Could Trump or Clinton be a great leader?

[Withano]

Or are you supporting them because they're slightly less worse than the other?

[Withano]

I think Trump would be the worst in a long time but I'd put H.Clinton above Bush, Bush and B.Clinton

[bots]

As far back as I can remember, the crop of candidates up for president has always been the worst yet, and I am talking decades here. People gain comfort from familiarity, thats why Bill left with a 70% approval rating, having just lied to the American people :laugh:

When Reagan got elected, everyone was saying that's it, nuclear devastation is here, but, he ended up changing the whole game for the better. Who predicted that prior to his election:shrug: People don't even need to have good intentions or bad intentions, things have a life of their own, that is much bigger than one person or even one country.

The simple reality is that if they are not good, they will be out on their ear in 4 years, so it really doesn't matter, and its impossible to judge who would be better or worse

[kirklancaster]

As far back as I can remember, the crop of candidates up for president has always been the worst yet, and I am talking decades here. People gain comfort from familiarity, thats why Bill left with a 70% approval rating, having just lied to the American people :laugh:

When Reagan got elected, everyone was saying that's it, nuclear devastation is here, but, he ended up changing the whole game for the better. Who predicted that prior to his election:shrug: People don't even need to have good intentions or bad intentions, things have a life of their own, that is much bigger than one person or even one country.

The simple reality is that if they are not good, they will be out on their ear in 4 years, so it really doesn't matter, and its impossible to judge who would be better or worse

:clap1::clap1::clap1: This whole; "Trump/Hilary will be a terrible President, Trump/Hilary will be a great President is ridiculous.

Clinton might lie her head off and be deceitful as hell but turn out to be THE best President the States have ever seen.

Trump could be the most misogynistic and promiscuous President there's ever been and have 'interns' running for their chastity, but HE could STILL turn out to be THE best President that the States have ever had.

Or either could be dreadful and be impeached within 2 years - NO ONE knows.

[Withano]

People gain comfort from familiarity, thats why Bill left with a 70% approval rating, having just lied to the American people :laugh:



Obviously thats a bit of a jump

[Withano]

:clap1::clap1::clap1: This whole; "Trump/Hilary will be a terrible President, Trump/Hilary will be a great President is ridiculous.



Have you ever voted in an election? Would seem a bit silly to vote when you don't even believe in your own ability to forcast it a little, maybe youre not thinking it through enough.

[bots]

Obviously thats a bit of a jump

whats the jump? The FACT that he had a 70% approval rating or the FACT that he got found out to by lying to the American people.

[Withano]

whats the jump? The FACT that he had a 70% approval rating or the FACT that he got found out to by lying to the American people.

You claiming his 70% approval is entirely to do with people enjoying fimiliarity. No 2nd or 3rd component, you have the answer in two words... Bit of a jump.

[bots]

You claiming his 70% approval is entirely to do with people enjoying fimiliarity. No 2nd or 3rd component, you have the answer in two words... Bit of a jump.

i disagree, if after one month in office, Bill had been caught lying with his pants down, he would have been out on his ear. 8 years of familiarity saved him, to suggest otherwise is misguided to say the least.

[Withano]

i disagree, if after one month in office, Bill had been caught lying with his pants down, he would have been out on his ear. 8 years of familiarity saved him, to suggest otherwise is misguided to say the least.

Critical thought isnt your strength. There may be a correlation with length in office and approval rating, but correlation alone is rarely causative.

[kirklancaster]

Have you ever voted in an election? Would seem a bit silly to vote when you don't even believe in your own ability to forcast it a little, maybe youre not thinking it through enough.

I have probably voted in more elections than any other member of this forum, thank you.

Your phrases; 'ability to forecast' and 'thinking it through' are a little vague, but let us examine what you may mean by them, shall we:

By 'ability to forecast', do you mean, 'Making a calculated guess based upon....

a) Political track records of the Presidential Candidates?

Trump has none, and Clinton's is less than inspirational.

Or perhaps you mean;

b) The political statements and promises issuing forth from both Candidates mouths whilst on the Campaign trail?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Or perhaps you mean;

c) The 'Believability' and 'Credibility' factors?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Oh... I see, NOW all we are left with are our own personal prejudices. Who we LIKE as a PERSON and who we DON'T like as a person.

