Poor People should have no more than 2 kids

[arista]

A Older Women
Phoned into CH5HD Live AM
saying this
as kids are expensive.

Fair point.

[Marsh.]

"Poor people" is a generic term for a wide variance of people though.

[Vicky.]

Depends doesn't it. I doubt many people had kids thinking they would lose their jobs/become disabled/get divorced/whatever. Some have kids while already unemployed or whatever. Fair enough. The vast majority of people don't though. And given contraception is not 100% effective...sometimes it is a choice between total celibacy, struggling to feed an extra mouth, or having an abortion.

[Shaun]

She sounds lovely.

Bought right into that "the poor and the benefits scroungers are what's wrong with society" angle peddled by rich tax-dodging media tycoons.

[Calderyon]

Fairly good way to prevent a child birth is to have a vasectomy before "doing the deed". But i hear even that isn´t fool proof. And there´s also the cost factor.

[Vicky.]

Fairly good way to prevent a child birth is to have a vasectomy before "doing the deed". But i hear even that isn´t fool proof. And there´s also the cost factor.

Also sometimes not reversible. I don't think its ethical to expect someone who becomes 'poor' to go through medical procedure s that could leave them totally sterile in the future if they change their mind, only because they have less money than others :laugh:

My brother was conceived after my dad had a vasectomy...

[user104658]

My brother was conceived after my dad had a vasectomy...

Vicky's mum: ":omgno: :omgno: :omgno: ... it's... er... it's a miracle... :umm2:..."

:hehe:


In all seriousness though, there is no 100% method. I have one pill-baby and one planned. We also had a pregnancy occur when my wife had a coil implant... ... ... so that worked well. It ended in a miscarriage though, as you need to have the coil removed (or risk pregnancy complications / birth defects) and doing so has something like a 60 - 70% chance of causing miscarriage.

[Calderyon]

Also sometimes not reversible. I don't think its ethical to expect someone who becomes 'poor' to go through medical procedure s that could leave them totally sterile in the future if they change their mind, only because they have less money than others :laugh:

My brother was conceived after my dad had a vasectomy...

True. But if they decided to go through with it, they could store some semen in a s-bank just in case things go wrong. This of course won´t work if they were very religious.

[Vicky.]

Vicky's mum: ":omgno: :omgno: :omgno: ... it's... er... it's a miracle... :umm2:..."

:hehe:


In all seriousness though, there is no 100% method. I have one pill-baby and one planned. We also had a pregnancy occur when my wife had a coil implant... ... ... so that worked well. It ended in a miscarriage though, as you need to have the coil removed (or risk pregnancy complications / birth defects) and doing so has something like a 60 - 70% chance of causing miscarriage.
I have the implant AND my husband uses condoms but I am still terrified of getting pregnant. Funnily enough he doesn't entertain the thought of celibacy for the rest of our lives :bored:

[user104658]

my husband uses condoms

:worry: the poor soul.

[Vicky.]

I know I know. Cruel wifey.

If the doctors didn't treat me like a child this wouldn't even be an issue as I want to be sterilized. I KNOW I am done with kids now but they refuse to listen to me and keep saying I could change my mind. Looks like the only way I can get treatment is to tell them I am actually as man...they sterilize kids because of this, but not an adult woman who knows what she wants. Not sure I (or my husband) could deal with the beard and tashe that comes with that way of doing it though :bored:

[Crimson Dynamo]

In an ideal world an intelligence test would determine child numbers

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ideally the 3rd world would be drastically limited

[Mokka]

Vicky's mum: ":omgno: :omgno: :omgno: ... it's... er... it's a miracle... :umm2:..."

:hehe:


In all seriousness though, there is no 100% method. I have one pill-baby and one planned. We also had a pregnancy occur when my wife had a coil implant... ... ... so that worked well. It ended in a miscarriage though, as you need to have the coil removed (or risk pregnancy complications / birth defects) and doing so has something like a 60 - 70% chance of causing miscarriage.

