View Full Version : The Calais "child" migrants?
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 12:01 PM
What do yiou make of these rather old "children" arriving in Britain?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/10/397C2AC200000578-3854888-image-a-9_1476955558330.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-m-19_1476923338141.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-m-21_1476923362163.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-a-25_1476923498963.jpg
Jack_
20-10-2016, 12:09 PM
A great bunch of lads
http://www.humorlinks.com/humornet/files/images/ted4.jpg
jaxie
20-10-2016, 12:12 PM
Some of the people in the photo's do look older than children for sure but I think it's very difficult to age people from photo's LT. Maybe living rough the way they have been ages you. Also as was stated in a news report yesterday, some of those pictured were interpreters who were travelling with the teenagers to help with communication.
Northern Monkey
20-10-2016, 12:15 PM
Whoever was on the gate needs sacking.You wouldn't trust em to work in an off licence never mind the borders to the country.First bit of training should be spotting a fake id.:laugh:
kirklancaster
20-10-2016, 12:44 PM
I am soooo delighted to see these children, because by the same process which the authorities have used to calculate these kids ages, I am shortly coming up to my 23rd fecking birthday!!!!
YIPPEE!! :dance::dance::dance::cheer2::cheer2::laugh:
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 12:48 PM
Some of the people in the photo's do look older than children for sure but I think it's very difficult to age people from photo's LT. Maybe living rough the way they have been ages you. Also as was stated in a news report yesterday, some of those pictured were interpreters who were travelling with the teenagers to help with communication.
No that claim was false and has been discredited
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 12:49 PM
They have even admitted that they all lie about their age in order to get into countries!
kirklancaster
20-10-2016, 12:51 PM
What do yiou make of these rather old "children" arriving in Britain?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/10/397C2AC200000578-3854888-image-a-9_1476955558330.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-m-19_1476923338141.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-m-21_1476923362163.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/20/01/3987C45000000578-3853816-image-a-25_1476923498963.jpg
These are all veritable little babies LT and not a Dummy in sight.
Except those who let them in. :laugh:
Black Dagger
20-10-2016, 01:16 PM
Welcome x
Jessica.
20-10-2016, 01:18 PM
If I was desperate to get out of a country where my life was in danger I would absolutely preach to the heavens that I was a 16 year old spring chicken. :shrug:
jennyjuniper
20-10-2016, 01:20 PM
If I was desperate to get out of a country where my life was in danger I would absolutely preach to the heavens that I was a 16 year old spring chicken. :shrug:
But surely when they are in France they are already 'out of the country where their life was in danger'?
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 01:21 PM
If I was desperate to get out of a country where my life was in danger I would absolutely preach to the heavens that I was a 16 year old spring chicken. :shrug:
and would you keep doing it till you got to the country you want to get to as you have heard its the best one?
Kizzy
20-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Is this a news item, where's the source?
Jessica.
20-10-2016, 01:25 PM
But surely when they are in France they are already 'out of the country where their life was in danger'?
and would you keep doing it till you got to the country you want to get to as you have heard its the best one?
So they had good conditions and quality of life at the "jungle camp"?
jaxie
20-10-2016, 01:51 PM
But surely when they are in France they are already 'out of the country where their life was in danger'?
This is a good point Jenny and it's something I don't understand about the jungle. Surely France has a duty of care to the people there rather than letting a camp build up like it has. Particularly to any children.
jaxie
20-10-2016, 01:52 PM
So they had good conditions and quality of life at the "jungle camp"?
Isn't that really France's responsibility though?
Denver
20-10-2016, 02:20 PM
they all look dodgy
Cherie
20-10-2016, 02:25 PM
Isn't that really France's responsibility though?
Yeah I think the French are more or less saying they want to get to Britain so it's your responsibility :unsure:
I have no issue if these "children" have families in the UK, we were told it was a race against time to find the children before the camp was closed which is a lie as no one over 18 is classed as a child and where are the females?
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 02:27 PM
So they had good conditions and quality of life at the "jungle camp"?
well they did have France in general to seek refuge, maybe they did not like the food?
:think:
Jamie89
20-10-2016, 02:44 PM
No that claim was false and has been discredited
Do you have anything that shows it was discredited? And is there a link to the article that these pictures are from and where they admit "they all lie about their age"?
Northern Monkey
20-10-2016, 02:45 PM
well they did have France in general to seek refuge, maybe they did not like the food?
:think:
They saw an episode of Benefits Britain and thought ooh that looks nice we'll have some o that.
Seriously though a couple of them feckers look 45 years old.The Border control staff shoulda gone to Specsavers.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 02:51 PM
Do you have anything that shows it was discredited? And is there a link to the article that these pictures are from and where they admit "they all lie about their age"?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3854888/Charity-FALSELY-claims-38-year-old-child-asylum-seeker-actually-interpreter-one-migrant-Calais-confesses-course-majority-lie-age-UK.html
its on every news source for the last 2 days I am amazed you have not heard of this?
Johnnyuk123
20-10-2016, 03:19 PM
I've seen quite a few stories like this online recently. They all have the latest mobile phones. I wish i had a phone like that. :bawling:
Q: Where are all the girls?
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 03:26 PM
I've seen quite a few stories like this online recently. They all have the latest mobile phones. I wish i had a phone like that. :bawling:
yes I saw a pic today and one had an iphone 6!
arista
20-10-2016, 03:34 PM
Is this a news item, where's the source?
Its been on every Channel News
and Radio.
Be on QT tonight
Jamie89
20-10-2016, 03:35 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3854888/Charity-FALSELY-claims-38-year-old-child-asylum-seeker-actually-interpreter-one-migrant-Calais-confesses-course-majority-lie-age-UK.html
its on every news source for the last 2 days I am amazed you have not heard of this?
No I'd not really heard much about it... it still has the claim in the BBC article about it too. A lot of them are obviously very young though so I don't know, I guess the point is that some people will lie in desperate circumstances. Painting it as though it's all of them isn't helpful. They won't have taken a random selection for those pictures in the OP. A lot of people will look at them though and assume they're representative of all 'child' migrants. That makes me uneasier than the migrants themselves tbh,
Wizard.
20-10-2016, 03:47 PM
And when these men are put into schools and have sex with young girls then what will the Home Office do? I am a proud Conservative, but Amber Rudd is not up to the job.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 04:18 PM
terrorists lie too to get into countries
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 04:26 PM
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/calais-jungle-child-refugee-conundrum/
Interesting article about this
"Just as I did when I visited the illegal shanty-town a couple of weeks ago and met a man from Afghanistan who said he was a boy.He said his name was Imran Sheerzad and I got talking to him because he was, as far as I could tell, the only one in there who spoke intelligible English. He said he was 16 but looked 25. He had been in the Jungle for four months where he had arrived via Turkey and the Balkans after a four-month journey. His family in Nangarhar Province on the Pakistan border had given him 8,000 euros to pay for his pilgrimage.
So I asked him if he was married and he said ‘yes’ and how old his wife was and he said ’18’ and if they had a child to which he said ‘yes’ who is, he told me, a one-year-old boy. And did he have a passport that he could show me? No, he had no passport, no documents at all. So he said.
Obviously, he was not a child but was he at least a refugee? ‘I am not really refugee, no,’ he conceded. Afghanis do not have automatic refugee status. ‘But I need help,’ he added. Why was he – why was everyone in the Jungle – so dead keen on Britain? What was wrong with France? ‘The facilities,’ he explained. He was unable or unwilling to elaborate.
Yet in the year to September 2015, two-thirds of child asylum seekers in Britain whose age was disputed by officials – according to latest Home Office figures – were found to be adults."
...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-do-the-migrants-in-calais-want-to-come-to-the-uk/
Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:
"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".
For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:
"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."
Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:
"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"
This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 04:50 PM
...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-do-the-migrants-in-calais-want-to-come-to-the-uk/
Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:
"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".
For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:
"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."
Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:
"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"
This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.
written by a lawer who makes a healthy living from providing legal work on immigration?
:suspect:
jaxie
20-10-2016, 04:57 PM
...an interesting article 'why do the "migrants" in Calais want to come to the UK?'....
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/why-do-the-migrants-in-calais-want-to-come-to-the-uk/
Agents were found to play a key role in the final destination:
"Some agents simply facilitated travel to a destination chosen by the asylum seeker. Other agents directed asylum seekers to particular countries without giving them any choice. Yet other agents offered asylum seekers a priced ‘menu’ of destinations from which the asylum seeker could then choose".
For those that did have an element of choice about their destination, there were a range of factors*that influenced that choice:
"These were: whether they had relatives or friends here; their belief that the UK is a safe, tolerant and democratic country; previous links between their own country and the UK including colonialism; and their ability to speak English or desire to learn it.
There was very little evidence that the sample respondents had a detailed knowledge of: UK immigration or asylum procedures; entitlements to benefits in the UK; or the availability of work in the UK. There was even less evidence that the respondents had a comparative knowledge of how these phenomena varied between different European countries. Most of the respondents wished to work and support themselves during the determination of their asylum claim rather than be dependent on the state."
Attitudes towards work for those questioned seemed to be complex. Back in 2002 the media and Home Office were obsessed with the idea that bogus asylum seekers wanted to claim benefits. These days, after our collective experience of EU migration, most of us now surely recognise that the desire to work is likely to be a more significant*motivation for migration.
The research*found that most of those questioned believed they would be*allowed to work, wanted to work and thought they would have to work:
"Many of the respondents had worked in the country of origin (and acquired skills and had careers there), and wanted to do so again when they arrived in the country where they claimed asylum. Finding a job was important because it enabled people to rebuild their lives after what had often been traumatic and disruptive experiences. It helped refugees to regain their self-respect and confidence, and to focus upon the future…"
This being the real world, there is no easy answer to the question “why?” Work, friends, family, language, historical links to the UK and, ironically, the UK’s reputation for fairness, tolerance and welcome all play their role.
Very interesting post Ammi, thanks for sharing the article.
jaxie
20-10-2016, 05:00 PM
written by a lawer who makes a healthy living from providing legal work on immigration?
:suspect:
I think you can be a bit cynical, there are obviously those who want to come to UK because they perceive a better life here economically and not because they have been displaced by war but in fairness that is only the case some of the time. Definitely not a of the time.
...who ever wrote it though, the responses had no agenda other than striving and struggling for a better quality of life and the risks taken to try to find that...I guess that we can either look at those young men who are seeking for employment and and to offer the skills that they may have and see how much we can accommodate...?..or we can just slam the door in faces in the assumption that most mean harm to us...
..it's ironic with so much news media working against them../to vilify them..that they still see the UK as their 'haven' and a possible future for them and their families...
user104658
20-10-2016, 05:10 PM
My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen :shrug:.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:14 PM
...who ever wrote it though, the responses had no agenda other than striving and struggling for a better quality of life and the risks taken to try to find that...I guess that we can either look at those young men who are seeking for employment and and to offer the skills that they may have and see how much we can accommodate...?..or we can just slam the door in faces in the assumption that most mean harm to us...
So how would you work out if any are say from ISIS with a penchant for lorry driving?
My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen :shrug:.
...yeah but the media fights so much against that even being assessed, how we can accommodate/how many and what can we offer in employment etc in favour of scaremongering and just keep them all out..let's not even consider balance of those who only seek refuge...
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:19 PM
My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen :shrug:.
Thats great TS and you would expect ant decent country to have rules and strict guidlines about who they let in?
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:25 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/653359/Australia-s-strict-immigration-policy-600-DAYS-without-asylum-boats
Australian success story :)
So how would you work out if any are say from ISIS with a penchant for lorry driving?
..I really don't feel that you're interested in any balance of genuine with this, of those who are not as fortunate as us and whose lives fairly much suck in despair or any mind-set other than yours....because if you were then the question that would have been asked is... where is the proof with the young men in the OP or any young men migrants that they mean us harm or that they have any link to ISIS...where is the proof that suspicion is necessary...
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:40 PM
..I really don't feel that you're interested in any balance of genuine with this, of those who are not as fortunate as us and whose lives fairly much suck in despair or any mind-set other than yours....because if you were then the question that would have been asked is... where is the proof with the young men in the OP or any young men migrants that they mean us harm or that they have any link to ISIS...where is the proof that suspicion is necessary...
Id probably listen to the head of Europol?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3455254/There-5-000-ISIS-trained-jihadists-roaming-large-European-Union-warns-head-Interpol.html
I am happy to help genuine folk in genuine need but everyone must be checked very carefully. If I was living in the south of England I dont think id want my 14 year old daughter doing double maths with a 35 year old man from Afghanistan who may have a criminal record
Withano
20-10-2016, 05:45 PM
This is a computers take on Englands under 17 squad
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14729120_1271614236202338_5499925515799915938_n.jp g?oh=c6e45499bedee8e7019794a4f379bbda&oe=58959DCE
Id probably listen to the head of Europol?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3455254/There-5-000-ISIS-trained-jihadists-roaming-large-European-Union-warns-head-Interpol.html
I am happy to help genuine folk in genuine need but everyone must be checked very carefully. If I was living in the south of England I dont think id want my 14 year old daughter doing double maths with a 35 year old man from Afghanistan who may have a criminal record
..the words of the Head of Europol...
‘We can expect [ISIS] or other religious terror groups to stage an attack somewhere in Europe with the aim of achieving mass casualties among the civilian population.’
He added that the increasing number ‘presents EU member states with completely new challenges’.
But he insisted that claims terrorists are using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated.
‘There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe,’ he said.*
..I don't think it's surprising that ages are not always revealed truthfully when the media portrayal is so much BEWARE THE YOUNG MALE.../I think that untruthfulness is something that this country's media themselves have responsibility for in their scaremongering and vilification....
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:51 PM
This is a computers take on Englands under 17 squad
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14729120_1271614236202338_5499925515799915938_n.jp g?oh=c6e45499bedee8e7019794a4f379bbda&oe=58959DCE
precisely why we cant take any risks and why proof of age is required in the UK to buy alcohol and fags
Withano
20-10-2016, 05:51 PM
precisely why we cant take any risks and why proof of age is required in the UK to buy alcohol and fags
Yeh.. But more importantly, its why we should dismiss Daily Mails computer analysis.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 05:53 PM
Yeh.. But more importantly, its why we should dismiss Daily Mails computer analysis.
No one is using it as anything other than illustrative but did you note that in 2015 66% lied about their age
You just cannot take what they say as true
Withano
20-10-2016, 05:57 PM
You just cannot take what they say as true
Maybe you can't, I can do what I like.
I don't care what age they are, but 34% telling the truth is better than the ~0% reliability of daily mails computer analysis, so thats where logic tells us to start until we find a better way.
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 06:00 PM
Maybe you can't, I can do what I like.
I don't care what age they are, but 34% telling the truth is better than the ~0% reliability of daily mails computer analysis, so thats where logic tells us to start until we find a better way.
Yes sadly dental records are not accurate either, there must be a way to tell?
Johnnyuk123
20-10-2016, 06:02 PM
Even Stevie Wonder can see right through their claims to be teenagers. It's that obvious.
No one is using it as anything other than illustrative but did you note that in 2015 66% lied about their age
You just cannot take what they say as true
..but you can take the words of the Head of Europol as true, isn't that what you believe LT.../those are the words that you hold store by...
But he insisted that claims terrorists are using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated.
‘There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe,’ he said.*
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 06:09 PM
..but you can take the words of the Head of Europol as true, isn't that what you believe LT.../those are the words that you hold store by...
But he insisted that claims terrorists are using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated.
‘There is no concrete evidence terrorists are systematically using the flow of refugees to infiltrate Europe,’ he said.*
Sadly I think that was said before the Brussels incident that killed 31
"At least three of the terrorists who took part in the March 22 attacks in Brussels were “refugees” who entered Europe via Greece and the Balkans route, the Greek government has confirmed."
http://newobserveronline.com/brussels-attacked-refugee-terrorists/
Sadly I think that was said before the Brussels incident that killed 31
"At least three of the terrorists who took part in the March 22 attacks in Brussels were “refugees” who entered Europe via Greece and the Balkans route, the Greek government has confirmed."
http://newobserveronline.com/brussels-attacked-refugee-terrorists/
...that link doesn't work LT but you posted the article because you felt it's relevance and that his words had weight that should be trusted and his words being something you yourself had belief in...I'll leave you to your thread LT and bow out...you tend to make threads that pose questions to what people's thoughts are but you then dismiss any thoughts an opinions that don't concur with your own so not really inviting a discussion at all..../rather just encouraging of scaremongering and picking up of pitchforks in outrage.../also something you seem very selective in as well...
This thread is just a reflection of various points of view, all of which are valid.
There is a dilemma, do we lean on the side of compassion, or do we lean on the side of caution. Both have their benefits, but they are entirely subjective. Thats why we have rules and procedures, so that we can be consistent and fair at all times.
If people are allowed to enter legally, that don't meet the rules, then we need to tighten up our checks, if not .. then its carry on as you were.
Jamie89
20-10-2016, 07:15 PM
Yet in the year to September 2015, two-thirds of child asylum seekers in Britain whose age was disputed by officials – according to latest Home Office figures – were found to be adults."
No one is using it as anything other than illustrative but did you note that in 2015 66% lied about their age
You just cannot take what they say as true
Two thirds of those whose age was disputed were lying, I'd presume that those who weren't disputed were clearly children, and I think it was approx 1 in 5 that were disputed? (not sure on that exactly but it's around that figure) so it would be somewhere around 15% that were lying. That's still a high percentage of course (although it becomes much smaller if you start discussing 'all migrants' not just 'child migrants'), but I thought I'd point it out anyway to highlight the fact that depending on the source, you just cannot take what they say as true :hee:
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 07:19 PM
Two thirds of those whose age was disputed were lying, I'd presume that those who weren't disputed were clearly children, and I think it was approx 1 in 5 that were disputed? (not sure on that exactly but it's around that figure) so it would be somewhere around 15% that were lying. That's still a high percentage of course (although it becomes much smaller if you start discussing 'all migrants' not just 'child migrants'), but I thought I'd point it out anyway to highlight the fact that depending on the source, you just cannot take what they say as true :hee:
it only takes one liar to kill hundreds or rape a child
We must be very, very careful
Withano
20-10-2016, 07:37 PM
it only takes one liar to kill hundreds or rape a child
We must be very, very careful
Urgh
Crimson Dynamo
20-10-2016, 07:39 PM
Urgh
agreed, its a horrific thought
Withano
20-10-2016, 07:41 PM
agreed, its a horrific thought
Horrific mindset. Besides, its the white men in suits who are historically the most evil. These refugees could be a good influence on us.
user104658
20-10-2016, 08:33 PM
This is a computers take on Englands under 17 squad
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14729120_1271614236202338_5499925515799915938_n.jp g?oh=c6e45499bedee8e7019794a4f379bbda&oe=58959DCE
It thinks #3 is a woman :joker:
Cherie
20-10-2016, 10:27 PM
My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would
be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen :shrug:.
And do you think you and your family and your economic well being should take precedence over families fleeing war and persecution? Genuine refugees are the losers here because it seems they are bring shoved to the back of the queue because of young men In the main lying about their age
Northern Monkey
20-10-2016, 10:33 PM
Maybe they just had a tough paper round
Vicky.
20-10-2016, 10:53 PM
It thinks #3 is a woman :joker:
Maybe he identifies as one. naughty soldier :nono:
Vicky.
20-10-2016, 10:54 PM
My question is... who WOULDN'T be seeking the best life for themselves and for their family? I know that's separate to the actual practicalities of it - obviously there is a limit to what is feasible - but still... the accusations that fly around seem to suggest that people seeking access to the country are somehow "immoral" for seeking it, which is, of course, nonsense. If this country was to crumble tomorrow, you can bet your arse that I would be trying to get myself and my family not only to the first safe place, but to somewhere that we could actually build a life. And there's not a lot I wouldn't be willing to "lie about" to make that happen :shrug:.
Also as a serious reply to this thread
this this this
Yes I did a bit of a double take when I saw some of the pictures, some are quite clearly over 17. But they are still people. I can't blame them for lying though it does make me a bit 'what about the real kids' at the same time :S
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 08:15 AM
what is very worrying is
1. We dont even check to see if they do actually have relatives in the UK, yes we dont even check
2. Just think of the actual small children in the camp that are being pushed aside so these Afghans and Pakistanis get here first
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 12:22 PM
Migrants show their appreciation and total respect to a local French family.
l6l27sAwsGQ
Migrants show their appreciation and total respect to a local French family.
and what happened in the run up to that, that initiated it ? Context would be nice
Migrants show their appreciation and total respect to a local French family.
l6l27sAwsGQ
...wow Johnny..have you read the comments on that...?..those are actually the most hate filled things that I've ever read on the internet, discussing killing Muslims and the methods to do it...I really don't think this video should be on the forum, it's a vid of propaganda to incite hate against Muslims...and the hate is there and clear that it has incited...also that seemed very much to be stirred and incited by activists as well for a political agenda...
...wow Johnny..have you read the comments on that...?..those are actually the most hate filled things that I've ever read on the internet, discussing killing Muslims and the methods to do it...I really don't think this video should be on the forum, it's a vid of propaganda to incite hate against Muslims...and the hate is there and clear that it has incited...also that seemed very much to be stirred and incited by activists as well for a political agenda...
The people are not behaving or indeed do they look like a typical French family, I ought to know, I've been there often enough ... What you say is quite right I think
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 02:20 PM
Well Gary Liniker really made a massive tosser of himself and was flogged alive on Twitter yesterday, steer clear of politics Gary
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 03:47 PM
Well Gary Liniker really made a massive tosser of himself and was flogged alive on Twitter yesterday, steer clear of politics Gary
Yeah stick to advertising walkers crisps. Aldi crisps are better.:hee:
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 03:56 PM
...wow Johnny..have you read the comments on that...?..those are actually the most hate filled things that I've ever read on the internet, discussing killing Muslims and the methods to do it...I really don't think this video should be on the forum, it's a vid of propaganda to incite hate against Muslims...and the hate is there and clear that it has incited...also that seemed very much to be stirred and incited by activists as well for a political agenda...
Yes ammi i've seen those nasty comments. Those comments should be removed asap by youtube. But for me nasty comments left by morons is not the story... The story is that this French family was attacked for not supporting this muslim group. 2000 muslim's marched through their hometown demanding money,houses,cars,women etc and because this family held a different view point to theirs they were attacked.
Yes ammi i've seen those nasty comments. Those comments should be removed asap by youtube. But for me nasty comments left by morons is not the story... The story is that this French family was attacked for not supporting this muslim group. 2000 muslim's marched through their hometown demanding money,houses,cars,women etc and because this family held a different view point to theirs they were attacked.
..all I can say Johnny is that it doesn't make sense and the vid as portrayed doesn't ring truth...'of course there was no police in sight'..France is on high alert with police presence and 2000 people or more marched with hostility and destruction through the streets and there was no police presence../it was ignored...it doesn't make sense... and many of those people had their hands raised showing non hostility and showing openness and many were taking pics of the family or whoever they are that were appearing hostile, only phones in their hands...it just doesn't make any sense Johnny to take this on any face value at all...and I do think that the comments are very much part of the story as well because without those comments this would just be a YouTube vid...the hate incited with these propaganda things are very much a part of the story because they show the hate that was intended to incite and make it more than just a YouTube vid..how it spreads, how it grows etc and how it gathers in mobs...
..I honestly despair and feel so sad of how desensitised we can become to these things...we're a nation of compassion..isn't that part of the great in Great Britain, isn't that a big part of who we are...we can feel so much for things like poultry being held in cages, of conditions that animals are kept in and how wrong it all is but we can look into the faces of humans seeking refuge/confined in squalor conditions and feel nothing of the like and just say send them back to the hell they came from../let them die...there are other videos Johnny which will show you balance and another 'truth'...videos of the migrant camps in Calais, of the conditions there, of the people there..of how they've watched friends and family die in trying to find some life quality and value...and yet they'll still take their chances and risk their own lives because the risk at least gives them a chance..really Johnny, those will give you a truth that is very real and that completely but sadly makes sense...
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 05:35 PM
Attacks on French locals from immigrants has spiked and is now on the rise.
Demand for guns from French locals is also at an all time high.
This is the reality for many French people right now.
Q:What about their rights to live in a safe country?
Common sense tells you that not all immigrants do this, but this gang brutality is on the rise in France.
Do we seriously think that this appalling and brutal behavior will suddenly stop when they reach the UK?
I don't think so.
lHX5jsomq_U
Northern Monkey
21-10-2016, 05:36 PM
The comments are disgraceful but i don't think the content of the video should be hidden or not allowed.This is the stuff the left wing media won't show us because it goes against their multicultural agenda.There is hours of footage of these migrants and refugees vandalising and being abusive and violent but we don't see any of it in the media.We just live in ignorance to sit and slate the government for being heartless etc etc and anyone with worries and concerns about these people coming over en masse is called racist and xenophobic.This is why the real refugees should be vetted and only accepted from the refugees camps and rehomed.I am all for bringing in genuine refugees but not for uncontrolled immigration which can only encourage terror and violence and also animosity from the host countries and more power the far right extremist parties in Europe.
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 05:58 PM
..all I can say Johnny is that it doesn't make sense and the vid as portrayed doesn't ring truth...'of course there was no police in sight'..France is on high alert with police presence and 2000 people or more marched with hostility and destruction through the streets and there was no police presence../it was ignored...it doesn't make sense... and many of those people had their hands raised showing non hostility and showing openness and many were taking pics of the family or whoever they are that were appearing hostile, only phones in their hands...it just doesn't make any sense Johnny to take this on any face value at all...and I do think that the comments are very much part of the story as well because without those comments this would just be a YouTube vid...the hate incited with these propaganda things are very much a part of the story because they show the hate that was intended to incite and make it more than just a YouTube vid..how it spreads, how it grows etc and how it gathers in mobs...
..I honestly despair and feel so sad of how desensitised we can become to these things...we're a nation of compassion..isn't that part of the great in Great Britain, isn't that a big part of who we are...we can feel so much for things like poultry being held in cages, of conditions that animals are kept in and how wrong it all is but we can look into the faces of humans seeking refuge/confined in squalor conditions and feel nothing of the like and just say send them back to the hell they came from../let them die...there are other videos Johnny which will show you balance and another 'truth'...videos of the migrant camps in Calais, of the conditions there, of the people there..of how they've watched friends and family die in trying to find some life quality and value...and yet they'll still take their chances and risk their own lives because the risk at least gives them a chance..really Johnny, those will give you a truth that is very real and that completely but sadly makes sense...
Hi ammi,
Everyone makes their own mind up on what they see and what they believe to be true or not.
This video is a clear example of just how differently people can perceive things.
That is our choice to make and we should all respect that choice even if we disagree with each other.
Me personally I don't understand how anyone can watch a family being attacked like this and quickly dismiss it.
There are countless video clips of Donald Trump online and some believe it to be 100% true while others dismiss it.:shrug:
This video shows clearly what happened to this local French family.
This should not happen to ANY family whatever race or creed. But it DID happen ammi.
I would love for this world to be full of rainbows an unicorns and we all got along and lived in peace but the reality is sadly quite different, shocking even?
Like i said before we can watch countless videos like this and choose to either believe it or dismiss it.
After all that is our choice.
Hi ammi,
Everyone makes their own mind up on what they see and what they believe to be true or not.
This video is a clear example of just how differently people can perceive things.
That is our choice to make and we should all respect that choice even if we disagree with each other.
Me personally I don't understand how anyone can watch a family being attacked like this and quickly dismiss it.
There are countless video clips of Donald Trump online and some believe it to be 100% true while others dismiss it.:shrug:
This video shows clearly what happened to this local French family.
This should not happen to ANY family whatever race or creed. But it DID happen ammi.
I would love for this world to be full of rainbows an unicorns and we all got along and lived in peace but the reality is sadly quite different, shocking even?
Like i said before we can watch countless videos like this and choose to either believe it or dismiss it.
After all that is our choice.
..I would hate that Johnny...a unicorn/rainbow filled world..I prefer humans...balanced humans who aren't hate filled and who have compassion in other humans as their equal and who can see beyond themselves and their fortunate worlds...
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 06:11 PM
I would hate that Johnny...a unicorn/rainbow filled world..[B]I prefer humans...balanced humans who aren't hate filled and who have compassion in other humans as their equal and who can see beyond themselves and their fortunate worlds...
I agree me too, BUT regarding the migrant situation in my opinion it would be foolish to just let anyone into any country without the proper checks. Especially now with all the fighting going on around the world.
Jake.
21-10-2016, 06:16 PM
http://i.imgur.com/SlBc3v6.jpg
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 06:17 PM
http://i.imgur.com/SlBc3v6.jpg
:joker::joker::joker:
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 06:19 PM
..I would hate that Johnny...a unicorn/rainbow filled world..I prefer humans...balanced humans who aren't hate filled and who have compassion in other humans as their equal and who can see beyond themselves and their fortunate worlds...
and they are fortunate because they take security and immigration seriously and dont just get mugged off by any tom dick or harry with a sad face.
Look at linekar in his house with 6 bathrooms and plenty spare rooms, he would rather call people racists than actually take a "refugee" in and help them.
and they are fortunate because they take security and immigration seriously and dont just get mugged off by any tom dick or harry with a sad face.
Look at linekar in his house with 6 bathrooms and plenty spare rooms, he would rather call people racists than actually take a "refugee" in and help them.
..with respect LT but to be blunt, your words/opinions with this don't hold any validity to me...you posted an article with the words of the Head of Europol and said those were the words that you trusted/believed..you posted it/you believed...but when he said in that article that claims of terrorists using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated and that there was no concrete evidence to suggest the 'infiltration' through migrant camps...your response was to go and find another article that suited your agenda...to keep looking until you found just the right thing because you obviously hadn't read your own link and just grabbed the headline as being that'll do....
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 07:27 PM
1_B6xuwrclc
excellent points by Nigel
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 07:29 PM
..with respect LT but to be blunt, your words/opinions with this don't hold any validity to me...you posted an article with the words of the Head of Europol and said those were the words that you trusted/believed..you posted it/you believed...but when he said in that article that claims of terrorists using the migrant crisis to sneak into Europe disguised as asylum-seekers have been exaggerated and that there was no concrete evidence to suggest the 'infiltration' through migrant camps...your response was to go and find another article that suited your agenda...to keep looking until you found just the right thing because you obviously hadn't read your own link and just grabbed the headline as being that'll do....
sorry are you saying that ISIS are not sneaking into Europe as migrants/refugees?
I really hope you are not
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 07:31 PM
1_B6xuwrclc
excellent points by Nigel
Thanks. :love:
sorry are you saying that ISIS are not sneaking into Europe as migrants/refugees?
I really hope you are not
..when all you have in your own thread is a straw man argument comment then there really is nothing else to discuss, LT...you're either so close minded that it's pointless or you're baiting...also pointless.../have a lovely evening....well done for finally finding a vid that fitted with your agenda though...
Crimson Dynamo
21-10-2016, 08:02 PM
..when all you have in your own thread is a straw man argument comment then there really is nothing else to discuss, LT...you're either so close minded that it's pointless or you're baiting...also pointless.../have a lovely evening....well done for finally finding a vid that fitted with your agenda though...
im not sure what point you are making apart from the usual everyone is lovely but in this instance its not relevant and frankly dangerous
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 08:59 PM
ammi said...
I would hate that Johnny...a unicorn/rainbow filled world.I prefer humans...balanced humans who aren't hate filled and who have compassion in other humans as their equal and who can see beyond themselves and their fortunate worlds...
Hi ammi,
I have highlighted in bold your words and my response to those words are...
You are a person as are many people in the world with compassion and balance and not hate filled who view others as equal and that has to be commended. You as can many see beyond yourself and your fortunate world. This is i feel a very wonderful thing to read about and i see this not only on here by you but throughout the world by many other passionate people.
BUT....
My question to you and everyone with compassion and love in their hearts for all human beings is...
Q: How do we know that this compassion and humanity can be reciprocated by immigrants wanting to enter and settle for instance in the UK? How do we make that guy in my last video put that baseball bat down and give us a hug instead? How can we be certain that they have the same equal compassion towards your open heart as you? and more importantly can we really be certain that it will be reciprocated back to us?
Withano
21-10-2016, 09:12 PM
Q: How do we know that this compassion and humanity can be reciprocated by immigrants wanting to enter and settle for instance in the UK? How can we be certain that they have the same equal compassion towards your open heart as you? and more importantly can we really be certain that it will be reciprocated back to us?
It shouldnt matter.
Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic, I already know your answer and its ugly that its the opposite to most others on the forum.
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 09:35 PM
1_B6xuwrclc
excellent points by Nigel
Not only does he make great points LT but he is very good looking too!
If i was a woman i'd marry him in an instant!:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
Just think of the beautiful babies we would have together?
Johnnyuk123
21-10-2016, 09:36 PM
If we had twins we could call them Brex and It.
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 08:28 AM
It shouldnt matter.
Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic, I already know your answer and its ugly that its the opposite to most others on the forum.
Incorrect
kirklancaster
22-10-2016, 09:59 AM
It shouldnt matter.
Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic, I already know your answer and its ugly that its the opposite to most others on the forum.
I am addressing here, your above opinion - NOT you personally Withano.
This one post typifies EVERYTHING which is so wrong with a lot of viewpoints on this forum:
"Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic,"
This statement is nothing but thinly veiled personal insult and arrogant presumption based upon your own personal prejudice.
It can convey NOTHING else, but that you deem it futile even responding to this member because you personally deem him incapable of rational or intelligent debate solely because of his choice of avatar, and yet, this prejudice passes without a murmur of protest.
But yet, if some member had a gif of a black person and the topic was 'White Supremacy' and I responded to him with your EXACT words there would be a great cacophony of protest on here the likes of which would bring down the walls of Jericho. Let's transpose and see:
""Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a black person as their pic,"
And is not; [B]"I already know your answer..." arrogantly and sneeringly presumptive?
What about: "...and its ugly..."??
Is not this choice of word not only a strange one, but also insulting?
And as for: "...that its the opposite to most others on the forum." I think the truth is, NOT that the 'answer' you have already 'prejudged' him as giving, is opposite to "most others on the forum" - merely opposite to those few on the forum who engage in this type of debate.
There are thousands of members belonging to this forum, yet only a 'handful' of regularly active ones in these types of 'contentious' debates - and buried away among that huge silent majority who do not contribute, may be thousands who actually AGREE with Johnnyuk and LT's views, but who refrain from posting for various reasons, the least of which, is that they DARE NOT.
Your post in its entirety is very incendiary, and it's 'tone' totally unnecessary, and not conducive to civil debate - in my opinion.
Johnny's opinion is as equally as valid as yours, irrespective of any Farage avatar - dancing or otherwise.
Cherie
22-10-2016, 10:05 AM
I am addressing here, your above opinion - NOT you personally Withano.
This one post typifies EVERYTHING which is so wrong with a lot of viewpoints on this forum:
"Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic,"
This statement is nothing but thinly veiled personal insult and arrogant presumption based upon your own personal prejudice.
It can convey NOTHING else, but that you deem it futile even responding to this member because you personally deem him incapable of rational or intelligent debate solely because of his choice of avatar, and yet, this prejudice passes without a murmur of protest.
Buy yet, if some member had a gif of a black person and the topic was 'White Supremacy' and I responded to him with your EXACT words there would be a great cacophony of protest on here the likes of which would bring down the walls of Jericho. Let's transpose and see:
""Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a black person as their pic,"
And is not; [B]"I already know your answer..." arrogantly and sneeringly presumptive?
What about: "...and its ugly..."??
Is not this choice of word not only a strange one, but also insulting?
And as for: "...that its the opposite to most others on the forum." I think the truth is, NOT that the 'answer' you have already 'prejudged' him as giving, is opposite to "most others on the forum" - merely opposite to those few on the forum who engage in this type of debate.
There are thousands of members belonging to this forum, yet only a 'handful' of regularly active ones in these types of 'contentious' debates - and buried away among that huge silent majority who do not contribute, may be thousands who actually AGREE with Johnnyuk and LT's views, but who refrain from posting for various reasons, the least of which, is that they DARE NOT.
Your post in its entirety is very incendiary, and it's 'tone' totally unnecessary, and not conducive to civil debate - in my opinion.
Johnny's opinion is as equally as valid as yours, irrespective of any Farage avatar - dancing or otherwise.
:clap1:
Withano
22-10-2016, 10:33 AM
This statement is nothing but thinly veiled personal insult and arrogant presumption based upon your own personal prejudice.
Not true, I'm very open to him telling me my presumption is incorrect and he too shows compassion, it was more of an open question than a statement
But yet, if some member had a gif of a black person and the topic was 'White Supremacy' and I responded to him with your EXACT words there would be a great cacophony of protest on here the likes of which would bring down the walls of Jericho. Let's transpose and see:
Its difficult to believe that you think these two examples are comparable.
What about: "...and its ugly..."??
A lack of compassion is ugly to me. More of a generic statement than a personal insult, Maybe my wording here wasnt great.
may be thousands who actually AGREE with Johnnyuk and LT's views, but who refrain from posting for various reasons, the least of which, is that they DARE NOT.
I'll probably never use the words, 'it may be naive of me' again lol.
Your post in its entirety is very incendiary, and it's 'tone' totally unnecessary, and not conducive to civil debate - in my opinion.
Johnny's opinion is as equally as valid as yours, irrespective of any Farage avatar - dancing or otherwise.
Never said yours or his opinion matters less, seems youre the one dismissing mine though, but im not mad, this is the debates section. You, jonny and i are here for debates, this confused you last time too. If youre not here to read your point of view being argued against, id advise arguing less about other peoples.
Theres usually two opposing opinions, theres a place for us all.
thesheriff443
22-10-2016, 10:38 AM
People will always abuse the system, millions in this country who have the legal right to live in this country abuse the system and take from those that truly need it.
My original saying is, if you are not doing! You are being done!.
Well put Kirk.
As you say, not everyone will wants to comment no matter their views and just prefer to read forums and keep opinions they have to themselves.
Also what I don't get is if these 'Child' Migrants who are already safely away from the troubles, feel the need to lie to get into the UK, if they lie so easily and are dumbfoundedly believed or not depending on if there is any motive to letting them proceed to enter, I don't know enough on this to comment more, but then if lying comes so easily them, then that should raise suspicions straight off surely and looked into more.
Ignore me if my post makes no sense whatsoever please.
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 12:35 PM
I am addressing here, your above opinion - NOT you personally Withano.
This one post typifies EVERYTHING which is so wrong with a lot of viewpoints on this forum:
"Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a dancing farage as their pic,"
This statement is nothing but thinly veiled personal insult and arrogant presumption based upon your own personal prejudice.
It can convey NOTHING else, but that you deem it futile even responding to this member because you personally deem him incapable of rational or intelligent debate solely because of his choice of avatar, and yet, this prejudice passes without a murmur of protest.
But yet, if some member had a gif of a black person and the topic was 'White Supremacy' and I responded to him with your EXACT words there would be a great cacophony of protest on here the likes of which would bring down the walls of Jericho. Let's transpose and see:
""Possibly a bit naive of me to answer this question when the guy who asked has a black person as their pic,"
And is not; [B]"I already know your answer..." arrogantly and sneeringly presumptive?
What about: "...and its ugly..."??
Is not this choice of word not only a strange one, but also insulting?
And as for: "...that its the opposite to most others on the forum." I think the truth is, NOT that the 'answer' you have already 'prejudged' him as giving, is opposite to "most others on the forum" - merely opposite to those few on the forum who engage in this type of debate.
There are thousands of members belonging to this forum, yet only a 'handful' of regularly active ones in these types of 'contentious' debates - and buried away among that huge silent majority who do not contribute, may be thousands who actually AGREE with Johnnyuk and LT's views, but who refrain from posting for various reasons, the least of which, is that they DARE NOT.
Your post in its entirety is very incendiary, and it's 'tone' totally unnecessary, and not conducive to civil debate - in my opinion.
Johnny's opinion is as equally as valid as yours, irrespective of any Farage avatar - dancing or otherwise.
:clap1:
the truth
22-10-2016, 01:08 PM
We are not allowed to ask them for proof of age because it so offends the loony left and the politically correct drivel they invente..so thanks to them every fake child that arrives, means one less place for real children, yet another own goal for the loony left who lead us to ..1) The illegal iraq war and the ensuing disasters and the forming of ISIS and of course 2) national bankruptcy....but theyre less offended by the deaths of 1 million innocents and bankruptcy for millions and more concerned with the term loony left. Petty and deluded to the bitter end lol
Jack_
22-10-2016, 01:14 PM
^ the only delusion is you thinking the Iraq war was led and encouraged by the 'loony left'. Last time I checked, Bliar and Bush weren't lefties. And as for national bankruptcy, the corporate greed that led to it is one of the biggest criticisms of the left :umm2: but whatever, you keep trolling pal
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 01:17 PM
^ the only delusion is you thinking the Iraq war was led and encouraged by the 'loony left'. Last time I checked, Bliar and Bush weren't lefties. And as for national bankruptcy, the corporate greed that led to it is one of the biggest criticisms of the left :umm2: but whatever, you keep trolling pal
sigh
just because you dont agree does not mean you acuse him of trolling just to try and make your position seem the right one
also its patronising in the extreme
Jack_
22-10-2016, 01:24 PM
*sigh*
I'm not accusing him of trolling because I disagree (notice I haven't posted my real opinion in this thread at all until this point?), I did so because his post was not so discreetly aimed at me:
but theyre less offended by the deaths of 1 million innocents and bankruptcy for millions and more concerned with the term loony left. Petty and deluded to the bitter end lol
He used the term 'loony left' three times, applying it incorrectly in the process, and then proceeded to call me 'petty' and 'deluded'. So yeah, I think I'll call it out...but thanks for your input :thumbs:
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 01:32 PM
5,000 'child' migrants are adults: Half of those challenged over their age in the past decade found to be over 18
Home Office figures revealed 11,121 disputes over ages of child refugees
In the last decade, almost 45 per cent have been found to be over 18
Their treatment as children would have cost the taxpayer millions a year
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3861228/5-000-child-migrants-adults-Half-challenged-age-past-decade-18.html#ixzz4Now5cpYZ
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 01:34 PM
*sigh*
I'm not accusing him of trolling because I disagree (notice I haven't posted my real opinion in this thread at all until this point?), I did so because his post was not so discreetly aimed at me:
He used the term 'loony left' three times, applying it incorrectly in the process, and then proceeded to call me 'petty' and 'deluded'. So yeah, I think I'll call it out...but thanks for your input :thumbs:
fair comment
Cherie
22-10-2016, 02:02 PM
5,000 'child' migrants are adults: Half of those challenged over their age in the past decade found to be over 18
Home Office figures revealed 11,121 disputes over ages of child refugees
In the last decade, almost 45 per cent have been found to be over 18
Their treatment as children would have cost the taxpayer millions a year
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3861228/5-000-child-migrants-adults-Half-challenged-age-past-decade-18.html#ixzz4Now5cpYZ
I don't know why we are so accepting of this, families with young vulnerable children are being pushed aside to give places to young men who are already in a safe country, you couldn't make this **** up I've lost all confidence in the agencies dealing with this, it seems like they are just box ticking for a easy life, fill our agreed quota with any one who vaguely fits the term refugee, then go home and put their feet up, it's just another example of jobs worths
Vicky.
22-10-2016, 02:19 PM
We are not allowed to ask them for proof of age
Would they actually have proof of age though? Curiosity here as I did think yeah why don't we do that to start with, but then figured they are unlikely to have birth certificates and that so besides this we could check their ages by what? Dental checks, bone density and such?
Anyway as I said earlier I don't blame them and their families for lying. But it does mean less real children get in at the same time.
To be quite honest, I think we should be 'letting people in' who are in the refugee camps bordering war torn places. As those people stuck there are more likely to be vulnerable than those who have managed to make the journey to France :shrug:
Horrible horrible situation either way though. I am so conflicted on this its unreal..it hurts my head
Cherie
22-10-2016, 02:32 PM
Would they actually have proof of age though? Curiosity here as I did think yeah why don't we do that to start with, but then figured they are unlikely to have birth certificates and that so besides this we could check their ages by what? Dental checks, bone density and such?
Anyway as I said earlier I don't blame them and their families for lying. But it does mean less real children get in at the same time.
To be quite honest, I think we should be 'letting people in' who are in the refugee camps bordering war torn places. As those people stuck there are more likely to be vulnerable than those who have managed to make the journey to France :shrug:
Horrible horrible situation either way though. I am so conflicted on this its unreal..it hurts my head
These should be priority for sure
Jamie89
22-10-2016, 02:34 PM
We are not allowed to ask them for proof of age because it so offends the loony left and the politically correct drivel they invente..so thanks to them every fake child that arrives, means one less place for real children, yet another own goal for the loony left who lead us to ..1) The illegal iraq war and the ensuing disasters and the forming of ISIS and of course 2) national bankruptcy....but theyre less offended by the deaths of 1 million innocents and bankruptcy for millions and more concerned with the term loony left. Petty and deluded to the bitter end lol
My personal annoyance with the term 'loony left' is because it comes across as a childish insult, and the SD section can be ridiculous and off putting enough as it is sometimes to people who want to engage in a sensible debate without stuff like that. And claiming that if people take it as the insult it's clearly intended to be, then they mustn't care very much about death/bankruptcy etc... it's a logic that's lost on me sorry... using a term to try and insult people, then using their offence as a way of insulting them further. There's an irony in calling such people 'petty'... this section is honestly tiresome sometimes. (I know this post has nothing to add to the discussion so I'm sorry, but that post did kind of invite a remark on it by making such a presumption.)
Would they actually have proof of age though? Curiosity here as I did think yeah why don't we do that to start with, but then figured they are unlikely to have birth certificates and that so besides this we could check their ages by what? Dental checks, bone density and such?
Anyway as I said earlier I don't blame them and their families for lying. But it does mean less real children get in at the same time.
To be quite honest, I think we should be 'letting people in' who are in the refugee camps bordering war torn places. As those people stuck there are more likely to be vulnerable than those who have managed to make the journey to France :shrug:
Horrible horrible situation either way though. I am so conflicted on this its unreal..it hurts my head
The British government have always said they are happy to take genuine refugees directly from the refugee camps bordering the war torn areas, provided their situation is verified.
Quite honestly, saying people face war ravage in France is just ridiculous. They are safe there, no immediate threat to their safety. Those people in the camps at Calais are there because they are illegals and have nowhere else to go. So, trying to make them a sympathy case, is just such a stretch, and does detract from those in genuine suffering in the war torn areas.
Vicky.
22-10-2016, 03:14 PM
The British government have always said they are happy to take genuine refugees directly from the refugee camps bordering the war torn areas, provided their situation is verified.
Quite honestly, saying people face war ravage in France is just ridiculous. They are safe there, no immediate threat to their safety. Those people in the camps at Calais are there because they are illegals and have nowhere else to go. So, trying to make them a sympathy case, is just such a stretch, and does detract from those in genuine suffering in the war torn areas.
...so why don't we? Why take in so many from Calais?
This tends to be an unpopular opinion but I realized pretty recently that most of those 'stuck' in Calais are economic migrants rather than people who are destitute and in need of help. Now, I see nothing wrong in wanting more cash or whatever for your family..or preferring the UK because its more 'tolerant' or for our NHS or whatever, but at this moment I think its a bit crap to be prioritizing people like this over those genuinely fearing for their lives but unable leave the camps bordering Syria and the likes..you know, those who actually are very vulnerable..so much so they haven't been able to travel thousands of miles and pass through many safe countries?
...so why don't we? Why take in so many from Calais?
This tends to be an unpopular opinion but I realized pretty recently that most of those 'stuck' in Calais are economic migrants rather than people who are destitute and in need of help. Now, I see nothing wrong in wanting more cash or whatever for your family..or preferring the UK because its more 'tolerant' or for our NHS or whatever, but at this moment I think its a bit crap to be prioritizing people like this over those genuinely fearing for their lives but unable leave the camps bordering Syria and the likes..you know, those who actually are very vulnerable..so much so they haven't been able to travel thousands of miles and pass through many safe countries?
we do take them from the refugee camps next to Syria, we have been doing it and are still doing it .... I'm getting really angry and frustrated at people classifying those in Calais the same ... its just sooooooo wrong on so many levels.
Vicky.
22-10-2016, 03:21 PM
we do take them from the refugee camps next to Syria, we have been doing it and are still doing it .... I'm getting really angry and frustrated at people classifying those in Calais the same ... its just sooooooo wrong on so many levels.
Yeah, I thought of them as the same until very recently and it quite annoys me too now seeing other people with that opinion :laugh:
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 03:28 PM
we do take them from the refugee camps next to Syria, we have been doing it and are still doing it .... I'm getting really angry and frustrated at people classifying those in Calais the same ... its just sooooooo wrong on so many levels.
the ones in calais seem to be Afghans?
the ones in calais seem to be Afghans?
i think its a general assortment, the majority of which, if not all, are not considered refugees at all. The country they come from has to be classified accordingly and Afghanistan certainly isn't
Cherie
22-10-2016, 04:39 PM
Agencies were running around the camp in Calais to round up the vulnerable "children" before it was bulldozed, these "children" all had families in the UK and this is how it was sold to the public, I would like to see a breakdown of the 300 that were rescued and the percentages of age and how many families etc
Cherie
22-10-2016, 04:58 PM
Last week, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, told MPs the French authorities had agreed to verify a list of 387 child refugees with a legal right to come to the UK drawn up by Citizens UK. “Once we have that official list we will move quickly within days and remove very quickly those children,” she said.
Earlier on Monday, Rowan Williams said the safety of up to 400 unaccompanied children stranded in the Calais refugee camp was being put at risk by the government’s “foot-dragging”. The former archbishop of Canterbury said the time was short for the remainder because of the imminent dismantling of the site.
Charity takes legal action against Home Office over child refugees
Read more
He described the refugee children as “extraordinarily vulnerable” who were trapped in the “chaos of the camp and the chaos of the demolition”. Williams called on the government to expedite the cases of up to 400 children remaining in Calais. “I’m not sure why there is such foot-dragging,” he said at Croydon Minster. “The clock is ticking, the likelihood is the Calais camp will be demolished in the next 10 days.”
The Home Office said the group of 14 who arrived on Monday were among about 100 to be resettled in the UK. They came from countries including Syria, Afghanistan and Kuwait’s stateless Bidoon community. The department confirmed that the children, aged 14-17, were transferred on Monday morning. They will be assessed and screened and may be cared for in specialist accommodation before being reunited with their relatives.
However, Tina Brocklebank, a volunteer who has been conducting refugee counts with the charity L’Auberge des Migrants, said the most vulnerable children in Calais could miss out on being helped amid what she called a confusing census carried out by another charity, France Terre d’Asile
She said: “FTDA registered a very small number of children on Friday and then shut the gate and told everyone to come back on Monday. It’s a despicable way to build up hopes, withhold and keep changing information and confuse everybody. We are concerned that buses may at some point arrive for the children, and the ypushy ones will get on while the most vulnerable ones will still be hiding in their shelters and tents – either because they don’t know what’s going on or will be too scared to get on a bus.”
The French interior minister has warned of a damaging blame game between his country and the UK over the Calais refugee crisis, with accusations of selfishness and inhumanity preventing action being taken to support vulnerable individuals.
Writing in the Guardian, Bernard Cazeneuve said there had been a litany of misunderstandings between the two countries but added that there was now an urgent need for a common outlook to tackle a situation “everyone agrees is a disaster”.
Not to be too cynical about it but money changing hands for a place on the bus cannot be dismissed either
kirklancaster
22-10-2016, 04:59 PM
The last comprehensive 'count' of the camp at Calais, was carried out by the 'Help Refugees' and 'L'Auberge Des Migrants' organisations in February 2016.
After a "thorough and methodical census of the entire camp" the findings were: .
5497 Total Residents
182 Family Units
205 Women
651 Children of which 423 are unaccompanied.
The census did not include "government run facilities including Jules Ferry (for women and children) and the shipping containers which hold 1500 and have only 300 spaces left"
This count cannot be hailed as 'anti-immigrant', 'xenophobic', 'racist' propaganda - in light of the two pro-refugee organisations responsible for carrying it out, but the findings make a total NONSENSE of all those who haved always REFUTED claims that these 'refugees' are mainly MEN.
And BOTS is 1,000% correct in his assertion that these are NOT refugees.
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 05:00 PM
Last week, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, told MPs the French authorities had agreed to verify a list of 387 child refugees with a legal right to come to the UK drawn up by Citizens UK. “Once we have that official list we will move quickly within days and remove very quickly those children,” she said.
Earlier on Monday, Rowan Williams said the safety of up to 400 unaccompanied children stranded in the Calais refugee camp was being put at risk by the government’s “foot-dragging”. The former archbishop of Canterbury said the time was short for the remainder because of the imminent dismantling of the site.
Charity takes legal action against Home Office over child refugees
Read more
He described the refugee children as “extraordinarily vulnerable” who were trapped in the “chaos of the camp and the chaos of the demolition”. Williams called on the government to expedite the cases of up to 400 children remaining in Calais. “I’m not sure why there is such foot-dragging,” he said at Croydon Minster. “The clock is ticking, the likelihood is the Calais camp will be demolished in the next 10 days.”
The Home Office said the group of 14 who arrived on Monday were among about 100 to be resettled in the UK. They came from countries including Syria, Afghanistan and Kuwait’s stateless Bidoon community. The department confirmed that the children, aged 14-17, were transferred on Monday morning. They will be assessed and screened and may be cared for in specialist accommodation before being reunited with their relatives.
However, Tina Brocklebank, a volunteer who has been conducting refugee counts with the charity L’Auberge des Migrants, said the most vulnerable children in Calais could miss out on being helped amid what she called a confusing census carried out by another charity, France Terre d’Asile
She said: “FTDA registered a very small number of children on Friday and then shut the gate and told everyone to come back on Monday. It’s a despicable way to build up hopes, withhold and keep changing information and confuse everybody. We are concerned that buses may at some point arrive for the children, and the ypushy ones will get on while the most vulnerable ones will still be hiding in their shelters and tents – either because they don’t know what’s going on or will be too scared to get on a bus.”
The French interior minister has warned of a damaging blame game between his country and the UK over the Calais refugee crisis, with accusations of selfishness and inhumanity preventing action being taken to support vulnerable individuals.
Writing in the Guardian, Bernard Cazeneuve said there had been a litany of misunderstandings between the two countries but added that there was now an urgent need for a common outlook to tackle a situation “everyone agrees is a disaster”.
Not to be too cynical about it but money changing hands for a place on the bus cannot be dismissed either
Why the hell are charities getting involved this should be dealt with by border control?
kirklancaster
22-10-2016, 05:01 PM
Last week, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, told MPs the French authorities had agreed to verify a list of 387 child refugees with a legal right to come to the UK drawn up by Citizens UK. “Once we have that official list we will move quickly within days and remove very quickly those children,” she said.
Earlier on Monday, Rowan Williams said the safety of up to 400 unaccompanied children stranded in the Calais refugee camp was being put at risk by the government’s “foot-dragging”. The former archbishop of Canterbury said the time was short for the remainder because of the imminent dismantling of the site.
Charity takes legal action against Home Office over child refugees
Read more
He described the refugee children as “extraordinarily vulnerable” who were trapped in the “chaos of the camp and the chaos of the demolition”. Williams called on the government to expedite the cases of up to 400 children remaining in Calais. “I’m not sure why there is such foot-dragging,” he said at Croydon Minster. “The clock is ticking, the likelihood is the Calais camp will be demolished in the next 10 days.”
The Home Office said the group of 14 who arrived on Monday were among about 100 to be resettled in the UK. They came from countries including Syria, Afghanistan and Kuwait’s stateless Bidoon community. The department confirmed that the children, aged 14-17, were transferred on Monday morning. They will be assessed and screened and may be cared for in specialist accommodation before being reunited with their relatives.
However, Tina Brocklebank, a volunteer who has been conducting refugee counts with the charity L’Auberge des Migrants, said the most vulnerable children in Calais could miss out on being helped amid what she called a confusing census carried out by another charity, France Terre d’Asile
She said: “FTDA registered a very small number of children on Friday and then shut the gate and told everyone to come back on Monday. It’s a despicable way to build up hopes, withhold and keep changing information and confuse everybody. We are concerned that buses may at some point arrive for the children, and the ypushy ones will get on while the most vulnerable ones will still be hiding in their shelters and tents – either because they don’t know what’s going on or will be too scared to get on a bus.”
The French interior minister has warned of a damaging blame game between his country and the UK over the Calais refugee crisis, with accusations of selfishness and inhumanity preventing action being taken to support vulnerable individuals.
Writing in the Guardian, Bernard Cazeneuve said there had been a litany of misunderstandings between the two countries but added that there was now an urgent need for a common outlook to tackle a situation “everyone agrees is a disaster”.
Not to be too cynical about it but money changing hands for a place on the bus cannot be dismissed either
:clap1::clap1::clap1:
Crimson Dynamo
22-10-2016, 05:10 PM
David Simmonds, chairman of the LGA’s asylum, refugee and migration task group, said: “The Home Office are saying that they have carried out checks that family members exist but in fact local authorities are being asked to check out the relatives when the children arrive.
“Even if the child has named a relative here, they could be lying or the relative could be lying about their ability to look after them. They might say they have a spare bedroom but then it turns out that uncle is actually sharing a bedroom with five other people above a shop.
“If they can’t look after the children they will go back into the system as unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.
“The local authority then becomes responsible for their care, accommodation and education until the age of 25, under the Leaving Care Act. That means the local authority also has to pay their university fees in full, because as foreigners they aren’t entitled to student loans.”
Mr Simmonds said the situation was placing a huge financial burden on local authorities at ports of entry, such as Hillingdon, where he sits as a councillor, and which includes Heathrow.
He said: “For a long, long time councils at ports of entry have been expressing concern because of the numbers of cases where age assessments have been disputed. Ministers just didn’t seem to want to engage.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/farce-of-child-migrant-family-checks-home-office-under-fire-for/
MrJack
24-10-2016, 05:45 AM
So they had good conditions and quality of life at the "jungle camp"?
The Jungle camp is where the migrants went who didn't claim asylum. If they had claimed it in France or one of the other countries they'd passed through, they wouldn't have to be in the Jungle.
Northern Monkey
24-10-2016, 10:15 AM
The Jungle camp is where the migrants went who didn't claim asylum. If they had claimed it in France or one of the other countries they'd passed through, they wouldn't have to be in the Jungle.
So if they won't claim asylum then they're probably not refugees.
Cherie
24-10-2016, 10:38 AM
Reports this morning that there are still unaccompanied children as young as 8 in the camp yet we are ferrying grown men across :bored:
Northern Monkey
24-10-2016, 11:04 AM
Reports this morning that there are still unaccompanied children as young as 8 in the camp yet we are ferrying grown men across :bored:Total incompetence.The children should be the priority.Whoever is in charge should be going round the camp and finding the children.It looks like they can't be arsed and are just letting on anyone who turns up first leaving the most vulnerable behind.
Johnnyuk123
24-10-2016, 11:08 AM
It's on the news right now live footage. All men, not a single child or girl in sight. :shrug:
Crimson Dynamo
24-10-2016, 11:09 AM
LRc0KGRjfec
Hitchens schooling that awful Yasmin woman :joker:
(and "They have families here" argument has been proven to be bogus and the second biggest lie told by the migrants after age)
Is this a news item, where's the source?
It's "serious debate" nothing says it has to be a news story fgs.:joker:
Kizzy
01-11-2016, 02:11 AM
It's "serious debate" nothing says it has to be a news story fgs.:joker:
Those pics had to be from somewhere...I wondered if it was a news article is all :/
Crimson Dynamo
22-12-2016, 03:09 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/22/12/3B93C84B00000578-4057848-image-a-24_1482409745164.jpg
look at point 2
:idc:
Cherie
22-12-2016, 04:32 PM
That's okay though because he was due to be deported :idc:
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