Get voting.

[Withano]

I have probably voted in more elections than any other member of this forum, thank you.

Your phrases; 'ability to forecast' and 'thinking it through' are a little vague, but let us examine what you may mean by them, shall we:

By 'ability to forecast', do you mean, 'Making a calculated guess based upon....

a) Political track records of the Presidential Candidates?

Trump has none, and Clinton's is less than inspirational.

Or perhaps you mean;

b) The political statements and promises issuing forth from both Candidates mouths whilst on the Campaign trail?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Or perhaps you mean;

c) The 'Believability' and 'Credibility' factors?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Oh... I see, NOW all we are left with are our own personal prejudices. Who we LIKE as a PERSON and who we DON'T like as a person.

Get voting.

So you think its completely irrational for anybody to forecast it themselves simply because you dont share the same ability, theres a world outside your forehead.

[bots]

Critical thought isnt your strength. There may be a correlation with length in office and approval rating, but correlation alone is rarely causative.

before you start insulting other forum members, it would be a good idea to look to your own posts. I have an exemplary education, followed up by a successful working career spanning 30+ years. Have you?

[arista]

Trump the Outsider
would be better than Corrupt Clinton

[kirklancaster]

So you think its completely irrational for anybody to forecast it themselves simply because you dont share the same ability, theres a world outside your forehead.

If you REALLY want to start with the personal insults - I'll be your Huckleberry.

[Jamie89]

As far back as I can remember, the crop of candidates up for president has always been the worst yet, and I am talking decades here. People gain comfort from familiarity, thats why Bill left with a 70% approval rating, having just lied to the American people :laugh:

When Reagan got elected, everyone was saying that's it, nuclear devastation is here, but, he ended up changing the whole game for the better. Who predicted that prior to his election:shrug: People don't even need to have good intentions or bad intentions, things have a life of their own, that is much bigger than one person or even one country.

The simple reality is that if they are not good, they will be out on their ear in 4 years, so it really doesn't matter, and its impossible to judge who would be better or worse

:clap1::clap1::clap1: This whole; "Trump/Hilary will be a terrible President, Trump/Hilary will be a great President is ridiculous.

Clinton might lie her head off and be deceitful as hell but turn out to be THE best President the States have ever seen.

Trump could be the most misogynistic and promiscuous President there's ever been and have 'interns' running for their chastity, but HE could STILL turn out to be THE best President that the States have ever had.

Or either could be dreadful and be impeached within 2 years - NO ONE knows.

Yeah I agree with both of these posts in that either could be good or bad, there's always a chance that they might surprise us. Going off what I imagine they'll be like though I voted Trump as one of the worst and Hillary as average. I was torn on the Hillary one because I'm still really unsure of her and I have doubts about her that I can't reconcile, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and said average anyway. She's probably clever enough not to repeat certain mistakes in office, I don't think she'd do anything that would risk her being a 'worst' president and will probably play things safe for the most part and just try and keep the status quo, and she probably has enough experience in the political game to prevent her from being seen as completely awful. I don't have any faith in Trump at all though (but like bots said the presidency is sometimes bigger than the person... ie. imo he could be a good president but only despite himself, not because of him :laugh: )

[kirklancaster]

Yeah I agree with both of these posts in that either could be good or bad, there's always a chance that they might surprise us. Going off what I imagine they'll be like though I voted Trump as one of the worst and Hillary as average. I was torn on the Hillary one because I'm still really unsure of her and I have doubts about her that I can't reconcile, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and said average anyway. She's probably clever enough not to repeat certain mistakes in office, I don't think she'd do anything that would risk her being a 'worst' president and will probably play things safe for the most part and just try and keep the status quo, and she probably has enough experience in the political game to prevent her from being seen as completely awful. I don't have any faith in Trump at all though (but like bots said the presidency is sometimes bigger than the person... ie. imo he could be a good president but only despite himself, not because of him :laugh: )

Another great balanced post Jamie.

I just genuinely hope that whoever does become President DOES turn out to be a good one.

I can hope can't I? :laugh:

[Johnnyuk123]

Trump will be a great leader! :)

[Tom4784]

Clinton will do until a better candidate comes along.

