JonBenét Ramsey

[Vicky.]

Not sure how much people on here know about this. Its something I have been interested in for a very very long time. For those not familiar..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_JonBen%C3%A9t_Ramsey

The reason this has been brought back to my attention is last night I found out CBS had done a documentary series about it, where their team of experts appear to have came to the came conclusion that I did years ago.

I cannot go into everything on here as it would just be a huge wall of text, but for anyone who knows about this case, or watched this program...what do you think?

I always thought the brother killed her and the parents staged the scene to protect their remaining living child. Too many things do not add up. And the CBS documentary FINALLY let me hear the full version of the 911 call, in which it is pretty unmistakable that a conversation happened after Patsy thought she had hung up the phone, and its quite clear Burke was actually there as you can hear him on the call...whilst the parents (and Burke) say to this day he was in his room the whole time. The ransom note makes no ****ing sense at all...none of it, not just what the note says, but how long it is when an intruder would write quickly and **** off, every extra minute spent adding unnecessary details is another minute you could be caught. An apparent kidnapping with ransom request where the child is killed and left inside the house?! The brothers lack of reaction or emotion about it all...just so many things that don't make much sense which on their own could be nothing but so many inconsistencies make me question a lot.

For anyone interested (its long mind, I am only halfway through now) http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey/
Its geoblocked in the UK but I found it elsewhere once I had the name of the program.

Also another couple of links to do with this...
http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/2016/09/20/cbs-panel-burke-ramsey-killed-sister-jonbenet/90730438/
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/22/media/burke-ramsey-jonbenet-cbs/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/why-smiling-murdered-jonbenet-ramseys-8820744

Next port of call for me is watching this dr phil interview. I have seen screencaps and find the manic smiling odd...but of course the theory that he was nervous about being on TV could hold up.

This poor little girl still has no justice 20 years on. Its a bloody disgrace.

[Nicky91]

it is a weird story i agree :)

[Niamh.]

I know a little bit about it Vicky and i saw that the brother was under the spot light atm. Poor kid

[Vicky.]

Its another one of those cases where I had little interest besides hoping someone gets brought to justice and feeling sorry for the poor kid, but then hear one detail that is odd, then look into it and it becomes even odder. The way the police handled it was a ****ing disgrace yet again, allowing people to trample through the crime scene...not even searching the house immediately. I mean, I know they have to listen to the parents if it looks like a kidnapping but surely they would still secure and search the immediate area anyway just incase?!

[Niamh.]

Its another one of those cases where I had little interest besides hoping someone gets brought to justice and feeling sorry for the poor kid, but then hear one detail that is odd, then look into it and it becomes even odder. The way the police handled it was a ****ing disgrace yet again, allowing people to trample through the crime scene...not even searching the house immediately. I mean, I know they have to listen to the parents if it looks like a kidnapping but surely they would still secure and search the immediate area anyway just incase?!

I can't get into this one too much atm because my latest obsession is with the West memphis 3.....look it up sometime if you need a new project :laugh:

[Vicky.]

I can't get into this one too much atm because my latest obsession is with the West memphis 3.....look it up sometime if you need a new project :laugh:

Oh I have vaguely read about this before and was going to watch that paradise lost documentary about it but totally forgot for some reason. The documentary though..apparently shows actual police footage of dead kids bodies and stuff :S I think I need to try and find a version with that edited out because as fascinating as these cases are, I really do not want to see that and I don't think anyone should really :S

From the tiny bit I read about it, it seems it was just blamed on the 3 lads because they were 'different' and it was all just circumstantial evidence...so yeah. I guess I will go back to this once finished watching these.

[arista]

yes the 6 year old child
shocking death

[Niamh.]

Oh I have vaguely read about this before and was going to watch that paradise lost documentary about it but totally forgot for some reason. The documentary though..apparently shows actual police footage of dead kids bodies and stuff :S I think I need to try and find a version with that edited out because as fascinating as these cases are, I really do not want to see that and I don't think anyone should really :S

From the tiny bit I read about it, it seems it was just blamed on the 3 lads because they were 'different' and it was all just circumstantial evidence...so yeah. I guess I will go back to this once finished watching these.

Yeah i watched Paradise Lost last night and I watched Devils Knot which is a movie about it last week. I've been reading up alot about it and I think that thos guys actually did do it tbh although I've been doing a fair bit of flip flopping on it too

The footage of the bodies is really upsetting, it was a really horrific crime. the scenes in the courtroom too where they're describing what was done to the boys and their parents sitting their listening, I couldn't even begin to imagine the devastation that they must have felt

[Ammi]

...yeah, the same as with Niamh, Vicky...it is very interesting, this case ...and I would be really be up for watching the links but I have another 'obsession' also atm and it would be too much of an overload and hard to absorb both...(I've also been perked in interest with Niamh and CeeCee's 'obsession'/case file..)..so I've been resisting that as well because I know that I'll be hooked....

[Crimson Dynamo]

i thot the brother did it over a row about the pineapple?

[Shaun]

It's weird, I always had the idea in my head that it was her father that killed her (don't tell the_truth!) and I must have confused it with another pretty famous case of a child star or something.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I read about this too. I used to think it was the parents because you have to have some kind of obsession with your child to put her through pageants like that at such a young age, but the brother's demeanour was kind of weird in the new interview.

[Ammi]

..some of the public comments are so harsh, that something about him 'doesn't feel right' just because he smiled in his interview...but the fact that he's never spoken about it in 30 years and now is must surely indicate how nervous he would have been and people often have nervous associated smiling....


4LhalUxTuKA

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Oh I have vaguely read about this before and was going to watch that paradise lost documentary about it but totally forgot for some reason. The documentary though..apparently shows actual police footage of dead kids bodies and stuff :S I think I need to try and find a version with that edited out because as fascinating as these cases are, I really do not want to see that and I don't think anyone should really :S

From the tiny bit I read about it, it seems it was just blamed on the 3 lads because they were 'different' and it was all just circumstantial evidence...so yeah. I guess I will go back to this once finished watching these.

It's what I've been obsessed with for the past few weeks. Niamh and I have been discussing it in "irritating thread"

Those 3 are actually out now and the case is unsolved and it can't be investigated further because of the plea deal they signed.

[Cal.]

I watched the same documentary series too Vicky. I think it's definitely an intruder. The sexual abuse element to it and the fact there was DNA not belonging to her family in her underwear confirms that to me. The pineapple thing wasn't as incriminating to me as it was presented in the documentary - the intruder and Jon Benet were both hidden away in the big house and so the intruder could have easily fed her some pinepapple lying around when no one was in the room if she was complaining about being hungry. It's very sad that the case couldn't be solved because her father accidentally ruined the crime scene when discovering her body and the fact the investigation has been hampered so many times due to stupid people like John Mark Karr making ridiculous statements about how he 'didn't kill her' but 'was with her when she died'.

[Cal.]

Oh I think I watched a different documentary series. ID in the U.K. just aired a three part documentary series about the case.

[Vicky.]

I watched the same documentary series too Vicky. I think it's definitely an intruder. The sexual abuse element to it and the fact there was DNA not belonging to her family in her underwear confirms that to me. The pineapple thing wasn't as incriminating to me as it was presented in the documentary - the intruder and Jon Benet were both hidden away in the big house and so the intruder could have easily fed her some pinepapple lying around when no one was in the room if she was complaining about being hungry. It's very sad that the case couldn't be solved because her father accidentally ruined the crime scene when discovering her body and the fact the investigation has been hampered so many times due to stupid people like John Mark Karr making ridiculous statements about how he 'didn't kill her' but 'was with her when she died'.

I think this may have been a different one.

CBS one kinda debunks the 'DNA evidence'

I cannot get my head around an intruder did it. At all. The whole ransom note thing just makes no sense. Written inside the house, takes like 20 mins to write, plus was a second draft so talking 30 mins at least. After killing a kid, who would stick around 30 minutes to write a fake ransom note? :S

because her father accidentally ruined the crime scene when discovering her body

I wish I had your faith in people. Patsy called friends to come round 2 minutes after ending the 911 call. Friend who discovered the body with John noted he saw the body in a dark room before even switching the light on...etc

[UserSince2005]

The Truth!
Ag3U4ANr9vQ
All makes sense now.

[Vicky.]

OK, watched the dr phil stuff now. **** the people kicking off about the smiling. Its obvious he has a 'natural' smile like I have a natural bitch face. Seemed uncomfortable which is understandable given the circumstances. Still a lot of whats said doesn't add up for me though, for example...Burke says he would definitely have heard if his parents had hit JonBenet with a baseball bat or similar and murdered her. Fair enough...BUT someone did exactly that and given he did NOT hear this...it makes no sense to say he would have heard but only if it was his parents?

