France :Calais Jungle to be bulldozed starting Monday 24th/10/16

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/22/13/399ACB8C00000578-0-image-m-83_1477138585109.jpg
Yes move on.


France has the right


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3862226/With-belongings-bin-bags-shopping-trolleys-thousands-migrants-set-spread-Northern-France-forced-leave-Calais-Jungle-bulldozed.html

[Northern Monkey]

See they made a mistake making a jungle theme camp.It should've been a desert theme so they'd feel more at home.

[jet]

Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days...

[joeysteele]

Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days...

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

[bots]

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

[kirklancaster]

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Samm]

all those poor people :(

[Vicky.]

I won't click the mail link, but what exactly is happening to those who are there now? :suspect:

Surely they can't stay in France. I assume they can't come here. I doubt anyone will be paying for flights back to wherever they came from. So is it just a case of...make your own way back the way you came?

[James]

I won't click the mail link, but what exactly is happening to those who are there now? :suspect:

Surely they can't stay in France. I assume they can't come here. I doubt anyone will be paying for flights back to wherever they came from. So is it just a case of...make your own way back the way you came?

They just said on the news that they would be offered places in refugee centres, but some might refuse and continue to try to get to the UK.

[joeysteele]

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

Firstly, I painted no one at all with any brush except myself, so please do not manipulate my words to possibly try to cause problems for me on here.
I do not appreciate that.

I stated how I feel and think myself,not a single thing about no one else.

The only other thing I did was actually agree totally with jet, who surprisingly I see you chose not to take him up on what he said but you did myself right off.

Anyway you got your first handclap so well done to you.

[kirklancaster]

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

A very noble speech Joey, most commendable, and guaranteed to raise your popularity on here even more in certain quarters, but I am totally confused.

Are you referring to genuine Refugees? Illegal Economic Migrants? Or ALL?

There is a VAST difference between illegal immigrants wanting to gain entry into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons, and GENUINE refugees who NEED sanctuary and help.

The trouble is, I - and just a few others - speak only the truth, and it doesn't make us popular on here.

And that truth which we speak, is that this little island is zillions of pounds in debt, and all its services - the Benefits System, NHS, Police, Fire Services, Education and schools, Army etc etc, are collapsing under dwindling funding and the strain of TOO MANY PEOPLE demanding their services.

There is NO room and NO money to simply let every economic migrant in by the millions so PRIORITY has to be GENUINE refugees.

Of course, we who speak the truth, are xenophobic, heartless, inhuman, uncaring, racist, right wing fascist, Little Englanders - or worse.

If your stance is taken to its logical conclusion and ALL economic immigrants are welcomed into the Uk - WHERE is the MONEY coming from? The hundreds of thousands of new houses needed? The tens of thousands of extra Police, Firemen, Teachers, Doctors etc who will ALL require paying BY THE STATE.
The extra hundreds of billions needed for the NHS, Education, etc etc?

To repeat what others have said on here already - EVERY illegal ECONOMIC immigrant gaining entry to the UK DEPRIVES a GENUINE refugee from doing so - a genuine refugee who NEEDS sanctuary and help.

I have news for you Joey - you are not the only one on here who 'sees' themselves as "a human being, just one of many of the whole human race".

I can proof that I donate - by monthly deduction from my bank - to 7 different Charities - - including Oxfam -- and I can also proof that I regularly help Albanian and Lithuanian and a few other Nationalities Immigrants with their documentation and Housing problems on an unpaid basis.

It does not make me Mother Theresa.

Nor does it stop me from facing reality on issues such as Illegal Immigrants and speaking what I consider to be the truth.

Popularity be damned.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=James;9024039]They just said on the news that they would be offered places in refugee centres, but some might refuse and continue to try to get to the UK.[/QUOTnE]

So those that refuse should immediately be removed from charities lists or census or whatever, if wont happen though and they will probably pop up on the next tranche to gain access mainly from greasing palms....the people who are aiding and abetting this cannot call themselves humanitarians because they are capitalists

[bots]

Firstly, I painted no one at all with any brush except myself, so please do not manipulate my words to possibly try to cause problems for me on here.
I do not appreciate that.

I stated how I feel and think myself,not a single thing about no one else.

The only other thing I did was actually agree totally with jet, who surprisingly I see you chose not to take him up on what he said but you did myself right off.

Anyway you got your first handclap so well done to you.

thanks for your response, you will see that you did in fact state below:

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.


Which is painting everyone on the forum with a particular brush, that I personally take offense to.

You paint us all as a bunch of uncaring so and so's and nothing could be further from the truth. I want to help those genuinely fleeing war. Those identified and agreed to be taken, in cooperation and agreement with international agencies. Not those that wish to enter our country via illegal means.

[joeysteele]

thanks for your response, you will see that you did in fact state below:



Which is painting everyone on the forum with a particular brush, that I personally take offense to.

You paint us all as a bunch of uncaring so and so's and nothing could be further from the truth. I want to help those genuinely fleeing war. Those identified and agreed to be taken, in cooperation and agreement with international agencies. Not those that wish to enter our country via illegal means.

Where on earth have I said anything about you or anyone else in that post.

I agreed with jet as to the tone on serious debates.
I then went on to detail what I think and feel myself.

I did not even say everyone should think as I do, only what I actually think and feel.

Honestly I cannot be bothered with you and just stop twisting my words to try to cause bother.
If you think I said anything about anyone repost my post to the mods, in fact I will do it that for you and send it to them myself to see if I did or said anything wrong.

I agreed with jet, you have only come at me, yet all I did was state my thoughts, my feelings and what I would like to see done.

[Ammi]

..I'm really stunned as to any relevance of 'popularity' in this thread or on this topic...I think on a forum like this we pretty much get to know the opinions on others on many things and their stances and thoughts become a little 'predictable', you could say...I definitely could have predicted Joey's stance on the Calais migrant camp situation, it holds no surprises at all because he tends to be quite constant with these things and it's something he's consistently posted his opinion on in different threads....not for popularity but because he posts his thoughts and his heart...Joey has never in any way sought popularity on this forum...he doesn't adopt any 'popular gimmicks' like avatars and sigs...he rarely posts in any section other than SD and sports...sport and serious discussions being of his interest...and anyone who knows Joey, is without doubt that popularity has no bearing in any way at all in his posting on any topic at any time...

[joeysteele]

A very noble speech Joey, most commendable, and guaranteed to raise your popularity on here even more in certain quarters, but I am totally confused.

Are you referring to genuine Refugees? Illegal Economic Migrants? Or ALL?

There is a VAST difference between illegal immigrants wanting to gain entry into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons, and GENUINE refugees who NEED sanctuary and help.

The trouble is, I - and just a few others - speak only the truth, and it doesn't make us popular on here.

And that truth which we speak, is that this little island is zillions of pounds in debt, and all its services - the Benefits System, NHS, Police, Fire Services, Education and schools, Army etc etc, are collapsing under dwindling funding and the strain of TOO MANY PEOPLE demanding their services.

There is NO room and NO money to simply let every economic migrant in by the millions so PRIORITY has to be GENUINE refugees.

Of course, we who speak the truth, are xenophobic, heartless, inhuman, uncaring, racist, right wing fascist, Little Englanders - or worse.

If your stance is taken to its logical conclusion and ALL economic immigrants are welcomed into the Uk - WHERE is the MONEY coming from? The hundreds of thousands of new houses needed? The tens of thousands of extra Police, Firemen, Teachers, Doctors etc who will ALL require paying BY THE STATE.
The extra hundreds of billions needed for the NHS, Education, etc etc?

To repeat what others have said on here already - EVERY illegal ECONOMIC immigrant gaining entry to the UK DEPRIVES a GENUINE refugee from doing so - a genuine refugee who NEEDS sanctuary and help.

I have news for you Joey - you are not the only one on here who 'sees' themselves as "a human being, just one of many of the whole human race".

I can proof that I donate - by monthly deduction from my bank - to 7 different Charities - - including Oxfam -- and I can also proof that I regularly help Albanian and Lithuanian and a few other Nationalities Immigrants with their documentation and Housing problems on an unpaid basis.

It does not make me Mother Theresa.

Nor does it stop me from facing reality on issues such as Illegal Immigrants and speaking what I consider to be the truth.

Popularity be damned.


A good try by you again Kirk to twist words and jump in at me again too, I actually said talking about myself,I saw myself as a human being,then added just one of many of the whole human race.

I said no one else was not a member of the human race but there you go.

Odd how you too, have chosen to join in and jump on my post while I was only agreeing with another who you totally ignored the comment of.
I am not playing your games Kirk.
I have sent my post to the mods myself.

[kirklancaster]

..I'm really stunned as to any relevance of 'popularity' in this thread or on this topic...I think on a forum like this we pretty much get to know the opinions on others on many things and their stances and thoughts become a little 'predictable', you could say...I definitely could have predicted Joey's stance on the Calais migrant camp situation, it holds no surprises at all because he tends to be quite constant with these things and it's something he's consistently posted his opinion on in different threads....not for popularity but because he posts his thoughts and his heart...Joey has never in any way sought popularity on this forum...he doesn't adopt any 'popular gimmicks' like avatars and sigs...he rarely posts in any section other than SD and sports...sport and serious discussions being of his interest...and anyone who knows Joey, is without doubt that popularity has no bearing in any way at all in his posting on any topic at any time...

I stated: "A very noble speech Joey, most commendable, and guaranteed to raise your popularity on here even more in certain quarters" - WHERE is this NOT the TRUTH?

And where is it NOT true, that those of us who do not espouse an 'Open Door' 'Free For All' immigration policy, are NOT so popular in those same 'Certain Quarters'?

Further; I did not state anywhere that Joey's post was specifically written by him with the express purpose in mind of 'increasing his popularity' - I said that such noble sentiments were guaranteed to increase his popularity (in certain quarters) and the two are not the same.

The above, all being the truth, I am not only at a loss to find any reason why you should be 'stunned' by what I WROTE, but also as to why you felt the need to leap in and defend Joey when he was not being attacked?

I find it strange, that the actual part of my post which 'stunned' you - as well as being innocuous - is but 13 words prefacing a 394 word post, but yet you have no comment about any of the points which I address in the the remainder of my post.

Anyway, I commend you on such a spirited defense Ammi - it is just a pity that it is redundant, as there has been no crime, let alone a trial.

[Kizzy]

We helped make the mess, we need to help clean it up... If there's money for cluster bombs there's money for aid/housing.

[jennyjuniper]

I'm all for helping those in need, but surely it's only those who can never return to their countries, who would be killed if they did, who should be granted asylum.?
In my language class, when I first came to Denmark there were 22 students. Mostly they were from the arabian countries, but only two (from Sri Lanka) had 'NOT TO BE ADMITTED) stamped on their passports.
These two could never return, because they knew they would be tiortured and killed if they did. The rest from Syria and other parts of the middle east went back to visit their relatives at regular intervals and in my mind that doesn't make them genuine refugees.
While I applaud people who want to help others, please help the needy in your own country. Too often the poor, elderly, mentall sick are ignored while people rush to 'do good' for a popular cause.

[Kizzy]

Have you heard of Aleppo?

[Ammi]

I'm all for helping those in need, but surely it's only those who can never return to their countries, who would be killed if they did, who should be granted asylum.?
In my language class, when I first came to Denmark there were 22 students. Mostly they were from the arabian countries, but only two (from Sri Lanka) had 'NOT TO BE ADMITTED) stamped on their passports.
These two could never return, because they knew they would be tiortured and killed if they did. The rest from Syria and other parts of the middle east went back to visit their relatives at regular intervals and in my mind that doesn't make them genuine refugees.
While I applaud people who want to help others, please help the needy in your own country. Too often the poor, elderly, mentall sick are ignored while people rush to 'do good' for a popular cause.

...while I don't disagree with what you say Jenny, I guess the way I see it is that funding doesn't appear to go to those things anyway...it didn't appear to before the Calais situation and it hasn't since..that's the thing, we don't have any say in where these things are focused/government money and our taxes...it's never seemed to be any sort of 'either/or' situation to me...money isn't spent where it should be spent..(or where I personally think anyway..)...not nearly enough invested into a bursting at the seams NHS, virtually nothing into mental health of either adults or children...the homelessness not being addressed..in fact the homeless being fined and penalised for being homeless.../I mean how crazy is that and no addressing of these things sufficiently whether the Calais situation exists or not...those people are there though, they're there now and it has to be addressed that they're there because it's basically being ignored in the hope that it'll all just go away and not exist, but it won't will it...and countries passing the buck of responsibility is just avoidance, just get down to the job and sort it out..these are human beings and there but with the grace of God, they could be anyone of us....

[Ammi]

..if today or tomorrow, the government were to say...look, we can't help in any way at all because this is what we're investing in mental health atm and we also want to do this for others as well.../and we just can't do it all, we have to self preserve as well..?.../but none of those things are visible...all we get is this needs attention and that needs attention and there isn't enough money .../but where is that attention because it isn't presenting itself to be obvious or evident...

[Johnnyuk123]

Sunday paper story on the calais child migrants crisis...

Carer discovers her 12yr old refugee is a 21yr old Jihadi.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2030373/migrant-foster-mum-reveals-her-horror-at-discovering-12-year-old-refugee-in-her-care-is-actually-a-21-year-old-jihadi/

[Cherie]

Have you heard of Aleppo?


That's the issue though isnt it Kizzy? For every 27 year old claiming to be 17 we take from Calais there is one less space for a child in a camp in Syria. I have no problem with vulnerable children being taken from Calais or people who have family here but this isn't happening in some cases.

[Cherie]

:joker: the avatar changes

Oh bit weird they are all back, Johnny was Norma for a bit

[kirklancaster]

A good try by you again Kirk to twist words and jump in at me again too, I actually said talking about myself,I saw myself as a human being,then added just one of many of the whole human race.

I said no one else was not a member of the human race but there you go.

Odd how you too, have chosen to join in and jump on my post while I was only agreeing with another who you totally ignored the comment of.
I am not playing your games Kirk.
I have sent my post to the mods myself.

I responded to a post on a forum Joey, and was not; 'jumping in at you again' - whatever that is meant to imply - nor was I 'playing games'.

Jet made the following post:

"Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days..."

I believe that the meaning of Jet's post is very clear; she is disgusted and angry, that, in her opinion, some members have expressed little sympathy and compassion for the plight of the unfortunate people living in the camps at Calais, and she gives the former as reasons why she does not post very often in 'these type of threads' because she fears that she would quickly get banned - probably for becoming embroiled in 'personal' argument with those members she refers to - members who do not hold the same opinions as she does.

Jet does not say that certain members should NOT hold such opinions - just intimates that she is disgusted and angry that they do - which is her prerogative.

You open your response post to Jet with:

"Well said Jet and I mean that 100%"

Which can only mean that you too, feel exactly the same way.

However, where Jet does not expound on what she is saying, you actually continue Joey:

"I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel."

Thus, you clearly link the members who are perceived as dispassionate and unsympathetic to the plight of those camped at Calais, to the demise of Serious Debates and the reason why you no longer love to participate in, or even read, Serious Debates.

Whether in the subtext or otherwise, this is a CLEAR and UNEQUIVOCAL statement from you, that ANYONE who does NOT HOLD your views on Illegal Immigrants and the Calais Camps, are contemptible and to blame for impairing the quality of debate on Serious Debates.

What is more, you stamp those same members of being more than likely of subjecting you to abuse simply for posting your views, but this is not the case Joey, because only two members - BOTS and myself - have responded to you, and neither of us have abused you, we have just stated facts and challenged some of your contentions.

I have found that it is the members who do not conform to the 'general consensus of opinion' here on Tibb, that are more likely to suffer irrational abuse for posting their views.

Incidentally Joey – the statements of ALL member's contributions to Serious Debates also 'comes from how they are, think and feel' – or ought to.

“I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.”

Nothing at all to object to in the above Joey, and I would hazard a guess that everyone on Tibb feels exactly the same way.

However, it is the next from you – when taking in the context of the thread title and subject matter, in addition to everything else which you have written – which I find arrogantly presumptuous, very judgemental and very very unfair to those of us on here who have a different viewpoint on the Calais camps and Illegal Immigration in general, because you are clearly indicting us of (adversely) judging the Calais camp immigrants, deriding them, and condemning them:

“Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.”

You cannot claim any 'Moral High Ground' Joey and look down upon the rest of us just because we do not extend the 'Welcome No Questions Asked Mat' to ALL immigrants – Economic especially.

As BOTS said; none of us would seek to turn away GENUINE refugees who are in need of a safe haven and succour, and it is offensive to me anyway, if not the others who share my views, that because we regard the 'refugee' status of the majority of those who are camped at Calais as 'suspect', we are being accused of the above traits.

It is totally illogical, and absolutely dangerously unrealistic, to want to let anyone into this country – unscreened – just because they state a DESIRE to enter the UK, even if their plight may be relatively desperate, when they are, under the law – Illegal Immigrants.

Extend that non-logic to other areas of life;

The drug addict living in a squat who WANTS to shoplift £200 worth of goods from the local ASDA to sell to fund his heroin habit.

He is desperate and destitute and living in abject squalor.

Should we allow him to shoplift and SATISFY his DEMANDS and DESIRES purely because of his plight?

(Coincidentally, the plight of both the hypothetical drug addict, and the people in the Calais camps are self-inflicted)

There are Laws and a system (as flawed and ineffectual as it is) concerning Immigrants and Refugees, and those people in the Calais camps have not only been classified as non-refugees and potential Illegal Immigrants, but - as Cherie has pointed out - for every Calais camp immigrant who is allowed into the UK, it is at the cost of a GENUINE refugee.

I am not – of course – referring to unaccompanied children, who are but a minuscule minority, and who SHOULD be taken in by us even it means making an exceptional case for them and flouting our own laws.

[Cherie]

I can't understand why people would be turned off serious debates by people holding different views, if we all held the same view there would be nothing to debate, it's interesting to read others views, sometimes it makes you think about things from a different angle, and that not everything is black and white, sometimes I find myself agreeing with people who hold views I don't normally agree with, and vice versa, neither do I get the argument that I can't say what I feel or I will end up banned, as long as you express your views without insulting members then there should be no issue. Let's hear your thoughts Jet it might give us all another angle to look at. From this thread all I can gather is that we all want to see help given but in some cases members feel the help should be targeted at those most in danger and in need

PS I always assumed Jet was male ...

[Johnnyuk123]

:joker: the avatar changes

Oh bit weird they are all back, Johnny was Norma for a bit

You got the failed website load where all the images move around tibb then? lol I think it's a bug on here.
If i was gonna be a Norma Cherie it would be Norma Bates! :joker::joker::joker:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/creepypasta/images/1/1a/Psychopath-Norman-Bates-631.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20130127012826

[kirklancaster]

I can't understand why people would be turned off serious debates by people holding different views, if we all held the same view there would be nothing to debate, it's interesting to read others views, sometimes it makes you think about things from a different angle, and that not everything is black and white, sometimes I find myself agreeing with people who hold views I don't normally agree with, and vice versa, neither do I get the argument that I can't say what I feel or I will end up banned, as long as you express your views without insulting members then there should be no issue. Let's hear your thoughts Jet it might give us all another angle to look at. From this thread all I can gather is that we all want to see help given but in some cases members feel the help should be targeted at those most in danger and in need

PS I always assumed Jet was male ...

Another great post Cherie from the Queen of Common Sense. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

As for Jet :laugh: 'She' might be a 'He', in which case I apologise. I think I assumed Jet was female because of some subconscious thoughts of 'Jet' the Gladiator.:blush:

[kirklancaster]

You got the failed website load where all the images move around tibb then? lol I think it's a bug on here.
If i was gonna be a Norma Cherie it would be Norma Bates! :joker::joker::joker:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/creepypasta/images/1/1a/Psychopath-Norman-Bates-631.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20130127012826

:laugh: There's a lot on here who associate you with Norma's son - Master Bates. :laugh::wavey:

[Johnnyuk123]

:laugh: There's a lot on here who associate you with Norma's son - Master Bates. :laugh::wavey:

:joker::joker::joker:

[joeysteele]

Really Kirk you are totally again distorting my post and words to suit yourself, as you have done before.
Even having your posts removed in the past that have done that too.
Although none ever being reported by myself,it just being done.

All I expressed is my view,my feelings, what else should I express and not in a nasty fashion either like you and others have done towards me.

You put people down in a subtle way and do get at them, even when they have attempted to close the issue,as I tried to.
I told you last night I was 'not' going to play your games and that I had sent my post to the mods myself.
Yet here today again, you continue to badger me on this issue.

You have near totally distorted my words and post.
I am not going to give you the satisfaction of a further breakdown as to how you have done that, as doing so would only lead to you again coming back at me again, with likely the handclapping from your following.

However one thing I have to point out,you state what I said could do things for my popularity.
You used the term 'your popularity' directly to me personally,that was a singular jibe at me.
I care not a jot about popularity, I do nothing on here to set myself up as better than anyone else or attract anyone else.
I am no better or worse than anyone else but I am just as good as anyone else.

I am simply me, not in the face of people constantly on or off here.just a member expressing his thoughts, his feelings and how I would like the World to be.
I was not even just talking about England either, I was talking about the World and the whole human race.

You however choose to get at me again,( after I made a direct response only to jet),yes to me again, and that is what you do Kirk, and have for some time now.
Also just for your information, as jet is a friend of mine on tibb,I doubt he would mind if I inform you, that jet is male not female.

I have submitted my original post to the mods myself,my response to what jet said and in which I explained to jet my own thoughts and feelings only.
You and others certainly have every right to disagree with what I say but not to constantly choose my posts to keep responding to and get at what I say,analysing every word and distorting what I say too, to maybe try to force further responses back to you again from me, which would then allow you to open the door to more of your nit picking and twisting more words said.
Making unfair criticisms in the process too towards me as to what your distortion of what I said.

In fact it is a mystery to me why you would even in any way identify yourself in the first place as to any thing you perceive to be negative in my post,which I deny totally that there is, as it was only my own personal view and feelings on an ongoing tragedy in the World.
I no way ever mentioned anyone singularly, either 'on' or even 'off' TIBB actually.
I also now too, to avoid problems for myself, rarely 'initially' if ever, respond to you directly on your posts anyway either unlike often yourself towards mine.

[kirklancaster]

Really Kirk you are totally again distorting my post and words to suit yourself, as you have done before.
Even having your posts removed in the past that have done that too.
Although none ever being reported by myself,it just being done.

All I expressed is my view,my feelings, what else should I express and not in a nasty fashion either like you and others have done towards me.

You put people down in a subtle way and do get at them, even when they have attempted to close the issue,as I tried to.
I told you last night I was 'not' going to play your games and that I had sent my post to the mods myself.
Yet here today again, you continue to badger me on this issue.

You have near totally distorted my words and post.
I am not going to give you the satisfaction of a further breakdown as to how you have done that, as doing so would only lead to you again coming back at me again, with likely the handclapping from your following.

However one thing I have to point out,you state what I said could do things for my popularity.
You used the term 'your popularity' directly to me personally,that was a singular jibe at me.
I care not a jot about popularity, I do nothing on here to set myself up as better than anyone else or attract anyone else.
I am no better or worse than anyone else but I am just as good as anyone else.

I am simply me, not in the face of people constantly on or off here.just a member expressing his thoughts, his feelings and how I would like the World to be.
I was not even just talking about England either, I was talking about the World and the whole human race.

You however choose to get at me again,( after I made a direct response only to jet),yes to me again, and that is what you do Kirk, and have for some time now.
Also just for your information, as jet is a friend of mine on tibb,I doubt he would mind if I inform you, that jet is male not female.

I have submitted my original post to the mods myself,my response to what jet said and in which I explained to jet my own thoughts and feelings only.
You and others certainly have every right to disagree with what I say but not to constantly choose my posts to keep responding to and get at what I say,analysing every word and distorting what I say too, to maybe try to force further responses back to you again from me, which would then allow you to open the door to more of your nit picking and twisting more words said.
Making unfair criticisms in the process too towards me as to what your distortion of what I said.

In fact it is a mystery to me why you would even in any way identify yourself in the first place as to any thing you perceive to be negative in my post,which I deny totally that there is, as it was only my own personal view and feelings on an ongoing tragedy in the World.
I no way ever mentioned anyone singularly, either 'on' or even 'off' TIBB actually.

Joey - I responded to your post to explain just why I - and others - took umbrage at to what we perceived you to be saying in it.

I was not, and am not 'badgering' you.

Nor have I been 'nasty' in my exchanges with you - nor has any other member as far as I can honestly see.

I have already explained in detail my 'popularity' comments in detail, and at length in my response to Ammi, so - again - I do not understand your complaints about this.

I have had perfectly innocuous posts removed Joey as well - for reasons only known to the Mods, but that issue has absolutely nothing to do with this.

I really feel a sense with you Joey, that you are making a mountain out of a molehill and imagining injury where there is none.

This is my last word on this because it is frankly futile to continue.

Incidentally, I was among the very first to welcome you back onto the forum.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/23/16/article-3864084-39A31C6000000578-203_964x427.jpg
No fella
its your problem - you let Them stay to long there.

[jet]

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

I totally agree Joey.
I am sorry that you don’t post in here as often as you did previously as I find your contributions so interesting and well thought out. I purposely seek them out and Ammi’s (and others) too to read your takes on certain subjects as I can be sure of finding common sense and decency even if I don’t always agree with every word.
I am also sorry that your reply to me was over - analysed and taken as some kind of insult and I am a loss as to why, but I assume you expected such as you mentioned ‘some abuse’ may be forthcoming.
I am clueless about the inside politics of this forum and who is on whose ‘side’ or whatever, or if any individual is indeed ON any side, but these things obviously go on and is the main reason I rarely post in serious debates, I can’t be bothered with that BS as sooner or later you’ll get drawn into it if you feel very passionately about certain subjects. I prefer to stick to the ‘lighter’ forums where you can be at loggerheads with a poster and then forget all about it and even who you were arguing with or what it was about when the next ‘on season’ rolls around. :hee:
I know myself that I get too fired up about some of the stuff in this section. In other words, I don’t like the heat, so I don’t go in the kitchen.
But please Joey, keep using your voice. Your passion and commitment to what you believe in is a great asset to this forum.

[jet]

Another great post Cherie from the Queen of Common Sense. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

As for Jet :laugh: 'She' might be a 'He', in which case I apologise. I think I assumed Jet was female because of some subconscious thoughts of 'Jet' the Gladiator.:blush:

Kirk...I enjoy reading your posts too. I find you go into a good bit of detail and bring up things that make you think about aspects of a subject that didn’t occur to you previously. But that can also mean you can over analyse sometimes - in my humble opinion - which I feel you did with Joey’s posts and I don’t want Joey pushed further away from this section of the forum by his posts being unfairly misinterpreted (which I believe happened in this case) so take heed or I’ll give you this :fist: :hee:

[Cherie]

The :clap1: smilie is getting a right kicking :joker:


I think this notion that there are sides is a bit over exaggerated, Kirk has threatened to put me on ignore more than once, water off a ducks back, as adults I think we should be able to have a heated debate and move on :hee:

[Cherie]

Love you Kirk, I might hate you tomorrow though :hehe:

[bots]

The :clap1: smilie is getting a right kicking :joker:


I think this notion that there are sides is a bit over exaggerated, Kirk has threatened to put me on ignore more than once, water off a ducks back, as adults I think we should be able to have a heated debate and move on :hee:

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[jet]

The :clap1: smilie is getting a right kicking :joker:


I think this notion that there are sides is a bit over exaggerated, Kirk has threatened to put me on ignore more than once, water off a ducks back, as adults I think we should be able to have a heated debate and move on :hee:

Of course Cherie. But jabbing away at someone (Joey) and reading too much into his words isn't debate. It's not really debating the issue in question, it's denigrating the person themselves to some degree, two very different things...
My word, I've had my arguments with Joey. Biggies. We are both passionate in what we feel, but we always move on eventually and there are few people I respect and admire here more than I do him because I 'get' him - and it certainly isn't because I agree with him all the time or because he courts popularity any more than I do. Sycophancy turns my stomach.
As much as I like to read and often enjoy what Kirk has to say too (sorry for referring to you Kirk here but I'm replying to Cherie who mentioned you in her post), with all due respect I feel he was out of line concerning Joey on this one.
My, I've had 2 of the longest posts I've ever made in the serious stuff in Serious Debates today. Enough! Bye. :dog: :laugh:

[jennyjuniper]

...while I don't disagree with what you say Jenny, I guess the way I see it is that funding doesn't appear to go to those things anyway...it didn't appear to before the Calais situation and it hasn't since..that's the thing, we don't have any say in where these things are focused/government money and our taxes...it's never seemed to be any sort of 'either/or' situation to me...money isn't spent where it should be spent..(or where I personally think anyway..)...not nearly enough invested into a bursting at the seams NHS, virtually nothing into mental health of either adults or children...the homelessness not being addressed..in fact the homeless being fined and penalised for being homeless.../I mean how crazy is that and no addressing of these things sufficiently whether the Calais situation exists or not...those people are there though, they're there now and it has to be addressed that they're there because it's basically being ignored in the hope that it'll all just go away and not exist, but it won't will it...and countries passing the buck of responsibility is just avoidance, just get down to the job and sort it out..these are human beings and there but with the grace of God, they could be anyone of us....

I agree wholeheartedly with you Ammi, but what puzzles me is that the people at Calais are already in a free country. Why the urgent need to cross the channel? Could it simply be that Britain is a softer touch than other European countries?
Also why Europe? Other middle eastern countries should be far more welcoming to fellow muslims surely?

[Ammi]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Ammi, but what puzzles me is that the people at Calais are already in a free country. Why the urgent need to cross the channel? Could it simply be that Britain is a softer touch than other European countries?
Also why Europe? Other middle eastern countries should be far more welcoming to fellow muslims surely?

...(my thoughts Jenny..)...is it's just one of those situations that governments/countries haven't want to address or address sufficiently enough so hence the crisis and how it has grown.../just the usual passing the buck of responsibility...well, we've done a bit so now you and well we've done a bit now also.../human lives being passed around in the parcel as it were...I'm sure there are outbursts of hostility as well because I can't imagine the emotions of negativity in having to live day in and day out and month in and month out in such conditions as the migrant camps, it would be hard to keep any type of positivity going and yet some do but those aren't the ones who the media focus on though.../they show the emotions of extreme frustrations with how they're living and say ....LOOK HOW AWFUL THESE PEOPLE ARE...and the people who print these things, how would they be if they were in that situation and living like that.../would they be docile and smiling..?../just ridiculous....

...anyways, as to reasons Jenny..?...it's hard to say because I don't think these things are one size fits all...but many do have some English so maybe the language comes into play, maybe having relatives/friends...maybe feeling the work opportunities could be better here... or just a vision in a head that feels, England a welcoming people and great place and offering something that other countries don't...I guess that people speak about putting the great back into Britain for a reason and maybe we have a far reaching reputation for our greatness as a nation...

[Ammi]

...also Jet...always good to see your lovely face in any section of the forum and at any time..:love:..

[MrJack]

all those poor people :(

If they'd have claimed asylum, they wouldn't be in the camps. No-one else's fault they were waiting to break into Britain.

[Ammi]

..as much as I love France and the French people, it's one of my favourite places in the world..:lovedup:..boy of boy does the French officialdom know bureaucracy...no one throws their hands in the air quite like the French..and dealing with something like this which has become a real crisis...?.Lord oh Lord, how those French heads must have hurt...we're their neighbour and an equal part of the joining of the two countries/an equal part of the uniting so we should be helping out to the maximum that we can..and the feeling I get is that we're more helping to the minimum requirement that would fulfil the quota of saying, ok we've done our bit/are doing our bit so that's that...(and the maximum being still using caution as well...)...we can have both I think...humanity and caution...

[Ammi]

..I just think as people, we roll over too easily and so compliantly to our government ..(and this is all governments worldwide I would think..)..when the propaganda scare factor is brought into play in manipulation of our fears...they say they can't sustain and can't do more than they're doing...ok then fair enough if you say so, we trust you...but without that propaganda of manipulation on other things that we feel are wrong...we kick and we scream and we shout in demonstration and say screw you government...


..all of the money that has been spent in making schools into academies because that was the thing of the moment and our children's future...?...now it's grammar schools, so was all of that pointless and unnecessary spending..?..being told when you have a child/a family who desperately needs help/that are at breaking point..that sorry, no mental health care available today, maybe when something awful happens, we'll put you on our desk for consideration...this was never an 'either/or' deal of 'helping our own' and solving our own problems, that's the thing... Britain closing the door on everyone, where is the Great in that...we want to Brexit and get it back..?...well do something and get it back then...

[Kizzy]

No chance Ammi that won't happen the NIMBYs are conditioned, practically institutionalised, that is what Britain feels like to me these days.. some cold hard sanatorium :/
I recommend a film, 'I, Daniel Blake' about the state of the nation...something has to change, we need an attitudinal shift, and it's not left or right it's deeper than that something needs to change at a base level.
Too many are subscribing to a meritocracy and that goes against any 'moral compass' so many profess to live by.

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/16/10/536x302/ab8f966ebffbec5876dc18c6d5897f7a30676df4622f0b3abf dba86141dd5435_3815854.jpg?20161024075326
This Morning
many are now getting in long lines
for Children, Adults and Unwell.

http://news.sky.com/story/live-mass-evictions-to-begin-in-calais-jungle-10630442

Massive amount of Police are there
of course.

Also tonight on BBC1 Panorama
M&S clothes
are being made in Turkey
by Syria children?

[Kizzy]

A live link

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/oct/24/calais-camp-riot-police-prepare-demolish-refugees-migrant

[Kizzy]

Two Afghan men who had spent several months in the squalid Calais camp, and years travelling, had now decided to go home to Jalalabad. They were awake before dawn and carrying the few possessions they had to register at the vast hanger. France has temporarily increased the aid to people wanting to make the journey home to their countries. Muhammad, 26, said: “I’ve tried. I’ve taken so many risks trying to get on the back of lorries. Better to die in my own country than here under a truck.”


No words ...

[arista]

..as much as I love France and the French people, it's one of my favourite places in the world..:lovedup:..boy of boy does the French officialdom know bureaucracy...no one throws their hands in the air quite like the French..and dealing with something like this which has become a real crisis...?.Lord oh Lord, how those French heads must have hurt...we're their neighbour and an equal part of the joining of the two countries/an equal part of the uniting so we should be helping out to the maximum that we can..and the feeling I get is that we're more helping to the minimum requirement that would fulfil the quota of saying, ok we've done our bit/are doing our bit so that's that...(and the maximum being still using caution as well...)...we can have both I think...humanity and caution...


Its Pure Politics , Ammi

[:: Why is the camp being destroyed?

A number of reasons. Politics is
playing a big part. France is in
election season. The opposition parties
have pledged to deal with the
Jungle problem. That has prompted
President Francois Hollande,
who is not doing well in
the polls, to do the same. ]


http://news.sky.com/story/why-is-the-calais-jungle-being-destroyed-your-questions-answered-10630389

[kirklancaster]

I do not want to go into detail with this response because it hardly seems fair to Joey who is absent.

However, I just need to try to explain certain matters.

I have no problem with Joey as a member or as a person, and though we are on opposite sides of the political coin, I do not have a problem with a lot of his posts either.

It was just this one specific post which - immediately upon reading - I took exception to, because of my perception of what Joey was saying in it.

It is significant that another member independently perceived the post in much the same way that I did.

However, at the time I posted my first response, I did not even try to rationalise just WHY I perceived Joey's post in the way which I had.

It was not until Joey's accusatory response that I then analysed just what it was in his original post which caused me to take umbrage.

Thus, the more detailed and analytical response.

The best way, I can perhaps illustrate what I mean, is to use an analogy:

You are given an essay and asked for your opinions upon it.

You you do so.

THEN - you are asked to EXPLAIN the reasons just why you formed those opinions.

Anyway, thank you JET, it is good to see you on somewhere other than just the CBB and BB threads, but I must assure you that it was Joey's post which I was 'jabbing' at - not Joey.

[kirklancaster]

Love you Kirk, I might hate you tomorrow though :hehe:

:laugh: But then, I will STILL love you anyway, because I am a fool. :hee:

[Ammi]

I do not want to go into detail with this response because it hardly seems fair to Joey who is absent.

However, I just need to try to explain certain matters.

I have no problem with Joey as a member or as a person, and though we are on opposite sides of the political coin, I do not have a problem with a lot of his posts either.

It was just this one specific post which - immediately upon reading - I took exception to, because of my perception of what Joey was saying in it.

It is significant that another member independently perceived the post in much the same way that I did.

However, at the time I posted my first response, I did not even try to rationalise just WHY I perceived Joey's post in the way which I had.

It was not until Joey's accusatory response that I then analysed just what it was in his original post which caused me to take umbrage.

Thus, the more detailed and analytical response.

The best way, I can perhaps illustrate what I mean, is to use an analogy:

You are given an essay and asked for your opinions upon it.

You you do so.

THEN - you are asked to EXPLAIN the reasons just why you formed those opinions.

Anyway, thank you JET, it is good to see you on somewhere other than just the CBB and BB threads, but I must assure you that it was Joey's post which I was 'jabbing' at - not Joey.


..I think Kirk, it is all about perspectives and you took something from Joey's post that wasn't intended in the writing of it.../that happens to all of us doesn't it on occasions...but it was a perspective that I didn't personally have and didn't see what you saw/hence my post also because when something doesn't seem fair and feels personal in some content.../I don't have any perspective other than that and did feel unfair against Joey....you know I will always speak about stuff like that otherwise I wouldn't be being true to myself....that wasn't an attack against you in doing so either, I think you know that...but it is good..(and what I've always said, to step back a bit as well and why it's good to have Jet's take on it as an 'observer' and non participant...)...anyway enough..from me anyway, there is enough on the topic to occupy thoughts and if you and Joey felt that you wanted to discuss more, maybe in private..?.../but that's completely up to you two...

[bots]

Living so close to the channel (its about a 15 minute drive for me), i have been going to France regularly for years. Not only have I seen first hand the change over the years in France, I've seen the change on our side of the channel too.

Nothing stays the same of course, but no-one can say that a constant fight trying to keep illegal immigrants out of the UK is for the better. The camps are not formal, they were created by illegal immigrants so they would be best positioned to try and sneak in to the UK at any possible opportunity.

None of the immigrant centres in France are anywhere near Calais, they have no logical reason to be there other than trying to sneak in to the UK.

What I say may not fit with peoples politics, but it is factual reality. France should have dispersed these camps long ago, before they became centres of attraction for further immigrants that turned them in to the illegal centre it is now. We can't do that, that's for France to sort out, and the action today is long overdue.

[Cherie]

Two Afghan men who had spent several months in the squalid Calais camp, and years travelling, had now decided to go home to Jalalabad. They were awake before dawn and carrying the few possessions they had to register at the vast hanger. France has temporarily increased the aid to people wanting to make the journey home to their countries. Muhammad, 26, said: “I’ve tried. I’ve taken so many risks trying to get on the back of lorries. Better to die in my own country than here under a truck.”


No words ...


Why not claim asylum in France though?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Two Afghan men who had spent several months in the squalid Calais camp, and years travelling, had now decided to go home to Jalalabad. They were awake before dawn and carrying the few possessions they had to register at the vast hanger. France has temporarily increased the aid to people wanting to make the journey home to their countries. Muhammad, 26, said: “I’ve tried. I’ve taken so many risks trying to get on the back of lorries. Better to die in my own country than here under a truck.”


No words ...

Yes he is a migrant who is trying t ojump the queue ahead of people who try legitimately to come to the uk and that is if he is telling the truth.

there, you can have these words for free

[Northern Monkey]

Yes he is a migrant who is trying t ojump the queue ahead of people who try legitimately to come to the uk and that is if he is telling the truth.

there, you can have these words for free

:thumbs:

[Cherie]

Not enough buses to take everyone away today and some numbers are now awol

[MrJack]

Two Afghan men who had spent several months in the squalid Calais camp, and years travelling, had now decided to go home to Jalalabad. They were awake before dawn and carrying the few possessions they had to register at the vast hanger. France has temporarily increased the aid to people wanting to make the journey home to their countries. Muhammad, 26, said: “I’ve tried. I’ve taken so many risks trying to get on the back of lorries. Better to die in my own country than here under a truck.”


No words ...

I like that guy. Hopefully he's a role model.

[Kizzy]

Why not claim asylum in France though?

How would I know? Maybe it isn't an option, I'm not a French official.

[arista]

Not enough buses to take everyone away today and some numbers are now awol
http://e3.365dm.com/16/10/536x302/87ce30ef8d1f05970e30daaceb43b895c41b34e5128fb412e7 203f6c54e18a2b_3815603.jpg?20161023221242

[Northern Monkey]

Why not claim asylum in France though?Benefits are'nt as good over there

[Kizzy]

Benefits are'nt as good over there

So better to die then obv.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How would I know? Maybe it isn't an option, I'm not a French official.

No, and you are not exactly sherlock Holmes neither...

[Kizzy]

Our team on the ground have informed us that The Home Office have not been allowed to register children today. As such, the most vulnerable group, the under 13’s (who would qualify under the Alf Dubs amendment) are being forced to remain in the Calais camp itself amidst all the confusion and chaos.

Our latest census shows there are 49 unaccompanied children in the Calais camp who are 13 years old or under. All are eligible under the Dubs amendment for resettlement in the UK. There are also many unaccompanied girls remaining in camp who are eligible to come to the UK but who were not registered over the weekend.

The shipping containers on site in the Calais camp were emptied of residents at 7am this morning, on the understanding that unaccompanied minors would be housed there until they were properly processed (either sent to the UK under Dubs or family reunification, or suitable accommodation was found for them in France).

However, the minors already living in the containers were also asked to vacate this morning. Some of the children are being asked to go to the warehouse for registration to queue up to then be sent back to the containers. Others are being told registration has stopped for the day.

This chaotic set up is extremely distressing and confusing for the lone minors, the youngest of which is 8 years old (according to our last census). The younger children are struggling to understand where they are supposed to go, and how they are supposed to get there.

Up to a thousand children are expected to be housed in the shipping containers and at present it appears there is nothing in the way of youth workers or social workers to be responsible for, and help calm these young people and children.

[Northern Monkey]

So better to die then obv.

No,Better to get asylum in France or any other safe country they've been through.Unless of course they're not refugees at all.Why do you think Britain is such an attractive prospect?

[Cherie]

How would I know? Maybe it isn't an option, I'm not a French official.

Isn't being at risk of death in your own country one of the main reasons people claim asylum? Of course it's an option if it's true

[Cherie]

Our team on the ground have informed us that The Home Office have not been allowed to register children today. As such, the most vulnerable group, the under 13’s (who would qualify under the Alf Dubs amendment) are being forced to remain in the Calais camp itself amidst all the confusion and chaos.

Our latest census shows there are 49 unaccompanied children in the Calais camp who are 13 years old or under. All are eligible under the Dubs amendment for resettlement in the UK. There are also many unaccompanied girls remaining in camp who are eligible to come to the UK but who were not registered over the weekend.

The shipping containers on site in the Calais camp were emptied of residents at 7am this morning, on the understanding that unaccompanied minors would be housed there until they were properly processed (either sent to the UK under Dubs or family reunification, or suitable accommodation was found for them in France).

However, the minors already living in the containers were also asked to vacate this morning. Some of the children are being asked to go to the warehouse for registration to queue up to then be sent back to the containers. Others are being told registration has stopped for the day.

This chaotic set up is extremely distressing and confusing for the lone minors, the youngest of which is 8 years old (according to our last census). The younger children are struggling to understand where they are supposed to go, and how they are supposed to get there.

Up to a thousand children are expected to be housed in the shipping containers and at present it appears there is nothing in the way of youth workers or social workers to be responsible for, and help calm these young people and children.


Yep they brought over the young fit men and let the kids behind, who is organising this mess

[arista]

No,Better to get asylum in France or any other safe country they've been through.Unless of course they're not refugees at all.Why do you think Britain is such an attractive prospect?


Yes all around France.

[Kizzy]

No,Better to get asylum in France or any other safe country they've been through.Unless of course they're not refugees at all.Why do you think Britain is such an attractive prospect?

Putrid smells, freezing temperatures, no sanitation, no security, and sometimes no hope.

The living conditions in the Calais refugee camp infamously dubbed the Jungle are so bleak that even asking people there why they do not want to stay in France seems odd.

"I do not want to stay in France for the same reason I did not want to stay in my home country. They do not treat us like humans here, they treat us like animals," a 35-year-old from Sudan said.

The man, who wished to remain anonymous, explained that everyone in the Jungle just wants to be treated with dignity and respect — something they feel is not happening in France.


Dignity and respect?... you can tell he hasn't been here yet.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/calais-refugees-why-asylum-france-britain-2016-2

[bots]

Putrid smells, freezing temperatures, no sanitation, no security, and sometimes no hope.

The living conditions in the Calais refugee camp infamously dubbed the Jungle are so bleak that even asking people there why they do not want to stay in France seems odd.

"I do not want to stay in France for the same reason I did not want to stay in my home country. They do not treat us like humans here, they treat us like animals," a 35-year-old from Sudan said.

The man, who wished to remain anonymous, explained that everyone in the Jungle just wants to be treated with dignity and respect — something they feel is not happening in France.


Dignity and respect?... you can tell he hasn't been here yet.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/calais-refugees-why-asylum-france-britain-2016-2


they would be treated with dignity and respect with good facilities if they went to the proper refugee centres in France rather than going to an illegal one in Calais looking for a sneak in to the UK. So the choice was always theirs ... they can't blame anyone but themselves for their living conditions.

[Kizzy]

Yep they brought over the young fit men and let the kids behind, who is organising this mess

Nobody... nobody is organising anything that is the whole issue, where have you got the idea there are no children, have you seen the news today?

[Kizzy]

they would be treated with dignity and respect with good facilities if they went to the proper refugee centres in France rather than going to an illegal one in Calais looking for a sneak in to the UK. So the choice was always theirs ... they can't blame anyone but themselves for their living conditions.

And who is to blame for the conditions in the detention centres?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Our team on the ground have informed us that The Home Office have not been allowed to register children today. As such, the most vulnerable group, the under 13’s (who would qualify under the Alf Dubs amendment) are being forced to remain in the Calais camp itself amidst all the confusion and chaos.

Our latest census shows there are 49 unaccompanied children in the Calais camp who are 13 years old or under. All are eligible under the Dubs amendment for resettlement in the UK. There are also many unaccompanied girls remaining in camp who are eligible to come to the UK but who were not registered over the weekend.

The shipping containers on site in the Calais camp were emptied of residents at 7am this morning, on the understanding that unaccompanied minors would be housed there until they were properly processed (either sent to the UK under Dubs or family reunification, or suitable accommodation was found for them in France).

However, the minors already living in the containers were also asked to vacate this morning. Some of the children are being asked to go to the warehouse for registration to queue up to then be sent back to the containers. Others are being told registration has stopped for the day.

This chaotic set up is extremely distressing and confusing for the lone minors, the youngest of which is 8 years old (according to our last census). The younger children are struggling to understand where they are supposed to go, and how they are supposed to get there.

Up to a thousand children are expected to be housed in the shipping containers and at present it appears there is nothing in the way of youth workers or social workers to be responsible for, and help calm these young people and children.

What are u quoting?

[bots]

And who is to blame for the conditions in the detention centres?

When did it become a UK issue what conditions there are in FRENCH immigration centres. Its none of our business. I repeat again, immigrants to France have always had the option to go to the available immigration centres in France, it was their choice, and theirs alone to rough it at an illegal camp.

[Cherie]

Nobody... nobody is organising anything that is the whole issue, where have you got the idea there are no children, have you seen the news today?

I'm pointing out the fact that they brought over young men whose age was clearly suspect while leaving kids as young as 8 behind, the youngest should have been prioritised and then the rest





Last week, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, told MPs the French authorities had agreed to verify a list of 387 child refugees with a legal right to come to the UK drawn up by Citizens UK. “Once we have that official list we will move quickly within days and remove very quickly those children,” she said.

Earlier on Monday, Rowan Williams said the safety of up to 400 unaccompanied children stranded in the Calais refugee camp was being put at risk by the government’s “foot-dragging”. The former archbishop of Canterbury said the time was short for the remainder because of the imminent dismantling of the site.


Charity takes legal action against Home Office over child refugees
Read more
He described the refugee children as “extraordinarily vulnerable” who were trapped in the “chaos of the camp and the chaos of the demolition”. Williams called on the government to expedite the cases of up to 400 children remaining in Calais. “I’m not sure why there is such foot-dragging,” he said at Croydon Minster. “The clock is ticking, the likelihood is the Calais camp will be demolished in the next 10 days.”

The Home Office said the group of 14 who arrived on Monday were among about 100 to be resettled in the UK. They came from countries including Syria, Afghanistan and Kuwait’s stateless Bidoon community. The department confirmed that the children, aged 14-17, were transferred on Monday morning. They will be assessed and screened and may be cared for in specialist accommodation before being reunited with their relatives.

However, Tina Brocklebank, a volunteer who has been conducting refugee counts with the charity L’Auberge des Migrants, said the most vulnerable children in Calais could miss out on being helped amid what she called a confusing census carried out by another charity, France Terre d’Asile
She said: “FTDA registered a very small number of children on Friday and then shut the gate and told everyone to come back on Monday. It’s a despicable way to build up hopes, withhold and keep changing information and confuse everybody. We are concerned that buses may at some point arrive for the children, and the ypushy ones will get on while the most vulnerable ones will still be hiding in their shelters and tents – either because they don’t know what’s going on or will be too scared to get on a bus.”

The French interior minister has warned of a damaging blame game between his country and the UK over the Calais refugee crisis, with accusations of selfishness and inhumanity preventing action being taken to support vulnerable individuals.

Writing in the Guardian, Bernard Cazeneuve said there had been a litany of misunderstandings between the two countries but added that there was now an urgent need for a common outlook to tackle a situation “everyone agrees is a disaster”.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When did it become a UK issue what conditions there are in FRENCH immigration centres. Its none of our business. I repeat again, immigrants to France have always had the option to go to the available immigration centres in France, it was their choice, and theirs alone to rough it at an illegal camp.

And the reason it's there is that they could jump a lorry and get into England illegally

I mean you couldn't make it up

[Kizzy]

What are u quoting?

The live link I posted this morning.

[Kizzy]

When did it become a UK issue what conditions there are in FRENCH immigration centres. Its none of our business. I repeat again, immigrants to France have always had the option to go to the available immigration centres in France, it was their choice, and theirs alone to rough it at an illegal camp.

I didn't say it was our issue, it may be a contributory factor to them not wanting to go there, stay in France or carry on their journey to the UK however.

[arista]

the Bulldozing starts tomorrow

[Kizzy]

I'm pointing out the fact that they brought over young men whose age was clearly suspect while leaving kids as young as 8 behind, the youngest should have been prioritised and then the rest





Last week, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, told MPs the French authorities had agreed to verify a list of 387 child refugees with a legal right to come to the UK drawn up by Citizens UK. “Once we have that official list we will move quickly within days and remove very quickly those children,” she said.

Earlier on Monday, Rowan Williams said the safety of up to 400 unaccompanied children stranded in the Calais refugee camp was being put at risk by the government’s “foot-dragging”. The former archbishop of Canterbury said the time was short for the remainder because of the imminent dismantling of the site.


Charity takes legal action against Home Office over child refugees
Read more
He described the refugee children as “extraordinarily vulnerable” who were trapped in the “chaos of the camp and the chaos of the demolition”. Williams called on the government to expedite the cases of up to 400 children remaining in Calais. “I’m not sure why there is such foot-dragging,” he said at Croydon Minster. “The clock is ticking, the likelihood is the Calais camp will be demolished in the next 10 days.”

The Home Office said the group of 14 who arrived on Monday were among about 100 to be resettled in the UK. They came from countries including Syria, Afghanistan and Kuwait’s stateless Bidoon community. The department confirmed that the children, aged 14-17, were transferred on Monday morning. They will be assessed and screened and may be cared for in specialist accommodation before being reunited with their relatives.

However, Tina Brocklebank, a volunteer who has been conducting refugee counts with the charity L’Auberge des Migrants, said the most vulnerable children in Calais could miss out on being helped amid what she called a confusing census carried out by another charity, France Terre d’Asile
She said: “FTDA registered a very small number of children on Friday and then shut the gate and told everyone to come back on Monday. It’s a despicable way to build up hopes, withhold and keep changing information and confuse everybody. We are concerned that buses may at some point arrive for the children, and the ypushy ones will get on while the most vulnerable ones will still be hiding in their shelters and tents – either because they don’t know what’s going on or will be too scared to get on a bus.”

The French interior minister has warned of a damaging blame game between his country and the UK over the Calais refugee crisis, with accusations of selfishness and inhumanity preventing action being taken to support vulnerable individuals.

Writing in the Guardian, Bernard Cazeneuve said there had been a litany of misunderstandings between the two countries but added that there was now an urgent need for a common outlook to tackle a situation “everyone agrees is a disaster”.

The men photographed were said to be interpreters, buts lets focus on the narrative, how would you use this emotive issue to turn public support away from the plight of unaccompanied children in a desperate situation?... Easy, you use the media to question whether those coming are in fact children.
Once there has been a seed of doubt placed it festers in the minds of those so conditioned that they can no longer process what is real and what is manufactured to influence mass perception.

There is nothing and nowhere for these children, and both countries in this human ping pong disaster should hang their heads in shame.

[Northern Monkey]

Daily Politics earlier was reporting from The Jungle and alot of these migrants won't get on the busses to go and be processed because they don't want to leave Calais and go further into France and more importantly further away from the UK.The only reason they are in that camp in Calais is to try to get into Britain.If these were genuine refugees escaping a war zone France,Germany,Belgium,Holland or Turkey would be a more than good enough safe countries to claim asylum and live happily in.We should take those poor kids and home them here and then take only real refugees from the camps.It certainly looks like the majority of these men(which they all looked to be men) are economic migrants trying to get over here illegally.

[Johnnyuk123]

If anyone would like to help a refugee in crisis you can actually do something about it to help them by registering here...

https://paih.typeform.com/to/dl4g60?

[Kizzy]

Daily Politics earlier was reporting from The Jungle and alot of these migrants won't get on the busses to go and be processed because they don't want to leave Calais and go further into France and more importantly further away from the UK.The only reason they are in that camp in Calais is to try to get into Britain.If these were genuine refugees escaping a war zone France,Germany,Belgium,Holland or Turkey would be a more than good enough safe countries to claim asylum and live happily in.We should take those poor kids and home them here and then take only real refugees from the camps.It certainly looks like the majority of these men(which they all looked to be men) are economic migrants trying to get over here illegally.

Really, odd because all the pics and video I've seen is of orderly queues...

Do you have a link to the report?

[Northern Monkey]

Really, odd because all the pics and video I've seen is of orderly queues...

Do you have a link to the report?

Watch todays Daily Politics.It said many of them wouldn't get on the busses because it would take them further into France and further away "from there dream of coming to the UK"

[Kizzy]

Watch todays Daily Politics.It said many of them wouldn't get on the busses because it would take them further into France and further away "from there dream of coming to the UK"

I've already posted a quote from a guy saying more or less the same thing... The fallacy is that they will be treated better here with respect... we both know that's not going to happen, they obviously don't.

'They want to come here for benefits or blow us up...blah blah infinitum'.

[bots]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8D79/production/_92071263_poster.jpg

[Cherie]

The men photographed were said to be interpreters, buts lets focus on the narrative, how would you use this emotive issue to turn public support away from the plight of unaccompanied children in a desperate situation?... Easy, you use the media to question whether those coming are in fact children.
Once there has been a seed of doubt placed it festers in the minds of those so conditioned that they can no longer process what is real and what is manufactured to influence mass perception.

There is nothing and nowhere for these children, and both countries in this human ping pong disaster should hang their heads in shame.

‘Mature’ migrant is not translator, says Home Office
Richard Ford, Home Correspondent
October 20 2016, 12:00pm,
The Times

Concerns were voiced over the age of this newly arrived “child migrant” but the Home Office said some may look older because they had fled war zones
PETER MACDIARMID/LONDON NEWS PICTURES
A mature-looking male pictured arriving in Britain from the Jungle camp in Calais is a teenage migrant and not an adult translator, the Home Office has confirmed.

It had been suggested that he was an interpreter travelling with unaccompanied child asylum seekers.

Officials confirmed this was not the case but refused to comment on his status.

Whitehall sources told The Times that the man was one of a group of child migrants said to be aged 14 to 18 who were brought over from Calais this week.

The picture of him arriving at the Home Office’s Lunar House in Croydon…



My thought processes are fine, what I want it know is why that age group were prioritised over younger children

[Kizzy]

‘Mature’ migrant is not translator, says Home Office
Richard Ford, Home Correspondent
October 20 2016, 12:00pm,
The Times

Concerns were voiced over the age of this newly arrived “child migrant” but the Home Office said some may look older because they had fled war zones
PETER MACDIARMID/LONDON NEWS PICTURES
A mature-looking male pictured arriving in Britain from the Jungle camp in Calais is a teenage migrant and not an adult translator, the Home Office has confirmed.

It had been suggested that he was an interpreter travelling with unaccompanied child asylum seekers.

Officials confirmed this was not the case but refused to comment on his status.

Whitehall sources told The Times that the man was one of a group of child migrants said to be aged 14 to 18 who were brought over from Calais this week.

The picture of him arriving at the Home Office’s Lunar House in Croydon…



My thought processes are fine, what I want it know is why that age group were prioritised over younger children

This is the crux of my point, I am suggesting that this subterfuge and the choice of refugee/unknown origin immigrant has been structured with a divisive intent to create uncertainty, confusion and doubt in the minds of the public against child refugees.

Case in point, who are these children, are these even children?
Massive media coverage to disguise the fact that many unaccompanied children have not been processed as agreed.

[Kizzy]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8D79/production/_92071263_poster.jpg

Ah British humour, when in doubt, mock. :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8D79/production/_92071263_poster.jpg

:joker:

[Kizzy]

It is extremely welcome to see vulnerable children who have been trapped in Calais reaching safe haven in the UK over the last week. But, as night falls in Calais tonight, we are deeply concerned for the fate of hundreds of children who remain and who do not know where they will sleep tonight and have no information on what tomorrow will bring.

It is unacceptable that the French operation to demolish the camp, which has been planned for weeks, now risks putting vulnerable children at greater risk.

Disgraceful.

[Cherie]

It is extremely welcome to see vulnerable children who have been trapped in Calais reaching safe haven in the UK over the last week. But, as night falls in Calais tonight, we are deeply concerned for the fate of hundreds of children who remain and who do not know where they will sleep tonight and have no information on what tomorrow will bring.

It is unacceptable that the French operation to demolish the camp, which has been planned for weeks, now risks putting vulnerable children at greater risk.

Disgraceful.

Yes it is disgraceful from The French, they couldn't even add up how buses were needed

[Cherie]

This is the crux of my point, I am suggesting that this subterfuge and the choice of refugee/unknown origin immigrant has been structured with a divisive intent to create uncertainty, confusion and doubt in the minds of the public against child refugees.

Case in point, who are these children, are these even children?
Massive media coverage to disguise the fact that many unaccompanied children have not been processed as agreed.

I haven't seen or heard anyone on this forum or outside it have any problem with unaccompanied minors being taken in, the crux really is that they are being left behind and the number agreed in is bring filled up by older refugees as the people processing take the easy route and fill the places available with anyone who vaguely fits the term refugee

[kirklancaster]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8D79/production/_92071263_poster.jpg

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: BRILLIANT. Wet meself. :hee:

[kirklancaster]

This is the crux of my point, I am suggesting that this subterfuge and the choice of refugee/unknown origin immigrant has been structured with a divisive intent to create uncertainty, confusion and doubt in the minds of the public against child refugees.
e
Case in point, who are these children, are these even children?
Massive media coverage to disguise the fact that many unaccompanied children have not been processed as agreed.

Shouldn't we be questioning JUST WHY children as young as 8 ARE 'unaccompanied'? As well as JUST HOW they managed to travel many hundreds of miles through strange and foreign countries to get to Calais?

Shouldn't we be examining whether this is yet another 'ploy' by economic migrants who are so desperate to secure entry into the UK they simply hand their children over to uncle Ahmed to take them with him on his long trek to Calais, knowing that we British WILL eventually take in the children, thereby setting a legal precedence for them to later be also allowed entry because of 'family ties'. (Uncle Ahmed will obviously have to keep 'Stum' about his relationship though for this to be viable)

[kirklancaster]

Ah British humour, when in doubt, mock. :laugh:

I don't think that ANY of us are in ANY doubt that a lot of these 'children' ARE in fact NOT children, so what doubt are you referring to?

Incidentally, MOST jokes and humour are based on misfortune or tragic occurrences.

No one is mocking any genuine refugees - only the ludicrousness of a totally incredible, unbelievable, situation where some 'WET' bleedin' heart UK 'official bodies' are EXPECTING us to SWALLOW the B.S. that some of these '30 somethings' are 'children'.

If they are children they must have been birthed at 17 years of age.

[kirklancaster]

‘Mature’ migrant is not translator, says Home Office
Richard Ford, Home Correspondent
October 20 2016, 12:00pm,
The Times

Concerns were voiced over the age of this newly arrived “child migrant” but the Home Office said some may look older because they had fled war zones
PETER MACDIARMID/LONDON NEWS PICTURES
A mature-looking male pictured arriving in Britain from the Jungle camp in Calais is a teenage migrant and not an adult translator, the Home Office has confirmed.

It had been suggested that he was an interpreter travelling with unaccompanied child asylum seekers.

Officials confirmed this was not the case but refused to comment on his status.

Whitehall sources told The Times that the man was one of a group of child migrants said to be aged 14 to 18 who were brought over from Calais this week.

The picture of him arriving at the Home Office’s Lunar House in Croydon…



My thought processes are fine, what I want it know is why that age group were prioritised over younger children


Sorry Cherie - here comes some more of those 'overworked clap emoticons'. :hee:

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

Yes it is disgraceful from The French, they couldn't even add up how buses were needed

Should it have been 100% their responsibility?

[Kizzy]

I haven't seen or heard anyone on this forum or outside it have any problem with unaccompanied minors being taken in, the crux really is that they are being left behind and the number agreed in is bring filled up by older refugees as the people processing take the easy route and fill the places available with anyone who vaguely fits the term refugee

'Shouldn't we be questioning JUST WHY children as young as 8 ARE 'unaccompanied'? As well as JUST HOW they managed to travel many hundreds of miles through strange and foreign countries to get to Calais?

Shouldn't we be examining whether this is yet another 'ploy' by economic migrants who are so desperate to secure entry into the UK they simply hand their children over to uncle Ahmed to take them with him on his long trek to Calais, knowing that we British WILL eventually take in the children, thereby setting a legal precedence for them to later be also allowed entry because of 'family ties'. (Uncle Ahmed will obviously have to keep 'Stum' about his relationship though for this to be viable)'


There you go, there's one.

[Kizzy]

I don't think that ANY of us are in ANY doubt that a lot of these 'children' ARE in fact NOT children, so what doubt are you referring to?

Incidentally, MOST jokes and humour are based on misfortune or tragic occurrences.

No one is mocking any genuine refugees - only the ludicrousness of a totally incredible, unbelievable, situation where some 'WET' bleedin' heart UK 'official bodies' are EXPECTING us to SWALLOW the B.S. that some of these '30 somethings' are 'children'.

If they are children they must have been birthed at 17 years of age.

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

[Kizzy]

Hundreds of refugee children are to be brought from Calais to Britain in the next three weeks but one in four councils in England, including Theresa May’s own, says they cannot take responsibility for them.

As the French clearance operation got under way at the Calais refugee camp, the home secretary told MPs that 800 children claiming family links with Britain have been interviewed by Home Office officials in the camp in the past week.

Amber Rudd said that almost 200 children have been brought to Britain in recent days, including 60 girls under the Dubs amendment, which is designed to protect vulnerable child refugees across Europe. But 38 councils out of 156 in England have so far refused to take part in resettling those who have arrived.

Shameful.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No links make your posts meaningless

[Kizzy]

No links make your posts meaningless

Ok... they are updates from the link I have already posted on the thread but that's fine.

[kirklancaster]

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

It is ludicrous to always claim 'orchestrated media propaganda' whenever their is reportage which does not suit one's own ideologies - totally, wholly ridiculous.

The very real, wholly irrefutable facts ARE, that not only are SOME devious ADULT, MALE, 'would-be' illegal immigrants, posing as children to gain access into the UK, but also that SOME wet, bleeding heart idiotic UK do-gooders are DECEITFULLY complicit in the fraud too.

I would also advise you that THERE IS NOT ONE TRUE REFUGEE IN THOSE CAMPS so your post is misleading on more than just the Media propaganda claim.

As Peter Hitchens so correctly pointed out, EVEN a GENUINE refugee ceases to be that once he has reached a safe country which affords sanctuary.

If that EX-refugee then decides to spurn that offer of sanctuary and travel through other safe countries to reach a specific destination, he then becomes a plain old simple MIGRANT.

Those residents of the Calais camps were there SOLELY because they ELECTED to be there.

Of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been genuine refugees anyway, just plain old simple would be illegal immigrants into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons.

And of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been WOMEN and CHILDREN - the majority of them since 1999 being fit, able-bodied MALES in the 17 to 38 year old age bracket.

They CHOSE to avoid APPLYING FOR ASYLUM in any of the many Official Processing Centres in EVERY safe country which most of them passed through to get to Calais, because they KNEW that they were NOT genuine refugees and that applying and being refused Asylum or Refugee status would mean the OFFICIAL end of their UK residential ambitions.

By the way, this post of mine is not about any genuine unaccompanied children, of whom I have already stated SHOULD be rescued by us from those camps and given a new home within the UK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

There are NO refugees there

How hard is this to understand?

[Northern Monkey]

It is extremely welcome to see vulnerable children who have been trapped in Calais reaching safe haven in the UK over the last week. But, as night falls in Calais tonight, we are deeply concerned for the fate of hundreds of children who remain and who do not know where they will sleep tonight and have no information on what tomorrow will bring.

It is unacceptable that the French operation to demolish the camp, which has been planned for weeks, now risks putting vulnerable children at greater risk.

Disgraceful.I agree with this.Those kids should've been out well before the camp was dismantled.

[Cherie]

Should it have been 100% their responsibility?

It's on French soil so they will have control over logistics, I can't imagine them handing that over to the UK seeing as the camp residents are being bussed to various Areas in France. The UK are handling the movement of minors who have links to the UK but the French suspended that for 24 hours so they are in control

[Kizzy]

It's on French soil so they will have control over logistics, I can't imagine them handing that over to the UK seeing as the camp residents are being bussed to various Areas in France. The UK are handling the movement of minors who have links to the UK but the French suspended that for 24 hours so they are in control

Our govt has been aware of the situation, the timescales involved and the dubs amendment.. they were, as always woefully ill prepared but what did we expect? #brexit

[Kizzy]

There are NO refugees there

How hard is this to understand?

ok

[Kizzy]

It is ludicrous to always claim 'orchestrated media propaganda' whenever their is reportage which does not suit one's own ideologies - totally, wholly ridiculous.

The very real, wholly irrefutable facts ARE, that not only are SOME devious ADULT, MALE, 'would-be' illegal immigrants, posing as children to gain access into the UK, but also that SOME wet, bleeding heart idiotic UK do-gooders are DECEITFULLY complicit in the fraud too.

I would also advise you that THERE IS NOT ONE TRUE REFUGEE IN THOSE CAMPS so your post is misleading on more than just the Media propaganda claim.

As Peter Hitchens so correctly pointed out, EVEN a GENUINE refugee ceases to be that once he has reached a safe country which affords sanctuary.

If that EX-refugee then decides to spurn that offer of sanctuary and travel through other safe countries to reach a specific destination, he then becomes a plain old simple MIGRANT.

Those residents of the Calais camps were there SOLELY because they ELECTED to be there.

Of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been genuine refugees anyway, just plain old simple would be illegal immigrants into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons.

And of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been WOMEN and CHILDREN - the majority of them since 1999 being fit, able-bodied MALES in the 17 to 38 year old age bracket.

They CHOSE to avoid APPLYING FOR ASYLUM in any of the many Official Processing Centres in EVERY safe country which most of them passed through to get to Calais, because they KNEW that they were NOT genuine refugees and that applying and being refused Asylum or Refugee status would mean the OFFICIAL end of their UK residential ambitions.

By the way, this post of mine is not about any genuine unaccompanied children, of whom I have already stated SHOULD be rescued by us from those camps and given a new home within the UK.

As the subject of the post you quoted is indeed child refugees it's refreshing to see you in total agreement here.

[kirklancaster]

As the subject of the post you quoted is indeed child refugees it's refreshing to see you in total agreement here.

Thank you, but it was necessary to point out the immense - but seemingly continually overlooked - difference, between the words; 'Refugee' and 'Illegal Economic Immigrant', and 'Genuine Child' and 'Skanking Adult Pretend Child'.

[Kizzy]

Thank you, but it was necessary to point out the immense - but seemingly continually overlooked - difference, between the words; 'Refugee' and 'Illegal Economic Immigrant', and 'Genuine Child' and 'Skanking Adult Pretend Child'.

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

[Cherie]

Our govt has been aware of the situation, the timescales involved and the dubs amendment.. they were, as always woefully ill prepared but what did we expect? #brexit

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

[kirklancaster]

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

Never let the facts get in the way of a good ole anti-UK non-argument. :shrug:

[Cherie]

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

That's untrue I've heard a few radio interviews now where the agencies involved have been asked directly about the ages of the "children" brought over, where the question has been dodged and finally answered with 14 to 18 bracket, yet we are still told there are kids as young as 8 in the camp but seemlngly its okay to overlook an 8 year old so an 18 year old can get on the bus

[kirklancaster]

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

There is no debate without objectivity, rationality, and a degree of impartiality. Bye.

[Ammi]

..this became a humanitarian crisis a long time ago..it's obvious that buck passing of responsibility hasn't solved anything/responsibility has no bearing on humanitarian../politics and bureaucracy have no bearing on humanitarian..it should never have come to this, not ever...there should not still be anyone there who is a 'problem'...these are human beings and whatever their reasons for being there or what age they are...it's just a sad indication for me off of desensitisation of human beings whose lives can't be related to as being able to imagine anything they've gone through or striven for...

[Cherie]

..this became a humanitarian crisis a long time ago..it's obvious that buck passing of responsibility hasn't solved anything/responsibility has no bearing on humanitarian../politics and bureaucracy have no bearing on humanitarian..it should never have come to this, not ever...there should not still be anyone there who is a 'problem'...these are human beings and whatever their reasons for being there or what age they are...it's just a sad indication for me off of desensitisation of human beings whose lives can't be related to as being able to imagine anything they've gone through or striven for...

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

[Ammi]

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

..I'm not telling you that you're desensitised Cherie...I'm saying that desensitisation of human beings is a huge factor here (in my opinion..)..because if it wasn't this would not have been allowed to be the crisis that it has become and there would be no questions to be asked....

[Cherie]

..I'm not telling you that you're desensitised Cherie...I'm saying that desensitisation of human beings is a huge factor here (in my opinion..)..because if it wasn't this would not have been allowed to be the crisis that it has become and there would be no questions to be asked....

Oh right :laugh: my apologies, unfortunately I think another camp will spring up again somewhere else, there is already a camp with about a 1000 people in it a few miles away, I think many jungle residents were more than happy to leave yesterday as it had become very dangerous, unless these smaller camps are addressed now we will be doing the same thing again in 5 years time, that is if the world as we know it is still in place :unsure:

[kirklancaster]

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366202.jpg?w=960&strip=all
LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000259267670.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365922.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365615.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366150.jpg?w=804&strip=all

Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent £5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving £2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366607.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365679.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365640.jpg?w=960&strip=all

At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for £3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around £3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (£100 to £120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366186.jpg?w=960&strip=all
He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366197.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365917.jpg?w=960&strip=all


[Crimson Dynamo]

How does a 10 year old from Afghanistan get to calais with no parents?

[kirklancaster]

How does a 10 year old from Afghanistan get to calais with no parents?

With his Uncle Ahmed to look after him, who will of course, not reveal any relationship to the authorities.

Once in the UK, the child's parents back home have an automatic rights to come here under the 'family ties' rule.

Once they are here, their relatives back home have also the same rights.

etc etc. etc.

[Ammi]

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366202.jpg?w=960&strip=all
LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000259267670.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365922.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365615.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366150.jpg?w=804&strip=all

Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent £5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving £2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366607.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365679.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365640.jpg?w=960&strip=all

At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for £3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around £3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (£100 to £120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366186.jpg?w=960&strip=all
He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366197.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365917.jpg?w=960&strip=all




...Kirk I clarified to Cherie exactly what I meant that desensitisation to human beings is apparent with this because otherwise the situation now would not be happening and the crisis would never have reached crisis scenario...we all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions and we take our own ownership for those...no one is unfairly manoeuvring into a position of defensiveness, no one has the power to do that with a free thought or opinion of anyone else... what you feel and your thoughts are exactly that and no one is making or attempting to make you feel any differently...as I say, we take complete ownership of everything we feel and what our thoughts are...and there are many truths I should say in most things and everyone speaks their own truth...I have nothing more to add to the thread....

[Northern Monkey]

This crisis has reached crisis scenario because an awful lot of non refugees have paid people smugglers to bring them into Europe to try and get them into the UK.Its clear that the residents of The Jungle only travelled all the way through Europe to Calais to come to the UK.That's why it's there.The real regugees are stuck in refugee camps waiting for help while these economic migrants are slowing that whole process down.Also these adults posing as children are despicable when they know that there are actual children in there who are vulnerable.The real children need getting out of there and then our government needs to get on with helping the actual refugees in the real refugee camps.

[kirklancaster]

...Kirk I clarified to Cherie exactly what I meant that desensitisation to human beings is apparent with this because otherwise the situation now would not be happening and the crisis would never have reached crisis scenario...we all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions and we take our own ownership for those...no one is unfairly manoeuvring into a position of defensiveness, no one has the power to do that with a free thought or opinion of anyone else... what you feel and your thoughts are exactly that and no one is making or attempting to make you feel any differently...as I say, we take complete ownership of everything we feel and what our thoughts are...and there are many truths I should say in most things and everyone speaks their own truth...I have nothing more to add to the thread....

Ammi - I do not know what is happening with us two, but if I had been addressing my post to you, I would have quoted you.

Though Cherie posed the question to you in reaction to a post by you, I did not have you in mind at all when I posted my response to her question.

My response to her and what followed was more in respect of other posts which have been on the thread before you even entered the 'debate'.

I saw your perfectly valid explanation to Cherie BEFORE I pressed to submit my post, but did NOT edit my post because there was no need, because in my mind I was not specifically referring to you nor addressing you in my response to Cherie.

If you believe that any of my critical comments were specifically addressed to you because they 'fitted' your own particular viewpoints, then that is at best coincidental, and at worst subliminal on my part.

I am only too aware that we 'all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions' and I just wish that certain others would remember that when it comes to taking undue and extreme umbrage at some of my thoughts and views.

I have never ever tried to browbeat anyone into changing their opinion, and - as my many comprehensive posts will attest - whether supporting a premise on here, or challenging it, I merely write with sincerity and passion about what I believe, and usually support my opinions with facts and figures in the true spirit of genuine debate.

[kirklancaster]

This crisis has reached crisis scenario because an awful lot of non refugees have paid people smugglers to bring them into Europe to try and get them into the UK.Its clear that the residents of The Jungle only travelled all the way through Europe to Calais to come to the UK.That's why it's there.The real refugees are stuck in refugee camps waiting for help while these economic migrants are slowing that whole process down.Also these adults posing as children are despicable when they know that there are actual children in there who are vulnerable.The real children need getting out of there and then our government needs to get on with helping the actual refugees in the real refugee camps.

EXACTLY - Well said Paul.

[Ammi]

Ammi - I do not know what is happening with us two, but if I had been addressing my post to you, I would have quoted you.

Though Cherie posed the question to you in reaction to a post by you, I did not have you in mind at all when I posted my response to her question.

My response to her and what followed was more in respect of other posts which have been on the thread before you even entered the 'debate'.

I saw your perfectly valid explanation to Cherie BEFORE I pressed to submit my post, but did NOT edit my post because there was no need, because in my mind I was not specifically referring to you nor addressing you in my response to Cherie.

If you believe that any of my critical comments were specifically addressed to you because they 'fitted' your own particular viewpoints, then that is at best coincidental, and at worst subliminal on my part.

I am only too aware that we 'all have our own free thoughts and our own free opinions' and I just wish that certain others would remember that when it comes to taking undue and extreme umbrage at some of my thoughts and views.

I have never ever tried to browbeat anyone into changing their opinion, and - as my many comprehensive posts will attest - whether supporting a premise on here, or challenging it, I merely write with sincerity and passion about what I believe, and usually support my opinions with facts and figures in the true spirit of genuine debate.


...(ok, most definitely last post in the thread ..)...nothing is happening to you and I Kirk....with respect you and I have no importance at all, only the migrants and refugees in Calais are of importance...we differ in our thoughts on many things and that's just as it is...and it really doesn't matter whether you were referring to my post or not even if it was quoting a response to my post...you have your truths on the migrant camp's dissolving in Calais and I have my truths and that's perfectly fine...but what isn't a truth my friend is that any opinions are attempted to be manoeuvred in any way or that there has been a cause for any defensive positions to be had...not anywhere in the thread...our thoughts/our opinions/our truths are our own and no one else has any control over them whatsoever... and that is the only truth in regards that...

[kirklancaster]

...(ok, most definitely last post in the thread ..)...nothing is happening to you and I Kirk....with respect you and I have no importance at all, only the migrants and refugees in Calais are of importance...we differ in our thoughts on many things and that's just as it is...and it really doesn't matter whether you were referring to my post or not even if it was quoting a response to my post...you have your truths on the migrant camp's dissolving in Calais and I have my truths and that's perfectly fine...but what isn't a truth my friend is that any opinions are attempted to be manoeuvred in any way or that there has been a cause for any defensive positions to be had...not anywhere in the thread...our thoughts/our opinions/our truths are our own and no one else has any control over them whatsoever... and that is the only truth in regards that...

No problem Ammi, but I will stand by my claim which I have emboldened below, except I will clarify that I was not specifically referring to just this thread, but on many threads in Serious Debates - especially ones where the subject is 'Immigration'.

"Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others."

[Crimson Dynamo]

Agreed Kirk, look at the idiotic tweet made by Gary Linekar

So lazy to just play the race card

[Ammi]

No problem Ammi, but I will stand by my claim which I have emboldened below, except I will clarify that I was not specifically referring to just this thread, but on many threads in Serious Debates - especially ones where the subject is 'Immigration'.

"Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others."

...hawwww Kirk...it really doesn't matter...if there are problems/issues in SD...then to begin a post in the vein that you did directed at anyone in the thread, is only becoming part of the problems/issues...do you not see that...because it actually attacks rather than defends anyway..not that anything ever needed a defence because it didn't...

[Kizzy]

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

[Kizzy]

That's untrue I've heard a few radio interviews now where the agencies involved have been asked directly about the ages of the "children" brought over, where the question has been dodged and finally answered with 14 to 18 bracket, yet we are still told there are kids as young as 8 in the camp but seemlngly its okay to overlook an 8 year old so an 18 year old can get on the bus

So you say... But where is it, where is the documented rational, impartial, objective proof?

[Johnnyuk123]

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366202.jpg?w=960&strip=all
LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000259267670.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365922.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365615.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366150.jpg?w=804&strip=all

Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent £5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving £2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366607.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365679.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365640.jpg?w=960&strip=all

At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for £3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around £3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (£100 to £120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366186.jpg?w=960&strip=all
He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260366197.jpg?w=960&strip=all

Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/nintchdbpict000260365917.jpg?w=960&strip=all


Excellent detailed post Kirk. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

But I did notice that you left one thing out....
The WIFI charging Area. Where they can recharge their new apple iphones and ipads.:hee:

[Cherie]

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

The UK were only allowed into the camp in the last week to locate the minors, where is the equality in that? the UK are contributing 39 million to help clear the camp, and relocate the migrants, as well as taking over half of the minors

[Cherie]

So you say... But where is it, where is the documented rational, impartial, objective proof?


Well you could say the same for your argument, where is your proof that the UK aren't doing their bit ?

[Kizzy]

'The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.'

My opinion is great, but it is just that, my opinion, not that it's ever been backed up with facts or anything....


https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/may/23/daily-mail-publishes-correction-to-misleading-eu-migrants-story

[bots]

It's a border... we have equal responsibility.
There are agreements made between countries, also we have a duty to aid both the people in the camps and the French, that is key here.

Its not on our side of the border though, so responsibility is not equal. We have no jurisdiction on French soil, and the illegal camp is on French soil, not UK soil.

I have to say, with winter approaching fast, if we are concerned about humanitarian issues, we should be looking at our homeless in the UK. They have far less protection, security and facilities available to them than the immigrants on French soil. We actually have no duty what so ever to look after anyone in the French camps.

[Cherie]

Its not on our side of the border though, so responsibility is not equal. We have no jurisdiction on French soil, and the illegal camp is on French soil, not UK soil.

I have to say, with winter approaching fast, if we are concerned about humanitarian issues, we should be looking at our homeless in the UK. They have far less protection, security and facilities available to them than the immigrants on French soil. We actually have no duty what so ever to look after anyone in the French camps.

:clap2: we have camps under the North Circular, who is helping them?

[Kizzy]

The UK were only allowed into the camp in the last week to locate the minors, where is the equality in that? the UK are contributing 39 million to help clear the camp, and relocate the migrants, as well as taking over half of the minors

Many charities involved (UK and French) have been well aware of the numbers and locations of the unaccompanied child refugees for a very long time Cherie.
I'm sorry but the 'our hand were tied' ' we didn't know' tack is transparent.
How many unaccompanied minors are there, how do you know we are taking over half of them?

[Kizzy]

Well you could say the same for your argument, where is your proof that the UK aren't doing their bit ?

My point was on the ages of the kids, it was that post you are responding to.

[kirklancaster]

My point was on the ages of the kids, it was that post you are responding to.

:joker: YOUR POINT WAS 'ON THE AGES OF THE KIDS'????

That is THE one point which is NOT in any doubt, if you are referring to those 20 and 30 somethings being paraded as CHILDREN by the idiotic and downright dangerous to this country 'bleeding heart' do-gooders, because the evidence is both preponderous and wholly convincing m'lud.

[kirklancaster]

I've been through all my atlas's and Geography text books and Googled, but I cannot find any border shared by France and England. Unless they've recategorised the English Channel as a border. I'd hate to be a squaddie on 'Border Patrol' though. All that treading water must get mighty tiring on the legs. :hee:

[Cherie]

Many charities involved (UK and French) have been well aware of the numbers and locations of the unaccompanied child refugees for a very long time Cherie.
I'm sorry but the 'our hand were tied' ' we didn't know' tack is transparent.
How many unaccompanied minors are there, how do you know we are taking over half of them?

Because there is a census of sorts maybe we are taking more than half and the French have made up the numbers

[Kizzy]

Because there is a census of sorts maybe we are taking more than half and the French have made up the numbers

Where is this census?

[Kizzy]

:joker: YOUR POINT WAS 'ON THE AGES OF THE KIDS'????

That is THE one point which is NOT in any doubt, if you are referring to those 20 and 30 somethings being paraded as CHILDREN by the idiotic and downright dangerous to this country 'bleeding heart' do-gooders, because the evidence is both preponderous and wholly convincing m'lud.

Bleeding heart do gooders?... They were being paraded by our media having been brought over by our govt :conf:

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/16/10/206x116/e372fed306fdfc1fab389c323290ca2affca10247ef5dd1f96 d92fc98e1a1d9a_3816772.jpg?20161025153649
Starting to pull it apart
and bin it all.


http://news.sky.com/story/demolition-of-calais-jungle-migrant-camp-under-way-in-france-10631988

[Cherie]

Where is this census?



Embed Feed Watch time-lapse footage of life jacket graveyard being created in Parliament Square IBTimes UK
More than 10,000 people now live in the so-called Calais Jungle migrant camp near the port of Calais access point to the Channel Tunnel, a new census has revealed.

Migrants, some fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East, Africa and Asia have amassed, in their thousands, on the French coast with the hope of making their way into the UK. But as the migrant crisis in the port continues, French authorities have been carrying out their strongest crackdown on migrants for five years, evicting, arresting, detaining or deporting migrants from France.

More from IBTimes UK
14-year-old Afghan refugee killed while attempting to board lorry to illegally enter UK from Calais
Four suspected smugglers arrested in Calais for selling dinghies to desperate migrants
Calais: Sudanese man becomes 11th victim of clashes between refugees from overcrowded camp
Which nationalities make up the most Jungle's population?

- Sudanese refugees: 43%

- Afghans: 33%

- Syrians and Iraqis (including Kurds): 1% each of the overall camp population

The population of the camp has risen above 10,000 for the first time, with the population now totalling 10,188 – according to a new census from L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees. This represents a 12% increase in the overall population since August.

The shocking new figures also reveal that the number of unaccompanied minors has increased by 51% month-on-month – bringing to 1,179 the number of underage youths in the camp, of which 87% are unaccompanied.

Of those surveyed for the census, 52% reported issues in receiving accommodation, including waits of up to 8 months to be offered even temporary shelter by local authorities, L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees said.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/25/15/39B37B0500000578-3868818-image-a-106_1477404188217.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/25/15/39B374C100000578-3868818-image-a-123_1477404701631.jpg

[Kizzy]

Its not on our side of the border though, so responsibility is not equal. We have no jurisdiction on French soil, and the illegal camp is on French soil, not UK soil.

I have to say, with winter approaching fast, if we are concerned about humanitarian issues, we should be looking at our homeless in the UK. They have far less protection, security and facilities available to them than the immigrants on French soil. We actually have no duty what so ever to look after anyone in the French camps.

Incorrect, under the dubs amendment we do.

[Kizzy]

:clap2: we have camps under the North Circular, who is helping them?

Have you asked them?

[Cherie]

Have you asked them?

No one, according to a report on the London news, these are people who are working in the capital as well but cant afford to rent

[Kizzy]

Embed Feed Watch time-lapse footage of life jacket graveyard being created in Parliament Square IBTimes UK
More than 10,000 people now live in the so-called Calais Jungle migrant camp near the port of Calais access point to the Channel Tunnel, a new census has revealed.

Migrants, some fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East, Africa and Asia have amassed, in their thousands, on the French coast with the hope of making their way into the UK. But as the migrant crisis in the port continues, French authorities have been carrying out their strongest crackdown on migrants for five years, evicting, arresting, detaining or deporting migrants from France.

More from IBTimes UK
14-year-old Afghan refugee killed while attempting to board lorry to illegally enter UK from Calais
Four suspected smugglers arrested in Calais for selling dinghies to desperate migrants
Calais: Sudanese man becomes 11th victim of clashes between refugees from overcrowded camp
Which nationalities make up the most Jungle's population?

- Sudanese refugees: 43%

- Afghans: 33%

- Syrians and Iraqis (including Kurds): 1% each of the overall camp population

The population of the camp has risen above 10,000 for the first time, with the population now totalling 10,188 – according to a new census from L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees. This represents a 12% increase in the overall population since August.

The shocking new figures also reveal that the number of unaccompanied minors has increased by 51% month-on-month – bringing to 1,179 the number of underage youths in the camp, of which 87% are unaccompanied.

Of those surveyed for the census, 52% reported issues in receiving accommodation, including waits of up to 8 months to be offered even temporary shelter by local authorities, L' Auberge des Migrants/ Help Refugees said.

That's approx 1026 unaccompanied minors, all the reports I have seen suggest we have taken approx 300, how is that half?

'Approximately two thousand camp residents, including an estimated 300 minors, passed through the registration centre on the fringe of the camp yesterday, according to a spokesman for the French Interior.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/calais-jungle-closed-unaccompanied-children-evacuation-a7378271.html

[Kizzy]

No one, according to a report on the London news, these are people who are working in the capital as well but cant afford to rent

Look, my heart bleeds....A LOT.

But if you are asking me to weep over someone bleating about the cost of a studio flat in SW1... Sorry I'm all cried out.

[bots]

Incorrect, under the dubs amendment we do.

If someone in Australia buys a ticket to come to the UK, appears at Sydney airport for the flight, but doesn't have a visa, he will be told he can't travel, and cheerio.

We are not duty bound to take care of anyone not legally eligible to come to our country. End of.

[iloveaisleyne]

Sorry I probably sound really ignorant but
If they are in a safe country (France) why are they so intent on coming over here? Surely if you were on the risk of being killed in your country you'd be happy to be anywhere as long as it is safe?

[kirklancaster]

Sorry I probably sound really ignorant but
If they are in a safe country (France) why are they so intent on coming over here? Surely if you were on the risk of being killed in your country you'd be happy to be anywhere as long as it is safe?

Hi,

You are WAY too logical for this place. :wavey:

[kirklancaster]

Incorrect, under the dubs amendment we do.

To be precise, The Dubs Amendment applies ONLY to unaccompanied CHILDREN - NOT adults, NOT to children with parents, and especially NOT to SKANKING ADULTS PRETENDING TO BE CHILDREN.

There is now also NO preset number of just how many unaccompanied children we have to take under the Dubs Amendment - that being subject now to the discretion of individual councils within the UK.

So, with respect, it is YOU not BOTS who is 'incorrect'.

[Cherie]

Look, my heart bleeds....A LOT.

But if you are asking me to weep over someone bleating about the cost of a studio flat in SW1... Sorry I'm all cried out.

Wow so it's okay for people who pay taxes to live in tents in London because property prices are high ...even though high prices are not their fault :umm2:

[kirklancaster]

Wow so it's okay for people who pay taxes to live in tents in London because property prices are high ...even though high prices are not their fault :umm2:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: It seems that Humanitarianism and caring and compassion does not extend to the indigenous British.

[Kizzy]

If someone in Australia buys a ticket to come to the UK, appears at Sydney airport for the flight, but doesn't have a visa, he will be told he can't travel, and cheerio.

We are not duty bound to take care of anyone not legally eligible to come to our country. End of.


We are legally obliged.

'Lord Dubs, the Labour peer who earlier this year masterminded a political coup forcing the government to promise to give sanctuary to some unaccompanied child refugees, usually comes across as an upbeat figure, not inclined to wallow in despair. Today he seems momentarily overwhelmed by the horrific situation facing about 860 children living here in second-hand camping tents and flimsy wooden shacks. Given the amount of energy he has dedicated to trying to help them, and the complete absence of any progress to date, he has every reason to feel depressed.

“It is a disgrace. A piece of legislation was passed with enormous public support, and the government has done nothing discernible about it,” he says. As a former child refugee himself, brought to Britain from Czechoslovakia on one of the Kindertransport trains in 1939, his sense of anger at the political inaction is particularly acute.'

[Kizzy]

To be precise, The Dubs Amendment applies ONLY to unaccompanied CHILDREN - NOT adults, NOT to children with parents, and especially NOT to SKANKING ADULTS PRETENDING TO BE CHILDREN.

There is now also NO preset number of just how many unaccompanied children we have to take under the Dubs Amendment - that being subject now to the discretion of individual councils within the UK.

So, with respect, it is YOU not BOTS who is 'incorrect'.

I have been addressing the issue in relation to children for the past 4 pages...

[Kizzy]

Wow so it's okay for people who pay taxes to live in tents in London because property prices are high ...even though high prices are not their fault :umm2:

Did I say it was ok? :umm2:

[Vicky.]

This crisis has reached crisis scenario because an awful lot of non refugees have paid people smugglers to bring them into Europe to try and get them into the UK.Its clear that the residents of The Jungle only travelled all the way through Europe to Calais to come to the UK.That's why it's there.The real regugees are stuck in refugee camps waiting for help while these economic migrants are slowing that whole process down.Also these adults posing as children are despicable when they know that there are actual children in there who are vulnerable.The real children need getting out of there and then our government needs to get on with helping the actual refugees in the real refugee camps.

You know, I used to consider myself about as left as they come until recently. My opinions have changed on so many things I am doubting that now..this being one of them. I completely agree with the bolded part. It is shocking that those who have traveled through many safe countries to get here appear to be prioritized over those genuinely scared for their/their families lives.

I cannot agree that those posing as children are 'despicable' as honestly, humans do whatever they can to get the best for themselves. Its kind of in our nature.

However it is shocking that this has been allowed to happen when kids as young as 8 are alone there. But again, the question kind of comes, how the **** did 8 year olds manage to find their way to Calais alone?! However they got there I do think we should take them in, but those coming just for jobs/benefits/whatever need to go back and we can take in genuine refugees in their place. Our intake of refugees has been dire and must be improved..these are ****ing people and we cannot ignore them. However I cannot find it in me to get too annoyed about economic migrants having their makeshift illegal home taken from them. Refugees, of course we should help them. people posing as if they need help when they don't...no. I don't doubt these people think they could have a better life in the UK...but while thousands upon thousands actually need to be here to literally survive..people wanting in just for more money or whatever can get to the back of the line.

[bots]

We are legally obliged.

'Lord Dubs, the Labour peer who earlier this year masterminded a political coup forcing the government to promise to give sanctuary to some unaccompanied child refugees, usually comes across as an upbeat figure, not inclined to wallow in despair. Today he seems momentarily overwhelmed by the horrific situation facing about 860 children living here in second-hand camping tents and flimsy wooden shacks. Given the amount of energy he has dedicated to trying to help them, and the complete absence of any progress to date, he has every reason to feel depressed.

“It is a disgrace. A piece of legislation was passed with enormous public support, and the government has done nothing discernible about it,” he says. As a former child refugee himself, brought to Britain from Czechoslovakia on one of the Kindertransport trains in 1939, his sense of anger at the political inaction is particularly acute.'

the key words there are child and refugee .... or have the last n pages not made that clear

[Kizzy]

the key words there are child and refugee .... or have the last n pages not made that clear

Well yes.... Seeing as that is what I have been discussing, as I said earlier for several pages.

[Northern Monkey]

Sorry I probably sound really ignorant but
If they are in a safe country (France) why are they so intent on coming over here? Surely if you were on the risk of being killed in your country you'd be happy to be anywhere as long as it is safe?

Not ignorant.This is the point that me and a few others also make quite regularly.
It's like banging your head off a brick wall:laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

You know, I used to consider myself about as left as they come until recently. My opinions have changed on so many things I am doubting that now..this being one of them. I completely agree with the bolded part. It is shocking that those who have traveled through many safe countries to get here appear to be prioritized over those genuinely scared for their/their families lives.

I cannot agree that those posing as children are 'despicable' as honestly, humans do whatever they can to get the best for themselves. Its kind of in our nature.

However it is shocking that this has been allowed to happen when kids as young as 8 are alone there. But again, the question kind of comes, how the **** did 8 year olds manage to find their way to Calais alone?! However they got there I do think we should take them in, but those coming just for jobs/benefits/whatever need to go back and we can take in genuine refugees in their place. Our intake of refugees has been dire and must be improved..these are ****ing people and we cannot ignore them. However I cannot find it in me to get too annoyed about economic migrants having their makeshift illegal home taken from them. Refugees, of course we should help them. people posing as if they need help when they don't...no. I don't doubt these people think they could have a better life in the UK...but while thousands upon thousands actually need to be here to literally survive..people wanting in just for more money or whatever can get to the back of the line.Totally agree.We should be sending the message out to genuine refugees that the quickest route to the UK is in the refugee camps and that they WILL NOT get in jumping on the back of lorries or pretending to be children.

[Kizzy]

Totally agree.We should be sending the message out to genuine refugees that the quickest route to the UK is in the refugee camps and that they WILL NOT get in jumping on the back of lorries or pretending to be children.

So you want them to swim back to Syria and wait with the 5 million others?

[Northern Monkey]

So you want them to swim back to Syria and wait with the 5 million others?

I'd bet not a large percentage of those in that Jungle camp are from Syria

[Kizzy]

I'd bet not a large percentage of those in that Jungle camp are from Syria

This is from this time last year... so the amount of people you could probably triple.

Why is the UK seen as a target?

The situation in Calais is part of a wider migration crisis in Europe - caused largely by the displacement of people from war-torn countries such as Syria, Afghanistan, and Eritrea, and also North Africa.
Many want to claim asylum in the UK. Others want to enter the country incognito to remain as illegal workers.
Natacha Bouchart, Mayor of Calais, has said illegal migrants perceive Britain as a "soft touch" for benefits, and a better place to find jobs in the black economy than France - although studies do not necessarily back up this view.
The British Red Cross said most migrants wanted to make the move because they believed there was a better prospect of finding work in the UK, or because they speak English and want to use the language. Others have relatives in the UK, or are drawn by a belief that there is better housing and education available.
The UK is certainly not alone as a target destination. According to the EU's statistics body Eurostat, Germany saw the most non-EU asylum seekers in 2014 - almost 203,000 - followed by Sweden, Italy, France, Hungary, and then the UK.
But the huge influx of migrants into Europe has seen asylum applications soar. Germany - the most popular destination - says it is expecting 800,000 refugees to arrive this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29074736

[Vicky.]

So you want them to swim back to Syria and wait with the 5 million others?

Why should they be prioritized over the others who stayed put? Someone fit enough to swim across an ocean, if thats what happened, should not be priority over, for example, a four year old child.

Sorry maybe its true that I am getting desensitized, and maybe its wrong to disregard some for the sake of others...but we cannot take in everyone and I would rather take in those most in need. I find it hard to believe that a large amount of those camped out at the border are Syrian basically because if they were, they would be happy anywhere than is safe, rather than trying to get to one specific country :shrug:

[Vicky.]

With the stats you posted though, Germany really has put us to shame over all of this. 800k...and we take in a thousand or so :S

[Northern Monkey]

With the stats you posted though, Germany really has put us to shame over all of this. 800k...and we take in a thousand or so :S

That's because Germany has a big problem with declining population so Merkel very irresponsibly opened the gates and said everyone all pile in with absolutely no regard for the surrounding countries who don't have Germany's population issues.She flooded Europe andprovoked a response from the countries around who had to put up massive fences and caused chaos.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So you want them to swim back to Syria and wait with the 5 million others?

In all the coverage of this farce I have not seen any Syrian migrants just Asian ones

[Cherie]

French Officials say the camp has been cleared, aid agencies beg to differ and say there are still children in the camp and waiting to be registered

[Kizzy]

Why should they be prioritized over the others who stayed put? Someone fit enough to swim across an ocean, if thats what happened, should not be priority over, for example, a four year old child.

Sorry maybe its true that I am getting desensitized, and maybe its wrong to disregard some for the sake of others...but we cannot take in everyone and I would rather take in those most in need. I find it hard to believe that a large amount of those camped out at the border are Syrian basically because if they were, they would be happy anywhere than is safe, rather than trying to get to one specific country :shrug:

No that's not what happened, that would be impossible.

They are here, maybe they shouldn't have any priority they wouldn't have it now if the French hadn't forced the arm of our govt to act, not many appear to be coming from the 5 million currently seeking asylum from Syria though do they?
The question of why they want to be here has been answered countless times, family connections, good wages, healthcare, and the fact they speak our language.

[Kizzy]

In all the coverage of this farce I have not seen any Syrian migrants just Asian ones

ok

[Kizzy]

French Officials say the camp has been cleared, aid agencies beg to differ and say there are still children in the camp and waiting to be registered

Really I am surprised, and what do our officials say about 8000 people just being spirited away? Not much I bet.

[arista]

Its Good so many went in Buses
to other parts of France
ending with a proper bed,
Kizzy

[Kizzy]

Its Good so many went in Buses
to other parts of France
ending with a proper bed,
Kizzy

I really hope so Arista :(
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/09/19/108993609-Lifejackets-News-large_trans++-IWLY18X4-CzgyIcjLEAj2gHASe0qT_uoC13QW9bQig.jpg

[Kizzy]

Well done GREAT Torrington!

Great Torrington (Devon, UK)

The north Devon town of Torrington is called ‘Great’ because of its role in the English Civil War. And it is showing a very different type of reaction to refugee resettlement from the one seen in Eltham.

Great Torrington will now be the temporary home of 70 unaccompanied refugee children from the ‘Calais Jungle‘. They will stay at the country retreat of Beam House. The local authority agreed that this was the most suitable location to house the refugees, with all costs paid by the Home Office. The 70 new arrivals will be among the first contingent to arrive in the UK as a result of the ‘Alf Dubs Amendment‘. The Immigration Act amendment, proposed by Lord Dubs (who as a child was brought to Britain via the Kindertransport scheme) will mean that Britain will accept unaccompanied child refugees even if they have no ties to the UK.

The Daily Telegraph is already stirring up trouble, emphasising only negative comments from a handful of locals. But most locals are not only uncritical. They are actually welcoming the refugees. Indeed, most are proud that their town is one of the first in Britain to offer such accommodation.

The Plough Arts Centre – which is the cultural hub of the town – has offered free film showings to these displaced youngsters. And Great Torrington Mayor Margaret Brown has given her full support to the refugee initiative, saying:

Since the crisis started to evolve, locals have been contacting us asking for a way to help, so we are ready.
Local MP Geoffrey Cox added:

I strongly believe that this country must respond compassionately to the plight of children caught up in the dangerous situation that has been allowed to develop in Calais.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/10/26/far-right-peddles-hate-one-devon-town-reminds-us-compassion-looks-like-opinion/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well done GREAT Torrington!

Great Torrington (Devon, UK)

The north Devon town of Torrington is called ‘Great’ because of its role in the English Civil War. And it is showing a very different type of reaction to refugee resettlement from the one seen in Eltham.

Great Torrington will now be the temporary home of 70 unaccompanied refugee children from the ‘Calais Jungle‘. They will stay at the country retreat of Beam House. The local authority agreed that this was the most suitable location to house the refugees, with all costs paid by the Home Office. The 70 new arrivals will be among the first contingent to arrive in the UK as a result of the ‘Alf Dubs Amendment‘. The Immigration Act amendment, proposed by Lord Dubs (who as a child was brought to Britain via the Kindertransport scheme) will mean that Britain will accept unaccompanied child refugees even if they have no ties to the UK.

The Daily Telegraph is already stirring up trouble, emphasising only negative comments from a handful of locals. But most locals are not only uncritical. They are actually welcoming the refugees. Indeed, most are proud that their town is one of the first in Britain to offer such accommodation.

The Plough Arts Centre – which is the cultural hub of the town – has offered free film showings to these displaced youngsters. And Great Torrington Mayor Margaret Brown has given her full support to the refugee initiative, saying:

Since the crisis started to evolve, locals have been contacting us asking for a way to help, so we are ready.
Local MP Geoffrey Cox added:

I strongly believe that this country must respond compassionately to the plight of children caught up in the dangerous situation that has been allowed to develop in Calais.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/10/26/far-right-peddles-hate-one-devon-town-reminds-us-compassion-looks-like-opinion/


THis is the actual title of that "article"

While the far-right peddles hate, one Devon town reminds us what compassion looks like

:rolleyes:


Some tin pot blog operation with a total agenda

"The team at The Canary believe a free, fair and fearless media is the bedrock of a functioning democracy"


from that "article"


the far-right peddles hate

the right-wing press and its ideological bedfellows have been at the forefront of a campaign against accepting refugees.

Like in Britain, the right-wing press in Australia has drummed up hatred of refugees

The Daily Telegraph is already stirring up trouble, emphasising only negative comments from a handful of locals.

The UN has slammed some British newspapers for “sustained and unrestrained anti-foreigner abuse” in recent years. And people have even been attacked for not speaking English.

Right-wing groups at home and abroad have sought to push hatred over compassion. But we are seeing more and more clear examples of exactly how such hatred can be defeated.


:joker:

[Kizzy]

THis is the actual title of that "article"

While the far-right peddles hate, one Devon town reminds us what compassion looks like

:rolleyes:


Some tin pot blog operation with a total agenda

"The team at The Canary believe a free, fair and fearless media is the bedrock of a functioning democracy"


from that "article"


the far-right peddles hate

the right-wing press and its ideological bedfellows have been at the forefront of a campaign against accepting refugees.

Like in Britain, the right-wing press in Australia has drummed up hatred of refugees

The Daily Telegraph is already stirring up trouble, emphasising only negative comments from a handful of locals.

The UN has slammed some British newspapers for “sustained and unrestrained anti-foreigner abuse” in recent years. And people have even been attacked for not speaking English.

Right-wing groups at home and abroad have sought to push hatred over compassion. But we are seeing more and more clear examples of exactly how such hatred can be defeated.


:joker:

Yes, and what is wrong with that title, or any of the statements from this online news source?
Do you have a comment in relation to the content?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, and what is wrong with that title, or any of the statements from this online news source?
Do you have a comment in relation to the content?

yeah, this :joker:


Great news for Corbynistas... it’s the maddest Left-wing website in the world

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12175084/Great-news-for-Corbynistas...-its-the-maddest-Left-wing-website-in-the-world.html

[kirklancaster]

THis is the actual title of that "article"

While the far-right peddles hate, one Devon town reminds us what compassion looks like

:rolleyes:


Some tin pot blog operation with a total agenda

"The team at The Canary believe a free, fair and fearless media is the bedrock of a functioning democracy"


from that "article"


the far-right peddles hate

the right-wing press and its ideological bedfellows have been at the forefront of a campaign against accepting refugees.

Like in Britain, the right-wing press in Australia has drummed up hatred of refugees

The Daily Telegraph is already stirring up trouble, emphasising only negative comments from a handful of locals.

The UN has slammed some British newspapers for “sustained and unrestrained anti-foreigner abuse” in recent years. And people have even been attacked for not speaking English.

Right-wing groups at home and abroad have sought to push hatred over compassion. But we are seeing more and more clear examples of exactly how such hatred can be defeated.


:joker:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:laugh:: Is this an example of 'Selective Editing' or 'Tactical Editing'? Peeing meself.

[Kizzy]

It's in the top 100 media publications ...above 'the Spectator' I might add and I see that quoted regularly here :idc:
It's mocked by the Telegraph eh? No surprise there then.

Anyhoo back on topic.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvteMvaXgAAx3yU.jpg
with all the Fires
The site is clear

[Denver]

bitches best not be coming for my jobs

[Vicky.]

No that's not what happened, that would be impossible.

They are here, maybe they shouldn't have any priority they wouldn't have it now if the French hadn't forced the arm of our govt to act, not many appear to be coming from the 5 million currently seeking asylum from Syria though do they?
The question of why they want to be here has been answered countless times, family connections, good wages, healthcare, and the fact they speak our language.

I totally understand this. However it just seems wrong to be letting in people like this when there are people genuinely scared for their lives and in actual danger.

[Kizzy]

I totally understand this. However it just seems wrong to be letting in people like this when there are people genuinely scared for their lives and in actual danger.

I don't disagree with you there, that's not to say I agree with sending people back to a warzone, it's a catch 22 situation :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

and the minute one camp of economic migrants is destroyed another pops up...:umm2:

France doing nothing it seems and happy for them to try (illegally) to come here) NO Syrians all are East African migrants and looks like all men and all in one age demographic. Ignore the inflammatory vid clip caption as this is an actual sky news clip.

h0jWjhUf_GI

[kirklancaster]

and the minute one camp of economic migrants is destroyed another pops up...:umm2:

France doing nothing it seems and happy for them to try (illegally) to come here) NO Syrians all are East African migrants and looks like all men and all in one age demographic. Ignore the inflammatory vid clip caption as this is an actual sky news clip.

h0jWjhUf_GI

Anyone with half a brain cell could have predicted this being so.

Just as, if we HAD have taken ALL those Calais Camp 5,000, 6,000 or 10,000 (however many) NON refugees, that would have sent the message back to the other 34 million (or whatever) would-be Economic Migrants worldwide, that: "Hey - It works boy." and Calais would soon be one humongous camp.

They ALL are already clued up that:

a) Once in the UK illegally, it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove them.
b) If they are apprehended in the UK by Border Force, they CANNOT do ANYTHING to them if the illegals have no documents and passports.
c) For the VAST majority of apprehended illegals, they ARE released into HOTELS and GUEST HOUSES paid for by the UK TAXPAYER, pending 'ENQUIRIES' - from which 99% of them disappear without trace.

The government keeps NO RECORDS of just how many ILLEGALS are actual in the UK, and there could be as many as 10 MILLION for all we know.

NO, I AM NOT REFERRING TO GENUINE REFUGEES OR GENUINE CHILDREN HERE, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY DECIPHERING WHAT I AM WRITING.

[Cherie]

The charities say they had to house 100s of children who were left in the camp, French officials say they were people who came after the camp was cleared So they would be rehoused and could claim asylum...who to believe

[Kizzy]

Anyone with half a brain cell could have predicted this being so.

Just as, if we HAD have taken ALL those Calais Camp 5,000, 6,000 or 10,000 (however many) NON refugees, that would have sent the message back to the other 34 million (or whatever) would-be Economic Migrants worldwide, that: "Hey - It works boy." and Calais would soon be one humongous camp.

They ALL are already clued up that:

a) Once in the UK illegally, it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove them.
b) If they are apprehended in the UK by Border Force, they CANNOT do ANYTHING to them if the illegals have no documents and passports.
c) For the VAST majority of apprehended illegals, they ARE released into HOTELS and GUEST HOUSES paid for by the UK TAXPAYER, pending 'ENQUIRIES' - from which 99% of them disappear without trace.

The government keeps NO RECORDS of just how many ILLEGALS are actual in the UK, and there could be as many as 10 MILLION for all we know.

NO, I AM NOT REFERRING TO GENUINE REFUGEES OR GENUINE CHILDREN HERE, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY DECIPHERING WHAT I AM WRITING.

Got any proof for these claims?

[Kizzy]

The charities say they had to house 100s of children who were left in the camp, French officials say they were people who came after the camp was cleared So they would be rehoused and could claim asylum...who to believe

Rubbish, those aiding the kids were witnessing them being sent back to the then burning camp as processing had finished.
Horrific, humanitarian omnishambles!

[Cherie]

Rubbish, those aiding the kids were witnessing them being sent back to the then burning camp as processing had finished.
Horrific, humanitarian omnishambles!

Do you have a link?

[smudgie]

If any of the immigrants/refugees refuse to get on the transport because they want to stay in Callais then simply arrest them, offer them asylum if they qualify for it and if not then deport them, how hard can that be.:shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Got any proof for these claims?
watching ALL the Border Force and other documentaries screened on Terrestrial and Sky channels for years, reading ALL the relevant articles in diverse publications, and reading dozens of internet articles from diverse sources.

None of the above are of any use at all however, without an open mind and a willingness to accept truth and reality.

[Northern Monkey]

If any of the immigrants/refugees refuse to get on the transport because they want to stay in Callais then simply arrest them, offer them asylum if they qualify for it and if not then deport them, how hard can that be.:shrug:

If only the French authorities had your common sense:thumbs:

[Kizzy]

Do you have a link?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/26/operation-to-clear-calais-refugee-camp-finishes-ahead-of-schedule

[Kizzy]

watching ALL the Border Force and other documentaries screened on Terrestrial and Sky channels for years, reading ALL the relevant articles in diverse publications, and reading dozens of internet articles from diverse sources.

None of the above are of any use at all however, without an open mind and a willingness to accept truth and reality.

:joker::joker::joker: Oh come on now, I said have you any proof and you give me media propaganda?
I'm done.

[kirklancaster]

:joker::joker::joker: Oh come on now, I said have you any proof and you give me media propaganda?
I'm done.

I'm afraid that the :joker::joker::joker: are on YOU, because this is particularly 'rich' coming from a member whose greatest trait is copy pasta and posting links to media articles. YOUR GUARDIAN LINK just 2 posts above being a classic example :joker::joker::joker::joker:

Perhaps, you would identify just where you derive your information from - other than the sources which I have just detailed in my own post - because it is quite obvious that it is NOT from your own direct personal experience.

Would you PLEASE enlighten us all?

[Kizzy]

I'm afraid that the :joker::joker::joker: are on YOU, because this is particularly 'rich' coming from a member whose greatest trait is copy pasta and posting links to media articles. YOUR GUARDIAN LINK just 2 posts above being a classic example :joker::joker::joker::joker:

Perhaps, you would identify just where you derive your information from - other than the sources which I have just detailed in my own post - because it is quite obvious that it is NOT from your own direct personal experience.

Would you PLEASE enlighten us all?

That Guardian link is at least news such as it is, not a light entertainment show on morning television :/

[Kizzy]

'As the Calais refugee camp burns, there are few who wish to kill those who flee war, persecution or dictatorship. But it is pointless to pretend there is much support for the cause of refugees. As a group their humanity has been systematically stripped away. They are not like you, or your family, or your neighbours. Rather they are seen as a collective blob composed of faceless deceitful criminals, potential rapists and murderers who will steal homes, jobs and resources. If we believed they were like us or our children, we would not tolerate their mass drownings in the Mediterranean.'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/28/black-mirror-empathy-shared-humanity

[Tom4784]

Dead immigrant children washing up on a shore are only good for a few weeks of sympathy, then everyone goes back to thinking immigrants are subhuman because it's easier than facing the reality of the situation.

[kirklancaster]

That Guardian link is at least news such as it is, not a light entertainment show on morning television :/



You quite obviously do not ever watch quality documentaries on any of the terrestrial or on the very many Sky Channels, if you are under the delusion that ANY of them are light entertainment shows OR that they are screened as part of 'Morning Television' - which would partly explain why your views on a whole plethora of Serious subjects give the impression of great naivety, denial, and having been formed by someone who lives life within very, very, narrow parameters.

And in light of the fact that you decried ALL the sources of MY information, could you PLEASE - for once - answer the question I posed to you?

I have repeated it below for your convenience:

Perhaps, you would identify just where you derive your information from - other than the sources which I have just detailed in my own post - because it is quite obvious that it is NOT from your own direct personal experience.

Would you PLEASE enlighten us all?

[Kizzy]

[/B]

You quite obviously do not ever watch quality documentaries on any of the terrestrial or on the very many Sky Channels, if you are under the delusion that ANY of them are light entertainment shows OR that they are screened as part of 'Morning Television' - which would partly explain why your views on a whole plethora of Serious subjects give the impression of great naivety, denial, and having been formed by someone who lives life within very, very, narrow parameters.

And in light of the fact that you decried ALL the sources of MY information, could you PLEASE - for once - answer the question I posed to you?

I have repeated it below for your convenience:

Perhaps, you would identify just where you derive your information from - other than the sources which I have just detailed in my own post - because it is quite obvious that it is NOT from your own direct personal experience.

Would you PLEASE enlighten us all?

I haven't professed to holding 'facts' on this topic have I?

And I'm sorry but I still don't view 'Border force' as an accurate depiction or anything we could glean any credible, factual or statistical evidence from.

[Kizzy]

r9s8LqmFo_4

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/28/14/article-3882566-39CF987E00000578-444_636x647.jpg

[Kizzy]

#wherearethekids

[arista]

#wherearethekids


In the Containers safe
or on the way to them

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/28/14/39CEEAF800000578-0-image-a-104_1477660495740.jpg
top of the photo

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3882566/Ripped-pieces-Dramatic-aerial-images-reveal-Calais-Jungle-torn-just-weeks-squalid-camp-packed-thousands-tents-huts.html

[Denver]

did anyone see the story how a group of these inhabitants raped a woman as they destroyed the camp?

[arista]

did anyone see the story how a group of these inhabitants raped a woman as they destroyed the camp?

Evil