Trump will be considered the worst Presidential Nominee in history when this is all over so his reign could only be awful. No leadership qualities, no sense of diplomacy, repugnant, hateful and not qualified for the position of President.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ronald Reagan

go google him

[Withano]

before you start insulting other forum members, it would be a good idea to look to your own posts. I have an exemplary education, followed up by a successful working career spanning 30+ years. Have you?

Your brags are irrelevant, this is more about you ignoring all other reasons for a 70% approval rating because you think you can explain it in 2 words. Use your exemplary education to think about it critcally and realise its a bit of a jump.

[reece(:]

Trump would be the worst ever, it'd be dangerous giving him presidency since he's a psycho.

Hillary would be nowhere near the best, but she could keep things plain sailing until the next run.

[Withano]

Trump the Outsider
would be better than Corrupt Clinton

Better could still mean terrible, that was the question.. Do you think he'd be good, or just better than Clinton?

[the truth]

Trump would be a surprisingly good president...a man who would get things done. hed delegate a lot of work but hes a master at selecting the best talent and delegation...delegation is the key to running a massive operation and he has run massive operations for 40 years

shame its all been sidetracked with the usual lurid kiss and tell lies....he pinched my botton 30 years ago allegedly etc some people call that assault now , what a joke. who knows what happened, it someone feels its assault to go the cops , put up or shut up

meanwhile hes been right on trade , tariffs, white collar jobs, keeping the industries alive, hes right to tighten the border control, hes right on nafta , right on ttip right on the $20 trillion debt and hes half right on obamacare which it seems has failed to get the premiums down , right on ISIS to the degree that we have in effect armed isis with our own wepaons and allowed them the oil to finance their reign of terror ...with hilarys open borders that makes the threat infinitely worse...he was right on brexit, right on the iraq war, right on syria, right on the fact iran and russia are in fact fighting ISIS better than we are, right om keeping social security levels as they are, right to try and withdraw from the middle east, right to expose endless government waste

hilary is the one playing the dirty game of endlessly going on about ex girlfriends and endlessly playing the divisive feminist card...she voted to get killed over half a million innocent women in iraq, how feminist is that?

[MB.]

he pinched my botton 30 years ago allegedly etc some people call that assault now , what a joke

um

[Denver]

they will both be terrible and trump will use it as a excuse to abuse more women

[the truth]

I really really really do believe she is evil
Trump is the wolf , he is what he is
shes the wolf in sheeps clothing
the biggest disaster of all here is the fact his idiotic personal behaviour over the yrs is going to allow her to take over the superpower
as for those who think im sexist on here...firstly Im not. secondly Im delighted teresa may is in charge and I thought thatcher on issues like europe was great...I just take every individual on merit....clinton is dreadful her record in government is appalling, shes been there for many years and created absolute chaos. No wonder shes avoiding the policies and issues of substance to talk and kiss and tell gossip.

[Northern Monkey]

Both awful however i think Trump would be less lethal.Hilary will kill alot of people imo.There is a higher chance of her dragging us into a very dangerous conflict.Specially if she goes through with her insane plans in Syria.She's crazy.She was against gay marriage until she did a miraculous u-turn when she saw the Whitehouse in sight and her "we came,we saw,we killed him" quote whilst laughing shows her lack of empathy for human life.

[kirklancaster]

Your brags are irrelevant, this is more about you ignoring all other reasons for a 70% approval rating because you think you can explain it in 2 words. Use your exemplary education to think about it critcally and realise its a bit of a jump.

There REALLY is no need for this Withano. It is one of the traits on TIBB which really pisses me off;

Someone denigrates one's intellect and knowledge, or questions one's qualifications to express a certain viewpoint - either directly or by allusion - and when they receive a response which states the qualifications, or which details just why one is intelligent and knowledgeable, they are then met with yet more insult, and accusations of boasting and having huge egos.

It has happened to me numerous times, but what other way is there of responding than to list the qualities and qualifications which rebut the original slights?

[Crimson Dynamo]

the irony in this thread

a trump hater who hates trump for the way he behaves insulting members right and left for disagreeing with her

brilliant

[Withano]

There REALLY is no need for this Withano. It is one of the traits on TIBB which really pisses me off;

Someone denigrates one's intellect and knowledge, or questions one's qualifications to express a certain viewpoint - either directly or by allusion - and when they receive a response which states the qualifications, or which details just why one is intelligent and knowledgeable, they are then met with yet more insult, and accusations of boasting and having huge egos.

It has happened to me numerous times, but what other way is there of responding than to list the qualities and qualifications which rebut the original slights?

Reread it, cos I done the opposite.

[Ammi]

...(looking at them both at face value without them actually doing the job obviously...)....I would say no, neither of them could be 'great'..I think this is more about least damaging with such candidates...with the rise of Trumpism, it seems to be largely to do with 'change' brought on and felt because of frustrations/fears/general unsettlement felt by people...Trump is seen as the person who will bring about change../the breaking off from 'establishment' and the breaking free....but how is taking people back decades in his stance on females and how he regards them, 'change'...how is closing a country down with walls, 'change'...building walls and moats around castles is a bit old hat and back in the day....change means progression and he represents the very opposite to progression but rather, representing regression...is that the 'new world'..?...I don't think that Hilary can be great because she's the very opposite and the establishment that a change is needed from...I personally feel that she's too self serving in her own career to bring about anything 'great'...but I do think she'll be less damaging so may be an ok President until the USA actually have real candidates for for purpose etc...and drive and ambition can achieve as well in progression because 'serving the people', serves her own purpose as well...

[Maru]

Why did OP open a thread, only to disregard the straight answers and then proceed to insult members who answer in ways he doesn't agree with? I see that it's an attempt to challenge those posters, but they gave sufficient enough replies to explain their own POV/position(s)... why make petty remarks?

To answer the actual question, Trump will be the worst... my thoughts all over the forum, so no point to bringing it up

Clinton has the possibility to to be an average president and if she can stop her polarizing secret habits, a slight potential to be a great one...

I was encouraged to vote for her when I read about comments she made in leaked audio about considering herself center-left/center-right... still, she's far too secretive with her actual political leanings for me to feel confident enough she fits the definition of center anything... I think she is actually fairly center after reading/watching things on her backstory, but some of her security decisions don't support that and her inability to be honest to voter's on the campaign trail about her most staunchest leanings make it difficult for me to confirm whether or not I could justify voting for her (so I will be writing in)

Anyway, it is my mild hope based on that she may be turn out to be an OK president... but at the same time, I'm not going to hold my breath that it will end the political stagnation so easily. That will be a tough task to tackle for most anyone who would win.

Still, her ability to be professional and treat issues and voters sensitively may win her a good legacy, but she needs to stop that behind the scenes ****. It'll be a non-starter in this day and age of transparency and constant digital leaks.

I do agree a great deal with kirk/bitontheslides posts, though I have to take a little bit of umbrage with the statement about Clinton's 70% approval rating... a vast majority of people here have stated that having mistresses on the side as not politically relevant. Americans in general don't really care all that much if a political has a mistress on the side, as that's largely considered a personal matter not even worth the media sensation that comes from it. The witch-hunt was primarily Republican driven only as a means to balance out/mitigate Clinton's ridiculous popularity... many many many people still nostalgically refer back to his president as a golden age for American political process and a better quality of life. I remember that vividly because I'm a generation that benefited the most from that time period, when our national self-esteem was at it's highest and our path towards progress was the most clear. Then came 911, that all changed and since then everyday I'm reminded that things are different now.

As for familiarity, I don't think that to do as much with it as much as people can only draw their opinions from recent experiences... things have changed so dramatically for the world in the past 10, 20, 50, hell 100 years... that our idea and perceptions would make/break a presidency has had to constantly adjust to accommodate what we've learned as nation. If there's one thing you can say about Americans, we value our opinions and are very proud of our personal perceptions irregardless of our walk of life. If we sense even a hint of some manipulation/deception in a candidate, it makes us question/lower our hopes for their ability to be great in their position, because the last thing an American wants to be made a fool of on is their strong opinion... we are a very proud people in that manner, for better or worse

I have probably voted in more elections than any other member of this forum, thank you.

Your phrases; 'ability to forecast' and 'thinking it through' are a little vague, but let us examine what you may mean by them, shall we:

By 'ability to forecast', do you mean, 'Making a calculated guess based upon....

a) Political track records of the Presidential Candidates?

Trump has none, and Clinton's is less than inspirational.

Or perhaps you mean;

b) The political statements and promises issuing forth from both Candidates mouths whilst on the Campaign trail?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Or perhaps you mean;

c) The 'Believability' and 'Credibility' factors?

Trump is a PROVEN liar and Clinton is a PROVEN liar.

Oh... I see, NOW all we are left with are our own personal prejudices. Who we LIKE as a PERSON and who we DON'T like as a person.

Get voting.

BTW, excellent rebuttal kirk :clap1:

[Withano]

Why did OP open a thread, only to disregard the straight answers and then proceed to insult members who answer in ways he doesn't agree with? I see that it's an attempt to challenge those posters, but they gave sufficient enough replies to explain their own POV/position(s)... why make petty remarks?

To answer the actual question, Trump will be the worst... my thoughts all over the forum, so no point to bringing it up

Clinton has the possibility to to be an average president and if she can stop her polarizing secret habits, a slight potential to be a great one...

I was encouraged to vote for her when I read about comments she made in leaked audio about considering herself center-left/center-right... still, she's far too secretive with her actual political leanings for me to feel confident enough she fits the definition of center anything... I think she is actually fairly center after reading/watching things on her backstory, but some of her security decisions don't support that and her inability to be honest to voter's on the campaign trail about her most staunchest leanings make it difficult for me to confirm whether or not I could justify voting for her (so I will be writing in)

Anyway, it is my mild hope based on that she may be turn out to be an OK president... but at the same time, I'm not going to hold my breath that it will end the political stagnation so easily. That will be a tough task to tackle for most anyone who would win.

Still, her ability to be professional and treat issues and voters sensitively may win her a good legacy, but she needs to stop that behind the scenes ****. It'll be a non-starter in this day and age of transparency and constant digital leaks.

I do agree a great deal with kirk/bitontheslides posts, though I have to take a little bit of umbrage with the statement about Clinton's 70% approval rating... a vast majority of people here have stated that having mistresses on the side as not politically relevant. Americans in general don't really care all that much if a political has a mistress on the side, as that's largely considered a personal matter not even worth the media sensation that comes from it. The witch-hunt was primarily Republican driven only as a means to balance out/mitigate Clinton's ridiculous popularity... many many many people still nostalgically refer back to his president as a golden age for American political process and a better quality of life. I remember that vividly because I'm a generation that benefited the most from that time period, when our national self-esteem was at it's highest and our path towards progress was the most clear. Then came 911, that all changed and have since then everyday I'm reminded that things are different now.

As for familiarity, I don't think that to do as much with it as much as people can only draw their opinions from recent experiences... things have changed so dramatically for the world in the past 10, 20, 50, hell 100 years... that our idea and perceptions would make/break a presidency has had to constantly adjust with it as well consider what we've learned as nation. If there's one thing you can say about Americans, we value our opinions and are very proud of our personal perceptions irregardless of our walk of life. If we sense even a hint of some manipulation/deception in a candidate, it makes us question/lower our hopes for their ability to be great in their position, because the last thing an American wants to be made a fool of on is their strong opinion... we are a very proud people in that manner, for better or worse



BTW, excellent rebuttal kirk :clap1:

One post was completely off-topic, the other made the claim that its impossible to answer this question, which is obviously untrue cos everybody bar that guy managed to.
I was incredibly interested in all other responses in the thread and I didnt feel the need to praise them all in seperate posts because thats weird. I was also interested in the poll results which is the main reason I opened the thread.
Me replying to the off-topic or the inaccurate posts doesn't take away from that.

[Maru]

One post was completely off-topic, the other made the claim that its impossible to answer this question, which is obviously untrue cos everybody bar that guy managed to.
I was incredibly interested in all other responses in the thread and I didnt feel the need to praise them all in seperate posts because thats weird. I was also interested in the poll results which is the main reason I opened the thread.
Me replying to the off-topic or the inaccurate posts doesn't take away from that.

I understand that, but they explained their views quite clearly when you pressed them and why it effects the answer to your question. What's that saying exactly, you can choose to avoid making a decision or not, but either way you've made a decision...

I agree with kirk's response, it's very difficult to fully evaluate these candidates (especially Trump) because there is a lot of secrecy behind both their dealings and inner-working. I answered the thread as best as I could, but frankly a lot of Americans are at a loss which candidate to vote for this election.

[bots]

I do agree a great deal with kirk/bitontheslides posts, though I have to take a little bit of umbrage with the statement about Clinton's 70% approval rating... a vast majority of people here have stated that having mistresses on the side as not politically relevant. Americans in general don't really care all that much if a political has a mistress on the side, as that's largely considered a personal matter not even worth the media sensation that comes from it. The witch-hunt was primarily Republican driven only as a means to balance out/mitigate Clinton's ridiculous popularity... many many many people still nostalgically refer back to his president as a golden age for American political process and a better quality of life. I remember that vividly because I'm a generation that benefited the most from that time period, when our national self-esteem was at it's highest and our path towards progress was the most clear. Then came 911, that all changed and since then everyday I'm reminded that things are different now.



I have to take a little bit of umbrage with you too Maru :smug:

You are perfectly correct about people not caring about an affair, but it was much more than an affair, it was a protracted deception of the American people that culminated in his lying under oath. Which backs up my point that people don't take to new, they prefer familiarity ... perfectly relevant to the question asked I might add

[EspeonBB]

Trump would be a huge disaster. I don't think he has any idea what he's doing

Clinton would just keep things the same, and although things need to change it'll do for now

[Maru]

I have to take a little bit of umbrage with you too Maru :smug:

You are perfectly correct about people not caring about an affair, but it was much more than an affair, it was a protracted deception of the American people that culminated in his lying under oath. Which backs up my point that people don't take to new, they prefer familiarity ... perfectly relevant to the question asked I might add

Oh don't take me wrong, that's a perfectly valid position. However, the negative perception works both ways with the public. Clinton didn't want it getting it out, but Republicans obsession with it in lue of other more important issues that needed to get pushed through Congress at the time left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Simplifying it to being just down to voting and approving of someone based on familiarity is negating a lot of the issues that were important in those times.

Keep in mind, the poll doesn't ask, do you approve strongly.. it's a yes/no question, so they could just be "fine" with him as president. Which is perfectly valid too, he represented the nation beautifully imo.

[Brother Leon]

Both spell trouble for the future.

[kirklancaster]

Why did OP open a thread, only to disregard the straight answers and then proceed to insult members who answer in ways he doesn't agree with? I see that it's an attempt to challenge those posters, but they gave sufficient enough replies to explain their own POV/position(s)... why make petty remarks?

To answer the actual question, Trump will be the worst... my thoughts all over the forum, so no point to bringing it up

Clinton has the possibility to to be an average president and if she can stop her polarizing secret habits, a slight potential to be a great one...

I was encouraged to vote for her when I read about comments she made in leaked audio about considering herself center-left/center-right... still, she's far too secretive with her actual political leanings for me to feel confident enough she fits the definition of center anything... I think she is actually fairly center after reading/watching things on her backstory, but some of her security decisions don't support that and her inability to be honest to voter's on the campaign trail about her most staunchest leanings make it difficult for me to confirm whether or not I could justify voting for her (so I will be writing in)

Anyway, it is my mild hope based on that she may be turn out to be an OK president... but at the same time, I'm not going to hold my breath that it will end the political stagnation so easily. That will be a tough task to tackle for most anyone who would win.

Still, her ability to be professional and treat issues and voters sensitively may win her a good legacy, but she needs to stop that behind the scenes ****. It'll be a non-starter in this day and age of transparency and constant digital leaks.

I do agree a great deal with kirk/bitontheslides posts, though I have to take a little bit of umbrage with the statement about Clinton's 70% approval rating... a vast majority of people here have stated that having mistresses on the side as not politically relevant. Americans in general don't really care all that much if a political has a mistress on the side, as that's largely considered a personal matter not even worth the media sensation that comes from it. The witch-hunt was primarily Republican driven only as a means to balance out/mitigate Clinton's ridiculous popularity... many many many people still nostalgically refer back to his president as a golden age for American political process and a better quality of life. I remember that vividly because I'm a generation that benefited the most from that time period, when our national self-esteem was at it's highest and our path towards progress was the most clear. Then came 911, that all changed and since then everyday I'm reminded that things are different now.

As for familiarity, I don't think that to do as much with it as much as people can only draw their opinions from recent experiences... things have changed so dramatically for the world in the past 10, 20, 50, hell 100 years... that our idea and perceptions would make/break a presidency has had to constantly adjust to accommodate what we've learned as nation. If there's one thing you can say about Americans, we value our opinions and are very proud of our personal perceptions irregardless of our walk of life. If we sense even a hint of some manipulation/deception in a candidate, it makes us question/lower our hopes for their ability to be great in their position, because the last thing an American wants to be made a fool of on is their strong opinion... we are a very proud people in that manner, for better or worse



BTW, excellent rebuttal kirk :clap1:


Another great post, and Thank You Maru for the compliment.

[kirklancaster]

I get the impression that some people think that if Trump does get elected, he will be in complete and splendid isolation and have total autonomy on all policy and decision making.

This is just not the case.

No matter how inexperienced Trump is - or how much of a xenophobe or sexist clown he may be as some allege - he will be advised by vastly more experienced and more moderate minds than his, and prevented from indulging himself and imposing any personal prejudices he may have into policies.

It is, of course, the same for Clinton.

[Tom4784]

I'd rather go with the more experienced devil that I already know than a raving racist sexual predator.

[rk3388]

Or either could be dreadful and be impeached within 2 years - NO ONE knows.

I disagree. With Trump's disastrous policies he is no way going to be one of the best presidents. Cutting taxes for the 1% by over half what they're paying, prioritizing more oil development over renewable energy sources, Not taking in Syrian refugees (He should look at how many Canada has brought in and how it has been a non-issue thus far) etc. etc. I could literally go on.

his presidency would be disastrous and I KNOW that.

[bots]

I disagree. With Trump's disastrous policies he is no way going to be one of the best presidents. Cutting taxes for the 1% by over half what they're paying, prioritizing more oil development over renewable energy sources, Not taking in Syrian refugees (He should look at how many Canada has brought in and how it has been a non-issue thus far) etc. etc. I could literally go on.

his presidency would be disastrous and I KNOW that.

and your reasons for saying that are remarkably focussing on policy .... which is fantastic, and has 100% validity given your own political leanings. Others are perfectly entitled to disagree, but It's so nice to see real policies being referenced.

[Kizzy]

Eminem thinks not..
It’s no secret: there are a huge number of pop-culture icons who really dislike Donald Trump and never want him to become President of the United States.

Robert De Niro recently unleashed a tirade of damning words against the Republican presidential candidate; the likes of Robert Downey Jr, Scarlett Johansson, and Mark Ruffalo appeared in Joss Whedon’s anti-Trump video; even Will.i.am released a song about his derogatory comments about women.


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/eminem-donald-trump-campaign-speech-single-lyrics-in-full-a7371611.html?cmpid=facebook-post

[Kizzy]

Or Michael Moore...

Somehow, Michael Moore - director of such controversial documentaries as Fahrenheit 9/11, Bowling for Columbine, and Sicko - managed to keep his latest project almost completely under wraps until the first screening.

Michael Moore in TrumpLand was unveiled to the public last night during a screening at New York City’s IFC Centre, kickstarting its week-long run at the Los Angeles' Laemmle Town Center 5 in Encino.

The 73-minute live performance film sees the Oscar-winning director speak about the two candidates on stage in Ohio, a county that has four times as many Trump supporters as Clinton.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/michael-moore-in-trumpland-secret-new-film-documentary-a7368936.html

[Mokka]

Eminem thinks not..
It’s no secret: there are a huge number of pop-culture icons who really dislike Donald Trump and never want him to become President of the United States.

Robert De Niro recently unleashed a tirade of damning words against the Republican presidential candidate; the likes of Robert Downey Jr, Scarlett Johansson, and Mark Ruffalo appeared in Joss Whedon’s anti-Trump video; even Will.i.am released a song about his derogatory comments about women.


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/eminem-donald-trump-campaign-speech-single-lyrics-in-full-a7371611.html?cmpid=facebook-post

:laugh3:
You can't make that one up.... mess

[the truth]

trump defeats her on nearly every issue