I find the footage shot of him as a child disturbing, the lack of any emotion in interviews with police and such just days after his sister died. The tape showing him saying what he thought killed her is very odd...

Intruder makes even less sense with the 'conclusion'. Intruder accidentally murdered her while sexually assaulting her. Fair enough, BUT then why the ridiculous ransom note and such?

But strangely, I think he is telling the truth as he remembers it.

I still think he did it. But I think he wiped it from his memory, as one would with a traumatic experience when very young. The whole pineapple thing...I kind of saw a moment of recollection on his face. Like as if he suddenly remembered something? IDK might be looking too closely at it all.

Also, I am a bit appalled by myself that I found him to be quite likeable. Especially given I think he killed his sister :S

Anyway, off to finish the CBS one now.

[Pete.]

It was the 'Santa' old man that killed her in my opinion

[Vanessa]

It's a story I've always found interesting. And no offence and I know he was just a kid at the time, but his brother gives me the creeps. For me he did it and it was an accidental death.

[Amy Jade]

I really want to watch this, hopefilly it's online or kodi

I felt bad for the son, I've seen footage of him when he was a kid and honestly it is creepy but I think he was probably just a but of a 'side child' to them so maybe he didn't show much emotion because he didn't get attention even when he did.

I suspect the parents :/

[UserSince2005]

shes not dead shes katy perry!!!!! its all one big hoax. this is why katy perry is always so troubled in life. because she knows her parents faked her death to become initiated in the Illuminati!!!

[Vanessa]

shes not dead shes katy perry!!!!! its all one big hoax. this is why katy perry is always so troubled in life. because she knows her parents faked her death to become initiated in the Illuminati!!!

Not sure. I know there are people who do fake their death, but in this case I don't know. :think:

[Jessica.]

:laugh3:

[Smithy]

Jfc Vanessa

[Vicky.]

I have to agree. The Katy Perry theory makes so much more sense than any other. My eyes have been well and truly opened.

[UserSince2005]

I have to agree. The Katy Perry theory makes so much more sense than any other. My eyes have been well and truly opened.


exactly, just look at the chins, that is all the evidence you need. the chins!

and also katy is a natural blonde yet she dies her hair black to cover up the lies of her past.

JonBenets real parents clearly faked her death in exchange for her to become the successful, grammy award winning, Superbowl performing, pop superstar that is Katy Perry.

[Firewire]

JonBenét new album title?

[Vicky.]

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/exclusive-burke-ramsey-files-750-million-defamation-lawsuit-against-cbs-for-perpetrating-fraud-on-public/

Burke trying to sue CBS. This should be interesting...they must have known this when they aired it too but chose to go ahead. And this comes just after news that the 'DNA evidence of an intruder' (that I never believed) is bollocks too. Oh dear..

[LaLaLand]

Burke is he brother right? Who seemed like he was grinning throughout that interview the other month?

Got a weird vibe from him.

[Vicky.]

Yup, that would be him.

[Deirdre]

The CBS documentary on this was so good. They had some of the best crime investigators in the world to trawl through evidence for months. They even recreated the Ramsay's basement in order to reenact someone crawling through (which they found was not possible). It was fascinating to see such in depth analysis of a case and the conclusion they came to based on all the evidence (I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it).
But based on how good that documentary was, I'm willing to believe their theory.

[Vanessa]

I watched a documentary about this case and the Ramseys clearly lied. Maybe it was an accident and they covered it up? John Benet brother was not asleep when Patsy called the police. They were all awake.

[Kizzy]

I feel sorry for her brother, I think he's been a scapegoat here.

[Vanessa]

I feel sorry for her brother, I think he's been a scapegoat here.

I don't know. He always strikes me as a bit odd. But he was just a child at the time. Poor guy.

[Vicky.]

I watched a documentary about this case and the Ramseys clearly lied. Maybe it was an accident and they covered it up? John Benet brother was not asleep when Patsy called the police. They were all awake. How could it be an accident? The original head blow could have been an accident in as much as someone hit her harder than they meant to...but the strangulation afterwards? You cannot accidentally fracture someones skull then accidentally strange them 2 hours later tbh

I feel sorry for her brother, I think he's been a scapegoat here.
I don't think so tbh, most people suspected the mother and father for a very long time until additional details became known. The Dr Phil episode Burke himself said he was downstairs after everyone was in bed which kinda blows the intruder theory way out.. I don't know why he gave the interview, but it did him no favours at all and made a lot of people suspect him.

The mother definitely had something to do with it all as she wrote the ransom note..the rest..I am not sure on but there was no intruder that night. Poor girl.

Edited to add. I do actually feel sorry for burke too..he was a ****ed up kid because of his parents...

[Vanessa]

How could it be an accident? The original head blow could have been an accident in as much as someone hit her harder than they meant to...but the strangulation afterwards? You cannot accidentally fracture someones skull then accidentally strange them 2 hours later tbh


I don't think so tbh, most people suspected the mother and father for a very long time until additional details became known. The Dr Phil episode Burke himself said he was downstairs after everyone was in bed which kinda blows the intruder theory way out.. I don't know why he gave the interview, but it did him no favours at all and made a lot of people suspect him.

The mother definitely had something to do with it all as she wrote the ransom note..the rest..I am not sure on but there was no intruder that night. Poor girl.

Edited to add. I do actually feel sorry for burke too..he was a ****ed up kid because of his parents...

One of the theories going round is that her brother killed her during an argument. And the parents helped to cover it up. I think this is pretty much what happened.

[Vicky.]

One of the theories going round is that her brother killed her during an argument. And the parents helped to cover it up. I think this is pretty much what happened.

Ohh right. Yes this makes sense. I thought you meant the whole thing was an accident

[Vanessa]

Ohh right. Yes this makes sense. I thought you meant the whole thing was an accident

I just don't think it was premeditated. He probably lost his temper and hit her with the torch.

[Vicky.]

I just don't think it was premeditated. He probably lost his temper and hit her with the torch.

Yes this is what I think too. I don't think he is an evil monster or anything, and I imagine he might have blocked this from his memory as much as one can too.; The parents are the evil ones in this. But I can kinda understand trying to protect your remaining child, but the brutality involved in the staging..they were sick.

[Vanessa]

Yes this is what I think too. I don't think he is an evil monster or anything, and I imagine he might have blocked this from his memory as much as one can too.; The parents are the evil ones in this. But I can kinda understand trying to protect your remaining child, but the brutality involved in the staging..they were sick.

Yes, the parents should have been honest from the beginning. The cover up only made things worse.

[Saph]

250 million? is he having a laugh... get over it hun

[Kizzy]

He was interrogated by the police, at 9 had he had any involvement he would have cracked surely?

[Vanessa]

He was interrogated by the police, at 9 had he had any involvement he would have cracked surely?

Maybe he doesn't remember it? Sometimes the mind can block out traumatic events.

[Kizzy]

Well yes, I guess it could have. One thing puzzles me (just call me columbo) how come if he was in bed when his mother came in looking for her why was he still in bed when the police came?... Why didn't he help go look? :/

[Vicky.]

He was interrogated by the police, at 9 had he had any involvement he would have cracked surely?He wasn't really interrogated..questioned yeah. Have you seen the police tapes that were shown on CBS? Very strange..

Also the grand jury who viewed all of the evidence (plus had Burke testify)..recommended for the parents to be done for endangering the childs life and a coverup for someone else. Why would they coverup the crime for an intruder?

If only the Ramseys had known that Burke was like a month too young to be sentenced for murder in that state..then an abumlance may have been called and the childs life saved, given it wasn't the hit on the head that killed her but the strangulation hours afterwards...

Well yes, I guess it could have. One thing puzzles me (just call me columbo) how come if he was in bed when his mother came in looking for her why was he still in bed when the police came?... Why didn't he help go look? :/

Because by that stage he had been sent to his room and told not to come out. I expect.

[Kizzy]

It mentions the police questioning in the news item and it's said the mum was annoyed he'd been questioned, it could've been as she was terrified he'd slip up and it's a miracle he didn't I guess, but like Vanessa said if he was traumatised he might have shut it out?
I'll have a look at the tapes tomorrow, it's interesting to hear the guy say that the lack of social norms may be a result of not being socialised following the death of his sister, however I'd have said most kids have the ability to read and react to social cues well before the age of 9, so you would've thought that could be an indication he had communication problems before then?...

[Vicky.]

Watch the CBS documentary if you get a chance, it really is fantastic. Though it does seem they went into it with a 'Burke did it' attitude rather than explored every possibility like claimed.

[Kizzy]

Watching it now, initial reaction? The call handler was gagged... they were rich = payoff.

Added... hmm they said it wouldn't take much force but the poor kid they got to recreate it (#psychedamage :/) hit that scull in a wig with lots of force!

Part 2... hang on how come this is the first mention of a stun gun and sexual assault?....

[Morgan.]

Watch the CBS documentary if you get a chance, it really is fantastic. Though it does seem they went into it with a 'Burke did it' attitude rather than explored every possibility like claimed.

It was really good, I watched it yesterday evening.

[Vanessa]

I don't know if it's the same documentary I watched on TV, but it was fascinating. They looked at all the evidence, then let the audience draw their own conclusions. But it was pretty much pointing at her brother Burke, even if they didn't say it.

[Kizzy]

It ended very oddly, well it could have been Burke and who could blame them for covering it up?... oh, and the DNA in her knicks could have come from the guy who packaged them in Taiwan... Eh?
That lad had been coached never to leave his room when the 'circle of friends' were about, he knows more than he's letting on. When his dad dies we might get the truth.

[Niamh.]

Sorry for the years late bump, just started listening to a true crime Podcast and they spent a lot of time on this one, it's the first time I listened to all the details of this case. It's certainly bizarre, I don't actually think any of the family were involved though

[Niamh.]

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/exclusive-burke-ramsey-files-750-million-defamation-lawsuit-against-cbs-for-perpetrating-fraud-on-public/

Burke trying to sue CBS. This should be interesting...they must have known this when they aired it too but chose to go ahead. And this comes just after news that the 'DNA evidence of an intruder' (that I never believed) is bollocks too. Oh dear..

They're still saying they have 3rd party DNA in the Netflix doc

[Niamh.]

The CBS documentary on this was so good. They had some of the best crime investigators in the world to trawl through evidence for months. They even recreated the Ramsay's basement in order to reenact someone crawling through (which they found was not possible). It was fascinating to see such in depth analysis of a case and the conclusion they came to based on all the evidence (I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it).
But based on how good that documentary was, I'm willing to believe their theory.

Vicky you watched that Documentary, does this person mean crawling through the window to get into the basement from the outside? Because they literally showed that Detective Smit(?) doing it in the actual basement with relative ease and he was no spring chicken either

[Vicky.]

I don't remember now, gunna try and rewatch this

[Niamh.]

I don't remember now, gunna try and rewatch this

I think I'll try and find the CBS doc, sounds like that and the Netflix one has conflicting "evidence" though

[arista]

Her Dad was on CNN HD USA
at the weekend

He agrees with the FBI Profile, they made.

Tragic.


Short Clip 1mins 42
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/07/us/video/jonbenet-ramsey-netflix-docuseries-smerconish-father-intv-digvid

[Niamh.]

Her Dad was on CNN HD USA
at the weekend

He agrees with the FBI Profile, they made.

Tragic still no sign of her


Short Clip 1mins 42
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/07/us/video/jonbenet-ramsey-netflix-docuseries-smerconish-father-intv-digvid

? She's dead not missing, they found her body the same day in the basement of their house

[arista]

? She's dead not missing, they found her body the same day in the basement of their house


Sorry Mixed
up the case.

[Ammi]

I don't remember now, gunna try and rewatch this

…yeah, I might try to rewatch this again as well because I can’t recall why the brother became such a suspect…and looking back now in the other documentary, he was such a physically small and slight boy to have been thought to commit such a ‘forceful’/brutal crime…I also don’t quite understand the bit about the pineapple because if JonBenet did take some and he reacted by hitting her with the torchlight…?…then she would have been dead from that blow and she wasn’t…she was fully conscious through the horrific torture and abuse…I may try to rewatch it at some point, as you say…but not straight away because it’s such a gruelling and harrowing crime, I don’t want to read all of the details again right now…

[Vicky.]

Vicky you watched that Documentary, does this person mean crawling through the window to get into the basement from the outside? Because they literally showed that Detective Smit(?) doing it in the actual basement with relative ease and he was no spring chicken either

Rewatching part2 now and the crime scene video showed a large spiderweb on the corner of the window..which would have been broken if someone had climbed in or out. So it wasn't that it couldn't be done, it was that the window would have been different