You could do what arista does ... just have sex with robots :hee:

[Marsh.]

You could do what arista does ... just have sex with robots :hee:

Or men. :smug:

[Mokka]

Or men. :smug:

Well that method didn't work for me :hehe:

[Mystic Mock]

The question that should be asked is why just poor people?

[Denver]

Chavs shouldnt have kids so they can bum of the dole and watch Jezza all day

[Scarlett.]

In an ideal world an intelligence test would determine child numbers

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/hitler1.jpg

[Northern Monkey]

I think it's definitely sensible to only plan for as many as you can afford.We've only had two because i think we'd start to struggle with anymore.

[arista]

Depends doesn't it. I doubt many people had kids thinking they would lose their jobs/become disabled/get divorced/whatever. Some have kids while already unemployed or whatever. Fair enough. The vast majority of people don't though. And given contraception is not 100% effective...sometimes it is a choice between total celibacy, struggling to feed an extra mouth, or having an abortion.


Vicky
you know who I am talking about
Single Mums with Loads of kids
getting BENEFITS


I am Not Against benefits
but I am Angry at Single Mums
having loads of kids
Just to get MONEY
that stinks



Life In The Fast Lane

[arista]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/images/hitler1.jpg


Yes he had a Master Plan
but should not have taken on Great Britain
and Russia
at the same time.




Also Chewy the only Hitlers left
are too old like the Fool in Zimbabwe


Did you Study the 2nd World War, Chewy
its Exciting to study

[Kizzy]

Drip drip drip, ideas are fed into the public consciousness.

[Ammi]

...I know someone who has 3 children, her husband took a new job in a different area of the country...she was fully supportive of him and that he wanted to take this job even though it would mean leaving her local living family/friends etc and the children leaving their friends ..anyway, just hard for her/and the children to settle into a new area and not knowing anyone etc..her husband didn't feel it so much because he was at work long hours and loved his new job...only a few months after they moved..(Christmas Day it was actually...)...he told her that he was leaving her/had met someone at work and was going to be with her.../so there she was on her own/a single mum with 3 children and most likely be classed as 'poor'...well even if it was 'specific circumstances' and she was exempt and others like her were exempt as it were because it only applied to those becoming pregnant when they have no job or whatever..?..who would know that/how would that be judged and how elitist that would make it all... oh they must be 'rich' because they have 3 children...oh they must be 'poor' because they only have 2..it just creates an instant judgement of people....and what's the amount of earnings that makes 'poor' and what's the earnings that make 'not poor'...who decides and yeah, really poor people on many levels if they can't quite get to that earning line of being not poor/the pressure on them not to have that 'stigma' as some will see it...and what happens if that 'poor' family have a third child anyway...wow, I look not poor now and awww, that's lovely I won't be judged anymore it was worth having that third child and stretching the budget even further and being more 'poor' in doing it....but then oh bugger...the government just fined me for having that third child...is that what would happen..?...there would be a fine instilled on poor people to make them poorer because they went and got another baby by gum...the government as we know are great supporters of the fine and cashing in on those very vulnerable and on low incomes...oh they took their holiday in term time because they couldn't afford peak time, fine the buggers obviously...oh they're homeless and very untidy sitting around all day, fine the buggers obviously...I mean this is just so elitist a concept and a further demonisation for those who struggle enough anyway and are often judged anyway...to officially decide who would be classed as 'poor' for the purposes of having a family and how big a family allowed....

[Cherie]

We are not China :omgno:, that said the mindset that we can have as many kids as we like and the state will provide needs changing. I listened to a phone in on this subject last week, some of the statements made were astounding..mother of 8 saying it was her human right to have as many kids as she pleased, yes it is I guess if you can afford it :shrug: A worried grandparent who said his daughter has 4 kids because she thought the state would always provide, and so on. We need to get back to the idea of providing for ourselves and leaving the state to pick up those who got into difficulties through no fault of their own.

