and bullying would still be a factor. To limit individuality out of fear of bullying is a true tragedy and is ultimately cowardly.

I'm not in agreement with calling this man the "headtwat". He hasn'tmade this decision alone, there would have been a whole host of people in on it, including the Board of Governors, many of whom will be parents.

Uniforms are not a distraction. If there is a uniform, there will be a summer version. And also, the school doesn't make a profit on uniforms unless they have a shop in the school or take a cut of profits from the suppliers. And the cost of them are considerably less than the designer stuff that was the chosen uniform by the kids my nieces' old school.

We're going to have to disagree on the rest of it Dezzy. But I can tell you that, as a person who was bullied mercilessly at school, my experience has shown me that what you're wearing is the A.No.1 trigger. It's the first thing the bullies see.

He is a man who places his own power trips over the needs of his students, I shall call him a headtwat as much as I please because it's an appropriate name for a mediocre person like him who shouldn't be in a position of authority. A school is a place of education, anyone that prioritises conformity over education i has lost sight of the purpose of a school in the first place.

I've never known a secondary school to offer a summer alternative, I don't think it's common practice outside of summer dresses for primary school girls. Schools can and do make a profit from uniforms, ours certainly did, especially when they changed from jumpers to blazers to squeeze more money out of the parents. If a school has an individual design for their uniform then chances are they profit from it, otherwise what is the point of having a specific uniform designed for the school if not to take generic and cheaper options out of the equation and force parents to either buy from the school or from a shop affiliated with them?

[Livia]

I've never known a secondary school to offer a summer alternative, I don't think it's common practice outside of summer dresses for primary school girls. Schools can and do make a profit from uniforms, ours certainly did, especially when they changed from jumpers to blazers to squeeze more money out of the parents. If a school has an individual design for their uniform then chances are they profit from it, otherwise what is the point of having a specific uniform designed for the school if not to take generic and cheaper options out of the equation and force parents to either buy from the school or from a shop affiliated with them?

Actually, all you know about this man is what you've read in this one report. Kind of a thin reason to call him names.

Aaaaanyhoo..... we're never going to see eye to eye on this. I'm happy to agree to differ.

[Tom4784]

Actually, all you know about this man is what you've read in this one report. Kind of a thin reason to call him names.

Aaaaanyhoo..... we're never going to see eye to eye on this. I'm happy to agree to differ.

The incident is enough to tell me what kind of head he is. Any head that would send pupils home because he doesn't like their shoes when they match the criteria of the school's dress code tells me that they care more about pedantic bureaucracy and their own ego then providing an education. Anyone can step up when it counts but it's the small things that illuminate what a person is truly like.

[Livia]

Again... he did not make this decision alone and his hands were probably tied.

But like I said, we're never going to agree.

[Tom4784]

Again... he did not make this decision alone and his hands were probably tied.

But like I said, we're never going to agree.

Where does it say that? I just looked at the article again and it makes no such mention of it. Plenty of stories about how hypocritical he is though and how standards seem to change depending on how he feels that day. Sometimes shoes are fine, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes he feels like the official uniform is not official enough. It's fair to say that he seems quite mad with power and he isn't clearing up this messy policy and is instead making it more convoluted by the day.

I despise people like him, he isn't doing his job, he's willfully preventing kids from learning for no good reason and he's antagonistic just to prove a point. Someone like that should not be a headteacher.

I'm willing to bet the school will have lower scores then it did last year with a crazed bureaucrat like him in charge who obviously doesn't care about doing his job.

[Maru]

I got bullied in school for being a geek... so maybe if we didn't have a uniform the bullies would have targeted other people instead as my fashion sense was flawless :smug: #DownWithUniform.

I got by by dressing more like a boy (wearing a hoodie and acting anti-social). It worked for a little while :laugh: Step 2. Then I learned how to skip lunch. Ate my burger and disappeared into the school and eventually found my way into a computer lab... Step 3. then I ended up working in the computer lab... then they realized OMG THIS GIRL CAN FIX PC'S LIKE NO ****... spent most of eighth grade fixing every single computer in the school. It was actually how I got into webdesign. The lab tech gave me my first HTML book and then I was like oooh this is fun, went and bought my own... :clap1:

This is also how I skipped gym. Another popular troll den. That's literally how I survived MS. If my trail ever got too hot, I had a lot of adults to confide in and they would let me hang out with them.. it was nice. :laugh::laugh: