The EU Army

[jaxie]

Juncker has given a speech and in it is pushing the need for military HQ and a European army. I find this idea disturbing. We have NATO and member states have their own forces. Why is a European army needed?

[arista]

With soon , no UK
and soon less USA help
he thinking much down the road

[Northern Monkey]

What were all the inners and EU politicians saying before BREXIT again?
"There will be no EU army".
Of course we all knew they were just waiting for the Brexit result before they went ahead.

[Livia]

It was a predicatable speech. Bash the UK for hate crimes against immigrants (even though no evidence has been produced yet that they actually were hate crimes); state categorically that hating other people is not the European way.... except WW2, obviously... and let's not talk about the rise of neo-Nazism in Germany and other countries. It's an exercise to demonstrate that the EU is still viable and to try to calm other countries who know damn well that if they had a referendum, it'd go the same way as the UK referendum.

And incidentally, who the **** voted to Juncker to speak for the whole of Europe? No one.

[Northern Monkey]

It was a predicatable speech. Bash the UK for hate crimes against immigrants (even though no evidence has been produced yet that they actually were hate crimes); state categorically that hating other people is not the European way.... except WW2, obviously... and let's not talk about the rise of neo-Nazism in Germany and other countries. It's an exercise to demonstrate that the EU is still viable and to try to calm other countries who know damn well that if they had a referendum, it'd go the same way as the UK referendum.

And incidentally, who the **** voted to Juncker to speak for the whole of Europe? No one.

:clap1:

[Kizzy]

They do need to galvanise as they can no longer trust their neighbours not to align with countries with appaling human rights records (as in you can no longer trust the English)
as more and more incidents of corruption are exposed it highlights just how undemocratic we are becoming.

[kirklancaster]

It was a predicatable speech. Bash the UK for hate crimes against immigrants (even though no evidence has been produced yet that they actually were hate crimes); state categorically that hating other people is not the European way.... except WW2, obviously... and let's not talk about the rise of neo-Nazism in Germany and other countries. It's an exercise to demonstrate that the EU is still viable and to try to calm other countries who know damn well that if they had a referendum, it'd go the same way as the UK referendum.

And incidentally, who the **** voted to Juncker to speak for the whole of Europe? No one.

:worship::worship::worship: I have written LONG posts on this B.S. 'Brotherhood of Europe' crapola;from the French's LONG history of attacking legitimate British Imports, from Beef to Lamb to millions of gallons of wine, AND the poor lorry drivers hauling it, to the long entrenched, barely concealed, anti-British feelings of MOST of the EU Member States political leaders.

Your BRILLIANT post says it ALL.

[kirklancaster]

They do need to galvanise as they can no longer trust their neighbours not to align with countries with appaling human rights records (as in you can no longer trust the English)
as more and more incidents of corruption are exposed it highlights just how undemocratic we are becoming.

The 'ENGLISH'? This is THE UNITED KINGDOM or GREAT BRITAIN. :shrug: AND one can CERTAINLY 'trust' the civilised, moderate, and BIG HEARTED 'English', FAR MORE, than one can trust most of the other countries in the world.

Corruption has ALWAYS been a part of ALL countries political systems - from the birth of democracy - but it is not as rife in THIS country as in most other countries of the world.

Personally, in my opinion, 'Human Rights' is a hackneyed little phrase which is all too often pulled out of too many 'Hats' like white Rabbits whenever anyone with an axe to grind against DEMOCRACY or GREAT BRITAIN needs any old reason to justify their stance.

I am sick of hearing and seeing the phrase.

[Livia]

The 'ENGLISH'? This is THE UNITED KINGDOM or GREAT BRITAIN. :shrug: AND one can CERTAINLY 'trust' the civilised, moderate, and BIG HEARTED 'English', FAR MORE, than one can trust most of the other countries in the world.

Corruption has ALWAYS been a part of ALL countries political systems - from the birth of democracy - but it is not as rife in THIS country as in most other countries of the world.

Personally, in my opinion, 'Human Rights' is a hackneyed little phrase which is all too often pulled out of too many 'Hats' like white Rabbits whenever anyone with an axe to grind against DEMOCRACY or GREAT BRITAIN needs any old reason to justify their stance.

I am sick of hearing and seeing the phrase.

I find the people who knock the UK the hardest are usually people who have little or no experience of anywhere else.

[Kizzy]

The 'ENGLISH'? This is THE UNITED KINGDOM or GREAT BRITAIN. :shrug: AND one can CERTAINLY 'trust' the civilised, moderate, and BIG HEARTED 'English', FAR MORE, than one can trust most of the other countries in the world.

Corruption has ALWAYS been a part of ALL countries political systems - from the birth of democracy - but it is not as rife in THIS country as in most other countries of the world.

Personally, in my opinion, 'Human Rights' is a hackneyed little phrase which is all too often pulled out of too many 'Hats' like white Rabbits whenever anyone with an axe to grind against DEMOCRACY or GREAT BRITAIN needs any old reason to justify their stance.

I am sick of hearing and seeing the phrase.

As in the English parliament, we have no idea just how overtly corrupt our govt is, however as Orgreave proved covertly there is a dark side to our 'democratic' establishment.
The Human Rights Act is legislation and as such voted and passed democratically.
It is fundamentally important.

[jaxie]

They do need to galvanise as they can no longer trust their neighbours not to align with countries with appaling human rights records (as in you can no longer trust the English)
as more and more incidents of corruption are exposed it highlights just how undemocratic we are becoming.

I'd be quite ashamed if I wrote that. It also sounds rather racist.

[jaxie]

As in the English parliament, we have no idea just how overtly corrupt our govt is, however as Orgreave proved covertly there is a dark side to our 'democratic' establishment.
The Human Rights Act is legislation and as such voted and passed democratically.
It is fundamentally important.

It's the British parliament, England is the only country in the union who has no assembly or parliament of its own.

You are very lucky to live in the UK there are much worse places in the world to live. In regard human rights try Zimbabwe, run by the Pope's special friend.

[joeysteele]

Well it is irrelevant now with the UK leaving the EU as to ourselves being part of it.

However I was never really against the idea in principle myself.
Depending that was,on the finer detail as to it, whatever that may have turned out to be.

Emotive issue it would have been,and I would understand the majority of others big reservations to it coming about but I would have likely supported the idea.

[Northern Monkey]

They do need to galvanise as they can no longer trust their neighbours not to align with countries with appaling human rights records (as in you can no longer trust the English)
as more and more incidents of corruption are exposed it highlights just how undemocratic we are becoming.:bored:
More anti British rubbish.You think the EU are'nt corrupt in any way?Or that it's somehow democratic?The UK showed them what democracy was when we voted get out of their dictatorial organisation and it seems we've done it at the right time.

[anne666]

They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone an army and what the hell will they screw up trying to run it? Proved alarmingly well by the migrant chaos and deaths they've allowed and encouraged. If they can't simply chuck excessive amounts of money at their problems they're lost.
Junket's ramblings on this began early last year. France and the UK weren't in favour. Merkel tried to extort Cameron's agreement as part of his EU renegotiations. After her migrant madness last September they were wetting their knickers about an army as some kind of external border protection. When they were in it up to their inept necks, having done sod all to protect the borders or deal properly with the crisis.
Not to worry, Germany's now got what they wanted, lot's of young fit and fertile newcomers to help their labour shortages and low birth rate.
I'm not sure what they think an army will do at the borders, Frontex is a hopeless sick joke, but I doubt if they can think quite that far outside of their box, so who knows. The first thing they did last year was pick out a colour for the army uniform, a fetching shade of blue and nothing else as far as I know. A hugely important decision which no doubt needed 678930 committee meetings and loadsamoney thrown at them as usual. No doubt it's a wonderful idea for profligate federalists and their fantasy future but bugger all else, especially if it's under EU control.

[bots]

An EU army makes more sense than it did now that the UK is leaving. The majority of EU countries don't have much protection and Germany isn't allowed to do anything. Its irrelevant to us now anyway, but Junkers opinion never has mattered.

[kirklancaster]

:bored:
More anti British rubbish.You think the EU are'nt corrupt in any way?Or that it's somehow democratic?The UK showed them what democracy was when we voted get out of their dictatorial organisation and it seems we've done it at the right time.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Preach that truth brother.

[Northern Monkey]

A brilliant reply to this speech on the issue from the man who gave us our escape from this dictatorship
/yQgFdSFBtxo

[Johnnyuk123]

Didn't the EU remain camp clearly state that there is NEVER going to be an EU Army?
I think an explanation would be nice. thanks.

[the truth]

the eu is simply frightening, far moreso than the usa

[Kizzy]

I'd be quite ashamed if I wrote that. It also sounds rather racist.

Can I not have an opinion on the my country of birth? I don't feel proud to be British at the moment with the current state of affairs... I am just not one for blind faith, I make no apologies for your over sensitivity ... this 'we can do no wrong' attitude is ridiculous... we have made mistakes, this infantalisation of the masses towards unwavering devotion to the supreme leaders is frankly macabre.

I'll thank you not to stare name calling please, I am not 'racist' as English is not a race.

[Kizzy]

:bored:
More anti British rubbish.You think the EU are'nt corrupt in any way?Or that it's somehow democratic?The UK showed them what democracy was when we voted get out of their dictatorial organisation and it seems we've done it at the right time.

I am entitled to my opinion we still for now have relatively free speech therefore as a citizen I'm free to express myself... We are not any other country and I'm not a citizen of another country either therefore any comparison is invalid.
Dictatorial organisation?...... Hmmmm Hinkleys back on, can anyone assist us being railroaded into that?

Democracy my arse...:/

[joeysteele]

Can I not have an opinion on the my country of birth? I don't feel proud to be British at the moment with the current state of affairs... I am just not one for blind faith, I make no apologies for your over sensitivity ... this 'we can do no wrong' attitude is ridiculous... we have made mistakes, this infantalisation of the masses towards unwavering devotion to the supreme leaders is frankly macabre.

I'll thank you not to stare name calling please, I am not 'racist' as English is not a race.

I am a mix of all the Countries of these islands, a mix of Scots, Irish and English as I was born in Worcestershire.
All I would say is I can well understand the frustrations and annoyance you are feeling currently.
Except mine is not with Britain as a whole,I am very proud to be British but rather less so being English.
With recent events.

What I am witnessing as to some of the most vile prejudices, from admittedly a likely minority but that's not certain,crawling out the woodwork and showing itself more publicly here in England recently now.
Certainly makes me feel sad and even ashamed at times of this particular part of the UK.
Like it clearly has yourself Kizzy.

I still would say I see some merit in this EU idea, whether it ever comes to fruition is another matter.
Anyway we do not now have to be any part of it now at all or even consider same.
Then again I am a supporter of the EU and will stay so, so I would have been likely warmer to this idea than most others.

[jaxie]

Can I not have an opinion on the my country of birth? I don't feel proud to be British at the moment with the current state of affairs... I am just not one for blind faith, I make no apologies for your over sensitivity ... this 'we can do no wrong' attitude is ridiculous... we have made mistakes, this infantalisation of the masses towards unwavering devotion to the supreme leaders is frankly macabre.

I'll thank you not to stare name calling please, I am not 'racist' as English is not a race.

English most certainly is a race. Not feeling over sensitive at all just surprised by how disloyal to your country you sound if you are English. If you are from another part of the union then you seem to have a real issue with the English. There isn't a nation on earth that can do no wrong but living in this country is pretty damn good and allows you freedoms you wouldn't get in other places. Freedom it sounds like you are taking very much for granted. The infantalisation is all in your head.

[jaxie]

I am a mix of all the Countries of these islands, a mix of Scots, Irish and English as I was born in Worcestershire.
All I would say is I can well understand the frustrations and annoyance you are feeling currently.
Except mine is not with Britain as a whole,I am very proud to be British but rather less so being English.
With recent events.

What I am witnessing as to some of the most vile prejudices, from admittedly a likely minority but that's not certain,crawling out the woodwork and showing itself more publicly here in England recently now.
Certainly makes me feel sad and even ashamed at times of this particular part of the UK.
Like it clearly has yourself Kizzy.

I still would say I see some merit in this EU idea, whether it ever comes to fruition is another matter.
Anyway we do not now have to be any part of it now at all or even consider same.
Then again I am a supporter of the EU and will stay so, so I would have been likely warmer to this idea than most others.

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you. :shrug:

[joeysteele]

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you. :shrug:

Not every person who voted leave are carrying out these vile attacks and verbal assaults on people who have been here for decades, even people they have worked with for years too.
I said a minority if your read the post properly.

Please do not patronise me, I have every right to feel pride or shame in my Country,whatever may be the case, that is actually for me to decide how I feel.

Furthermore, keep telling yourself there are a tiny number of cases, these cases are things our media do not want people to hear.

I actually work as a Solicitor and I know the things I have heard about and also have even worked on as to helping prepare cases for Court.
Many are currently in waiting to be heard in Crown Court too.

You can also choose to ignore if you wish,the fact that the Police have even said there is a substantial increase in reported hate and xenophobic/racist crime since the referendum.

These are the things Kizzy clearly has come across and then myself more from the work I do.
Not all is rosy or at present even nice in the English garden at present,and it is in England where the bulk of such hate incidents are on the increase more than anywhere else and that should be a concern for everyone in England, no matter how they voted.
Oh and it was 38% of Scots who voted to leave,not 39%, also English is not a race.
It is one Country of the UK, nothing else and I do not hate the English,I am English.
I again state I am against and ashamed of the 'minority' as I stated, of those who are 'English' who have crawled out the woodwork as to this referendum with their racist, xenophobic and hate related prejudices.
In whatever form those prejudices are.

[Livia]

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you. :shrug:

I agree with all that...

I'm very tired of the claims that England is a racist country. Google racist attacks in any country in Europe and you'll find plenty. The claims are a sur by people with a different agenda. There was recently a Romanian shop in Norwich firebombed and some people were wringing their hands saying how awful thse racist attacks are. Turned out it was another Romanian gang who firebombed it.

The rise of NeoNazism in Germany is scary. I'd be more worried about that, to be honest.

[Niamh.]

I wonder where we'd stand in all of this, Ireland is supposed to be a neutral country :think:

[jaxie]

Not every person who voted leave are carrying out these vile attacks and verbal assaults on people who have been here for decades, even people they have worked with for years too.
I said a minority if your read the post properly.

Please do not patronise me, I have every right to feel pride or shame in my Country,whatever may be the case, that is actually for me to decide how I feel.

Furthermore, keep telling yourself there are a tiny number of cases, these cases are things our media do not want people to hear.

I actually work as a Solicitor and I know the things I have heard about and also have even worked on as to helping prepare cases for Court.
Many are currently in waiting to be heard in Crown Court too.

You can also choose to ignore if you wish,the fact that the Police have even said there is a substantial increase in reported hate and xenophobic/racist crime since the referendum.

These are the things Kizzy clearly has come across and then myself more from the work I do.
Not all is rosy or at present even nice in the English garden at present,and it is in England where the bulk of such hate incidents are on the increase more than anywhere else and that should be a concern for everyone in England, no matter how they voted.
Oh and it was 38% of Scots who voted to leave,not 39%, also English is not a race.
It is one Country of the UK, nothing else and I do not hate the English,I am English.
I again state I am against and ashamed of the 'minority' as I stated, of those who are 'English' who have crawled out the woodwork as to this referendum with their racist, xenophobic and hate related prejudices.
In whatever form those prejudices are.

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

[bots]

I wonder where we'd stand in all of this, Ireland is supposed to be a neutral country :think:

You would probably hire Dad's Army :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

I will wager EVERYTHING I own - EVERYTHING which I have worked ALL my life for - that the number of crimes of ALL types perpetrated BY migrants, FAR outnumber ANY crimes perpetrated AGAINST them by indigenous BRITISH people.

I am personally fecking sick and tired of the same old cliched, hackneyed, ANTI-BRITISH propaganda incessantly plastered all over this forum from the same quarters - which is one of the main reasons why I do not post much on here any more.

It is so tedious and so predictable.

Just my personal opinion of some of the VIEWS expressed on here. I am NOT personally ATTACKING anyone just criticising some of the views.

[Niamh.]

You would probably hire Dad's Army :hehe:

We do have an Army but they're like, peace keepers or some s**t :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

I have previously posted long, comprehensive posts answering these types of allegations - as have others - and here we are again, dancing the same dance with the same partners.

I could pick up the phone RIGHT NOW and fictitiously report that on my way back from the local shops, I was jostled, spat upon, and called racist names by two white English men, and THAT call is LOGGED.

The police only follow up in the most EXTREME cases - where injury from violence has been suffered - but even if anyone from the police DID come out to' follow up' my report - WHAT THE FECK can they do to ascertain that my report is truthful?

I tell them a story, cannot identify the 'perpetrators' - who are long gone anyway - and it is just one more 'Hate Crime' on the records.

It's funny how the FACTS and STATISTICS which I have often reproduced in my posts to corroborate what I am saying - the EU Referendum one's included - have been decried and denied, yet a quite MEANINGLESS set of 'statistics' which are the result of highly questionable 'Telephone' report lines, are waved aloft as if they were IRREFUTABLE proof.

[Niamh.]

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

[kirklancaster]

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

I apologise Niamh - Post corrected.

[user104658]

Can we stop with the "some people" posts please?

It seems like some people just can't, sadly.

[joeysteele]

You have no way of knowing if the people carrying out the assaults even voted in the referendum at all!

You say it's in England the bulk of these crimes are reported, how can you know that for sure? Do you have access to the details or statistics of those kinds of crimes reported in the other countries of the union?

Since the referendum there has actually an effort to urge people to report hate, so it's very hard to say if the rise in reports is a rise in the crime, or a rise in the reporting of the crime and a rise in awareness.

We should always be concerned about any hate crime but trying to make it an issue of Brexit is probably fairly naive. There are always people in every society with those views.

Do I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Yes I hope so.

I wish I was free to reveal things I have and am working on and due or have been taken to Court as to your point in the first paragraph.
However I must not.

I am a Lawyer, I talk to other Lawyers across the UK,the rise is mainly in England, however there is validity to your point that more incidents and crimes not reported before are likely being now, however again, I am hearing more and more of the terminology of, ''we voted to get rid of you, why are you still here''.
Again ignore that if you choose.

No one is making it about brexit either, I said the referendum had brought out of the woodwork a minority who held racist,xenophobic and other prejudiced views.

I stress a minority again, that is what I said, no one is saying at all England is a racist Country,only that these incidents and yes crimes too, are on the rise in England particularly.

I don't either make mountains out of molehills, I just do my job in working Law, and I know what I and my colleagues come across and have heard and seen.

You and others can dismiss all you like as to that just to suit your agenda, I would rather my agenda stay as it was before,than have to now deal with people being got at unjustly, just because they are of a different race or nationality.
Do you work in Law, do you see these cases?

Apart from just questioning my integrity,what actual facts have you to say this is not the case as to these rising incidents and crimes.
Are or even the Police wrong too in your eyes who recommend the charging for said incidents/crimes.

[Livia]

No one knows who voted in or out, it's not something that anyone is obliged to reveal, ever. What's more, it would make no difference to a criminal proceeding at all. There are no statistics on whether people who voted to leave are more violent/racist than those who voted remain. I am also a lawyer. I have access to all kinds of statistics... but not those. Because they don't exist.

[Niamh.]

It seems like some people just can't, sadly.

less of your cheek Mister :laugh:

[Tom4784]

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

[bots]

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

Not really disagreeing with your points. but equally the term racists have been thrown around when its actually nationalist in nature, not racist. The whole issue is being mis termed and confused.

I don't really think racist issues have increased since brexit, I do believe there has been a clear, marked increase in nationalism since brexit. I defy anyone to deny that, and it has been accompanied by hate in a minority of cases.

I think when this is clarified, to me anyway, it identifies the issues that we do have now.

[Tom4784]

Not really disagreeing with your points. but equally the term racists have been thrown around when its actually nationalist in nature, not racist. The whole issue is being mis termed and confused.

I don't really think racist issues have increased since brexit, I do believe there has been a clear, marked increase in nationalism since brexit. I defy anyone to deny that, and it has been accompanied by hate in a minority of cases.

I think when this is clarified, to me anyway, it identifies the issues that we do have now.

I don't think there's been a rise in racism either, it's always been there, it's just that the racists felt emboldened when Brexit won.

[Livia]

I don't think there's been a rise in racism either, it's always been there, it's just that the racists felt emboldened when Brexit won.

Yes, I can agree with that.

I think also, people who voted to leave - like myself - who do not consider themselves racist and, indeed in some cases come from a small ethnic group themselves, should make it clear at every opportunity that their decision was not based solely on immigration and that racists using the vote as an excuse are scum. But we already knew that. Like you say, racism has always been there. When my family came over to this country after the war they were welcomed by the majority... but despite what they'd just been through, they were abused by a small section of society.

Less than a lifetime ago this country went to war for Poland. I don't think we've changed that much as a country... I just think racists are challenged on their beliefs more, and I approve of that.

[jaxie]

1. English is a nationality, not a race.

2. Patriotism is a poison, I'd rather see things for what they are then blind myself with a rose tinted view of what I want things to be.

3. Hate crimes did become more prevalent after the vote and they were only the reported ones. The result of Brexit was decided on the issue of immigration, lots of ignorant people voted for an exit although ultimately the vote wouldn't affect immigration either way. I can't say I approve of the EU's shade but if I'm honest, I can't say it's wrong. Pointing out the rise of neo-nazism in Germany doesn't lessen the rise in hate crime here as a result of Brexit.

The Oxford English dictionary defines race as a group of persons connected by common descent. That's good enough for me.

Everyone who doesn't share your pessimistic view is deluded then?

[Kizzy]

English most certainly is a race. Not feeling over sensitive at all just surprised by how disloyal to your country you sound if you are English. If you are from another part of the union then you seem to have a real issue with the English. There isn't a nation on earth that can do no wrong but living in this country is pretty damn good and allows you freedoms you wouldn't get in other places. Freedom it sounds like you are taking very much for granted. The infantalisation is all in your head.

No, no it isn't. I am English, however I have the rare ability to be objective about the decisions we make as a country and how they impact globally.
I am very proud of the freedoms we have in this country this is the whole reason for my dismay ( no pun intended) those freedoms are being eroded.

To me the essence of Britishness IS demanding your rights, holding those in positions of responsibility to account to maintain our civil liberties.
How English is it to be duped, lied to and be spoonfed misinformation?

This country could very quickly ed up like A N other in the blink of an eye with a few subtle changes to legislation, subverting 100s of years of struggles that took generations to achieve, yet anyone who doesn't roll over is seen as some social disobedient?.... I'm sorry but that smacks of conditioning and I'm seeing it happening more and more.

[Kizzy]

I find the people who knock the UK the hardest are usually people who have little or no experience of anywhere else.

In what context? do I have to be descended from immigrants to extol the virtues of this country without analysis...is this what you're saying?

[Northern Monkey]

Since when did wanting to control immigration from western predominantly white countries become racism?Somebody argued that 'English' is'nt a race:shrug:Well neither is Polish,Czech,Latvian or Spanish

[Niamh.]

Closed for cleaning, can I ask people to just stick to discussing the topic and not eachother when i reopen this. It's not that hard, surely?

[jaxie]

Since when did wanting to control immigration from western predominantly white countries become racism?Somebody argued that 'English' is'nt a race:shrug:Well neither is Polish,Czech,Latvian or Spanish

It's crazy isn't it? And there were so many other reasons to vote Brexit yet again and again it's made into a race issue.

[arista]

Closed for cleaning, can I ask people to just stick to discussing the topic and not eachother when i reopen this. It's not that hard, surely?


That's Dedication
You are such a Fine Lady

[anne666]

The Oxford English dictionary defines race as a group of persons connected by common descent. That's good enough for me.

Everyone who doesn't share your pessimistic view is deluded then?

English is an ethnicity, not a race. The race classification of English people is obviously varied but mainly caucasian.
There are only four "major" races, caucasian, negroid or black, australoid and mongoloid or asian.

[Cherie]

Closed for cleaning, can I ask people to just stick to discussing the topic and not eachother when i reopen this. It's not that hard, surely?

It isn't, but don't call me surely

[kirklancaster]

It isn't, but don't call me surely

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Cherie]

[/B]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

I love that line from Airplane, just couldn't resist :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

I love that line from Airplane, just couldn't resist :laugh:

:laugh: Genuinely made me burst out laughing Cherie. :laugh: (Wish I'd thought of it. :hee:)

[Niamh.]

I love that film :flutter:

[Mystic Mock]

The EU is like the USA, it's the United States Of Europe and all of the countries in there are States that help run the country.

[Mystic Mock]

The 'ENGLISH'? This is THE UNITED KINGDOM or GREAT BRITAIN. :shrug: AND one can CERTAINLY 'trust' the civilised, moderate, and BIG HEARTED 'English', FAR MORE, than one can trust most of the other countries in the world.

Corruption has ALWAYS been a part of ALL countries political systems - from the birth of democracy - but it is not as rife in THIS country as in most other countries of the world.

Personally, in my opinion, 'Human Rights' is a hackneyed little phrase which is all too often pulled out of too many 'Hats' like white Rabbits whenever anyone with an axe to grind against DEMOCRACY or GREAT BRITAIN needs any old reason to justify their stance.

I am sick of hearing and seeing the phrase.

Describing the English like that is almost like pleading for other people to see it that way because you deep down know that it's not all rosey in England at the minute and that's to do with the Government running this country encouraging hatred and paranoia amongst each other so nobody questions the laws that they're either trying to pass through, or they've already passed through.

And an even bigger question, what is the UK's plan post-EU again?

[Mystic Mock]

:bored:
More anti British rubbish.You think the EU are'nt corrupt in any way?Or that it's somehow democratic?The UK showed them what democracy was when we voted get out of their dictatorial organisation and it seems we've done it at the right time.

The EU does have it's problems no doubt about it, but it's an unnecessary risk when all we could've done was have a Referendum on how to reform the EU to our liking, not leave it.

And good luck getting democracy under this Government, with Corbyn about to stand for Labour again we've got a third term of more Tories picking on the working class with no restraints from either Lib Dems or The EU, more ridiculous taxes like the Sugar Tax, and more Authoritarian ristrictions on the Internet.

Oh and we might get Blood Sport back, wohoo!

[Mystic Mock]

Well there at least two cases on the news that might or might not be vile prejudices as they haven't actually mentioned any evidence they were race related apart from the victim being polish. Unfortunately crime happens every day and it isn't always racially motivated no matter where the people originate from or indeed anything to with the EU. Stephan Lawrence's murder was a vile prejudice for instance and deserves justice.

If you are English hating over the EU referendum, don't forget to include the Welsh, and the 39% of Scots who voted to leave plus the NIs who voted same. Or it sounds like you are just picking on one race. Which makes you guilty of the very thing that is upsetting you. :shrug:

Scotland and NI voted to stay overwhelmingly, that's the very definition of undemocratic to not let them stay in the EU.

[jaxie]

Scotland and NI voted to stay overwhelmingly, that's the very definition of undemocratic to not let them stay in the EU.

That's ridiculous. You can't please all of the people all the time so you go with the majority vote. That's democracy, everyone has a fair and equal chance to win the vote. When you don't, accept it.

[Tom4784]

The Oxford English dictionary defines race as a group of persons connected by common descent. That's good enough for me.

Everyone who doesn't share your pessimistic view is deluded then?

You can think that but it doesn't change the fact that english is a nationality and not a race, english people don't all share one common genealogy but people of the same race do.

Your last point is combative to the extreme, stick to discussing my post and not getting personal by attributing your own impressions to my intent.

[Mystic Mock]

That's ridiculous. You can't please all of the people all the time so you go with the majority vote. That's democracy, everyone has a fair and equal chance to win the vote. When you don't, accept it.

Well explain that to the two countries that have been pulled out of the EU against their will?

[jaxie]

Well explain that to the two countries that have been pulled out of the EU against their will?

And the 39% of Scots who wanted to leave the EU?

[bots]

Well explain that to the two countries that have been pulled out of the EU against their will?

They are not separate countries though, they are not members of the EU as Scotland etc, they are members of the EU as the UK, which is one body. You are making an artificial division.

[Livia]

That's ridiculous. You can't please all of the people all the time so you go with the majority vote. That's democracy, everyone has a fair and equal chance to win the vote. When you don't, accept it.

Mock didn't vote and yet he's posted a myriad of posts criticising the result. You can do that when you live in a free, democratic country.

A word on race... when people say you can't be racist against the English because English is not a race... I think we all know what they mean. Maybe, technically, the term is anti-English. Race is a sticky issue. Jews think of themselves as a race although technically they are not.

[Niamh.]

Mock didn't vote and yet he's posted a myriad of posts criticising the result. You can do that when you live in a free, democratic country.

A word on race... when people say you can't be racist against the English because English is not a race... I think we all know what they mean. Maybe, technically, the term is anti-English. Race is a sticky issue. Jews think of themselves as a race although technically they are not.

Xenophobic :hee:

[Tom4784]

If we were to go by the typical rules of elections and political votes, the result of Brexit wouldn't be enough to declare a majority. It's fair to question the democracy of it all when almost half of the voters voted against the result.

[bots]

If we were to go by the typical rules of elections and political votes, the result of Brexit wouldn't be enough to declare a majority. It's fair to question the democracy of it all when almost half of the voters voted against the result.

The rules of the referendum were clear before the vote though, one can't shout that's not fair afterwards - and I was a remain supporter.

The same logic could be applied to Scotlands independence referendum. Not enough people voted to remain in the UK to not justify independence .... When the rules are clear, its up to the voters to get the results they want for victory

[Tom4784]

The rules of the referendum were clear before the vote though, one can't shout that's not fair afterwards - and I was a remain supporter.

The same logic could be applied to Scotlands independence referendum. Not enough people voted to remain in the UK to not justify independence .... When the rules are clear, its up to the voters to get the results they want for victory

Was it really made clear though? You can't blame people for not being happy about a major decision being made when a majority wasn't reached for either option.

It's a flawed referendum regardless of the winner. Future referendums should be based on majorities. It's not really a victory for either option if the vote is basically split down the middle.

[bots]

Was it really made clear though? You can't blame people for not being happy about a major decision being made when a majority wasn't reached for either option.

It's a flawed referendum regardless of the winner. Future referendums should be based on majorities. It's not really a victory for either option if the vote is basically split down the middle.

i'm still of the opinion that its all a load of bluster. In or out, we still have to trade with people, we still want to go to european countries to live and work, so we have to reciprocate. That's what life in the big world is, i think many are in for a shock. We can't turn the clock back 40 years independent of the rest of the world.

[Scarlett.]

Honestly having an EU army wouldn't be such a terrible idea, given how Russia have been slowly edging back to their insanity days.