[Cherie]

:worry: the poor soul.

Isn't that part of the problem though, some men delegating birth control solely to women? :clap1: to Gav

[arista]

You could do what arista does ... just have sex with robots :hee:

YES
NO Condom needed
she will bend what ever way I fancy


Utter Bliss

[arista]

Chavs shouldnt have kids so they can bum of the dole and watch Jezza all day


Yes thats Why that old Lady
that Phoned in
Live on Ch5HD , yesterday
was able
shut matt wright UP


the Camera Zoomed round the
small crowd in the small Studio
above Tesco in W2, London
to get some faces of "Shock"
http://princesstv.com/studio/

[Crimson Dynamo]

If they stopped women having children and just said only men can give birth this would really cut the numbers down

sadly logical thought is in short supply in this debate

[arista]

If they stopped women having children and just said only men can give birth this would really cut the numbers down

sadly logical thought is in short supply in this debate



Vicky is OK
she knows the score

[Liam-]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?

[Cherie]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?

Indeed, yes accidents happen but in the main it's not accidental, it's either down to "taking a chance" or men not taking responsibility because it doesn't feel the same with a sock on it, and they must have the full experience :idc:

[Crimson Dynamo]

some thoughtful men take the responsibility and get the snip

:hmph:

[arista]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?


Liam
You Are Most Wise

[Northern Monkey]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?

Totally agree:thumbs:

[smudgie]

Children are the biggest responsibility you can have, so a lot of thought should go into it.
With that in mind we stopped at two (I would have loved a third), I don't think we were classed as poor at the time as hubby had a job, but with a mortgage and all the rest we had to be careful. As it happened, I could not have carried a third child although we did not know it at the time of our decision.
In this day and age when nobody has a job for life scenario you should be prepared for any circumstances, just the same as accidents can happen, or you remarry, everything isn't black and white.
The decision should be left up to the individuals involved, with the knowledge of how much help or lack of it you will get from the state, working or not.

[Cherie]

some thoughtful men take the responsibility and get the snip

:hmph:

No more mini LTs :bawling:

In all seriousness though and at the risk of sounding like the female version of the truth :fist: men do need to take responsibility, for birth control, and for looking after there offspring however they are conceived, single mothers blah blah, there would be a lot fewer single mothers if men stepped up and literally put a sock on it :hee:

[Livia]

I agree with Liam. My parents wanted a large family but didn't have the funds, so it's just my brother and me. It seems previous generations planned for families rather than relying on the state to fund them.

[kirklancaster]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?

:clap1::clap1::clap1: THIS ^ is what I think. Dystopian nightmarish scenarios such as compulsory sterilisation by the State should not even be entertained hypothetically. It is rather - surely - a matter for any decent, caring, and mature parents to decide. They should NOT want to breed children that they cannot afford to provide for and give the best possible start in life.

[arista]

:clap1::clap1::clap1: THIS ^ is what I think. Dystopian nightmarish scenarios such as compulsory sterilisation by the State should not even be entertained hypothetically. It is rather - surely - a matter for any decent, caring, and mature parents to decide. They should NOT want to breed children that they cannot afford to provide for and give the best possible start in life.

No
you make it law that if you have more than 2 kids
the state will not fund them at all.



New Labour MP's
agree with that
of course they are due to be deselected
and replaced with Corbyn
MP's

[Marsh.]

The question that should be asked is why just poor people?

Take a wild guess?

[arista]

The question that should be asked is why just poor people?


Are you Having A Laugh?


Rich kids do not need a penny
from MY FECKING TAX

[thesheriff443]

in this country people don't need to take resposability for having kids when they know the tax payer will pay for them.

Why do you think most on benefits have more kids, because more kids means more money and they don't have to work as they have kids to look after, also they are entitled to have a home that's paid for by the tax payer

Now before I get jumped on there are genuine people out there.

[kirklancaster]

in this country people don't need to take resposability for having kids when they know the tax payer will pay for them.

Why do you think most on benefits have more kids, because more kids means more money and they don't have to work as they have kids to look after, also they are entitled to have a home that's paid for by the tax payer

Now before I get jumped on there are genuine people out there.

I'm not about to jump on you Sheriff because you are 1,000% correct. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

[arista]

in this country people don't need to take resposability for having kids when they know the tax payer will pay for them.

Why do you think most on benefits have more kids, because more kids means more money and they don't have to work as they have kids to look after, also they are entitled to have a home that's paid for by the tax payer

Now before I get jumped on there are genuine people out there.


Genuine People
is not what this debate about.

Work To Make a Dollar
Watch It Melt Hear In My hand

[Vicky.]

Vicky
you know who I am talking about
Single Mums with Loads of kids
getting BENEFITS


I am Not Against benefits
but I am Angry at Single Mums
having loads of kids
Just to get MONEY
that stinks



Life In The Fast Lane
From April next year, people can only claim for 2 kids anyway. So chill out :tongue:

[Vicky.]

I've always believed that if you have kids and then lose your job, you're obviously entitled to go onto benefits in order to support them because you wouldn't be able to yourself, however, if a person in that situation goes on to have more kids while on benefits, I don't think they should be entitled to more money for those kids, if you couldn't afford to keep the ones you already have, then why would you bring more into the world?

Yup, sounds about right.
However I see flaws in this also...as whilst scummy bastards who do see their kids as a meal ticket exist..some people genuinely try not to get pregnant and just have horrific luck. I am not really comfortable with telling someone who has been careful that they have to have an abortion or be 'punished'. Which is pretty much what the options would be :S

I am especially not comfortable with it whilst sterilization is refused to people who already have kids when they ask for it :fist:

However I cannot really think of any other solution than the one you suggested.

[user104658]

Isn't that part of the problem though, some men delegating birth control solely to women? :clap1: to Gav

That goes with the myth that it's only men who don't like condoms, though. My wife dislikes the feeling of them, too. I understand why they're important for people still having casual sex / one night stands / multiple partners, especially when it comes to STI's etc... but yeah. Each to their own obviously, but both of us find that they are a major negative in several ways... ... ... how can you have a cheeky morning spoon if you're having to fiddle around finding and putting on condoms :shrug:. Ruins the sensation, ruins the flow of things...

*ahem* I mean :umm2: It feels exactly the same kids it's so thin no different at all be responsible use condoms!

[kirklancaster]

That goes with the myth that it's only men who don't like condoms, though. My wife dislikes the feeling of them, too. I understand why they're important for people still having casual sex / one night stands / multiple partners, especially when it comes to STI's etc... but yeah. Each to their own obviously, but both of us find that they are a major negative in several ways... ... ... how can you have a cheeky morning spoon if you're having to fiddle around finding and putting on condoms :shrug:. Ruins the sensation, ruins the flow of things...

*ahem* I mean :umm2: It feels exactly the same kids it's so thin no different at all be responsible use condoms!

:joker::joker::joker: You are nutty as a fruit cake T.S. :laugh:

[Cherie]

Not sure you know what a spoon is :umm2:

[kirklancaster]

Not sure you know what a spoon is :umm2:

Me? I don't know what a spoon is Cherie? I know every piece of cutlery in my canteen. :hee:

[Cherie]

Yup, sounds about right.
However I see flaws in this also...as whilst scummy bastards who do see their kids as a meal ticket exist..some people genuinely try not to get pregnant and just have horrific luck. I am not really comfortable with telling someone who has been careful that they have to have an abortion or be 'punished'. Which is pretty much what the options would be :S



I am especially not comfortable with it whilst sterilization is refused to people who already have kids when they ask for it :fist:

However I cannot really think of any other solution than the one you suggested.


What's the reason they won't allow you to be sterilised Vicky?

[Cherie]

Me? I don't know what a spoon is Cherie? I know every piece of cutlery in my canteen. :hee:

No not you Kirk, I should have quoted but I thought it was obvious who it was aimed at

[Vicky.]

What's the reason they won't allow you to be sterilised Vicky?

I am still young and might change my mind :bored: Even though I know I won't. They won't accept that I know myself and my body and my last pregnancy/labour absolutely broke me..I am still suffering from whatever pain he brought on that day :S

[Cherie]

I am still young and might change my mind :bored: Even though I know I won't. They won't accept that I know myself and my body and my last pregnancy/labour absolutely broke me..I am still suffering from whatever pain he brought on that day :S

What age will you have do be before they agree, and do they refuse men vasectomies :suspect:

[Vicky.]

What age will you have do be before they agree, and do they refuse men vasectomies :suspect:

No bloody idea, I haven't been able to get that answer.

Also Gav has asked about a vasectomy (though I prefer it to be me, as I don't trust vasectomies after my mum fell pregnant after my dad had one :S ) and they tried to put him off with the 'too young' spiel. Despite him having a ridiculous amount of kids (he has 3 with an ex, and 2 with me) already.

I'm thinking I am going to have to go private, though I am unsure if they will do it or not...the impression I get is private they do anything you want BUT if its not like this I can't be wasting cash on appointments for another no

[user104658]

No not you Kirk, I should have quoted but I thought it was obvious who it was aimed at

It's when you cuddle from behind like spoons in a drawer, big spoon and little spoon, and then you do some nipple stuff, and then sneakily slip it in after spending like 10 minutes trying to get the angle right. :conf:

[user104658]

I am still young and might change my mind :bored: Even though I know I won't. They won't accept that I know myself and my body and my last pregnancy/labour absolutely broke me..I am still suffering from whatever pain he brought on that day :S

Most will agree to it fairly easily if you're 30 or over, have two or more kids and can be convincing that you're 100% sure you don't want more... if your GP is being weird about it I'd say just "shop around" GP's until you find one that will give you a referral :shrug:

[Vicky.]

Most will agree to it fairly easily if you're 30 or over, have two or more kids and can be convincing that you're 100% sure you don't want more... if your GP is being weird about it I'd say just "shop around" GP's until you find one that will give you a referral :shrug:

Maybe will try again next year. I am not yet thirty (only just though :( )

[user104658]

Maybe will try again next year. I am not yet thirty (only just though :( )

Ahh they seem to see 30 as some sort of "watershed" for knowing whether or not you want more kids... which is stupid, obviously. As if something magically changes overnight when you go from 29 to 30.

[kirklancaster]

It's when you cuddle from behind like spoons in a drawer, big spoon and little spoon, and then you do some nipple stuff, and then sneakily slip it in after spending like 10 minutes trying to get the angle right. :conf:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

It's when you cuddle from behind like spoons in a drawer, big spoon and little spoon, and then you do some nipple stuff, and then sneakily slip it in after spending like 10 minutes trying to get the angle right. :conf:

It's all about how the woman is positioned.Ass out,knees bent,push her head down abit then it fits like glove:laugh:

[user104658]

It's all about how the woman is positioned.Ass out,knees bent,push her head down abit then it fits like glove:laugh:

:omgno: You mean politely ask of course

[Northern Monkey]

:omgno: You mean politely ask of course

Obviously

[Marsh.]

Not sure you know what a spoon is :umm2:

:joker::joker::joker:

[Marsh.]

It's all about how the woman is positioned.Ass out,knees bent,push her head down abit then it fits like glove:laugh:

How romantic.

[kirklancaster]

It's all about how the woman is positioned.Ass out,knees bent,push her head down abit then it fits like glove:laugh:

:laugh::laugh::laugh: T.S is corrupting you Paul. :hee:

[user104658]

How romantic.

It is though, like a slippery cuddle :hee:

[Northern Monkey]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: T.S is corrupting you Paul. :hee:

Nah i'm quite experienced in these things:laugh: